Community Species Suggestions

[slim flare]

I’m not really pointing down alts because they’re chaotic

[left spear]

Huh, same archipelago as grampa

[slim flare]

Grampa

[silver steeple]

Even farther north but yeah

[slim flare]

How far North was that back then though?

[left spear]

Grampa

[silver steeple]

Only other named thing from Kanguk is a turtle

[silver steeple]

About the same

NA hasn't moved a ton iirc

[faint oak]

It’s literally a huge raptorial bird in the Mesozoic

[slim flare]

Only SA?

[faint oak]

That’s the coolest thing ever

[slim flare]

It’s a singular bone, you assume a lot

[faint oak]

Kills you with hammers

[silver steeple]

Its relatives are not

[left spear]

Kanguk at the time was sub-artic so you could easily make It boreal only to justify it's presence in-game

[faint oak]

This is peak and I will be taking no comments

[left spear]

I mean if we Accept that then gargantuavis should be in the Game too

[faint oak]

Peak

[faint oak]

But you see that bird is lame and bad

[left spear]

Ah

I see

[faint oak]

Unlike the Avisaurus which is cool and rad

Common mistake

[slim flare]

Avisaurus would be cool if we knew what it looked like

Or anything

[faint oak]

Also raptorial guargan is weird since Balaur is a raptor again

[left spear]

For the record i have no real issue with either, just seeked consistency

[silver steeple]

Again

[faint oak]

I know enough 🙏

[left spear]

Not passionate about neither either

[silver steeple]

We have enough relatives to fill in the gaps

[slim flare]

I disagree

[left spear]

I mean then why not add the relatives

How much is the size difference

[silver steeple]

Sizeable

[silver steeple]

Pretty sure the red here is Avisaurus

[left spear]

Like closer to 100% or 25%

Oh

[slim flare]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirarce

[left spear]

Well then yeah the point is kind of lost

Oh that thing is related to mirarce

[silver steeple]

Yeah

[slim flare]

How do it compare to Mirarce in size?

[faint oak]

Significantly larger

[silver steeple]

^

Avisaurus is like large eagle sized

[faint oak]

Or perhaps a hawk too

Ah

Visaurus

[left spear]

I mean isn't mirarce like falcon sized

[silver steeple]

I'm killing you and denouncing Avisaurids for that one

[slim flare]

Ok but this is allegedly wild turkey weight

[faint oak]

Worth 🙏

Big man

[left spear]

Okay but Who are the other 2

3?

[slim flare]

Prove it

[silver steeple]

The gray bird is a modern raptor of some sort

[left spear]

That is horrendously oversized

[faint oak]

There is no way that scaling is right lmfao

[silver steeple]

^

That's larger than most eagles lmao

[left spear]

Mirarce is small eagle size being very very generous

[faint oak]

Avi is consistently larger in sources that aren’t ass lol

[slim flare]

Idk, wikipedia keeps saying turkey sized

And turkeys are larger than eagles

[faint oak]

And hawks too

Ah!!

[silver steeple]

Tag Lancian Idolatry for more information!

[slim flare]

Can I get a comparison?

[faint oak]

So true!

[left spear]

This is a very large but still sensible mirarce reconstruction

[silver steeple]

Did Lancian ever finish that blog on avisaurids

[left spear]

It's like half as large as the other one lol

[silver steeple]

Or am I thinking of a twitter thread

[slim flare]

Avisaurus was a large enantiornithine, with A. darwini weighing up to 1.2 kilograms (2.6 lb) and A. archibaldi weighing up to 1.7 kilograms (3.7 lb).

[faint oak]

“Phylogenetic placement of new Hell Creek enantiornithines based on cladistic analysis.
A) A subset of the strict consensus tree focusing on taxa around the Avisauridae, and B) the full 50% majority tree. In the majority tree, the newly diagnosed Avisauridae family is comprised of six taxa, two of which are described in this publication. C) A 1.8 m tall human to scale with A. darwini (maroon), the largest known Early Cretaceous enantiornithine Pengornis (black), a medium-sized early enantiornithine, Imparavis (white), and finally, a minuscule enantiornithine, Elektorornis (smaller inset black). The extant Buteo jamaicensis (Red-tailed Hawk) is shown in grey.”

Larger than red tailed hawk

[faint oak]

Figure description of this

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figures?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0310686

[slim flare]

Which fits the mass estimates I gave

[silver steeple]

Damn you Anth

[slim flare]

So not large eagle sized

[silver steeple]

Now we can't go round and round with second hand sources

[slim flare]

Regularish hawk sized

[silver steeple]

That is larger by a good bit than the red tail lol

[faint oak]

Red tails are big up close

[slim flare]

But now how big was Mirarce?

[faint oak]

I’d shit myself if I saw a bird that big

Smaller

Clearly

[silver steeple]

Red tails are very large for hawks from what I know

[silver steeple]

I was speaking dimensionally

[slim flare]

Even then

[faint oak]

Idk scale off the ceratopsian these images are ass

Either way rule of cool dictates the biggest Cretaceous murder bird eats all the others

🙏

[silver steeple]

Going by the image above, Avisaurus would be about the size of a Ferruginous Hawk

[faint oak]

That would be Hawk 3 on this chart

Not hawk 2

[silver steeple]

Yes

Killing you

[faint oak]

Ahh!!!!!

[silver steeple]

I am releasing the super hyenas now

[left spear]

i literally posted an image with that same size 3 minutes ago

[faint oak]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-run-gif-13483342628531760477

Which reminds me

[left spear]

Weird dog

[faint oak]

Paradolichopithecusposting will continue until moral improves

Deploy more walkie monkis

Go my giant humacaque

[silver steeple]

Compared to a person

[faint oak]

Actual footage of me going to war for my munki

[slim flare]

The Mirarce description paper does use “turkey-sized”… which can’t possibly be true

[silver steeple]

Description papers overestimate all the time

[faint oak]

Velociraptor sized mira lmao

That’s almost as big as Paradolichopithecus

[silver steeple]

Maybe Carlos had a point all along.........

[faint oak]

Or maybe even 2 hawks

[left spear]

If we are talking about turkey sized birds then Sylviornis 🙏

i know it's bigger, i just wanted an excuse to mention It

[faint oak]

Trueeee

[left spear]

Sylvi is peak NC, second best NC animal

[slim flare]

Ok yeah Mirarce has a tarsometatarsus length of 48.1 mm, while A. archibaldi has a maximum length of 73.9 mm

Assuming they’re measured in the same way, which they likely are or close enough

[silver steeple]

So Mirarce is like 2/3rds the size lol

[slim flare]

Not how that works

You’d have to use square-cube law

[silver steeple]

If you're scaling linearly yeah it is

Again speaking dimensionally

Because that is what matters for birds

[slim flare]

Mass does not scale the same as surface area

[silver steeple]

I didn't say it did

I am explicitly not measuring mass

[left spear]

I mean they would Both be minis, mass is redundant

[silver steeple]

Because that doesn't make sense for a bird

[slim flare]

When you say “size,” I hear “mass”

[silver steeple]

Then you need to get your hearing checked

[slim flare]

Or be more specific

[silver steeple]

I have been

[slim flare]

Since “size” isn’t a unit of measure

[left spear]

It's a scientific discussion, confusing "size" for mass is completely valid

[slim flare]

Point is yeah it’s smaller… assuming the rest of its body is similar which is impossible to know

Do we have a skull from this family?

Ok wow

This family sucks shit

[silver steeple]

Me when looking at the majority of fossil clades

[slim flare]

Mirarce is the most complete, everything else is legs

Which is unfortunate because is if they are raptorial I would like to know what their skull was like

But it further reinforces Avisaurus as a poor-ass choice because no, we don’t really know what it looked like based on even its closest relatives.

[silver steeple]

They almost certainly had teeth like almost all other enantiornithines afaik

By that metric, Megaraptor is also a bad choice lol

[left spear]

Wikipedia says Neuquenornis has but i haven't been able to find anything on it

[hollow furnace]

all dinosaurs are bad choices, use modern animals instead since we know what they look like

[silver steeple]

True!

17 thousand more mammoth steppe animals!

[hollow furnace]

too unknown, we need more gorillas and zebras

[silver steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/truth-nuke-truth-true-soyjak-wojak-gif-14828627546768133163

[slim flare]

Yeah it kinda is, although at least you can put all the Megaraptorids together and vaguely get a complete picture.

[silver steeple]

At the end of the day, "completeness" matters much less than I think you like to believe

[slim flare]

It’s less about “completeness” and more “knowing wtf it is”

[silver steeple]

And we know a decent bit about Avisaurus

We can fill in the missing skull with stuff just outside of Avisauridae

[slim flare]

Argentinasaurus isn’t great but Titanosaurs are pretty samey so we know pretty well what it was like.

Megaraptorids can be pooled together to form a complete picture, although individually they’re all rather poor.

Avisaurus is a single bone of a family predominantly made of single-boned taxon. Although across them we know their legs pretty well, we may not even have a skull for the family and the most complete one is pretty scrappy. Not to mention if Avisaurus did something unique due to its uniquely large size.

Like it’d be cool for a WWD-like thing

Because it existed

And would probably have a cool place in an ecosystem

[hollow furnace]

hell creek microraptorine for peakay

[slim flare]

But I rather do species we actually know what they look like because we have a lot of great taxon out there

Instead of speculate what this literal singular bone was connected to

[silver steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/true-truth-nuke-super-truth-nova-truth-meme-gif-16889273424352737553

[slim flare]

Speaking of, Yuornis is cool

Was the diversity we see in Chinese bird fossil what we’d see globally by the Cretaceous?

It’s hard for me to imagine Hell Creek with dozens of species of birds of all shapes and sizes

[silver steeple]

China is just insanely good at preserving tiny shit

No reason to believe this kind of stuff wasn't happening elsewhere

[silver steeple]

There's some sort of parrot-convergent enantiornithine from HC

So you better get imagining

[slim flare]

Interesting

[hollow furnace]

hell creek actually has a pretty diverse number of birds, they're just all from hell creek so shit

[silver steeple]

Lol

[slim flare]

Yes!

[silver steeple]

A lot of flying critters at least

Sometimes birds, sometimes not quite....

[slim flare]

Makes me think of WWD during Death of a Dynasty where the narrator mentions high bird diversity and you can hear them, but don’t see anything. Leaves it to the imagination.

[slim flare]

Late Cretaceous bat

[silver steeple]

Not quite what I was getting at

[slim flare]

I assumed pterosaurs

[silver steeple]

But the stem bats were probably around just before the asteroid seeing as they pop up so quickly afterwards

[silver steeple]

Little more dinosaurian

A certain four winged affinity

[left spear]

Gliding dakoraptor

[silver steeple]

Sure why not

[slim flare]

Why

[silver steeple]

Wdym why

We've found remains lol

[slim flare]

?

[silver steeple]

It was an SVP abstract last year I believe

[slim flare]

Ah

Like a derived one?

[left spear]

Is there not even a place holder name?

[hollow furnace]

Is it like real remains? More substantial then Hesperonychus or the same or worse

[silver steeple]

Those aren't shared in abstracts

[slim flare]

https://fanon.fandom.com/wiki/North_American_Microraptor_Disaster

[silver steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/i-don't-know-idk-idk-about-that-gif-7336250873949261946

[slim flare]

Because Hesperonychus is sometimes said to be the only NA Microraptorine but probably was too basal to fly

[hollow furnace]

that's kinda based on vibes tbh

Most of those statements either predate or ignore Changyuraptor

Somewhat depends on if Hesperonychus even is a microraptorine in the first place

[neat iris]

You know what would be awesome to have in the game?

Gastornis

Think about it: we’re more than likely going to get a terror bird at some point, so why not have a non-carnivorous flightless bird to contrast with it?

[slim flare]

What was found of the HC Microraptorine?

[left spear]

Gastornis/dyatrima is quite a can of worms

[silver steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/shrek-shrek-meme-shrek-good-question-good-question-gif-7176451729184982026

[slim flare]

Damn abstract didn’t even say?

[hollow furnace]

Would be great to get in some form of another regardless, name is ultimately a bit superfluous

[silver steeple]

Most don't tbf

I also can't find it atm

[neat iris]

Speaking of birds, what do you think is the most likely terror bird to come to PK?

[slim flare]

I think K is already set in stone

[silver steeple]

Idk about set in stone

[left spear]

Honestly if we are going with Sauro just go the classic way of gastornis with Diatryma as the NA alt, probably not gonna stand the test of time but what can we do about it

[silver steeple]

But it certainly has the most history

[slim flare]

I would prefer Phorusrhacos first

[left spear]

I don't care which phorusracid comes first as long as It has a Devincencia alt tbh

[slim flare]

Titanis is pointless to have

[left spear]

True

Absolute gluppshito

[slim flare]

Now Psilopterus 👌

[silver steeple]

How so

[left spear]

It's like 7 bones

[neat iris]

I think Kelenken is probably the most likely; it seems to be the most popular among paleo enthusiasts

[left spear]

Which since they are so random they could be different species

[silver steeple]

Most phorusrachids are

[left spear]

When your only claim to Fame is location then you are kidna cooked

[hollow furnace]

the problem with that is, if Diatryma is treated as a distinct taxa, almost all Gastornis species are Diatryma species or would be distinct genera

[left spear]

Kele, phorus, Devin and Psilop all are much better remains wise

[silver steeple]

That's far from the only claim to fame lmao

Psilo ain't even in the running here

Different family to the other 3 you listed

[slim flare]

What’s the point without S. gracilis?

[left spear]

Dia based skin then, make It like with Magnapaulia

[hollow furnace]

Or just only have Diatryma, like they seem to have planned to switch from Miragaia to Dacenturus

[left spear]

I mean fair too

[slim flare]

No

Gastornis will always exist

Just like Dacentrurus

[left spear]

Unlike with Dacen mira (i go Dacen) i don't have much of a preference there

[silver steeple]

Titanis is the latest living of all phorusrachines, one of the largest, and had the widest range if the Uruguayan and Californian specimens are to be believed

[hollow furnace]

I didn't say it didn't

[left spear]

Tbh aren't Both pretty similar

?

[silver steeple]

Because one is based on the other

Its like saying 90's Brachio and Giraffatitan are similar lol

[left spear]

I mean yeah but even then, aren't they essentially the same animal

[slim flare]

So all lame stuff you don’t see when you physically compare it

[hollow furnace]

Also I haven't found the hell creek microraptorian abstract but I have found one for a Appalachian potential microraptorian

[silver steeple]

No one said we were comparing physical traits

[left spear]

Not that titans is horrible per se but It makes little sense for the game

[slim flare]

Also afaik we have later undescribed skulls from SA

[silver steeple]

Source?

[hollow furnace]

yeah, cf. Devincencia

[silver steeple]

A mandela moment in the making

[left spear]

Devin lets go, see why it's peak

I remember when i suggested Devin at first people called me crazy

[slim flare]

https://www.theextinctions.com/articles-1/the-last-terror-birds-a-review-of-phorusrhacids-and-their-plio-pleistocene-occurences

[left spear]

They later Saw the truth

[silver steeple]

Most of this is psilopterines lol

From what I can tell the only phorusrachine listed here that is potentially older than Titanis is approx the same age

Which is somewhere in the early-mid pleistocene

[slim flare]

Late Pleistocene cf. Psilopterus is the best

[silver steeple]

Too bad Psilopterus doesn't matter for this conversation

Not once in the history of ever has someone said "terror bird" and specifically wanted to include psilopterus

What they really mean is Phorusrachines

[slim flare]

✋

[silver steeple]

Realized I misspoke

[slim flare]

Late Pleistocene supremacy

[silver steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/lie-detector-gif-9388384639890532829

[left spear]

Btw anything on the potential antartic phorusracids?

[slim flare]

Probably not

[left spear]

Idk i think it's the potential Discovery i'm most intrigued by

[slim flare]

Why?

[left spear]

It's just cool idk

And if they survived into like the late eocene/early oligocene and see how they adapted

Tundra phorusracids sound fun

[slim flare]

I doubt it was tundra back then

[left spear]

If they survived into the late eocene/early oligocene probably yes

The cooling of antartica had long begun

[silver steeple]

We have antartic toxodonts

[left spear]

Maybe not tundra

But defenetly cold

[slim flare]

Idk, the cf. Psilopterus humans met is more interesting to me

[silver steeple]

So whenever those were around is probably when we would have seen phorusrachids

[left spear]

To that i just assume they did briefly

[slim flare]

Then stab-stab

[left spear]

I doubt the Psilopterus where the ones doing the stabbing frankly

[slim flare]

I know

Pterosaur list will be next(!!)

[silver steeple]

Ok so not toxodont

Litoptern and astrapotheres tho

In antartica I mean

During the Eocene

[left spear]

Late middle or early

[silver steeple]

Early eocene

[left spear]

Ah

Probably no snow phorusracids then 😔

I mean there's always the chance for a smaller species

[silver steeple]

Wouldn't have been big at that point in time

All the big ones are Miocene or later

[left spear]

What do you consider a Big phorusracid

With small phorusracid i mean Psilopterus sized

[silver steeple]

Like 1.5m+

[slim flare]

Measured to where

[silver steeple]

Head

[left spear]

So around Phorusracos itself

Seems appropiate

[silver steeple]

I remembered Phorus being larger but sure

Jesus there's a lot of penguins at this eocene Antarctic site

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Meseta_Formation

[left spear]

Isn't It like 1.6m tall

[silver steeple]

That's what I was thinking

1.6-1.7

[left spear]

Close enough

[silver steeple]

This is where the potential antarctic phorusrhacid is from btw

The description of it says large sized but idk if there's a lot of stock into that

[slim flare]

That’s not Antarctica, that’s an island smh

[silver steeple]

Googling specimen number now

[silver steeple]

Then Antarctopelta also ain't antarctic

[left spear]

I mean that's like saying Crete isn't part of Eurasia

Which like sure it's technically correct but lets be real

[silver steeple]

Well unless I've read the figure wrong, it does seem to be comparable in size to Phorusrhacos or Titanis
https://palaeo-electronica.org/content/2024/5015-eocene-cariamiformes-from-antarctica-figures

But this has all become very sci-chat oriented

[left spear]

Uhhh Kele+Devin+Phorus and Psilop as the game's terror birds

[silver steeple]

Not terror birds proper but would be cool to see a Bathornithid

[left spear]

Aren't they sadly all frag as fuck

[silver steeple]

Bathornis itself has a decent bit

And tons of species to pick from

Very nice skull

Seems like most remains are skulls, arms, and legs

And pelvis

One species lived with Hyaenodon horridus (which was planned for the game at one point)

[quick ore]

a

at one point? :(

I like Hyaenodon....

[plush nacelle]

All this terror bird talk for kelenken alt for it to ultimately not have one 🗿

[outer moth]

I find this paper to be pretty interesting tbh
And I don't get why most fans think Austro got "Nerfed" because of this tbh

[plush nacelle]

At this point best chance for second spot would have smaller species with more nimble build like andalgalornis

[outer moth]

Like, Austro just got more autonomy from just being a dromaeosaur puppet

[austere sparrow]

Anthropornis with Inkayacu alt? 🤔

[shell sonnet]

... a penguin?

really?

[feral cedar]

I’m ngl this just feels like alts for the sake of alts

[low bridge]

Hmm we should have grassland dwelling bovid like Syncerus Antiqqus and Rusingoryx tbh

[left spear]

Alts are cool 🤷🏻

[left spear]

Syncerus is nice, rusingoryx isn't bad either

[low bridge]

Rusingoryx was found on rusinga island bc he is animal which migrates like modern wildebeasts

Plain dweller

[left spear]

Oh one of the islands in lake Victoria

Cool Discovery place

[low bridge]

They faced terrible fate

Were butchered (Rusingoryxes)🫤

[low bridge]

Prehistoric Pigs of Africa were as Scary as Entelodonts

[austere sparrow]

We know Inkayacu's coloration, that's why it's there. And yes, a penguin, really 😔

[feral cedar]

Who do you think you're talking to rn

I'm Dr. Penguin

I'm not the one who's against penguins in PK

[feral cedar]

It was HIM

[shell sonnet]

The only penguin I want is Pinguinus

[left spear]

No Kairuku/Waimanu? Unfathomably unbased

Btw why do all prehistoric penguins have such unique sounding genera names

[austere sparrow]

Waimanu would be nice too

Not sure what Kairuku has going for it other than "Ark appearance" but if you'd rather have it than Anthropornis, I'm flexible

[desert flame]

Waimanu is good choise.

[silver steeple]

A lot of them are Maori

Since most of our early penguins come from New Zealand

[digital pendant]

Ye most have indigenous languages names

[desert flame]

If Hyracotherium or Eohippus were to be added, would they be added in the regular exhibit or the terrarium exhibit?
In terms of size, both are possible.

[plush nacelle]

Terrarium

Only few horse and horse-likes are barely big enough to be habitat species

[desert flame]

yes
both are small enough to fit in a terrarium.

[desert flame]

what

[hollow furnace]

bird

[austere sparrow]

Propaleotherium would be a great exhibit "mini-horse" btw

[plush nacelle]

This is my greatest agenda

[austere sparrow]

Nice fossils. Let me try to ID, tell me if I get them right... With Brackets for the ones where the english name is easily readable on the picture 😅
(Anchiornis, Mei,) Glossopterys...? (Ambopteryx, Confuciusornis,) Tsintaosaurus, (Caudipteryx (iconic), Epidexypteryx, Beibeilong, Jeholornis), Sinosauropterx (iconic), Sinosauropteryx again, Microraptor, Confuciusornis again

Do you want the fossils as ingame items? They're very pretty, would be nice to have. Or do you want the species?

...Well, most of them are really pretty (sorry, Tsintaosaurus 😭)

[slim flare]

Amended further

Mesozoic Avians and adjacent: x17
Asteriornis
Vegavis
Ichthyornis
Hesperornis
Yanornis
Patagopteryx
Changzuiornis
Avisaurus?
Longipteryx
Falcatakely?
Yuanchuavis?
Feitianius?
Confuciusornis
Jeholornis
Archaeopteryx
Anchiornis
Caihong?

[hollow flower]

Id also suggest the weird creature that is Alethoalaiornis

[slim flare]

You say that but I can’t find any info on it

[hollow flower]

The book does mention little info existing on it

Even though theres 4 mostly complete specimens

[feral cedar]

Could Istiorachis be a fun addition for Wealden animals?

Newly-named iguanodont with a sail of sorts, only it’s the opposite of Ouranosaurus

[sharp dock]

with a sail of sorts that will have a completely different shape next year

🥱

[low bridge]

Dome headed animal pack
Tylocephalonyx
Discokeryx

[shell sonnet]

Nah

[slim flare]

Yeah

[low bridge]

What u think of Ugandax??

[feral cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/love-struck-swoon-wink-hey-gif-14616424

[tough marsh]

It’s the sister taxa they would look similar

[open heron]

Can't wait for it to turn out the vertebrae are broken and it's actually just ouranosaurus again

[ancient ibex]

Just use Ourano then ttbt

[slim flare]

Nigersaurus as real Ouranosaurus frien

[sharp dock]

ugandax knucklex

[neat iris]

I feel like the game is still a bit low on Cenozoic megafauna

[hollow furnace]

no, i think we have enough

no more mammals allowed

[slim flare]

^

Only Ceratopsids from here on

[austere sparrow]

Ceratopsic Kingdom

[late swallow]

counter: Juramaia

[austere sparrow]

I thought you didn't want any more mammals! :V

[late swallow]

okay that's like the one

[late swallow]

idgaf about cenozoic

but a lil Jurassic critter? sign me tf up

[austere sparrow]

Fucked up and mean

[hollow furnace]

meatball sized

[austere sparrow]

Gonna throw rats at you until you apologize

[hollow furnace]

a perfect snack

[late swallow]

do it they're great pets

[austere sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/rat-attack-gif-12798710424551752432

Pls keep looking at this gif until you have been suitably punished

[outer moth]

Why does it look shrink wrapped

[buoyant vault]

CAN WE GET CAUDIPTERYX

[hollow furnace]

yes please

100 more jehol terrariums please

[silver steeple]

It is one of the places best for it

[hollow furnace]

it really is

I wonder how costly, both money and performance-wise, it'd be to have a bunch of effectively reskins of terrarium animals (since they'd basically just be model replacements for the same animations)

Then you could potentially have a bunch of "copy-paste" terrarium animals, like different microraptorians or small birds

[flint sable]

ture.....

it would be like

Planet Zoo with ungulates

but instead it would be

Prehistoric Kingdom with Tinysaurs

[ancient ibex]

This is such a bad take that gets repeated way too often

[shell sonnet]

that would be worse given that PZ ungulates are full fledged animals that actually do things whereas tinysaurs are looped props

[flint sable]

exactly so in theory it should be even easier!

[shell sonnet]

I thought we trying to encourage PK to be a better game

minis have their place and all that

[flint sable]

I mean

an IRL zoo, most of their animals are in the mini size range tbh

[ancient ibex]

So, more content without much effort makes the game worse?

[flint sable]

or at least a signifigant ammount

[ancient ibex]

Hoofstock are the basis of most zoos

[shell sonnet]

in some cases it can be and you know that full well

[left spear]

Reptile houses and aquariums aside a lot of zoo "exhibit" animals are still on the mini range

[shell sonnet]

Yes, and those things are not the megafauna that actually attracts people to zoos

[left spear]

Okay, lets just add megatheropods and sauropods then

[ancient ibex]

So, I can get one cake, or two cakes with the second one havi g a very similar recipe? Gimme the 2 cakes and fuck weird essentialism

[hollow furnace]

Exclusively add large carcharodontosaurids from now on

[buoyant vault]

this is the ONE THING that makes me not want giga lol

[ancient ibex]

So a zoo should have lions and tigers but a single antelope?

[buoyant vault]

we already have carch and acro

[shell sonnet]

antelope are megafauna

[left spear]

thats just petty

[ancient ibex]

Megafaunal dikdiks

[hollow furnace]

lots of zoos use the size of their collection as a claim to fame and advertisements, the bulk of which is small animals, and many popular animals, like small primates like monkeys and lemurs, red pandas, koalas, otters, parrots, etc. which are draws to zoos are terrarium animals in PK logic

[left spear]

Yeah much more people would go to a zoo for Capybaras than for wilderbeest

[shell sonnet]

By PK's logic, they'd go for the wildebeest because it's got more mass

[buoyant vault]

lowkey i need koolasuchus

[left spear]

Ah yes pk logic, the standard way to mesure if something is a good addition

[buoyant vault]

genuinely in my top 5 for most-wanted animals

[shell sonnet]

that's not want I'm saying

[hollow furnace]

selemender

[shell sonnet]

it's a piece of jaw

[buoyant vault]

its awesome though

[shell sonnet]

then use Siderops kehli

[buoyant vault]

saurophaganax is a horrifying chimeric abomination and its still planned

[left spear]

Give it a beast of lesotho alt for the funnies

[shell sonnet]

Sauro was planned before the paper came out; and the devs are probably too far into development to ditch it

[left spear]

Just change the name

[hollow furnace]

mastodontosaurus

Giant boob tooth salamander croc

[buoyant vault]

IF I LOSE KOOLA i can take mastodonsaurus

[left spear]

If we are going temnos then we need priono

[buoyant vault]

YES

I LOVE PRIONO

[left spear]

With an gilled adult skin please

other 2 dont need it but please let one have gills as adults

[shell sonnet]

I'd like to point out that Siderops is not only roughly the same size as Koolosuchus, but it's way more complete.

[hollow furnace]

Oh huh Mastodontosaurus are from the same place as Tanystropheus and Nothosaurus apparently

[hollow flower]

Mastodonsaurus is sort of everywhere if I remember correctly

[shell sonnet]

So is Notho; we find it as far China

whereas Mastodonsaurus is limited to mainly Europe

Actually Mastodonsaurus is weirder than I remember; there's suggestions it might have been almost fully aquatic.

[left spear]

Most large temnospondyls probably were

priono even more due to size and apparent salt resistance

[shell sonnet]

I just keep debating whether or not animals like Eryops and Mastodonsaurus should be made terrarium animals; they've got a bit going for that

[left spear]

i dont see why they should

they are temnospondyls no issues with ontogeny

they dont have problematic anatomy either

[austere sparrow]

I feel like it is worth reiterating that the devs do not seem to give a flying fuck over if an animal is fraggy garbage

Case in point: A. anax

...Also I am a fan of a thousand mothertrucking glupshitto minis but like. They do take time to develop lol. 🙃

[left spear]

What?!

A reasonable take?

In species Channel?

Impossible

[austere sparrow]

Time that could be used on lovely important enclosure animals, like, uh, Generic Theropod 5, or Longhorn Bison, or New Rig using chad

anyway

Planet Zoo Antelope Fever is some real funny shit but PK doesn't have anything that bad yet

...I wouldn't even complain that bad but like. It took them until literally the most recent DLC to add the Blackbuck, and they still don't have either of the Elands - but we definitely need both wildebeests fucking lol

...They don't have a Duiker either actually come to think of it

And three fucking gazelles

I guess the Springbok isn't a true gazelle maybe I don't fully remember but like. Fucking lmao

[silver steeple]

I'd say the closest we get is ceratopsids

[austere sparrow]

Lmao nope

[shell sonnet]

Only have 4 at the moment

[austere sparrow]

Ceratopsids are over-complained-about

[silver steeple]

If you don't count alt sp yeah

[austere sparrow]

Counting alt species is silly

😤

[silver steeple]

Who said I was complaining

[austere sparrow]

They do not take as many resources as a whole new species so they should not be weighed as much as a whole new species

[austere sparrow]

Who said I was talking about you

[silver steeple]

Touche

[shell sonnet]

I think it's worth mentioning that neither of the fragmentary main animals are obscure names, which helps. There's a difference between Argentino and Carchadont and say Zby or Ceratosuchops.

[austere sparrow]

True. Also applies (relatively) to Koolasuchus

[cosmic cosmos]

This is true but it was in reference to koolasuchus vs siderops(most popular temnyspondyl vs nameless bum)

[shell sonnet]

The way things turn out, any reconsturction of Koola (which is only notable for a rather minor role in WWD) is going to be based on Siderops

[austere sparrow]

True

RIP Siderops

[shell sonnet]

Being the most popular temnyspondyl is like being the most popular fourth Marx brother. It ain't saying much. And honestly, Eryops might be ahead.

[austere sparrow]

So much cope, Marsh would publically make fun of you 😔

[shell sonnet]

Prove me wrong

[flint sable]

Koola is also somewhat notable

in that it was the last Temnospondyl

[flint sable]

(excluding Lissamphibia)

[austere sparrow]

Koolasuchus also overlaps with other Australian fauna we already have ingame

Siderops... Where was Siderops from again

Also Australia but Jurassic

[slim flare]

Overlaps how

[austere sparrow]

Stacks no paleoflora and gets no benches 😔

[austere sparrow]

Foundeded in other Formationeses

Siderops main formation has it being one of two vertebrates, and the other is some undescribed Plesiosaur

Meanwhile Koolasuchus is.

From a Formation with entirely shotless glubshittos mainly.

Well damn.

[slim flare]

Because Koolasuchus wasn’t in a formation with anything in the game

Nor Australovenator

[silver steeple]

Spirits of the Ice Forest strikes again.....

[slim flare]

Which took place in Antartica

[silver steeple]

When/where is that said

[austere sparrow]

Stupid darn Australian paleontology

[silver steeple]

Huh

I straight up remember that text reading Australia

[shell sonnet]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxWBkKbAWyU&list=PLoHviZA_MIrOspYTBKBqCjgC2IkTw8h4D

[silver steeple]

I literally watched the episode like a month or two ago

[austere sparrow]

Bearensteen bears moment

[silver steeple]

Wonder if it was changed in some localizations

[shell sonnet]

If it did it would have been noted elsewhere; more likely than not, actually knowing the animals come Australian formations makes one assume Australia

[silver steeple]

That's fair

Come to think of it

Actually that's not relavant to this chat lol

[shell sonnet]

Besides when has WWD let accuracy get in the way of storytelling

[austere sparrow]

Stupid Australian Paleontologists; describe your goshdarng material 🙃

[silver steeple]

Mmmmm no

[austere sparrow]

Hah. It seems Australovenator might have been found in the Wonthaggi Formation after all.

Formation friend for Koolasuchus found no need to double check.

Damn, Ceratodus AND Neoceratodus. Heckuva party down under

[late swallow]

heh, nice

[shell sonnet]

Wow the proof is a paper written before the genera was named

[austere sparrow]

Good enough

Australian Paleontologists were all eaten by Emus we can only ask so much of them

[shell sonnet]

Note as well that that Austrolovenator is said to be from the Cenomanian time period; Wonthaggi Formation dated is millions of years earlier in Barremian

[late swallow]

i'm just rolling on cope for Australovenator or Fukuiraptor

[austere sparrow]

[late swallow]

i just think they're neat

[austere sparrow]

Epic win: Australovenator peak Survivalist genus

[shell sonnet]

And they say I'm coping

[austere sparrow]

Cretaceous Latimeria

[late swallow]

have you seen how pretty you can make them in jwe2

[austere sparrow]

[hollow furnace]

Australo hype

would be great

[late swallow]

oh i'll huff the harder than anyone else here for them

[shell sonnet]

Still think Megaraptor is the best rep for the group

[austere sparrow]

Epic-emoji posting will continue until morale improves

[late swallow]

megarpator

[austere sparrow]

Megarpator

[buoyant vault]

megarpator

[late swallow]

oo, argentina, i'd take it

[hollow furnace]

I'm even willing to tolerate another A***ralian animal for it

[austere sparrow]

We can probably have both. Australo is like. Smoll compared to mega

[late swallow]

AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE

[austere sparrow]

Can't write Australia without writing Austria

disgustahng

[shell sonnet]

Lived alongside the second best Titanosaur and this cute little thing
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a3/Unenlagia_comahuensis_.jpg/2880px-Unenlagia_comahuensis_.jpg

[austere sparrow]

We need those feral German wallabies to migrate southward so Austria is the one with kangaroos and Australia is the one with deer

[shell sonnet]

deer rabbits

[hollow furnace]

or you can release the wallabies yourself

be the change you want to see in the world

[austere sparrow]

That would mean having to go to Austria 🤢

[hollow furnace]

we all must make sacrifices in the name of progress

[buoyant vault]

all a man needs to be happy is pk koolasuchus

[late swallow]

i was trying to think of what titanosaur you were meaning

then i looked it up, and yeah, i love the name, all for it

[austere sparrow]

Baalsaurus

😤

[late swallow]

easy af Argent alt

[austere sparrow]

Love myself a mostly complete right dentary

[late swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/grinch-wrongo-gif-25114155

the one in a canadian museum

[shell sonnet]

forget the name, I like it for the hips

[late swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/moto-gif-2724064937771456737

[austere sparrow]

Uhhh is it Muyelensaurus? The mostly compete braincase

Oh damn thicc

Megasaltasaur

[late swallow]

im assuming blue is what we have

[austere sparrow]

RIP Malarguesaurus

[hollow furnace]

I'm sad it's going away

Rip futa, you were tolerable to sleep under:

[austere sparrow]

Going away?

[late swallow]

im sorry, what

you slept under it?

[hollow furnace]

yes

[late swallow]

cool?

idk if that should be cool

i grew up a few hours from FMNH so i have a history with sue

[shell sonnet]

So how did it feel to have 40 tons of lizard meat on top of you

was it good

[austere sparrow]

There's no good fossils near me but there was a dinosaur statue park within travelling distance

[hollow furnace]

it was slightly unpleasant and a bit overpriced

[shell sonnet]

there's a really bad and inappropriate pun I want to make right now, but I have restraint

[austere sparrow]

I don't

Anyway

Australia more like Fraudstralia

[flint sable]

Fraudstralia? more like Credit Card Fraud

[austere sparrow]

Australia will stay fraud until Pleistocene Australians get allowed in

[hollow furnace]

And will remain a fraud afterwards

[austere sparrow]

Diprotodon - Dromornis - Genyornis - Procoptodon - Thylacoleo - Megalania will redeem Fraudstralia, trust

[flint sable]

you forgot

the one

also Dromornis isnt from the Pleistocene

🤓

[flint sable]

the

s t r i p e y b o i

seriously though, those guys would be lie

like

all of the australia stuff id need

in terms of ceno

except Genyornis

because its very boring compared to Dromornis

id be fine without it and if we just got dromo

[austere sparrow]

Dromornis can have Meiolania friend

[flint sable]

OH TURE

[austere sparrow]

With Ninjemys alt 🤞

[flint sable]

I completely forgot about Meiolania

but thats mostly for uhhhhhh

the pacific moresoe

but still

[austere sparrow]

Yeah

[flint sable]

I also forgot Mekosuchus but same deal there

[austere sparrow]

...I guess a Diprotodon alt can be friends with Drom too

[flint sable]

Mekosuchus and Meiolania I would consider non australia oceania

even tho they were found in Australia

but are more well known from the pacific islands

being New Caledonia

[austere sparrow]

True

[flint sable]

but yeah id be totally fine if this was our entire ceno australia roster forever

Megalania, Thylacoleo, Dromornis, Diprotodon, Procoptodon, Thylacinus

specifically mainland anyway

including islands then throw in Meiolania and Mekosuchus

but thats technically closer to NZ

Hopefully we get NZ stuff

Id be fine with just Moas for NZ

hopefully alts

[silver steeple]

Isn't the largest Meiolania species from Aus

[flint sable]

ye

its unnamed atm though

just called the Wyandotte species

[silver steeple]

Oh huh

TIL

[flint sable]

I imagine if we did get Meiolania it would either be M. mackayi which is the one from New Caledonia, or M. platyceps which is from Lord Howe Island

M. platyceps is the most well known species by far and its not even close

[flint sable]

hundreds of specimens for M. platyceps, but much much less for all of the others

both of those two were in the 2 to 3 feet range

I could definitely see them doing Meiolania sp. like they did with Pssitacosaurus sp. for the Wyandotte species

since that mf was roughly six feet long

[tidal flame]

Blue bucks for recently extinct animal pack

[silver steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/squidward-daring-today-spongebob-spongebob-meme-daring-today-arent-we-gif-23808696

[tidal flame]

A more obscure species but would be interesting to see

[austere sparrow]

Do you happen to have any ideas on how to solve the Bluebuck skin problem?

In that we know what it looked like and it. Doesn't really seem to have any similar close relatives that could work as alt skins

[outer crater]

They would probably just do multiple similar skins, like with those ursus skins

[neat iris]

I’m pretty sure it’s in there

[silver steeple]

In the old version yes

We don't know what the current working version looks like

[neat iris]

There’s nothing wrong with that version tho

[silver steeple]

There is

Flyers and aquatics

[neat iris]

Except maybe the lack of a passenger pigeon

[austere sparrow]

Oh sweet I solved the Bluebuck problem
Skin 1: Slender Blue. More aggressively blue. Slender.
Skin 2: Smit and Wolf Blue. Greyish brownish, a slight bit of extra fuzz.
Skin 3 (alt species): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippotragus_gigas aka tooth and horns. Taking inspo from the surviving Roan and Sable antelopes. Wild spec.

[silver steeple]

Neat

[outer crater]

Synthetoceras

[austere sparrow]

Could you write down the english-alphabet names of your suggestions so the rest of us know what you're asking for? 😅

[left spear]

Mamenchi i think

[deep crest]

I'm just sharing it for viewing.

Could Tullimonstrum possibly appear in the game?

[silver steeple]

Only as a terrarium

[austere sparrow]

Tulli would be a pretty neat Aquatic Terrarium (Aquarium?) Animal to add if we ever get a Marine or Paleozoic expansion

Not sure if the devs would add both it and Opabinia though; and which of the two they'd go for

...Actually Opabinia feels like it'd be easier to animate so probably that one

[quick ore]

Tulli would be the smallest species in the game if added and we don't know if terrariums could house fully aquatic species

so idk

[quick ore]

Opabinia would be like

pushing the game to its limits

[austere sparrow]

I wouldn't expect fully aquatic mini exhibits right now tbh

...Oh damn

Forgor how tiny

[quick ore]

yeah

[austere sparrow]

Yeah okay Tulli probably "wins" then

...I do hope they do designated Aquariums that allow for mix-and matching kinda... 🤔

Could make that a whole expansion, really

Mini-Aquariums I mean

As opposed to the Tanks stuff like Mosa would get

That's probably only happening if crazy munmuns happen

[deep crest]

I feel that Anomalocaris would probably need a large aquarium tank like that to be kept in.

[austere sparrow]

I believe Anomalocaris is still small enough for a mini exhibit - I believe it's smaller than Tiktaalik, which is going in one

[silver steeple]

Yeah it would be fine in the larger terrarium size

[outer crater]

Anomalocaris in aquarium, devs pls see this

[shell sonnet]

Or you just play Megaquarium and download some mods

[austere sparrow]

I already played Megaquarium tho...

[flint sable]

I applaud you

you actually did it

I still dont think it would be the best idea in terms of a skin, but still though, congratulations on figuring that out

[ancient ibex]

Anomalocaris is far smaller than Tiktaalik

It was a lobster sized animal in an environment where stuff was at most shrimp sized

Hallucigenia for instance was the size of a knuckle

[shell sonnet]

And that's disqualifying?

[flint sable]

And then theres Omnidens from the Xiaoshiba Biota which was essentially a Kaiju for where and when it lived

[feral cedar]

Anomalocaris was giant for a radiodont

And yet… Aegirocassis

[austere sparrow]

Omnidens is insane ngl

[shell sonnet]

that's a very speculative reconstruction

[modern totem]

Cambrian is insane*

[flint sable]

Omnidens is insane for the cambrian

since it dwarfs pretty much every other non sessile organism

by a signifigant margin

its roughly twice the length of second place iirc?

[austere sparrow]

Oh my god lmfao

Holy Fraghetti

[flint sable]

yeah lmao

but the interesting part is that it looks basically identical to a smaller and much more complete relative except signifigantly larger

[feral cedar]

Omnidens not only sounds awesome to say but the translation goes hard

[flint sable]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pambdelurion

[feral cedar]

EVERY TOOTH 🗣

[open heron]

because of inferrence

[flint sable]

I meant the overlapping material

but also yes

[modern totem]

Omnidens looks very menacing

[feral cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/omni-man-omniman-invincible-think-mark-think-think-mark-gif-12580764465408909070

Omni-Dens 🗣

[outer moth]

Basically Yi sized
Would work for an aquarium down the line

[flint sable]

people also really really like it

[outer moth]

It's popular

Even outside of paleomedia

[flint sable]

iirc the poll that Regalius did a while back it was either second or third place amongst like

a ton of others

and hundreds of people voted

iirc Carnotaurus was first?

I cant remember

[ancient ibex]

Oh yeah, Anom would work well

[hollow furnace]

yep, it was carnotaurus, amargasaurus, anomalocaris

[ancient ibex]

But still, hoping we get smaller modules

Still annoyed at planet zoo's massive modules for most of the mini roster

A 16k liter tank can hold more than 5 axolotls ffs

[steep tulip]

Terrarium module where you can touch trilobites
Doesn't make sense and its ethically questionable, but we can take advantage they are extinct

[outer moth]

Not to mention the fact that you have to pay to use the other module

or else it's useless

[ancient ibex]

Not anymore

And at least it was added to the base game, unlike the insect feeder from JWE2 that still looks like a no-show in base game JWE3, which STILL has piscivory for every pterosaur

[austere sparrow]

Such silly nonsense, considering canon insectivore Compsognathus exists

[outer moth]

Yeah, but the fact that it took 3 fucking years since the addition of the WE doesn't make that any less of a bittersweet present

[plush nacelle]

PZ1 was crowdfunding project for PZ2

[outer moth]

Nah, that's gonna be JWE3 with how things are lookin

[flint sable]

they updated it

theres 1 free butterfly now

for the walkthrough exhibit

[plush nacelle]

I mean PZ2 is most likely in advanced developement at this point

JWE3 is making money for JWE4

[outer moth]

@flint sable 👆

3

Fucking

[flint sable]

oh sorry

[outer moth]

Years

[flint sable]

I mean

its better than not doing it at all, no?

[steep tulip]

Tapejara cut so they fixed the problem for its diet lol

[outer moth]

All for a butterfly?
Doesn't feel like it

I mean fuck, the GAP could've done those butterflies, and way earlier, too

But they made those butterflies paid

[late swallow]

the clothing store?

[ancient ibex]

If you feel the need to keep moving the goalposts to remain outraged you are only making a disservice to yourself

[outer moth]

Grassland Animal Pack

[outer moth]

You'd be mad too if a basegame feature was basically unusable for 3 years unless you bought a DLC

[ancient ibex]

No, I am an actual adult and have other things to actually be mad about

[outer moth]

True that

[ancient ibex]

I get intense over meaningless crap ngl

[outer moth]

I suppose it's really a nothingburger compared to PZ2

[ancient ibex]

But the issue got sorted out

[plush nacelle]

Erior when dealing with community full of kids

[outer moth]

Hence why I dropped interest since after the Oceania pack

Though still

[ancient ibex]

Shame, we got the swine just afterwards

[outer moth]

the barnyard pack was neat

I liked it

[ancient ibex]

And petting farm animals was great, and we are now getting sheep and goats

[outer moth]

Literally what I said

[ancient ibex]

Yeah typed slowly sorry

[plush nacelle]

Funniest thing about barnyard pack was somehow these breeds having no sense for petting zoos. Alpine goat over pygmy goat is crime lol

[flint sable]

I liked the highland cow

[ancient ibex]

Hell, I even hope for a pair of packs or so to finish the year, 6 years of support is neat

[flint sable]

all of the others were interesting picks for in terms of breeds

except the chicken ig

[ancient ibex]

(c'mon echidna, secretarybird and treeroo)

[flint sable]

that one was ok

[ancient ibex]

Bit of a shame that was the second gamefowl to make it into the game

[outer moth]

I'm lookin forward to PZ2 now, tbh
Though these years in PZ have brought me a lot of meaningful zoo game experience that I'm still pretty thankful for

[ancient ibex]

Yeah, hoping for not many cut species, as unless they go for gradual ontogeny there would be no reason for a full roster revamp, and getting aviary and aquarium support would be QUITE awesome

Shame on Blackfish tho

[outer moth]

I'm kinda hopeful cuz PC2 has that pool system that I rlly like

And that would totally fit in PZ2

[outer moth]

Blackfish?

[plush nacelle]

I expect total purge in roster since many animals are looking bad and I dont want to keep them like this

[steep tulip]

A lot of base game animals are really famous tho

[ancient ibex]

Documentary on animal abuse on specific aquariums, with a tad of grandstanding, lead to demonization of cetaceans in captivity

[steep tulip]

And the worse looking ones lol

[ancient ibex]

Retouches can do well after all

[steep tulip]

I need good salties

[plush nacelle]

I expect them to touch only the most popular ones and cut everything else.

[ancient ibex]

They also look better than most mods lol

[steep tulip]

Also better exhibit reptiles

[outer moth]

I need good underwater flora in the next game

Can't make shit realistic in PZ1

[plush nacelle]

Like gharial, which would require not only new model, but also unique animations is easily going to be cut

[ancient ibex]

Yeah, the exhibits are quite meh; need more modularity if stuff has baked in animations; you either have an issue breeding iguanas due to space, or you can't see the bugs in an enclosure the size of an actual room

[steep tulip]

No not my beloved

[ancient ibex]

a 4x4x4 meter cube is MASSIVE for most of the minis

[ancient ibex]

Or revamped

[plush nacelle]

The fact Frontier gave malayan tapir new model, but did nothing to atroctious animations and rig 🥀

[ancient ibex]

Or left as is

[outer moth]

The fact Frontier didn't do shit for any other animal besides MT despite tons of feedback

The bears are fucking spherical
N the lion is so cartoony that I don't like using it

[plush nacelle]

Imagine 2019 looking okapi alongside new shiny 2026 additions 💀

[outer moth]

EXACTLY

[left spear]

Speaking of gharials

Argochampsa would be cool

[plush nacelle]

Thoracosaurus

[outer moth]

The designs are hella inconsistent
The old shi never looks as good as the new shi

[austere sparrow]

It would be funny if Frontier dropped all the ass models so like. We were left with mostly the glupshittoier variants of many animals, except for those couple cases where they took fucking forever to add stupidly common stuff (Am. Alligator, Dromedary, Wild boar, Fallow Deer etc)

[steep tulip]

A prehistoric gharial could be cool

There's hanyusuchus and a lot of marine ones

[left spear]

I thinking Argochampsa is the best candidate because 1) it's complete, 2) it's from morroco, african rep is always fun and 3) It was most likely semi-marine akin to salties

[outer moth]

This is exceptionally prevalent in the Zoopedia
Like the new animals have hella shiny environments, meanwhile the indian elephants are just standing in the middle of nowhere with nothing special

[left spear]

Hanyu is not part of gavialidae

Would still be cool to have

[plush nacelle]

Rattlesnake with no rattle 💀

[left spear]

Tbh i think you could squeeze it into RE

[steep tulip]

Uh weird
I was pretty sure it wasn't that distantly related

At least closer to both living gharials than argochampsa

[plush nacelle]

Insane how at least half of the PZ roster has to be made from scratch. Exhibit roster as a whole needs to be revamped.

[left spear]

What what

[ancient ibex]

I mean, look at JWE3

[left spear]

It is?

So the wiki Page on Gavialidae doesn't include hanyu

[outer moth]

Yeah, inconsistent as hell

[left spear]

But Hanyu's Page says It is

Part of gavialinae in fact

[steep tulip]

Apparently argochampsa is closer to indian gharials, but hanyusuchus is also closer to them than tomistoma is
Pretty crazy

[steep tulip]

Yeah

[late swallow]

wikipedia is v inconsistent with taxonomic rankings

[steep tulip]

There's a linked paper with it

[ancient ibex]

There is also the issue of gavialidae being historically a mess

Gavialis is a VERY weird animal

[steep tulip]

Also probably the only trustworthy one considered how little research is put into their phylogeny in general

Tho still puts thoracosaurus there

[ancient ibex]

It used to be often found at the base of Crocodylia rather than as Tomistoma's closest living relative

[steep tulip]

Ehhh

Definitely not stable lol

[ancient ibex]

I mean there was a paper quite recently that combined morpho and biochem

[steep tulip]

Referring to thoraco

[ancient ibex]

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsbl.2025.0238

[steep tulip]

Pretty sure current evidence makes it more its own thing

[ancient ibex]

Thoracosaurs are similar to Deinosuchus; close to the crown and close ecologically to certain modern crocodylians

The divergence timing paper on crocodylians as a whole had Tomistoma and Gavialis splitting only 20 MYA, which is wild

Mekosuchians may also be outside of the crown

[plush nacelle]

Thoracosaurus could have cenozoic alt, right?

[steep tulip]

Crocodilians phylogeny definitely need a revision
As I said we don't get studies done on these things very often

[steep tulip]

Yes

[ancient ibex]

We do tho

Tao Pan et al. 2021 had these divergence times for instance

(node 7 is the spectacled and yacare caimans fwiw)

[austere sparrow]

JWE3 is fucking whack for re-including Arche-orni btw like. What the fuck Frontier

[ancient ibex]

Archaeornithomimus had potential if done right

[austere sparrow]

Would have had

[ancient ibex]

But nowadays the Jurassic franchise is incluiding the craptacular World designs even in Jurassic Park 1 games

And the ornithomimids suck because Greg Paul

[late swallow]

you can pry him from my cold dead hands

[austere sparrow]

What did Greg Paul do to Ornithomimids?

[shell sonnet]

lumped them all together

[late swallow]

he greg paul'd

[steep tulip]

We do but not on large scale
That's also the reason why gharial phylogeny is a mess, all the stuff inbetween are kinda put there due to using dated assessments to base off their relationships

[austere sparrow]

"Of Mice and Men" moment 😭

Look at the frolicking Arche-ornis, Artemis

[ancient ibex]

Weird gastralia restoration in Predatory Dinosaurs of the World

[austere sparrow]

Makes sense

Fucking GSP

[ancient ibex]

Too short of a torso, and that profile gets even further deformed when making Jurassic World and its grey blobs

[late swallow]

O. bullatus... isn't that supposed to be G. bullatus?

[ancient ibex]

Greg Paul nowadays spends his time going to Wikipedia to complain about his hypothesis on Tyrannosaurus species not being used as standard

[ancient ibex]

Same book that gave us Velociraptor antirrhopus

[late swallow]

its hilarious because his diagnostic criteria are vibes and copium

[ancient ibex]

Always have been

[austere sparrow]

A crappy paleontologist and a climate change skeptic walk into a bar...

God that Velociraptorified Deinonych is cursed

[steep tulip]

Steven spielberg happens to be sitting there as well and ends up making a great movie

Pretty funny actually lol

Like on his other novels his views are way more apparent

[late swallow]

those diagrams with the Anterior view tucked under the neck of the lateral view make me wanna horf

[steep tulip]

But the novel is pretty good all in itself tho, even if at times it can get way too descriptive

[late swallow]

Crichton's work?

[austere sparrow]

Crichton is the kind of guy who reacts to criticism by writing a blatant insert who is small-dicked and rapes babies

[late swallow]

yeah uh, that Dr. Wu scene is intense

[austere sparrow]

And I feel that tells you everything you really need to know about him ngl

[left spear]

Chricton just depends too much upon violence for his horror

[ancient ibex]

Just keeps giving

[ancient ibex]

Reads like Aliens

[steep tulip]

Yeah...
Well specifically his jp novel

[late swallow]

im sorry, did his ass really lump Daspleto as a subgenus of Tyranno

[austere sparrow]

I feel like that Daspletosaurus recon looks suspiciously like some of the Jurassic Park illustrations/cover arts I've seen

[late swallow]

Referring Tarbo to Tyrannosaurus is one thing, but Daspletosaurus is a whole other ballgame

[outer moth]

I see Greg Paul being hated on a lot so I wanna get a recap on all of the monkey business that he's done

[steep tulip]

Still less weird than lumping deino into velo

[late swallow]

he's hated for good reasons lmao

[steep tulip]

Amazingly

[austere sparrow]

Fucking wild that GSP just completely hallucinated that weird nose-ridge Tyrannosaurs keep getting reconstructed with

[late swallow]

cool concept, at least

[shell sonnet]

Funnily, his most lasting taxonomy change was a split

[outer moth]

Did they actually have em?

[austere sparrow]

Also am I tripping/misremembering or is the JP Logo T.rex based on that Daspletosaurus

[shell sonnet]

It's based on the third t-rex found

[austere sparrow]

Not Daspletosaurus blegh, Tarbosaurus

Ah

[austere sparrow]

Wait are you talking about the ridge or the Logo?

[late swallow]

based on the skeletal mount in the late 80s, cover artist was sitting at/near the museum

learned me that one on youtube shorts

[shell sonnet]

Logo, it comes from the main one in the American Natural History museum

[austere sparrow]

Well I mean you can see here, the area of the ridge is entirely black, with no bone beneath

So no they didn't

Or well. I guess it's a speculative feature GSP came up with

And you can clearly see by all the surrounding posts how much trust you should put into his ideas

[ancient ibex]

It just keeps giving

[late swallow]

Troodon's not a fair hit

[ancient ibex]

Incluiding Saurornithoides and Elopteryx is

[austere sparrow]

Lmao at Ingenia being Oviraptor

A mildly observant layperson could tell those two apart!

ACROCANTHOSAURUS A SYNONYM OF MEGALOSAURUS????

[ancient ibex]

Altispinax as an Acro species and invalidated as a genus (so Acro takes priority), plus weird and confusing crap

Altispinax took a while to be fully curated

Becklespinax altispinax still rears its ugly head in Jurassic crap

[austere sparrow]

Hurp de durp these two animals had mildly similar features must be related

Ready thineself for Dimetrodon (Ouranosaurus) and Bos (Camelus)

[slim flare]

You know I can understand the desire for lumping

But things like “every Centrosaurine is Centrosaurus” is… delusional?

[left spear]

Isn't lumping any animal more like 5-8 million years apart already unviable just by natural mutation?

[austere sparrow]

Meh

[slim flare]

No

[ancient ibex]

Lumping in both taxonomic and ornithomimid body shape forms

[golden canopy]

Do you know what the Kickstarter is at

[austere sparrow]

Interesting crest on that Quetz

[slim flare]

Wait isn’t this the same mf who split HC Tyrannosaurs into 6-7 different species across at least 3 genera?

[ancient ibex]

Yuuup

[austere sparrow]

...Wait is this dude seriously lumping Styracosaurus into Monoclonius????

[ancient ibex]

And Centrosaurus

[slim flare]

And probably a Pachyrhinosaurus

[ancient ibex]

Not in the theropod book, but I'm keen on that being the case on the Princeton guides