Sonic Leaks, Rumours & Speculation

[cunning echo]

wdym with earnest convos

[toxic vapor]

I have good friends who actually care for me in other circles to put effort into trying to appeal to anyone here anymore

[dawn pumice]

I haven’t been in a tc vc in such a long time

[autumn yacht]

https://tenor.com/view/sonic-sonic-the-hedgehog-bruh-shut-up-didnt-ask-gif-26173232

[modest parcel]

Ok but appealing is beside the point

It's about talking to one another

The basic premise you have to buy into is

[past matrix]

intervention time?

[modest parcel]

I want to talk to this person

As a person

[modest parcel]

If the other person is a real one then they'll talk to you about stuff from their perspective and then vice versa, with that in mind to see how both parties feel abt the stuff

There's a lot of examples where people interact with one another without interest in that sincere dialog and that's where it all falls apart

[cunning echo]

tbf

freeze baits a lot but a lot of people don't get it and think he fr 😭

[past matrix]

That’s what I had to gradually learn

[modest parcel]

That's the one thing I do get

[autumn yacht]

no but it's half serious

[modest parcel]

That's why I'm saying these things to begin with

[cunning echo]

even tho he's been talking for years already

[modest parcel]

Because I'm talking with sincerity

Well

Typing

[past matrix]

and even currently, on the occasion of further discussions, I still can’t fully differentiate it about 20% of the time. But I think I’ve clocked it more often than not in that ‘it’s my real opinion, partially satirical’ thing.

I’m saying this like I’m doing a research essay or some shit

‘I’m just a mf hungry for leaks, let me sit my ass down

[modest parcel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSoMdDu6ryI

[cunning echo]

sometimes people can be a lil mean tho

[modest parcel]

Me to Justin every time movie Sonic comes up

[past matrix]

That’s my sleeper agent activation

[modest parcel]

Part of the problem is that a lot of the convos have been started in the server with the framing of "everyone is stupid for feeling/liking insert thing here"

[autumn yacht]

it's true too

i mean uhh

[modest parcel]

Even if it is bait some people buy into it sincerely

[coarse ferry]

It honestly get to me a lot due to personal issues going on, so it felt like I have to experience the same shit here, which unfortunately..... I take it way too seriously which gets my temper going

[autumn yacht]

you don't understand sonic x (3:05:29)

[cunning echo]

I mentioned it before even tho I think no one saw it 😭

That late convos not just here just in the general community feels like everyone wants to generalize one opinion specific as in everyone wants that or is the right one

[autumn yacht]

you understand sonic 06 (9:99:99)

[past matrix]

That's very true

It feels like a climate of..

"I have the most accumulated amount of rich authentic history/aspects of what the franchise should be, and that I like. Anyone that doesn't have that information is simply ignorant and or just 'doesn't get it'."

And sometimes, maybe that ISN'T the intention.

But it feels like that a lot, more so with all this..JP vs US, this and that stuff going on.

An attitude and presentation of these things does a lot, and I think that being on a pedestal about it doesn't make a good outcome.

That's why I'm never compelled to wanting to hear out what someone like Pixel(Totally doesn't have a thing for big girls, that he's vocally had to say he isn't unconvincingly because everyone noticed it)Rush has to say.

[wide portal]

when I started seeing his name pop up in sonic discourse it was like the epitome of this image

I don’t get why these accounts that are so clearly inspired by stuff like SatAM/Archie but actively use purist talking points keep showing up

[past matrix]

Right? I've seen it more than once, and I can't understand that overlap.

Which, I guess the other thing is they just have genuine preference for the JP material/side of things, rather than the US's "baggage" currently.

[autumn yacht]

who

[past matrix]

And by baggage, I mean things like the lore team, Ian Flynn, the IDW comics, etc, etc.

Despite these all being things that SEGA of JP' has looked over and has given the thumps up along each of these collaborations.

Which doesn't mean that those people are required to like it because of that, but there's this notion that they're on like..
Two different fields, and Sega of America just gets to do whatever they want or something.

[wide portal]

I feel like a cold dose of reality is incoming for a lot of people

[past matrix]

This dude

He can make as many "nobody gets them" videos as much as he wants

You can't snuff out what YOU ARE

[past matrix]

It's def approaching

I mean shit, Evan Stanley reminded people of that just recently.

https://x.com/SpiritSonic/status/1991321833027817600?s=20

Evan Stanley (@SpiritSonic)

@joquacious Every line in this scene was rewritten following specific notes from sega of japan, hope this helps

X · Nov 20, 2025, 1:44 AM

[verbal tundra]

LOL

[forest fractal]

god forbid a man to have a body type preference

[past matrix]

It'd be less bad if he didn't DENY it

I'd respect him if he just came out and said it

But no, he's gotta put on this
"sigh, Well..I guess I gotta go ahead and do it for my followers. Here's another chubby girl to the cast yall.."

LIKE, FUCK HIM

That was harsh

[forest fractal]

damn

[strange estuary]

Huh?

Are these from his videos

[past matrix]

These pictures in particular nah, but you can catch a chubby Sally, Rouge, or Amy in his videos casually.

Correction, Sally or Rouge.

Amy ig is just for renders or somthn, whatever man.
I've said my peace.

I'm not letting a mf that can't stick his chest out on having a type, tell ME how to enjoy sonic shit.

I'll be damned.

[strange estuary]

How did we even get here...

[modest parcel]

What's going on in here 😭

[forest fractal]

JP fan slander

[past matrix]

Yeah, that's the sum of it.

[forest fractal]

well shit man

[past matrix]

And me not liking PixelRush for not being about shit.

But again, I'm done. I've said all I can say

Now..

On to the REAL important topic..

Will Frontiers 2 give me my RnB influenced tracks back?

[forest fractal]

no

[strange estuary]

Maybe

[modest parcel]

Ask me tomorrow

[wide portal]

I like seeing you happy so I’ll say yes even though I know deep down it’s no

[strange estuary]

I'm honestly curious on how Frontiers 2's OST will sound like at all

I hope I like the open zone tracks this time around

[past matrix]

Please god, don't let this be for nothing...please

[modest parcel]

No way that's not for anything other than JSR

You gotta consider the priorities...

[past matrix]

But..but

And he..HAS A SONG CALLED SPECIAL STAGE

AND, AND.
He Used the ring portal sound effect in 'Them Changes'

It's GOTTA happen, at some point PLEASE MAN

[modest parcel]

Perhaps a cameo may be in order

[rugged edge]

Are we talking abt Sonic frontiers 2

[modest parcel]

Yea

[forest fractal]

remember when the gravity falls guy visited sega and people thought he was gonna be involved in some major sonic project... 🙂

[rugged edge]

I think we’re getting a SF2 trailer at TGA

[forest fractal]

thats pretty obv at this point

[rugged edge]

or maybe a rlly low chance of a Sonic 4 trailer

[rugged edge]

True

[forest fractal]

its too early for movie 4

maybe NEXT game awards

[rugged edge]

Nah

[modest parcel]

It's funny because the Game Awards fit SEGA's schedule waaaaaaay better than E3 ever did

[rugged edge]

We’re getting a trailer mid 26 most likely

And then

TGA26 is final trailer most likely

[modest parcel]

Very end of the year, about one year off from their typical releases

It's the perfect slot for them to be dropping a teaser for mass viewing

[rugged edge]

Here is what I think the SF2 trailer is going to be like

Sonic running through a random island. The rest of the gang follows up behind them. They go on a platform looking up at a rebuilt version of giganto. Shadow teleports and looks up at them and then silver flys through the screen quickly then 2026 pops up

I think I went a little crazy tho

[modest parcel]

Maybe instead of giganto they could reference the ancient's mothership

That SAGE mentioned in the files

And the camera would pan to the stars

✨

[past matrix]

https://tenor.com/view/sad-meme-stupid-filter-gif-8194695298434751251

[rugged edge]

Yeah

I need to make a bingo board for a SF2 trailer

[forest fractal]

im just gonna hope the next open zone game looks better than frontiers, im gonna hold reservations about whether the various gameplay systems in the flow state will be improved but if its about on par with shad gens then ill be ok with that but i could go for better

[rugged edge]

Ngl

It would be great if silver was in SF2

[modest parcel]

Here's the template

[forest fractal]

i would love sega to use silver asap but its just not his time

[rugged edge]

Thanks

What should I add to it

[modest parcel]

[rugged edge]

Because idk what to add

So far

“Shadow again yay”
“Sage talking about new threats”
“Possible Silver?!”
“Rebuilt Titans”
“New villain”

[forest fractal]

REFERENCES

[cunning echo]

I dont feel like they would move the game to 2027 honestly

anything can happen ofc but ehh

I think is already time

unless they feed us with some remaster

[strange estuary]

When movie 5 happens... you'll know it

Silver will be winning in the future

[cunning echo]

it also makes me wonder how will people react to remaster nows cuz I think shadow gens left the bar a little higher with the new content

cuz if its something like colors ult

in terms of just remastered graphics

but barely or no new content at all

[strange estuary]

It's difficult to say, Generations barely had any changes to it other than being ported over

At most it just had a few QoL changes and the new Chao hunting mission

[forest fractal]

drop dash goes brrrrr

[autumn yacht]

looooool

[strange estuary]

Very small extra thing

It was nice for Classic, but I didn't find a reason to use it for Modern Sonic

[toxic vapor]

I’ve actually found more use out of Modern’s spindash versus Classic

[cunning echo]

Hot take

but drop dash works better the way it was in lw

[forest fractal]

Lost World’s movement system simply clears

[toxic vapor]

Yeah but you’re comparing like games that all don’t do that sort of mechanic well

It’s like saying the trash burger is better than the garbage burger when they’re all still bad

[cunning echo]

moveset is good yeah but that wasn't what i meant 😭

I hope parkour is back again

[cunning echo]

it does better actually

[toxic vapor]

Bro it’s just charging a boost spindash and then spamming it for just infinite speed

[cunning echo]

its not

Im talking about drop dash rn

[toxic vapor]

That’s literally lost world’s dropdash

[cunning echo]

instead of having to press the button again you the spindash doesn't stop when you land

[toxic vapor]

You’re in spindash state and you just keep jumping and spamming with no variance of movement

It’s still lame as hell

[cunning echo]

or you could just do it after stomp like frontiers hehe

but is more better

[toxic vapor]

Yeah but none of it is ideal dropdash in 3D movement

I hope Frontiers/Lost World spindash gets eradicated

[cunning echo]

in frontiers the problem with drop dash is that you have double jump so it breaks your pace but if you just stomp and spindash it works milees better

[cunning echo]

I hope not

is like the advenutre one just nerfed but with some changes here and there it can work

[toxic vapor]

I like holding L2 and watching Sonic go fast with no consequences

[cunning echo]

plus

if they take the boost out to have somehting like idk adventure or speed sim ig, spindash being like a small burst or boost would work

[toxic vapor]

I like having the acceleration based platformer have a literal run button

[toxic vapor]

Adventure sucks so hard though lmao

[cunning echo]

nah lol

[toxic vapor]

It should be rolling that’s the main ability with the spindash being the additional sub movement option

SA2’s genius idea to make it a spindash charge to get the roll state is W Sonic Team low iq moments

[cunning echo]

you can still have rolling with the same lw or frontiers spindash lol

[toxic vapor]

How the fuck would you balance that?

Frontiers spindash is literally a boost mechanic, it’s a charge boost

That’s the anti rolling acceleration based Sonic move

You see what I’m putting down and are asking for compromises that makes zero game design sense

[cunning echo]

you literally take the boost out of it

[toxic vapor]

Other than it’ll please both sides!

[toxic vapor]

Then what would be the point? Just have a charged spindash when stationary or when you decide to charge it?

[cunning echo]

but you can still leave the burst, it doesn't have to be a big burst like frontiers plus you can also make it so if you spam is just slower or give it like a 2 second thing until you can press again

[toxic vapor]

And then that puts you into roll state

[toxic vapor]

This feels like your holding on man

[cunning echo]

I mean you can still charge it for more speed

[toxic vapor]

Let go

Lowkey Frontiers 2’s possibilities end up with me winning anyways

[cunning echo]

if only you knew

[toxic vapor]

The boost is still a core mechanic than I can continue complaining about Sonic’s core fundamentals and it gives me further motivation to work on fan media that suits what I’d want out of the series

[cunning echo]

idk why you dislike it so much 😭

like is a cool thing (in its actual main games)

nowadays is just a run button but is not that deep imo

[toxic vapor]

Idk how I could work with you on multiple fan mod stages and you not understand anything I’ve said to you

It’s actually mind boggling dawg

I’m breaking up with you

[cunning echo]

I wouldnt even mind if they remove it or it works now like in unleashed for wii and ps2

[cunning echo]

Im telling you, I can understand why you dislike it but is really not like super deep 😭

[cunning echo]

cool or not, I dont think is a bad mechanic even if its "against" his fundementals or what he was made for

if it has run its age depends on who you ask, personally, I dont mind 😭

[cunning echo]

frontiers adventure heroes and CD are my fav from the franchise and they are all hella different

[sick bobcat]

I kinda want Sonic Team to try implement Dream Team's Spin Dash into thier games

[cunning echo]

you enjoy them, even if you hate the mechanic and thats fine

I said it before

everyone has its own like, vision of sonic or perfect game. At the end of the day we all like want the best for these franchise but also I think that pulling a certain mentality like this is what it really needs or that, will just lead you to not enjoy the games

like do you really want to stress because sonic team aint doing what you want?

[toxic vapor]

Lowkey I just put that disappointment into projects I care about

That’s what makes the fan scene so fun anyways lmao

[cunning echo]

if it makes you feel better, then keep doing it

[strange estuary]

Is that so

Maybe I just don't like it because it can be inconvenient

There's a few times where I accidentally used it

[cunning echo]

yeah is kinda useless but is because you also have boost

[toxic vapor]

Certain areas it’s good to just dropdash on the edge of a cliff to fling yourself

Whilst Classic, the dropdash is actively slower all the time and the most optimal is spindash jumping

[cunning echo]

For frontiers case at least I never really used it much

is cool that they kept it in mind tho

but is like the slide

is there but

[strange estuary]

It doesn't work well in Frontiers

You have to double jump and the physics are wonky

Especially in 2D

[cunning echo]

yeah thats the main thing

is why I say that the way is in lw is a lil better

in frontiers you can also just jump stomp and spindash

is way faster

[strange estuary]

I hope Frontiers 2 can at least make it feel better to use. Otherwise, I'm fine with it not being a core move

[toxic vapor]

If rolling is a core move

Than just make the dropdash right trigger in the air charge

[glossy sphinx]

it's not that deep dawg 😅😅

[fossil echo]

There's an uncomfortable side to this conversation that no one really brings up

The reason people still get the impression that "soa gets to do whatever it wants" is because while SOJ approves everything, they approve things in the mindset that this is more palatable for western viewers. So in reality, saying "but SEGA approves it all so that means that how it is" is not the full story. It's why Amy is so much more different these days in the main console games compared to how she's portrayed in jp, its why you get stuff like shadow and rouge's jp crossworlds interaction being far more trusting and acknowledging of each other than the jp version that is straight up different lines that mean the opposite

The reason like you'll see that people talk about the 2000s game despite not looking at the jp versions of that is because when they were getting translated over, the lines were mostly one to one with the jp versions. They werent making specifically western crafted versions of the characters for us. Like sure, they would spritz up the dialogue to have westernized slang and such, but the lines themselves usually come to the same meaning. You know, the thing localization is supposed to do. Just adjust lines so its more understandable for different regions

When are we gonna talk about how they're straight up just changing whole lines of dialogue into completely different sentences now?

Chris (the lore manager) insists that they're doing all they can to bridge the jp/us divide, but I just don't feel that. It feels wider than it ever was before

It feels like I'm being gaslit

[past matrix]

Well JP and US gotta figure that shit out then ig

Cause for the most part, I feel like both parties don't feel like they're actively making things worse in this cultural divide/adjustment for both audiences.

The majority of choices done aren't done by happenstance, that's for sure.

But fuck it, I guess that's where fan voices come into play like Tyson said.

[lunar trench]

i remember having a convo with dex about how it made sense that shadow was portrayed this way in blade of courage bcs that's just how jp shadow has been written ever since sa 2

and i'm gonna be fr, i just don't like it

[fossil echo]

I don't think it's done in maliciousness, no. I think it's just fear. They're trying not to have a repeat of the backlash these characters had back then. So they think making versions that are more safe for the west to consume is more optimal while they keep the characters they envisioned as is only in jp material. And it sucks

[lunar trench]

if this is what jp shadow is then i much prefer his occidental counterpart

[fossil echo]

And this is the problem making this divide creates, different versions of the characters people will become attached to causing yet another split in sonic fans

[past matrix]

Would it be wrong of me to say that's how I feel about a lot of the JP sonic counterparts.

[wise chasm]

yes

it's not, I honestly don't really care

[past matrix]

It sucks, because it feels like I'm 'missing out on the hype', and with the 2000's being the most relevant case of that translation almost being 1 to 1; I should ACTIVELY like it more.

But I just don't.

[lunar trench]

i need to check the windii translation for shadow gens

cuz this shadow didn't seem to be as antagonistic as blade of courage sgadow

tho tbf this could be japan having to make a consistent translation

[fossil echo]

And that's fine, it's just in a different timeline where they didn't start doing this, you probably wouldn't have gotten into the series much. @past matrix

[lunar trench]

so i wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't end up being the samer

[fossil echo]

But there's a question to be asked is if this is worth doing just for getting new fans if they're gonna be split back and forth between inconsistent media that won't always have this new characterization they like

While people who've liked the characters for being what they are from the start get pushed out for daring to want it back

I think there is a timeline where they could be still reaching the same level of success with the characterizations of characters they actually intend to have. The broader general populace wont give a fuck, they only care if the game isn't a broken mess like past sonic games have been memed on for being

The core fanbase could've just been overall more united with consistent characterization because everyone's there for what they want

instead of these fights over erm archie sonic was better, satam sonic was better, err i prefer early idw sonic and er only movie sonic for me while everyone fights for dominance and control of their favorite sonic (i say sonic, but i mean like characterization of all the characters)

When the reality is that soj does have a vision for their characters that been pretty much consistent over there and was briefly the same for the most part with the west until the recent decade where they basically gave up on their ideas and thought the west should take it over since its more popular over there

So again "sega approved it though" has to be taken with a lot of heavy asterisks. They approved it, but mostly because they dont trust their visions not being controversial for the west to consume. So you get approved westernized versions that are safe and palatable

Team Dark is a great example for anything that isn't like straight up just characterization on a single character. A lot of people on the eng side can not handle the idea of them NOT being like an explicit family oriented team rather than team that just happens to come together to do things occasional and they work

So western changes is just, making them overall more friendly to each other. Because thats how the west views them

Fuck man, I don't like having to make distinction between the west and jp, I'm not a jp purist but how else am I suppose to point out the divide here

It doesn't just boil down to just "thing, japan" (even though there are definitely fans like that), its that theres a genuine issue happening here

[wise chasm]

ngl, if people were actually good at providing proper examples, I would care about it a bit more

But whenever I do see an example, it either reads close to same to me or not different enough for me to care

[fossil echo]

Well thats the nature of sonic twit, 0 good example, 100% snark and foul mouthing

never the argument, always the ragebait

[lunar trench]

yeah, cuz i'm gonna be honest, i was surprised to learn that shadow was way more antagonistic towards pretty much everyone in jpn, and has been this way since sa2

tbf this is also on me, but tbh, i never really was interested in checking it out bcs of how antagonistic jp fans (on twitter, which ius where i have seen most of them) are towards pretty much everyone who doesn't agree with them (and i'm sure that's prolly a twitter thing right, they cannot all be like that)

[wise chasm]

I don't go deep into the trenches because I know it's gonna be different between localizations and even just between 'eras' and I don't find any interest in entrenching myself into what kind of representation is "better" or not

Unless it's outright egregious, which, and I'm gonna be completely honest here, I don't see it here

[fossil echo]

I feel like when you're growing up, consuming a mix of all the different kinds of material without being able to perceive the difference warps a lot of perception. I think for a lot of younger fans, they probably consumed the games and archie and the cartoons like they were all just one universe somehow, some people really cant tell differences and contradictions especially at a young age so it all blurs together. So when you see stuff like archie shadow and other fan works, they'd probably think they were just natural progression of the character ya know. like he eventually opens up or something. so from that perspective, it looks jarring when you get to a game or piece of media that shatters that idea completely

[wise chasm]

except for Amy maybe, but that's a different topic

[fossil echo]

For me it nots about what's "better". It's that there was a default at one point. This was never at one point about "oh I like jp more" because it really was just the same sonic all around. It was just sonic as far as the games are concerned for a while. There were ideas for these characters that soj had but all of these characters got slammed by the west so they got locked up for a decade in favor of promoting only sonic and making things more light hearted like a Saturday morning cartoon, no more eldritch gods and such

I think village has mentioned it before, but like it goes beyond sonic, people were just genuinely more xenophobic regarding japanese media during the 2000s as well.

So I do get the current response of trying to evade that by making versions of the characters that won't be considered controversial by the west, it's just that theyre doing it in an era where people are more friendly to their ideas now (some people to an unhealthy degree)

I don't like everything they did with all the characters from their side, but I would rather just admit I don't like a character than seek a completely different version suited to my tastes

[wise chasm]

I don't know if I exactly apply this to the 2020s, at least not to the extent 2010s were

then it was straight up dire, nowadays it's getting better in my view (mostly)

[fossil echo]

I think it does especially if you saw that leaked document floating around about how they want to be edgy but safe. Right now they're more successful than ever since the 90s, they don't want to do anything that could potentially ruin that, so these are the safeguards

[wise chasm]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

fair enough

[fossil echo]

Cushion everything to maintain the current success, don't do anything deemed unsafe that could ruin the momentum they have and yeah that applies to how they portray the characters in the west too because besides the broken gameplay, there were so many people that hated sonic's shitty friends. Fans are begging for them to reverse that so they say okay we'll try this again, but instead we'll bring back these characters in safer way that they don't get slammed. And having Ian Flynn on board, an american who understands american sensibilities probably just looked like a golden opportunity for them

I wish they would have more confidence in themselves to allow the original versions of these characters back completely instead of the watered down half-states. But I don't think we're going to see that level of confidence until we see how Frontiers 2 does

If Frontiers 2 gets mixed reception as well, it might be joever for anyone that wants the series to go beyond the safe bubble its in rn

[sick bobcat]

Shadow Gens feels like the most 2000's Sonic game in characterization in the 2020's
helps that the ENG and JP scripts are near 1:1 this time

[fossil echo]

Yeah and that was great, most people enjoyed that

I dunno what they were cooking with sonic's side though

Like its all the more bizarre for that

part of me wants to say the only reason shad gens got this treatment is cause its shadow and as far as we know as its been proven over and over, sega handles him with the most care and intervenes with him the most

They can't screw up his origin

[sick bobcat]

Sonic's side was..odd
what made Sonic Team decided to alter the script

it was a harmless story all things considered

[fossil echo]

iirc, the jp version wasnt changed

just rerecorded

[autumn yacht]

me blaming sega of america for generations rewrite

[fossil echo]

but then again, that doesnt really mean much when most of the changes in the eng script still technically mean the same thing as og for the most part

its just

really reference heavy now

[fossil echo]

I mean, they are in charge of things on the en side. I dunno what the joke is here

[strange estuary]

They were planning to reanimate some more stuff, weren't they?

[fossil echo]

yeah they were, but even then i dont think those wouldve justified the new lines we got since again

theyre mostly weird references

only thing i can think of mattering was the classic sonic and knuckles interaction

[sick bobcat]

went from fat shaming to eating an island

[fossil echo]

i think thats still fat shaming 😭

[sick bobcat]

the rewrite was apparently unintentinal, they were going to change Classic Sonic's animation for it

[fossil echo]

yeah thats what i mean

without the animation, it just sounds like bro ate the island

but again, thats like the only thing i think that i feel mattered in terms of context

everything else still pretty much follows the old plot beats but with much more unnatural dialogue

changes for the sake of change

[sick bobcat]

those who didn't like the OG Gens script....I guess you won

[autumn yacht]

the rewrite is inherantly a bad idea

"my sonic rewrite project" being an actual official thing is a heck no

i actually do doubt this was flynn's idea though i'm sure he was actually thrilled about it

[fossil echo]

So in saying this...

When's the real elephant in the room gonna be addressed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YXxaFZ94Zw

When do the exe kids get their time to shine

I may not understand anything about this sub fandom at all, but they are super passionate about it

Crazy they got Johnny on this. Though imo the lyrics arent the greatest

but I see clips and stuff of what they do over there, its cool. I think its really interesting that there's another split off of the sonic fandom that wasnt necessarily created by anything official from sega

And they thrive

[untold kayak]

Given he is a free Lancer

I doubt he can Say if a project should be rewritten or not

And more so he is hired to do one

Obviously, as a Sonic fan himself, he was excited to bring Generations to have a bigger cohesion with the larger Sonic franchise

Like for example, in the very classic Sonic scene of the Island

In og gens Knuckles seemed very happy that Sky Sanctuary is back

Flynn changed it with the intention of showing that, while the Sanctuary is fine, Angel Island would not necessary be in the same status

(hence the question about the island)

Unfortunately, the animation on Classic Sonic was not changed which is where the disconnect happened although the implication that Classic Sonic ate the island its funny

Also, given that the franchise has revisited Green Hill and Chemical Plant more than once since OG gens Even in the Classic timeline

It didn't make sense to have the 'Sonic and Tails don't remember these places' plotline anymore

It worked given the meta context of og gens

But with Mania, Superstars coming in, that aspect no longer had place (it never had given some stuff like sa1 and the advance games but you know)

[toxic vapor]

50/50 for me because while I don’t 100% fuck with early IDW Shadow

Stuff like Shadow 05 or even that recent comic, I kind of like shadow being a lil bit of a dickhead

Shadow Gens story was great though but I kind of like Shadow being a new character in a way

[untold kayak]

I don't think it was change for the sake of change

I think it was change that didn't went all the way through with it

on SoA/SoJ's side

[toxic vapor]

@untold kayak do you remember when I used to say I wish Shadow stayed dead in SA2?

[untold kayak]

Yeppers

[toxic vapor]

Like a couple of years ago that was kind of my main opinion

That actually changed the moment that I was talking to people, and I watched the JP story of Shadow 05 etc

And I started liking Shadow because of his more mean, different Japanese interpetation oddly

Cause him being a different character from his SA2 counterpart feels like the character could fit with the established character roles, and him being that just made a lot of sense

Still haunted by his past, but generally not the same character as he was. Almost like he slowly regained memories of his past, but he's still a different person from that and he has to live with those dynamics.

He remembers these people and experiences, he feels something for it, but he has his own goals & still likes doing whatever he wants to do with force generally.

[strange estuary]

You would've like when we discussed this some hours ago in #sonic-lobby

[untold kayak]

Makes sense

[untold kayak]

From what Ian has discussed in the Bumblekast

I assume it was to update the game with the current parameters of the franchise

Like, as discussed previously, some of the stuff in OG gens was outdated

or non-representative of how the franchise currently stands

so they wished to iron those aspects better

[sick bobcat]

that makes sense

[dusty osprey]

I think fans are ok with shadoe being a bit of an ass. Thats his charm

Or at least, i hope they are.

I think the idw issues were more the context in which it manifested ya know?

Though recently people were upset he said he didnt sonic, so maybe some folks dont like him being one i dunno

[dusty osprey]

This is what confuses me the most

What changes did that half make that was in line with anything

Did i miss one?

[untold kayak]

I mean, I said as an example that Sonic and Tails remember South Island and Westside Island more vividly

compared to OG gens

[dusty osprey]

I guess, i suppose im asking was that even needed?

I dunno maybe that was a big thing, people had issue with

[untold kayak]

I guess for consistency sake, yeah.

A lot of things of og gens would not necessarily make sense with the current scope of the franchise

It's less about 'people have issue with them' in some cases

and more so that 'these things no longer represent the current thought process of the brand' as they are at least

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S5iIjVq66o&t=3252s

And as such, Ian says they intended to edit the dialogue of Shadow in OG gens when Sonic faces him but it seems that it didn't make the cut

[sick bobcat]

alot of people assumed Sonic and Tails wouldn't remember locations they've visited caused they only ran through them once
but, when you consider the handheld games...that's technically not tree

[untold kayak]

I mean, even with that, Mania, Forces and Superstars exist so that no longer makes it viable to keep

[sick bobcat]

yeah

[toxic vapor]

For me with IDW Shadow, the writing feels like the writers wanted to write Shadow another way, and when they're forced to write Shadow another way, it just doesn't work?

Like you can feel the forcedness with his delivery lol

[dusty osprey]

Maybe they didnt have time shrugs

[untold kayak]

Based on the 'Classic Sonic ate Angel Island' thing, yeah it seems they didn't have time

or the JP dub mainly being unchanged

for whatever reason

[dusty osprey]

Thats the best part tbh

That means i can powerscale classic to kirby

[sick bobcat]

On one hand, I like some of the script changes for Gens 2024, on the other hand, it sets a bad precedent. It means Sonic Team are willing to rewrite history if the old stuff is deemed outdated in their minds.

[dusty osprey]

I agree. Tbh i think many detractors agree. From my perspective i think the issue wasnt that "way" wasnt specifically shadow's character rather the role they (primarily ian at the time) wanted him to play and how that would effect his character vs who he was.

I could go on and on, and have in other places but succinctly. Idw staff wanted shadow to be a unreasonably angry actor who needed to learn the value of jolly cooperation and friendship.

Issue is, shadow traditionally (when not brain manipulated) is a reasonably angry actor and that reasonsble anger is the appeal. That he has a perspective you can understand, a point. So he was forced to play a role he doesnt play because the creative really wanted him to be that. Because they were getting used to writing him closer to canon and didnt care enough or did have enough to remove him from these stories.

Hence why he rarely shows up now. A reasonably angry actor whos immensely powerful, and very capable makes writing around that difficult if the story isnt about him.

But im rambling

To connect this to actual speculation though, i do think the future for shadow will be filled with new enemies that make that writing task, a bit easier

[sick bobcat]

we just need to get into IDW Shadow's headspace more

[still epoch]

We do, if only we had a comic about it

That totally wouldnt be screwed by segas own restrictions and incompetence

[toxic vapor]

Lowkey just get Toyota to guest write Shadow's dialogue LOL

[untold kayak]

Eh... personally I think Toyoda can also be hit and miss with Shadow

his sonic channel story is cool

Episode Shadow in forces

not so much

This was funny when we discussed some of the Sonic channel stories with Plug though

[toxic vapor]

I actually really like Episode Shadow in Forces' story

It's simple and I like Shadow in it LOL

[untold kayak]

Hm I think in a vacuum is alright

but as a prologue to forces

I think it is where it begins to fall apart

in significant ways

[dusty osprey]

I dont think shadows the problem in forces tbh.

Its you know
The jackal

[wise chasm]

https://tenor.com/view/sonic-sonic-forces-infinite-infinite-the-jackal-i-am-not-weak-gif-23975743

[dusty osprey]

If surge get into sonic racing and not him, inma laugh my ass off

[toxic vapor]

I'm not peak...

[untold kayak]

It's a problem of both

or more specifically

creating a relationship that the game doesn't really support

It's like if forces and episode shadow were created without considering the existance of the other

beyond the very beginning

[dusty osprey]

This, let us see his perspective. And maybe loosen up his restrictions on speech. ( and maybe be a bit more forward about the roles you want him to occupy in stories so ge can be used more effectively)

[dusty osprey]

Thats the jackals problem imo. Shadow ( the character) is fine. The jackal has poorly constructed narratives built around him to make the audience think hes cool without it being earned. But ultimately it makes him look lame in a way that wasnt intended.

You are right it does present a relationship that doesnt exist. That aint shadows fault, he played his role. Thats infinite ( or rather the writers) failing to create something like that for the main game. Shadow was used as a means to push infinite.

Its not shadows fault they didnt root for him

Infinite was not burird by shadow, or that episode. He just wasnt a top of the card player to begin with

[untold kayak]

The problem is that the existance of Episode Shadow makes some aspects of Shadow become OOC by association.

There is no real motive for Shadow to be M.I.A. for six months or to not inform Rouge about what he witnessed with the illusions once he fought Infinite the first time (which also affects Rouge cause she was the one who knew Shadow was with her still but didn't inform the resistance about the appearance of the fake Shadow that attacked Sonic)

With Forces on his own, you could assume Infinite did something the enough strong to keep Shadow on check and that Rouge was not around to know such data during the timeskip but now with episode Shadow?

Whelp

And it isn't above them to inform Sonic & co about stuff. With Cosmo in X, they went to tell them about their discoveries of the fake Chaos Emeralds and that Cosmo is, subconsciously, a spy of Dark Oak.

Shadow didn't answer to Cosmo but because he was being emphathic to her, saying that its better for her to not know which yeah, it sucks that literally everything she knows goes to Dark Oak. But Rouge did tell all of this to Knuckles and then the others got the feedback

Even if they could not defeat Infinite, they could go and save Sonic after he was beaten. Which is something the very game does: Shadow assists Sonic with the fake copy after Sunset Heights

Literally episode Shadow's execution trivializes the entire existance of Forces as a whole

[sick bobcat]

I speculate Episode Shadow was done after Forces script was completed
or they were worked on at the sane time but suffered from miscommunication between the writers

[untold kayak]

I lean towards the latter

[dusty osprey]

Oh 100%

I think episode shadow was after because thats how dlc campaigns like this are made

They start development after the games done.

Im almost certain this was made with knowledge of how forces was gonna release, its a bandaid

[sick bobcat]

apparently, Shadow did not make in time to save Sonic from getting ganged up on by Infinite

😭

[dusty osprey]

If they were developed at the same time, that would be highly unusual

[rocky leaf]

didn't the six months bit only exist in the english script

[dusty osprey]

I mean all those things are fair points, but alot of those issues exist without episode shadow being a thing. The only way to fix shadow within the narrative we have would be to remove him entirely. Its clear the idea was to trick the audience into thinking he did a heel turn but there was not enough thought put into the narrative for that to make sense or matter. And by the time they started developing the dlc its clear they werent gonna have golden get got by infinite.

Im not saying you are wrong about these things being bad. I just think the reason why they are bad is the story contorts itself to make infinite look cool rather than contextualize its not jackal participants in a way thats satisfying or makes sense.

Because that oocness is there for alot of characters. But it exists to facilitate the internal mythology of infinite.

[dusty osprey]

Infinite is a character wrestler who refuses to sell. When ironically he would be a better wrestler if he sold

[sick bobcat]

I don't think removing Shadow would fix anything, we'll still ask about his whereabouts

[dusty osprey]

You can just make a story about that later i feel

Maybe he was dimensionally away. Maybe x gens took place then. You could do quite a few things. But theres been enough "big event" stories that happened that have bs-ed reasons for a character to be mia.

Its better than no reason, at least in this instance

[untold kayak]

I think all you need

is just change when Shadow escaped Infinite's trap

In episode shadow, Shadow is trapped within an illusion by Infinite

just say he was trapped for those 6 months

and the first thing he hears is that Sonic is trying to find him

that's all

You fix Rouge with that as well as she can only say Shadow went M.I.A. during her mission with him

then suddenly the fake Shadow is with infinite

[modest parcel]

Mmmm

Remember what people were saying about Shadow in Generations before shadow gens happened

https://tenor.com/view/asgore-run-over-triki-troy-deltarune-gif-17995477417765303444

…. Sonic X Shadow Forces…. (He gets another campaign addition)

[untold kayak]

The greed spoken in the bible

[still epoch]

Hes already playable

[untold kayak]

It would be better Silver tbh

[modest parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/mistwol-cat-his-greed-will-consume-him-eating-silly-gif-14271929065765266047

[untold kayak]

a future that doesn't have a proper registered history would make for a interesting plot

[still epoch]

Shadow is a greedy and a bitch

[modest parcel]

More potential shadow and infinite content tho

[still epoch]

Ha

You wish

[untold kayak]

[modest parcel]

[modest parcel]

I went back and checked and nope Rouge sends Shadow to meet up with Sonic first thing, the MIA angle is complete bullshit

My fault Generations

I won't ever compare you with garbage like that again

[pulsar horizon]

https://vxtwitter.com/ockomet2/status/1994107017238335528?s=46&t=NzxXkQvD_eB6G-8-XvjXcQ

Ocko🇵🇷🇵🇸 (@Ockomet2)

When you know Tangle and Whisper will be in Frontiers 2 but you can’t prove it

▶ Play video

vxTwitter / fixvx · Nov 27, 2025, 6:12 PM

[sick bobcat]

it wouldn't be better for me personally. For what I feel is an Avengers Infinity War/Endgame level story about War, I want everyone to participate in the plot, even Shadow.

[strange estuary]

Silver is my goat for actually holding his ground against Infinite

[untold kayak]

I'd wish the fight framed this better but yea

It's mainly a choreography issue in this case

[sick bobcat]

I remember rumors of Silver playable during the Forces marketing era, wish that was a reality

[strange estuary]

I wonder how you could handle Silver with the boost formula

[modest parcel]

I'd imagine something similar to the doom spears but with the ability to grab objects instead

Which would give you access to defensive, offensive, or movement moves

[dusty osprey]

There are plenty of events where certain heavy hitters are mia for various reasons. Also infinite shouldnt have been that level of threat and kind of wasnt. The story told us he was, his actions left alot to be desired untill the end

Infinite is not a top card guy

Hes upper mid at best, and thats where he should work

[prime hearth]

Infinite is so funny as a bad guy he’s nearly a parody of what he’s trying to be

gets kicked in the face once and immediately swears to talk like sephiroth from then onwards

[dusty osprey]

He should honestly be that

A guy who aspires to be a top card guy feels it in his bones but does not have it in him to be that guy. And if he ever does get there, he shouldn't know how to handle it

[prime hearth]

that’s the thing, he’s the one guy who believes in him and doesn’t doubt his abilities for a minute (despite everyone around him knowing he can get taken out by a thwomp lmao)

he’s his own hype guy

first recorded example of the power of believing in yourself (derogatory)

[modest parcel]

He had a whole team following him based on being "the ultimate" mercenary; he was talking like sephiroth well before

That's the whole reason he had the "IM NOT WEAK" breakdown

He's like that guy living below my apartment

[cunning echo]

Maybe?

I can see tangle

Idk about whisper

[toxic vapor]

Chat how are yall gonna execute me if shit doesn't happen at the Game Awards

[rocky leaf]

tangle without whisper

[modest parcel]

[dusty osprey]

Oh theres plenty. Its why i like edward nigma.

If you do it with a lower card its funny

If you do it with an upper card guy its tragic. Your loki's and such.

But a mid card guy, that's the fun zone. Thats where you get your pathetic sadsacks. People who if they locked in could maybe break through. But are so into themselves that they are simultaneously their own advocate and biggest hindrance

[dusty osprey]

Uh...

Ive questions

[cunning echo]

Why would we execute you

[modest parcel]

I do too

[silent haven]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-squarepants-to-do-list-long-list-gif-5580267

[wide portal]

I think it’s only poetic

We’re sending you to the North Pole

[modest parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/freezing-freezing-cold-frozen-frozen-solid-winter-gif-1624032590589197037

Freezyreef on Dec 11 when no Sonic

[dusty osprey]

No execution
Make them play ride to hell retribution on stream

[lunar trench]

[silent haven]

i've seen the sentiment of tangle being more likely to get into stuff than whisper for a while now and i genuinely don't get where it's come from

i know it's not the figure because i saw it before then so is it just because she got into speed sim a few months earlier or something?? bc i'm pretty sure they've been paired up for everything else

[cunning echo]

Whaa

But why is it a crazy thing tangle alone 😭

[lunar trench]

[cunning echo]

https://tenor.com/view/cynthia-erivo-the-concept-itching-brain-the-concept-of-cynthia-gif-17231845183079517172

[modest parcel]

Only one vote for no rolling

If there isn't any they deserve a badge of Nostradamus

[still epoch]

Who said no

[modest parcel]

'

[pulsar horizon]

I don’t get to vote but I say yes

[toxic vapor]

@cunning echo killing myself

[toxic vapor]

typical

[modest parcel]

Everyone's been typical for years now very few want to mix it up

[modest parcel]

Why not talk about how item boxes should become a staple of gameplay again

[verbal tundra]

Not me tho

I switch it up every month

[toxic vapor]

bro i was about to re-enter plat and then i queued with my bummy ahh friends (love them tho LMAO)

now im gold 2

[cunning echo]

rip

I was gold 1

😭

but I been losing a lot

[toxic vapor]

lowkey im better than you

[cunning echo]

is fine, I dont play as serious as before

[prime hearth]

honestly the pair this argument makes more sense for is Surge/Kit

[cunning echo]

just to lose time

mostly

[prime hearth]

Surge gets in stuff while Kit sits it out at home

none can compete with the power of mean girls

[fossil echo]

Its literally just

Tangle was the first main idw character

Like when they add idw into anything

Its just principle that they have her first

I dont think they've ever had whisper show up before her. Its always either she shows up with Tangle or some time after

[prime hearth]

trying to think of a time they got added individually to something tbh

Speed battle they dropped at the same time iirc?

[fossil echo]

Yeah

[modest parcel]

And they were DLC mates

[fossil echo]

Tangle was first in roblox

And blitz

And I guess for the figures

[untold kayak]

Mhm

[prime hearth]

ahh right yeah figured speed sim would do something wacky

jakks I’d love if they just

made her actually available over here 😭

[fossil echo]

We know whisper's figure is done it's just not out in stores yet

[prime hearth]

instead they brought out metal virus sonc first and it’s shelfwarming a bunch here rip

[fossil echo]

Oh and I guess there's her getting references first too

Like in frontiers

[prime hearth]

cool figure for five waves in but why start with That

[silent haven]

pick one up for me they're out of stock for delivery 🥺

[fossil echo]

Or tailstube

Like either the first or second had her cameo in like a mock twitter post with her speed battle render

[toxic vapor]

Ass fucking game holy

[strange estuary]

Why did I vote yes to this

[fossil echo]

Yeah I dont think we've ever seen whisper first in anything

[untold kayak]

Yeah makes sense. Whisper debutted a bit later

[modest parcel]

Well this was my reasoning underneath the poll

[untold kayak]

Tangle has a bit of priority over Whisper

[toxic vapor]

It'd hate if rolling was put on B versus RT ngl

[modest parcel]

If Frontiers features rolling but the follow up game didn't that'd be so odd

[fossil echo]

If main cast idw characters have priority by order then it's like Tangle > Whisper > Surge > Kit > Lanolin

Kit has still yet to get anything tho

Er

Well he has the sdcc key chain

That's something

Ig

[untold kayak]

Invert Kit and Lanolin

Lanolin was first spotted in Blitz

lol

That's more than what we can say of Kit jsjs

[fossil echo]

The blitz model was removed though, she's not officially implemented yet

[untold kayak]

true

[fossil echo]

Tangle still got officialized first in blitz despite not being in any initial datamines

[silent haven]

that one meme with the skeleton drowning underwater

[fossil echo]

Starline I would say had priority of being part of stuff before surge but then

Big oof

[silent haven]

i think this plush from 2 years ago is the only sign they ever considered making merch for him so even kit technically mogs him 😭

[fossil echo]

Well actually technically Lanolin was introduced before tangle

But she wasn't totally officialized as a main character til urban warfare

[wide portal]

Kit doesn’t have any merch yet so he’s not that lucky

[fossil echo]

He has a comic con exclusive key chain

It cost money

[wide portal]

oh okay

[fossil echo]

It counts!!!

[wide portal]

Lanolin doesn’t have any kind of merch yet does she

[fossil echo]

Nop

[pulsar horizon]

Nor does Starline… I still want the plush that leaked

[wide portal]

This reminds me

do you think Hardlight could be working on like

a Dream Team 2

[modest parcel]

That'd be like

[wide portal]

not a exact sequel per say but like a follow up

[modest parcel]

A dream scenario for IDW chars

[wide portal]

Another original story based Arcade exclusive platformer

[modest parcel]

We know hardlight loves leaning into directions the fan scene has wanted for a while as well, so Tangle would probably be fully realized as a grapple-hook-esque character imo

What with them jumping at the chance for skate-park-esque designs in Dream Team

[toxic vapor]

Lowkey would want Hardlight to make a console game but they are the mobile team

[silent haven]

i assume since it kept getting updates it probably did well? so maybe

at least more likely than sonic dash 4 or whatever i guess

[prime hearth]

at a guess if they're doing anything dream team related it'd be a port of it to other consoles for whenever the apple exclusivity breaks over a new entry

[wide portal]

I’ve said this for a while now but like the mobile games are essentially the modern equivalent to the series’ handheld games

[prime hearth]

that being said? they're prolly in the speed battle mines rip

[fossil echo]

As much as I'd i like to see this, I dont think idw is getting that much priority yet. I think if we see more characters in Dream Team or a sequel, we'll see other game characters first like silver, blaze, chaotix, etc

Maybe even the rogues

Considering they went back to add jet to the mobile racing game of tsr

[toxic vapor]

I hope IDW doesn't become a priority in any capacity

Keep them as comic exclusive characters & for side games

I don't want them interfering with the already large cast of characters

[silent haven]

I do.

[fossil echo]

I do.

[wide portal]

You may kiss the bride

[toxic vapor]

They aren't cool enough I'm sorry

[fossil echo]

https://tenor.com/view/sonic-sonic-the-hedgehog-tails-knuckles-freaky-gif-12830799583270855342

[toxic vapor]

They don't have mainline appeal and never will

[prime hearth]

bet if an IDW character rolled you'd be all over that shit

[toxic vapor]

I'd only like them if they get a redesign to fit more with the main cast

[fossil echo]

Tangle Spiderman physic momentum kino

[wide portal]

I’m not even gonna dissect this one I’m already in a bad mood today lowkey

I’m gonna focus on being jolly

ho ho ho

[prime hearth]

https://tenor.com/view/tangle-the-lemur-sonic-sonic-idw-sonic-the-hedgehog-lemur-gif-26013168

[silent haven]

are we calling charmy the bee cool now

[modest parcel]

He's a kino classic character of course he's exempt

[toxic vapor]

Maybe if they put out a $20 Tangle game I'd be interested

[modest parcel]

Dumb bee gets senior benefits

[toxic vapor]

Charmy the Bee is exempt because he's a kino classic character

[modest parcel]

I used it first the effect is dilluted now

[toxic vapor]

He's a simple and neat character design with a unique body shape that doesn't look like a Sonic Forces OC

Aka most of the IDW cast

🙂

[fossil echo]

https://tenor.com/view/sukuna-jujutsu-kaisen-itadori-yuji-smile-evil-gif-19649047

[prime hearth]

pension-age charmy mourning the loss of everyone else in the cast

[modest parcel]

We can see how they got priority as the first side additions of SEGA's big multiplayer Sonic games though

Oop there goes my downstairs neighbor again

[cunning echo]

I been thinking about it a lot ever since they said it's stories are canon honestly

But uhh

I feel like is gonna get canned 😭

but sega will be able to use these characters at least

compared to archie

I dont feel like they will use the stories to its favor for the games

but hey at least the characters are theirs 🔥

so as long as they push them more in games

[fossil echo]

I feel like they've kinda put a lid on most of the big ones so there's not really a whole lot to carry into the games

[prime hearth]

took em two comics worth of muddy legal character ownership and a lawsuit to finally get their ducks in a row lol

[fossil echo]

Maybe that was the point of doing all that before the post frontiers jump

[modest parcel]

I perscribe Dream Team and Hardlight much more significant SoA spearheading than not, and as a result they'd be the best avenue to actually materialize a game with a wish and a dream

[wide portal]

I think any illusions to actual IDW stories will be kept at the same level as other game references under Flynn

Crossworlds is a good example

[cunning echo]

dialogue was just a flynn thing

only liberty he had 😭

[wide portal]

There are callbacks to MV in there but nobody explicitly says, like, “this is just like IDW Sonic #25”

[toxic vapor]

Sega could still use the Freedom Fighters

They just choose not to LOL

They didn't use Sally Acorn for decades lol

[cunning echo]

Yeah but you know all that trouble with those chars

they're in the blacklist rn

at the same time

[fossil echo]

And for several good reason cause the version of Sally they own is not the one people beg for 💀

[wide portal]

I also don’t think the actual contents of the book are a concern either, I have reason to believe those should be fine in the case idw

uh

shitting itself even further than it already has

[cunning echo]

Freedom Fighters dont fit the games

Im sorry freedom bros

😭

[toxic vapor]

Erm actually Dream Team and Hardlight are Sega UK things

Erm

[modest parcel]

Potato potato

[toxic vapor]

At least we got a Sonic brand model for the IDW characters

Detachable muzzles and all

[wide portal]

There are people who have said they’re open to change but I do think their voices are relatively quieter in comparison

[cunning echo]

but she was in speed sim

oh yeah and the jakks figure

If there is a jakk figure there is a model

🔥

[wide portal]

A while ago I tried my hand at a sort of “Freedom Fighters: Gameverse” concept, can’t upload the designs rn

[toxic vapor]

She was stuck in this pose for so long bruh

[fossil echo]

Normal sonic fans always gonna be quieter

[prime hearth]

used to think there was an issue of accessibility with getting hold of the comics being referenced but after thinking about it more is it much different to, say, namedropping events from Heroes or Rush nowadays lol

[wide portal]

IVE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR YEARS

[toxic vapor]

https://x.com/CyanHyprPsychic/status/1993792420627218865?s=20

cyanhyprpsychic.bsky.social (@CyanHyprPsychic)

sally acorn rkgk
from september, never crossposted it

X · Nov 26, 2025, 9:22 PM

[prime hearth]

you've got better chance of grabbing a trade of IDW stories with em than getting Advance 3 lol

[modest parcel]

Exactly 💀

[toxic vapor]

Lowkey my friends Sally Acorn design was straight up just making her a female Ricky https://x.com/Mellon_Nova/status/1726767889905324507?s=20

𝗠𝗲𝗹𝗹𝗼-𝗡𝗼𝘃𝗮 (@Mellon_Nova)

Probably make it like this
Basically just make her a female Ricky

X · Nov 21, 2023, 1:02 AM

Biblically accurate SOJ 90s Sally design

[prime hearth]

(granted I think it also raises the point of "christ can they port half of the series' back-catalogue already" lmao)

[modest parcel]

Nah she'd be more anthro esque like the band in sonic 1

[wide portal]

This reminds me

[fossil echo]

WITHOUT THE TIME STONES

he says as they haven't been relevant since the game they originated from 💀

[modest parcel]

The flickies/creatures were always a different kind of animal when seen alongside the band cast

[toxic vapor]

I'm ngl I think my issue with the IDW character design also extends to Uekawa's Sonic designs in that I hate their lack of unique body language

All the IDW characters just look like Forces NPCs

[fossil echo]

Ain't nobody know what a time stone is but they probably dont care either

[toxic vapor]

Hell that even extended to Trip in Superstars

[prime hearth]

at least you can buy and play CD on the same platform as you're playing Gens on!!

wanna see where metal overlord came from after playing his boss in shadow gens? tough shit on steam it's dolphin time

[cunning echo]

but that was oshima

[toxic vapor]

How do you make a unique Chamelion character design in the 90s and make the most generic one decades later.

[cunning echo]

is also not the 90s anymore tho

[fossil echo]

I'm not sure what you mean by this, tangle, surge, lanolin, kit are def not being made in no forces oc creator

[toxic vapor]

Can't really talk shit since Uekawa redesigned Espio to just look like a Modern Sonic clone anyways

[cunning echo]

I feel like trip fits a lot for our time

for me at least

[fossil echo]

Whisper is the only one that actually lifts from that

And i hate it

[toxic vapor]

More so in terms of their body and facial structure

[fossil echo]

Mainly for how they do her mouth

[wide portal]

Yeah Whisper is pretty forces inspired but in regards to like proportions and shaping she’s relatively distinct

[toxic vapor]

They all have that default Sonic character design that the Uekawa era defo defined

[wide portal]

the most concrete 1:1 thing is like, her mouth

[cunning echo]

Well she was inspired by the avatar 😭

[toxic vapor]

Especially in comparing Jet the Hawktuah's beak vs Bean

[fossil echo]

Yeah her original concept was literally made in forces

[toxic vapor]

Top 10 most sauceless character redesigns in Sonic history

[modest parcel]

Ok we get it you hate Sonic

[cunning echo]

out of all idw chars

[modest parcel]

🤧

[cunning echo]

she's the most unique

[toxic vapor]

100%

[toxic vapor]

#killohshima

[strange estuary]

Is this fan-art?

[untold kayak]

Trip's design is very unique

[wide portal]

Concept

[fossil echo]

I disagree, you dont have a keen enough eye if you think this. I hated the oc creator proportions because they are an intentionally more scuffed version of the main character proportions to make them less interesting looking than the main cast

[untold kayak]

it's simple but really good

[toxic vapor]

Wait wasn't it implied that Trip's unmasked design was more of an Ohshima design?

[strange estuary]

Ah

[cunning echo]

I mean

prolly

lol

[toxic vapor]

Iizuka designed that shit my goat wouldn't flop me like this

He designed Balan

[untold kayak]

Trip was designed between both Oshima and Iizuka

[wide portal]

I think about the alternate reality where we got this instead and I’m like

thank

GOD

[cunning echo]

Oshima style has also changed a lot

[modest parcel]

And how did Balan's final form turn out huh...

[fossil echo]

Pissed me off back then how much skinnier forces oc were compared to the main cast

[toxic vapor]

This is literally how Iizuka draws Sonic characters lmaoo

[fossil echo]

So lanky and ugly ugh

[wide portal]

we’re at war kit we can’t eat

[wide portal]

knuckles took all the food

[prime hearth]

shoutout to extremely based kopaka mask inspiration

[fossil echo]

Classic sonic hogging up the edible island smh

[untold kayak]

https://gameinformer.com/preview/2023/08/02/meet-trip-the-first-new-sonic-character-created-by-naoto-ohshima-in-decades

Yeah. The concept of the character was created by Iizuka but the design was Ohshima

[wide portal]

Insane how much body variety is present in like one average issue of IDW with animal ocs and then you look at the games and every single one of these assholes is on a grass diet

EAT A BURGER

[cunning echo]

Oshima is a modern bro

🔥

[toxic vapor]

One of my best slander tweets

[wide portal]

Sonic wouldn’t say that

[toxic vapor]

He would say ts!

[cunning echo]

never forger

[prime hearth]

porcelain twink........

[past matrix]

Classic sonic?

WITH A SHOE RIM?

https://tenor.com/view/rdc-rdcworld-mark-phillips-rdc-mark-mark-phillips-surprised-gif-14267874170493632932

[cunning echo]

Oshima is a modern bro

[wide portal]

So I was thinking about Sally’s preboot Archie design right

[cunning echo]

there is also

[wide portal]

and the thing that’s consistent both there and her satAM look is the chest/stomach pattern with a different shade

and i was thinking about it, because i don’t know if any of the female game characters have it

[untold kayak]

I feel you're being extremely disingenous because Trip's design reflects her animal very well

[wide portal]

because a while ago I was trying to do a visual test with Rouge because her current design as is, it’s just a white head slapped on top of a one colour body

the announcement of her riders outfit coming to speed battle broke me on this because that design in particular highlights this the most

THERES NOTHING ELSE THERE

ITS JUST BLAN K

[untold kayak]

Trip is based on a sungazer lizard, her scales are worked of way that they form her dress, with the yellow parts having a metallic texture. In Japanese, sungazer lizards are known as armored lizards so this works well to compliment the animal. Her design was also done to be cuter by design. She is not supposed to be like Espio, she is clumsy and shy hence they lean more towards the adorable aspect but still is flexible enough to show strenght wherever is appropiate. The form of the head reflects the one of her species very well.

Even they double down on these aspects with the armor, playing it with the element of the mystery that the game develops while the armor has the glasses placement that alludes to the eyes of the lizard.

She has a perfect balance between a design that reflects the animal she is inspired from and one that reflects her overall personality.

[fossil echo]

I still dont like the intentional cutesy cat ears but I ain't trying to open that debate again. I wish they were pointier like her tail

[cunning echo]

I think her design is great

[modest parcel]

Local bat check-in results in medical turmoil; examiners recount experience of head of an anthro, body of a woman, and feet of soap bars

[cunning echo]

is super simple tho

but I think it fits with the rest?

[strange estuary]

Cool design, really want to see her modern variation though

[wide portal]

HA

HA HA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA

[untold kayak]

That's fair.

[modest parcel]

We're gonna have to lock plug up again

Someone get the sedative

[still epoch]

I feel if her ears looks like spikes more it would be perfect

[autumn yacht]

she's a lizard?

[rocky leaf]

this is fine

hill to die on, fighting fans that try to overcomplicate designs

[untold kayak]

Sungazer lizard, yes

[rocky leaf]

you're never seeing rouge naked (sorry to some people) so it's fine if the body's just a simple plain colour- it's just there to be the back canvas to whatever outfit she has

[untold kayak]

Trip is a sungazer lizard

[rocky leaf]

same reason amy has no pattern in her torso etc

[toxic vapor]

Saying all of this but I see her face, lack of snout and overall design and just see a generic character design

[toxic vapor]

I just don't see it

[rocky leaf]

she doesn't need to have any other details unless you start thinking "but it's weird a bat doesn't have fur and it's weird a hedgehog doesn't have a belly pattern and" at which point go wash your face and remember "at their best sonic designs are rubberhose cartoons, not furry fandom designs. matching the animals is not a priority, the clarity of design is"

[cunning echo]

chat..

[coarse ferry]

I’m fine with trip’s design because the main thing about her is centralized around her suit

[untold kayak]

Espio's classic design is so ugly to me

[cunning echo]

worst knux by far 😭

[untold kayak]

it's one of those unique =/= good

[toxic vapor]

I think you suck...

[cunning echo]

what were they thinking

[untold kayak]

for me

[still epoch]

https://tenor.com/view/trip-the-sungazer-sungazer-sonic-sonic-superstars-gif-4814013152398410600

[modest parcel]

Classic Espio is good

[toxic vapor]

Sonic Superstars if it was peak..

[cunning echo]

i dont think is ugly but he feels like he belongs to bubsy

[strange estuary]

It looks weird in art, but I absolutely adore his model in Fighters

[modest parcel]

Modern espio is good

[cunning echo]

😭

[modest parcel]

They're both good

[still epoch]

Modern Espio is near Classic Espio is just

Kinda ugly

[cunning echo]

he ugly overall

[toxic vapor]

Idk how bro looks ugly

[cunning echo]

maybe is just that

[toxic vapor]

He's so cool

Aura farming

[strange estuary]

I definitely think his modern design has just almost nothing going for it

[toxic vapor]

This dude is ugly??

[dawn pumice]

I’m sorry but classic Espio kinda butt ugly

Hate that huge ass butt brow look to him

[toxic vapor]

Maybe Uekawa had a point in making all the Sonic characters generic

He did the same thing with Modern Knuckles as well

Even started to do it towards Classic Knuckles during the Saturn era lol

[cunning echo]

well they had to move from their base

90s was already ending and cartoons were starting to look different

[toxic vapor]

Knuckles hasn't looked good since like Sonic 3 LMAO

[cunning echo]

ehhh

[strange estuary]

He looks good in Superstars

[cunning echo]

yeah

and in mania

[toxic vapor]

Standardised Modern Knuckles

[cunning echo]

he looks really good

[toxic vapor]

Fuck Mania Knuckles

[strange estuary]

Mania is a bit debatable

He's...

Pink

[toxic vapor]

KNUCKLES LOOKS GOOD WITH A TUMOR HEAD

[modest parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/knuckles-shrug-sonic-sonic-mania-echidna-gif-16045836

[toxic vapor]

STOP ROUNDING HIS SHIT OUT

[modest parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/sonic-and-knuckles-sonic-mania-sonic-the-hedgehog-knuckles-the-echidna-sonic-gif-18764666

[toxic vapor]

I hate every post 3 Knuckles for taking out his uniquely angular head shape

Rounding it out just conforms his design

[strange estuary]

I was thinking about in-game

[toxic vapor]

You can literally see it in the gifs you're posting

[toxic vapor]

Ts so ass bruh

[strange estuary]

Oh my Pink

Jokes aside, I like him anyway

I can't think of when Knuckles has looked good in modern games, though...

[toxic vapor]

Lowkey Riders Knuckles is the only post 3&K/Chaotix Sonic game to actually keep is OG head and dread silloutte

It's kind of funny

[untold kayak]

It was weird this Knuckles

I suppose they tried to give him a sonic 2-esque design (?

idk

[toxic vapor]

@glossy sphinx Release your fucking Sonic design document that shit is essentially done stop delaying that shit

[wide portal]

oh well!

Uekawa Knux for the win

[toxic vapor]

Cause I can't openly post that shit anywhere you're a bum

[glossy sphinx]

it isn't.

[autumn yacht]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/687846929996316739/1352427659698901084/caption.gif

[wide portal]

Are you waiting for TGA

[toxic vapor]

This is why Classic Sonic fans all suck yall are too perfectionist, make a one level demo and that shit never comes out

YOU'RE A BUM

[cunning echo]

prolly

I never liked sonic sprite in 3

[glossy sphinx]

sybau

[cunning echo]

I still prefer his 1 2 and CD sprite

[strange estuary]

I really like him

[modest parcel]

Real af

[wide portal]

look at his smile

let a brother out of the house and he shines like the sun

[toxic vapor]

This shit is really funny in how every single Knuckles except 3 and Riders is just seen as incorrect

It's kind of funny

[cunning echo]

I like the sorta purple in 1

and CD

[glossy sphinx]

they've been recently discussing this actually

[still epoch]

I like him, but i dont like how white he is and how thin his hair is

[glossy sphinx]

it might change.

[cunning echo]

[wide portal]

worst page of all time?

[rocky leaf]

please don't post the knuckles phrenology image again it drives me insane

[toxic vapor]

Most W page of all time

This is so fire

[still epoch]

I love how people use the sonic 3 Rotation sprite

In a lot of things

[toxic vapor]

Wait what image??

[glossy sphinx]

me when freeze decides to bring up the image that's literally about to get changed

[still epoch]

But i fucking love it

I love that sprite

[glossy sphinx]

https://gif.fxtwitter.com/tweet_video/G5G9_gVbIAIPyya.gif

[cunning echo]

is the only one that exist so yeah 😭

[strange estuary]

Like his skin colour?

[cunning echo]

I think mania also uses it no?

[still epoch]

No?

[toxic vapor]

Nah but this might be my favourite Knuckles set of drawing reference

[still epoch]

Thats not what i mean

[toxic vapor]

BRING BACK SONIC 3 KNUCKLES PLEASEE

[still epoch]

The sonic 3 sprite

Is not his idle

[autumn yacht]

i wonder how long archie used the sonic 3 design

[still epoch]

Is his rotation sprite

The idle is different

And i honestly prefer the rotation one

Lemme show the comparison

[toxic vapor]

@glossy sphinx Don't change it though, we have to keep the agenda PLEASEE

WE NEED THIS

[wide portal]

the irony here is how by only having two official examples it highlights that the supposed “right way” is so obscure that it technically isn’t actually the “right way”

[strange estuary]

Henry, what are you talking about

[toxic vapor]

Hopefully Frontiers 2 gives us a return to form

[glossy sphinx]

I'm not really involved with the process of the document anymore I just lurk and see what they're planning on doing

[autumn yacht]

what does ova sonic do for knuckles, hat aside

[toxic vapor]

They lowkey need you bro

[glossy sphinx]

W glaze

[still epoch]

Here it is

[lunar trench]

Okay pepito

[still epoch]

I prefer the rotation one he looks derpy lmao

[strange estuary]

How do you notice this

[rocky leaf]

yeah that was the point I pushed on it, they happily referred to uekawa model sheets on one page while calling the exact same model sheets wrong on another and it was kind of nuts

[strange estuary]

The shading is only ever so slightly different

[toxic vapor]

Lowkey I'm just gonna post yalls shits cause that shit leaked ppl have copies

[still epoch]

Sprite artist when i was 11

[toxic vapor]

Lmao

[still epoch]

I worked with these pixels before

It looks like hes looking up in the idle

[glossy sphinx]

doesn't matter they already prepared the necessary countermeasures

[toxic vapor]

Lowkey do you also see it as like, hella agenda posting

[autumn yacht]

i remember when everyone and their dog was like the sonic 3 sprite is worse that is still the consensus?

[still epoch]

In the rotation sprite he looks happier

[wide portal]

I felt like it walked a very thin line between “genuine critique” and “A Million Little Nitpicks and Preferences”

[toxic vapor]

It's so obvious the people who made it are extremely Classic biased

[still epoch]

Nahhh i like it

[wide portal]

Like there are fair critiques to be made about the models because of course there are

[toxic vapor]

But at the same time Kishimoto read it so I'm happy

@wide portal

[still epoch]

The sonic 3 sprite is iconic for sprite comics

Everyone used them

Since they are more expressive

[autumn yacht]

oh neat

[glossy sphinx]

😛

[strange estuary]

I think his Sonic 3 sprite is a lot goofier than any other sprite, but it has a good charm

[autumn yacht]

i thought it was because it was the latest classic sonic sprite

[wide portal]

I changed my mind, THIS is the worst page of all time

[cunning echo]

the whole doc is classic sided

[toxic vapor]

Bro wants Sonic to look like a generic shonen human bruh

[rocky leaf]

if it were honest, yeah

[strange estuary]

What is this doc

[autumn yacht]

isn't there an interview where they say they made sonic taller specifically for 3d?

[rocky leaf]

when I was arguing with the guy who posted it that was kind of what I was trying to make him understand

[still epoch]

It was either the advance sprites, sonic 3 sprites, or mod gen

[wide portal]

but gunning for the actual current designs, which by all means are still really solid, I think it’s very biased

[still epoch]

Good ol mod gen

Mod gen was my life lmfao

[toxic vapor]

But this is what I mean, yall straight up heavily prefer Modern shit, so you guys give push back to a document stating otherwise.
If Frontiers 2 gets announced with hella Classic design stuff injected into it, ya'll would probably glaze it but still have an underlying feeling of loss

[rocky leaf]

that it was being posted as "here's the rational review of the art style of sonic and the changes it went through and how it's wrong now" instead of what it actually was which was "my agenda is to make it look like how I want"

[wide portal]

sonic being a little more lean doesn’t rule out his ability to roll into a ball and it also emphasizes his agile/athletic ability

[toxic vapor]

Like I feel it happening

[wide portal]

he is the Fastest Thing Alive

[grand cobalt]

2 weeks left, can we make it to tga leakless,,,

[cunning echo]

so true 😭

[toxic vapor]

I just think the ball shaped body makes him a better character design that's superior to just giving him a generic humanoid body

[still epoch]

Sonic 3 sprites were used for more comedic type stories
Advance ones were made for more serious
And mod gen for both lmao

[rocky leaf]

I'm heavily classic based and the document still annoyed me lol

[toxic vapor]

But I LOVE when Uekawa draws stiff ass aura farming poses

[cunning echo]

this channel has become sonic debate club, leaks, rumours & speculation

[modest parcel]

Remember that Shadow Gens leaked on Resetera of all places

[autumn yacht]

my proposal: sonic boom