It had unique stage sections and hot shelter
#Sonic Leaks, Rumours & Speculation
fossil echo
Making characters optional just feels like a cop out, I want the whole experience and to see things from the main CHARACTERS (as in more than just sonic) perspective
wise chasm
I just think making separate campaigns makes the whole story disjointed
I'd rather it have one consistent thing
fossil echo
I disagree
smoky summit
Tbh I don't really think they will do it
wise chasm
With others getting smaller focus through side stuff
modest parcel
It's like they knew what the appeal of stories with multiple character perspectives were all the way back when they introduced it to begin with 😭
fossil echo
Going back and forth between all the different perspectives in tfh was annoying and hard to follow and ended up feeling like I wasn't getting enough of each character
smoky summit
I think they will do a dlc campaign in a year after launch but the main game I think at most will be a character switching situation
fossil echo
When you have a single campaign, it can flow with its own narrative to an end point that meets with the others
I think it's far more consistent
wide portal
(basically just do it the way Spider-Man 2 did it)
smoky summit
I think it'll either be solo Sonic, Sonic with companion and some assist moves, or Sonic and a character switching mechanic either on the fly or at designated spots
modest parcel
Adventure did it in a way that made more sense with a video game following a single gameplay style and story for that character, Adventure 2 did it more in the way a TV show/manga/book does where it jumps between each character perspective as the story flows
fossil echo
Tfh is all kinds of disjointed due to its format
smoky summit
Lol
wise chasm
Notice how I said literally nothing about TFH, y'know
fossil echo
Just as I get settled into playing a character oop now im one of the others and I gotta follow them
smoky summit
I think tfh is disjointed because of many many reasons
fossil echo
Notice how I said literally nothing about TFH, y'know
Tfh is the most recent example we have of the kind of format closest to what you want and isn't singular campaign focused story telling
Its multiple characters in a group that constantly switches perspective
wise chasm
Except that's not even particularly close to what I want them to do
fossil echo
How would it go then
wise chasm
You start as only Sonic, you progress through the story, you get to a point where you unlock a new character. They're now in your party, you can switch to them at any time
Then at some point later into the game you have a side story of some sorts where that party member gets a bigger focus
smoky summit
Sonic Dream Team 
fossil echo
Okay and i said that's just dream team and that loses the flavor of getting to see the game from their perspective
smoky summit
Tbf
modest parcel
Dream Team 💤
fossil echo
Like small side story <bigger campaign that converges
smoky summit
Dream Team dabbled with this
But
Boss intros were different per character
You could have unique dialogue/interaction in key moments depending who you pick
fossil echo
Its still not my cup of tea
still epoch
I think having stories with different perspectives is real fun
fossil echo
It just feels more like the uncomfident cop out route where you just make all the extra characters optional because you're scared of backlash. If the problem is the monotony of replaying the same game over across different characters, why not opt for making the campaign areas drastically different. Like for example: say sonic's campaign has his stages go across spagonia, Apotos, holoska, etc and then shadow's campaign has him go to steampunk city, golden temple, whatever else other location blah blah blah
cunning echo
I like the way 06 and final horizon handles the playable characters
fossil echo
Making other playable characters and their stories optional is the boring route imo
I want the whole experience
Story and gameplay
wise chasm
That's not gonna work with the current format is the thing
cunning echo
like adventure 1?
fossil echo
That's not gonna work with the current format is the thing
It could, I think the open zone format is actually way more friendly to this kind of idea than anything of the boost era
cunning echo
Honestly
fossil echo
After all, it's just open world with extra steps
cunning echo
if they did other stories it wouold be better if it was optional
wise chasm
Yeah, and open worlds usually just focus on one character, with other characters being either in the same party following the same story or as NPCs
cunning echo
locking us to play with the others after finishing one to get the final or true final boss is kinda lame
even in adventure 1 altho I love it, I just dont like to replay the other stories aside from gamma and sonic despite the others being really short
fossil echo
Yeah, and open worlds usually just focus on one character, with other characters...
Usually but not always
It can work, you're just being stubborn about it
wise chasm
GTA V is the only real exception I can think of that does the different perspectives thing that then converge together
cunning echo
Gta v story is all connected
prime hearth
even in adventure 1 altho I love it, I just dont like to replay the other storie...
think it helps for SA1 each character’s story is fairly bitesized, some more than others
wise chasm
I'm also gonna be real honest, Sonic will be the main character no matter how you slice it
cunning echo
like 4 out of 10 missions are with the three characters in the same place
prime hearth
Frontiers was like 30 hours for one character I am not putting 120 hours into a sonic story lmao
fossil echo
like adventure 1?
I dont think of adventure when I say multiple campaigns
wise chasm
Doing completely separate campaigns is pretty much out of the cards due to that alone
fossil echo
I think of most of the 2000s games
wise chasm
better make separate games outright for that
fossil echo
The simple format of just having sonic and another or more characters have their own story parallel to him
Whether that's blaze in rush, or sonic and shadow and silver in 06, or the teams of heroes, or the rogues story in zero gravity, etc
All in games with different gameplay styles and formats
cunning echo
but no one liked the teams in heroes 😭
One of the most criticized things is heroes is having to play them all to get final boss
wise chasm
Whether that's blaze in rush, or sonic and shadow and silver in 06, or the teams...
And I think all of them suffer from that in some capacity
fossil echo
Why is that the part you pick out and not the main point im making that they did this no matter the kind of game it was
What does zero gravity suffer from having a rogues campaign
What does rush suffer from
cunning echo
Also zg was a racing game so the way to make it fresh was with different tracks
cunning echo
the team sonic side is the base race tracks and the rouges is new stuff you can't play until you unlock in their story
wise chasm
They're all written very predictably, where both teams are pretty much separated and having only one or 2 points of convergence. They're too separate and the overall plot feels a bit padded because of that. And it only worked in those formats because the games by themselves were generally on the shorter side
wise chasm
when you could do a bigger story by sticking them a bit together more
loud zinc
Literally
fossil echo
They even go out of their way to make the rogues versions of the stages different
In stage design and time of day
forest fractal
Forces had the right idea of just doing one storyline but switching to different characters’ perspectives
fossil echo
They're all written very predictably, where both teams are pretty much separated...
This is nitpicking
I dont think the formula hinders the writing. If they weren't split like this and just different perspectives of sonics main story, it still would've been written the same. The problem is what they chose to spend time on.
Like this is more of a writing problem than a format problem
Not saying it's not a valid critique
But like i think this is a general issue for a different topic
fossil echo
Forces had the right idea of just doing one storyline but switching to different...
I still disagree, didn't like it there either. For what little story it had, going back and forth with Tails becoming butt buddies with classic sonic to the main plot gave weird tonal whiplash. If it were just one classic sonic campaign (god forbid oh my god bruh) it would keep the tonal consistency and maybe Tails bonding with him would've felt more believable with more dedicated focus
But likewise with what I said above
This could also just boil down to writing issues and what they choose to focus on
Getting a dedicated campaign doesn't mean they'll focus on what they should
wise chasm
It all comes down to preferences I guess
fossil echo
And vice versa
wise chasm
I think they already wrote a lot of stories for games with multiple playable characters where they get separated a lot and I kinda want them to do a story where they're all in one party
fossil echo
We need the idw game clearly
wise chasm
where separating, if needed, feels like a bigger deal
still epoch
I think they already wrote a lot of stories for games with multiple playable cha...
This is why we need an rpg
forest fractal
We need the idw game clearly
I thought we want a good story?
fossil echo
I think they already wrote a lot of stories for games with multiple playable cha...
Its not even separation tbh, for me, I like it most when these characters just happen to be living their lives where things happen in them and then they happen to converge. Like I agree they could use sudden separation less, but I do care for sudden shit hits the fan moments
They just gotta get more creative with it
fossil echo
I thought we want a good story?
It was sarcasm
Because my biggest issue with idw is how they make the plots be big party cast arcs and nothing fucking happens why is everyone here
Metal virus the only one with real justification
cunning echo
I thought you guys wanted more characters
forest fractal
No?
cunning echo
fossil echo
Yeah in their own campaigns
wide portal
I mean Neo Metal also made sense considering it being the introduction of the book + the scale of the threat
cunning echo
lmfao
the shadow comic will haunt idw fans dreams
bros arrived late to the year of shadow party
wide portal
I really should get back to my reread soon but I’m like actually really backloaded this week
forest fractal
Bro is backed up
wide portal
thanks soni appreciate it
untold kayak
I think Metal Virus also justified a large cast
forest fractal
thanks soni appreciate it
Fuck you
untold kayak
given the whole zombie apocalypse
forest fractal
Yeah Kit said that
forest fractal
Nova failed media literacy kill em
modest parcel
Yeah, and open worlds usually just focus on one character, with other characters...
The difference is that Open Zone isnt solely focused on the open world, as shadow gens showed
They can do whatever they want with how weighted the linear adventures are alongside the open zone contents
untold kayak
I think an open zone format can work if they use a mortal kombat-esque structure. Final Horizon sort of worked it but not quite
in Mortal Kombat, each character has their own episode within the story
one happens after the other
Final Horizon worked akin to this but storywise it was handled like if the stories are parallel to eachother, not one after the other
fossil echo
in Mortal Kombat, each character has their own episode within the story
This is just normal fighting game story structure
wise chasm
They can do whatever they want with how weighted the linear adventures are along...
Sure and fair, I honestly just don't want them to make multiple "main" stories in one game again
fossil echo
Cause that's the only way they can really do a story that gives all these characters a spotlight in the kind of game it is
Unless they make a side anime/adaption lol
untold kayak
Mhm, and I think for an open zone that type of storytelling structure can work better
as it would focus on giving a character a small campaign
that serves as a chapter in the overall campaign
fossil echo
I mean with the much lower amount of characters
That's literally just campaigns
As I wanted to see and what they used to do
past matrix
I'm mainly just very curious on how they're gonna pick up after the events of frontiers/start us off narratively after establishing that the crew has been apart for..probably a good chunk of time, I'd assume, doing their own things that they've wanted to do.
Let me find out what the fuck 'amy sharing her love with the world' looks like.
Cause I have my own ideas, but I'm not sure if they're gonna go that route.
fossil echo
They already answered in tailstube
(They remembered she was already doing that and that her story in frontiers was ass)
still epoch
Truly
wise chasm
I'm mainly just very curious on how they're gonna pick up after the events of fr...
They've rarely done proper follow-ups between games, I don't see them doing it now
wide portal
I'm mainly just very curious on how they're gonna pick up after the events of fr...
I think most of the “gap filling” isn’t gonna happen in the followup per say but in other stuff
forest fractal
IDW doing the follow ups will be funny
wide portal
Like I think it’d be a lot easier to do a “tails goes on a solo adventure” story in a IDW arc than any dedicated time explaining/showing it in the game itself
but I do think in terms of like, character writing I do think they’ll be following up on it
untold kayak
I'm mainly just very curious on how they're gonna pick up after the events of fr...
I guess they can pull the 'sonic says "long time no see" card' to reference that
wide portal
so my hope is that if Tails shows up he has a more substantial role in the plot
wide portal
I guess they can pull the 'sonic says "long time no see" card' to reference that
the worst card of all time it stops being effective when you use it every fucking time
I’m pulling it away from you hedgehog
forest fractal
Fucked up
You don’t know the passage of time in between main games
So it could very well be a long time
fossil echo
I dont think they're gonna pick up on it at all and it'll be saved for idw in like a year or two
If history with Ian remains true. He likes to open plot threads and "leave ideas" for others to carry out on. That frontiers ending was never done with a plan for the future, it's him leaving seeds hoping Sega will use it (they probably won't and they put Sticks in super hell)
past matrix
Me personally, I'd open up with Tails fighting his own fucking villains and shit.
wide portal
So it could very well be a long time
only works when you don’t have characters showing up consecutively
You can get away with it with the chaotix
shadow
not fucking team sonic or team rose
untold kayak
I dont think they're gonna pick up on it at all and it'll be saved for idw in li...
That was an earnest attempt even if it didn't amount to much
I mean he wanted to incentivize SEGA using Sticks
that's worth something
fossil echo
I know it's an earnest, but like i think it was too ballsy
wide portal
Sticks is sad because the whole reason she’s feasible to be used is because she’s appeared in sonic team related material and then sonic team straight up refuses to use her
cunning echo
they just have so many characters that is hard to put even one specifically around a game story without having to leave the liked ones
fossil echo
He dont even like officially work for Sega, trying to push them into a direction with just one project with them was out there man
Rip all the baited sticks fans
wise chasm
¯_(ツ)_/¯
wide portal
Sticks is sad because the whole reason she’s feasible to be used is because she’...
so I don’t really blame Ian for that falling through, it’s SEGA’s job to tell him “no don’t put that name in there we’re not gonna use her”
forest fractal
It’s better to accept that Sticks only got to appear back then was because Boom was part of current Sonic brand at the time so with no Boom, no reason to keep using her
wise chasm
There hasn't been a game that's been a direct follow-up to a previous game plot-wise since, what, Shadow 05?
fossil echo
so I don’t really blame Ian for that falling through, it’s SEGA’s job to tell hi...
Something Something communication issues with soj and soa still remain
cunning echo
mm
fossil echo
Like it's just written out and he's not even aware
cunning echo
There hasn't been a game that's been a direct follow-up to a previous game plot-...
Sonic gens sorta
to colours
fossil echo
He learned on bumblekast 💀
forest fractal
Tru
wise chasm
Right, I guess Gens is that, but also it's Gens lmao
untold kayak
SEGA is weird
wide portal
Whole JP script fiasco was a mess
past matrix
Something Something communication issues with soj and soa still remain
Those two gotta figure their shit out
forest fractal
There’s a vague connection between Unleashed and BK with the date with Amy
wide portal
All that and like 40% of the game’s dialogue still remained unchanged
Tangle still gets referenced over there 😭
wise chasm
I don't think Lost World counts
wise chasm
...no
forest fractal
Lost World had Baldy McNosehair reused
fossil echo
Tangle still gets referenced over there 😭
Because she's canon™ and sticks is in purgatory
Remember sticks got removed in deegee's Christmas art
wide portal
Because she's canon™ and sticks is in purgatory
Don’t worry I’m learning how to make summoning circles
fossil echo
She super off limits
wide portal
We can grab her when we all get dragged down by Mephisto because the central never happened
fossil echo
Memphis Tennessee
forest fractal
Bro dealing with Mephisto like Riri Williams omg bruh
past matrix
Before Sonic Frontiers came out, I was under the genuine impression that the game would have..
A 'proper' prologue intro for the opening of the game.
Which it kind of got, but in the form of the online comics instead.
Which kind of pissed me off, because as much as I like being dropped right into the action, I really like COOL set-ups and introductions.
And I just hope that can be a possibility for whatever frontiers 2 is.
wide portal
Bro dealing with Mephisto like Riri Williams omg bruh
this was the easiest joke possibility I’m literally a spider man fan it was right there 😭
untold kayak
Before Sonic Frontiers came out, I was under the genuine impression that the gam...
between the comics and the knuckles prologue to be fair
past matrix
Before Sonic Frontiers came out, I was under the genuine impression that the gam...
It's been a hot minute since we've opened on sonic just running around or something, casually.
untold kayak
which the latter is peak Knuckles content
forest fractal
this was the easiest joke possibility I’m literally a spider man fan it was righ...
Sorry I’m MCUpilled idc about radioactive spider jizz killing women
wide portal
IM CRYING
untold kayak
😭
glossy sphinx
my wifi died what are we talking about now
forest fractal
Yall just say anything and you expect me to get it
untold kayak
Anyone and their mother knows One more day
fossil echo
Bro these leaks and rumors are fire
forest fractal
Not me
untold kayak
literally no way home is an adaptation of that
wide portal
It's been a hot minute since we've opened on sonic just running around or someth...
the last time was like
Black Knight?
forest fractal
I DONT CAAAAARRREEEE
wide portal
How can I make this about Bundled Within
forest fractal
Who
glossy sphinx
grand cobalt
Sonic the sonic the fron tiers 2
untold kayak
Black Knight?
gens, funny enough
Sonic was running calmly when his friends called him for the party
I guess you can count TSR in terms of canon games overall
because sonic & co just met up Amy at a picnic due to an invitation they got beforehand
From there, the stories usually put Sonic in the middle of a quest or situation already
which isn't new to be fair
but you know, a casual sonic suddenly runs into a situation would be interesting
sick bobcat
I want multiple playable characters, especially now that recent games made them Sonic with a different air action
toxic vapor
toxic vapor
But as another move
??
modest parcel
Like just another move in the toolset like sliding
Frontiers already had the drop dash so expecting rolling to not be there would be kinda silly
prime hearth
I think it'll be there but not as a "main mechanic", just as a thing thats just sorta in the moveset now
same deal as the drop dash in frontiers, you don't really need it for anything but it's there if you want it, as a treat
they'll cook up something else for a main mechanic to sell copies
glossy sphinx
I think rolling will compliment the main meal of frontiers 2
sick bobcat
rolling will be in the Slide/Summsault category, I think, with Spin Dash being the main mechanic.
modest parcel
The second I see footage of a roll being used beyond that is the moment I lose my shit while also becoming incredibly worried
I've been through this before
The potential for failure is too high
The best outcome of failure would be the move functions as something completely different ala SLW spin dash, the worst outcome would be the move attempts to function like the actual roll but fails in terms of jank, game design balance etc
glossy sphinx
that would be the best outcome of failure?
modest parcel
I mean
If there are other optimal outcomes for a failed implementation of a roll I'd be down to hear them lol
glossy sphinx
modest parcel
I guess from certain perspectives the latter option would be the better alternative
Since it wouldn't be polished but at the very least the series would be attempting ideas they want to be fully incorporated
But I can't in good conscience get behind that when it brings the overall quality of the game down
Like Classic in Forces was definitely including ideas of classic gameplay in the game! It didn't make the game better though
sick bobcat
Classic Sonic wasn't roll physics accurate in Gens either
but it made up for it with overpowered Spin Dash and good level design.
modest parcel
Not sure which category Gens' spindash would fall into when it repurposed it for a different use, but at the same time was overpowered
sick bobcat
Frontiers implemented rolling for 2D Cyberspace and for some reason Knuckles in Final Horizon, but they weren't good.
I give Sonic Team props for trying
strange estuary
I really don't like how Spin Dash was handled there
modest parcel
I don't remember rolling being used in cyberspace; most of the time I attempted to drop dash down a slope in those stages it gliched out and came to a complete halt
sick bobcat
you can press the joystick down to roll like in the Classic games
strange estuary
Rolling exists in it
sick bobcat
I used it once and never again
strange estuary
But it's so jank
modest parcel
I don't remember rolling being used in cyberspace; most of the time I attempted ...
We do not, under any circumstances, have to give Sonic Team props for this 
lunar trench
Why would we ?
sick bobcat
I'm speaking for myself
modest parcel
Why would we ?
Idk
You don't have to explain btw lol I was just springboarding off to say a dumb proclamation
modest parcel
15 days left until TGA
2 weeks and 1 day
Which will be exactly 2 weeks away
Tomorrow
strange estuary
2 weeks can't be that bad
strange estuary
What are we doing if we get absolutely nothing on that show
forest fractal
I just need something to keep me going
modest parcel
Hold on let me log off and get some of that stuff rn
strange estuary
Nada
toxic vapor
I think it'll be there but not as a "main mechanic", just as a thing thats just ...
Yeah but if it’s the best way for Sonic to gain further speed down slopes than it would be a core mechanic
Sliding isn’t a roll lmao
toxic vapor
Classic Sonic wasn't roll physics accurate in Gens either
but it made up for it ...
It didn’t make up for it when it’s still largely the more forgettable part of Generations
Like if the roll is a slide and the frontiers spindash is the main mechanic, that’s just horrible
sick bobcat
rolling on B/Circle would not make it a 1:1 Slide
modest parcel
Yeah but if it’s the best way for Sonic to gain further speed down slopes than i...
I think if we get this at the bare minimum, rolling fans would be pleased
toxic vapor
rolling on B/Circle would not make it a 1:1 Slide
RT rolling take it or leave it
modest parcel
Like boost and roll side by side, but activating a roll is faster down hills (and they're frequent enough) and is solid in that right alone
sick bobcat
RT rolling take it or leave it
don't have to
button remapping exists for PC
toxic vapor
I think if we get this at the bare minimum, rolling fans would be pleased
If you think most rolling/Classic purists would be pleased
You’re wrong lmao
Most of those types started hating speed sim for adding the boost in any capacity
prime hearth
Yeah but if it’s the best way for Sonic to gain further speed down slopes than i...
not selling copies of the game to the average punter is it though
if you put "you can roll now!" on the back of the box it ain't doing much for the sales lol
toxic vapor
It’s still his core mechanic lmao
Frontiers didn’t advertise itself as a boost formula game but it’s the main traversal move
But I could honestly see them framing the rollmechanic as “return to form for Sonic for the first time in 3D”
modest parcel
Rolling has a certain appeal to it that hasn't been capitalized on in the eyes of the masses tbh
Jump, run, and roll through ___
Like it's functionally the same kind of premise that Mario mechanics get players excited by
untold kayak
But I could honestly see them framing the rollmechanic as “return to form for So...
Nah
that would be a bad move in a marketing sense
modest parcel
A fun movement mechanic that makes engaging with the game look appealing
untold kayak
it would just appeal to a niche that cares about that
modest parcel
Also yeah I doubt they'd advertise anything as
untold kayak
basically pulling a mania or superstars in that regard
modest parcel
A return to form
glossy sphinx
eh I agree with them
modest parcel
I think you're gonna be shocked
untold kayak
And I tell you that my study is marketing, and that is a bad marketing move 💀
modest parcel
😭
wide portal
you better hope sonic team follows up on that confidence of yours freeze 😭
glossy sphinx
freeze I understand what you're referring to but it isn't gonna be marketed like that
toxic vapor
And I tell you that my study is marketing, and that is a bad marketing move 💀
Many games use the return of old mechanics and those marketing moves have ended up successful lmao
glossy sphinx
you better hope sonic team follows up on that confidence of yours freeze 😭
no need!
strange estuary
Why do you sound so sure of it...
untold kayak
Many games use the return of old mechanics and those marketing moves have ended ...
Relatively speaking, but they aren't massive successes, specially in this time and age where people will just call that nostalgia bait
Like Mania was a success relatively but Forces got faster numbers than Mania
even TSR got more and that had a weaker cycle overall
Specially with Sonic, that card no longer works because Gens, Mania and Superstars already used it
toxic vapor
Do ya'll remember how people, even regular casual Sonic fans, were complaining about the lack momentum in Frontiers pre-release so much that Sega of America in a live stream had to use Sonic Forces carry over rail launching to prove the game has momentum lmao
toxic vapor
And people in here sure ate that shit up when that was shown off LMAO
Got the same people telling me momentum would be fly over level design clapping like seals during that era
modest parcel
Do ya'll remember how people, even regular casual Sonic fans, were complaining a...
No, but I do remember how Sam and Evan highlighted it in their speed strats videos
untold kayak
Freeze stop using niche groups to say it would work in a broader sense. Otherwise, Superstars would've been more of a hit than it initially was
glossy sphinx
Do ya'll remember how people, even regular casual Sonic fans, were complaining a...
I do not remember casual people complaining about that at all
toxic vapor
Freeze stop using niche groups to say it would work in a broader sense. Otherwis...
Superstars sold 2.5 million, more than most pre Frontiers Sonic games sold.
It's a full price 2D platformer game that's not a Mario game or Metroidvania indie game
prime hearth
Do ya'll remember how people, even regular casual Sonic fans, were complaining a...
freeze no offence but you were ten years old when this happened
toxic vapor
I was 16?
modest parcel
?
silent haven
Lmao you guys are gonna find Frontiers 2 shocking when it gets announced
I think frontiers is mid out of 10 but everytime you say this goofy shit I pray frontiers 2 ends up being nothing but glorified dlc and your fbi agent has to get the mental health hotline on speed dial
prime hearth
ahh shite I'm mixing up ages nvm me lol 😭
toxic vapor
I do not remember casual people complaining about that at all
I remember seeing Utopia ass thread comparasions and people shitting on how stiff his movement was
But yeah it's a bit broad LOL fair argument
wide portal
no need!
If they show off the next game and that fucking hedgehog has a orb for a body im setting this entire server ablaze
toxic vapor
I think frontiers is mid out of 10 but everytime you say this goofy shit I pray ...
Crazy how this is not gonna happen and I'm gonna be eating
glossy sphinx
If they show off the next game and that fucking hedgehog has a orb for a body im...
true circle belly 🤫
untold kayak
The very company said superstars gave them disappointing numbers 
And the marketing of Superstars was ngl very weak
toxic vapor
If this doesn't end up being true, I'm gonna leave this server embarassed af
modest parcel
No you won't lol
toxic vapor
I won't be able to show my face dexy poo
glossy sphinx
If this doesn't end up being true, I'm gonna leave this server embarassed af
me too!
modest parcel
Nero not you too....
glossy sphinx
not like that'll happen tho
prime hearth
I think reusing older mechanics is a valid approach but the amount of times that carries over into actual marketing to make normal people buy these videogames is practically zero
modest parcel
not like that'll happen tho
Game development is not that shrimple!!!!
prime hearth
it'd be like if smash 4 put out whole posters and tv ads with "we got rid of tripping!"
modest parcel
These people have to answer to others!!!
glossy sphinx
Game development is not that shrimple!!!!
I'm aware
glossy sphinx
These people have to answer to others!!!
I'm greatly aware
prime hearth
or if mario maker 2 has buses coated with "we added slopes!"
modest parcel
It's a group effort that we are not a part of
prime hearth
these are cool things ofc, but not how you sell a videogame
glossy sphinx
It's a group effort that we are not a part of <:vecort:842144137284157481>
I'm greatly aware
untold kayak
I think reusing older mechanics is a valid approach but the amount of times that...
Yeah. It can work as a little note there, but it cannot be the entire hook of the marketing
of any game
glossy sphinx
seems like you aren't
toxic vapor
I think reusing older mechanics is a valid approach but the amount of times that...
Call of Duty adds back like two mechanics that they removed a few games ago and people clap like seals and buy those games
modest parcel
seems like *you* aren't
You forgot my username from before so I doubt it
toxic vapor
or if mario maker 2 has buses coated with "we added slopes!"
Yeah but when did I ever say that Frontiers 2 adding back rolling would be put on billboards bruh
It'll just be highlighted lmao
glossy sphinx
You forgot my username from before so I doubt it
aren't you deleter
glossy sphinx
wait what does that have to do with this!
toxic vapor
Frontiers 2 is gonna be a return to Sonic 1 and the actual true soul of what made those games good compared to poor imitations like Lost World.
safe hull
we deadnaming?
toxic vapor
They're gonna take those core mechanics and expand on them and meld them into the modern era
untold kayak
toxic vapor
Frontiers 2 will be a true return to form but also evolution for the series
And we're getting the circle belly back because @wide portal should suffer...
toxic vapor
toxic vapor
Sonic 4
prime hearth
You forgot my username from before so I doubt it
mildly related but I keep reading your @ as dxedible
modest parcel
mildly related but I keep reading your @ as dxedible
That's valid....
coarse ferry
I feel we're caring about those physics way too much
I have to be fully real about this
modest parcel
i thought you were some new person
And now Freezer runs for the hills
prime hearth
That's valid....
forever weed brownie dex arc.......
coarse ferry
I feel like if they are going to go hard in over the classic sonic games
toxic vapor
Shadow Generations when I boost jump and lose all my speed and need to finger blast an exploit to gain any speed
wide portal
And we're getting the circle belly back because <@247573889918566400> should suf...
I’m gonna be giggling like a maniac when that modern model shows up in two weeks
toxic vapor
Physics don't matter!!
coarse ferry
Modern Sonic however just depends on the current direciton and with them may focusing with the aspect of Frontiers, I feel like physics shouldn't be the main aspect of the game
Only exception to that modern wise is well.... Silver lmao
untold kayak
Only exception to that modern wise is well.... Silver lmao
I feel Silver can work with Star Fox or Kid Icarus Uprising-esque mechanics
rather than what 06 aimed
toxic vapor
I think Modern Sonic as we know it is gonna be different with Frontiers 2
untold kayak
Star Fox........ eh yeah no unless you mean Assault
Assault, yeah
toxic vapor
I’m gonna be giggling like a maniac when that modern model shows up in two weeks
Reaction if you aren't??
prime hearth
calling it now, putting all my chips down, all in
its gonna be nearly the same model and nearly the same engine
coarse ferry
I mean Frontiers 2 is of course going to be different
glossy sphinx
calling it now, putting all my chips down, all in
its gonna be nearly the same m...
all your chips?
let's goo
coarse ferry
But I am more talking about small aspects like the combat and open zone
Not talking like say the islands, titans, and especially cyberspace
prime hearth
they'll do some work to the engine ofc (mostly just sorting the pop-in lol) but from a technical point of view we in the hedgehog engine 2 mines
untold kayak
But I am more talking about small aspects like the combat and open zone
Yeah the actual meat of the game should be the important one
prime hearth
I can also see em finally cutting off last gen with this one somehow
glossy sphinx
they'll do *some* work to the engine ofc (mostly just sorting the pop-in lol) bu...
I can see that
wide portal
Reaction if you aren't??
If it’s a classic-styled body ill draw myself grovelling to you, Mr. Freeze
if it’s closer to the adventure chest/modern body/no changes in the model whatsoever, I’m going Super
coarse ferry
But honestly I feel like in terms of major aspect I feel liek it's going to be the multiple playable chars but the way Final horizon went
prime hearth
HE/HE2 can be absolute lookers when they wanna so I don't think they're gonna dump it for UE5 quiiiiiiiiiite yet
toxic vapor
With how some of ya'll sound when it comes to Sonic is if Half-Life 3 had zero physics in it, with a gravity gun that sucks. And to defend Valve's poor choices you have to argue that Half-Life 2 isn't about physics because the gunplay and good level design is important.
coarse ferry
Sonic of course should be the main focus playable char wise, but I still say there is a good chance we'll get some few parts over the other chars
coarse ferry
I'm sorry, but half life is the last thing I wanted ANYTHING to be compared to fucking Sonic the hedgehog
Very bias over valve btw
prime hearth
I feel Silver can work with Star Fox or Kid Icarus Uprising-esque mechanics
bringing in kid icarus uprising writing too and rapturing like half the fanbase immediately
toxic vapor
coarse ferry
The way half life works with physics is not the way Sonic should normally goes for at all
toxic vapor
I'm sorry, but half life is the last thing I wanted ANYTHING to be compared to f...
I wasn't comparing HL to Sonic, I was making a commantary about how much the franchise has changed to the point that you guys have to keep telling yourselves that physics don't matter
coarse ferry
Even if trying to make an example, it's just too loose
untold kayak
(I would love that though)
toxic vapor
When physics are the core aspect of what made his character controller and character design work.
An argument would be to make that the series has changed, fair, but it seems ya'll feel so dismissive because this how the franchise has been for a while
modest parcel
And what sells
untold kayak
Physics are important but I don't think they are this do or die
dawn pumice
untold kayak
specially nowadays that the franchise had more games without them than with them
coarse ferry
I never said Physics shouldn't matter
I was more of saying that modern games doesn't put on their priority too much compared to classic games
modest parcel
Frontiers 2 is gonna be a return to Sonic 1 and the actual true soul of what mad...
Also oh my god 😭
toxic vapor
HE/HE2 can be absolute lookers when they wanna so I don't think they're gonna du...
Isn't Crossworlds mostly just HE2 shit ported to UE5 or am I stupid?
modest parcel
HELL WOULD FREEZE OVER before that happens
toxic vapor
specially nowadays that the franchise had more games without them than with them
Yeah and that's depressing
coarse ferry
If Frontiers 2 is going to be like sonic 1, I hope this series dies
modest parcel
Wow
toxic vapor
HELL WOULD FREEZE OVER before that happens
Kishimoto's best and most proud game is probably Sonic Colours
modest parcel
Harsh
modest parcel
Kishimoto's best and most proud game is probably Sonic Colours
Uhhhhhh
coarse ferry
I got to man LMAO
modest parcel
I dunno about that
strange estuary
Kishimoto's best and most proud game is probably Sonic Colours
What
coarse ferry
I like sonic 1 but still no
glossy sphinx
freeze...
toxic vapor
I like sonic 1 but still no
By Sonic 1 I think more so it's core and what it represents, not Labyrinth Zone LOL
You gotta look broader
strange estuary
Colours is the closest Modern Sonic has gotten to replicating Sonic 1's ideology
You didn't have to phrase it like that if this is what you meant
coarse ferry
I already did and still no
strange estuary
Just sounded confusing
toxic vapor
I already did and still no
And if it does do that?
prime hearth
Isn't Crossworlds mostly just HE2 shit ported to UE5 or am I stupid?
not an engine expert so don't quote me on this but the actual core game's mostly in UE5 IIRC, with some HE2 assets reused
coarse ferry
Then it's a massive downgrade compared to Frontiers 1 I have to be real
toxic vapor
I'm gonna be so forreal if Sonic Frontiers 2 had a lot of Classic Sonic influence in it, all of yall would still buy it LOL
coarse ferry
Depends
toxic vapor
Then it's a massive downgrade compared to Frontiers 1 I have to be real
A downgrade of homing attack chains and holding boost through automated rails?
That's the game?
prime hearth
I would buy it cos sonic owns my wallet by this point sadly
coarse ferry
Direction wise
safe hull
For the next Sonic game I hope it is fun and has good writing and leans more towards colorful graphics and uhhhh and has a fucking actual idw character show up and speak and that is what would make me happy 
prime hearth
very few sonic games of recent years I have not bought, a shameful mark on my record
coarse ferry
Because I feel like that's just basically "giving" up the frontiers and jump straight to complete new direction
Which again is always an issue I have this series for YEARS
toxic vapor
What if Sonic looked like this in Frontiers 2 LMAO
modest parcel
death
toxic vapor
Because I feel like that's just basically "giving" up the frontiers and jump str...
I think you're gonna be shocked I'm gonna be so real lmao
coarse ferry
I heard worse
strange estuary
I would buy it cos sonic owns my wallet by this point sadly
I'm in the same boat, I'd probably buy Frontiers 2 even if it was like Forces quality (which isn't bad but you know what I'm saying)
toxic vapor
I think the new direction we liked from Frontiers was being an open world game?
Did ya'll like the puzzles, realistic open world, automated platforming and shallow combat?
Like would moving away from those elements really be a punch in the gut for the series?
prime hearth
For the next Sonic game I hope it is fun and has good writing and leans more tow...
the pokemon conundrum: what if the idw cast got voiceacting but it was icky and too american and bad 💔
coarse ferry
I love the combat. The platforming I am bit whatever. Puzzle I am mixed over
toxic vapor
I love the combat. The platforming I am bit whatever. Puzzle I am mixed over
I do like the combat too but yeah
untold kayak
The realism worked for what Frontiers demanded
coarse ferry
But again I care more SEGA focusing on the direction they can easily do more with
prime hearth
I live in fear of what if tangle sound bad
untold kayak
I think it could have more Halo-esque structures and such to really land
modest parcel
Jack Fletcher comes for all
coarse ferry
I just hated when SEGA h ad the idea that works and then boom, new direction
untold kayak
but on itself the direction was not a bad idea
coarse ferry
This is the exact same problem I have with post SA2 and Generations -> Lost World
modest parcel
I just hated when SEGA h ad the idea that works and then boom, new direction
Boom
New direction....
coarse ferry
Exactly
modest parcel
RoL return confirmed?!?!
prime hearth
Jack Fletcher comes for all
its not even a Jack thing its just a dubbed in america thing aaaaaaaaaa 
coarse ferry
Oh fucking hell LMAO
toxic vapor
Maybe Sonic 1 was a weird phrasing cause I think Frontiers 2 might have more CD influence in weird ways lol
untold kayak
I just hated when SEGA h ad the idea that works and then boom, new direction
Do you know something?
Or this is just wishful thinking?
coarse ferry
none
modest parcel
Maybe Sonic 1 was a weird phrasing cause I think Frontiers 2 might have more CD ...
I think Frontiers 2 will have 06 influence
coarse ferry
This is how we make Silver a main char again
toxic vapor
I'd actually argue Sonic 1 is one of the biggest evidence for why Sonic's acceleration based character controller is so good. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/268476331879038976/1324447096807489647/vuKi2ay_fGkVehPx.mp4?ex=69289afa&is=6927497a&hm=fc40bf5adb5604aaef8412d4ff804a1cec9669cb7ecd51b124008b0672d08be5&
modest parcel
Just look at how many twitter users are talking about 06 now Kishimoto's gotta notice
safe hull
the pokemon conundrum: what if the idw cast got voiceacting but it was icky and ...
I'd put a small grenade in my mouth and have Jack Fletcher watch my head violently erupt and burst into red paste to change the trajectory of his life forever and haunt him after my death to ensure the trauma begins an early retirement :)
toxic vapor
@glossy sphinx speak more
why do agree with my speculation on OG Sonic game design influence being a big part of Frontiers 2
I'm actually curious lmao
prime hearth
I'd put a small grenade in my mouth and have Jack Fletcher watch my head violent...
TELL THIS, ASSHOLE, THAT IF HE WANTS TO, LEARN HOW TO DUB MY LESBIANS HES GOTTA DO IT MY WAY
THE RRRIGHT WAY
safe hull
Sonic won't be at TGA you psychopaths
toxic vapor
If it’s a classic-styled body ill draw myself grovelling to you, Mr. Freeze
if...
Bro I was saying Adventure chest and you hate it LMAO
toxic vapor
2 weeks 1 day until Freeze is shocked by Frontiers 2
I won't be shocked
You all will be shocked
prime hearth
one week until switch 2 crossworlds and I won't caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaare
modest parcel
I won't be shocked
Yes you will!!!
strange estuary
You all will be shocked
What will you be doing if the opposite happens
past matrix
What are we doing if we get absolutely nothing on that show
Then I’m telepathically teleporting a brick into Nero’s brain for cryptic posting about knowing things about a game awards reveal.
strange estuary
Come on Freeze...
modest parcel
You will be shocked
prime hearth
actually fuck it you know what would be very funny and good
modest parcel
Your mouth will open
prime hearth
no new sonic game announcement
modest parcel
Your eyes will not be of the belief
prime hearth
crossworlds season pass 2 in development announcement
strange estuary
I'd rather get nothing instead
prime hearth
three more nickelodeon series dropping next june chat.....
glossy sphinx
<@435257450430595072> speak more
playing bingo with my fam rn
toxic vapor
What will you be doing if the opposite happens
untold kayak
toxic vapor
I bought Crossworlds for 140 AUD and I only have like 20 hours in it
prime hearth
you will drive thru the loud house or whatever and u will like it
but they'll add optimus prime so people will buy the pass anyways (I will be people)
cunning echo
Ha
modest parcel
where the leak
I called you 12 hours ago where were you
cunning echo
omg hiii dex
modest parcel
We have a flooding bathroom sink and the toilet's flushing backwards!
cunning echo
untold kayak
Okay returning to the old topic of marketing
I can see them promoting the physics but only in a somewhat vague sense of the word
like 'run, jump to reach new places' or something
Nothing to allude to the whole 'Sonic is Back' because Superstars and Mania already pulled that card, and usually games must be promoted on their own merits
and not what came before it
modest parcel
I think we'll be getting something completely out of the left field
glossy sphinx
yep
untold kayak
Something like 'return to form' won't really mean anything to mayor audiences because they probably haven't even touched the classic games, so it would be a meaningless platitude
glossy sphinx
I agree
modest parcel
untold kayak
https://youtu.be/DoqUynYMiNM?t=741
Just check the rating of Star wars taglines of this video to get what I mean
modest parcel
I'd say that Frontiers is the game Kishimoto is most proud of considering he put his all into it
untold kayak
Yeah I think so too, the team particularily felt very proud of Frontiers
It was a miracle for them
modest parcel
Colors is his most polished but I don't know if that's the game he feels the most passion for
cunning echo
Like to the point of making Iizuka say that sonic fans don't understand sonic back when the ign thing happen was crazy lmfao
They were protecting this game at all cost
untold kayak
If the next game has pinball physics coolio, if not, then coolio
as long as it is, at the bare minimum, improved frontiers physics
we will be good
and it has good level design of course
untold kayak
That time was a disaster for sure
modest parcel
Kishimoto's games have historically been the games that don't mesh well with the concept of traditional Sonic physics/flow is my thing
modest parcel
Secret Rings, Black Knight, (Colors is an exception but not very much of one), lost world, forces, and frontiers
And now we have people hedging all their bets on another kishimoto game gaining that sauce
glossy sphinx
for good reason
untold kayak
To be fair
untold kayak
the videos definetely helped to illustrate better some points
It's a factor for sure
but not the only reason
untold kayak
Kishimoto himself wanted to return to something more akin to Adventure if I recall correctly
glossy sphinx
yeah he did
untold kayak
So the initiative is there
modest parcel
Kishimoto himself wanted to return to something more akin to Adventure if I reca...
He says that to everything
cunning echo
Secret Rings, Black Knight, (Colors is an exception but not very much of one), l...
forces was his biggest miss ngl
untold kayak
amiright nova!
Correcto
cunning echo
but at the same time
modest parcel
Anything that fans want he says he would like
cunning echo
no one really knew him much until frontiers lmao
glossy sphinx
Anything that fans want he says he would like
mhmm...
untold kayak
forces was his biggest miss ngl
and to be fair, there was not much they could do when most of the development of forces was for the he2
not much time to cook for the team so
still epoch
no one really knew him much until frontiers lmao
All we knew about him is that he had curly hair and made bad sonic games
Now we know even his preference in porn good for him
cunning echo
Forces is the most safe game ever, the only new thing was the avatar but the game was playing everything safe
just get some sales after boom fiasco
glossy sphinx
All we knew about him is that he had curly hair and made bad sonic games
Now we ...
thanks for the reminder
still epoch
We are truly aquainted
cunning echo
All we knew about him is that he had curly hair and made bad sonic games
Now we ...
People just jumped into conclusions fast 😭
even with nakamura
I remember when shadow gens was revealed and nakamura made some tweets about it and people were already saying it was forces too
prime hearth
All we knew about him is that he had curly hair and made bad sonic games
Now we ...
the true reason for Tori's introduction: the super sonic breastfeeding QTE minigame
untold kayak
the true reason for Tori's introduction: the super sonic breastfeeding QTE minig...
Ayo?!
toxic vapor
the true reason for Tori's introduction: the super sonic breastfeeding QTE minig...
PLEASEEE
glossy sphinx
...
toxic vapor
What
modest parcel
...
strange estuary
Why does he have to go Super for that?
untold kayak
...
modest parcel
What the hell happened to my bookmarks I had a gif for this
prime hearth
Why does he have to go Super for that?
for the banger tunes of course, wouldn't wanna suckle in silence smh smh
still epoch
the true reason for Tori's introduction: the super sonic breastfeeding QTE minig...
What
cunning echo
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G6EJTFKWQAA1WPv?format=jpg&name=small
LOOL
are amy and metal next there dex?
share sonic 4 with silver
modest parcel
yes
cunning echo
toxic vapor
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G6EJTFKWQAA1WPv?format=jpg&name=small
Greedy fuck
toxic vapor
I'm just happy we're getting a new sonic game
This is just too like generic of a statement
lunar trench
Like this franchise almost dissapeared and yet i've never been so excited for a new sonic release
cunning echo
I cant wait to see what they been holding
lunar trench
This is just too like generic of a statement
Freeze stfu and just let me be happy
toxic vapor
It’s a statement made to farm people saying “same”
strange estuary
Do you guys think we will get a side game
toxic vapor
Like keep that overly positive shit to yourself
modest parcel
Like keep that overly positive shit to yourself
Shouldn't it be the inverse
untold kayak
Do you guys think we will get a side game
It is possible
modest parcel
Aren't you supposed to keep these thoughts in your head as everyone else keeps talking about what they want to talk about
lunar trench
Do you guys think we will get a side game
Atp i feel like we're running out of remaster so idk if it's gonna be that... so really idk what kind of side game we could get
cunning echo
lost world remaster
strange estuary
Wdym running out of remaster?
cunning echo
prime hearth
Like keep that overly positive shit to yourself
untold kayak
Atp i feel like we're running out of remaster so idk if it's gonna be that... so...
I can imagine a sports game or fighting game
something relatively small
strange estuary
Sega Superstars
toxic vapor
No
modest parcel
Aren't you supposed to keep these thoughts in your head as everyone else keeps t...
@Freeze like I need you to consider how this scenario would go down if this was a party and several people were saying that, and you said the exact same thing
lunar trench
Part of why i' m excited too is that now i will finally be able to play sonic with mods thx to this beast
still epoch
I hope its not on switch 1
lunar trench
Oh
still epoch
but
modest parcel
My mistake
lunar trench
LMFAO
modest parcel
still epoch
GUESS I CAN PLAY
still epoch
Nah
I want it to be on switch 2 lmao
And i think i rather not play it for a while so they can escape the switch 1 power
And finally
FINALLY
do somethjng thats
Ps4 core
dawn pumice
100% gonna be on switch 1
lunar trench
And i think i rather not play it for a while so they can escape the switch 1 pow...
I mean, you prolly find an old xbox one or ps4 (if it still releases on those consoles)
modest parcel
See if they were smart they'd keep doing the Shadow Gens formula while getting the most out of Switch 1
While still being impressive
Conceptually
lunar trench
See if they were smart they'd keep doing the Shadow Gens formula while getting t...
What does that even mean
"Shadow gens formula"?
still epoch
100% gonna be on switch 1
You should learn to just not saying things sometimes
dawn pumice
Why 😭
modest parcel
There's so many ways
dawn pumice
I’m just being a bit honest 😭 😭 😭
still epoch
Oh boy people would be so pissed lmao
dawn pumice
Switch 1 is still one of the biggest sellers for Sonic
lunar trench
I’m just being a bit honest 😭 😭 😭
Okay fie-"the levels will suck ass"-ry
still epoch
Another sonic game that accounts for the power of a 2005 console
dawn pumice
Them abandoning it rn will dent their sales figures
dawn pumice
Okay fie-"the levels will suck ass"-ry
I ain’t getting my hopes up for cyberspace 2.0 😭
dawn pumice
lunar trench
dawn pumice
cunning echo
Part of why i' m excited too is that now i will finally be able to play sonic wi...
what laptop is that
modest parcel
"Shadow gens formula"?
Take the hub world design of Shadow Gens. Apply it to multiple hubs like Frontiers, but keep it scaled back and polished. Make the levels take place inbetween them.
lunar trench
what laptop is that
Lenovo legio pro i5 2025
modest parcel
Let the story itself sell how crazy the game is rather than the tech
modest parcel
It's not that small
lunar trench
Even compared to kronos
modest parcel
You gotta consider that the concept of running large distances doesn't really work without the size of
Ouranos
lunar trench
Idk imo ares is perfect
modest parcel
Kronos is small, but large enough to give the impression that there is so much to run through that it falls short
Nah Ares isn't that compelling in terms of size, but the canyons make it a lot more difficult to navigate
lunar trench
I think it's big enough to have good terrain verticality without it taking too much place
modest parcel
Ouranos is the only time I felt sufficiently whelmed by the size of a map
But I do get it
lunar trench
Nah Ares isn't that compelling in terms of size, but the canyons make it a lot m...
It is for the switch is what i'm saying
modest parcel
The appeal of Frontiers is the "sandbox" angle
lunar trench
Cuz you were talking about shadow gens
But shadow gens is barely half of kronos
Iirc
lunar trench
Also shadow gens feels so fucking slow so the hub feels a bit a bigger bcs of this
Tbh i feel like they're gonna go for an open world
Idk it just seems like the logical progression in terms of scale and what everyone has been doing
Call it dumb idk but it's just a hunch
modest parcel
Also shadow gens feels so fucking slow so the hub feels a bit a bigger bcs of th...
See, Shadow Gens will get praised as the better game in comparison to Frontiers by the average gamer, but since it fails in the category that fans enjoyed out of Frontiers' more open design, it's worse for it
cunning echo
Also shadow gens feels so fucking slow so the hub feels a bit a bigger bcs of th...
still don't understand the reason for that
lunar trench
See, Shadow Gens will get praised as the better game in comparison to Frontiers ...
Okay no
See
cunning echo
because in his linear levels he feels amazing
lunar trench
I think shadow gens' hub
Is better in a lot of ways to frontiers
Esp in the platforming dprtmnt
But it just feels very flat in terms of geography
Its scale is well used
modest parcel
To the game's benefit in terms of polish
lunar trench
Yes
modest parcel
oh wow discord be lagging
lunar trench
But also
Shadow just feels sluggish sometimes
And giving him a giant hub sometimes doesn't help
The air drag is
Abhorrent
And genuinely made my experience of navigating the hub worse
No rail launch either
I feel like shadow gens is a good prototype for what a city could be built like as a playground for a sonic character
modest parcel
The air drag is slightly more egregious than it was in Frontiers base, but the lack of rail launching is pretty much the nail in the coffin in terms of it ever feeling equal as a playground
You can use spear gliding but
It's a more demanding substitute
lunar trench
It's also a bug
Or an exploit if you'd rather call it that
Oh yeah and of course shadow feels worse to control than sonic in general
Outside of the air drag
The turning is heavier
And in the air too
Of course the hub was built with that in mind so it's still good but that's besides the point
Yk what would be sick tho ?
Rather than a city
An abandonned city
With nature being used as platforming stuff
modest parcel
I want that but we gotta lead with something else
I do not want "Sonic ripping off of Horizon/TLoU???" topics to be the next big thing
😭
lunar trench
I do _not_ want "Sonic ripping off of Horizon/TLoU???" topics to be the next big...
Okay but we're talking about good games here why would you bring those two sony slops into the conv
(Teehee)
modest parcel
See, Shadow Gens will get praised as the better game in comparison to Frontiers ...
But my point still stands imo
modest parcel
The less constrained nature of Frontiers is the selling point as opposed to those more strict gameplay design philosophies
lunar trench
And you use vines as rails between building or smthng
lunar trench
The less constrained nature of Frontiers is the selling point as opposed to thos...
Well yeah but originally the conv was about how shg knew about the switch's limitations and made it work still
And i'm like yeah true
But also
This feels very limiting
And sadly st doesn't have the monolith soft black magic scroll to do miracles
modest parcel
Yes but it also plays to what audiences want; not Sonic fans, but fans of video games overall instead
The freedom begets jank
Oftentimes
lunar trench
Yes but it also plays to what audiences want; not Sonic fans, but fans of video ...
But that's
still epoch
eats
lunar trench
That has no corrolation ?
Like
You say
People like smaller tighter hubs bcs they were bigger and worse in frontiers ?
lunar trench
And that makes sense somehow ?
modest parcel
Yes
modest parcel
Right, but it's an example
lunar trench
Nvm i was talking about an ow
modest parcel
And my point is that those people prefer those smaller hubs
lunar trench
Right, but it's an example
Idk this feels like some cherry picking
We're talking about frontiers that has
A very
Different
Design philosophy
Using it as a gotcha
lunar trench
modest parcel
It's not a gotcha it's my mindset 😭
lunar trench
No you said it was the public's mindset
lunar trench
Anyway what i wanted to say
It would seem logical that people prefer the hub of shg
BUT
Not necessarily bcs of the reasons you listed
There's also the platforming
The overall art direction
Etc etc
Things that shg does better yeah
I'd go as far as to say it is objectively better
lunar trench
But size is not a valid argument when both have a very different gameplay design philosophy
modest parcel
They aren't that different
dawn pumice
Imagine the cyberpunk city being like that in the future
lunar trench
They aren't that different
Not that different but still
And also
As i said
Shg is just the better realized better polished open zone/hub/world/wtf ever
glossy sphinx
Imagine the cyberpunk city being like that in the future
I'm pretty sure that the cyberpunk city is the future variant
of the cherry blossom place
lunar trench
Size doesn't matter to a degree also stfu as long as the "level" design is well done
glossy sphinx
if we're taking the survey at face value
dawn pumice
I'm pretty sure that the cyberpunk city *is* the future variant
Don’t know if I like that ngl
past matrix
dude it’s like a time loop in here
glossy sphinx
Don’t know if I like that ngl
eh idk it always made sense to me
cyberpunk city with aggressive enemy hordes always gave me "bad future" vibes
cunning echo
the platforming is a little better than frontiers cuz is integrated in the design but is the design is still plane
dawn pumice
I hope it was like
Cherry blossom past
Cyberpunk city present
City ruins future
modest parcel
So the reason why they have a different gameplay design philosophy is because the gameplay philosophy is different. Every platforming challenge is compartmentalized, and will likely require you to start from the very start of the intended platforming level design, because the gameplay is limited.
glossy sphinx
I hope it was like
Cherry blossom past
Cyberpunk city present
City ruins fut...
I don't know if they're gonna copy CD's flow entirely lol
dawn pumice
I don't know if they're gonna copy CD's flow entirely lol
true
modest parcel
Things like rail launching and floatier physics are a part of Frontiers, but as a result something like Shadow Gens' level design isn't really possible
wide portal
So cherries for the present, cyberpunk for the future
modest parcel
Since you can basically fly to any section you want if you have the right movement for it
coarse ferry
past should be more... nature like
Since it should at least be more "alive" before Eggman caused anything
glossy sphinx
ofc
modest parcel
Since you can basically fly to any section you want if you have the right moveme...
The problem is this is in equal parts looked down on as well as idealized by video game fans, and is what leaves Frontiers in a divisive state of people both respecting and disrespecting its world design
Meanwhile Shadow gens gets praised all over
But it lacks that freedom
But that's by design
And that services the reception towards those platforming challenges now, since they feel properly implemented and not a hodge podge of game design (yes I know the visual element of Frontiers plays into that sentiment but I'm talking about how people view it's design alongside that)
modest parcel
Damn I always stop just short of saying the point I wanted to make and then leave all this feeling pointless
lunar trench
I like sownic 
lunar trench
Damn I always stop just short of saying the point I wanted to make and then leav...
Next vc dw
We gotta do it before frontiers 2
modest parcel
The point I wanted to make was akin to the thoughts people have towards flying over platforms in linear Sonic games
And how it relates to how these open worlds are designed as well
cunning echo
Fuck the switch
I hope they move on already
modest parcel
The freedom is a legit form of appeal that Sonic fans aren't wrong to want, same as momentum fans wanting the ability to launch themselves over platforms
cunning echo
Honestly
lunar trench
I hope they move on already
Too much potenshial muns
toxic vapor
I don't know if they're gonna copy CD's flow entirely lol
I’d be happy tho lol
lunar trench
Daddy sega won't let'em
toxic vapor
Sonic CD 2??
toxic vapor
Next vc dw
This ain’t gonna be in tc tho..
modest parcel
Frontiers has the same catharsis as something like Sonic GT but Frontiers 2 needs something more akin to the catharsis as Spark 3
And yes GT has catharsis
Just because it has haters don't ever let that convince you there is no catharsis
lunar trench
Frontiers has the same catharsis as something like Sonic GT but Frontiers 2 need...
10km long corridors with 90° turns ? U might be onto smthng...
modest parcel
That'd be the same mistake Frontiers haters make
lunar trench
cunning echo
This ain’t gonna be in tc tho..
Tc got no more vs 
modest parcel
10km long corridors with 90° turns ? U might be onto smthng...
I mean with the parallel to flying over platforms you bozo
toxic vapor
Tc got no more vs <:bigsad:1163252899023962254>
Lowkey most vcs in the past were corny
cunning echo
nah I disagree
toxic vapor
Ngl
cunning echo
I barely remember
lunar trench
I mean with the parallel to flying over platforms you bozo
I just wanted to be annoying teehee (i've never been interested in playing spark 3)
cunning echo
but I do remember it was laugh around
modest parcel
Freeze I'm ngl you gotta be more sincere for the VCs to hit
cunning echo
I remember that one time you were fighting with someone because they called burger a chicken sandwich
cunning echo
also the UNO times
lunar trench
I remember that one time you were fighting with someone because they called burg...
Oi moit you cain' djuss dew doat
toxic vapor
Nah but they remind me of that one dude and that doesn’t bring good memories at all
toxic vapor
Freeze I'm ngl you gotta be more sincere for the VCs to hit
I don’t see anyone in TC as a friend to really care too much lmao
coarse ferry
I don't really go into VC because time restrictions basically for me
Moment I get asked, I dipped immediately
cunning echo
I always do nothin
modest parcel
If you can't have an earnest one on one convo with someone how are you gonna expect to meet them on their level at all
cunning echo
aside from college
modest parcel
Does human connection mean nothing in interaction 😭
Are we all a distraction until
Something else
?
toxic vapor
If you can't have an earnest one on one convo with someone how are you gonna exp...
I used to have earnest convos here lmao but I’ve laid my bed so I don’t care anymore
modest parcel
That doesn't sound right