#Homerow Mods Issue

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

median vault
#

After switching to a split keyboard for work and using my wooting for the gaming station I though I'd try to use the same homerow mods that I am running on the split keyboard, but for my Wooting Typing Profile. I tried to achieve that by setting the home row keys to Mod Tap keys, but no matter how I set the activation time it seems to sometimes hold the effect no matter the press time e.g. pressing s and t in rapid succession(like when e.g. typing "first") the mod always seems to active, typing neither s nor t. Is there another firmware trick to get proper homerow mods working, or am I just out of luck unless Wooting adds a custom Key Mod Setting allowing me to fine tune like when using QMK? (usually you can set Tapping Term, Hold Settings and so on)

image.png
modest gullBOT
# median vault After switching to a split keyboard for work and using my wooting for the gaming...

Thanks for posting your support request!

Note: #community_support is only for answering general questions and for troubleshooting.
All order-specific and shipment-specific support must be handled via the Wooting Support Wizard*
(You need to create an account on the Wooting Hub, using the same email address as your purchase. The account is not created for you automatically!)

Troubleshooting your Wooting Keyboard? Try these steps first!
Basic Troubleshooting

Questions about shipping, or what to do if your shipment has a problem?
Possible Problems During Shipping (with Solutions)

Looking for information about your specific order?
You can find that on the Wooting Hub! There you can also add upgrades, update your shipping address, and much more.

Is your order about to ship and you need to pause it for any reason?
Place it on hold via the Wooting Hub!

Do you need to...

All of these types of requests need to be made via the Wooting Support Wizard!

foggy grotto
median vault
eager gale
#

Wanted to chime in here since this is what came up in my search for the same issue/request. Wootility, including the beta, does not properly support Home Row Mods. If, for example, you setup S to have a secondary hold function (ALT), then quickly typing "test" will result in "tets". None of the JIT behaviors change this. The only way to get the word test to type is by typing tes, pausing, and then typing t. The way it should work (and does on other keyboards that have support) is that quickly typing should produce the output in the same order as how you typed it.

foggy grotto
eager gale
#

Unfortunately, the timing isn't enough to make this work effectively. Home row mods require very fine tuning to work. The problem with reducing the hold duration time is that below a certain threshold you get a different problem which is false holds. You're counting on humans to have 1 ms precision in their typing to differentiate a hold vs tap.

#

To illustrate my point, if I set S to Shift on hold, make the hold duration 1000ms, and set JIT to never. You'd expect typing test where each key was pressed faster than 1000ms would result in the word test since none of them met the duration for holding. What happens is you get the word tets

foggy grotto
#

@pure folio feedback on JIT behavior modtap, read above

surreal stream
median vault
# eager gale Wanted to chime in here since this is what came up in my search for the same iss...

I wanted to get back to this. I took another try on fixing it and am still suffering from the same problem(since the JIT setting now even includes a hint for homerow mods).
Alt key behavior for example is generally consistent in being "in the wrong order" delaying the s key (if used as alt) to be placed after the following key every time, if typed too quickly. Changing the timing makes it work sometimes, but causes many other issues like being almost unusable since sub 140ms makes it trigger by chance if you're typing isn't perfect. The shift key mod also feels unreliable at best, but mostly just unusable.

So to the best of my understanding the "Homerow Mod Behavior" is still not really provided. It would be great to have someone from Wooting take a look into it as I would love to have that functionality for working on my keyboard.

median vault
pure folio
#

I should get myself one of those boards to experiment with thinkies

surreal stream
#

other than "globally delay every output for x milliseconds to positively determine whether input was a keycombo or just typing"

#

which just sounds awful, like using a laggy keyboard

#

like I struggle to understand what setting will distinguish D-F pair typed quickly to be typing or a keycombo for example

eager gale
median vault
surreal stream
#

yeah I've read all that, back when I originally was campaigning for more configuration to be added, and again now. I just don't see what setting will make the keyboard read your mind as by nature of mod-tap, the tapping output is only output when the key is being released, which is too late when just typing normally

#

you will have already depressed the next key before you released the homerow mod key so you get letters in the wrong order

blazing crystal
#

I just wanted to add my own experience. Homerow mods on Wooting keyboards seem to be impossible. If you type really slow, it can work, but if you type slow, you probably won't be considering homerow mods anyway. I feel that Wootility is falsely advertising that it can be made to work.

I don't know how other QMK, ZMK, Oryx, etc. implement this. But I can assure you, they are not reading my mind. None of these keyboard has ever switched my inputs around.

obsidian shuttle
#

The problem is that wooting currently only has two settings for mod-tap: JIT and Not-JIT. We need a 3rd option that is the opposite of JIT.

With JIT, all keys that are currently waiting on a timer have their timer "Completed" by the activation of a non-timed key.
We need all keys that are currently waiting on a timer to have their timer cancled by the activation of a non-timed key.

Assume you have 2 mod tap keys on a 200ms timer. These keys will be called "A" and "B".
key a is pressed: add a to stack
key z is pressed: purge stack -> output a -> output z
key a is released: Do nothing

key a is pressed: add a to stack
key b is pressed: add b to stack
key x is pressed: purge stack -> output a -> output b -> output z

In practice this can add some awkwardness which gets fiddly, for example if you press and hold a mod-tap key then press and hold a modifier before the timer ends you output the letters instead of combining the modifiers. You can add an exception for modifiers but honestly its not necessary...

pure folio
#

you guys should try this out

obsidian shuttle
#

Doesn't work, this new option causes the hold key to be pressed. If I turn it on and try to type f+a as fast as I can so that I clearly press A long before I release f then I get modKey+a instead of "fa"

obsidian shuttle
#

Really happy to see an attempt though! ❤️

surreal stream
#

good to see progress, I will try later

obsidian shuttle
#

WOO!!! @pure folio beta.3 seems to work!

terse olive
modern slate
proud grove
obsidian shuttle
#

@terse olive @modern slate yes, I updated to firmware 2.13.0-beta.3 along with wootility 5.3.0 beta.2, and combined it seems to be working. I have had a mod-tap key on my f key for about a week now and I have not had any trouble typing.

#

Today I am extending to have mod taps on werasdfjkl; and so far so good (That was typed with those mod keys)

#

Next we need to push for more than 4 layers (I would like to have one layer fo reach home row key)

obsidian shuttle
#

Now that I have more mod tap keys, I was seeing some awkward type-os

This was likely related to how deep the travel on this keyboard is and my typing style, I have only previously used so many mod taps with low profile keycaps so perhaps it takes me a LONG time to release the key.

I enabled rapid trigger and I am seeing very good results

blazing crystal
#

Oh, it looks like I missed some of the updates during the holiday season. I am going to try the beta this evening. I was thinking that the complexity is in the activation point. That's not something other keyboards have.