TMR Sensors

[tiny stream]

I think Wooting should move on from HE sensor technology and try to make new models of their boards with TMR technology -- yes TMR is harder to manufacture but it is basically better in every way compared to HE. If Wooting is able to produce TMR by themselves then they will be able to capture a lot of market shares as there is only one brand that is currently producing TMR sensor boards: Monsgeek. Hope the Wooting team will take my feedback into consideration.

[lethal harbor]

If tmr sensors are good enough wooting will make switch

[tiny stream]

As i said, tmr is better than he in almost every way

[lethal harbor]

If they were good enough wooting would use them already

[tiny stream]

As I have said, they are harder to manufacture, so it most likely isnt a matter of if they are good enough (they definitely are), Wooting maybe may not have the ability to produce it atm

After all, they have shown that they can go through manufacturing problems with their Wooting 80HE project

[winter cedar]

Yeah I'd love to have the option for TMR switches in a Wooting KB

[tulip drum]

we wouldnt manufacture them. just like HE sensors a company specializing in making such components would make them.

[tulip drum]

the switches are the same as for HE sensors

[tiny stream]

Oh I guess I was shortsighted, I thought you guys manufacture your own parts

[tulip drum]

afaik no keyboard company manufacturers their own SMD components

at best they collab with a switch manufacturer on switches.

cases and keycaps are made by us though (as is the case for pretty much most other keyboard vendors that do it themselves)

[winter cedar]

as in they are compatible on Wooting boards and work?

[tulip drum]

with magneto based keyboards the switch is always 2 parts. 1 is the sensor which is HE or TMR and stays fixed on the pcb. that sensor just detects the magnet position/movement. the second part is the magnetic "switch" which for both HE and TMR just moves a magnet up and down in the same way.

[winter cedar]

So if customers wanted a Wooting TMR keyboard, we have to wait for the Module like the 80HE to be fitted with TMR sensors on the PCB, and then a company to make the TMR Switches e.g. Gateron with a 3.5mm travel distance. Is that the waiting sequence?

A quote from something I read on reddit:

"TMR has more to do with the sensors on the PCB than the switch itself which is just a magnet moving up and down with your keypress to change the magnetic field an above the sensor. In fact the exact same Hall Effect “magnetic switches” from Wooting type Hall Effect keyboards can be used with this particular TMR keyboard. TMR sensors however uses much less power (5-10 times less) than Hall Effect sensors, so it makes them more viable for higher frequency polling in wireless keyboards since they won’t drain the battery as fast. Also TMR sensors can detect smaller changes in the magnetic field so they are more accurate than Hall Effect sensors. And finally, TMR sensors are not affected by temperature as much as Hall Effect switches, so they in theory should give more precise and consistent responses than Hall Effect switches. TMR switches in keyboards are better in every way than Hall Effect sensors other than I think they are more expensive to make since it requires the manufacturing of a very think insulating film between 2 ferromagnetic substances for the tunneling of electrons to occur."

What's the price difference between a single HE sensor on a PCB vs a single TMR sensor on the same PCB? Twice as expensive? 3x? 4x?

[lethal harbor]

Watch last wooting livestream

[winter cedar]

Ty

[lethal harbor]

You will have explanation

I mean both livestreams from yesterday

Calder should explain few times why tmr currently is a bad idea

[tulip drum]

no youd just need to have a TMR pcb.... the switches are the same

or well the traditional switch part. magneto and optical keyboards usually dont have 1 component be the switch but 2 parts. 1 on the pcb and one that clips in the switch plate

[winter cedar]

Up until the 29m mark of the of the one live stream Calder rants about latency and .00005mm and blowing on the keys at that actuation point causing key activation (stiffer spring solution?) etc. which is really the lesser point of TMR technology. From what I gathered on the net, and very limited hands on experience (HE non Wooting Vs Optical), it's key consistency that is the strength of TMR, or as some have called it precision.

A response from Wooting or others about the results, testing methodology, and anything else about this video's validity would help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESdu3D9R2xs

[tulip drum]

the main issue is that those videos dont evaluate a technology per se but the entire product. so firmware difference due to compleexity increases or simplification can play a role, overall construction can play a role, switch choice and such.

If you wanted to just evaluate TMR vs HE vs Optical vs Inductive youd need 1 firmware, 1 case, 1 topplate, 1 set of switches and basically only change the sensors on the pcb.

given the null point drift TMR can have theyd be less consistent long term btw unless you constantly recalibrate the 0 point AND the "bottom out" point

ignoring that drift TMR and HE should perform the same consistency wise.

[lethal harbor]

Did you watch entire livestream like i said? First and 2nd part?

[winter cedar]

The first one which was the latest posted was 10+ min of issues.. ran it on 2x speed.. bailed out.. watched another one up until around the 29m mark.. did you see my post about Calder ranting?

Ok.. rechecking the latest video and it looks like he starts talking about TMR sensors.. could of told me the time mark to start watching it at, lol

[lethal harbor]

Well didnt know where it was

[winter cedar]

Thanks for making me aware of it, cheers!