#The Ugly, the Bad and the Good (60HE v2, the split).

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

gritty rock
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The Ugly:

  • A non-optional split space forces customers to commit to a layout before knowing whether they’ll actually like it. This will discourage most from even trying the option and could lead to unnecessary returns. It also doubles the number of SKUs from two to four. In my opinion, this isn’t the right approach for a niche layout like split space. Customers should be able to try it without making a hard commitment.

While no solution is perfect, I believe the best path forward is to release only the standard 60HE v2 (non-split) for now and introduce an optional split space module later, once the PCBA has been redesigned to support it.

The Bad:

  • The 2.75 - 1.25 - 2.25 split doesn’t align with the natural typing position of the hands. This leaves the right thumb with limited room to comfortably hit the right spacebar, negatively impacting overall ergonomics. The 2.25 - 1.25 - 2.75 split offers better balance and usability for both thumbs, which is why it has been the more conventional choice.

  • When gaming, users typically shift their hand 1U to the left for WASD. With a 2.75U spacebar, that offset makes it harder to reach the middle 1.25U key. This isn’t an issue with a narrower 2.25U spacebar.

A minor PCBA redesign would be needed, but as a split space user, I believe it’s necessary. This could have been avoided with a bit of research or even just asking around. I’m quite certain no long-time split space user would recommend the current layout.

That said, I’m glad to see that the previously strict keycap compatibility constraint has loosened. A year ago, I suggested a 64% layout, and one of the main arguments against it was the need for an uncommon 2U Shift. Pointing out that Numpad 0 could be used instead wasn’t enough. Now, with concave Shifts being suggested (despite requiring a separate keycap set, unlike the included Numpad 0) in place of convex spacebars, it gives me hope we may still see a 64% module from Woot in the future.
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wchb.png
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The Good:

  • This has been on my mind for a while, and now more than ever, it makes the most sense: Separate the prebuilts and modules, allowing each to better serve their respective audiences. The prebuilts are designed for the average user (someone who at most might swap out their switches or case) while the modules cater to enthusiasts. They could offer multi-layout support (split space, split backspace, 64%, Tsangan), a daughterboard, and broader case compatibility (gummy), while costing only slightly less than the prebuilts.

This kind of product lineup makes a lot of sense to me. Prebuilts can offer plug-and-play performance right out of the box, and the modules can appeal to enthusiasts who want full customization without compromising on performance, even if that means spending a bit more. An average full module build has always cost significantly more than a prebuilt, so a modest price increase for the added features seems entirely fair.

Lastly, for €1 a month and under NDA, I’d be happy to offer my feedback and ideas on products during the early stages of development, rather than the later stages as it seems to be now and as was the case with the 80HE. I believe an outside perspective could offer meaningful insight and potentially help out quite a bit. Yes, this is serious.

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From #1373328048870523032 message:

A 64% could still happen and it would make a lot of sense. Woot has always prioritized keycap availability and ergonomics but with the release of the 60HE v2 (split), that doesn’t seem to be a limiting factor anymore.

  • The 60HE v2’s split requiring a 2.25U and 2.75U keycap means a single keycap set alone isn’t enough to support it. A 64% with the same split doesn’t have that issue, since it doesn’t already use those Shift sizes. Instead, it uses a 2U Shift (which can be replaced by Numpad 0).

  • If Woot is okay with the current 60HE v2 split making the right Spacebar uncomfortable to use for many, then a 64% having a smaller RShift (and LShift for ISO) shouldn’t be a problem either.

  • From a gaming standpoint, a 64% is more comfortable to use than a 60% because its Shift row is offset 0.25U to the left, which lines it up better with the rows above, improving ergonomics for the left hand.

  • The biggest plus of a 64% for some might be that it is compatible with the big knob. So you can either keep the arrow keys or go with the big knob.

  • Since most people remap the extra Spacebar to Backspace anyway, going with a split Backspace would be ideal. That way, users don’t need to buy two sets of stabilizers just to swap them out. On a 60%, you’d need both split Backspace and split RShift to achieve that.
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The Ugly, the Bad and the Good (60HE v2, the split).

gritty rock
gritty rock
noble zinc
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HE knob when

fossil prawn
quaint garden
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7u spacebar when

sharp slate
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All of these critiques make sense. Plus, I prefer the symmetry of left space being the same as left shift and right space being the same as right shift.

That last image got me thinking. I'd love a version of the 60HE with arrow keys and split backspace (and ideally stepped caps) in addition to split spacebar, but that might be a little too niche lol. Something like the image below, minus the split left shift.

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(Couldn't find a 60% keyboard with stepped caps, arrow keys, split backspace, AND split spacebar.)

x6JYmId.jpg
somber wasp
sharp slate
wicked light
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icl ur layout would be so good

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but how would it looks on iso also with big space key

empty parcel
gritty rock
# sharp slate All of these critiques make sense. Plus, I prefer the symmetry of left space bei...

Oh, yeah. I never noticed that.

A 64% from Woot could still happen and it would make a lot of sense. They’ve always prioritized keycap availability and ergonomics but with the release of the 60HE v2 (split), that doesn’t seem to be a limiting factor anymore.

  • The 60HE v2’s split requiring a 2.25U and 2.75U keycap means a single keycap set alone isn’t enough to support it. A 64% with the same split doesn’t have that issue, since it doesn’t already use those Shift sizes. Instead, it uses a 2U Shift (which can be replaced by Numpad 0).

  • If Woot is okay with the current 60HE v2 split making the right Spacebar uncomfortable to use for many, then a 64% having a smaller RShift (and LShift for ISO) shouldn’t be a problem either.

  • From a gaming standpoint, a 64% is more comfortable to use than a 60% because its Shift row is offset 0.25U to the left, which lines it up better with the rows above, improving ergonomics for the left hand.

  • The biggest plus of a 64% for some might be that it is compatible with the big knob. So you can either keep the arrow keys or go with the big knob.

  • Since most people remap the extra Spacebar to Backspace anyway, going with a split Backspace would be ideal. That way, users don’t need to buy two sets of stabilizers just to swap them out. On a 60%, you’d need both split Backspace and split RShift to achieve that.

gritty rock
sharp slate
gritty rock
wicked light
sharp slate
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Here's a layout for someone who wants stepped caps, split backspace, split spacebar, arrow keys, AND Tsangan (smaller winkey, less likely to press it by mistake). I don't think I've ever seen a keyboard with this layout.

firefox_LCWVYbFE0U.png
gritty rock
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👀👀

ble.png
sharp slate
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Well memed.

gritty rock
gritty rock
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Was 64% considered when designing the 60HE v2 (split)? The benefits seem to outweigh its con quite heavily. Improved ergonomics for gaming (offset Shift row), arrow keys (appealing to many 65% enjoyers as well), a single keycap set being enough to support the whole board (including the split, unlike the 60HE v2 split) and lastly, BIG KNOB support!

noble zinc
gritty rock
noble zinc
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If it was 64% I would’ve bought it 0 hesitation

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But I’m not sure about this split spacebar

mental ruin
# gritty rock 🎛️

Looks nice, i just see there a smaller Ergonomic Problem.

On the Right Side you want a Rotary dial (Knob)?

Would the Knob be flat, cuz if you try it on your self, raise few times the Pinky and Reach to the Return (Enter Key), you will feel Immediately a slight Burn, cuz we are not used, to raise the pinky so high. I know from my Experience, that the Pinky is the weakest Finger of all. If it would be like a Touch Rotary Dial, then i dont see problems.

But i love the Split Spacebar and the FN Key in the Middle, would be nice, if you try to get the left Spacebar in 1.5U cuz wie don't use more space on the Left side, Then you could press maybe 2 FN Keys in the Middle. Like the Japanese HHKB Boards if you know them. Cuz then witch a lighter stretch with the Thumb you could make 2 Keys more in between the Spacebar. Instead of 1.

I use mainly for working Ergonomic Keyboards ( Dygma Define, Kineses Advantage and the Glove 80), i love normal keebs for Gaming, but the rest of the time work oder writing E-Mails i use Ergo style Keyboards.

Really like your Idea, should be no Critic oder something, respect ❤️ Good work

gritty rock
# mental ruin Looks nice, i just see there a smaller Ergonomic Problem. On the Right Side yo...

That’s a good point. The knob doesn’t seem to be taller than the keycaps next to it though. I press the far left side of enter with my pinky so the knob having gaps in all corners would be kind of nice I reckon.

Splitting the spacebar up in more keys would be nice but also requires a bit more getting used to. I think the triple split is a good balance (since most people don’t need to get used to it at all as they already press space on either side rather than the middle).

Ergo would be endgame for gaming as well but it’s so niche sadly. ROG is doing a split gaming board at least, that’ll be kinda nice to try. 😌

mental ruin
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If the height is like these, then its fine, sometime you forget how used our finger are.

If its a bit higher its no problem, but if its to high, this hurts so much few days or everytime you use it.

I like your ideas really 🙂

But imagine a Split Keyboard like Dygma , for Gaming and Ergonomic, this would be the best Keyboard from Both worlds.. Something like the Dygma Raise, with the switches, not 1:1 copy. With 2-3 Extra Thumbkeys. If it would cost 1k i would buy it instant. Cuz for work and gaming i switch keyboards, so i would have 1 Keyboard for all. And many Devs, switch keyboards for gaming and coding.

mental ruin
# gritty rock

This looks so damn sexy, my i want to have complex kicks 😂

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If you would say, you have the fastest Keyboard, with split, for more space on the table, you put the right half away, its 8k Poling Rate, this switches, this would be fire! 🔥 And belive me, also gamers would take it. Imagine, you say to a gamer, look i split your 60% or 80% keyboard to half.

inland nebula
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I won't use the v2 as it is.... Split space..really? Of all the options this is what you go for. People use split backspace and right shift all the time, NEVER have I build, or been requested to build a split space bar. Would "like" south facing switches too as so many cap manufacturers have moved to this .

thick anchor
inland nebula
thick anchor
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It's not even really an issue for most MX switches nowadays

gritty rock
# mental ruin If the height is like these, then its fine, sometime you forget how used our fin...

I would love a splittable GH60-compatible board. You could use it while attached, either with a single non-split plate or just in a GH60 case, or use it split with a split plate and case. When split, the right side would connect to the left side wirelessly as soon as it’s detached, with the right side powered by a battery. When you’re done using it in split form, you would attach the two sides together again, and the right side would automatically charge. Throughout all of this, the left side stays plugged in, and all data is sent over the USB-C cable. The left side simply acts as a receiver for the right side when detached.

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The right side should have a toggle/button as well to turn it off manually.

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Sorry for the late ass reply, thread closed so never saw the noti :/

gritty rock
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Pleasee.. 😭😭

gritty rock
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A 64% wasn’t considered, at all. Its con of having a smaller (unergonomic) Right Shift outweighs all its pros, apparently. Yet, for split space, ergonomics were thrown out of the window. 😃👍

(from Friday’s stream)

gritty rock
clever mist
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I completely agree with having the smaller spacebar on the left. It honestly shocks me that they didn't go with that layout in the first place. I really, really hope they listen for any future split spacebar keyboards, since it doesn't seem like they're going to for this one

sharp slate
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Did Wooting ever explain why they put the longer spacebar on the left?