#[Feature Request] Configuring tap-hold behavior for Mod-Tap keys

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

ionic cave
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Hello! I'm coming from qmk. I'm a heavy home-row mod user, and I'd like to configure the mod-tap hold behavior.

For reference, here are the qmk docs https://docs.qmk.fm/tap_hold#permissive-hold

Essentially, I would like to configure the hold behavior to only ever trigger after the hold duration (which I believe is 200ms by default). I believe the default behavior in wootility is similar to "Permissive Hold" from the qmk docs. I poked around wootility, but I didn't see any options for it, but let me know if I missed it!

I would looooove if this were possible in wootility. Let me know if you need any other information from me!

Thanks in advance :]

Tap-Hold Configuration Options | QMK Firmware

Documentation for QMK Firmware

glacial cloak
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Bump!

flat mantle
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Up up

proper berry
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bump

dark pulsar
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I wanted to try out homerow mods as well. This note in the wootility when setting things up kind killed it for me The hold key is immediately activated when it's a modifier key and combined with another key. Unless the other key is also a Mod Tap key

I was attempting to assign super to the a key if held and immediatly found that trying to type at my normal speed created a bunch of false super inputs. EG when typing clear into a terminal I just get cler simply because E must have still been held down once a was pressed. It would be super helpful to be able to turn off this default behavior.

In this current state the feature is kinda unusable for the use as home row mod keys.

proper berry
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this was implemented already so your feedback is moot

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though it turns out homerow mods are impossible to use regardless for me anyway haha

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because rolls are so common, even with a short tapping term I end up inputting keys the wrong way around

dark pulsar
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Thank you. Interesting, I am currently using the web based wootility. I take it I need to use the stand alone version to get this functionality

proper berry
dark pulsar
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ooo thanks!

proper berry
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for me even with this additional configuration it's impossible to use homerow mods, let's say in the word exertion, all keys except X are on the homerow for me and inputting them back to back as a roll makes me fuck up the entire word

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there's just no configuration that wouldn't accidentally make you type things wrong, given sufficient speed

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but that's beside the point :>

dark pulsar
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yeah, I hear you. welp I am going to give it a try and see how it goes! thank you again!

dark pulsar
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Ah I see what you mean. specific words like clear and what end up coming out as clera and whta. The rolling causes them to be registered backwards. To adjust one needs to type slightly slower and to be sure to fully release the previous key.

Played with altering the actuation point, does not seem to have a noticeable effect. 🤷 oh well. It is a beta feature after all. I can hope it improves as time goes on.

proper berry
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yeah, I don't think it's a configuration issue, it's just a homerow mods issue. either you learn to type in a way that doesn't result in these artifacts (annoying) or you implement a massive amount of logic into the system

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on custom firmware like QMK there's stuff like "only do the mod action if the modifier and the tapped key are on different hands" which fixes issues with one-hand rolls, but then you still have issues with common two-letter diphthongs that span two hands

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I'm not sure it's possible to make homerow mods work super well no matter how much logic and configuration you implement, at the end of the day the firmware has to wait until you release the key to decide whether it was held or tapped, and that means any key you press in the meantime that is not subject to the same rules is input before the first one...

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then there's stuff like "only do the hold action if the user isn't typing actively" which means you can't use homerow mods immediately after typing, which is also annoying

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would need a certain "cooldown" which I think would just disturb workflow

dark pulsar
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It would make sense to me to buffer in a queue based upon when key down happened when these things are enabled. I have not written firmware for a keyboard myself, this may be a naive take. My thought is if I was enabling home row mods that profile is not for gaming and the increased input latency would not be noticed while coding or writing a doc

proper berry
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yeah, that's one option, and is probably doable in some shape or form, but I don't think it would feel good as a user to type with 100+ms of delay on everything

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one idea I saw was moving them from the home row to the bottom row, keys like zxcv are not commonly used in words so it's less likely to disturb normal typing, but then again it puts the mods to a less convenient row, negating much of the benefit of homerow mods (namely no finger contortion)

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perhaps the top row would help too

dark pulsar
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I wanted to see if I could get used to it. I am a hyperland user and am going to be building a Chocofi split keyboard soon. Wanted to see if you really can be efficient with a 36 key layout, and do a fun build too.

Folks seem to like homerow mods and the layers they have configured, wanted to give it a try. Right now this feature on either my HE 80 or Leeker edition is not quite there just yet. And since I am just dipping my toes into this sort of workflow/configuration, I do not know if it is an issue when using another firmware like QMK.

I should try this on the HE 60 though just for arrow keys or something. May be super useful in that form factor.

proper berry
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another hyprland user here haha

dark pulsar
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I used to use awsome wm for a very very long time. Ever since pretty much everything switched to wayland I was hunting for a new window manager. Was using sway for a bit, even tried out Pop OS's tiling functionality. Neither of them worked in a way I would prefer to use or configure. Hyperland has been pretty darn awesome to use so far. Been daily driving it for about 6 months now, do not think I will be switching to anything else for a while.

proper berry
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yeah, it's super polished and feature-rich, just shame the developer gives it such a bad rep

dark pulsar
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I did not know there was any drama. Have not followed development too closely.

On a side note, I do not know if there is an amount of brain rot I have subjected myself to either, but whenever I use a distro that is all put together (ubuntu, pop os, mint, etc) for you I somehow break it. When I build things to my own liking in a distro like arch or gentoo I seem to not break it and ultimately have a stable system, or I could just be a masochist in denial.