ANSISO Keyboard Layout

[scarlet plaza]

As a fellow Dutchie it would be great if we could get the ANSISO keyboard layout (ANSI shift, ISO enter; see pic).

[stable galleon]

i still dont know how dutch people can use that layout

[scarlet plaza]

Best of both worlds, imho 😁
Especially for programming, where having the \ | key somewhat close is useful, while also having a big enter and shift key, so you don't fat finger.

[rich coyote]

Probably too niche, I'm a dutchie too but can't remember using this layout ever.

[scarlet plaza]

Really? They seem to be quite common here. In the past I've never actively cared for keyboard layouts, but I noticed that most keyboards I've had (which, to be fair, where mostly cheap office keyboards) where ANSISO, with a few ANSI's sprinkled in.

That being said, I will admit that just the Netherlands is not a big market. Altough with how perpetually online and into gaming everyone here is, I would guess it would be more popular than something like ISO Nordic. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[rich coyote]

Wouldn't a JIS keyboard fit what you want? closest to it. Backspace is not long though

I mean you can change the layout of the keys yourself.

Oh thats only 80he

[stable galleon]

yeah but then right shift is shorter, backspace is split, extra key on the right side of space

[rich coyote]

normal wooting two doesnt have JIS

So you don't have a numpad

[stable galleon]

im glad i got my gf to change from the abomination she used before (the dutch ansi+iso mix) to just iso

[scarlet plaza]

JIS is close, but has it's own set of "issues" (for me at least :p) and, like you said, it's not available for the two.

[deft oar]

Abomination still (sorry, couldn't resist) 😄

[stable galleon]

its ok to be wrong dw

[scarlet plaza]

Gotta admit, if I'd had to choose between ANSI and ISO, I would pick ANSI in a heartbeat. The shift being that small just seems... wrong. 😁

[stable galleon]

thats what my gf said until i remapped \ to shift and she was happy

[deft oar]

That's also my only gripe with ISO

[scarlet plaza]

hmm, that could've been a bandaid solution, were it not that I need that key pretty often.
That being said, does it not basically makes it a ANSISO keyboard, but worse? Since you are now missing a key (which, fair enough, is one a lot of people won't use very often) and have a split shift key.
imo this makes it even worse of an abomination xD

[stable galleon]

works for her ¯_(ツ)_/¯

and she can get the key back whenver she wants

there might even be keycaps that make a long shift out of iso shift and its key next door

[scarlet plaza]

yeah, from what I've read those seem to exist, however sadly I require the \ and (more often) | key. So sadly that wouldn't work for me :/

[stable galleon]

why? you still have one

just next to enter

the us layout on ISO has 2 \| keys

one next to left shift and one next to enter

[scarlet plaza]

I don't see it here?https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0013/1383/3071/products/W2HE-UK-PBT_99271a9d-9b01-45ad-92a1-fe1eef3013d9.jpg?v=1678286426

[stable galleon]

because thats a british layout

it also doesnt have '" and ;: at the same spots

oh no they do have ;: at the right spot but not the quotes

[scarlet plaza]

the two HE only has these options

[stable galleon]

yes youd have to get US iso caps yourself. they arent all too common

or get ansi keycaps and iso caps and make the set yourself

and yes im aware both are not ideal solutions

[scarlet plaza]

it looks like the key next to the enter would contain 4 characters? ~ # | and \

[stable galleon]

nope only \|

at least if you use the US layout

a lot of sets with us like to reuse the UK cap for that spot but i cant figure out why. i use iso US on both macos and windows and i dont have ~ and # on that key on either

since they are 2 separate keys with ~ being shift + ` and # being shift + 3

[scarlet plaza]

hmm, so ISO layout with US International keyset?

[stable galleon]

thats would be the most universal solution

youd basically never be bound to specific keyboard vendors anymore if you just relearn the slight change of left shift

[scarlet plaza]

Well, ANSI seems common enough and I think I would prefer that over the small shift still, although the near perfect solution would be the ANSI keycap that would fit over ISO shift + \| and using US international

[stable galleon]

yes especially since you can just remap the keys freely and thus make it act like just shift

[scarlet plaza]

I guess the hardest part now would be finding that keycap :p. Can't imagine it will be that common :/

[stable galleon]

they arent common

i wish they were

[scarlet plaza]

Any way you guys would be able to sell those in the shop? 😜

[stable galleon]

prob not anytime soon given the low demand and cost involved in making a custom mould and such

[scarlet plaza]

yeah, figured as much

ah well, I might try and find those keycaps. Worst case scenario I'm already somewhat used to ANSI. So might pick that one. That would probably be the cheapest solution :p

[stable galleon]

yep

in both cases its really just a slight adjustment in either finding the cap or muscle memory of enter & \|

[scarlet plaza]

Yeah, ANSI is pretty common for laptop keyboards here, so I'm already somewhat used to it. However, if I find those keycaps after getting an ANSI I'd have to buy a new ISO again xD

[stable galleon]

or just stay with ansi

[scarlet plaza]

Either way, I appreciate the support. And who knows, maybe in the future 😉

[wild raven]

they're fairly common in the Czech Republic too, it surprised me how rare it is after I started researching what keyboard to get next, my 5 year old cheap membrane doesn't cut it anymore and the right arrow is starting to get stuck (too much racing haha)

I wanted a Wooting at some point but I don't wanna give up my long shift (useful while gaming, I hit it near the middle) nor my large enter (I'm used to hitting it near the top with my pinkie)

and just a thought, but wouldn't buying the ISO Wooting and putting a switch only in the shift place be sufficient? well, finding keycaps with Czech accented letters and correct symbol layouts is yet another problem for me, I might have to get a generic keyboard but I was looking for an analog one as I'm accustomed to playing Trackmania on keyboard and having analog input there would be nice but relearning the game on a gamepad takes too long (not to mention hands get sweaty more quickly holding one)

[wild raven]

for reference, 53/161 keyboards here are "2 row enter, long shift" - and it's hard to judge if their listings are entirely correct but it's accurate as a rough estimation how common they are here https://www.czc.cz/standardni-klavesnice-gaming/produkty?enter=dvouradkovy&levy-shift=dlouhy

[scarlet plaza]

I thought I read somewhere that the Czechs used ANSISO, but I couldn't find the source anymore. Good to know I wasn't making that up.

[wild raven]

yeah, for \ I am used to altgr+Q, same with | which is altgr+W

I don't even need \ often as a Linux user

that extra key always annoyed me on laptop, I didn't know it's normal xD

[scarlet plaza]

Well, the key seems to still be there on the keyboards in the link, next to the enter.

and by extra key I assume you mean the \| next to the left shift, which is only there on ISO

[wild raven]

yes, but you still need altgr (+ shift if you want |)

by default it's umlaut

or is it? might not be the case on windows actually

[scarlet plaza]

ah, I guess that has to do with the diacritics in your language. That is handled by software based on your keyboard language that you can set in Windows and Linux

That is separate of the keyboard layout

For instance, here in the Netherlands we also have umlauts etc. however these are done by using "dead keys": hitting the " key doesnt type " immediatly, instead it will wait until you hit another key like e resulting in ë.

[wild raven]

same

[wild raven]

need to press that key twice for umlaut to write by itself

[scarlet plaza]

This all done with software though, since I personally hate these dead keys I set my keyboard language in windows to US instead of US-international, so I dont have that behaviour. This doesn't change anything about my actual keyboard tho

[wild raven]

I wonder if there's some regular mechanical keyboard with only arrows being analog as that's the thing what I'd really like

I haven't followed the market at all

I know Wooting from a professional Trackmania player Kappa (also Czech btw) who was trying it some years ago, not sure he still uses it but a popular figure Wirtual does iirc

[wild raven]

oh man, I'm too used to the Czech layout, the qwertz one xD

[sick latch]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout#Physical,_visual,_and_functional_layouts

[wild raven]

we use accented letters in Czech too often, I don't wanna use an English layout

[scarlet plaza]

Yep, exactly
This guy also made a good video about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBQvN03i4-4

[sick latch]

physical layout is not same as functional layout (which you can change in your OS)...

[wild raven]

I am well aware, why are you saying that?

[sick latch]

so your only choice you really need to make is if you want a big ENTER key or not... ANSİ vs İSO layout

[scarlet plaza]

if you mean using QWETZ of QWERTY, you can just flip the Z and Y key caps and change the language of the keyboard

[sick latch]

the rest is just localisation

[wild raven]

I know how to switch keycaps yes

I just know that if I'm missing czech labels on keys I will keep forgetting places of things

[scarlet plaza]

Not entirely true, since ISO has the small shift big enter, while ANSI has it the other way around. While ANSISO has big enter AND big shift

[sick latch]

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wepc.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2022%2F02%2FANSI-vs-ISO-alt-and-backslash-big-1536x1440.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=53105466316d9afa8b0cba917e7800c1e6c471ebcb50a3fda4647e414664a753&ipo=images

[wild raven]

our numrow looks as follows: ; + ě š č ř ž ý á í é = '

[scarlet plaza]

You'll have to find keycaps with the czech language in mind for that

[sick latch]

also keep in mind the key caps have different slwes depending on the row they are meant for...

[scarlet plaza]

ANSISO (what this thread is about):

[wild raven]

that's hard itself... and then ansiso compatible pack, lol

[sick latch]

İt all boils down to your personal prefence İNHO

[wild raven]

I spent hours and hours searching

my options

[sick latch]

Dont know if wooting provides a Czech localisation option for the key caps...

[wild raven]

no it doesn't

[scarlet plaza]

as mentioned earlier in this thread, this could be remedied by getting an ISO layout, overwriting the left \| key to shift and getting a shift key cap that fit on both the ISO shift key and the left \| key. However, I have yet to find that keycap anywhere

[wild raven]

not for the full size I'd want at least

[sick latch]

but all those localisation options they provide are for one type only...

[wild raven]

some 3d printer project may exist but I'm not getting a 3d printer just for this xD

[scarlet plaza]

it looks like places like Etsy and the likes sell Czech keycaps

[wild raven]

yes someone suggested Etsy for Czech keycaps

but I found either ISO or ANSI, not combined

[scarlet plaza]

I mean, first obstacle would be finding a mechanical analog ANSISO keyboard. Which is the reason I made this feedback thread :p

[wild raven]

indeed

[scarlet plaza]

I've seen people on etsy sell keycaps that contain both the ISO and ANSI layout in one. Or if they sell the separately you could try and contact the seller and ask if they could send the ISO enter and ANSI shift

[wild raven]

I mean if I only want a mechanical ANSISO keyboard I can very likely get 1 in our stores but I was looking into Wooting for analog input in my racing game

• Linux compatible software

there's analog Razer... but... Razer...

[scarlet plaza]

meant to say analog, not mechanical. But you're right

[wild raven]

and it's not even ANSISO yeah

[scarlet plaza]

As far as I'm aware of there isn't a single ANSISO analog keyboard on the market. Since Wooting is a Dutch company and ANSISO is pretty common here I was hoping they would have them, but thusfar no luck

[wild raven]

that's even crazier they don't have your layout then since it's their home country

layout, keycaps, yeah, before that other guy comes to explain again

[scarlet plaza]

eh, I get it. Not a big market and facilitating this layout costs money. So it makes economic sense why it's not available

[wild raven]

I mean at least Dutch keys for ISO :)

but also when ANSISO isn't so rare around there too, it's a shame

[wild raven]

brings me back to this idea, I can't believe it hasn't been made yet

[scarlet plaza]

Most people here are also content with ANSI. I have never seen an ISO layout here and I'd say about a 50/50 split between ANSI and ANSISO

[wild raven]

so many keyboards calling themselves gaming but they're forgetting about racing games where you're likely to want analog steering 😂

[scarlet plaza]

analog keyboard are pretty new afaik. Wooting was one of the first I believe. Or at least one that became mainstream

[wild raven]

just an attempt at slander

and what took big companies so long to look into making analog buttons on keyboards

lol, I just don't want to get a new keyboard now and in 1 year see some that checks all my boxes... I'm annoyed that I have such specific needs

[wild raven]

perhaps it's time to rehabit myself to ANSI, even if I rebind that extra key to be shift I can imagine getting annoyed when I hit between "the shifts" during gaming

enter is hardly used during gaming, you could also rebind that key above enter to act as enter but that would make me unable to use its umlaut. but getting used to it shouldn't be much of an issue