80HE Value comparison

[dim cairn]

Store values are estimated. Case and Module excluded.

80HE ABS - $200
1x Included Switches - $45
1x Included Keycaps - $30
1x Switch Pack 90 - $50
Total store value: $125

80HE Zinc Alloy - $300
1x Included Switches - $45
1x Included Keycaps - $30
1x Switch Pack 90 - $50
1x Travel Case - $35
Total store value: $160

80HE Module - $185
1x Switch Pack 90 - $50
1x Travel Case - $35
Total store value: $35

With that in mind, what would happen if the travel case and cases available for the Module were to be sold separately? It’s either vague exclusivity that’s being sold or it’s decoy pricing with a twist. 😂 I don’t yet understand the thought process behind this but I don’t doubt it’ll result in reasonably unhappy customers. 😬

Point in short: The people who’d consider the Module by itself wouldn’t go for it or go for it but with regret later as the PCR ABS offers $90 more in store value while being $15 more.

The only reason to get the Module would be for the travel case and or case options exclusive to the Module. If the travel case and cases will be sold separately it’d be way better value to get the PCR ABS and a case for it separately. If people want the Module with Switches and Keycaps they’d pay $30(?) more than they would for the PCR ABS, essentially just buying the travel case outright.

[placid plaza]

I still have absolutely no idea what you mean by store value, so I'm just going to skip that...

The purpose of the module version is that people are not required to get our keycaps or switches. If they choose not to, then they can get the keyboard for $185/€205.

This is $15/€15 cheaper than the basic plastic prebuilt configuration, and it comes with a travel case that would otherwise cost $35/€40.

[dim cairn]

Then they get the keyboard without switches and keycaps for $185. If they pay $15 more they get the keyboard with switches, keycaps and an extra 90 switches worth $50.

Quite interesting how I was spot on with my estimation 😉

With store value I mean what it would cost to get without discounts, nothing. Just the base price of that item on the Wooting store.

[placid plaza]

I still don't understand the point you're trying to make though?

[dim cairn]

I’ve really explained it best I can. Again, I really think people will be upset, take my words as you wish.

[placid plaza]

Our PCBAs are our secret sauce, what nobody else can compete with. That's what people want, and they're going to have to pay for it. For the vast majority, the prebuilt is the best option. For a few, getting a module is better.

[dim cairn]

I disagree as I don’t really see it as a fair deal that people would make deliberately.

[livid fiber]

I genuinly don't understand what the problem is.

I'm planning on buying the module. I don't need keycaps or switches. Sounds like a good deal to me. I don't care about a travel case being an eclusive lmao

[placid plaza]

What about it isn't fair though? That for $15 more you can get it prebuilt with keycaps and switches included? That's not better for someone who already has keycaps and switches they want to use, it's still $15 more

[dim cairn]

2 sets of switches and keycaps*

[livid fiber]

It only makes sense that the prebuilt is a better deal because of economies of scale. No different than the current 60he and it's module.

[dim cairn]

It’s a really fair point and I’m not sure how it’s hard to understand. It’s the value each deal offers that’s drastically different. You get $90 worth more for $15.

[sand plover]

if you dont want switches(for instance) it is still cheaper to get the module, otherwise get the prebuild

am I missing something?

[placid plaza]

But those extra things may be worthless in value to some people, since they already have other stuff they intend to use

[dim cairn]

Not at all worthless, if someone doesn’t use a keyboard he doesn’t throw it out, he’d sell it or give it to a friend.

[livid fiber]

It's an extremely obtuse way to look at things. You could give me the keycaps for free and I still wouldn't use them. I don't care what value you think it is because to me they are worthless. You could sell the switches and keycaps for a dollar and I still wouldn't buy them because I already have some lol

[dim cairn]

A switch pack of 90 magnetic switches alone is worth a whole lot more than $15.

[sand plover]

mkay...

[dim cairn]

You do you man.

[livid fiber]

Then just buy the prebuilt if you think it's a good deal, I don't understand the problem?

[placid plaza]

As long as you're on board with the fact that this is a perspective you hold and not necessarily one that everyone shares, then all's well

Sounds like to you the best option is the prebuilt 🙂

[dim cairn]

I’m saying I think people will misunderstand what they’re getting and what the deal is.

[livid fiber]

There's logistic costs involved too, it's counter intuitive, but selling a batch of prebuilt in the same configuration is just cheaper than a bunch customized kits of modules.

Even if you as a customer went to source out those parts on your own and add the math it doesn't show the complete picture.

[dim cairn]

Wouldn’t have written all this if it was just for me. Will the fully built Module be $10 more by the way?

[dim cairn]

I don’t think the extra pack of switches that come with the prebuilt are in its box

and point is the Module alone, as that’s what I think will be the best selling if any.

[dim cairn]

Again:

[livid fiber]

I understand your point, I just disagree with it. It's literally no different than doing the math on the 60 prebuilt and module and yet the module is popular and no one has any issues missing out on store value of switches.

That's just me though. Happy with the module option for the 80 and I don't feel like am not getting my money's worth.

If you wanna complain about the layout though Im right there with you lmao

[dim cairn]

There was no option with $90 more store value. I agree to disagree.

The best bang for your buck is the best selling for a reason. I think most people wouldn’t choose such a “lesser” deal deliberately. But we’ll see.

Maybe you can say “I told you so.” and maybe I can say it, who knows.

[sand plover]

I want the Zinc case and the PCB, what do I choose ?

[dim cairn]

The Zinc prebuilt.

[livid fiber]

Yeah but when I go shopping am not gonna buy a commercial size jug of ketchup just because its slight cheaper per drop than a size that fits in my fridge's door.

[sand plover]

why ? i dont need switches nor keycaps and the prebuilt is more expensive

[dim cairn]

Because you get $125 more value buying the Zinc Prebuilt than the Module.

[dim cairn]

If it’s $90 worth I bet you most people would gladly pay $15 more.

[sand plover]

I understand that, but i dont need switches nor keycaps even if they are offered to me at 1/4 of their price

[livid fiber]

No because it's gonna go bad before I use it and I don't have the space to store it. What am I gonna do, sell the difference? At that point, I might as well just become a ketchup sales man.

[dim cairn]

Then go with the Module if you don’t care what it costs.

[dim cairn]

Most would gladly become a ketchup salesman if they could save a few bucks.

[sand plover]

as others said, its normal (from a logistic point of view ) to have better value in a combo pack

[livid fiber]

penny wise pound foolish

[sand plover]

hell, it's true even for beer

you buy a six pack, you get better value

[dim cairn]

exactly and you can enjoy them with your buddies. Just what I mean.

[livid fiber]

Yeah but if I only have a few bucks and just need 1 beer with my lunch, am not gonna buy a six pack.

Why stop there, why not get a 12 pack, a keg, a store, a factory, you can keep scaling up indefinitely to get it cheaper and cheaper. This is just not grounded in reality of both business and human psychology.

[sand plover]

yea but does that not mean that is disrespectful to the customer to also sell just a can of beer

[dim cairn]

Again, you wouldn’t but most would. Most care about every buck.

[livid fiber]

I think you are just projecting here.

Millions of people go to the pub and grab one beer man, are you seriously trying to argue a lot of people are buying kegs because of value lmao

[dim cairn]

Never have I said disrespectful, I said that I think some who purchase the Module do not understand the deal that’s offered and would’ve rather had the bang for your buck deal.

[dim cairn]

We’re talking about $15 bucks here, not kegs of beer lmao

[livid fiber]

For people buying luxury keyboards, $15 is not the end of the world.

Especially if like me and Thunder, they don't need switches and keycaps. yes I understand the prebuilt is better value on paper, but it's useless to me.

The money I save, however little, can go to other things.

[dim cairn]

Then you haven’t been in the 80HE channel. Most asked if it was below $200.

[livid fiber]

And am not gonna buy the prebuilt and then try and sell the keycaps and switches on the after market.

[dim cairn]

I already told you, if you don’t care about how much you spend then this doesn’t apply to you. I’m sure you’ll be happy with your Module order.

Without the campaign perk.

👍

[livid fiber]

But I do care how much I spend, that's why I am getting the module. Because it's cheaper than getting the prebuilt. Since the value of the prebuilt is on paper and store value, not real world value.

[dim cairn]

There’s a postcard of $5 with a golden rolex that you couldn’t care less for and a postcard for $4 with nothing. You’d pick the latter, most would not. That is my point.

[livid fiber]

So you are suggesting most people will spend more money for a prebuilt even though they don't have a use for the switches and keycaps just because it's a better deal? Might as well burn your money.

[dim cairn]

“not real world value” if you don’t know anyone who’d care for that then sure. Like I said that’s you in particular, many people aren’t like that.

[livid fiber]

If you are right, we are gonna see people flood the market with new wooting switches and keycaps.

[dim cairn]

Yes that is exactly what I’m saying. They share or sell their switches in doing so getting the keyboard for less.

[dim cairn]

Correct!

[livid fiber]

Then wooting's loss is your gain. I don't see the issue.

I highly doubt wooting is gonna structure their prices in a way that is gonna undermine their own business.

[dim cairn]

Why do people sell their old keyboard when switching to the 60HE? Because their old keyboard had value to someone.

[livid fiber]

Try and sell your wooting keycaps right now and tell me how that goes, whether you get the store value for them or not.

[dim cairn]

That’s literally what the 80HE PCR ABS deal is. 2x 90switches and keycaps.

[livid fiber]

And once more people try and do this, the price of them will plummet even more.

[dim cairn]

I sold my L45s for $20 and my old 60HE for $220

[dim cairn]

We shall see.

[livid fiber]

Due to demand I can sell my used 60 for more than I bought it for. Switches and keycaps not so much.

If I could, I would have bought some extra keycaps and switches with my module just to resell on the market, but it isn't worth my time.

[dim cairn]

Many who have a 60HE now would want to try out the Lekker V2 switches but on Wooting they’re $40, maybe there’s someone selling them second hand, oh there is?! for $15 what!!!

[dim cairn]

You value your time, that’s good.

[livid fiber]

Then you have a once in a life time opportunity to print money buy buying prebuilts and then selling them.

[dim cairn]

Just the switches will do fine. I’m sure you could buy many 80HE PCR ABS’ and start a Wooting shop with the bulk switches and 80HEs you’d have.

Maybe that’s worth your time.

[livid fiber]

I think this all sounds great on paper, but in theory it won't really work out how you think.

[dim cairn]

Oh it will, supply and demand my friend.

Wooting has a whole lot more demand than supply. If you didn’t know already. 😉

[livid fiber]

The keyboards yes. The switches? Not so much. Keycaps, even less so.

I have a business degree, I understand supply and demand well. There's way more to a market than just those 2 factors.

Esepcially when wooting themselves are gonna be flooding the market with extra switches and keycaps, they will be worth even less.

[dim cairn]

Keycaps are the hardest to sell sure, but the switches would sell like ice cream.

[dim cairn]

You’d know that those two factors matter most.

[dim cairn]

Again, all you’d have to make back is $15 and Wooting themselves sell the switches for $40.

[dim cairn]

Talking about the 80HE PCR ABS compared to the Module.

[livid fiber]

It will be a race to the bottom with you and a bunch of people trying to sell these switches and they will end up selling for less than 15

[dim cairn]

Oh no it wouldn’t. You overestimated how much supply there will be.

[livid fiber]

Tag me in the Fall and let me know how selling the switches went for you.

What I am saying, is that reselling these switches is not a sustainable business endevour. This is a one off, if it even works.

The fact that V2 switches are on the way is another reason the V1s wont be worth much. It's very clear to me that wooting is trying to get rid of old inventory.

[dim cairn]

Scalping 80HEs was a joke. If you look at other brands you see this has happened many times even with the 60HE.

[livid fiber]

Scalping prebuilt keyboards is easy. Am talking switches and keycaps.

I am fully aware of this, I literally told you my use 60 is worth more than a new 60.

[dim cairn]

They come with the V2s! That’s why I said the market is everyone with a 60HE that wants to try other, newer switches.

[livid fiber]

Can you tag me in where they said that? As far as I know they have never confirmed this.

[dim cairn]

Oh, sure. So V2s would be easy to sell but you just didn’t know they came with V2s?

Do I understand that correctly?

Or would V2s be hard to sell too? Mr.Businessman

[livid fiber]

Do you think this is some gotcha moment? lmao

I'm having a discussion with you on good faith, don't be like that.

Now show me where they confirmed 80s come with V2s

[dim cairn]

Your opinion was based on misinformation hence my question if you think V2s would them be easy to sell.

[livid fiber]

Easier than V1s, but the bar is on the floor, so not by much imo.

[dim cairn]

There’s room for jokes, it’s not political. At least I don’t think so.

[dim cairn]

Alright. We’ll end with that?

[livid fiber]

Show me where they confirmed 80s are coming with V2s

Last I asked the answer for that was no, so idk if that changed recently.

[dim cairn]

You could try Discord search.

125 messages. You value your time and decided to spend it with me. 🙂

[livid fiber]

You saying that is more disrespectful to yourself than to me.

I'm just enjoying my tea, music and testing my keyboard engaging in conversation.

[dim cairn]

It’s disrespectful to neither. I enjoyed it.

[livid fiber]

Fair, I misread your tone.

[dim cairn]

All good. Have a good night, day, evening.

[livid fiber]

Thanks, you too!

Once the 80 is out we can go back to requesting 65s lmao

[dim cairn]

Or: https://discord.com/channels/167181566978555904/1196356399437983794

😉

[livid fiber]

I'm down with either option, slap 8k on it and take my money.

[dim cairn]

Hopefully either in 2025.

I have faith..

[livid fiber]

https://tenor.com/view/ufo-believe-gif-11601687

[dim cairn]

Putting this here as I either don’t understand how the discounts work or can’t do math. As the $10 more Module with 180 switches, keycaps and a travel case is better value than the PCR ABS I will be getting that.

It better be true.

If it isn’t, I expect nothing less than a personal discount. 😂😂😉

[dim cairn]

They listened! The Module’s price decreased!

By $20.

The Module does not seem to come with the travel case as previously stated. The travel case is exclusive to the Zinc Alloy options.