❗(urgent) (JIS) include extra "no-bump J" and "bump K" keycaps

[cunning sail]

I really want with the campaign in few days get the JIS module but with both JIS and ISO nordic keycaps (already confirmed that it's possible via email after the order).
The issue is that the right Shift (image below) is too far from the typical home row typing position, where index fingers are on F and J (with bumps). So I will have to learn an alternative home row position F and K in order to reach that right Shift comfortably. But as far as I know, there won't follow extra no-bump J and bump K keycaps.

There is also other benefits moving to F and K position:

• reaching Del key easier, and also all the other keys on the right side, without moving the hand too much (like you often already now do with any keyboard)
• reaching the 1.0u Backspace key (JIS), without misclicking something in the process.
• you can center the keyboard on the H key, instead of G | H, meaning it can be moved a bit to the left, be more centered overall, and also give a bit more mouse space.

❗(urgent) (JIS) include extra "no-bump J" and "bump K" keycaps

[olive musk]

i am pretty sure JIS uses F and J as homerow orientation keys so I dont see why we would ruin most japanese touch type experience

[cunning sail]

but they would be extra keys, in some place away from main layout.
but also how do japanese people not dislike the right Shift placement being so far away? maybe they only use like left Shift?

[olive musk]

maybe... they just got used to it. the same way people get used to iso/ansi without issues

touch type wise the right shift isnt further away than backspace/enter not to mention that youd have to hit JIS backspace with your pinky as well

[cunning sail]

Well the issue I think still remains, it's not comfortable for how often you use it. (and again all those other benefits are nice with F and K)

but wait you also like forget that pinky goes in like an arc, so Enter is easier, small Shift is a bit harder, 2.0u Backspace is easy (but the 1.0u is a bit harder, and misclick-prone).

[olive musk]

oh and backspace on JIS is just as easy as enter i assume

makes sense

ah well

if there is more requests than just yours we could consider opening moulds for 2 special keys

[cunning sail]

also I have kind of large hands I think, and even I testing this can sense issue, more than half of the people (incl children) have smaller hands I think.

[olive musk]

also idk if japanese people ever need right shift to begin with as their IME uses lowercase letters to assemble kana/kanji

[cunning sail]

AI largely agrees but:

However, there may be some exceptions or situations where the right shift key could be used for specific purposes, such as accessing certain symbols or punctuation marks, but it is generally not needed for inputting the core Japanese writing systems of kana and kanji.
And also what about when they would like to type in English though.
... In that case, yes, it would still be helpful for a Japanese person to use the right shift key when typing English text on a standard JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) keyboard layout.

The JIS keyboard layout is designed primarily for efficient Japanese language input, with easy access to kana and other Japanese characters. However, when switching to typing in English, certain keys and functions follow a similar pattern to standard English keyboard layouts.

~~this is more interesting I think, AI says you need to press Right Shift for all these symbols (including Capitalization), left shift won't work (in English mode mostly).

So in summary, while the left shift serves Japanese input purposes, the right shift key retains its traditional role of enabling access to English symbols and punctuation when typing in English on a JIS keyboard layout.
also
Right Shift + '/' = ?
Right Shift + '@' = !
Right Shift + ':' = "~~

[olive musk]

i can assure you that left shit does the trick no issue

as i have used the japanese language input for quite some time in english mode

so i would say we dont ask a GPT that only uses pre fed info and needs to have a good prompt to spit out accurate data but ask actual users

[cunning sail]

this is Claude 3 Sonnet, so i guess kind of bad AI considering these answers, I just started using it. GPT4 answers pretty much like you.

[olive musk]

any GPT is bad either way and almost all AI is GPT (with some exceptions) either way you can always get them to say what you want one way or another. not to mention that often you can just say thats wrong it should be XYZ and the ai will trust you

[cunning sail]

yeah but this case is pretty insane, it really never happened like this before, GPT4 is definitely much better with these things I think, never had such massive issue with it.
I never said it that it should be like this, just asked questions. (until I said now that it was wrong and it confirms it was wrong) (but GPT4 I'm pretty sure is much better not to make such big mistakes to begin with, but also better at not trusting what you say)

[cunning sail]

but I said before a bit inaccurately that pinky "goes in an arc", but the main issue is that it bends like 45 degrees towards south-west when reaching for right Shift, and this is the main reason why it doesn't reach it on JIS comfortably (the arc motion like becomes uncomfortable, and then it has to bend instead, while keeping the other 3 fingers pretty close to if not exactly on J K L).

[cunning sail]

Well there is some solution for me still I guess if this petition is unsuccessful, since I order 2 sets of keycaps, I can try to remove bump on one of the J and add bump with super glue on a K, and still have the other J and K untouched.
ofc like on any other keyboard, bump still on wrong place, but since I will use this one most (when Tactile HE switches are installed) it's fine. (maybe Jade switches will be enough in meanwhile)