Persistent issue with one of my keys de-actuating while fully pressed down

[iron halo]

My D key does not function correctly with Rapid Trigger, it will sometimes be bottomed out and stop sending the input. This also happens with my S key but very rarely. I'm using .2mm Rapid Trigger sensitivity, Tachyon OFF, static lights on.

What I've tried:

Recalibrating the keyboard
Replacing the switches
Disabling Tachyon Mode (Currently OFF)
Disabling backlight
Using a different cable
Adjusting Rapid Trigger Sensitivity (From .15 to .3)
Moving from different firmware updates (2.6.17-test.high-res-scan and now v2.6.19)

Out of all of these options everything has helped slightly, except for replacing the switches and letting the keyboard calibrate. It seems that supplying my keyboard with proper power and being on a version of the firmware past 2.6.17 has helped the most, but my D key will still just give up probably 2 or 3 times every hour. What this means for me in games is that I'm suddenly unable to move right until I let my keyboard fully rebound and it often leads to me taking a lot of damage in Realm of the Mad God or TBOI.

I have some older clips from The Binding of Isaac when I was recording my hand:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70Gtr0ONUN0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNrMjzJt4x4

You can see here a few times that it is my S key which is having the de-actuation issue, since updating my firmware and using a C to C cable I now only have the issue with my D key, which had a more severe issue before anyways. Clearly some of the troubleshooting is able to reduce the physical problem with these keys, but it's just not enough to fully negate the issue.

So I'm asking please, let me send back this keyboard for a replacement. I'm so tired of this, I've dealt with it for several months now and while I really love the benefits of this keyboard, I am about to give up and wait for another brand to develop a similar technology. I thought for a moment that the software was the resolution to my issue, there's clearly something wrong with my board though.

[trim basin]

Thanks for posting your support request!

Please note, the support center is only for community-based support with technical troubleshooting and general questions.

For official Wooting Customer Support, please use the Contact Us button on the Wooting Hub or email your request to [e-mail]
note: use the email address associated with your order for fastest resolution

Looking for information about your specific order?
You can find that on the Wooting Hub! There you can also add upgrades, change/confirm your shipping address, and much more.

Is your order about to ship and you need to pause it for any reason?
Place it On Hold via the Wooting Hub!
https://hub.wooting.io/login

[green palm]

Phantom / multiple inputs often occur due to to low or unstable voltage from USB. This often happens when third party cables are used which aren't up to the standard (like a lot of coiled cables). It can also happen when another device is used in-between and so the overall power consumption would be too high on the USB port. So it's recommended to use the provided stock cable and either directly connect the Wooting to an I/O port on the back of the system or to an active USB hub (externally powered). In general USB 3.X ports should work better than USB 2.0 ports because 3.X ports typically can handle more power than 2.0 ports. A port on the case can also sometimes causes issues because the cable from the case to the mainboard header adds length and so resistance. If so the device should typically still work fine on a low power demand with 0% brightness and Tachyon off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8ojU_8ASVE

Besides that EMI can also cause issues. Like any magnet or electric device especially direct above or under the device. For example some fancy desks have magnets in it to clamp on accessories. Or the device don't work reliable when it's placed on top of a laptop. To test for that you can use the trail RGB effect while the actuation point is set to 0,1 mm and move the keyboard around and pushing it on the side without pressing any key. If keys get activated and especially when their spot compared to the ground / desk moved accordningly.

Another cause can be a bad or unideal mod. For example when a tape mode is done or too much foam was added to the case or switch tripods are used. If something is pressing against the legs of the switches or there is a soft layer between the switch and the PCB the flex can cause that the magnet slightly bounces and so causing multiple inputs.

It can be also a firmware issue. Some users have problems with the current stable firmware, especially on AVR when Tachyon is enabled and the idle brightness is disabled.

In the case you want to test the dev firmware please follow this link: https://beta--wootility.netlify.app/?test-builds=true
Then go to settings, then updates and click on "Get test firmware". Select "2.6.20-test.phantom-press.0 - Revised spacebar key repeat fix which should overall be more stable" to install it.

Meaning if the problem don't occur anymore when Tachyon is disabled or the idle brightness is enabled it's likely caused by a firmware issue and you should try out the dev firmware.

[iron halo]

Tried each of my USB 3.0 busses, tried USB C, they are pretty indistinguishable although the USB C by itself seems to be the most reliable. Firmware updates have only helped so much as well, I’ll get on this new test firmware but I’m not going to test it for as long as usual since I’m pretty certain by now that there’s a physical issue with my keyboard.

[green palm]

Wooting don't do customer support in Discord anymore. The support center here is for community support. In the case you want official support or start a RMA you need to contact Wooting directly. If so you likely still need to do troubleshooting to confirm it's really the device. So far this is unclear.

0,2 mm Rapid Trigger is still very sensitive, it's the second most sensitive value you can use. On the videos I can notice that the keys wobble when bottomed out. I wouldn't be surprised if this may causes the issue and that due to this there was an up stroke register far enough to handle the key as unpressed while the down stroke may wasn't to re-register it as pressed.

Meaning please decouple the Rapid Trigger settings and use a higher value for the up direction as for the down. Please report back at which values the issue don't happen anymore. Please also use the touch RGB effect to check how the registered signal behave when you wobble the key when that is bottomed out.

[iron halo]

Understood. Reason I’m here is because I was waiting for like 7 days to get a response on my ongoing ticket. I’ll just make a new one and test the longer Rapid Trigger sensitivity. I did this before and it stops around .35 which is kind of pointless, that was before the 2.6.17 update though.

[green palm]

The new stable version 2.6.21 should fix some issues related to phantom inputs due to a firmware bug. On a previous versions there were a bug which depends on the timing. In the case it's due to the firmware turning Tachyon off or enabling the RGB sleep function should help too if you aren't on the new stable firmware. Otherwise you were likely not effected by the firmware bug. If so the issue is likely related to the general causes mentioned above. Beside that only the key wobble maybe has an effect.

[iron halo]

Okay so trying out this mode "Touch" I can actually see with the lighting on my F12 key that my S and D key both react to wobbling whereas the A and D do not care at all

keep in mind, I've used 3 of the replacement switches between my S and D, it didn't seem to change it

but now I can visualize it at least

[iron halo]

I can't remember which one I replaced twice, but I have a bag of the switches that I was having trouble with marked, I think I have one I haven't tried left

checking around the other letter keys though, my T and E are also like my D and S

[green palm]

Ok, so the cause seems to be indeed the wobble. Would be interesting to know how a knows working switch behave for the troublesome keys. Like if the switch from A is put in for S.

This would tell if the switch itself is bad or if it's caused by something else. Make sure the switches are assembled correctly and that they sit very tight in the top plate.

[iron halo]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1074877494387290144/1115679206211330068/IMG_1013.mov

this was a video taken after swapping my D for the last spare switch I hadn't tried. Obviously we don't know how perfect of a switch is would be to begin with but it seems ever so slightly better

I don't feel like taking out the A or W* keys, maybe I'll try another letter or number that wobbles well

This is after swapping my D with my PgDn, a switch that performed perfectly

[iron halo]

This was the video after swapping the D switch for one of the spares in the box, it for some reason didn't want to preview

[green palm]

It looks there is a slightly change in the analog signal if the keys are wobbled. Depending how sensitive your Rapid Trigger settings are this can cause issues for sure. So I recommend to lower them a bit. I don't tested all my keys on all my keyboards but I'm not aware that a single key of mine has this issue.

Especially on the main movement keys this is very annoying for sure. The reason why I recommended to try a known good switch is to check if the switch is causing the issue or the assembly or sensor.

I know that Geteron changed the switches without telling Wooting about this. Please provide a picture of a bad the switch from the bottom when it's fully pressed and unpressed. In the case there is some burr it would likely cause issues.

[iron halo]

Yeah I tried my known good switch on my PgDn key on the D key's slot and the D key still had the issue and the PgDn was still fine

So it is not the switches, I also used all 4 of my replacements that came in the box, replaced the D switch 3 times since I had it, replaced the S once.

I should mention though, I've started a ticket again with support via email

I haven't noticed any burrs on my switches, but I also don't believe it's the switches causing any issues. It's something with the board itself

[green palm]

Would be nice if you can remove the top plate and inspect it so see if there is something off.

https://help.wooting.io/en/article/technical-how-to-remove-the-wooting-keyboard-top-plate-1wkb7xd/

[iron halo]

I'm going to wait on trying that until I hear word from support, but I see how it can be done