do you mean one should supersample/downscale etc.? I'm not quite sure what your point was
#🔌│tech
ashen spindle
reef tundra
Plus 4k screens require more power so whats out when they are in laptops.
ivory geyser
4K monitors are good, but the hardware for games isnt there yet.
reef tundra
dlss? The anti-aliasing using the raytracing cores?
ivory geyser
Or... barely
fickle ore
4k in a desktop size 27-32" gives a very nice PPI. Nearly as good as mobile phone for visual clarity but not good enough. For me 4k def looks better at med with loads of crap disabled than some 1080p with high/ultra high 🙂
pale sigil
I disagree
fickle ore
feel free to
pale sigil
But also agree
I’m some cases it did from personal experience
In most cases it did not
ivory geyser
The advantage of 4K is the fact that the the whole screen has permanent SSAA - which is HUUUUGE.
And without the downsizing.
It is pretty sweet
fickle ore
Yeah I dont run much AA with 4k although u can use like 2x
saves a few fps
its not such a big loss everyone makes it out to be
ashen spindle
but are the screens good enough that you get more than 60hz versions at reasonable prices?
ivory geyser
4K is like... built-in AA lol
reef tundra
Just keep in mind that at some point the eye cant dissern the pixels and it does not matter anymore. 4k on a 15'5 inch is for me hard to justify.. but damn text looks sharp on that
fickle ore
4k med, loads of shitty settings disabled like lens flare motion blur etc, no AA.. U can run p good fps most of the time
Soon not.
hdm 2.1 easy 4k 240hz
reef tundra
high refreshrate > high resolution > crt
ashen spindle
aside from ultra competetive environements like csgo pros, I feel like TN is not the choice to make anymore
fickle ore
I got a 1st gen 144hz and will use that until we get rid of shitty multilayer/substrate/backlight tech
reef tundra
Oled power
pale sigil
🤤
reef tundra
Oled is pretty epic, just not the pricetag
pale sigil
I’ll never forgot the OLED panels I played on during first gen stuff
reef tundra
Yea, oled can vary in quality enourmously
pale sigil
They were showing off OLED tech years ago at this convention I went to
reef tundra
if one to get them, dont get the cheapest as they burnin faster than a tantalium capacitor with mains voltage
pale sigil
A lot of them were used for games
wheat plume
This is a reallllyyyy nice setup!
reef tundra
Cus I removed the tumor from the system
ashen spindle
I mean, I think I;d prefer a solid background so I can actually read the code I write
reef tundra
Then go to tty2
ashen spindle
dont even know what that is
wheat plume
literally using the computer in command line only mode
crimson wigeon
But tty2 is taken over by my graphical session
reef tundra
It is pretty much a second instance of the system
if your pc freezes another tty can restore it
or continue
crimson wigeon
... if you're lucky, I have bad luck recovering with that, and yes I use magic sysrq to force it back into text mode too and all that
reef tundra
I only use tty1 at the moment. tty2-tt6 do nothing most of the time
stty -sane can help
wheat plume
The only time Ive used TTY was when SolusOS wouldnt show anything on screen after I tried to manually upgrade my GPU drivers
I dropped to TTY and did the eopkg history command to revert the last update :')
reef tundra
I use tty when I lock up my scheduler
wheat plume
what?
wheat plume
ooh...
reef tundra
Or when it does some command gets confused doesnt stop and raise signals so it gets stuck
The switching of tty is usually still working as it is concidered to be a high priority interrupt
The pull the powercord works everytime tho
crimson wigeon
Not really, it's up to whatever is in control of the VT to let the switch happen
So your x server or Wayland compositor or whatever can hold you hostage
wheat plume
I never thought id see a piss yellow GTK theme
reef tundra
The colours dont even harmonise
wheat plume
poor timeshift, looking dreadful in this theme
crimson wigeon
Also my fav X thing is something that doesn't happen anymore, but I remember in the earlier days games liked to do total input grabs, so no hotkeys worked anymore, yes including VT switches.. that was fun when those games locked up
reef tundra
x server better not disobey or I will send it a SIGNKILL
crimson wigeon
(although I do believe there is a secret hotkey to release all input grabs, can't remember it though and it's probably not enabled by default)
wheat plume
I just got an update for wifi, nvidia, kernel and systemD
reef tundra
Maybe a watchdog timer that looks for a tty switch and if not handled within time it sends xorg a signkill
why does systemd try to be the kernel? Stay a init system or get yeeted off.
ashen spindle
@proud nacelle found you a fellow systemd hater
proud nacelle
systemd does indeed suck
reef tundra
It is too big for its own good
proud nacelle
even if it was small, it sucks
reef tundra
tssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
It is too much what it tries to be and becomes too large to properly manage for security
A good init system just does that initialise
reef tundra
It is too large for that
reef tundra
many of the security issues were caused by non-initialise tasks. Which it had no reason to replace
With security the less code the better it works
proud nacelle
Not to mention systemd fails the unix philosophy
"do one thing and do it well"
It does multiple things terribly.
reef tundra
That is not the critical mistake. Due to its size and complexity noone has the complete picture of what it does, which leads to bugs and vurnabilities.
reef tundra
It does load fast, even with its bloat, I give it that. But not as fast as runit
and yes it sucks
wheat plume
"do one thing and do it well"
@proud nacelle elementaryOS and the custom made apps for it follow that like religion
And it's great
They all look and feel consistent
And provide really good functionality
proud nacelle
Sadly that os doesn't fit my needs
Closest thing is Gentoo.
Even Gentoo is bloated in someways.
reef tundra
unix philosophy is focused on small units that interact together to form complex systems. In the hope of reducing redundancy and bugs. Plus if one command is buggy and gets patched every system using that command has also been patched
and understanding ls is easier than understanding the entire filesystem
anyways keep it the wild west
proud nacelle
filesystems are a mess in linux
reef tundra
ext4
proud nacelle
worse than file layouts
reef tundra
That is all i need
reef tundra
journaling is great as I love to cut the power
proud nacelle
then yeah it's good for that case
reef tundra
Also ext4 is really fast
proud nacelle
but for someone who doesn't have power outages that often, not to mention a ups, i'm good.
crimson wigeon
Meh, rather systemd than flaky initscripts
plush summit
why is systemd hated on
all it does is run processes sode by side instead of in order
crimson wigeon
Because it's big and complex and does a lot of things and systemd the project has absorbed a lot of things and now a lot of other things depend on it
zenith sonnet
God damn, the simulation core of MS Flight Simulator is bloody amazing
reef tundra
That is pretty legit. Probably one of the most accurate air simulators that are able to run runtime. Cool beans
ashen spindle
https://twitter.com/GamersNexus/status/1297076525804773378 Shill Shack Steve back at it again, once again selling out for a hardware company :^)
Twitter
zenith sonnet
The marketing is a 'scam', if anything
It does promise much more than you get
ashen spindle
Yea Steve isn’t wrong, the last tweet he send was about an article calling raytraycing a scam, when the author meant RTX
And the comments showed how many people now instantly associate any raytracing with Nvidia
So Nvidia marketing did a great job I guess lmao
old marlin
RTX could be used a lot better
But it wouldn't be as flashy
Which is what nvidia wants
ashen spindle
RTX on the 20 series definitely wasn't as hype as they said it would be, also didnt help it costed more bc amd had nothing to offer
but it has nothing to do with raytracing itself :p
crimson wigeon
That's just a lot of gamers in a nutshell, imagine having any knowledge other than what marketing feeds you
reef patrol
Steve is wrong - Because he's using insane levels of pedantry to shoot down an article that confuses RTX with RT.
It doesn't change the fact that nVidia pulled the scam card - hard.
ashen spindle
idk, have you seen the replies, how many people genuinely dont seem to understand it?
reef patrol
See my point about Steve being pedantic af.
His phrasing is just so bad to begin with.
"Raytracing is not a scam, therefore nVidia's RTX tech is not a scam"
ashen spindle
is it pedantic though? people here know the difference but I doubt the vast majority of pcgamer readers are technically versed enough to know it's not just an nvidia thing
reef patrol
Yes - It is incredibly pedantic.
ashen spindle
agree to disagree then I guess ¯_(ツ)_/¯
zenith sonnet
I'm with Steve on that one
You can't just go and call all smart phones iPhones, because Apple made them popular
reef patrol
Read the article.
Literally starts out with Ray tracing was the great hope for Nvidia's current generation of graphics cards, and the main reason given for their high costs. Yet here we are on the dawn of the next-generation, and I'm still waiting for a ray tracing game that I actually give a damn about.
Where's the lie?
ashen spindle
ray traycing != real time raytracing
reef patrol
And here we go.
ashen spindle
basically every single game you will play has ray tracing
reef patrol
Let the pedantry loop.
I don't know a single sane person who hasn't referred to RTX as "Raytracing".
zenith sonnet
Nah. Pedantry to be to call it real-time path-traced lighting or whatever it was exactly
reef patrol
The article specifically talks about RTX - Not Raytracing in movies or anything else. It's obvious.
Steve goes "ushmmm technicshally raytracing is used in games outside of RTX."
zenith sonnet
And a writer should at least adhere to factual terms on a basic level, even if some people use them differently colloquially
old marlin
lol
ashen spindle
soo, then regardless of the article we still can say the headline is potentially misleading then?
reef patrol
No.
reef patrol
a lot of people refer to RTX as raytracing
@old marlin As they should - Because we're not turbonerds.
old marlin
yea
zenith sonnet
No
old marlin
not true though
zenith sonnet
Because it's just wrong
ashen spindle
and that is fine, but an article that goes nerding into the topic, should make a clear headline and not potentially misleading?
zenith sonnet
Stop supporting misinformation, Mansen :p
ashen spindle
it doesnt for you
you/us aren't the majority of people that see the article though
reef patrol
Article : "nVidia's RTX failed to do what it promised - It was a massive scam"
You : But raytracing isn't a scam.
They literally didn't say that!
reef patrol
Fuck it - I give up. The pedantry is astounding.
ashen spindle
I just dont see it as pedantry if it's not clear for the majority ¯_(ツ)_/¯
reef patrol
Anyone who isn't a turbo nerd gets that they're clearly referring to RTX. You can sit and blame them for not using the exact correct term, but the article is not wrong in what it's trying to convey.
ashen spindle
so just have a not misleading headline and everyone would be happy
reef patrol
sigh
ashen spindle
if everyone thinks that they are talking about RTX, isn't that a bad sign because people dont know what ray tracing is anymore?
reef patrol
No.
zenith sonnet
RTX isn't the only implementation of ray tracing
It should be specific to what they are talking about
reef patrol
They don't mention anything that isn't RTX a single time in the article.
zenith sonnet
Then the headline should reflect that
reef patrol
jesus christ
zenith sonnet
Just say RTX is a scam, and done
reef patrol
That's what they fucking did 
zenith sonnet
No, they said ray tracing was a scam
reef patrol
Steve literally invented an argument that wasn't there to begin with based on mislabeling RT as RTX.
They literally never said that.
ashen spindle
if they have an accurate article (cant read it, I aing turning off adblock for pcgamer) then why not also just have an accurate headline is my only point
reef patrol
No. No they did not.
If you nerds want to blame ANYONE for equating RTX with "Raytracing" (full stop), then blame nVidia.
vagrant marsh
Raytracing didnt failed. Rtx did
reef patrol
ashen spindle
that's the whole point, nvidias marketing was apparently so good, that even "tech" sites dont write accurately about it anymore
fickle ore
Good grief!
vagrant marsh
It raytraced. But the rtx cards wernt powerful enough to deliver the promised raytracing.
fickle ore
What are my elf eyes seeing
ashen spindle
I agree with you Mansen, the main culprit is nvidia, but other sites not correcting is makes it worse and doesnt help
reef patrol
Twitter
"It's not a scam!"
Yes it is Steve.
nVidia literally showed off tech demos and promised this would be how all AAA games would look.
And where are we? Control has some vague RTX elements, Minecraft is the only true semi-modern game with Realtime RT. Quake 2 is a tech demo. Battlefield V can barely keep itself on CPR with the lowest RTX settings.
300$ markup for nothing. Not a scam? Okay then.
ashen spindle
mh I get what he means but I think he worded that poorly, the feature aint a scam, it works how they mentioned it, but the way nvidia marketed it and the rtx cards could be called a scam
fickle ore
Yes RTX is a scam I give you that. Maybe in 20 years
reef patrol
RTX was literally a scam.
They marketed it as a retail ready feature with their products.
Until an RTX card is released that actually does what is promised, the tech is a scam.
fickle ore
First we need ok frames at 4k and 8k resos. I'm talking 120-240hz. Then we can stop chasing higher reso.
Then we can do RT
reef patrol
It's like arguing fusion power isn't a scam because theoretically you can make it work - Even if it requires more energy to make than it produces 😛
fickle ore
ye
ashen spindle
Until an RTX card is released that actually does what is promised, the tech is a scam.
@reef patrol see now we get into the pedantic area, is it RTX that is the scam or the delivery vehicle, the RTX cards that are the scam
reef patrol
Until the tech works - In practice outside of carefully designed and cherry picked Tech Demos, marketing it as "functional" is a scam.
ashen spindle
idk, SLI titan rtx probably has decent fps even with rtx
again, not my point, I agree that steve was a bit unclear there or maybe too much on a rant :p
we can agree nvidia marketing is at fault, I just then see instances like pcgamer as equally bad bc they perpetuate it if they do it this way
fickle ore
SLI is fucking terrible
ashen spindle
there are instances where it scales nearly 100%
fair gull
its technically not called sli
ashen spindle
is it nvlink for consumer cards too? I forgot
fickle ore
Even if it scales on avg like 60% its still shit. Horrible frame times and consistency and additional 1 frame of lag due to needing to sync the gpus
fair gull
rtx only has nvlink afaik
which has advantages like shared vram
unlike sli
were it was mirrored
but thanks to the new shared vram and a ton more bandwidth it can theoretically reach nearly 100%
usually the max i have seen so far is 90%
ashen spindle
sniper elite 4 is the one that comes to my mind where its close to perfect scaling
fair gull
i think i read somewhere that nvlink cards can go up to like 100GByte/s transfer speeds between them easily
which imo is dang fast for a mesh based approach instead of central controlled
the real question is if its worth the money
ashen spindle
usually not, unless you have the money and enjoy games where it works I'd say
fair gull
well id say its prob most worth for people doing ai and stuff
ashen spindle
but thats a super super low niche of users
fair gull
that need more power and vram
ashen spindle
ok sure, for GPGPU purposes
ashen spindle
3 slot reference cooler 
ashen spindle
but tbf perspective is making this look a bit bigger than it is
ashen spindle
look at the pci bus, upper looks like it has a longer connector but its the same size
ashen spindle
lets hope AMD wont wait till december to talk about big navi
crimson wigeon
@digital cliff the ; seems to have special meaning in the config syntax, try semicolon instead, you'll also probably have to restart the daemon somehow to load your updated config
fickle ore
suddenly the itch in my scrotch got bigger
crimson wigeon
Probably scrot eating the key then!
wheat plume
suddenly the itch in my scrotch got bigger
@fickle ore ffs man :')
crimson wigeon
Might be able to test it out with scrot -s in a terminal near you and pressing some keys and seeing what it says
Ecksdeeee
Yeah that seems wild, probably some weird path related thing I don't know.. but why wouldn't you be able to just have the full path in the filename? The whole mv thing seems redundant to me
maybe that's just a scrot thing ¯_(ツ)_/¯
crimson wigeon
If it absolutely has to be that way and sxhkd doesn't like it you can overcomplicate it with a oneline shell script sh #!/bin/sh scrot -s whatever you want etc
make it executable chmod +x file and modify your bind to run it
Quickly see if any rogue processes have appeared then!
kglobalaccel5 is probably the culprit here
ashen spindle
so much bloat, seems to be a bad OS 😛
crimson wigeon
Drue 😄
crimson wigeon
I got rid of these rogue processes by uninstalling Plasma DE and all that then installing only the KDE apps I want
reef patrol
Also microsoft : Let's force an incredibly obnoxious update to Edge and take over the desktop of everyone to forcibly show it to them.
Had it this morning - Had to task kill Edge (was not easy - it kept taking back control), and then run a powershell script to yeet it off the PC.
ashen spindle
the good part is, that finally means all the weird things that relied on IE being on the pc need to work without it now
reef patrol
The bad part is.... now it's edge xD
ashen spindle
ehh, I doubt most/any of these things will now rely on it
reef patrol
One can only hope. Edge is still stuck on the PC 😄
ashen spindle
I assume now you can remove it though, without that breaking windows parts
reef patrol
You're welcome to try.
ashen spindle
not on 2004 yet so I 'll decline :p
vagrant marsh
im honestly tho, i dont see the difference between 2004 and the previous one
they said that the menu search bar would be enhanced, but i type in the full name of a shortcut thats on my desktop and it cant find it
so enhanced my ass 🙂
reef patrol
2004 and the Edge update are separate.
I still haven't let 2004 on my machine, and I still got the Chrome Edge
ivory geyser
The new Edge is far better than anything else MS ever made.... because it runs on Chromium 
vagrant marsh
yup
nova carbon
the 3090 pics scale is a bit off, 3090 is bigger but not by that much, they have one scaled by the pcie connector
vs
ashen spindle
meh, second one looks different bc perspective, dont think its a tampered picture
nova carbon
the pci fingers are bigger on the 3090
if you check it
side by side
on the orig image
ashen spindle
ye, perspective bc its dual vs tripple slot so it's higher up
fair gull
watts isnt a thermal unit i think
ashen spindle
are you doing this on purpose now? :p
nova carbon
The standard unit for the rate of heat transferred is the watt (W), defined as one joule per second.
fair gull
i see
so if im hot enough i can power my pc by putting the cable in places
Watts are if anything just energy transfer
not heat transfer alone
smth like BTU/hr make more sense imo
ashen spindle
british and makes sense in the same sentence
vagrant marsh
nova carbon
sorry for what i said @fair gull, was out of line
fair gull
its in general for people who want to get rid of pinging and stuff
pale sigil
PING
reef patrol
👍
urban lynx
ashen spindle
thats enough
nova carbon
if its $1400 im gonna have to remortgage
ashen spindle
all prices leaks are not to be trusted
ashen spindle
we dont even know if nvlink will be available on consumer cards
nova carbon
i want to know if i can vertical mount them and still maintain pcie 4 signal integrity
i thought nvidia was largely stepping away from sli support
ashen spindle
sli yes, nvlink not bc thats needed on quadro etc.
nova carbon
mk
fair gull
nvlink is the successor of sli
zenith sonnet
Don't forget:
The 2080 Ti is 999$ MSRP, yet they sell for 1600$+ (just checked newegg)
If that thing is 1400$, you can expect to pay over 2000$ retail
ashen spindle
evga sold 3 slot bridges I think?
nova carbon
do all the high end nvidia cards have the nvlink fingers?
old marlin
@reef patrol would heavily speak against spray lubing flaretech
you will ruin the optics very quickly
also his choice of spray lube is bad for mx style switches
good for alps though
reef patrol
frozen anchor
yeah dont spray lube them lmao
old marlin
razer opticals are quite a bit simpler
at worst you change the activation point by one thickness of lube
no
you just close and open a light gate on the regular linears
fair gull
can u optical the actuation point on razer?
ashen spindle
not bad for multi gpu if I use one of each
pale sigil
Macbook pros don't have i3s as an option right
old marlin
uhh
don;t think so
not that mobile i3 to i7 ever meant shit
if they all end up being 2C 4T
pale sigil
It's air AFAIK that have i3
old marlin
13" macbook pro is all i5
fair gull
soon its not anymore
old marlin
lol
pale sigil
At a bargain
old marlin
uhhh
pale sigil
Unless they got the cpu wrong
old marlin
idk
fair gull
just
old marlin
there might be older macbook pros
pale sigil
2019
fair gull
check in the macos finder thingy system info thingy
pale sigil
Ye I asked him to check
pale sigil
Value
fair gull
yes
ashen spindle
doesnt matter, they have custom SKUs so i3 might be = i5 for all that matters
zenith sonnet
Did Nvidia do that on purpose?
Sell the 2080 Ti for 999$ MSRP, but keep supply low enough that it sells for 1300$ retail
Now they can upsell the 3080 Ti (aka 3090, gotta come with an upbranding) for "1400$", and it doesn't look like too much of a price hike
pale sigil
Haha its an i5
fair gull
u5
ashen spindle
again, i5/i3 doesnt matter, whats the sku
I assume they wanted to not do the same as last time and sit on a crypto-craze inventory and cant get rid of stock lmao
pale sigil
old marlin
@pale sigil that says i5
last linden
ivory geyser
WordPress is a PHP engine for blogs that runs on servers, not an app.
ivory geyser
Ah, that seem like some app that hooks up to an existing WP website, kinda like an external site manager
But in general, yea. I am pretty sure of it, since I dev on WP very frequently.
reef patrol
This is how people "use" WP mst of the time
ivory geyser
Not really. Maybe Mac users.
Since you also need a website set up with it.
To even post anything.
reef patrol
You DO realize most webhosts offer a WP solution?
Preinstalled for blogs and such. Just set it up with an app.
Just like Squarespace et cetera.
ivory geyser
Yes, but you have to first get the site set up at the webhost and they have configure it for you. Then you can connect to it via the app.
reef patrol
Your point being?
ivory geyser
I am kinda curious how this app would work with more complex themes.
reef patrol
Probably won't - And that's fine for 99% of its users 😄
ivory geyser
I actually dont think that many people use WP as a blog nowadays since most people users moved over to social networks.
Sadly, I dont have any numbers to back this up, but frankly, it has been ages since I have seen a legit blog show in my search history that was made in just like that in the wild.
reef patrol
Given how everyone and their pet dog's instagram is serving up ads for Squarespace. I doubt you're right 😄
ivory geyser
Possibly
Would be nice to have some actual data on this.
Since this is a conflicting opinion of two hunch-feelings lol
wheat plume
Ah!! A vanced update
What a rare occasion indeed
wheat plume
Youtube Vanced = normal youtube app but better
I like this one cause it's literally the youtube app
But with background play
And no ads during the video
Rss feed?
New feature
Dannng this is awesome
chrome estuary
zenith sonnet
ashen spindle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbGomv195sk @pale sigil didnt you have some issues with your AIO cooling despite everything looking fine? maybe it was the mounting?
ashen spindle
ye but I dont know either his case/setup options nor what his cooler was
just saw this and remembered he had some issues with his
reef patrol
Also GN kind of contradict themselves. They mention mounting the radiator beneath the pump is bad...and yet that is exactly what happens when you put the tubes at the bottom 😄
ashen spindle
¯_(ツ)_/¯ didnt pay much attention bc I'm using a noctua anyway, but regardless there is probably something to it that could be helpful or not, doubt it'll hurt if he takes a look
reef patrol
And as usual they spend almost half an hour saying something that can be shown in 4 quick slides in an easy and understandable way.
old marlin
well they have been for a while
ashen spindle
.. you're still annoyed steve didnt like the rt article aren't you xD
old marlin
not new that GN is against that
reef patrol
Steve has always annoyed me tbh 😄
I always wait for the written article that lets me read the conclusion in seconds, not having to doze off in a video that just keeps on droning about instead of
"Conclusion, Now here is why for the folks who want to learn."
old marlin
ashen spindle
iirc he said he even prefers written articles, they just dont bring in the money
old marlin
people have been asking for an explanation why GN hated on aio mounting so much
reef patrol
And that's fine. I just shouldn't need to skip back and forth in a 30 minutes video to get a straight answer 😄
old marlin
?
they gave the straight answer for a long time
that video just serves as an explanation for their opinion with actual reasoning
if you cut out the important part take any video of them doing something with an aio
like ANY
ashen spindle
what mansen eludes to, it would have been nice to preface the video with a quick overview of right/wrong and then the explanation since not everyone watching this watches their case videos
reef patrol
This video is all about "Do AIO mount good, not bad", and spends more time discussing the technology behind AIOs and showing flowrate...than actually showing what a bad mount is or what to do in a given scenario 😄
If I can only mount my AIO at the top, should I mount it front or back? If I can only mount it in the bottom, should I avoid an AIO altogether? If I can only mount it in the back should the tubing be below or above the pump, since you have an issue with the entire radiator being below the pump.
Et - cetera.
reef patrol
Meh - Doesn't really answer the question 😛
ashen spindle
meanwhile, it does seem like the 12pin seems to exist, but only for FE cards https://videocardz.com/newz/seasonic-confirms-nvidia-rtx-30-series-12-pin-adapter#disqus_thread
reef patrol
Makes sense - If only nVidia feel like we need a new standard, everyone else is going to postpone.
Especially if the new PSU standard isn't even sorted and agreed upon.
zenith sonnet
@ashen spindle I just posted that 10 mins ago :p
reef patrol
And including an adaptor cable like that with every single card sold is going to be noticeable on the end of year budget.
zenith sonnet
Gonna be funny
ashen spindle
eh, founder edition alreadt has had price premium for no reason on it, not gonna hurt them too much I reckon
zenith sonnet
Eh, not so noticable when your cards will cost 2000$
ashen spindle
but ye, with them also using G6X memory when JEDEC hasn't specced it, im not surprised they are trying to push this
reef patrol
As I see it Intel's proposed PSU design is... so pants on head dumb. Especially the SATA and Molex aspect.
Needing to spend about ... 20% of an ITX board's surface area just for power conversion also isn't popular.
ashen spindle
the 12 pin is not related to the intel12vo though?
zenith sonnet
Just make silicon that runs on 220V AC
Is it that hard??
reef patrol
The intel design has 12pin cable options.
In fact the whole 12pin rumor mill is what preceded Intel's design.
ashen spindle
also, sure they want money it's gonna be a very small margin and I assume they have a longer lasting plan so they are taking a hit now in already insanely high priced consumer cards bc in the long run they make more somehow
.. are you sure about that?
reef patrol
In the media? Yes.
ashen spindle
we had rumours of the 12 pin last year already? 
reef patrol
March is when I started hearing about it in the back rooms.
So... last year? News to me 😄
ashen spindle
first article on google is from january about the 12vo standard, even mentioning that intel has been on the spec for months
so I doubt the 12 pin predates intel's spec
reef patrol
Intel's spec has been mentioned for years, but there has never been anything physical till Linus got a sample.
So I stand by my timeline 😄
ashen spindle
https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/guides/single-rail-power-supply-platform-atx12vo-design-guide.pdf I mean the public revision 2 has been dated with may, the previous one was kown months before
sadly the articles links this document and I cant find the date for the previous revision
wait nvm the pdf has it
reef patrol
Let me rephrase since we're clearly talking past each other.
Intel's VO design is old - But it has always been a suggestion without any hard evidence of being pushed into design and production.
Wasn't until the 12pin rumors got off, that Intel saw a chance to combine the two and make something of it in the media.
So many proposed standards out there that never become anything real.
ashen spindle
I get what you meant, im saying we had hands on evidence of intel pushing it before we knew about the 12 pin on nvidia
its totally possible they worked on it together, since this is mostly for OEM and such
reef patrol
I disagree. 🙂
ashen spindle
idk how you can disagree with there literally being a date for it but sure
reef patrol
It's a paper.
ashen spindle
but isnt it a 10 pin on intel's suggestion?
ye I can only find 10 pin not 12 pin references in the intel thing
fickle ore
How much is -60 db attenuation regarding EMI/RF
What amount would be sufficient in a home pc setup, with only keyb/mouse connected and active speakers
I'm looking at surge protectors
ashen spindle
I know some of these words yes
fickle ore
nvm found the recommended amounts.
misty saffron
i know that -60db is quiet
fair gull
wait surge protectors care for emi/rf?
fair gull
why tho
fickle ore
why what
fickle ore
why the hell should you?
fair gull
thats my question
ashen spindle
Did you just answer his question by asking him the same thing he asked you???
fair gull
yes they did
fair gull
wha
ashen spindle
????
fickle ore
"what does it improve, that I should shell money out for it?"
fickle ore
doesnt calculate.
ashen spindle
No the question is what it changes, since you specifically looked for it you must know what it’s about
fair gull
ya
ashen spindle
Like does the rfi make it more reliable or does it need a minimum of some sort to not break etc.
fair gull
like i never looked into this even tho many.companies buy surge protectors from me
mainly cause no one ever needed to know this from me
fickle ore
Oh ok
fair gull
so whats the benefit
fickle ore
this has RFI attenuation by specs
it's a very popular brand with surgeprotectors I think
fickle ore
Too broad question, it's impossible to answer. Articles online tell what you want to know
fair gull
what
you specifically wanted on for the pc/speakers you have
so there obviously is some improvement it brings
like im just confused cause modern PSUs already have filtering for EMI/RF
and inrush current protection
oh so u just wanna get rid of speaker ground loop
imo modern speakers should honestly have these filters themselves
wheat plume
uwu
wheat plume
ashen spindle
make sure to do the DDU, Daily Distro Update
wheat plume
:')
ashen spindle
https://twitter.com/aschilling/status/1297518250708938752?s=21 hm looks like it might have practical use in freeing up more boardspace compared to when you need more than one 8 pin
old marlin
huh
misty saffron
does anyone know shit about circuits? trying to build a serial i2c programmer, there are 5.1v zener diodes in the circuit but i only have 4.7v and 5.6v zeners - can i use one of those instead?
pale sigil
I saw that
zenith sonnet
Why doesn't discord show the animated .gif?
frozen anchor
sometimes preview is bugged and you need to download it and upload it yourself
there it is
ashen spindle
worse than usb? that I doubt
thick elk
Thing is intel tried with btx, didn't stick
reef patrol
Don't know about you but I'm personally not a fan of Intel's plans to run power conversion on the motherboard. For several reasons.
thick elk
oh power
I do think that the move to 12 volts only is pretty good.
Nvidia's 12 pin connector not so much.
reef patrol
Maybe if they find* a better way to do it.
Putting it on the motherboard and removing SATA/Molex support is not the way.
thick elk
12V only moves sata / molex to the motherboard and a lot of pc's have no need for sata / molex.
reef patrol
Not quite.
thick elk
It should generally reduce idle power consumption
reef patrol
They changed SATA and Molex cables to be 12v, which is going to fuck over so many people with controller devices and such.
And instead added new SATA out data cables on the motherboard.
I mean if you're going to mess up SATA at least make a new combined power and data line. And find a better solution than "oh we don't support ITX due to space limitations"
If anything they should change the motherboard standard. Leave the poer conversion in the PSU and live with the minimal power loss in the cables.
ashen spindle
I just hope they can decide on one thing, dont want to see some weird split where low end OEM boards use 12vo and other boards then dont use it so we break compability with stuff
fickle ore
@reef patrol That is not the trend. Trend is efficiency, as it should be
thick elk
I think in the long run phasing out 5v as a separate power line is a good move, most things need to convert the voltage anyway.
reef patrol
The only thing Intel is aiming for is idle efficiency. At the cost of upsetting the entire market. Their proposal is only good for OEM office machines.
Their move will move so much hardware to legacy. And Linus even admitted that several PSU manufacturers were already doing similar things - in the PSU.
thick elk
motherboards do need to supply 5v for usb among other things as well.
reef patrol
AIOs, Fan controllers, RGB controllers, case controllers for either. The list of stuff they want to turn their backs on is long.
Should we strive for efficiency? Definitely. But Intel's proposal really doesn't seem like a plus.
fickle ore
@reef patrol Yes. That is the correct evolution. Inefficient designs should die infavour of efficient designs.
thick elk
for power efficiency you can just go down from 12 to 5 instead of mains to 5 and yea that would be more efficient.
As for fan controllers already use 12v as far as I know, as can rgb.
fickle ore
Doesn't matter how many devices get legacied. They're still usable until replaced
reef patrol
They arent efficient though. With Intel's proposal they need to convert from 12v and down anyway. In the controller.
Since both SATA and Molex are changed into 12v, I'd hardly call existing devices "usable"
You're just going to fry them if you change to a vo design.
As an end user.
thick elk
Thing is nowadays on most electronics you need some fairly specific voltages anyway. fans and leds being an exception here. So starting at 12v is really no big deal in the long run.
SATA and molex use both 5v and 12v lines. They just remove the 5v line.
reef patrol
Or you're going to be maxing out those new 4pin? SATA plugs coming our of the motherboard.
"just" 😆
reef patrol
Anything that uses 5v no longer works...on the same connector.
fickle ore
It works, you're not gonna buy a new design with incompatible components
fickle ore
if I buy ZEN 3 pc this fall.. I will use old psu design and pc parts with old design.. That PC will last me 10 yrs just fine
Whats the issue?
reef patrol
I already explained the issues 😆
reef patrol
An entire market segment isn't irrelevant t to manufacturers though
fickle ore
Meh not a big deal. Parts will exists for both desings
thick elk
Even if you do I am sure some clever manufacturer will make a voltage converter that takes a single gpu power connecor or other 12v connector and generates 5v from there.
If there is demand for 5v something will be made for it. It's just power, nothing too complicated.
reef patrol
Existing components care a lot.
Let's take my PC as a great example.
I have a SATA based harddrive and three controllers for RGB and fans. All three will cease functioning if I swap over to a VO PSU.
So now I'll have to get a MoboSATA cable to HDD to power the Harddrive again, and I'll need to replace all of my RGB and buy a new fan controller.
I will also need a new motherboard with less room for other components, and my PSU will shrink even more - In the part of the PC where space is already not an issue, since PSUs have shrunk to half the size for most use cases in a decade.
fickle ore
buy a new one or dont buy 12vo psu
reef patrol
"Just don't use it" is not a valid argument when we're discussing why their standard is bad 😄
Their proposed standard doesn't work for ITX, it adds a ton of cables and part replacement for a segment. And it only benefits idle wattage.
End users don't care - This design is incredibly OEM in nature.
They may as well cut off the SATA and Molex connectors entirely, since they aren't backwards compatible in the slightest, and SATA devices now receive power through a Dell/HP esque cable from the motherboard.
Or to put it in meme terms.
This ain't it chief - Your standard causes so many issues and solves... one.
thick elk
If everyone switches to 12vo you can probably still keep these parts it will just be a bit less convenient for legacy users.
Personally I really would not mind switching to 12vo in a new build.
Fans I have all controlled from the motherboard (better temperature readings for my fan curves / controlable in software).
I just have 2 sata ssd's and really don't mind a less neat cable.
Future sata devices in such a case would be build to not require the 5v line at all, same for other devices that do use it now.
ashen spindle
already posted that :p
zenith sonnet
Already posted that
ashen spindle
smh imagine not reading every single message in ever single discord server smh
thick elk
I mostly stopped using irc some years ago but my bouncer was still running up until a few months ago
I have had a group like that for some time though just 12 years in my case but we generally moved to discord a few years ago.
zenith sonnet
Doesn't Apple want 'gaming' off their OS, anyway?
reef patrol
Naw.
frozen anchor
wonder how many people wont buy an iphone because of this or if people will even care that much
reef patrol
They want everyone to use their API with ARM. Or cloud gaming (theirs)
They don't want AAA games running "On metal" though from what I remember. No more high end GPUs.
ashen spindle
well I doubt that the current phone sales are high, with next gen out soon so that might speed up the process
misty saffron
i get this feeling apple will get fucked
ashen spindle
hopefully
thick elk
Interesting to see Microsoft support epic here, considering they are also offering a locked platform that could be affected as well.
As for apple not going for gaming, My guess is that on desktop at least it's a fight they know they cannot win, gaming on mac has not been a big thing for quite some time anyway.
reef patrol
Their platform is less locked - And less affected.
ashen spindle
they offer a locked platform? you're not comparing xbox to a phone here are you?
misty saffron
a console being locked and a phone are... quite different lol
thick elk
Of course apple being forced to open up their phones does not require microsoft to open up their consoles but it does set a president.
It also limits their options if they want to lock a platform in the future.
So it was more an interesting that microsoft is taking Epic's side rather than remain neutral.
ashen spindle
they want xcloud to run on ios
zenith sonnet
They might get a chance to bring XCloud back to iOS if Epic wins
ashen spindle
and a standard for phones does not relate to consoles at all
reef patrol
Is this the time where I point out that Microsoft's App store is also a Windows thing? 😄
In particular their locked S model OS
thick elk
Oh yea they want their services on apple devices as well, I guess that gives them a bigger interest
ashen spindle
yes but the store is not the only way to get something onto your pc, S version aside
reef patrol
No no - But it makes sense why they'd be the ones to defend Epic.
Their store is the least significant - It already offers a much better developer deal AND it's not really "locked" except on S and Xbox.
It's basically pure win for MS to help take Android and Apple down a notch
ashen spindle
yup
thick elk
As for consoles not being the same, the scenario I was thinking of is where apple gets forced to open up via new legislature which could also impact other kinds marketplaces on locked devices.
If it's mainly in the court of law under abuse of power that would indeed be very doubtful to impact consoles.
ashen spindle
consoles unlike phones are also not argued to be an essential thing
thick elk
That is very true, and the slight risk I was thinking of is a bit of a stretch.
Where the laws change in such a way to disallow the creating of devices where only only one supplier is allowed for software.
Again a stretch but a possible door that could be opened.
I am pretty sure if Epic wins this which is a big if, they are at least going to try to go a step further.
reef patrol
I think the more realistic outcome is massive fines for Apple and Android and some kind of enforced legal limit on their percentage take.
Or just being unable to ban third party payment processors in apps.
thick elk
Or just apple being forced to allow some form of sideloading
ashen spindle
I think the removal of not allowing other payment options would already be enough regarding the app store
allow other options when the apple option is available, so people can chose "safety" from going through apple, or lower the % cut
pale sigil
ooft im getting the notorious double logitech click issue.
misty saffron
what about the notorious fucked scrolling issue?
zenith sonnet
Never seen that
Double clicking is how each and every of my (dead) mice since 1998 died
Mostly Logitech, but there have been others as well
And there's two or three I stopped using for other reasons, mostly sort of recent
frozen anchor
just cleaning the mouse has fixed the doubleclick issue for awhile whenever i had it
zenith sonnet
The G600 is favour is the G502, because the imperfect sensor annoyed me
The G502 in favour of the G900, because the thumb rest annoyed me
The G900 in favour of the GPW, because I was having issues with the shape? Still have them, slightly less though
Now it should be right
zenith sonnet
I'm waiting for the headline: "Nvidia Ampere: The name is game"
old marlin
@misty saffron he doesn't have a hero lol
halcyon moss
holy crap, media keys are working for firefox (and deezer) (and linux)
zenith sonnet
Napkin math: 3090 will draw between 300W (more than 2x 8pin without draw through the slot) and 525W (3x 8pin plus slot)
There would be no good reason to use a new cable instead of just 2x 8pin like we already have
And AiB models also seem to feature 3x 8pin, so it should fit within that range
halcyon moss
they'll just add a converter :p
i dont know how expensive it wil be, but it'll probably be a lot. so spending an other 100 buckls on a new psu is probably within budget
i've managed to buy one a few weeks ago
ashen spindle
The 12 pin is only for FE cards, that’s not what majority buys anyway
halcyon moss
(also, living under a rock for psu? wtf whyu is that even a thing :p )
ashen spindle
might also see two FE design, we know nvidia was testing two designs
fickle ore
Why do you want bga?
Why? 🙂
I might try ITX this time around or MATX
Apparently they make worldrecords with ITX/matx boards due to the size difference - shorter traces
fickle ore
It's a question between 2x dual rank ram vs 4x single rank
both should theoretically give you quad channel
fickle ore
Nope
ashen spindle
dont think we ever had a consumer cpu that supported more than dual channel
fickle ore
its not true quad channel but it gives you a 10-20% boost due to memory ranks
ashen spindle
you seem to mix up stuff with memory channels
fickle ore
Nope
ashen spindle
then what is this fake quad channel thing you are on then?
fickle ore
4x SR vs 2x SR vs 2x DR vs 4x DR
ashen spindle
so nothing about channels :p
fickle ore
yea I said fake quad channel
But for myself it comes down to, in regards with zen 3, ITX with 2 ram slots vs ATX with 4 ram slots
ashen spindle
in theory DR should be better than SR bc the mem controller can make use of rank interleaving
but 2 DR vs 4 SR on a 4 slot board should make no difference
fickle ore
prob cant push 2 DR to 4k - 4.5k :<
and dunno if ryzen 3 mem controller can take it, or IF
fickle ore
sounds like SR but not sure
ashen spindle
4066 on 2x16gb definitely is not SR anymore though lol
so I'd say it's unlikely that you'll run into issues there, unless zen3 has endless caling IF which I doubt lmao
fickle ore
4066 is p good
translates to 2033 IF. Depends if zen 3 can do what renoir does under OC, 2500 IF
B550 vs x570?
ashen spindle
that one was on b550 but should work on either, depending on the board
fickle ore
Ye, I'm just wondering which one is better as a board. I think b550 is made by Assmedia and x570 AMD.
HMm
ashen spindle
sure but the chipset has nothing to do with memory lanes
fickle ore
No, but might have differences in trace paths/lengths
So I just wondered if anyone knows which in general is better atm
ashen spindle
depends on the board, has nothing do to with chipset
old marlin
chipset has nothing to do with traces
thick elk
Memory going through the chipset would be painful.
ashen spindle
usb/sata/pcie stuff that is not directly from the cpu
you could run ryzen without a chipset
old marlin
yea I think you have everything you need
fickle ore
omg guys 🛫
fickle ore
ofc memory doesnt go thru chipset.... wtff
[12:25] Dag: Ye, I'm just wondering which one is better as a board.
x570 or b550
thick elk
you still have to deal with the ethernet / wifi that usually goes through the chipset
fickle ore
sadly ;_;
I think ethernet is currently the only one that doesn't go through chipset atm on x570/b550
otherwise I could disable the chipset entirely
unless PSP is required to boot
old marlin
you can use ethernet via USB 
fickle ore
lol
old marlin
jsut make your own mobo 
thick elk
Isn't overclocking tied to the chipset in some form ie some overclocking lock on a520 ?
probably just the bios though
but a requirement set by amd
fickle ore
Probably just bios?
ashen spindle
well, the multiplicator is locked, but you can OC by increasing the base clock
so as long as you dont use NVME on your a520 you can still OC
shadow minnow
I doubt VRM of a520 boards would be capable of OC
fickle ore
Intel has some required-to-boot devices located on the chipset though
ashen spindle
for a 3300x or 3600 its still good enough
thick elk
I know still there is a difference on that regard, that's why I was pointing it out.
as for the vrm on a520, that really depends on the cpu you want to oc.
fickle ore
So if anyone knows which one is better b550 or x570 lmk
ashen spindle
I'd say b550 is the better option bc no chipset fan
unless you need more pcie4 stuff than what b550 allows
shadow minnow
There is one x570 without that fan
thick elk
The chipset fan hardly ever runs though
ashen spindle
aside from that it just depends on the board and what features you want, there isn't really much more to say as a general fact about them
shadow minnow
Also, I would not buy mobo or anything now, rather wait for next gen
ashen spindle
not for zen3 launch, beyond that no clue
shadow minnow
Also @fickle ore , do you already have GPU?
fickle ore
Yep I have 😄
ashen spindle
a machine learning accelerator
fickle ore
There was an interesting take regardng zen smoothness from a wendell video. Despite the intel system having higher avg fps and 1% lows the intel system was stuttering on the video vs Ryzen was smooth.Iirc he had a crystaldiskmark open on the background, because he wanted to check how much IO made a difference on the tested systems.
ashen spindle
yea, for multitasking they are much better
fickle ore
Now it would be interesting to know, if that's fully dependant on additional cores, or the larger cache on AMD or direct cpu -> storage link
to test*
ashen spindle
that depends on what exactly you are running but for most cases it will be the additional cores, then the cache in term of relevancy
connection to storage then far behind in terms of affecting things
fickle ore
I agree on theory, however, what if there is feeding bottleneck caused by DMI/Chipset latency?
Travelling latency is bigger, but the switching in chipset/dmi dwarfs that, and is probably x100-x1000 that latency
ashen spindle
since I'm assuming we are still talking about the impact on a game with other stuff running, I'm fairly confident scale of impact just isnt in the same dimension as cores/cache
fickle ore
w8 I gotta check what the intel system was on that bech, but if it was a 6/12.. How could 2 additional cores be the difference.. I remain skeptical.
ashen spindle
cores+ cache
not just the cores
given on some boards it's still DMI2.0 not even 3.0 I doubt that part really matters for gaming stuff
fickle ore
The problem with intel, everything is on the chipset
network + mouse + keyboard + audio + other stuff coming thru the dmi bottleneck
normally IO is priority higher than m/kb but idk about network/audio
So maybe it needs to wait a few cycles or can it trasmit different stuff in one cycle?
ashen spindle
once again I highly doubt that matters, if you can even measure it
like that stuff is in the <1ms area all combined
dmi3 is just pcie3, I don't see how that would be the bottleneck
fickle ore
I cant find that wendell video
ashen spindle
I know which one you mean but idk what the video was about
bc that part we talk about was only a small section so cant really find it either
ashen spindle
yea I'd say that comes from cores (idk how many SOTTR uses without diskmark) and cache
they have the same ammount of cores right?
so should be cache mostly
ashen spindle
12 vs 32 mb
ashen spindle
you dont even need to think about it, you can prefetch more data without it affecting the other program at all, a game that uses less would be less affected, a task in the backround that needs less would perhaps not make a difference at all etc.
definitely not something that should influence your decision to get x570/b550 unless you actually plan to do heavy work during gaming
bc at that point you should default to x570 bc you most likely can make use of more pcie4 lanes
thick elk
Regardless of the reason being less suseptable to storage being hammered in the background would have some benefit. When some stupid utility or even windows decides it's time to update. Probably won't be as extreme but could be noticable in some cases.
That being said purely for gaming the extra framerate on intel's side will probably be noticable more often.
fickle ore
For sure, depends on use cases most of the time. That's the beauty of acquiring knowledge so you can get the best one for your usecase
vagrant marsh
Not really sure how windows updating influences your game
ashen spindle
IO usage
fair gull
windows updates dont use IO
vagrant marsh
Never noticed it myself, but i always try to stay up to date hardware wise.
fair gull
they use black magic
fickle ore
For me, my next 10 years will be spent in one MMORPG where draw distance is super large. It's an open world game. There will be frequent, very big cpu - storage transfers. Direct CPU - Storage link is ideal, coupled with large cache =]
fair gull
its why they end up being trash so often
fickle ore
And low access time ofcourse
fickle ore
Pantheon
fair gull
will that ever release tho?
fickle ore
Yeah, I trust it will. I know some of the devs on that team.
It's a passion project for them
They have classes and most core systems done. And nearly one continent populated. Then it's just more worldbuilding, npc populating and creating art assets for those. They have planned to release with 3 continents.
ashen spindle
still needs to be able to sustain it for it to run for 10 years :p
also wtf why are they insane and make a mmo in unity
fickle ore
Unity is pretty good these days
ashen spindle
I'm literally working in unity right now lmao
fickle ore
Sadly probably
They have said they will not send anything but essentials to the client tho
Server is authorative in everything
ashen spindle
sure but it will be much easier to find holes than from a custom engine where people need to intercept stuff and cant just reverse compile it
fickle ore
Ya. I hope thy have guts to reroll to earlier database versions if said cheats/money hacks happens
thick elk
So in general is unity pretty bad on the security department for online games?
ashen spindle
no, but it's much easier to decompile C#/.net stuff than c++ or other low level languages and thus easier to find exploitable code
so it's not the online part that is less secure, it's just giving another attack vector to make it easier to find weak points
fickle ore
Isn't the core of Unity in c++
ashen spindle
of unity, not of the code you write in unity
fickle ore
I'm sure they'll have rewritten some parts of the engine for their specific use in c++
ashen spindle
it's not an open source engine, you cant do that that easily unlike in unreal
they have probably writte their own network stuff but I doubt they changed much else, otherwise might as well use your own engine
or maybe used one of the existing network packages, there are some good ones out for unity
thick elk
Open source would not be the correct term but I know what you mean. Interesting, I would have thought unity would also offer source code to big developers.
Makes sense that it's mostly used by smaller studios.
ashen spindle
that isn't really related, ubisoft uses Unity for example, cases where unreal is used by big studios is not really bc the source code is known
fickle ore
@ashen spindle Have you read any unity 3d college stuff? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCX_b3NNQN5bzExm-22-NVVg/videos this guy is one of the pantheon coders
ashen spindle
also going forward new packages are mostly/all open source in unity too I
nope dont know him
I am very perplexed as to why he's using rider and not VS though
thick elk
Having access to the source code would allow big studio's to modify the core engine to their needs, I would think that this could be a fairly important thing for some developers.
Sure studio's could work around not having source access but it I'd imagine it certainly to be a big plus.
ashen spindle
nah the reason unreal is used more than unity by big studios is that it has better/had scripting earlier than unity
you can just use blueprints in unreal to make everything
shadergraph is fairly new in unity and you still need to code for most things, only recently have blueprint-like add ons really been usefull
thick elk
fair enough, it's also fairly hard to overtake an esteblished engine with devs being trained to use it as well.
ashen spindle
hahahahaha
clicked through the video
"what major games are using unity" "crowfall" ahahaha you dont want a 5 year delayed game to be your first mention surely
thick elk
also non of these games I would categorize as AAA
fickle ore
Pantheon won't be AAA, it'll be a niche game 😉
ashen spindle
idk, I know what unity can do, I dont doubt this can work, just extra painfull work especially in regards to lighting, network and ui code
old marlin
thinking of a released AAA game that uses unity
fickle ore
Yeah we'll see bro
ashen spindle
hearthstone?
old marlin
fickle ore
idk
old marlin
deus ex runs unity
halcyon moss
?
fickle ore
deus ex: The Fall, apparently
ashen spindle
the mobile deus ex
fickle ore
XD
halcyon moss
oh, i thought it was the same anegine as hitman or tombraider
deus ex human revolution and the other one
old marlin
hitman go
halcyon moss
good game
old marlin
tarkov is unity lol
ashen spindle
the pc deus ex games use an internal engine ye
old marlin
sick urchin
2016
thick elk
original one right?
sick urchin
fickle ore
thing is public engines develop all the time. Think Unreal 3 vs 4 vs 5 lol
ashen spindle
UE5 is just marketing + updates UE4 would've gotten
fickle ore
ya ofc
My point is, a game released in 2015 vs game released on 2020 in a public engine could be vastly different
ashen spindle
I mean my only point is they make it painfull for themselves for no reason by using unity over unreal imo
thick elk
for pantheon it was clear, they wanted to set up a quick demo and the asset store helped there, after that they probably didn't want to restart from scratch
fickle ore
Yeah that or, most of their devs were already familiar with unity
ashen spindle
for pantheon it was clear, they wanted to set up a quick demo and the asset store helped there, after that they probably didn't want to restart from scratch
unreal asset store is much much bigger
maybe they didnt like the licensing terms idk
either legal terms or experience with the engine ye
fickle ore
Which engine handles big zones/open world better?
Unreal 3/4 experience for me has always been bad
or maybe the asian devs just sucked ass that made mmorpgs from those engines
pale sigil
Unreal 3 is god awful for that
reef patrol
mutters something about Horizon Dawn
ashen spindle
better is hard to say, both unity and ue4 have the tools to handle big stuff
reef patrol
Unity fails hard at it.
Games like Cities: Skylines hit very hardcoded engine limits.
thick elk
I know historically at least big open area's have been a cryengine strong point.
ashen spindle
different stuff, cities is not really using the same resources a mmo would use
reef patrol
It is though.
ashen spindle
no
reef patrol
We're talking just entity counts.
reef patrol
Cities has been in active development since so... 😛