They show you how to convert switches and give you all the dimensions of the wrist rest
#🔌│tech
ivory geyser
@short cove You can even put any kind of custom spring into the switches if you dislike the stock one.
short cove
Are these springs "standard"?
frozen anchor
they are
short cove
The ones in the switches
frozen anchor
if you need springs and dont mind waiting awhile for shipping kbdfans is great https://kbdfans.com/products/cherry-mx-springs-100pcs
short cove
I'm wondering how do you order aftermarket springs for these
frozen anchor
yeah they are same as other switches
short cove
Ah ok thanks
frozen anchor
for springs
frozen anchor
if you need some specific type of weight or something like progressive springs you'll have to buy from sprit though
but kbdfans has most general weights
short cove
Well at least good news that I don't need to just order reds if I want the reds
I can't get the red version so I got the blue one but being able to go back and forth is good
Come to think of it since I can convert back and forth with blue but not red it sounds like getting blue version is the better choice
frozen anchor
the wooting teardown video does say the clickjacket is very tight and shouldnt come off so you could have some issue with that
not sure if you will be able to put it back on after taking it off
hmm
short cove
Ok
frozen anchor
but it also says the clicky noise is just from the leaf
so maybe you can leave the jacket on
you'll have to test that yourself though
short cove
Imma sleep but thx for the info
frozen anchor
alright cya
ivory geyser
The most praised springs tend to be TX and Sprit ones
ivory geyser
It does when you manage to snatch a bad of 100 TX springs for 5$ on the mech market! 
frozen anchor
people say they have less spring ping but any stock prebuilt switch springs are far worse
lol
ivory geyser
I swear to god, this keyboard is making me think quicker than I can write. I keep missing words on it.
frozen anchor
only some nicer switches actually have good springs
ivory geyser
Kinda curious about your thought on Flartechs and filming them.
frozen anchor
but well lubed springs are hard to tell apart still
idk
if they are loose then do it
if they are tight dont
thats all there is to it
ivory geyser
Hmm
ivory geyser
I think I will experiment with 3-4 switches with swapped springs, film and lube.
And put them WSAD.
And see how they perform
Before I spend half a day doing the rest of the keeb
To see just how much is it worth
ivory geyser
Indeed, but I would prefer to get all of it done at once if possible
frozen anchor
and for lube its 100% worth it just do 1 switch and feel the difference
btw what lube are you using
ivory geyser
I will be using the Superlube spray for the springs and then experiment for a while with the Superlube grease for the actual switches - possibly mixing it with a bit of the spray too.
It is incredibly hard to get any of those Krytox lubes in this country without going completely broke.
frozen anchor
hmm
ivory geyser
So I had to improvise with what the local marker had stashed up
frozen anchor
be careful using grease
ivory geyser
Will do.
frozen anchor
you can very very easily put too much
ivory geyser
I heard
"Less is more"
I have a small brush ready for it
I will be going very gently
frozen anchor
when you get some grease on the brush wipe off 90% of it
ivory geyser
Thank you for the tip.
frozen anchor
with other lubes like 3204 or 205g0 youre fine have a lot of it since you can just spread it
but with grease youre fked if you get too much on your switch
ivory geyser
I am assuming it might basically block the rails and the switch wont budge?
frozen anchor
it will feel like youre typing on membrane
ivory geyser
Thank you for the recommendation
frozen anchor
in general you really just dont want to use grease on the actual switches
but if you have to thats what i would do
ivory geyser
Perhaps a blend of the two lubes then?
Assuming they will mix in some reasonable way
frozen anchor
you could just spray out a bunch of the spray lube and dip into it with a brush
frozen anchor
i like my switches to feel fast > buttery smooth personally
so i put very little lube
btw
you should use the grease for the springs
it will be better
also lube your stabs if they are plate clip ins
you dont have to be as careful lubing stabs with grease but still dont overdo it
short cove
You're absolutely right@frozen anchor
I took the spring out and it already converted into a red
frozen anchor
glad to hear that it worked
be sure not to bend the leafs incase you want to convert back
short cove
I just took it out with a tweezer
I'll get a little case to store them
The jacket is fitted well but since there's no springs I don't have any of the click
Which is good
frozen anchor
yeah i wasnt sure since cherry blues use a clickjacket for the actual click
short cove
Well it's basically the same here, the stem has a sliding jacket that actually presses on the spring
These are some well made parts it took me zero strength to open up the switch
frozen anchor
cherry blues dont use a clickleaf for the click is what i mean
the acutal noise is solely the clickjacket
which is also why cherry blues sound awful
short cove
These sound pleasant
frozen anchor
yeah the clickleaf is similar to what alps did
dont think many switches use clickleafs anymore
frozen anchor
eh its a different type of thing and a lot worse
frozen anchor
idk how razer sells any kbs besides the huntsman
short cove
Brand
Well if the conversion is this easy and painless then getting blue is actually the smarter choice
frozen anchor
yeah but still taking apart 90 switches isnt something i would consider painless
short cove
No
frozen anchor
ok then its fine
frozen anchor
yep
i had to take apart 87 nk creams and they are probably some of the tightest switches
and their housings are almost sharp
it was actually painful
short cove
Damn
frozen anchor
by the end i could barely get them open anymore
taking apart and lubing all of them took a little over 4 hrs
frozen anchor
well they are considered contactless since they dont make contact with anything to actuate
you can also lube them to make them even smoother and sound much better
short cove
How do I do that
Do I take it apart and just paste lube over the stem?
Or the surfaces that it will touch
frozen anchor
well for lubing wooting's flaretech switches you want to make sure you only lube the sides of the slider and sides of the stem that touch the slider
short cove
That's easy then
frozen anchor
if you get lube on the optics it could mess things up
short cove
Might go about doing it in the future
frozen anchor
yeah you just need a small brush and some 205g0 or 3204
if you are in the US you can get them from 1upkeyboards for cheap if you buy two vials
not sure about elsewhere
but 2ml can lube 200+ keys
oh and also its worth lubing your stabs
i just put some dielectric grease on them
short cove
Stabs?
frozen anchor
and they have no ping and are smoother
when you take off a key like spacebar theres two dummy switches
short cove
Ah those things
Ok
I had the pleasure of taking all the keys off an ornata before
It actually hurt
frozen anchor
yeah taking off keys without a keypuller sucks
short cove
It's so fucking stiff
empty wren
yeah taking off keys without a keypuller sucks
One can be made from paperclips
short cove
I took em off with my fingers so yay me
I'm more glad I didn't get the huntsman TE then
This level of modularity is great
frozen anchor
be careful pulling keys off your wooting make sure you dont pull off center
short cove
Yeah I pull straight up
frozen anchor
yeah the pc stems can break a lot easier than other switches
short cove
Yeah the clear plastic is much more brittle right
Modelling experience helps a lot
Also helped when I open up the switches with super steady fingers
I suppose the number on the switch roughly denotes the stiffness?
frozen anchor
what number
flaretech 'blues' are 55g bottom out i think
should be the same for reds
and blacks are 80g
frozen anchor
they can be if the pcb has hotswap sockets
short cove
I see
frozen anchor
you can also buy hotswap sockets and solder them on to any pcb but most people would just buy a pcb with hotswap already built in
short cove
Ofc
frozen anchor
btw something to keep in mind is that outemu hotswap sockets and outemu switches are not compatible with normal hotswap and normal switches
short cove
I'll probably just convert all the blues to reds so that I don't have to bother marking them
This has been super useful thanks a lot
frozen anchor
np
short cove
Also thanks to wooting for clear instructions and good modularity
There's like only 2 moving parts at a given time
Wow the lekker switch is even more simple than the reds?
Damn so it should be cheaper right
frozen anchor
well just because it has less moving parts doesnt mean its cheaper to make
also with the lekker the pcb is going to be more expensive
i think the price is totally worth it though
also lekker has better keycaps
the normal wooting caps are just laser abs
short cove
I was thinking the full production version
short cove
Yeah I will
frozen anchor
If you can live without shine through rgb you should get opaque keycaps
They are better
frozen anchor
We'll just know that doubleshots pbt is not two shots of pbt then it comes to shine through keycaps
It's one shot of pbt and then whatever else they put
short cove
Well I presume it's a softer plastic for durability
frozen anchor
It's just that pbt can't be clear
Pbt is much more durable than abs or PC or whatever mixture is used for those keycaps
I doubt they would break but they aren't as nice
short cove
I thought PBT is just more brittle as a result
frozen anchor
Well it won't bend as much so I guess you could say that
But it doesn't matter really because it's strong enough that you won't break it
short cove
So a softer core used in the double shot could be good but this is just on paper
frozen anchor
Well it's a lot easier to make than an actual doubleshot pbt
But you would have to try very hard to break a pure pbt cap
Abs caps can crack at the stems at lot easier
empty wren
It's one shot of pbt and then whatever else they put
😱 Waa
frozen anchor
It's only the letter and underside that isn't pbt so it won't shine but they aren't as durable
short cove
I might be wrong but those "enthusiast" key caps don't look any different from mainstream "gaming brand" ones
frozen anchor
You mean gmk?
empty wren
It's only the letter and underside that isn't pbt so it won't shine but they aren't as durable
Oh that explains a crack
short cove
Vortex
Actually maybe it's better to use double shot because the stem on the flaretech switches are brittle?
Just something I'm thinking about
frozen anchor
That shouldn't be an issue
Even with cheap abs caps the stem of flaretechs will break before the keycap
short cove
I thought maybe using double shot would make it slightly less likely for the stem to break
Softer plastic and all
empty wren
People can pull caps off at an angle
frozen anchor
Unless the caps are out of spec it won't matter
frozen anchor
Yeah wire pullers are really nice
short cove
The included tool scraping on the caps makes me cringe
empty wren
If you do you not probably should be fine I would maybe be worried about quite tight keycap stem ports
frozen anchor
I would be very surprised if plastic keycaps could break the stem of the switch
By being too tight
short cove
I don't doubt that would happen
Clear plastic is always really brittle
Especially if you're doing for a tighter fit
empty wren
By being too tight
Well more so with then later removing then
short cove
The insertion could also put too much stress
empty wren
It could definitely
frozen anchor
I havent
empty wren
Actually yes
short cove
Basically clear plastic is generally harder than stuff like say, ABS
But it's brittle
I suppose the way razer did it is quite smarr
Because it mitigates the issue by making the stem out of a softer plastic
empty wren
You mean typical stem plastic whatever that is or a softer one?
short cove
The typical stem plastic yeah
Of course flaretech could just use double shot on the stem but that could be ludicrous
empty wren
🤣
frozen anchor
Mx caps should be abs but they don't say exactly
Some custom switches use pom or uhmwpe though
Pom stems just squish if you put too much pressure on them though
empty wren
Invyr stem(uhmwpe)
short cove
So apparently the cherry MX stems are made of this type of thermal plastic
frozen anchor
Likely abs
empty wren
Well for a switch it guess it is okay
short cove
It's durable
empty wren
Uhmwpe is still the best though
Lower friction coefficient?
frozen anchor
Yep
Technically ptfe beats it but ptfe isn't durable at all
And uhmwpe is actually extremely durable as well as smooth
empty wren
I might be wrong but those "enthusiast" key caps don't look any different from mainstream "gaming brand" ones
That sounds like a compliment to gaming companies, which keycaps were you looking at?
empty wren
My bad I meant compliment*
empty wren
Oh I heard razer fixed that issue " by listening to feedback "
short cove
Of course I'm referring to just basic caps
frozen anchor
Tbf vortex keycaps don't raise a high bar for 'enthusiast' caps
short cove
Not those super insane expensive "enthusiast" caps
frozen anchor
Gmk caps are best used for kbs that sit on a shelf tbh
Most are abs and will shine quickly
frozen anchor
If you want colorful pbt doubleshot taihou is the best btw
The only gmk caps I actually really like is frost witch
empty wren
If you want colorful pbt doubleshot taihou is the best btw
Just have to wonder if light bleeds through those
frozen anchor
Nope but they do sell pbt keycaps with shine through
empty wren
I did not know 😄 was I supposed to
frozen anchor
It's pretty easy to tell the difference between korean, Chinese, and japanese but I wouldn't really expect most people to know
empty wren
Well I did at least know that was not chinese
frozen anchor
Easy way to tell if something is or isnt korean with 95% certainty is that if there are any full circles it's going to be korean
If there aren't any in any characters it's probably not
But there are some times where Korean won't have that and you can get tricked
It's not too common though
empty wren
Interesting
frozen anchor
Japanese vs Chinese is only difficult if the Japanese is only kanji
Because japanese kanji is literally Chinese characters
short cove
No
Some characters they write it different to both traditional and simplified Chinese
Source: I am Chinese
frozen anchor
Well I just mean it's derived from Chinese characters and they look really similar
It's super obvious it's japanese if theres any kana in it though
short cove
It is derived yeah
short cove
@frozen anchor so the only difference is that the blue switches make some noise because the orange jacket is rattling around
Otherwise it's functionally identical
short cove
Yeah I found out the blue stem has a lot more play
So I just put the springs back in because of the play
What if they made a hybrid stem that has the extra material of the red stem but the wedge for the blue stem
And just leave the spring out of the red switches
short cove
The leaf spring
short cove
I presume they explored this option before
old marlin
And the extra material is where the clickjacket would sit
Flaretech was developed by adomax
Not wooting
short cove
Ik
Just thought hey maybe it would be interesting to standardise on a single stem
And you just need a leaf spring
For the click
short cove
Also the clickjacket is still kinda smaller than the channels they sit in
old marlin
And the linear ones would rattle
short cove
Again I presume they looked into that option before but maybe it wasn't feasible
Otherwise maybe we would have blues that don't rattle
Or that the intention was for the leaf spring to tension the stem so it won't rattle
old marlin
?
Not quite
But it would rattle without
The leaf spring keeps it at a point
Until it snaps the leaf spring out of the way when the stem pushes it
And then slams on the bottom housing
short cove
Yeah I presume they couldn't just put that wedge on the red stem
I'll try to draw what I'm thinking about
old marlin
The click jacket would rattle though
And you get the reduced durability of the clicky switch
short cove
OH I kinda figured why they went for a 2 piece design
Anyway I was saying what if they put that wedge here
But I figured the orange plastic offers better wear resistance
short cove
So the jacket sliding back and forth is necessary?
old marlin
Yes
Unless ypu use a different clicker mechanism
Aka click bar or leaf
Like kailh box clicky or alps clicky
Or outemu low profile clicky
pale sigil
Mention of Outemu is banned here
short cove
What for
pale sigil
Because Outemu
old marlin
They also made all alps switches
And have good high end switches
And the low profile clickies are gimped with the boards they are in
pale sigil
Outamu are like mega blocks
pale sigil
Terrible rip offs
old marlin
Lol
Alps are old
Like similarly old to cherry mx
Was very popular in the 90s
But mx is more durable
Due to dirt resistance
Outemu atm is known for their duatproof switches
short cove
Well I suppose I should get some of those flaretech reds if they get a bit cheaper
pale sigil
They are known for $15 mechs
old marlin
Which are so cheap it is cheaper to make all bowrds hotswap and include extras to replace failing ones
pale sigil
🤣
old marlin
Instead of putting in more durable switches
short cove
Do they ever go below 50 bucks
Those flaretech redd
Kinda want to get some red switches
That and can I buy less than 110 a pack
frozen anchor
@short cove i doubt it unless you could get them second hand somehow
short cove
Ok
frozen anchor
yeah last listing on mech market was 3 months ago
looks like people dont sell often
you could get somebody to proxy them from na wooting store if you need them badly though
short cove
I suppose I can just grab some when they're on sale
They're bound to be on sale at some point
frozen anchor
I want to get a set but I can't justify spending so much
reef patrol
I can - But only on a set for my Ergodox. Decided against it. Just won't look as good on my Ergodox compared to laser. Especially with the UV LEDs I have. 😦
Gorgeous set though
43€ for a single novelty keycap though.... yikes
frozen anchor
yeah
ashen spindle
https://twitter.com/Froyok/status/1278297890104979457 
that's really insane
pale sigil
Budget PSU suggestions?
ashen spindle
what wattage is needed
ashen spindle
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_GMev0EwK37J3zZL98zIqF-OSBuHlFEHmrc_SPuYsjs/edit#gid=0 if you wanna look for your PSU youself this is the best quick look thing that exists afaik
reef patrol
Ah yes - PSU Guru from NZXT. Solid guides.
short cove
nzxt and budget
reef patrol
VERY detailed though.
ashen spindle
its not an offical nzxt guide, doesnt even have info on the nzxt options
short cove
ok
pale sigil
What would you guys suggest budget wise for a system
3300x seems like a good option
With 3000-3200 ram
b450
ashen spindle
purpose of the system, max budget?
pale sigil
500-600 pounds, im seeking more feedback than anything
reef patrol
3300 or 3600. B450 and a pair of 2x8GB 3000Mhz or higher RAM yes.
ashen spindle
only if you can get the 3300x at its supposed price
ashen spindle
3300x >3600 for anything that isn't content creation/similar
pale sigil
PSU i wont keep i guess
reef patrol
If you can find them at a decent price? Sure. It's hard to see a meaningful difference in gaming though
ashen spindle
Permission denied
reef patrol
Looks quite decent.
pale sigil
well it doesn't suck but people like different things
ashen spindle
ye thats fine
reef patrol
I'd go for a 2TB HDD if any at all though at this point 😄
pale sigil
im trying to keep the price as low as possible
thick elk
It does suck, those cheap bitfenix cases have their fan wear out in a year or two generally
reef patrol
But I also have a NAS. My 2TB HDD is 100% for "caching" while I'm too lazy to power on the NAS.
pale sigil
Its a very capable system
ashen spindle
every sub 50$ case sucks imo sadly
thick elk
cheapest I generally recommend though their may be other options is the focus G
thick elk
I just specifically know that that bitfenix case had a tendency to have it's fan die way too fast
pale sigil
im gonna start lowering it via the gpu
after these two builds
How is AMD these days....
For gpus
still poop?
reef patrol
The 5600 and 5700XT are quite decent.
But you won't find a 2080TI equivalent at all.
The 5700XT is roughly on par with a 2070 Super.
thick elk
5700 non xt can also be a good buy and there is still room for the rx 580 if you don't mind the power usage
pale sigil
xt is on par with the 1660 super
so 1660 super is the choice here
Price wise
5700XT doesn't seem much better than the 2070 super
o.0
oh
nvm
im an idiot
i meant 5600XT
is on par and only a little better than the 1660 super
1660 super is really good
for the money
thick elk
5600xt is about the same as the 2060 and decent step up from the 1660 super
pale sigil
i mean
ashen spindle
yea it depends on the game if 2060 or 5600xt wins
ashen spindle
.. yeah because it's competing with the 2060 which is more expensive, the 5600xt is not supposed to be vs the 1660
pale sigil
This kid is coming from a PS4 so no matter what its an improvement xD
its amazing what you can get for budget these days
reef patrol
Mhmm. I just helped put together two PCs over these past few days.
A completely new one. 3600/5700XT,16GB RAM, 1TB NVME. No expensives gaming PC with a 165hz monitor.
And then a cheap af upgrade from a prebuilt. 9400f, GTX 970 used, 16GB RAM.
pale sigil
what would you suggest for the lower bracket
thick elk
I also helped with 1 yesterday
pale sigil
below 1660 super
thick elk
rx 580 / 570, 590 if it costs the same as the 580
reef patrol
I'm really not great at that price bracket. My assumptions would be the RX 500 cards 😄
pale sigil
the gtx 1650 looks awful
ashen spindle
tbh thats getting close to just using an APU
reef patrol
And no - I didn't pick the 9400f because good. But because I have a B365 I'm tossing his way to reduce costs. Ryzen would be more.
thick elk
another thing but that may just be personal preference, I would go with a single ssd instead of ssd + hdd, even 1tb one can costs only a little more than this combo
zenith sonnet
I'd say go with a 3600 for the CPU over the 3300X
And then a 5600 XT, and 16 GiB of Trident Z Neo (Hynix version)
pale sigil
it got a bit messy
xD
5600 XT costs way more mate e
i got used to putting games on my SSD
thick elk
with storage it's also a thing that generally with newer drives lower capacities like 250gb are slower
pale sigil
250gb is perfectly fine
thick elk
I'd personally either go with a single 500gb or a single 1tb and spend less than £ 10 extra over the 1.25tb picked now
zenith sonnet
If your budget can't fit a 5600 XT, what are you trying to build exactly?
thick elk
at this price point I would generally just downcost the motherboard as well
ashen spindle
ye but there are cheaper b450s
ashen spindle
yes but there are cheaper b450s
thick elk
cheaper still has a nvme slot, sure you would not want an high powered cpu in there but it will do its job
also if the aim is mostly gaming making some sacrifices on the cpu department in favor of a better gpu can be worth it.
This price point is all about compremises.
If you want to put in a decent motherboard + 3600 performance is going to suffer
ashen spindle
3600 makes no sense for gaming if 3300x is in stock
reef patrol
Oh wow. It's actually faster.
This 3300X completely passed me by 😄
(Quickly adjusts tomorrow's order)
ashen spindle
faster not really, but within 1 % sometimes
reef patrol
I see a consistent 1-10fps improvement in quick video comparisons at 1080P
And it's cheaper.
By a significant margin at that. 😄
fickle ore
4700x in october gang
pale sigil
7700k gang
sick creek
is that really coming out
ashen spindle
well, we dont know 100% but evverything points to zen3 this year yes
zenith sonnet
130€ vs 160€ here
Makes the 3600 a better deal
sick creek
i'm still very happy with my 3800x
reef patrol
This is what makes me go "Yeah we're getting the 3300X"
fickle ore
and fyi, dont look at SP benchmarks if you play multiplayer games and vice versa
zenith sonnet
AMD confirmed Zen 3 this year multiple times
pale sigil
the main thing tho with the 3300x
is the core count
if you wand to do anything thats multicore the 3600 is better
reef patrol
Games that use 6/12 is... nonexistant more or less 😄
fickle ore
not rly
pale sigil
anything thats multicore
sick creek
jayztwocents just did a video called "why do people still buy intel" that addressed the "multicore" semi-fallacy
zenith sonnet
Nah, there's plenty of games that benefit from more than 4 cores
fickle ore
^
reef patrol
I have yet to see it 😄
ashen spindle
for that price range the 3300x is just way better
sick creek
3300x probs just has better single core perf
pale sigil
cries in 7700k
zenith sonnet
It does not
thick elk
What types of heavier workloads does he run that would benefit from the core count enough to make the sacrifice elsewhere worth it
zenith sonnet
It's on par in 1T
fickle ore
everything has shit €/perf so close to 4000 series launch tbh
zenith sonnet
And 50% slower in nT
ashen spindle
false bc we dont know the zen3 prices
fickle ore
in the end it's all just opinions so you can't say false 😄
reef patrol
Grabbing the 3300X. Done 😄
ashen spindle
3300x probably slipped under your radar bc it was from the same time when the b450 drama happend
so once again amd managed to be the best at hurting their own product
reef patrol
shadow minnow
reef patrol
Plenty in stock here 😄
thick elk
oh looking at the pc partpicker posted, the uk price difference between the two is much smaller it seems just £ 32, that balances the scales a bit differently
reef patrol
Oh?
thick elk
generally I'd think most bioses are updated on the cards in the stores right now
ashen spindle
yeah basically all b450 are updated for zen2
reef patrol
Didn't you pick a USB flashable card?
thick elk
do note that they often need a newer bios for the 3300 than for the 3600 but it should still be fine
pale sigil
Thats what im saying
3300x not all mobos will support it
right away
which is a pain in the ass
thick elk
all motherboards have had the bios update and I expect with all the shortages going on that all the motherboards in the stores right now support it
reef patrol
A mobo with flashback will definitely help you speed things up.
I have older Ryzen chips so not an issue for me.
thick elk
last option though a bit slower is the Short Term Processor Loan Boot Kit amd can ship to you which causes a bit of a delay.
reef patrol
They still do those?
thick elk
seems the amd site still mentioned it: https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/faq/pa-100
actually updated for ryzen 3000
wheat plume
OOOO gimme
this configuration does'nt include any operating system~
Perfect!!
Save 120 pounds
ashen spindle
you dont pay that much for OEM windows anyway
wheat plume
🤔
wheat plume
save the 80!
old marlin
wtf
you pay that much for windows
I can legally get a copy for 40 euros
privately
home saves you another 4 euros
frozen anchor
just buy pro its better
frozen anchor
yeah just mean since you said home saves you 4 euros
old marlin
yea
frozen anchor
i dont think its worth it to go for home
old marlin
would be 36 euros
old marlin
work does not mean legal
frozen anchor
they are just leftover oem keys
microsoft could cancel your key
but its not actually illegal to buy these
pale sigil
@wheat plume thats the price without windows btw
fair gull
microsoft partner
40€ for pro key
hmm....
since i am ms partner
i can vouch that there is no way in hell to get keys that cheap
id have to buy MAK keys
and sell them as single keys
reef patrol
40 euros?
old marlin
well
reef patrol
Spend 3 bucks on eBay 😄
fair gull
mak keys are also legit
just
that if i buy MAK keys
and sell them as seperate ones
id be breaching my contract with MS
thick elk
From what I understand those bulk deals are keys made for oems resold separately.
They are detected and work fine but they are a breach of the license agreement.
fair gull
if i remember correct a digital key for pro costs me 80€ directly from MS
if i buy a system builder disk
its 120
plus the dumb dvd
old marlin
I mean
you can ask MS themselves
lizengo is legit
they got into legal trouble once for selling them in retail
which they aren't allowed
frozen anchor
@thick elk well i know thats what sites like kinguin sell
thick elk
yea any key that is cheap sadly falls under that category.
Generally for a simple end user that's fine but for a company not so much.
reef patrol
They sell those generated keys. Or Windows 7 keys xD
pale sigil
Case = Cyberpower ONYXIA Mid-Tower Black Gaming Case w/ USB 3.0, Front & Side Tempered Glass
Extra_Fans = Maximum Airflow with 3 x 120mm LED Coloured Cooling Fans for your selected case (Blue Colour) Fans Only (no upgrade)
CPU = AMD Ryzen 3 3300X - 4-Core 3.8GHz, 4.3GHz Turbo - 16MB L3 Cache (No On-board Graphics)
Overclocking = No Overclocking
Cooler = AMD Ryzen Wraith CPU Cooler
Motherboard = MSI B450-A Pro MAX: ATX w/ RGB, USB 3.1, SATA3, 1x M.2
M2 = None Selected
M2nd = None Selected
SSD = 250GB Samsung 860 EVO 2.5" SSD - 550MB/s Read / 520MB/s Write 1 Drive
HDD = 1TB Seagate BarraCuda SATA-III 6.0Gb/s 7200RPM Hard Drive 1 Drive
RAID = None Selected
RAM = 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4/3200mhz Dual Channel Memory HyperX Fury w/Heat Spreader
GPU = ASUS GeForce® GTX 1660 SUPER 6GB - DX12®, VR Ready, HDMI, DP - 3 Monitor Support Single Card
PSU = Corsair CV650 650W 80+ Bronze Gaming Power Supply
PSU_Braided_Cables = None Selected
Wifi = N300 Wireless PCI Express Adapter
[Total Price]
PRICE = £662 (exc vat)
You know
for a pre build
fair gull
Ist Lizengo seriös? Die Rechtslage
Die Software-Lizenzen, die durch den Online-Shop von Lizengo verkauft werden, stammen zum Großteil aus dem Überschuss von Volumenlizenzen, die an Firmenkunden verkauft wurden.
im kinda impressed
fair gull
ya as i thought
its just MAK keys that were left over
aka they do breach agreements on the licenses
which doesnt invalidate the key
pale sigil
@ashen spindle
fair gull
but if u use those keys commercially u could face legal consequences
pale sigil
PSU im iffy about tho
ashen spindle
looks fine
old marlin
yea not telling you to resell them
pale sigil
And single fan gpu
fair gull
commercial use already means using them as a company
frozen anchor
well then its the same as kinguin and similar sites
fair gull
those keys pmuch entail possible legal consequences for any company using them on their company owned pcs
fair gull
privately windows doesnt care
old marlin
reef patrol
whispers - Stop caring about paying so much for keys. Just buy a 3 buck one
fair gull
microsoft cant care less if dude #3497263478912364 uses those
@reef patrol privately id say sure... but as a company id say no
old marlin
we got a mail from the CEO of rittal that they use them and other business should too
reef patrol
Who has a company here looking for keys though? Wasn't this FOR private use? 😄
frozen anchor
just dont activate windows 4head
old marlin
they aren;t a small company for sure
fair gull
i mean the city i live in and that i provide with keys had 2 license checks already
pale sigil
Who has a company here looking for keys though?
The amount of keys
i had to log
for each system
everytime i setup laptops etc
oml
fair gull
same
reef patrol
Never had to deal with that. Laptops include keys 😄
fair gull
not necessarily
pale sigil
No
reef patrol
They are round here 😄
pale sigil
And yes
fair gull
hp, dell and lenovo really like to sell freedos systems
pale sigil
^
reef patrol
Never seen those. But I also worked in retail, not corporate corporate 😄
pale sigil
We used to get either ones with W8 on or no OS
fair gull
i also work in retail
some as u can see W10P
windows 10 pro
and other oBS
ohne Betriebsystem (without Operating system)
reef patrol
Interesting. Never seen those 😄
wheat plume
German word for OS translates directly to work system.
Interesting
reef patrol
Styresystem - Guidance System here
zenith sonnet
I would not directly translate Betriebssystem to 'work system', operating system is a more literal translation
thick elk
besturingssysteem - which is probably a direct translation from of operating system.
Control system would also be a literal translation
ashen spindle
image reverse search or some chinese unblocker
vagrant marsh
well, so far so good
my pc booted up normally. sound card doesnt crash
so...not 3600 but 3533 XD
vagrant marsh
which is weird. its such a small difference. why would my system be stable at 3533 but not 3600
shadow minnow
Are you talking about ram or CPU?
vagrant marsh
ram
ah wait, my sound card just did the channel switch. speaking of the devil. meaning 3533 also still isnt stable
shadow minnow
What voltage are they on?
vagrant marsh
1.35
shadow minnow
Also what CPU u have?
vagrant marsh
ryzen 3600
shadow minnow
What die is that memory?
vagrant marsh
die? no idea
shadow minnow
Ik that Samsung b die is safe up to 1.45/1.5 v but not sure if it will not damage your memory / memory controller
What timings are you at?
vagrant marsh
The xmp profile. 16 19 19 39 58
How would i even change ram voltage
Dram voltage ch a/b?
shadow minnow
What were advertised speed and timing of memory?
vagrant marsh
That timing with 3600mhz, but system is unstable at 3600. Causing startup boot and eventually bios reset
Otherwise, pc works fine
shadow minnow
How would i even change ram voltage
@vagrant marsh in bios, 1.36/1.37 should help and should be safe but not sure
vagrant marsh
Yes i know bios, duh, but which one
shadow minnow
That timing with 3600mhz, but system is unstable at 3600. Causing startup boot and eventually bios reset
@vagrant marsh what were advertised timings? Mean CL ones
vagrant marsh
Dram voltage ch a/b?
I got no clue man. My old bios used to simply say memory voltage
Now they call it 5 different things
shadow minnow
Going to check it
Think it is DRAM voltage
But not surprised it does not boot
At 1.2v
vagrant marsh
Its set at auto
You cant see the panel to the right, but that one says a/b voltage 1.38
K im gonna adjust it from auto to 1.37 and put the xmp profile on auto instead of 3533. Lets see if my system stays normal. Tho the instability mostly wont happen until the next morning when i start the pc again
But as i said, my sound card crashing seems to be a good measurement as to when my memory has reached its limit
well, system booted up without a problem
hmm. hwinfo cant confirm tho. it doesnt show actual voltage put, only voltage according to certified profile
shadow minnow
But you should change System agent voltage
auto is not always safe
Should be called soc voltage
Set it to 1.1 if stable, auto bad @vagrant marsh
vagrant marsh
set what to 1.1?
shadow minnow
Think it is called Vcore soc not sure yet
vagrant marsh
vcore soc auto is at 1.1
shadow minnow
Mb can imo change it as it is auto, rather set it manually
To be safe
Also, you can get bit higher with OC if you increase voltage. 1.45 and even 1.5 should be safe so try to get 3800mhz and if stable, adjust timings to get them lower.
vagrant marsh
nah, im fine with 3600mhz
i first wanna try to have a stable system with the memory at the clock i bought it at :p
shadow minnow
I bought 4266mhz CL19 1.4v kit of memory, looking forward to OC it, but am waiting for next gen CPUs 😄
vagrant marsh
but yea, 3600 memory, set at custom 1.37v now
lets see how it work out
when my sound card glitches, i know it aint stable :p
thick elk
I still need to fine tune my oc but 32gb generally doesn't clock that well.
I can get 3800 at t2 command rate or 3500 at t1 but I should still fine tune it more someday.
It's not like faster memory matters that much on intel anyway.
shadow minnow
But it is fun to OC
thick elk
true but I wish I had infinite time
ivory geyser
Why not?
fair gull
because usually u dont wnna do the same shit from work in ur freetime
cause then it feels just like work
and doing ur freetime shit as work
wont make it feel like freetime
cause work implies that you are doing smth for someone else
be it a customer or employer or both
its the reason why i wont do a full on software engineering career
id really like to keep my freetime for coding
cause i enjoy it
fair gull
ya no id be totally done with coding in my free time if i d had to for work aswell
that would be like 16hrs of coding each day
id rather not
ivory geyser
shrugs
I work as a freelancer, so the normal 9-5 work-shifts dont really apply to my lifestyle.
fair gull
not sure if id personally call that work like i meant
ivory geyser
Welp... it is still work, just not the normal standard work-shift schedule.
fair gull
and most likely also not payment wise
ivory geyser
Depends on well the month turns out.
vagrant marsh
i enjoy my work. so much so im willing to do overtime. as long as im getting paid, ofcourse. but because of the stupid corona, im not allowed to do overtime, because of special laws in place. due to corona, companies get hit, so they get compensated for the money they lost in revenue. but if your employees have to do overtime, it means they are busy enough, and cant get compensated.
bitch government, because of you we lost revenue because you locked everything up, you better compensate us. but now that corona is almost gone in europe, factories start up, have to make up for delayed orders, and we are now loaded in work. but no, the government forces us to not do overtime
i thought the reason for the corona measures was to make sure the economy could recover asap. then let us recover. fuck
politics. never figured what they were good for, other than entertainment watching them call eachother cunts
supple basin
@here anyone seen this yet? I just saw it now: https://www.coolermaster.com/catalog/peripheral/keyboards/controlpad/
shadow minnow
False marketing and overpriced
But would be interesting to see on what level is their software to control analog
But I doubt it will be as good as wootility
supple basin
They're saying it's optical-mechanical switches using led reflectivity for the analog. They started it on Kickstarter. 🤐
shadow minnow
They are cooler master, not sure why they needed Kickstarter
reef patrol
Just a way to get exposure for free these days. And pre-orders.
shadow minnow
But what is annoying, they market it as first pressure sensitive keyboard
- There were some prototypes of analog keyboards even in 2009
old marlin
I mean
if you want CM analog
same tech is in the MK850
costs more than a wooting two by quite a bit
and only has 8 analog keys
switches are mx red though
old marlin
laser 
modo 2 is live
also gmk laser shipping will be delayed
won't go out this year for sure
reef patrol
Eh. As long as it arrives 
shadow minnow
Pepelaugh TeaTime
halcyon moss
what is HWS?
zenith sonnet
Hardware accelerated GPU scheduling
The lastest AMD driver added support for it
But only on 5700/XT and 5600/XT cards
Still in beta, doesn't work flawlessly on every configuration/game yet
Also, Microsoft seems to turn it on/off for select users to get more data about what differences it makes 🤔
halcyon moss
ah i can use that! 🙂
reef patrol
Ended up with the following.
Ryzen 3300X
B450 Aorus Elite
RX 5700 XT (Powercooler Red)
2x8GB Vengeance 3200 CL16
1TB A2000 NVME
VS650 (I can't recommend this - Go for a modular version)
Corsair 100R 'ish case (OEM part) no glass, no RGB
AOC C27G1 Monitor.
Oh and an A500 Corsair cooler I had lying around anyhow.
ashen spindle
neat
reef patrol
Total cost.... 1350€
That's with shipping and assembly. Plus some overclocking and a Windows 7 key Win 10 install from me 😄
halcyon moss
is the 3300x powerful enough for a 5700xt?
reef patrol
Yep
halcyon moss
neat
reef patrol
You basically need the nVidia only cards to see an FPS difference.
Maybe 10-15FPS difference on a 2080TI
We paid about 70€ to order the parts locally where I used to work. Much easier RMA in the future.
halcyon moss
until games become more thread heavy i guess
but that board has a good upgrade path
reef patrol
The 3300X is cheap. If we reach that point, I'll probably buy it off of him, and he'll grab a 4000 series.
He's not a hardcore gamer.
I built him a machine with the RX480 two years ago? which his wife is now inheriting.
halcyon moss
my previous machine was doing mostly fine with a 4thgen quadcore intel and a 970. but the cpu was below minspecs...
old marlin
3300X is basically a 3600X with half the cores
halcyon moss
for battlefield v
old marlin
quite a capable cpu
halcyon moss
hardly played it on my new machine :p
halcyon moss
i love that there is this cheaper stuff now
ashen spindle
ye, with tgl/ampere/rdna2 we should have cheap and good stuff from everyone again finally
competition yay!
reef patrol
Half the cores? Two thirds 😄
shadow minnow
Where can you get windows 10 pro key (that is not OEM) from authorized shop, for cheapest?
ivory geyser
piratebay
shadow minnow
Does not sound legal to me
frozen anchor
buy it straight from windows
if you want cheaper you have to buy from a non-official store
old marlin
@reef patrol 
rip brain
shadow minnow
260 too much
It must be cheaper somewhere 😄, I have heard someone talking about 40$ legal key
frozen anchor
its legal to buy those cheap keys
any legal issues are put on the seller
but you could get your key deactivated but they never do
shadow minnow
So what is at least normal store where I will get working key (I mean not G2A but sth normal)
reef patrol
If it's for business use, licensing can be quite a pain.
frozen anchor
uh
i used kinguin for a key
you need to call microsoft to get them to activate it though
but its only $30
shadow minnow
Someone was suggesting some store with 40$ key few days before, who was it?
frozen anchor
that was yama
ashen spindle
kinguin is basically just g2a but less known
frozen anchor
the site yama suggested does the same as all the other cheap key sites
frozen anchor
yeah thats it
old marlin
@ashen spindle g2a is in fact much worse
ashen spindle
yes they did more shady stuff bc they got bigger
old marlin
both not great
ashen spindle
but kinguin is also a shit site
frozen anchor
not sure if other sites do this but kinguin guarentees a new key for free if your key doesnt work
old marlin
ashen spindle
yes thats what shady sites do because they know they have fault keys/keys that will get blocked
bc it makes them look much better and costs them less in the end
shadow minnow
@old marlin is there English version of that lizengo website?
frozen anchor
just use any cheap key site they are all basically the same
ashen spindle
ye
shadow minnow
Can you get lizengo’s key working without calling Microsoft?
frozen anchor
you wouldnt call microsoft to save $10?
shadow minnow
Also, can you set language of that windows when activated with lizengo key? @old marlin
old marlin
frozen anchor
use google chrome so you can at least read some of it
fair gull
@shadow minnow i could have given u a free pro key
fair gull
from my ms partner portal
anyone else in need of a win10 pro key (its really a win7 pro key i never used but still have in my partner protal)
free btw
pale sigil
@fair gull me or well a kid who just bought a pc without an os
would greatly apreciate it
shadow minnow
Where do you get all these from? 😄 Do you get them free from that partner portal?
fair gull
no
we ordered them
but i cant sell those anymore
cause that would mean id be technically selling win10 with a win7 key
which i cant do due to license and partner agreements
shadow minnow
So you have got some 7pro keys leftover if I understand correctly?
fair gull
pmuch
thats also usually how other key stores offer them so cheap
just forgotten, unused or not fully used keys
be it MAK or normal keys
sometimes even OEM
scraped of of scrap metal
halcyon moss
hmm i have a unvalidated win 10 🙂
reef patrol
🚔
vagrant marsh
running my memory at 3600mhz again but at 1.40 volts instead of the 1.35 of the xmp profile
fuck it, im gonna try it. maybe it is the voltage thats causing the instability, i got no freaking clue right now. just trying my options
ashen spindle
could be, gl
reef tundra
Microsoft aint caring much about having a licence anymore. The data makes the profit