Eh. OC is reaching a point where it's kind of overrated.
#🔌│tech
ashen spindle
zen 3 will be better for oc bc its not a node jump so its not readjusted
tgl will be bad for OC bc 10nm sucks dog pile
chrome estuary
i did it, it's on it's way
shadow minnow
I know it will not boost performance too much, but I want to have fun with OC 😄 @reef patrol
shadow minnow
I do not know 😄
But I do not like it, I just like simply looking cases - like fractal design ones...
chrome estuary
I actually don't want a tempered glass case
my glass window for my case faces the wall
old marlin
well give me a case with similar quality for less money
P400A maybe?
also TG
quality is worse iirc
but still has it's benefits
ashen spindle
spend hours trying to find error in network code... turns out windows firewall was the culprit fml
solar hinge
i hate how you can no longer turn off windows firewall permanently
it pissed me off soooo much
solar hinge
if i were to do that, i could just as well take out half my brain
wheat plume
And have almost 0 hardware support
wheat plume
Nah
ashen spindle
and all info online on network code is old af c/c++ proggers who hate any change beyond c++ 99
ashen spindle
with the worst names for variables bc they still think they need to save memory on varaible names
fair gull
worked flawless
ashen spindle
I meant that as in a lot of info on c++ questions is answers that use C
fair gull
cause c is better
as much as i hate saying it but linus torvalds is right
c++ is garbage that caters to people who just cant let go of OOP
ashen spindle
not like I am in a position where I can change what the industry uses lmao
and my issues I had in c++ are not oop caused or anything
fair gull
i doubt that
cause cpp uses oop so heavily in its headers
imports
or whatever they were called in c++
ashen spindle
sure, it might be the causes of string handling being hot garbage compared to c# but I doubt oop is causing bad documentation of functions and co lmao
reef patrol
Mines been off for months 
ashen spindle
easy af compared to C#?
fair gull
imo both equally easy
actually
c++ is closer to c# than c
but id say c and c# are equally easy
if u understand the concept of strings that is
ashen spindle
yes but in c# I can just use @$"" to have everything work and change/modify strings, I dont need any char* to stringstream casts and need to be wary of x specific things when converting stuff, I have an Encoding namespace to work on it etc.
fair gull
thats called abstraction and thats what causes programs in highly abstracted languages to run slower
ashen spindle
yes I said easy to use, i dont care about performance when sending a handful of tcp/udp packages to make a lobby
ashen spindle
no that's the wrong way of optimization, why would I care about making something that takes a couple milliseconds run faster, if in general I will have stuff that runs much slower, there is where optimization is first needed
fair gull
lol
well you do you and i will keep believing in what i know from having seen MMO server source code
of games that have nice running servers
ashen spindle
like sure I can also make use of SIMD when sending two udp packages to reduce it from two to potentially one cpu cycles, but why care about that part when I will have parts that take multiple seconds
fair gull
so why dont u write ur precious server in c# then?
clearly theres a reason u chose cpp
ashen spindle
yes it's a project where multiple people work on, it's not a hobby project, and the .net core functions we would need seem to not work well yet
fair gull
i give up
wheat plume
shadow minnow
lol, snapdragon chip gets that lot of cooling and still has problem beating apple’s last years A13. 😄
fair gull
uknow thats a rather worthless point to make right
both are used with different OSs and kernels
so theres no fair comparison to be made
old marlin
guess all the fortnite players will stay on ios then 
wheat plume
they also lock Fortnite to 30FPS on Android -.-
idk why
even on a snapdragon 845 and above
reef patrol
I guess to counter "unfair" playing field. You know... what we call PCs 😄
empty wren
Some Android phones got 60FPS for Fortnite
old marlin
oh uhhhh
old marlin
who cares about high power phones then?
empty wren
Apparently it is a exclusivity thing imagine that
reef patrol
So I guess that means it's Epic that limits it?
empty wren
Yep
old marlin
probably their samsung deal
empty wren
Well Huawei too
wheat plume
oh, you paid 900 for your phone? well fuck you! we dotn approve of that phone, get locked at 30FPS you fuck
reef patrol
Sounds like a LOT of work, unless they just accept dollars for certain gaming branded phones.
empty wren
Or they could just enable in a general sense
Because the game is horrendous on android
ashen spindle
or they at first just had it out with 30fps cap and then removed it later on after they improved it?
there are options to play it with 90 fps on android now
empty wren
Exactly would have been nice
Hell PUBG allows 120
And I think some phones are allowed 144
And more phones can play that than fornite
ashen spindle
so pubg just allowed a higher cap and fortnite waited until they could make sure the game can consistently hit it
wheat plume
Fornite from the play store is 7.5GB
AND you need to keep the app open or itll start from the beginning again
-.-
ashen spindle
that seems like a non issue?
wheat plume
it has to be on screen
ashen spindle
if you do something else during a BR you're probably not alrive right now
wheat plume
if you have shitty download speed like I do, youll not be able to use your phone until it downloads 7.5GB
ashen spindle
oh you meant the download
ashen spindle
anti cheat measures I guess?
reef patrol
Wasn't that to circumvent in app purchase taxes?
ashen spindle
no that was when they let you download it from their site and not the store only
reef patrol
ashen spindle
you used to need to download the .apk from the epic website, wasn't on the store to not pay store cut
wheat plume
it only got added to the store about a month ago
ashen spindle
google strongarmed them iirc
wheat plume
hmm
sacred shoal
not sure how google can strongarm them since I'm pretty sure you're legally in the clear distributing whatever you want to android systems not via google's repo
wheat plume
my snapdragon 845 phone has only 20 or 30FPS options in Fortnite
yet the iPhone 5 can have the option for 60FPS 🤔 wtf is going on with this shit
sacred shoal
per core speed on the snapdragon chipsets is kinda eh even on the biggest core
sacred shoal
yeah but a lot of older android phones wouldn't be able to
sacred shoal
and if you have a 60fps setting and you don't get 60fps some dumbass would whine
wheat plume
true... -.-
but they do it on iPhone
I refuse to believe an iphone 5S can do 60FPS
crimson wigeon
iPhone hardware is great and well defined
And the software side is good too
How long did it take Android to get anywhere near as smooth?
ashen spindle
its also a bit like pc vs consoles, weaker console can get more performance because its not 50 billion different hardware combinations
shadow minnow
@wheat plume I think it can
shadow minnow
My 6s plus can do fortnite/PUBG at max available details with highest refresh rate.
wheat plume
🤔
shadow minnow
Also pubg mobile
Friend bought huawei 20 lite
Lowest details, and it was so lagging. He had maybe 10-20
And my older 6s plus on highest details 60
ashen spindle
(and also the reason they probably disable it on certain chips)
bc good luck explaining to mobile players how 1% lows make it lag when it still says 60fps
zenith sonnet
They definitely tweak settings on consoles that aren't usually exposed on PC
They know the hardware and can specifically tweak things that cause 1% lows
For example, falling back to a lower texture qualify for a scene because loading takes too long on the hardware
empty wren
Well also seeing games ported out to PC and still sucking really makes it even worse.
ashen spindle
nah itll be a bit cheaper
zenith sonnet
There's A520 for cheaper boards
ashen spindle
yeah with barely any features and prob not even decent ram speeds
ashen spindle
but how does it justify the higher prices over 450, not like it gets much more
zenith sonnet
I think getting more/better features than X470 for the same price is a good deal, already
ashen spindle
you must've seen a different b550 chipset diagram then?
zenith sonnet
GN did a video on it
ashen spindle
I know im looking at their table with chipset features rn
you have 4 possible fewer usb ports, gen3 instead of gen2 general purpose pcie lanes, and while you have 10 vs 8, those extra two come from being able to use them as SATA, but 470 had 2 sata express which equals 4x SATA
wheat plume
Manjaro claims their XFCE edition is the flagship version, yet all their screenshots on the website are from the Plasma version
ashen spindle
anyone here have experience with a mobile air conditioning unit? or know what sites to trust for reviews about them?
thick elk
I don't think there are a lot of reviews. I'd say just look for red flags among customer reviews and mostly look at cooling capacity and noise.
In generally these portable airco's are pretty loud and inefficent but certianly better than nothing.
anyway off to bed.
ashen spindle
yeah I didnt plan on getting one but with me being stuck in home office I'm sure it will be worth it
shadow minnow
Is there any problem in doing push-pull with two different kind of fans that have quite similar performance?
orchid silo
@shadow minnow Push-pull can do marvels with fat rads. It's not that needed with 30mm rads, but with 60mm+ rads you pretty much have to use push-pull.
shadow minnow
The fans have same cfm, but quite different (one 2.5 one 4) static pressure
The thing is that I am (probably) going to buy NZXT kraken x73, and also Corsair ML fans, so I was wondering if I should not do push/pull configuration, with NZXT fans pushing and Corsair ones pulling
thick elk
The radiator on the kraken x73 is too thin to really benefit from push-pull
shadow minnow
But still better than put that left fans in trash 😄
thick elk
push-pull only really helps when there is a lot of resistance in the radiator itself, with a thin radiator like in most AIO's it won't really help much while being louder.
At that point you would be better off with a bit faster fans.
The rated static preasure and cfm are not something you can directly compare, manufacturers don't compare them in exactly the same way.
Even if they did it would still not be very useful as cfm is the completely unhindered airflow and static presure the presure the fan can give when blocked 100%.
What actually matters is the curve that lays between those two points which may still be very different at the same maximum static presure and maximum airflow.
As for putting the fans in the trash, there is really no point in keeping them.
shadow minnow
Push pull will improve temps a little bit, and also airflow a little bit. 😄
Better than nothing
thick elk
it will also make the system louder
putting 5k rpm delta fans in will also improve airflow significantly
shadow minnow
That is not true. Push pull configs are known for ability to keep same temps with lower noise
thick elk
It can when the radiator is impeding airflow enough for it to be worthwile. As far as I know for the typical AIO this is not the case.
If you have a thick 60mm radiator or a big dual tower cooler yes it is worthwile.
shadow minnow
And what about that first question, is there any problems in having these different fans? 😄
thick elk
not really as far as I know.
However if the amount of air the fans move differs significantly you will make one of the fans do all the work and create the noise while the other one does nothing
shadow minnow
Is there any way to get to know power consumption of fans, so I know that fans are running properly
thick elk
I don't know of any software to do that. you could of course get a multimeter in between there to measure but that would probably be a hassle.
feral jolt
zenith sonnet
Someone made a render of the leaks?
torpid monolith
Lamo imagine that
ashen spindle
I didnt know about the gtx 295 before so I didnt know such design has a second fan so I was mad we'd get a weird blower style cooler again lmao
old marlin
gtx 295 was blower
had 2 pcbs though
which is why it looked how it looked
you basically have a GPU sandwhich
with PCBs as the bread
and cooler with whatever is between it
pale sigil
pretty cool ngl
old marlin
there was a single PCB version later on iirc
similar deisgn to the gtx 590
or titan z
steel topaz
yea
pale sigil
GPU prices neeed to chill
tough stag
Im looking for a battery powered bluetooth mic
Shouldnt be that hard.
So many headsets neckbands inears
i just want a simple mic
tough stag
yeah, been looking at that
steel topaz
np
steel topaz
oh
steel topaz
microphine?
pale sigil
tough stag
@steel topaz dont mind dm .. but yea .. i wanna use it like a headset thign
tough stag
@pale sigil thats interesting
pale sigil
v
Also an option if you have that sort of headset
these are also quite impressive
tough stag
They have an audio mode where audio quality is quite nice.
pale sigil
i used a poundshop one for years
steel topaz
oh
tough stag
the problem is as soon as you start talking to someone they switch to trash audio
steel topaz
i have this misrphone
tough stag
so the idea is to use them as audio receivers and use a seperate mic
steel topaz
tough stag
None of the available in ear headsets allow for good mic and good audio quality
steel topaz
its a recording microphone and a streaming 1
its a good quility micrphone
i have another micrphone pluged in right now here
tough stag
Trying to go full wireless
steel topaz
yea
tough stag
so i can move around the house .. keep voice link and audio link
steel topaz
they are hard to come by
steel topaz
yea
pale sigil
I myself use a snowball
tough stag
i got receive working for 10+ hours
pale sigil
With a arm thing
tough stag
fixed mic
nice
Well that would be an option
but i got the wooting two and the clicky switches 😄
Also the thick keycaps
so my keyboard is rly annoying for ppl in my teamspeak
😄
Hence why i try to move the mic closer to my mouth
crimson wigeon
Time for some of that RTX VOICE
old marlin
I finally stopped using my modmic
pale sigil
My mic never picks up my keyboard
tough stag
i need a mic that does not picup my keyboard
tough stag
dono what msot and carbiod is .. but i guess its directional sensitivity
steel topaz
what?
tough stag
@steel topaz those are UHF mics .. very sensitive to rf interference and have a high noise lvl
steel topaz
oh damm
tough stag
you can math out the noise if you record background noise and subtract from the signal
tough stag
but its lots of tinkering .. everytime you use the mic
steel topaz
...
old marlin
if noise was that easy
tough stag
not easy at all. Deconvolution is tough math
rode go is quite popular at the moment
but its like 200 bucks
frozen anchor
If you want decently nice audio and a mic arm something like this is probably worth it https://www.amazon.com/TONOR-Microphone-Condenser-Recording-Podcasting/dp/B07JMYG6LF/
young flicker
Not to derail the conversation but can anyone here enlighten me on the subject of liquid coolant? I’ve seen so many conflicting opinions about whether distilled water with a biocide is good, whether you need a corrosion inhibitor, and whether premixes are good that I’m kind of lost.
reef patrol
I can certainly try. 🙂
Premixed products (or ones that tell you to add water) are basically just water and biocide/corrosion inhibitors and dye.
Using distilled water and a biocide should be just as good as something like EK clear in theory. Their mix may be more tuned than your DIY solution though.
Personally I used EK's navy blue transparent coolant for two years with zero issues (aside from a bit of blue staining on the blocks afterwards) followed by a year of using their new Solid stuff.
The Solid stuff left a thin layer of white residue when I drained it, but it didn't impede performance. I am now using Solid purple as of a month ago.
TLDR;
Safest bet is using a premix.
If you know how to measure distilled/demineralized water and biocide in right ratios is fine.
Solid coolants need more maintenance - Stay far away from the "VUE", which is a weekend length show coolant. Not for longterm.
young flicker
Thank you. I'm going for clear anyway so after hearing a few complaints about CryoFuel Clear and some praises for Mayhems biocide distilled seemed like an easy choice. Until I got to the people arguing about inhibitors being necessary or not, then saw that Mayhems makes like 5+ biocides. I wouldn't have a problem measuring out the ratio but I'll probably just go with the premix. What do you recommend for flushing the loop/radiators before filling the loop for use? Vinegar is apparently not good with some things, CryoFuel included.
@reef patrol Whenever you get time, I just realized how long it had been since you answered my first question. This is literally the last thing to know before I pull the trigger on the last things I need for my loop. 😛
reef patrol
I didn't really bother with anything extreme since all parts were brand new at the time. The blocks should be clean (and you can tell easily with a visual inspection)
The radiators is where it gets fun - They're soldered/welded together, and there's almost always a bit of gunk left in them.
What I did was fill them up about a quarter with regular tap water, close them off and give them a goooood shake. Rinse repeat till no black bits come out with the water. Then a final good shake with distilled/demineralized to get rid of any water impurities.
And from there I put EK Clear in them.
misty pier
is it worth buying the regular at2020 (xlr output) or the one with usb
young flicker
Awesome, thanks @reef patrol. I might get something just to be extra safe, and also for when I drain the loop and it isn't brand new anymore.
reef patrol
Do you have an XLR control unit?
young flicker
@misty pier I have no idea but the AT2020 USB was recommended highly to me by a few people.
reef patrol
You could join the EKWB Discord and ask about those Mayhem products. Never used them personally. 🙂
misty pier
i will pair it with an xlr interface if i do buy the one with the xlr output
reef patrol
XLR is theoretically better - But I bet you'll see a lot more difference with more expensive stuff than entry level.
young flicker
Hah, I hopped over and there you are.
reef patrol
Oh yes. I get around 😄
young flicker
misty pier
yeah i don't have a ton of usb ports left at all
i do have more room for audio jacks
i could just stay with the modmic that i have, sounds ok, just needs to be amped up to sound clear
young flicker
I've heard good things about PrimoChill and it specifically says it's fine to be used before using a wide variety of coolants so it should be good.
Thanks again, and sorry I couldn't answer your XLR question, kuri.
frozen anchor
@misty pier it would probably be more worth it to buy a nice usb mic unless you really need high quality sound
As like mansen said at the low end there isn't much difference
young flicker
Ohhh yeahhh, I did forget one thing. There are only two RGB headers on the motherboard and with RGB fans that will be like... at least 9 RGB things. Ffffuuuuu-
young flicker
That's what I'm looking at. It's further complicated by the Corsair fans I'll probably be going with but the Commander Pro should handle all of those with its six ports. I'm still potentially left with the CPU water block, the GPU water block, the distro plate, and the case though.
Oh, and the PWM as well.
old marlin
@misty pier in the end you will have to connect it via USB
even with an audio interface
tough stag
@pale sigil I reviewed the ModMic again. Its amazing. And i tried to buy one. However none of the listed shops on their website has them in stock. And amazon.com that has 13 wont ship to germany or switzerland. LOL
old marlin
depends on the seller
nah they were available at some point
also I think atm there still are heightend import costs
tough stag
They are available
reef patrol
Yep. No bueno importing from outside of EU 😄
tough stag
tax 😦
tough stag
I'd rather preorder in a german shop then. Wont have to go through import. Which can get messy.
tough stag
Well sort of
old marlin
still eu
tough stag
Its complex
There are many eu contracts .. its not just eu
UK is part of some .. not all
tough stag
And will leave some
old marlin
for you in this case
tough stag
yes but still checking for FCC stuff and GS and TüV and and and
old marlin
there were german sellers
tough stag
So they still look at stuff very closeley and sometimes return or charge fees etc
yes .. the shop of the manufacturer lists german shops.
tough stag
nice
old marlin
but apparently everyone booted them
prolly not enough sales
since many find them quite disappointing for the price
old marlin
like my modmic 4 sounds terrible
the wireless one afaik uses the same mic as teh 5
which is the unidirectional version
tough stag
did you increase the bitrate?
tough stag
🤔
old marlin
but with the uni versions you open up another can of worms
since that will likely pick up your keyboard
tough stag
unidirectional + noise canceling
old marlin
thought they jsut copy pasted the 5 and made it wireless
tough stag
I think it can be rly good
And the fact it might be banned because of exceeding the 25mW limit for RF stuff makes me want it even more 😄
More range
Mabye ebay 
Jesus they even include a: "Alcohol cleaning pad"
reef patrol
Of course. Won't stick without a good, clean surface.
thick elk
That really doesn't surprice me as even a 2 euro screen protector would include that.
old marlin
in other news amazon basically doesn't want me to buy stuff
always wants me to change the payment option
reef patrol
😄
old marlin
guess I'll order my stuff somewhere else
if the "it just works" excuse doesn't work for amazon anymore
tough stag
Finland or Denmark have a lot of shops with stock \o/
pale sigil
halcyon moss
what about it?
pale sigil
Pretty cool
wheat plume
It reminds me of the one I found for running macos on qvm
young flicker
I'm sure I'm missing something obvious, but I've seen people recommending this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Corsair-RGB-to-Aura-Mystic-Light-A-RGB-Adapter/372521827376
That would plug something expecting 5V into something expecting 12V, how does it not just blow the circuitry?
Like I said, I'm sure it's obvious but I'm trying to wrap my head around it before I buy it.
young flicker
Also, it says to limit one connection to 2A (10W), I can just check the specs for my CPU/GPU blocks, distro plate, and case for the power draw of their LEDs, right?
If anybody helps me you're a life saver and I really appreciate it.
vagrant marsh
u guys seen those leaks on the rtx 3080? It looks ugly as hell. Like they took a design from the ninetees thats flashy and try to implement it today
reef patrol
I like it.
vagrant marsh
bah. no taste 😛
reef patrol
It's very retro 80s. Sleek design.
Compared to the godawful 2000 series reference cards, anything is gorgeous
vagrant marsh
i fancied the rtx 2000 looks.
ashen spindle
not like it matters, either will be the default cooler so people but it for watercooling and remove the cooler, or it's a higher priced founders edition so AiB models will make more sense
reef patrol
bah. no taste. 😛 😉
vagrant marsh
with the aluminium. it looks more professional than those plastic covers from gigabyte
like you got a Wish graphics card
reef patrol
That's literally how GPUs have looked for a decade or more. Calling them "wish" cards is a bit silly.
As for the ref cards... They also happened to be an utter nightmare to take apart, which is a big no no.
vagrant marsh
why would you have to take them apart tho. most coolers are fine.
reef patrol
To do any number of things. Not being able to think up a reason doesn't excuse it 😄
reef patrol
As for blocks - I think the Vector series is pretty spot on for a typical block next gen.
vagrant marsh
compared to the reference card with the shiny aluminium
crimson wigeon
can they just bring back the cheesy art please
ashen spindle
if something gets stuck and you need to take it off to get rid of it, if you need want to repaste paste after x years etc.
vagrant marsh
however, the reference card was a blower style. i hate that
sure, for liquid cooler i see the reason why you have to take off the cooler, but i think only a limited market does that.
hench why nvidia aint taking that into consideration when designing the coolers
and ofcourse, i aint stupid. functionality over design. but you can have something that looks great, and cools good at teh same time.
vagrant marsh
what do you mean, open the cooler?
reef patrol
Makes it a pain clean or swap fans, cleaning out the radiator or getting gunk out of it in general.
vagrant marsh
ahh
ashen spindle
well, the cable was still glued to the boards, so you can't even remove the entire thing cleanly either
reef patrol
open it Take apart this box of super glued shit 😄
vagrant marsh
that quick silver looks neater, because the plastic has an aluminium color. but its the thought that counts
i know, the red is stylish, but it looks cheap
i dont open my graphics card. i just RMA it XD
ashen spindle
damn
reef patrol
I hope you meant to say RMA 😛
ashen spindle
:p
vagrant marsh
oh, yes. rma
reef patrol
As for RMA... two year warranty isn't much good after that ends 😄
vagrant marsh
luckily, my card broke down after a month i got it, so it was within warrenty
ashen spindle
firstly that, second, are you in a place where return shipping is free?
vagrant marsh
then the card that i got back was even worse
so i had 2 rma's
third card's the charm
XD
i had to do almost a week's worth of convincing to nvidia that the card i got after the rma was even worse. i had to underclock it. at its standard clock, i got artifacts on the screen.
old marlin
how long do you plan to keep it?
vagrant marsh
@ashen spindle yes, shipping to them, and shipping it back was all on the house.
ashen spindle
yeah thats not the case everywhere afaik
vagrant marsh
netherlands got ya covered on all aspects. we are really consumer friendly country over here.
you can even return items by law, a week after purchase without even giving a reason. like, you just give it back and they have to return you your money
reef patrol
I mean... The EU prescribes 14 days. So 😛
vagrant marsh
heh. if the EU had much say in the netherlands, well, i would probably have been in jail a long time ago
lets just leave it at that
ashen spindle
there is just no need to make your devices unrepairable like apple wants, so 70 screws or what it was + gluing cable to the board is just a bad cooler design that doesnt add amazing functionality either
reef patrol
Buddy... the consumer laws are enforceable in all EU countries.
vagrant marsh
yea, but then they act difficult, ya know? take it to court, they say.
dutch law says a week.
reef patrol
That's very rare - And that's why you have a consumer rights org that does it for you 😛
vagrant marsh
hu
i should look into that then
but anyhow, nvidia finally got me a good card on the second rma.
so i have no complaints anymore
vagrant marsh
there
thats the artifacts i got with fallout 4. a bethesda game, of all games, ran stable with an unstable graphics card. all it did was showing these artifacts when the graphics card couldnt take it no more. all other games simply crashed
so i had to underclock the graphics card, quite significantly, to stop them from appearing.
but as i said, the third card's the charm. it did make me question wether or not i would go for amd next, but as far as i know, amd still aint leading. nvidia simply knows how to make stronger graphics cards.
and if those drivers become an issue again, i could never forgive myself for choosing the wrong team.
and this was hte problem with teh first original card i bought. the right fan wasnt spinning. thats all. it wasnt running too hot, but i noticed it ran hot. so i looked, and saw one of the fans wasnt spinning.
ashen spindle
imagine if you could open that with just 3 screws instead of 70 :^) might've been an easy fix
vagrant marsh
imagine the cable not being glued shut
ashen spindle
yup
vagrant marsh
meh. nvidia offered rma, so i went for it
if i opened it up, and couldnt fix it, they probably wouldnt have accepted the rma cause they saw it got tampered with
ashen spindle
well if it wasnt glued they a) can't prove it, b) warranty void stickers are not enforceable in many places, idk about your place but could always argue thats how you got it etc.
the comparison louis rossman makes is good, you are allowed to change tires on a car that could crush you, but changing a screw on hardware that at worst might hurt your toe if you let it fall, is supposed to break warranty? lmao
old marlin
you can't open it with any amounts of glue
fan connectors are right under that plastic panel
which is glued shut
vagrant marsh
louis got alot of opinions tho 😛 he just says what the general concencus is, tho. how everyone thinks it should be fair. and sure, apple is just a giant douche for trying to charge you 900 bucks for a product thats hardly worth that any more. but not everyone got the skill louis has. louis says so himself, alot of repair shops fuck it up as well.
old marlin
anybody is able top open a GPU
and replace thermal paste
nvidia actively prevents you from doing that
while other companies encourage it on aftermarket cards
ashen spindle
yes but trying to change a batter needs to be done in an offical shop? why? there is 0 reason for that etc. he's not arguing every person should get soldering irons and change resistors at home
vagrant marsh
maybe they are afraid someone finds out the truth about their terrible cooling elements
😛
ashen spindle
we are speaking of using a screwdriver to replace a big metal chunk
vagrant marsh
like, maybe only 1 heatpipe touches the gpu
old marlin
it doesn't matter how good it is
ashen spindle
people are finding out about that anyway...
old marlin
in a few yours you have to replace the thermal paste
vagrant marsh
i think i never replaced thermal paste an
wait
on my gtx 560 ti XD those things had terrible stock coolers, so i bought an aftermarket cooler and put it on.
back when artic produced really quality coolers
old marlin
what is the longest period of time you had your cards?
also acrtic still makes decent aftermarket coolers
vagrant marsh
how much time passed between the gtx 670 and 1070?
old marlin
oof
vagrant marsh
yea, but back then they really made top of the line. they were one of the few who did that as well. now, alot of other companies catched up
old marlin
you should replace thermal paste every so often
lol
what elese should I get?
a morpheus?
vagrant marsh
no, no
i gotten the 560 Ti when it got released. then the 670 FTW edition. and then i waited with buying a new graphics card until the 1070. after the 1070, ive bought the 2070 when it came out.
so, only between the 670 and 1070 maybe, but my graphics card didnt gave any problems
old marlin
yeaaaaaa
vagrant marsh
if your graphics card aint giving you heating problems, then the thermal paste probably didnt need replacing
vagrant marsh
i was plying fallout 4 with that 670, i gotten used to the noise, boy :p
ashen spindle
well with newer cards it also matters more with gpu boost 3,0 etc.
old marlin
yup
ashen spindle
dont think a 670 had that lol
old marlin
5-10 C is a huge clock difference
vagrant marsh
i dont think they had any gpu boost back then lol
old marlin
they still had fan curves
vagrant marsh
sure, but when you are gaming with a 5.1 speakerset, the noise of your fan is ahrdly noticable
vagrant marsh
my ears start hurting if i put it on for too long, so ive always been a speaker boi
vagrant marsh
old marlin
lol
fr though
you can't compare some random shitty headset
with some decent headphones
in any way
vagrant marsh
meh. 5.1 speakers all the way
reef patrol
I can wear my headphones 24/7.
reef patrol
And I honestly often wear them all day, since they're wireless 😄
old marlin
and your 20 speaker setup performs worse than 2 well palced drivers
I wear mine like 6-16 hours a day
ashen spindle
yeah with homeoffice I basically just take them of during the day for dinner/lunch lol
old marlin
don't have homeoffice lol
vagrant marsh
ha
my speakers are from creative
they got
X-FI TECHNOLOGY
i still aint got no idea what it does tho
Plus, another dope ass rgb lighting
vagrant marsh
well sure, if you limit yourself to something as small as a laptop, you cant properly attach a logitech z906 to that
old marlin
external dac
same as you did with your soundcard
also my laptop actually supports shit like that
vagrant marsh
oh wait, a usb thingy?
old marlin
yea
vagrant marsh
it does? cool
old marlin
but the onboard dac is shit
besides
logitech speaker setups aren't the greatest
lol
teh z906 supports toslink
vagrant marsh
i got no complaints. though i would agree on the z-5500, the z-906 is an improvement
old marlin
definetley do that
I'd personally would ge teither some nice reference monitors
or some actually home cinema oriented ones
vagrant marsh
i always wondered what that thing was for
vagrant marsh
why they still got it nowadays tho
old marlin
cause it is optical
and optical means future
actualyl mainly because it remained the only way to get digital audio out of tvs and dvd and bluray players
vagrant marsh
i dont see what is wrong with the 3.5 jackets
old marlin
until hdmi came around
well
tvs don't have great dacs
so you use the dac in the speakers
or soundbar
beacuse it is a digital connector it foregoes the internal dac
although by now most decent tv amps have an hdmi KVM inside
vagrant marsh
the only problem i had with the previous version of this set, the z-5500 was that when turned off, but power cable still in, the speakers produced a buzzing tone. i just couldnt get used to it, so eventually i bought the z 906, which didnt had this
the speakers of my dad broke a few days ago tho. all they do is produce a boom-boom-boom-boom sound
i tried them on my pc but same results, so i think electronics are busted
they were cheap speakers tho. got discontinued only 3 years after they got introduced lol. why he probably got them so cheap
old marlin
lol
thick elk
Got to please the NSA somehow, they really didn't want a webcam build in but sadly they got forced.
hardy idol
That's the good thing about Asus with their Zephyrus stuff
Just yeet the webcam
on the GX701 you get the GC21 external webcam
And its a 1080p@60
Pretty decent actually
thick elk
I never used my laptop's webcam myself. Still I wish that at least on the more business oriented / more premiums models they would spend a bit more money and get something similar to the front facing camera on a mid range smartphone.
Most webcams are really pathetic and have not improved much over the last decade.
hardy idol
Yeah
That's why I'm happy that I dont have to take the webcam with me when i dont use it
I pretty much only use it at home
chrome estuary
damn i like that logo
wheat plume
I love the aero logo
hardy idol
i dont like the design of the laptop as a whole tho
vagrant marsh
i find it weird how full blown security cams on banks and such are worse than those put in a phone
wheat plume
^^^^
ashen spindle
because your phone is not running 24/7/365 ?
wheat plume
Police: "Have you seen this man?"
The image with the man: 240p and more pixelated than a camera from 1970
because your phone is not running 24/7/365 ?
@ashen spindle they arent recordered though
they are streamed
ashen spindle
I wasn't on about the filesize of the recordings
vagrant marsh
you can easily get a server with a few tb of storage
and were talking about banks. if they dont have the money to spend it, then who is
ashen spindle
again, not about the filesize
a phone camera just isn't designed for 24/7 usage for years under all conditions etc.
vagrant marsh
how'd ya know? i mean, did anyone ever tested that
plus, how hard is it to modify such a camera to be run for longer periods of time
still, maybe they dont invest in camera's too much because no1 is stupid enough to do an actual bank robbery these days
its much more digital now
ashen spindle
what I think it might be legal/security reasons, who can make them etc.
and making sure its compatible with the running system bc training someone to use a new interface or so aint happening lol
ashen spindle
eh doubt it
hardy idol
WOOSH
vagrant marsh
hmm?
warped dove
Let's go boys, active cooling solution in your perforated gaming mouse baby https://www.mindshunter.com/vinthor
split cipher
thick elk
I'd rather have a small hose + ln2 attached.
Jokes aside, I can imagine people with sweaty hands wanting some active cooling.
I just wonder why they would ever choose a glossy mouse though.
frozen anchor
Introducing the loudest mouse ever
young flicker
So I just learned that Cat8 is a thing. Holy schnikes it's fast.
young flicker
Also I don't know what people are complaining about when it comes to the 3080 leak, it looks great to me.
90% of people won't have a reference card anyway.
young flicker
old marlin
The vinthor is a scam
crimson wigeon
"some" motherboard manufacturers? Come on. Name and shame!
ashen spindle
ehh that is tomshardware so I already dont really trust it
vagrant marsh
I dunno. A mouse with a ventilator built inside. I think some people got serious sweaty palms
fickle ore
if it's the stilt, you trust it
ashen spindle
looks like I made the right decision by not disabling my adblock to read the toms article
Twitter
vagrant marsh
Gotta love twitter and its ability to post 2 lines per tweet
Makes reading extra cancerous
😩
But he is right. Manufacturers wont allow something like this to shorten the lifespan intentionally.
ashen spindle
no his point is more that this is not even shorting the lifespan xD
ashen spindle
well that depends on the ammount, but voltage is what causes electromigration, not power
power only indirectly by heat that only barely
young flicker
The information comes from HWinfo. Also, some random says it's misleading but doesn't say how. K. Also x2, using uBlock Origin and I didn't have to disable a thing.
ashen spindle
if you would read what he posted you would know
and it's not some random lol
and I didnt say the info was wrong, merely what toms hardware read out of that is wrong
ashen spindle
did you oc anything
ashen spindle
no adjustment to power or current limit?
zenith sonnet
Nope, all stock
I tried the other day
And it really didn't help performance, like, at all
1T perf went down 1%, nT perf up 1%
Like, the other place where it made a real difference was P95
Small FFTs, power draw went from 88W to 132W
ashen spindle
then I guess you are "affected"
zenith sonnet
Even in CB R20, with all current limits removed
nT power draw dropped from 88W to 82W, same performance
ashen spindle
you were at 100% load with cinebench and that PRD thing was below 100% in hwinfo?
zenith sonnet
1T power draw dropped from 18W to 15W, with a small loss in performance
I dunno why I get less power draw/performance with PBO on and no current limits
And yes, ran both R20 nT and P95 (smallest and small), stayed within 92.8 and 97% at all times
That's a little low, even
ashen spindle
then I guess your mobo did tweak it
zenith sonnet
Is it? That's pretty close to 100%
ashen spindle
yes but its not 100%
zenith sonnet
What do we learn time and time again?
Motherboards try to cheat and mislead wherever they can 🤷
As long as they work, though...
ashen spindle
ehh hard to say if that is cheating though
like if stock coolers weren't shit, higher Tau values on intel platform would be no issues etc.
and tmk they are not violating any specs, just not copying guidelines 1 to 1
zenith sonnet
Eh, to be fair I'd rather not have my motherboard run the CPU at 5% more power for 2% more performance, unless I want it to
But in the end, it's nothing anyway
thick elk
https://www.anandtech.com/show/15839/electromigration-amd-ryzen-current-boosting-wont-kill-your-cpu
I guess he felt it needed a full response article
anandtech and tomshardware are owned by the same company btw
shadow minnow
Do you think it is worth it? (165€ for that ram) https://www.czc.cz/g-skill-tridentz-royal-16gb-2x8gb-ddr4-4266-stribrna/251009/produkt
reef patrol
Honestly? No. I stopped caring at 3600Mhz (and that was honestly a meme in of itself)
I'd rather buy another kit with the money difference.
shadow minnow
I mean, I want ram cause of look and I can get 3200 for 130€ or this for 165€. I quite like OCing. 😄
3200 one is extremely bad value
This will not be big of performance boost in FPS... but will be more fun to OC 😄
ashen spindle
depends, 3200 could be b die and if this is something like CJR so for OC the 3200 kit could easily beat it etc.
also, is this for your build next year again or do you want to buy it now?
thick elk
Generally it's not b-die or if it is not great b-die. You could however get some Crucial Rev-e for the fun of ocing.
shadow minnow
At the start of next or end of this. Thing is that it is on quite good sale. @ashen spindle
thick elk
But if you like the looks and want a highly clocked kit, sure go ahead.
shadow minnow
Can not find info what die is it
ashen spindle
so again, if you wait till then zen3 is probably out and might be what you want so it makes no sense getting ram with xmp for higher than what you potentially need
thick elk
I don't know the timing at the top of my head but I think 4266 cl19 should be b-die
shadow minnow
B-die Sounds good
thick elk
there are some charts on reddit you can look it up
shadow minnow
@ashen spindle I will probably go with gaming. One thing is that there is not big difference, especially when I am mainly gaming, another that I want some features that are more often on intel boards only.
shadow minnow
I am saying I am probably going with intel not with ryzen
ashen spindle
from what we know so far, zen3 will be much better and tgl will barely overclock if at all
your assumptions is the opposite of what is suspected so far
shadow minnow
If I ll go with ryzen, I can still underclock ram and probably get good timings
ashen spindle
my opinion stays the same, getting parts now makes 0 sense if you want to wait 6+ months for the most important parts
crimson wigeon
https://www.vusec.net/projects/crosstalk/ oh another one? How much perf is this gonna take away..
ashen spindle
eh same thing with a different method
should be fixed similar to the other SGX exploits
also afaik theres still no active known usage of any of these type of exploits on either amd or intel for a malicious attack yet?
ashen spindle
hrmmm, so we might get a rtx 3090 instead of a Titan version, I do hope that's true because it's a) going to give better perf/$ for the rtx stack and b) indicated rdna2 will be good competition
ashen spindle
you thought they use windows? 
wheat plume
i didnt know what they would use but probably since the like windows
ashen spindle
its AI, not doing graphics
zenith sonnet
I'm really hapoy I bought those Trident Z Neo B-die kits
RAM makes a lot of difference, still
wheat plume
a 2gb ram Raspberry Pi 4 is not enough to run a minecraft server with more than 4 people at a time ;-;
zenith sonnet
Can be 15-20% more performance between a 3200C16 and 3600C14 setup
In select programs
Others, it doesn't matter
ashen spindle
a) that is zen2 and not general, b) bet c++ minecraft could run on that :p
thick elk
Non moded on paper mc it runs pretty well but most of hte problems on a pi would be the single threaded cpu performance.
wheat plume
a) that is zen2 and not general, b) bet c++ minecraft could run on that :p
@ashen spindle none of us had bedrock minecraft except me
ashen spindle
yes im just poking fun at java
wheat plume
besides, that game has its own servers
zenith sonnet
@ashen spindle See the 10400 reviews comparing 3200 and 2666
10th gen Intel CPUs lose even more performance with weaker RAM
wheat plume
they are automatically made when you add a friend to the world
ashen spindle
I changed my 2133 ram to 3000 so I know how much it does on an 8600k :p
zenith sonnet
Anyway, RAM speed matters, quite a bit so, up to a certain point, where it's fast enough to saturate the CPU
That point varies quite a bit on a per app basis
thick elk
do note that timings can be very important as well. Generally most of the time the tradeoff falls in favor of higher frequency but when you compare the average 3000 and 3200 kit they often perform about the same.
shadow minnow
@zenith sonnet What do you think about buying 4266mhz trident z royal kit, was thinking about ordering one.
Although I am going to build my system probably at the end of the year/start of the next year, they are currently on sale.
I wanna probably use them with intel cpu, can not find what kinda die are they
wheat plume
Should I use a realtime kernel instead of standard? Cause I see that option on the Manjaro kernel manager and i looked into them a little
For games or video production it works better apparently
zenith sonnet
@shadow minnow That's good RAM, no doubt
But you may not get a great return on your investment
Although, Zen3 might be able to handle those speeds
halcyon moss
@wheat plume is realtime had real benefits, it would be default
fair gull
linux isnt built as a realtime kernel
halcyon moss
Is glass a good surface for a mouse?
reef patrol
If your mouse has teflon bottoms, and the mousepad isn't too reflective (or the mouse is from this decade), yes
Back in ye olden days, Steelseries made these glass mousepads.
old marlin
almost all mice use teflon skates
some use HDPE, which in fact is even better for glass
reef patrol
Most mice definitely don't use teflon 😄
old marlin
only the cheapest office mice use shitty plastic
most mice do
well
not very pure one
but it has been the absolute standard for like 15 years
you won't find a modern gmaing mouse with non teflon skates
except lexip mice with cermaic skates
reef patrol
My bad. I wasn't aware they basically looked like black rubber.
old marlin
and some bloody metal skates
reef patrol
Back in my days, it was a copper like material.
old marlin
ye they are died
teflon would be fairly transparent when pure
those white skates often are purer
reef patrol
Teflon lyfe 😄
old marlin
although some are dyed with titanium oxide
fickle ore
glass is good provided the sensor can track it, it's very homogenous and hard so it's more accurate than cloth but sensor might not find enough cracks or reference points to track...
old marlin
Hdpe tape lyfe
halcyon moss
i'll stick with my cloth one..
old marlin
I'd get the skypad
but don't have CC
so I can't order it
which is good, spent a lot of money this month already
"I don't wanna spend money on keyboards this month"
spends 260 euros on keyboards in that month
reef patrol
ivory geyser
Why spend 260 when you have a keyboard that has a supposed lifespan of 34 years of non-stop use? :P
old marlin
uhhhh
yes
I need 2 keyboards
one at home, one at work
and I sold my work keyboard
to try out different stuff
also need the new keeb for developing a better version of it lol
ivory geyser
So you need... 4-5 wootings then 
fickle ore
haha intel at it agian
ashen spindle
you gotta be a bit more specific if I cant even read what that says
ashen spindle
any test of a non purely theoretical application for that out yet?
thick elk
probably won't be that big a deal, mostly applications that heavily rely on the random number generator.
ashen spindle
the point is that even those applications aren't really constantly hammering the rng instructions every cycle, so it might even under heavy load not change much
"real world" benchmarking as intel put it is actually important here lol I hate that I had to say that
thick elk
We just have to wait for more benchmarks, yea. I expect the long term impact to not be that huge, as using there are alternatives.
RDRAND was also broken on older pre ryzen AMD cpu's.
ashen spindle
not going to affect any of our workloads anyway really thankfully
thick elk
Possibly some scientific applications but those can disable the mitagations as they are often not at risk turning them off.
ashen spindle
ye, research pc's and servers for such should not be on the internet anyway so they can just not apply these patches
thick elk
Even if they are the number crunching machines really don't care about leaking information between cores.
fickle ore
good job downplaying a mitigation going from 100% to 3%, buncha intel apologists 😛
ashen spindle
yeah because hammering a single instruction on any cpu means anything
fickle ore
keep defending intel
ashen spindle
btw the article said that as well, just as an fyi
thick elk
FYI the same instruction was broken on bulldozer, sometimes not even giving a random number after reboot.
fickle ore
We're on Ryzen 3rd gen soon. Why are we talking Bulldozer?
It's now, not 2011
freaking 97% reduction jeez
I'd hate to call administrator for every pc that I do research on that relies on rdrand
ashen spindle
imo this is just the same as arguing that cpu tests for gaming should be done on 720p with lowest settings, yes you see gigantic differences between stuff, but is that even close to what anyone uses?
fickle ore
god
ashen spindle
this is not a 97% reduction in efficiency for a tool that uses random, my point is I want to see how much that is affected, I'm not saying it cant still be 50 70 or 80% worse
fickle ore
there was another vulnerability couple days ago that was 16x reduction in performance for a task that I've now forgotten. Intel just stated it won't be fixed because the perf cost is too high
LVI
they keep piling 😄
ashen spindle
and nobody argues against it or "defends" it
I just want to laugh at intel and say "haha your calculator runs 90% slower" instead of saying "haha if you run 1+1 60 billion times its now slower"
thick elk
It's the same underlying flaw in skylake as most of the other ones.
Yea it's bad but for the majority of users it won't be a big deal. For number crunching research it will be a bigger issue.
Intel just got screwed by not getting their 10nm to work properly
Again
ashen spindle
yup, ice lake doesnt have LVI risks, but also still isn't in the hands of anyone aside form like Tier 1 customers 
ashen spindle
yeah I'll be honest, if every time I get a random loot drop it calls for a random number from that, I still wont notice it
thick elk
We will have to wait for benchmarks but there is one thing that makes it worse and that is that the entire memory slows down when calling rdrand
fickle ore
you will in ARPGS because you one shot packs every 0,3sec 😛
thick elk
Games use the random number generator for more then just loot drops
fickle ore
and ye
thick elk
Luckily long terms you can often get around it and not use rdrand as a source of random numbers
thick elk
it's a seed from the hardware random number generator
fickle ore
What’s an RDRAND?
Modern x86_64 CPUs—beginning with Intel's Broadwell and AMD's Zen architectures—are supposed to have high-quality onboard random number generators (RNGs), which use thermal "noise" to very rapidly offer high-entropy pseudorandom numbers to anybody with kernel-level access who wants it. RDRAND is, in turn, the instruction that provides these random numbers.
ashen spindle
ok so it's what you would use as a seed for random events that are not very important, so it would be reused by random.next or similar things, so for most "random"
events in a game you wouldnt call it everytime
fickle ore
ZEN 3 will add PCID instruction too.. Which could give us 0-3% perf increase for already enabled mitigations on zen hmm
I mean PCID oops
ashen spindle
still curious if we ever get any known usecase of these exploits, in most situations it seems just so much easier to get the data with other methods
might just be something fbi and co try to use so we never find out
ashen spindle
reef patrol
Hmm?
old marlin
See how thin they are?
reef patrol
Not really 
frozen anchor
Well they have to be thin to let a lot of light through
old marlin
fickle ore
hope you dont get pps fatigue yama
old marlin
thick elk
the walls are mostly thinner but on the top they are not that thin.
fickle ore
typing on hard surfaces start to hurt fingers and joints
I got pom fatigue
rocking abs now
old marlin
The tops also are pretty fucking thin
frozen anchor
How would typing on pom instead of abs hurt your fingers
thick elk
Just for reference, are you comparing it to a similarly priced pbt cap as I have some other ones that are also pretty damn thin. puddings are pretty cheap.
frozen anchor
Neither should have give though
old marlin
@thick elk you can get similarly proced pbt keycaps with the same thickness from YMDK
fickle ore
pbt/pom are much much harder than ABS, abs is soft thermoplastic
thick elk
I recently ordered some btw, I agree that puddings are not that great. Generally though there is not a lot of choice in backlit iso caps.
I just never saw any problems with their thickness
golden girder
So I can't recommend any tool to inject mouse movement into a Xbox controller at all. The problem is the tranlation of the inputs from relativ to absolute.
humble fable
Sorry im away for about 10 minutes but I'm going to answer later
golden girder
Each game handles the joystick differently you need to adjust the speed for each game separatly.
thick elk
uh are you talking in the right channel?
golden girder
I would say yes.
golden girder
Sorry...
For injecting mouse inputs (joysticks / movement) into a Xbox controller I can only recommend the XIM Apex.
There are other tools (also cheaper) but not as good when it comes to mouse precision like Titan Two or Cronus Zen , but they support scripts so maybe they are better for you if you.
https://xim.tech/
https://www.roxxgames.de/equipment/titan-two-controller-adapter.html
https://cronusmax.com/
But for that device you need a real controller, so it's not a cheap solution. Also if you connect a mouse into them you can't use the mouse as a mouse anymore.
I have only experience with the XIM Apex.
https://wooting.helpscoutdocs.com/article/72-guide-how-to-set-up-a-wooting-keyboard-for-the-xim-apex
I use a USB switcher where my peripherals are connected to and where one output is connected to my PC, one directly to my console and another one to the XIM Apex. So I toggle the output depending what I want to use.
humble fable
In fact I wanted to get me a Titan Two from the same company
Ah you send that too yes
golden girder
Same company? As far as I know these three are different vendors.
golden girder
Why a Max when the Zen in newer?
humble fable
I know the max I didn't knew there was a Zen
But I do know the Titan Two
I don't know could be I mixed something up. Thought Titan Two and Cronus Max is from the same company
golden girder
I'm not familiar with both but why do think they are?
humble fable
My bad 😅
Because I already did my research in the past
but that was some time ago
and I didn't remember it correctly
golden girder
I think one was a clone of the other in the past.