I have faith
#πβtech
feral jolt
ashen spindle
wow this is weird, I went through a couple reviews, some really just use the stock cooler vs clc on intel (lol tomshardware ) but regardless nobody mentions temps 
feral jolt
And my friend wanted a new computer so I gave him a list and made him buy a 3600. He's my test subject
I hope the msi b450 gaming plus works out alright
ashen spindle
for the 3600? hell yeah that works
feral jolt
Was tight on budget due to monitor
ashen spindle
just make sure to tell him to ask the vendor to update bios/manually do that
feral jolt
He's already got the bios on a flash drive in fat32
Made him do it before he ordered it lol
ashen spindle
does that board already support bios flash with no cpu?
thought that only started on x570
feral jolt
Yup that's why I picked it
ashen spindle
got a link that shows that?
feral jolt
I dont feel like digging it up right now
pale sigil
anyone know an alterantive to sharex on linux
chrome estuary
honestly i used a script made by one of my nerdy friends
but you could use xfce4-screenshooter for a simple gui thing.
pale sigil
shutter
zenith sonnet
@ashen spindle Weird, isn't it...
As if someone wanted the 9900K to have an advantage
I've not really found any review that tested the 9900K without any form of OC, either
And then they compared prices of the barebones 9900K with a 3900X + cooler, when they used the boxed cooler on one, and a usually not even mentioned cooler on the other
And powerdraw...
One review was like 'we didn't limit power on the 9900K', with no figures to compare
reef patrol
The 9900K still in a slight lead if all you care about is games - But a 9900K for just games is silly anyway
zenith sonnet
Well, if you include the cooler, price/perf is in favour of the 3900X
Also, the 3900X does better if you do something else than run games at 1080p with a 2080 Ti on a system that has nothing running but a benchmark and maybe monitoring software
reef patrol
I am ignoring price/perf entirely here.
timid chasm
Would running a bot 24/7 from your PC really affect much in terms of component life apart from the hdd and psu? I mean the capacitors from leaving it on but are they rated for fucking forever basically anyway?
ashen spindle
I'd double check the temps on everything after like two days to make sure nothing overheats bc its too dusty or so, then there should be no issue
timid chasm
I would do it without issue (concern) on my PC but some people are concerned about the components. I guess they host a reddit bot 24/7 from it. So if it's writing to the HDD nonstop I can see that concern but they were also playing AAA games on it at one point so I don't see it being 100% write.
ashen spindle
I mean there are HDDs designed for that usecase, so even then its not bad
timid chasm
true
ashen spindle
check how much read/write it did after a day, look at the numbers for your hdd you have and you can easily see if it matters or not
earnest osprey
The usage level of the drive doesn't matter that much, it's the spin time more than anything right?
ashen spindle
5 years warranty is normal, for a lot of HDDs so its not like you run a bot for that long anyway, even f you'll change your pc in the time almost guaranteed anyway lol
zenith sonnet
If you're running everything stock, the first things to die are caps and fans
solar hinge
if you have gamer girl bathwater and feed that to your pc, it'll live forever!
fallow bison
Or get herpes
zenith mirage
or both
fallow bison
Yes
timid chasm
I'd see an hdd dying way before caps unless they were faulty
zenith sonnet
Caps do actually age, though
karmic grail
ok I might have a slight question
I found this MX518 looking mouse
But there's no product id on it
It's from logicool so I'm assuming it's not a 518
And it doesn't have the weird colors
golden girder
@karmic grail Logicool should be the name of Logitech in Japan because there was already a company called Logitec.
karmic grail
Yea still trying to figure out the model
golden girder
Maybe a MX500.
pale sigil
Switching to Linux full time has been rough af
fallow bison
Thats cause you shouldn't, Callum
crimson wigeon
Oh but you should
crimson wigeon
But it's fun having to dink around in terminal windows all the time!
fallow bison
No bad bad
pale sigil
I just prefer the terminal
Lol
Linux servers 100%
Linux gui on my desktop however has been rough
ashen spindle
well guess we now know why amd only gave 3700x and 3900x as samples for reviewers, 3800x and 3600x are basically just a waste of 50-80 bucks 
zenith mirage
how come?
earnest osprey
They are, hardly faster than their base models, the 3700x and 3600
ashen spindle
so with first gen ryzen, you could OC a 1700 and get it to 1800x levels ( and you could not oc the 1800x very much)
this time its not as extreme, but you also dont even need to oc anything manually
put in a 3600 and you have basically 3600x results, same for 3800x with 3700x
108 vs 109 fps in gta 5, 118 vs 119 in hitman 2 for the 3700x vs 3800x would not be worth 80 euros more to me
earnest osprey
I think it's a binning thing so like
get the higher one if you are going for ln2 records
but
no point otherwise really
ashen spindle
usually ln2 is going for max score in something, so you'd get the 3900x for example
earnest osprey
true
So if you care enough that small binning differences matter
3900x is just better anyway
zenith sonnet
Well, the 3800X boosts higher than the 3700X
Still not sure about the whole binning story, that'd be interesting
Knowing the first set of reviews
They all used the stock cooler on the 3800X, and kept it from boosting to its max consistently
ashen spindle
wow 4.5 instead of 4.4 max boost and you dont get either a lot
earnest osprey
my 3700x refused to boost to max even with a dual aio with 4 fans
but
I can manually set the best cores to 4.4 ghz with no problem
So when you open up full manual oc, there isn't much difference between the cpus
Literally the only setting you can't chose across cpu and memory is the memory command rate, lol
Bios oc on ryzen sucks btw, ryzen master is so much nicer
zenith sonnet
@earnest osprey What temps are you having?
zenith sonnet
Load?
earnest osprey
I haven't done a serious load test yet
I can do that now
Alright I can't do two cores at 4400
On 1.2 volts though
zenith sonnet
Have you seen those two or three vids by GN on Boost and stuff?
Only seen one so far myself
earnest osprey
If you want to rely on boost, get the best cooler you can and nothing else really matters
Manual oc is more interesting
Hmm, it fails with settings that already worked before, weird
Okay memory should be on auto, let the bios do that I guess
Alright, starting the real bench stress test is an instant crash
I'm going to try, one core 4.4 and 4.0 on the rest
ashen spindle
didnt mean 4.4 on all with that
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5pHUHGZ7hU here use the tool he has in the description
ashen spindle
in theory yea it should
earnest osprey
Trying that then
Also i can do 1.35 volts I suppose
1.2 not enough haha
1.25 no good
earnest osprey
4.3 all core was behaving before
ashen spindle
then increase V if needed
earnest osprey
If it's not happy even at 1.35 I'll bring back the oc
It really doesn't like 4.4
Now it's saving 4.0 - 4.4 with 1.25 volts
But real bench crashes
1.3 volts it rendered two frames before crashing
This is progress
I took off my gpu oc and it crashed sooner???
Apparently it's less stable without the gpu oc
That's strange
I need a different test
pale sigil
Can someone please explain why people give a shit about ps2 still
ashen spindle
the console or the input
pale sigil
input
ashen spindle
some people still use old hardware, it's cheap to put it on a board, has less issues than usb when the board gets cold from ln2 for example
think there was also something with reliability to get into bios when your usb device loads up too late or so
ashen spindle
more protocols that don't limit something else like usb/pcie lanes* ftfy
earnest osprey
wires are a pain though
timid chasm
are the console motherboards really that big? Those look fucking huge.
aaand he says a hardwired ethernet connection is hypothetically a more reliable connection, lol
"Open world style, navigate around, graphics, webs, fight combos" Unbox Therapy review of Marvels Spider-Man on PS4
No idea how he has that following π
chrome estuary
honestly i don't care about unbox at all. just because he's extremely popular and probably got that just sent to him.
i just like the thing and want the thing.
timid chasm
yeah I like the stuff in it for sure and it's neat but jesus how do 14M people find him palatable
But I dislike him so much I typically go without seeing the product because it's him lol
Still, those motherboards look bigger than the consoles themselves
chrome estuary
I think it's because they're stuffed into a case side by side
also console motherboards pretty much take up the ENTIRETY of the case.
or some do
some take up like 80%
timid chasm
yeah I know they're almost entirely motherboard but those look bigger than the cases to me
ashen spindle
ehh, I'd bet if its the same socket and not soldered you could put it into a pc and it works, maybe with a bios change
timid chasm
like a lot bigger
ashen spindle
hrm looks normal size to me
brisk basin
there is some other utility of the analog keyboard apart from games
brisk basin
Rgb 
ashen spindle
Okay I think I understand how the radeon inpult lag works now, good feature but yet again their marketing is hurting more than it helps, why amd, why 
brisk basin
@karmic grail how much did your pc cost?
hundred? or thousand xdd
5 houses
until he found that pc on the last house
π !!!!
and that 8gb ram..... i dont think is from his father
timid chasm
I got some ddr4 for sale if you want, @karmic grail π
brisk basin
ddr4 or ddr3?
timid chasm
whoops
brisk basin
ddr2? xD
timid chasm
4
ashen spindle
24gb and 26 mhz? 
earnest osprey
Uh
timid chasm
I was looking for that sub original ddr experience
karmic grail
@brisk basin it cost me $480 with some free parts from friends
@timid chasm nah imma get some cheap 8 GB for him
timid chasm
Gotcha
karmic grail
Trident royals π π π
timid chasm
with prices coming down so low I imagine I wont move these two sets of 16gb unless I prices them insanely low
timid chasm
yeah we had that here too for a good deal I think ours was like $36 usd for an 8gb stick
karmic grail
And I gotta get windows for dad
timid chasm
$32 usd*
brisk basin
why is $100?
brisk basin
why im in wooting group? wasn't this pc gaming group π
brisk basin
well... im staying
timid chasm
again, AUD
karmic grail
yes
karmic grail
laptop ddr4 to desktop ddr4 adaptor π€
timid chasm
uhm
How does that work and if it were a thing wouldn't it make the laptop not so lappy
nvm that's lappy to desktop
Neat if you have SODIMMS and don't wanna spend a bunch of DIMMS
reef patrol
They add latency though.
wheat plume
fallow bison
@karmic grail does your dad have a pc that has been replaced by the new one you built? Im pretty sure you can extract the key from the old pc.
karmic grail
@fallow bison yea it's been replaced, it was a shitty OEM, so I can take the key off it
fallow bison
You can use belarc to extract the key, and hope windows doesnt lock it because of hardware changes. It worked for me, though.
wheat plume
Wait, you just said that you will deactivate windows if you replace the GPU or something??
And you'll need to buy a new key?
karmic grail
?
timid chasm
Could also link a MS account to it for digital activation
that's what mine is and it seems to work when I change parts
timid chasm
sometimes it will deactivate if it detects a hardware change
pale sigil
@wheat plume how do you get that info
wheat plume
@pale sigil
On the lock screen when charging the phone
Click the circle at the bottom
pale sigil
@wheat plume it will de activate but most cases a reboot or re entering key fixed it
wheat plume
Ooh
pale sigil
I've never faced this issue with gpu swap
Only faced it once with cpu swap
I don't have said icon
reef patrol
Windows uses a weird point system to measure if a key is used too much. A motherboard change always triggers this, unless you have your pc user tied to an ms account.
You can get away with swapping s GPU. But lot swapping it fifteen times. This is why reviewers don't activate their PCs and just leave the keys in box.
reef patrol
TLDR. Make the damn MS account and login every time you format, then remove it again.
Otherwise prepare to risk dealing with the phone activation robot or a new key from eBay π
pale sigil
I've only had to re enter my key when I have an activation issue
zenith sonnet
I always forget the key and need some tool to get it back before reinstalling
Then I find it again a day later
Although last time it activated automatically
And I didn't even use an MS account
It's some gramdfathered Win 7 Ultimate key I'm still using
I wonder if it actually makes sense to switch to LTSC or whatever it's called, though
zenith sonnet
I'm wondering of it's just less bloat, or actually lacking essential user features
I couldn't be happier if 'DVR' and 'game mode' and xbox or whatever else is missing, thoufh
pale sigil
I got all mine via uni
So I've never paid for windows
Even during collect I got keys for windows 7 and 8
Lol
I've given a few away
I think there's a limit of like 2 computers or something because I use the same key on my laptop
zenith sonnet
Mine's originally from a TechNet subscribtion, when it still existed
Not sure if it's just a 'retail' copy nowadays
memory prices going up
trade war and shortage of chemicals
power outage
feral jolt
working on a build for a friend, whats the best x570 mobo around or below 250
i was thinking the asrock extreme4 but idk figured i'd ask before i spend an hour researching
budget is between 3-4k here's what i have so far https://pcpartpicker.com/list/N7L9sZ
@zenith sonnet are you knowledgeable on this subject
ashen spindle
is pcie4 really needed? otherwise I'd say get x470
feral jolt
might as well have it there so in 2-3 years its upgradeable
its within budget so why not
ashen spindle
because withing budget isnt a valid reason to pay for something unneeded imo
feral jolt
dont 570s have better VRM's too
ashen spindle
at least thats how I look at buying stuff
halcyon moss
save money on the board, spend more money on cpu or gpu
feral jolt
dude theres no more money to spend
ashen spindle
most, not all, but if you dont oc (which doesnt even do much) you can get cheaper x470, that dont have a fan on the chipset
halcyon moss
ah.. well then.. π
ashen spindle
nah not really, vrm is not the limiter at all
if anything I'd get a cheaper board, a noctua for the cpu, and get liquid cooling on the gpu
also does he need 32 gb ram?
8gb chips still have better timings
feral jolt
i figure he will, the game we play eats up to 12 gb ram depending on map so a few tabs of chrome and the rams full
might as well prepare for that as its a benefit of the 3900x to have more programs running
i could do 4x8
ashen spindle
nah then you lose dual rank benefits
if its better or worse then depends on the board
ashen spindle
what
most x570 boards are daisy chain layout, so you want 2 sticks
also if its for purely gaming the 9900k would still be the better performance choice
ashen spindle
nah, also you can still OC it, zen2 not so much
you can also get z390 for much less than x570
there is a z390 asrock board for 110 that works fine, has decent vrm and memory support
feral jolt
i could drop down to the 3700x and save 170 dollars as well with no effect on gaming
ashen spindle
I mean if its for just gaming the 3900x is just not a good option imo
pale sigil
@fallow bison https://chocolatey.org/
You were asking about making your own multi installer right?
feral jolt
I'd love to put a 3800x in there but they just arent anywhere to be found except one site I saw selling them for 529
ashen spindle
because they also are basically just a 3700x with a chance for very slightly higher boosts
3600, 3700x 3900x are the only options you should consider imo
feral jolt
I think AMD is hoarding all the chiplets that should go into 3800x for 3950s
I really dont want to give Intel money at this point
ashen spindle
well yeah, and they are waiting with 3950x release to get more money from epyc chips first
also if its your buddys money I dont think you should factor in who you want to give your money to at all
ashen spindle
I'd still call it misuse of trust if you base it on anything but performance, reliability and such 
feral jolt
Another big plus for AMD is efficiency
And I still think it will overtake the 9900k with updates
ashen spindle
dont tell me efficiency matters if you get a 2080 ti 
feral jolt
Theres no better option unfortunately
ashen spindle
performance wise, true, but that means you dont care about power efficiency so that shouldnt really be an argument for the cpu either :p
especially when you then need x570 where the chipset has a fan bc of higher power draw :p
feral jolt
I thought the fan was to keep it cooler for higher boost clocks
feral jolt
I thought the boost program determined clocks by monitoring voltages and temperatures until something reaches a max
ashen spindle
that's done on the cpu chip
the pch chip is for pcie/sata connections and such
you get the exact same results for the chips on b450 for example
earnest osprey
The fan on x570 isn't even needed
ashen spindle
it is, unless you have a heatpipe to the vrm cooler
earnest osprey
No it's, not needed
ashen spindle
let me guess, based on der8auers video?
earnest osprey
10 W is not very much considering the amount of surface area
ashen spindle
except it can reach more
earnest osprey
By doing what exactly
ashen spindle
and you need to factor in a not ideal case temp+ gpu placement blocking it with hot air
raid of pcie4 ssds for example
for 200$+ boards you cant just cover best scenario options
having it turn off when its on low power draw, that would be nice
but idk how easy it is to implement it there, since you have less space for stuff than on a gpu cooler
feral jolt
The fan is ultimately a downside
ashen spindle
I mean I'd rather have it over my board overheating and shutting down
but I also dont know why only a single x570 sku manages passive cooling
earnest osprey
Replacing the fan would also be a pain
feral jolt
Maybe 470 is better then
ashen spindle
eh, mobo vendors could sell a passive cooling kit that you can apply, depending where you put your pcie stuff, would probably sell good
earnest osprey
Maybe
feral jolt
It sure would be nice to put a bunch of nvme drives on a 570 though
Especially when the 4.0 ones come out
ashen spindle
also I looked at it, and 4x8 seems to be usually better than 2x16
regarding the ram kit on your build
zenith sonnet
I need to find that link about X570 again
ashen spindle
about what exactly about it?
feral jolt
Yeah what is this link
ashen spindle
asrock taichi is fine, otherwise the asrock boards dont compete well at their pricepoint
feral jolt
The taichi does look solid
ashen spindle
you can remove the last 2 words on that statement 
ashen spindle
the many ls and ys confused me 
safe patrol
This is true
earnest osprey
I mean, it's hard to get the community to switch, especially if they want to push monetized modding
plush summit
Yeah
earnest osprey
but it's impressive that it runs on literally anything
plush summit
I don't like it and will never support it
And monetized worlds and texture packs
Java will always be the better version
earnest osprey
c++ is a little bit ahead because I think it's just faster to add new things
earnest osprey
Is it?
earnest osprey
I thought there were certain things Java still doesn't have
pale sigil
You know what sucks
plush summit
Memory leaks
plush summit
Mistcraft is one of the best mods
You just don't like it because you can't get it to run stable
pale sigil
Beyond unstable
earnest osprey
I never tried it
plush summit
50 worlds and no problem
earnest osprey
but, I know Etho had endless trouble
latent mural
Ok so I have a hypothetical, lets say you just got the new wooting two. however the bottom of the casing feels extremely low quality compared to some of the older keyboards you have, you disassembled one of your old ones with a good sturdy base. how would one go about mounting the current wooting two inside it, if not just board swapping it
ashen spindle
well for one you'd probably be a first with feeling it's low quality lol
ashen spindle
but it is fairly easy to take out parts/open up the keyboard so you have a lot of flexibility for changing stuff
latent mural
lots of my older keyboards have this nice grooved underside to them that are fucking THICK
ashen spindle
thinking of who put apart their wooting and could answer that better but can'
so I guess I'll just @ @pale sigil who can probably help lul
latent mural
on a similar note jesus christ is the logitech 610's internal design ass backwards, fuckers put a screw incased in plastic on the inside thats inaccessible from the outside so i had to pop the thing off with brute force
latent mural
it fits the top plate for the most part, just need to bring out my melter and remove a bit of the shit used for audio controls its more the idea of where the fuck the screws are inside the wooting two and making sure I dont butcher the poor thing
Actually another solution might be just grabbing some of that non abrasive griptape bullshit and just slappin it on the bottom of the keyboard
ashen spindle
is it nvidias fault or a windows thing? I know multiple types of programs asking for more space when there should be enough but just barely
pale sigil
Get more disk space
Did you seriously make a windows partition with 24gb
Use DDU
No you don't
Lol
How does that work out
windows 7
There's your problem
7 is In 2019
ashen spindle
wah nvidia bad wah windows bad wah
earnest osprey
lmao
pale sigil
user bad
ashen spindle
wah my command line only pc isnt running my programs anymore wah
pale sigil
Windows 7 is like minecraft 1.7, needs to die but won't.
ashen spindle
sorry but sometimes I just feel like you complain for the sake of complaining :p
ashen spindle
I just want you to suddenly have an amd only system and still have issues
earnest osprey
amd has rampant crashes when you have an oc set in bios while ryzen master is running
pale sigil
Shit happens to everyone
earnest osprey
that was fun
ashen spindle
yup, hence its unreasonable to complain about a manufacturer due to very isolated problems, ain't it? 
ah yeah, lead the average user that knows nothing about pcs to manuald river installs
a big point is that none of us here are the main targets for majority of such features
ashen spindle
ya idk anything about the limitations, but I'd also be curious why you want to install something you don't need/wrong thing? or is it not recognizing your card?
zenith sonnet
You should be able to install drivers prior to installing the GPU
latent mural
Anyone know a decent open source program to bind keys to unused action commands
crude cipher
autohotkey?
latent mural
Doesnt AHK use like C++
or is it some form of c++ derivative, because I remember it being fucking nasty to program in compared to just good old holy C
Fuck it I'll just do it manually
fallow bison
I dont like AHK, i use voice macro
Unlike the name it also allows for keyboard input
latent mural
I wish wangblows wasn't such a piece of shit
God I want vulcan to become the standard so I never have to touch it again and just use linux
fickle ore
did u guys saw this?
"The analog to digital converter is located directly on the keyboard's main chip (instead of the switches), so there is virtually no delay in converting the signal."
O.o
PR or is there any merit on ADC happening on the MCU instead of the switches can be actually faster?
i know
yet they continue about
Other attempts
We weren't the first brand to recognize the need to eliminate debounce time by eliminating physical contact points and reducing the number of scans.
The Razer Opto-Mechanical switches use the reflection of LED lights as a way to eliminate debounce time. Physical components have debounce; light does not.
On these switches, the analog to digital converter (or ADC) is located on each switch. The ADC reads and then sends a signal to the keyboard's main chip.
In total, this takes about 2ms. A speed boost for sure, but we wanted to do even more.
Probably a case for razer, or just BSing
Yeah, I'm just interested why would ADC on the switch add additional delay or if theres any merit to that
π
I mean the travel distance doesnt change right?
the signal goes from switches to the ADC on the MCU anyways
Why does it matter where the ADC is
Could be
Maybe Jeroes could weigh on in this
Yeah, I remain sceptical
I forgot, does wooting have more latency than the 0.95ms debounce time?
+0.5ms avg polling rate ofcourse
is the ADC delay a part of the scanrate ?
I think it might be included with the scanrate, but you could be right
One day I will buy an oscilliscope dude π
safe patrol
Nerds
zenith sonnet
This looks wrong π€
reef patrol
Where'd the fourth stick go 
ashen spindle
bit sad the 2080 super is less of an upgrade than the 60/70 varaints 
not buying it myself but putting it in a build for a friend so I hoped for a little bit more
ashen spindle
yeah next gen nvidia should be really nice, especially in powerconsumption area
reef patrol
So glad the super isn't s big leap. Otherwise I'd sell my 2080 π
ashen spindle
hey don't wish us worse products just so you dont get buyers remorse :p
ashen spindle
welll... if you would sell your 2080 and geta free super, no
zenith sonnet
@reef patrol I dunno what the hell the problem was
Windows wouldn't load, and a BIOS reset didn't help either
Instead it showed me sticks A, B and C
Pushing down on all 4 sticks and 'rattling' the CPU fan a little, and everything works again
π€·
reef patrol
π€
feral jolt
My battery life is shit because discord
What's the most battery friendly web browser app
sick creek
Lol turning off javascript
Ok have fun browsing 2% of the internet
Yeah because its reddit
New reddit doesnt work properly w/o it tho
It falls back to a more basic version
Look iβm not a reddit person, iβm just stating the facts
Β―_(γ)_/Β―
Still, turning off js is dumb in 2019
feral jolt
I always use old.reddit
sick creek
Lol sometimes. But not if its vue, react, angular, etc
earnest osprey
Messaging apps don't use that much. The white keyboard and having the screen on a lot to type and read, uses a lot.
Still.
Screen time.
feral jolt
I thought it was the backlight that drew most of the power
earnest osprey
Even if you turn down the brighnest, sreen on time is the biggest battery drain minus phone games.
There is less wasted light.
But still quite a bit of energy used to create light.
feral jolt
Screen time is a moot factor tbh. Of course my battery doesn't drain quickly if I'm not using my phone
earnest osprey
Bluetooth is also a nasty battery sink
feral jolt
People still use bluetooth?
earnest osprey
Having Bluetooth even turned on
feral jolt
I've not turned it on once. The only scenario I might consider using it is if I had a newer car
earnest osprey
Just pointing out that having it on can kill battery, and well, my phone had it on by default until I turned it off
When discord is the only thing running, brightness is reasonable, and I turn it off and put it away when I'm not replying to a message, my phone can go all day on half battery.
Also, decent wifi
On data in a busy area will make that worse.
thick elk
I do use bluetooth audio sometimes works fine for when I have my phone in my pocket and want to listen to audio on my headphones. Or when I use my phone / tablet in bed while listening to some podcast. GPS on the other hand I had a phone with non functioning gps for at least a year until I managed to get it working with some patches and a different custom rom.
While I love to bash on the lack of a headphone jack I really don't use it enough on my phone to really be bothered by an usb-c adapter or bluetooth.
What I do hate with a passion is the regression in material choice of phones over the years. My note 3's plastic back was awesome then came aluminum which really offers fairly little benefit while being more slippery and blocking signals. Now they replaced it with glass which in my opinion is just plain worse.
/rantoff
earnest osprey
It really is interesting that "cheap plastic" is a seriously superior material to anything else, phone wise, but everyone seems to look down on "cheap plastic"
A well chosen plastic:
Won't crack, break, deform, or wear easily
And is lighter and cheaper
But no
"cheap plastic" is a nono
feral jolt
Well every phone I've had since 2007 has had a case so it's not a particular concern to me
Durable case means durable phone
I'm more concerned about water resistance than anything
I really like this spigen case I have
I feel like I could drop this phone 50 feet onto concrete and it would probably survive
pale sigil
@proud nacelle I haven't had to use my power bank once since getting this phone
safe patrol
o.o
zenith sonnet
@earnest ospreyWhat you're describing isn't cheap plastic though, it's high-end carbon polymers :p
@feral jolt Only thing that concerns me after using my OP3 for like three years is microscratches on the display
feral jolt
My old galaxy s3 felt like cheap plastic for the backplate
thick elk
The problem I have with using a case is that it makes my phone significantly thicker, I tried using those skins / decals in the past but those don't last.\
Also the plastic from the note3 onwards up until they switched away from it didn't look as cheap
fallow bison
Xeanoa arent all plastics carbon polymers? There's still a big difference in plastics used. Most companies cheap out on these parts to keep their prices as low as possible
zenith sonnet
I know
But it sounds better
Simple marketing
And high-end plastics ARE pretty damn awesome these days
reef patrol
Nanomachines, son
feral jolt
He's right tho
ashen spindle
I liked der8auers screenshot he got https://yt3.ggpht.com/tGs8HSagyzxcet9cR-r941L75T7D9wv0vXYBbUAKpRG569G4VA1Aa-Xn7ei4CilU6Owpwlx_HcVn=s640-nd
zenith sonnet
What the fuck is up with the SOTTR 0.1% and 1% low FPS numbers
ashen spindle
yea that confused me too, maybe refernce cooler having some issues?
zenith sonnet
It widely varies even on the same card with some OC or not
ashen spindle
hm? where did you get numbers with OC from?
zenith sonnet
I mean, the 5700 XT performs MUCH worse just raising the power limit
ashen spindle
yeah but that card is also thermal limited on stock with the cooler they have
zenith sonnet
It's the only change, and it drops from 94 to 65 0.1% lows
ashen spindle
maybe they also just got a bad card, anandtech didnt have lower numbers on the 1% numbers than lower cards
zenith sonnet
And then they INCREASE the resolution
And 0.1% ever so slightly increase, and average drops?
That's borked
feral jolt
Anyone got 5700xt benched on a loop?
zenith sonnet
It's weird that the increase in power limit only matters at 1080p
And disappears at WQHD and 4K
ashen spindle
dont even know if there is a loop for navi availible yet
might have to wait for aib cards
ashen spindle
I just noticed GN is not on any of the review lists videocardz puts out for new cards did I miss some beef there
zenith sonnet
Maybe they only consider written reviews?
ashen spindle
nope, they even list if its written or video or both
feral jolt
Not a fan of the tomb raider series myself anyway
Not a fan of adventure puzzle games
zenith sonnet
They use a 8086K
I wish reviewers would do with a Ryzen CPU for comparison as well when reviewing video cards
feral jolt
I remember as a kid I bought that prince of Persia game and threw a fit because I wasted 50 dollars on a puzzle game
zenith sonnet
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/cfdog5/realworld_3700x_analysis_and_other_ramblings/
Now this is good stuff
ashen spindle
AMD has surpassed Intel in IPC
when using a 4 year old cpu...
I think it kinda might be true but thats not how you make good comparisons
or at least mentioned its an older cpu, but intel still uses the same uArch just with refreshes
zenith sonnet
Ryzen 3000 beats any Intel offering when run at the same clocks
Hell, a 4.2 GHz 3900X is within 5% of a 5.1GHz 9900K
*In gaming benchmarks
And completely trashes is in almost any multithreaded productivity workload
So, it's preddy gud
ashen spindle
oh yeah and I am very happy about having a choice as a consumer now
but I still hate bad methodology for tests :p
zenith sonnet
I don't even know what good methodology is any more, but that guy makes very good points
ashen spindle
it's better than what I expected from a subreddit for one manufacturer, I'll give it that
zenith sonnet
Also, Ryzen controls it's own voltages and clocks so well, you actually have to fix both
And it still doesn't mean anything
You have to fix both voltage and clock, and then run a workload on it to test if performance is still 100%
You can fix vcore @1V, and it'll still run 4.2 GHz all core
That's like undervolting by 0.31V
But you'll lose 10-20% performance, because the clock stretcher kicks in, and keeps it stable
ashen spindle
how IPC exactly works is also still beyond my understanding, but I imagine its a bit more tied to expected frequency range so just fixing both cpus at the same wouldn't show the true ipc I'd imagine
zenith sonnet
IPC means not what it is widely used for nowadays
It's used interchangeably with 'single-threaded performance', or 'single threaded performance at a fixed clock speed'
thick elk
ultimately a cpu with double the ipc and half the clock speed still performs the same
zenith sonnet
But it actually means how many instructions a CPU can handle per clock cycle
And instructions are not equal, at all
AVX512 for example has ridiculously complex instructions and can equal many, many SSE2 instructions
thick elk
of course this is a gross simplification
zenith sonnet
And actually, the one with the higher clock should be faster
You can easily test that:
Take a CPU with 2 cores. Test with 1 core enabled.
Enable 2 cores and half the clock speed. Test again.
People should be talking about STP (single-thread performance), not IPC :p
You cannot really measure IPC, only the resulting performance
thick elk
I was talking about ipc as a magic performance number but in reality a cpu doesn't do everything sequentially even over a single core so yea it won't be as good. There are actually some cases where the 2 cores would win over one core and that is when you have one singlethreaded task filling up one core completely other tasks will run faster on 2 slower cores over one faster core.
I noticed 2 cores 2 threads being a big issue sometimes on some skylake pentiums at work. Some shitty site eats all the performance on one core rendering the system fairly unresponsive where as the slow bulldozer cpu had no such issue
earnest osprey
I'm pretty sure ipc is precisely defined by the architecture
But, that is a very hard value to determine externally
zenith sonnet
All I want is stable 144FPS in games, med graphics no shadows are good enough
When?
π€ Probably not a moment sooner than devs starting to care
Some think 30 FPS with high graphical fidelity sells better...
Some intentionally lock their games to 60 FPS (looking at you, WUBE)
And some are just bad at coding (BL2, Terraria, ... even low end or old games)
zenith sonnet
Nope
Even the most expensive shit doesn't get you stable 144 FPS in the most games
Even ignoring 0.1% lows and looking at 1%
zenith mirage
I'd be happy with 60fps on max settings at this point
spark horizon
at least at 1440p
zenith sonnet
That's much more likely, lol
zenith mirage
Have to turn everything down to get decent frames, which is a shame
Want to upgrade before cyberpunk comes out at least
spark horizon
I get 144 fps on 1440p on menus does that count
zenith sonnet
Going from 60 FPS Ultra to 144FPS med settings, you'll need like twice the CPU performance, usually
ashen spindle
well, means you need to pay for non base stadia version, and it might not look amazing
bc we dont know what format and bitrate you get
pale sigil
Get force now
ashen spindle
o
pale sigil
Had it for like nearly 2 years and I don't pay a single penny π€·
ashen spindle
forgot about it because much less marketing for it lmao
pale sigil
Probably because it's still not out of testing
I wonder how much money they've lost at this point
ashen spindle
maybe Jensen needs to have 30 and not 31 different leather jackets a month now
pale sigil
yo
anyone know a decent way to change fan speeds for gpus on linux
nevermind
nah i did
ashen spindle
I'd say just look if afterburner or so have a linux version
pale sigil
but went into issues
but turns out i misstyped a command to enable nvidia server x control
barely any company supports linux π€·
its to hot in this room tn
@proud nacelle
stop ignoring meh
fallow bison
Thats a weird name, bored rn
nice to meet you, im not Darrell
No im not a dad
im not Darrell
yes i can ban me
no i cant
thick elk
As for fan control on linux when lm-sensors works it can do great things like controlling certain case fans based on gpu temperature or multiple different temperature sources. All in a nice config file so no need to mess with annoying gui's
chrome estuary
idk why but my ryzen is idling at 4ghz
fallow bison
no static OC?
chrome estuary
nope
fallow bison
Dont know, maybe try installing Ryzen master and see if it reverts
pale sigil
reee why is nothing ever simple on linux
cos everything takes a million steps
and is more to fix shit
m80
you install
screencloud
rn
THIS MAKES NO SENSE
IF I HAVE MULTIPLE MONITORS ONE IS BLACK
IF JUST ONE MONITOR ITS FINE
screencloud
look at this shit
chrome estuary
you think i care that my clock is 4ghz idle
pale sigil
if i disable my left monitor
it will take a pic of my main screen
if i have vboth screens on main is black and left is fine!!!!!!!!!!
chrome estuary
welcome to linux
mild zephyr
any known bug when using wootility on arch?
mild zephyr
no u
mild zephyr
keyboard firmware is showing as version 0.0.0 and I don't see an option to update it
vast helmBOT
Hey there! Here is a guide on how to restore your Wooting :)
https://wooting.helpscoutdocs.com/article/16-restore-the-wooting-one
mild zephyr
i copied the udev rules they have on the site and rebooted already
pale sigil
udev rules lets you interact with the wooting
for example i have no udev rules
firmware version is showing fine
mild zephyr
serial number shown on wootility does not match the sticker
vast helmBOT
Hey there! Here is a guide on how to restore your Wooting :)
https://wooting.helpscoutdocs.com/article/16-restore-the-wooting-one
ashen spindle
your system 
mild zephyr
@pale sigil how long should restore take? Been waiting a few minutes now. Typing this from my phone
pale sigil
should only take a min
^
@proud nacelle use the builder to get me soul sand plez
i am
just terminal xD
i do but mostly gui based programs has been an issue so far
i do everything as much as possible via terminal
WELP
I DO
PLEB
shutters website is down so there's barely any damn guide
mild zephyr
@proud nacelle using usb2.0 port, have checked connection across 4 different ports (front and back of case) and two different cables (the wooting cable and one from walmart)
aye, wil summarize everything there
pale sigil
@mild zephyr my first week moving full time to linux on my desktop (i use it for my server and laptops)
I wiped all my installs, now i run Linux on one SSD and Windows on another one that just runs games.
lol
mild zephyr
ahh, I'm fine with proton mostly. I nuked everything on my windows install. even my resume.............
I didn't mean to delete my only copy of my resume, I was just raging at win10
nahhhh, I passed through mint, debian, and fedora in the course of about two weeks
I had used linux before, and even even attempted it as desktop replacement. But this is the longest I've stuck with it so far (almost 2 months).
general frustration at ui/ux coupled with a recently failed upgrade to may 2019 update
I couldn't boot after update failed
so I nuked everything
tried manjaro first, but login would always fail post-install for some reason. so I went to arch
pale sigil
eh
proton is cool
but i dont play many games from steam these days and it sucks for gamesid o play
*i
ashen spindle
I didnt know SIGGRAPH is next week already, wonder if we get any news about gpus this year
not likely with the last releases so close but would be cool
ashen spindle
Maybe more info on Vega cards since apple uses a new model we have no info on
Dunno if any new Turing cards in the quadro space could be made
mild zephyr
I'm excited for Threadripper 3 because that means TR 2 prices will drop
feral jolt
Wouldn't it be a better price/performance to get the newer one unless the 2950 went really low
ashen spindle
depends on what you need
feral jolt
750 for 16 zen 2 cores seems a better deal than 500 for a 2950x
ashen spindle
if its mostly just a shit ton of pcie lanes tr2 is the better option for it
and they might go really low, Tr1 did drop a lot when tr2 came out
feral jolt
I guess they should theoretically go lower than the 3900x
Since they hit about the same benches in all core benchmarks
Maybe 400-450 for a 2950 is possible
ashen spindle
more memory is also a tr feature over desktop parts
zenith sonnet
And channels
If they perform the same, TR is still better value due to additional features
zenith sonnet
unlock phone
location is active and disappears 1 second later
What do they mean by this? π€
zenith sonnet
Hmm
Maybe all the 'issues' with Ryzen 3000 are, that they use the worst binnings for them
Everything that's slightly better goes into threadripper
And all the good ones go into Epyc chips
And we just get the trash leftovers
Well, at least with the 3950X you're (hopefully) paying 250β¬ more to basically get a 3900X with two much better chiplets
wheat plume
That moment when you realize your roaming data using a carrier that doesn't exist in this country is FASTER than the WiFi you have in the hotel
-.-
My carrier doesn't exist here
Yet I'm somehow connected to it
reef patrol
A lot of carriers have deals with other ones across borders.
halcyon moss
Don't all of them have that?
sick creek
They p much all do
Only a few major carriers globally anyway
In the US we have like... 3
Verizon, At&t, t-mobile
Everyone else piggybacks off those networks
Sprint used to as well but i think they are merging or have already merged with t-mobile
pale sigil
Fite me
No
But yes
Windows for server hell no
Desktop, probably still better got almost all users
Linux is only for people who want to put the effort into it
Honestly
That's not a great thing to argue about
Mage
Aye
Ye tino
If you want they then it's great which I did
But if not stick to windows
Windows is only better because of who supports it
Imo
Stuff like appmage and .deb makes Linux very similar to windows
But not enough use a similar method
Really.?
Never had an issue
Did you run or install
Example of what he said though
Once an issue occurs you go through hoops
wheat plume
Xd
zenith sonnet
playing in the settings for a few hours everyday xD
me playing games
pale sigil
If only
Like I'd love to build my own phone
I mean
Define nothing works
Fails to work or isn't supported
Because my entire time the last week or so I've online had issues with 2 programs
But I also agree with that statement
Windows is simply easier
You need to accept Mage
They Linux isn't for everyone
pale sigil
We know
pale sigil
You stumbled on a "friendly" conversation between Mage and tino
safe patrol
Scuuuze me :3
I am with you on Windows though haha
I only run Linux for specific tasks, or old hardware
halcyon moss
as a web dev, windows will not work for me π
safe patrol
Web dev is a great reason for Linux
crimson wigeon
But it's fun to compile for days
safe patrol
I like the idea of Gentoo, but I could not get it set up quickly enough
safe patrol
I really like Slackware when I have the patience
Looking back, it didn't seem that way >.>
truth
because there are 190 billion libraries, and each one has 400 billion versions
halcyon moss
i find that googling on windows is just as hard :troll:
halcyon moss
i've found of the 3 major os's, windows is the best, macos is meh, and linux is Β―_(γ)_/Β―
on backwards compat
crimson wigeon
Not knowing revdep-rebuild 
safe patrol
macos makes me nuts because they try to hide too much of the admin function I want
feral jolt
OS's job is to run programs and windows has the most programs available
crimson wigeon
Perhaps things are slightly more stable nowadays..
halcyon moss
revdep-rebuild... glibc updates... the horror
crimson wigeon
Yeah I think I'm finally done just pulling whatever is in Torvalds' tree and building that, the last few kernels I've built from there have had the fun issue of completely hardlocking at random...
crimson wigeon
Hey it's been reasonably stable in my experience except now π
safe patrol
I got a Rust-lang project you can work on if your that bored haha
halcyon moss
higher standards, and way slower to adopt features
safe patrol
Yeah... I like the stability of BSD's but again... software availability
crimson wigeon
Rust, heyo 5 billion micropackages and gigalong compile times
It's safe and modern and fancy and such, apparently
halcyon moss
seems like you already know what rust is π
safe patrol
that
crimson wigeon
People say they love using it
safe patrol
what @crimson wigeon said
it can also compile to WebAssembly, and has lots of web-templating schemes
crimson wigeon
I personally can't confirm, in my opinion looking at more complex Rust it looks like people just season it with those random characters $"#Β€*βΌ%& etc
safe patrol
lol
crimson wigeon
completely unreadable to me
sick creek
Yeah tbh i dont like when languages use symbols to reduce typing
Like fucking hell if i know what d>>*i means
Learn whatever lang makes sense to you fleimi
Theres bound to be at least one
safe patrol
find a project that you want to do, then figure out what language will do it the way you want π
sick creek
Dont not use a language because its unpopular
safe patrol
I know /that/ feeling
sick creek
i use php and js every day, it makes me money, i laugh when people are like βphp sucksβ
safe patrol
lol
crimson wigeon
Yeah, TS does bring some sanity to JS tho
sick creek
Like yeah maybe it does but i make more money than the nerd crying about how bad php is
sick creek
I havent gotten into typescript yet, but vue is apparently going full ts next major version
crimson wigeon
And seemingly a lot of webdevs don't quite know what they're doing so they pull in a gorillion different frameworks to do things
sick creek
Websites are βjs riddledβ because weβre all using js frameworks to make better websites
Well external urls that arent to a cdn for your own code... yeah, w/e but still
crimson wigeon
Better according to the higherups who demand those things
sick creek
Eh, not easily in my experience
Vue has made my life so much easier
Honestly, unless youβre doing a really basic website
You will be using js
sick creek
As iβve said on here before, i a building an ehr... and it would be page reload after page reload if i was not using a js framework
Css is styling?
Css doesnt always behave properly
Especially with mouseover/focus/etc
Also, with css you have to structure your html very specifically
Which can be problematic
safe patrol
yeah... I was trying to keep my project JS minimal, but its painful
sick creek
With vue i just flip a boolean to show/hide an element and its much easier to do complex interactions... for ex i can later make a tutorial that guides the user to all the features and by flipping that same boolean i can open the menu for them without their interaction
Like with js you have way more control i guess
Whereas css, while its possible to do a lot of menu type stuff, is more restrictive in how its interacted with
thick elk
The problem is not the use of javascript for a dropdown as the js for that is just a few lines. The problem is the use of large frameworks in places that really don't need that much. Worse still is when they can't be bothered to minify the damn thing.
sick creek
Ya i use webpack for all that
Concat, minify, tree shaking, etc
My app is still about 1MB tho
After all the compression
Not gzipped tho
golden girder
@digital cliff Even to install Arch Linux is a hassle.
So I wonder why people go through it at all.
The next thing is, if people are able to install it they should know that the setup would be even worse. So they should only use it when they are know what they are doing, so I'm surprised that they can't figure the udev things out by their own.
crimson wigeon
It isn't really a hassle to install
I might be biased tho since the first time I installed both Arch and Gentoo they had proper installers still π
golden girder
If you are just following the external instruction without knowing and understanding you should not use it at all in my optionion.
crimson wigeon
Tru dat, but the point is you don't have to muck around with udev rules while installing
golden girder
It's a shame what you even need external instruction...
As I wrote, if the installation is so complex you should know that the setup will be even worse.
crimson wigeon
Don't think anyone knows
golden girder
If people don't care they must skip these kind of distributions.
People should know that Linux is complex by default, there some standard settigns aren't done for you and there are a lot of thing to setup.
So if the installation is that complex for Arch without any proper guide, you should know that your are lost later on.
If you need to search for an installation guide, you must know that you have to search for everything you want to archive.
Even the main installation guide isn't really complete for Arch. I must search for others to set it up right.
crimson wigeon
How isn't it complete?
golden girder
Which folder? At which point?
crimson wigeon
.. but if I remember correctly it's just a text version of https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Installation_guide
golden girder
One sentece for metioning the bootloader, without any example.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Installation_guide#Boot_loader
So you need to search other guides in order to set it up, because if you follow the link there isn't any guide for it.
crimson wigeon
Well yeah it's time for you to choose one and then click through to instructions for that loader π
golden girder
Not mentioned at all!
No word about that you still need a bootloader, because of this. You can choose from this list, bla bla bla...
crimson wigeon
Well I'd imagine if you're installing a distro that doesn't have an ez installer you're expected to know that
golden girder
That's what I'm saying, if you don't know that you are shrewd and if you know that you must know the other things too!
Or in other words you are shrewd the first times anyway. Because it's kind of all the same for Linux. Often there isn't a real proper guide what you must do and why, with an explanation for it. So you can learn it.
Luckily there is Google, because you must search for everything...
crimson wigeon
Of course, I installed Gentoo before Arch and Gentoo has (had?) a very comprehensive install handbook
golden girder
Forget about to setup Linux completly if you don't have an active internet connection. Or you must be a Pro.
thick elk
Arch used to have a beginners guide which basically gave some defaults but they changed things around at some point. Still for me personally arch is one of the easiest distro's to work with because it follows the defaults of packages in general and its really well documented.
Gentoo is nice if you like to watch things get compiled
golden girder
Your opinion of well documented seems to be different than mine...
Possible that it's better for Arch than some others, but I wouldn't trust me to call it so.
thick elk
Never had any problems with the documentation, sure its not perfect but there is always the man pages of the individual packages. Still try looking through the documentation of windows, from my experience really not great.
Granted a smaller percentage actually needs it but still
golden girder
True that the docs for Win are even worse, but you don't need them at all I would say.
thick elk
I personally do sometimes and besides documentation I'd take a config file and in a standard location over the windows registry any day. Then again I am not the average consumer.
Still my main reason for using on everything but my gaming rig is that automating things with multiple command line applications which exist in the standard repositories is way more easier then doing the same thing on windows. Even with subsystem linux. Also I really like the way the ui of kde can be set to work
wheat plume
@qlum#6463 fellow plasma user ?
pale sigil
Plasma is lame
crimson wigeon
Plasma is relatively decent I wish it had better multimonitor support
And maybe just some overall more polish
Why can I drag and scroll certain things with my mouse like it's my finger?
wheat plume
Wdym by "drag and drop like it's my finger"?
Isn't that how it's meant to work? You hold the titlebar and move things
crimson wigeon
As in certain things you can just click and drag to scroll