Osto-Ayak (Doom of Mokhaiotl)

[nimble crest]

oh wait, it doesnt die

lmfao

[night zephyr]

Yeah not sure what makes it not die

[craggy cobalt]

if you don't click off a grub while you're hitting it it won't die

iirc

I've noticed it when I'm using eye to kill them

[nimble crest]

probably nice for f1-4

but f5+ first 25% dmg is w.e

[burnt lichen]

the venator bow thing isnt good because ur targeting grub, only 1 bounce on boss

[weary garden]

I should replace ember light w/ dark light right?

[arctic niche]

reduce ur death cost ye

[nimble crest]

i was doing that but i didnt like darklight being 5t

[weary garden]

Ooo that is gross lol

[sudden lotus]

does that make much of a difference? you only use it on boss when dps isn't really an issue and on grubs ist still no cooldown

[north axle]

yeah but it's 1t

[crystal lark]

im well aware this is a skill issue get good etc but man there are so many frustrating ways to die on this boss that are partially out of your control

[north axle]

There doesn't seem to be a consistent way to force a southwest grub spawn

[proven owl]

eh i feel like they actually made it so basically everything that can kill you is skill issue

there are a few things that are kinda bullshit like triple melee grub into boulders w8+

just have to let them go in which doesnt feel great

even then they made grubs do no dmg so its not that bad

[kind sandal]

They patch the car park?

[crystal lark]

could just be cope but I kinda feel like this becomes less true the worse your gear is because you end up with more acid build up and more opportunities to get screwed on the orb phase

[craggy cobalt]

Yes, if you drive him onto a rock it nulls the first slam but destroys the rock

[north axle]

so you just go side > corner > middle?

[craggy cobalt]

I think so

Can you only rock block the first slam on the north or east side?

[proven owl]

maybe you need to claim a delve earlier but i mean people are clearing to w20+ so i think you're prob fine to claim w10-12 or so

bad gear does make it more difficult but i don't think it causes any especially unfair mechanics

[burnt lichen]

yes but u still do it to null 1 stomp

[night zephyr]

I'm waiting for some jank removal before I go for 8+ runs with just scobo. Too frustrating as is.

[plucky turret]

didnt really look into the car phase tech before is the stomp nulling the thing where u put two rocks apart and manip him over the second rock?

[weary garden]

I think I’d be happier with this boss if the orb phase jank is better.
That’s 99% of what I’m dying to

[elfin flax]

Don’t necessarily die to it directly

But the triple mage grubs + double rocks while setting up orb post car phase

Is kind of an insane combo

Considering it can also be just regular autos at that exact same phase the next level

[weary garden]

I think I’ve just got a skill issue lmao. I need to learn how to deal with orb phase better since I’m guaranteed to see it wave 6+

[elfin flax]

For orb phase I just insta proc the far one

And wait for 3 attacks from doom

Proc close a few ticks after the third attack

Can dps a bit if it’s low and potentially kill

But if it’s gonna survive, you’ll definitely finish it on 2nd car phase so way better off just focusing on survival

[celest robin]

nah that was me lmao

[keen rapids]

in theory can't you just put two rocks and have the car drive back and forth between the two of them?

oh

i mean before the hotfix today

where he destroys the ones he's directly on top of

[languid iron]

Is there any difference between dark light/skull Sceptre and emberlight/purging?

[keen rapids]

not really

[mighty rain]

Not really no

[keen rapids]

emberlight might be nice to squeeze out extra dps when hitting the boss between grubs

if you're using void might as well go with the cheapest options for lower death cost

that's what i do

[languid iron]

What do you mean extra dps

Also I’m not sure I can get it under 250k anyway even with void

Scy/tbow/zcb expensive lol

[keen rapids]

my current setup is 65k deaths but ive gotten it as low as like 5k

[languid iron]

Also what does not really mean? Is there any difference?

[keen rapids]

if you are hitting the boss with it

it hits harder

[languid iron]

Oh

Yeah don’t really ever do that

Lemme play around see how low I can get the cost

[keen rapids]

also the reason i binned my melee switches, the punish mechanic doesn't seem to happen enough to justify 3 slots for +12ish damage

[lone carbon]

I just brought prims instead of pegs tbh

[keen rapids]

(not mine)

[languid iron]

Can bring it down to 100k by binning emberlight/purging/buckler

Or 50k with protect item I guess, not sure if worth

Oh damn looks like buckler only brings zcb spec accuracy from 83->84% not worth

Get an extra inv spot too without it

[north axle]

Darklight is 5t if you misclick and then need to mage

So use arclight if possible

I also heard purge spec is instant but not sure if true

[wispy knot]

My death costs come in at around 8k. Full void, anguish, scobo, blue moon spear (could just be a skull sceptre idk might need to farm it), lightbearer.

The bulk of it is the thralls book and lightbearer

[night zephyr]

Yeah mine was 8k before I switched from lightbearer to ultor. 50k now, so still quite cheap

[stuck cape]

can test shortly

[kind sandal]

What is the solution to not getting melee'd when killing double/triple melee grubs

[stuck cape]

prot melee reduces melee dmg, also right after he shoots something he doesn't melee i believe.

can also be aggressive in early waves so grubs hit/heal very low amount

[weary garden]

My biggest hurdle rn is dodging the falling rock, moving, then starting the 3 flicks. Mostly the moving part lol. I find that I ctrl click early if I have to move to dodge the boulder

[ivory ravine]

Do you lose arrows on grubs or was that debunked?

[keen rapids]

Definitely at least swap out ember and purging for darklight and skull sceptre

You can drop trick emberlight and buy darklight for 1k

[keen rapids]

Oh huh yeah this is true I never realized that

That's still not significant though imo

[celest robin]

neither are death costs really. idk personally I'd rather have the qol of the 4 tick weapon than a slightly reduced death cost that's already 1/2 of a main's, while we can benefit fully from dupes in death's coffer

[keen rapids]

I knew ember was 4t and dark was 5t but never made the connection that upgrading it makes it faster

[celest robin]

fun fact, arclight running out of charges also makes it 5t

even though it doesn't revert back to darklight visually

[keen rapids]

that is a fun fact

also idk my death coffer dropped below 10m from sensory clouding and i don't really ever get dupes (wah) or just prefer to drop to main for bond money etc

[stuck cape]

can confirm that this works

purg spec removes the autocast delay

[keen rapids]

i raided the seed vault for tree seeds to bring the coffer back up

[idle fog]

im still waiting on the ability to coffer my oathplate acquisition contract

[keen rapids]

I have an aether acquisition contract is that worth anything

[rugged rune]

Pretty sure it wasn’t a thing, though I didn’t see any formal confirmation

[night zephyr]

It's only dropped 35m while we've been waiting

[signal cipher]

just send it and coffer the oathplate

[fast latch]

gonna be in a retirement home before those are death cofferable

[weary garden]

Can we coffer oathplate yet?

[signal cipher]

can you not?

[weary garden]

I haven’t tried in a while, but last time I tried it was still disabled

[signal cipher]

i see

[stuck cape]

so if hit the punish too fast the boss can hit you the same tick as a boulder hit?

am i going crazy

[night zephyr]

What you mean?

[craggy cobalt]

Correct

if you proc the punish on the first or second tick of it starting you can get auto'd by the boss at the same time that the boulder projectiles are still flying at you

[night zephyr]

Oh the 2 autos on 1 tick bug

[craggy cobalt]

so you chance getting ranged and maged on same tick yea

[night zephyr]

If we don't see a wall of jank that gets fixed tomorrow it'll be sad.

I'd prob stop delving for a week.

[weary garden]

With the way they just hotfixed the car park, I doubt there’s anything coming

[night zephyr]

Yama release keeps me hopeful. They were on top of changes/tweaks to that boss the first 2 weeks

[keen rapids]

They usually make tweaks i don't see why they wouldn't for this

[night zephyr]

There's a lot of obvious jank to fix that people have been vocal about. And most of it seems reasonable to fix even with spaghetti code

I heard the mage autocast delay might be difficult

[signal cipher]

cant wait to be able to 2t autocast mine again

[proven owl]

tbf i feel like they might have fixed most of the worst parts

orb is a lot easier now than on release, rock block tech staying kinda solves rock falling rng and they removed full on parking

imo the main issues i have are melee grubs and no way to clear acid

but the last part might be intentional so people don't farm to wave 50 or something if they felt like

maybe they just want people to do w10-w15 runs where acid doesn't become as big of an issue

[weary garden]

Isn’t there new tech to clear acid? Something about killing the boss with a single hit melee weapon?

[lone carbon]

Think if boss dies to melee attack it should proc holy water, but I read its currently bugged for wave8+ and never/doesn''t always proc it

[proven owl]

ye i think there are a lot of bugs/intended mechanics that block holy water from spawning when ud expect it to

not sure what their stance on it is

[kind sandal]

Ive heard they're making eye 0t on grubs tomorrow, 2nd hand account of mod Nox saying this

any confirmation?

[mighty rain]

eye 0t

wdym by this

[kind sandal]

functions like demon bane

and 1 shots

[mighty rain]

oh hit 2 dmg

i heard someone else say they were going to make the demonbane autocast 1t

but idk, any solution would be welcomed

[kind sandal]

That sounds less likely given that they found it too difficult to do pre-launch

Giving eye .1% demonbane would be a good bandaid

[night zephyr]

Eye demonbane feels fair, but annoying

Hope you get eye first angle even more

[mighty rain]

yeah fair, assumed it was engine work or something since they made eye get 10-20 charges back

[proven owl]

based saves an invent slot

i hope they put the fix on eye

i have to bring it with me regardless

[kind sandal]

Ive already awakened the 3rd eye

[craggy cobalt]

3rd eye gang

[mighty rain]

I mean if they put it on the eye

[night zephyr]

The 0 tick melees on transitions

And the jank hitbox are my two biggest complaints right now

[kind sandal]

mage is most annoying to me I think

Just feels bad

[proven owl]

ive never noticed the hitbox being weird but the melees do feel a bit toxic sometimes

melee grubs are most annoying to me

[night zephyr]

Especially because you need to let the melee grub touch the boss to get explosion damage. Your tiles are limited so your only safe tile to kill the grub there might force you next to boss

[proven owl]

ye u need pretty slick movement to deal with melee grubs without taking dmg and it can be impossible depending on acid

[kind sandal]

demonbane hally when

new niche

[night zephyr]

I don't think boss should be able to melee you during the slam special either.

[lone carbon]

I didn't know it could melee you during slam lmao, yeah that should be changed

[deft estuary]

What's the rock tech now that park is removed?

[kind sandal]

park and go corner middle

[deft estuary]

My crutch..

[kind sandal]

Its not that big a deal, you just cant turbo spam knives every kill now

[craggy cobalt]

here is my list of complaints copied from another disc

There's a few bugs. From most glaring to least glaring:

1. You can't mage the grubs in 1t
2. You can get hit and damaged by falling rocks after the boss is dead
3. The boss instantly does an invisible melee if you are next to him when his shield goes down in delve 3-4
4. The melee punish phase starts, and then sometimes gets cancelled by the demon shield
5. If you proc the melee punish too fast you chance getting hit by two attack styles on the same tick
6. If you attack him with a demonbane weapon and the attack lands the tick before the projectile fires, the projectile still fires
7. Melee punish phase start doesn't stop you from attacking like demonic shield phase start does
8. Thralls and burn damage make the boss spawn acid (possibly not a bug, but also not a fun mechanic)

[deft estuary]

That was best part tho

Free 150 damage

[celest robin]

I'm sure it's not this simple but I can't wrap my head around why it's hard to fix. Totally get that mage works completely differently under the hood, but can you not 0t spells in royal titans? Seems like it's already solved.

[weary garden]

This is what I’ve been doing and it’s been pretty simple

[plucky turret]

you can 0t the objects but not the npcs afaik

[night zephyr]

Yeah that's most of what I'm hoping for to be fixed tomorrow

[deft estuary]

Back to the old tech then?

[plucky turret]

im guessing the spaghetti stems from that

[celest robin]

ahhh yeah that's probably an important difference

[proven owl]

this is bad cuz it relies on 2 rocks imo

but its also got the benefit of being able to be used on 4 spots

[mighty rain]

well its good for w8

u get two rocks

[craggy cobalt]

yeah the tech now is just to place one rock on the old park tile, so it nulls the first slam, and then you 100% of the time have rocks for slam 2-3

[proven owl]

ye u just never get to rock block up to w8

[weary garden]

I’m scobow/no zcb so I usually get 2 rocks without waiting much anyways lmao

[mighty rain]

ye thats fair

[craggy cobalt]

you want to null the first slam, and then try and get him to go far distances so you can get the extra hit or two

[proven owl]

i think ideally u use more than 1 solution atm

[mighty rain]

ive found putting one rock down and moving him to the corner with the least rocks spawned very reliable for pre w8

[proven owl]

i dont think there is any solution that perfectly solves for everything

[craggy cobalt]

that and relying on scripted solutions isn't necessary, and gets punished by acid ragging sometimes

[deft estuary]

Acid is tad frequent

[craggy cobalt]

I do with there were some way to clean up acid

[mighty rain]

just make the orb protect u from acid damage

[craggy cobalt]

Even the last hit with melee doesn't reliably spawn water

[mighty rain]

wait

is it last hit melee at any time at all?

[craggy cobalt]

I've heard different things

but it's inconsistent anyways

[mighty rain]

ive only seen it happen on shield break

[craggy cobalt]

btw on the topic of earthen shield

I have a cook that getting meleed by the boss keeps him from spawning double boulders

I'm not certain it's true and it's probably definitely not good

[mighty rain]

its true

but u gotta time it good

[craggy cobalt]

but theoretically getting meleed once or twice is better than getting killed by boulders lol

for a noob who wants to brute for a wave 8/9 completion

[mighty rain]

throw on the justi then stand next to him

actually wanna try that

unless the melee is just 100% accurate then doesnt matter

[craggy cobalt]

it's definitely not

arguably I think the melee is inaccurate-ish

I get hit 0s moderately often

[night zephyr]

1. You can't mage the grubs in 1t
   -if engine limits, make eye 1% demonbane

2. You can get hit and damaged by falling rocks after the boss is dead
   -null damage post wave

3. The boss instantly does an invisible melee if you are next to him when his shield goes down in delve 3-4
   -give boss couple tick attack cooldown when leaving phases

4. The melee punish phase starts, and then sometimes gets cancelled by the demon shield
   -allow melee punish phase to stay longer and only transition to shield after shield is broke or attack fired (don't null damage from punish hit of course)

5. If you proc the melee pun
   ish too fast you chance getting hit by two attack styles on the same tick
   -same as 3.

6. If you attack him with a demonbane weapon and the attack lands the tick before the projectile fires, the projectile still fires
   -fix bug/delay firing by 1 more tick (doesn't line up with progress bar)

7. Melee punish phase start doesn't stop you from attacking like demonic shield phase start does
   -fix interaction to be consistent (code exists already at boss for this)

8. Thralls and burn damage make the boss spawn acid (possibly not a bug, but also not a fun mechanic)
   -make hitsplat have to be above 5 damage to trigger acid splat.

[proven owl]

i think you misunderstood what i said

i mean there is no rock dropping solution that solves for every state the room is in cuz of acid

[night zephyr]

Ohh lol oops ignore my reply to you then

Just take it as suggested solutions for all the issues

[craggy cobalt]

yeah #7 is potentially as simple as giving melee punish a different NPC id. obviously there would be more going on under the hood for that but it would fix the attack interrupt issue, and people could tag it to look slightly different which helps with clarity to distinguish it from demonic shield phase

[night zephyr]

Yeah I would think different ID would auto solve it + give us those benefits.

[main briar]

#2 is on the list to be coldfixed at least

[night zephyr]

Hopefully they fix the autos chasing you to the next delve with that fix at the same time

Saw some clips of that today

[mighty rain]

I just saw that and have never experienced it before

and I quickstart all the way to wave 6

[celest robin]

projectiles closing the interface is almost as annoying as the post-death debris

almost

[kind sandal]

you have to like 1t the next floor for that to happen just after a boulder is launched lol

[celest robin]

not talking about that

[mighty rain]

ironically that's beneifical to us

no I know what u mean

but it forces u to double check it

[celest robin]

oh I see

yeah true 😄

[night zephyr]

https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/s/uwEhDWLkjk

This one is even more concerning.

Idk how Muts feels confident doing this boss right now

[kind sandal]

Lmao, less deadly but more annoying is not pausing player attacks for melee punish

like it does for charge

I just click off whenever it goes for boulders now

[celest robin]

sir, a 17th bug has hit the delve

[night zephyr]

Almost as bad as you not getting your deserved 4th pet clog.

[celest robin]

[mighty rain]

need

[plucky turret]

only the full boots should have the wings tbh

or atleast the 't3' ones

[mighty rain]

hot take

the wings are shit

take em off

[merry lotus]

I don't get why they're black it reflects nothing on the boss

Avernic I guess

[keen rapids]

mournings ends ahh

[orchid summit]

do y’all think some of these paint points we’ve found are because nox tested with crush scythe? maybe we were never intended to tbow this thing lol

[fickle bobcat]

i think it was just obviously rushed because it had to be done with the rest of varlamore p3

[desert thorn]

its a good boss but feels rushed

like the awful clickbox this mf has

[tribal igloo]

At least a new clickbox has been confirmed

[proven owl]

i think they might just have a philosophy of using players as free testers tbh

[proven owl]

which might be fair tbh they're never gonna find half the issues players find anyway

[celest robin]

||the grub landed on the tile of a volatile earth, extending the clickbox of that tile significantly, and volatile earth menu entry prioritizes over grubs.||

[desert thorn]

lol

[craggy cobalt]

I spent like 15 minutes trying to figure out how to melee the boss and it was pure suffering

So I somehow doubt that was the intended method

[celest robin]

nox built diff

[keen rapids]

the boss somehow figures out a way to melee you on every tick you're in his melee range

unless he's shielded

but you break that shield and god knows he'll hit you before you even see it's broken

[craggy cobalt]

demonbane crush halberd when

[merry lotus]

The boss is tick perfect

He definitely has a pestle and mortar in his inventory

[sturdy smelt]

Wait is this real?

If that is actually what they look like I don't even want rangers

The mage+melee combo pops off

[mighty rain]

someones reddit post

that or multiple cosmetics for the boots would be a goated dev time investment

considering boots will be bis FOREVER

[sturdy smelt]

o

sad I thought it was coming to game

[mighty rain]

now we just need the aranea/devout/echo combo...

[sturdy smelt]

no thats delve 2

[leaden vault]

dont forget mole slippers

[mighty rain]

the holy moleys

[leaden vault]

is there a way to mark all fallen rocks?

[tribal igloo]

Nope

[leaden vault]

would it be like in xarpus room where you need to manually mark each spot?

[dense ginkgo]

I think so yeah

and PNM/Vale Totems

[arctic niche]

i take back what i said about dropping bp i still really like it

[dense ginkgo]

it's very nice on f5 especially

[arctic niche]

ye

im not really bringing anything else anywa

[keen rapids]

bp spec the car is nice

[elfin flax]

goin high waves might be a morning only piece of content lol

idk about you guys but these high player counts actually brick my connection

random tick lag few times a min

[signal cipher]

yeah 1100 pop is not great but playable

which is what worlds had felt like for the last few weeks

but the last week its gotten too bad for me to do some things in the evenings

[nimble crest]

2.2k worlds bis

[signal cipher]

prob time to go 2.2k ye

[nimble crest]

boss is fun but this is kinda depressing

any other account build would be fucked

[elfin flax]

do total lvl worlds not ahve the dc all the time anymore?

[nimble crest]

been okay for like 2-3 years

at least eu

[signal cipher]

yeah the us one has been playable as well

[maiden cedar]

I wonder if the servers being shitty is why this boss feels awful

I've been sitting like 94-95% tick health all week

So every 20 ticks there's just a bad tick

[keen rapids]

us east unplayable due to high population
uk worlds recently unplayable due to ?? idek what
literally been playing on german worlds

[north axle]

Quiver swap amethyst dragon on 8

It's tech I'm telling you

You do not need draconical ammunition on wave 1

[leaden vault]

rune arrows 1-7 🫡

[nimble crest]

maybe i got a lot to waste rn

btw what does delve max hit in melee with pray melee

does he always melee in melee range, was thinking u could just afk in melee range as a cheese strat on w8

[north axle]

It's like 2t 30s or something?

[leaden vault]

justi tech 😏

[nimble crest]

scrap that idea if its 2t then

[night zephyr]

I know this is a pointless exercise since we don't know the rates, but let's assume there's no scaling for deeper delves.

Let's say wave 1-3 takes me 3 minutes + 1 minute run to get through.

Each wave above 5 takes me an extra 1.25 minutes due to scobo DPS/extra shields.

If I am more than say 50% likely to die on wave 8, it doesn't make sense to commit an extra potential 1-2 minutes killing the boss and then dying, when I could spend that time getting towards guaranteed 4+ rolls again. An extra. I would think I have to consistently clear 3+ delves past 5 to get a benefit from delving deeper (3x1.25 = 3.75 minutes saved). Which would mean consistently clearing 8. And that doesn't even account for if I die with 1-2 minutes already committed to killing 8.

Is my logic bad here? Obviously the issue gets solved by getting good, but that's a lot easier said than done with scobo DPS

[celest robin]

Suppose you have a 50% chance to die to 8 (and by extension ~any 8+ wave, since they have less HP, this obviously falls apart the further you go but it's probably accurate to like 12). Then you can't just take 50% chance of +1 completion 50% of 0, gotta do the series of 50% chance of 0, 25% chance of 1, 12.5% chance of 2, etc etc

evens out to "sending the run is expected +1 completion"

[verbal edge]

I think doing math like this is pointless until we know the rates

As you said in your first sentence

[craggy cobalt]

We know for a fact that the unique rates are better at higher delves, and the only way to get better at D8+ is to practice

So if your loot doesn't have stuff you care about in it, which is usually the case, descend

[night zephyr]

Well you got me there

[past otter]

personally, i onyl care about the aether, if there is aether on wave 7 i claim, otherwise, ill just send till i die

[celest robin]

• tooth half on waves 1-4
• <40 hp and no brews
• unique
• death

only possible outcomes

[night zephyr]

Cloggers hate me. I've died 6+ with many tooth halves on the line

[celest robin]

actually I have teled out if I have slow enough brain to not interrupt demonbane shield but fast enough brain to notice I'm about to eat shit

so 5 outcomes

[stuck cape]

I think this makes sense if wave 8 is just wave 8 and it’s 5% better or whatever.

But w8 repeats indefinitely , so by getting good at wave 8, you unlock wave 10,12,15, and it becomes exponentially better.

I think there’s no way you can justify not doing 8 because of that,

[celest robin]

yea the intangible value of practice is massive

[stuck cape]

Even if it takes you 1500 delves to get good at it, it’ll probably be worth it

[night zephyr]

That's probably the best point

[stuck cape]

If it was 1-7 vs 1-8, I’d agree for most shidders 1-7 is fine

[celest robin]

FWIW w8 is a brickwall always bc it has 675 hp, 9 is unironically a victory lap, the dps check is so much more consistent

[stuck cape]

That’s funny bc I have 1 wave 9 clear lol

[night zephyr]

Doesn't matter for scobo users

wave 8 and above are the same.

[stuck cape]

Eh, I’ve had no orb w8s, you can still high roll dps

With scobo no spec wep

I’ve also had kills where I get orb b4 car

[celest robin]

ya the 50 hp diff is like really big

[night zephyr]

You have to have a deep car proc

Which you could fish for

[celest robin]

tbow/scobow are different but not so different that you can't 0-orb 8+

[stuck cape]

And attack during start of tree

[coral basalt]

I just have inconsistent wave 8 because the poison gets overwhelming (only scobo/darklight/slayer staff)

[stuck cape]

Just drink an antivenom and ignore it

[celest robin]

yep

acid will never kill you

||within reason||

[coral basalt]

Yeah I probably need to stop panicking with it

[stuck cape]

Acid and grubs and shadows/debris are 3 things to stop worrying about if ur struggling to clear w8

And the stomp, tanking 1 stomp is fine, better than panic getting run over and missing flicks,

Trying to get to a rock in narnia

[night zephyr]

I'd rather consistently have to do orb though almost.

It's trying to focus on DPS and skipping orb that kills me. Knowing it's rarer for my DPS makes me want to prioritize that.

If I know I hit a deep shield phase HP proc below 75%, id commit to it

[nimble crest]

boulders dont even feel bad anymore

its just everythin else around it

[celest robin]

frankly tanking 2 stomps is fine

like

go into roomba at 99 hp

[nimble crest]

its the same 6 flicks every time

[celest robin]

do not brew unless you will literally die

because if you do early and miss dps you'll almost certainly die later

[night zephyr]

I always make sure I'm 115 going into car phase

[celest robin]

I can get behind that. In that case the biggest thing that helped me with orb was pecanbread's guide, specifically this chart

as soon as I stopped trying to intuit when orbs would go off it became way more manageable

like auto -> boulder is "easy" now it's dodge, flick/flick/flick/click volatile/flick/flick

it's clearly designed to give you that moment w/ the b2b same prayer hit

the only truly cursed one is boulder + boulder and if that happens frankly I just die

but the others this helped a lot

[stuck cape]

Reynolds has a 1-8 vod/guide where he doesn’t even flick the rocks during orb

Scobo only , meant for billybobs

[night zephyr]

Yeah studying that chart got me my first 8 clear.

I was struggling with 8 before he dropped that gem

[fickle bobcat]

im still struggling with 8

[night zephyr]

I honestly might be better at 8 than I am expecting too. I literally haven't gone back since I got my 1 clear, and I got it on my 2nd try after watching the pecan guide. All my other tries were basically insta deaths.

I've been convinced to switch back to brews and delving deep.

Thanks lads

[craggy cobalt]

D E S C E N D

[night zephyr]

The new rock tech for nulling first stomp will be huge too.

I took a ton of damage from stomps on my 8 clear.

[craggy cobalt]

Yeah nulling first slam is absolutely the play, I didn't want to learn park the car cause I figured it would be removed, but if they're gonna keep slam nulls then it's worth learning and doing

It saves your rocks

[celest robin]

I like

might be stupid

but I genuinely find first slam null harder

having to wait and then sprint forward to melee punish is a bit too chaotic for me

I've just spent the time tanking slams figuring out ways to semi-consistently do car phase damageless

my vague plan these days is bait him to an empty corner and be willing to run far for the first rocks, then try to bait him to move as short a distance horizontally/vertically as possible

and that's usually enough to get 3/3 dodges

at least until acid eats every rock

[night zephyr]

You are far enough away that your run should dodge the 2nd rock too.

You still might get hit by the extra debris though

[celest robin]

yea I get the theory but idk something about it fucks with me

[fast latch]

The 0 autos? You're done flicking when u proc orb

[celest robin]

it's also like, am I supposed to hold DPS if the tbow pops off and wait for a boulder?

idk it just doesn't vibe with me and it's probably a me problem

[celest robin]

fr?

[night zephyr]

Oh idk about tbow issues lol. There's no chance in hell that scobo clears the shield before a rock

[nimble crest]

if you get a 2nd boulder before shield on f6-f8 plant it on a strategic different ninedrant that you will use for the 2nd slam

[celest robin]

yeah that makes perf sense ok

yea getting 2 boulders is fine it's the 0-boulder that throws me off tbh

[fast latch]

The 2 autos first is Hella

[celest robin]

but at this point I'm unlikely to change lmao

the empty corner first bait is truly magical though

it's incredible how often it 'just works'

the only way it goes wrong is if you bait it center for slam 2

so if anyone is dumb like me and can't quite wrap your head around rock tech, hope that helps lol

[night zephyr]

Do you guys like middle middle or a wall middle for its last resting spot?

I've been liking the wall middle

[celest robin]

personally large fan of middle middle

it keeps acid stacked in the same place

and that usually keeps the edges clean enough to get a long orb angle

[night zephyr]

Guess acid hasn't really been a consideration for me since I've been 7 resetting and not descending

[north axle]

Crazy word

[craggy cobalt]

https://medal.tv/games/osrs/clips/kM4OlZ4QimbSPvB64?v=120

this was posted in HLD, not sure if it was posted here, but this has helped so much for boulders for me

[nimble crest]

Yea this is nice

[fallow terrace]

damn been doing 1-6 700 delves in still no drop

[night zephyr]

Alright im comitting to deep delves 100%. Got my first 9 clear. This is way more fun than resetting at 7

[wise spire]

iirc the early napkin estimates are 1/100-1/1000 depending on depth, so 700 for 1-6 is probably only slightly dry

[fallow terrace]

yea i figured

[wise spire]

it's kinda cringe

[arctic niche]

deep delve waves have 10x rate ur saying?

[signal cipher]

of lv 1 probably

[wise spire]

not exactly

[signal cipher]

or close to it

[arctic niche]

or is that compared wave 1 vs wave 10

[wise spire]

it's just a vague range for what the droprate could be from 1 single delve

not that 8+ is 10x 1

[night zephyr]

8+ has a 0x rate of wave 1 technically

[wise spire]

so it could be, for example, that at 1 you hit 1/500 and at 8+ you hit 1/250

[night zephyr]

uniques arent possible on wave 1 lol

[signal tree]

anyone have a bug where you get a clan broadcast for personal bests every wave 8 completion? clearly not getting pbs...

[wise spire]

current evidence doesn't seem to point at it being more common than 1/100 or rarer than 1/1000 on any given depth

[night zephyr]

Yeah its happening in my cc too

[signal tree]

ah okay kinda annoying

[wise spire]

but given that we know it most likely scales with depth, and it's a pretty broad ass range, it wouldn't surprise me for a person doing 1-8 claims to see a unique every 400-500 or so total delves

[limber finch]

Do we have an idea yet of whether the scaling is linear with delve level?

[wise spire]

also muts is doing it on his hc

[wise spire]

afaik no, it's too biased and janky to tell

[limber finch]

Ah yeah I figured

[wise spire]

cook said they might not even be able to tell if there's a difference between low and high depths

it's just too muddy

[compact shuttle]

its a wait for jagex next week angle

[limber finch]

Definitely seems like a wait for jagex angle

[wise spire]

🤝

[compact shuttle]

[keen rapids]

thoughts on glaive as a spec weapon if no zcb

its adding 50k to my death costs but idk if its even worth taking

[craggy cobalt]

I think I'd pref chally specs tbh

[night zephyr]

Chally + blowpipe combo are gonna be better

[keen rapids]

plus i could take ultor instead of lb

[night zephyr]

Ultor is very nice for chally.

[arctic niche]

common ralos L

[night zephyr]

+6 damage each spec

[keen rapids]

oh im taking void btw

fwiw

[night zephyr]

Yeah the +6 is considering void

Chally by itself is +118 so +12 gets you +6

[craggy cobalt]

defense drain on a boss with 600 hp where your DPS is already over 9 is just so meh

[leaden vault]

d knives are still great tbh

[night zephyr]

And 60+% of the damage you do is during 100% accuracy

[craggy cobalt]

I think Reckless is doing 1-7 resets

so probably not quire 60%, also I think Masori vambs would be better in that case

[keen rapids]

curious where you got that idea

[craggy cobalt]

uhh thought I saw you say it somewhere

maybe im confusing you with someone else

[keen rapids]

i just cant consistently clear w8

[craggy cobalt]

oh its Jawn doing 1-7, I just saw green M and can't read lol

[weary garden]

I no longer hate this boss (I claimed too quick for the screenshot LMAO)

[celest robin]

one of us, one of us

[royal whale]

depths 5+ take like 3 minutes for me, what can i be doing differently? Im using chally specs and have void+scobow with amethyst

[merry lotus]

hitting all the grubs you can? divine pots + rigour?

[stuck cape]

Ur getting car phase -> orb -> grub shield -> kill?

[royal whale]

yes i generally kill melee grubs before they get to him tho unless its shield phase so he doesnt smack me

[royal whale]

idk what this means. can you maniupulate the phase order?

[celest robin]

okay, I need all of you to put on your best tinfoil hats for the next 5 seconds

why do you suppose the dragon platelegs are unnoted

[night zephyr]

I see what you all meant about how the lesser hp feels for 8+.

Didn't realize how much of a difference 50 hp makes. If I prioritize blowpipe uptime and potentially tanking last stomp + blowpipe speccing I can definitely get skips semi frequently

[royal whale]

because you can deposit to bank

[night zephyr]

Mokha pked them off noobs.

[celest robin]

but the other stuff is noted

[royal whale]

dt2 spaghet

[celest robin]

I buy this

[celest robin]

yeah it's actually insane, glad you've seen the light 😄

[night zephyr]

Makes me tempted to put lightbearer back on, but I'll feel it out

[lost wagon]

For someone struggling with wave8, how worth it is a swap between amethyst and dragon arrows in quiver just for that wave?

[stuck cape]

Just use dragon, what r u saving it for

It’s like 3 max hits

[celest robin]

if there was ever a time to use it it's now

[stuck cape]

This is the end game boss to use it at

It has a mechanic that rewards you for killing it faster, more than any other boss we have

[craggy cobalt]

Yeah I feel very comfortable expending all the "valuable" resources here, dragon ammo, aether runes, menaphite remedies

[wise spire]

allow me to give you an even bigger conundrum

why are there two separate drops for 1 and 2 platelegs?

[celest robin]

oh well you see that's easy

it's a time honored 2025 bossing tradition

[wise spire]

the 500 and 1000 souls are at least the same drop rate and prevent you from getting any of the ugly numbers inbetween

the 1 and 2 dlegs have nothing between and are different drop rates

[north axle]

where is this from?

[celest robin]

it's an interpretation of what folk in the wiki discord were saying

[wise spire]

micro was spitballing some stuff

[celest robin]

a combination of "I don't feel confident putting it in very rare or uncommon" and "rare means 1/100-1/1000"

vaguely "the data suggests it'd be surprising to be far outside this range"

[stuck cape]

wizzy, the issue is right now only claims are being logged

i believe they finished writing an update earlier that will log the loot from every wave, but until that goes out, they have no actual data to calculate drop rates

[coral basalt]

Either I'm going crazy or the 1st null rock just got hotfixed too?

[coral basalt]

false alarm, was going crazy

[orchid summit]

been suspiciously long since i've seen a drop

[weary garden]

I feel like im finally making progress on learning again lol. Got to orb phase on delve 8.
any tips on dealing with the double rock / moving orb?

[orchid summit]

pecanbread vid

[kind sandal]

Game is kind of unplayable during prime time US hours

what worlds are yall using? even the UK worlds feel laggy

Ever since the routing change or server move, w/e they did US E to UK has been awful

[vagrant trout]

428 been pretty good for me

i'm learning wish i had zcb

[mighty rain]

🙏 drop rates today please

[merry lotus]

i've been fine in 321

[dense ginkgo]

I have not

timed out multiple times yesterday

[merry lotus]

weird, no lag at all for me

[dense ginkgo]

usually it's fine but when it's not you're just dead

been PVMing on west coast servers

[deep oar]

east been shit for a long time

im a west truther

[vagrant trout]

[plucky turret]

they only removed the delay on purging staff

[night zephyr]

A bit disappointing how many fixes they missed

[plucky turret]

nvm

real blog is always in reddit comments

[proven owl]

okay so only buffs are coming?

some of those seem pretty big too like the shield orb clearing acid

might just be a logout for a week angle lol

[desert thorn]

ngl that to do list makes me want to just not do delve lol

[proven owl]

ye and free elite clues would be big

question is just wtf else do i do for a week hmm

[lone carbon]

all the wasted elites

[burnt lichen]

we also got this buff
https://runelite.net/plugin-hub/show/demonic-larva-tracker

there's an issue with bp tech tho i opened an issue on his repo

[lone carbon]

wonder what they mean by replacing triple grubs with 1 slow fat boi, still 1 hit killable?

[burnt lichen]

even if it requires 3 hits that would be easier

[lone carbon]

yeah for sure

[proven owl]

it would kinda ruin my w8 tech of killing 1 melee grub and then going back to place rock

i dont think u always have time to do 3 hits

i guess for the times u do have time it would more than make up for it

[sudden lotus]

vbow bounce tech better on single big grub or nah?

[night zephyr]

Has anyone tested if a half HP grub going in halves the effects (i.e., damage dealt to you/HP boss heals)?

[desert thorn]

im wondering what cas this boss is gonna have

kill moka with a demonbane weapon
complete wave 8
do a deep delve (8+)

[night zephyr]

If there's a perfect run through wave 8 thats gonna be very hard

[desert thorn]

probs gonna be never let moka melee you never get hit off prayer, dont get run over on car phase, never step on acid

i dont think dont let any grubs reach moka should be part of perfect task

[night zephyr]

That would be reasonable

[desert thorn]

dont get slammed

[night zephyr]

It would still be tough, but fair.

Not get hit by the main fallen debris, but allowing hits from the scattered rubble would also seem fair.

But a combination of never stepping on acid and not getting hit by any fallen debris from the rock attacks would be very hard

[craggy cobalt]

4th eye

Kinda cracked log I think

if you had to make me guess I'd say I'm about 60% on rate for boots, 3x spooned for eye, and double dry for cloth

[wise spire]

Some additional info from rach:

[kind sandal]

Reach?

[wise spire]

Fuck me I can't read

[stuck cape]

These changes feel so big , feels like waiting is the move

Has anyone tried cannoning

[nimble crest]

I thought they fixed that?

[stuck cape]

It’s on the list of stuff to fix next week

[nimble crest]

Cannoning is insane surely you’re just spawning acid doing it

[craggy cobalt]

-5 brews too

[stuck cape]

Well idk if you actually get dmg

Or if it’s just placing a cannon

I’ll try when I’m at pc later

[arctic niche]

boss feels so much better already with the mage autocast thing

[weary garden]

Sad we didn’t get rates

[glad osprey]

my buddy claimed rates appeared on the wiki for a moment and showed 1/500, 1/1000 and 1/1500 for cloth, eye and boots respectively, I'd assume these would be the starting rates at waves 2, 3 and 4

can't promise he isn't a dirty little liar though lol

or perhaps these were just random numbers and didn't mean anything really

[weary garden]

I looked at the history on the wiki and there’s a note that says “new content and main missing pieces is droprates. They have been vandalized a few times and have caused confusion in discord/reddit”

[plucky turret]

it was a random add by someone without an account and thre was some troll text with it, was immediately removed by wiki admin

[glad osprey]

ah that's what it is then

[weary garden]

I’m on the fence now if I should keep grinding since I spooned boots.
Are the cloth / eye useful anywhere?

[glad osprey]

do you have shadow?

[weary garden]

Not yet, but that’s what I’m grinding for next

[mighty rain]

Kinda glad they went and made demonbane 1t and are still gonna make eye of ayak one shot grubs

Good solve for all

[glad osprey]

yeah I just thought, it might not even be worth to go for it if shadow is not much longer of a grind

[arctic niche]

if u dont have shadow eye is pretty big cloth will be good either way

u might get eye while getting cloth to

[glad osprey]

personally I would stay for the cloth regardless, still good with both eye and shadow

[weary garden]

Yeah I think I’ll stay at least for cloth. Maybe come back for the eye with zcb/tbow if I don’t get it

[night zephyr]

Very keen to see rates/the backlog of changes next week

If we get everything on the list, gonna feel fantastic

[plucky turret]

just the mage delay removal is already a massive diff in how the boss feels

[dense ginkgo]

Spec regen will pause between floors but if you're not milking that then yeah

[north axle]

Cloth is useful everywhere

Wand is useful everywhere if no shadow

You'll want it for toa

[celest robin]

Presumably they're more common than boots too

[weary garden]

Where am I gonna use wand over bowfa? P3/4 warden?

[celest robin]

I think it wins at akkha?

[mighty rain]

Prob just p2 imo

Is the rune cost really worth .8 dps

[celest robin]

.8 is a p big number in this game

[weary garden]

Even then, it’s nice being able to drop mage gear for more supplies tbh

[past otter]

cost of eye is pretty free, 2 death and a chaos seems like an easy upkeep

[weary garden]

Also the tears seem easy to afk at work too

[stuck cape]

eye charges passively from killing the boss

even if u dont loot

[past otter]

alot of irons i know have a 500k death rune pile in their banks

so it seems like you could spam eye anywhere you want outside boss without worrying about charges or afking tears

[orchid summit]

i feel like everyone’s missing the “remove spec regen between delves” proposed update which would suck ass. zcb spec off the rip on 8+ is so nice to avoid the barrage of double boulders and melee shields

[craggy cobalt]

I've started preferring the first null slam tech, in which case you sometimes have to hold ZCB spec anyway

But it is definitely unfortunate

[proven owl]

if u've been waiting for spec after every wave then this is a huge buff for you ^^

that's a big time loss and you will get used to the boulders eventually anyway

[craggy cobalt]

Null slam potentially lets you also 3t tbow during car which is massive, although difficult to execute

[stuck cape]

i just get shield every time , is what it is

[glad osprey]

wdym by 3t tbow? and by null slam you mean the 1st racecar slam right?

[kind sandal]

BPing grub into tbow on boss is a 3t cycle for whatever reason

[glad osprey]

huh lol

only works for 1 attack though no?

or am I misunderstanding completely

[plucky turret]

you bp a mage or melee grub im assuming

[glad osprey]

ah okay

that's a funny interaction then lol

[night zephyr]

You can bp ranged too, but you just only get 2 3t tbows from them.

Honestly easier to do it on rangers since when you finish you don't have to worry about switching to actually kill the grub

[orchid summit]

boulders are fine, even b2b or b3b double boulders, but when it throws a melee shield in the mix and breaking melee shield isn’t 0t, it just feels bad

[proven owl]

i really like having some melee gear for that

[nimble crest]

Melee shield is fine you got like 4 ticks to equip a wep and click boss

[proven owl]

melee shield is extremely easy to solve w8 when the punish almost guarantees phase change

[nimble crest]

Can go very wrong tho…

If u had to be tile perfect for boulders it’d be dangerous af

But its just flick and hit boss/step out of melee range

[night zephyr]

The worst interaction is when my scobo noodles and my chally spec can't get me under 75% So I wait 7 ticks, fire another scobo shot only for it to swap to melee and fire 2 boulders right when my scobo shot registers.

[orchid summit]

yeah it’s annoying af when it does melee shield right after a tbow shot. easy to mitigate pre-8 by just clicking off boss to see if it’s melee shield or boulders

still should be a 0t attack imo

[proven owl]

do you stand close to the boss start of w8?

since i wait for rock to fall before running up ive never had an issue with attack cooldown messing me up

i could see the punish being difficult if i was trying to be tick perfect and not dropping rocks for the rock block but you have like 4-5 ticks to react and swap to scy if you're standing far away

[orchid summit]

yeah been standing with 1 tile gap that’s a good idea to stand farther away

tism brain, i spam click to that tile every wave lol

[craggy cobalt]

100 deep delve, 1200 total delves check in

[leaden vault]

thats where all the wands went

[celest robin]

[craggy cobalt]

oh no

[celest robin]

surely glov is most common right

it drops from the lowest wave it's gotta be

taking bets on whether I passively get 50k charges first or glov

[weary garden]

This scares me

[celest robin]

I'm like

increasingly confident I'm, if not extremely, at least slightly dry

[fast latch]

maybe u were right about getting enough tears after all

[celest robin]

just comparing to other logs that I've seen out of the context of rng flexing

and a few folk pushing end waves in the clan

[fast latch]

dear lord

[celest robin]

my gut says "any unique" is somewhere from 1/100 to 1/200 from waves 8+

[craggy cobalt]

you're an absolute gamer though, over 400 deep delves is crazy work for 1 week after release

[celest robin]

gamer degen

but ty lol

[craggy cobalt]

potato potato

[kind sandal]

1-7 spooning here

[fickle bobcat]

surely by now someone has aggregate data of the rarity of the uniques relative to each other right?

[arctic niche]

feel like these rates are ntb 1k delves is maybe like 30-40hours depending on gear

[craggy cobalt]

my gut says that 8+ delve rates aren't improved quite as much as they should be

[celest robin]

the ol' toa problem

[craggy cobalt]

but I worry about them making changes cause the changes they said they want to make to the boss make later delves a lot easier

[celest robin]

the other ol' toa problem

[coral basalt]

How many of those are wave 7 completions? What's the ratio looking like

[clear edge]

I think they probably have calculted it by using time to unique, comparing for example wave 1-7 resets to wave 8->, in which case it kinda makes sense that 8+ is not that much higher, since if you get more total floors per trip it should already be quite bit faster

[orchid summit]

why are we all missing cloth

[idle fog]

Cloth was my last item too

[celest robin]

throwing doubt on my "cloth is surely most common" angle

don't like that

[idle fog]

I was running on that assumption too since you have chances at it earlier than the other uniques

[craggy cobalt]

didn't they say cloth was most common somewhere

[coral basalt]

Cloth was my first item

Just missing Eye

Just doing 1-7 resets (mostly 1-6)

[kind sandal]

Not great

[coral basalt]

Alright pretty similar to mine then, I feel you haha

[idle fog]

You can make some insane profit according to the wiki. That's a large number!

[glad osprey]

this scares me what the actual hell

[wary oriole]

wait what range defense style does cannon rol againstt

ah it's heavy

[ivory ravine]

wave 1 i tanked a 60 from the charge cause my dude just stared at him and didnt attack. he went from sub 100 hp back to full health?

am i tripping

[royal whale]

charge heals him

[ivory ravine]

really?

guess i usually just die so i wouldnt know

[arctic niche]

just got my first delve 8 clear on the iron (scobo)

[north axle]

Wiki knows the exact rates they are just keeping it secret

[celest robin]

[nimble crest]

3 lvl 1 claims trust me

[north axle]

My guess is it scales from 1/1kish on 2 to 1/500 on 8, even weights for all items

[deft estuary]

is chally worth brinign with str swaps?

or just chally alone

later waves dont seem to hoave much melee punish phases

[night zephyr]

Really wish we could somehow see the data we are providing. Does feel bad that we have nothing.

[deft estuary]

and how about dwh?

[night zephyr]

What's the rest of your setup?

[deft estuary]

im brining dwh/dknives+buckler/scobow+void, chally

im thinking about swapping to chally+fero+rancor

boppers as my melee if no spec

[night zephyr]

I don't think dwh is worth with chally ,+ d knives

[deft estuary]

got it

[night zephyr]

Then you can bin boppers too

Should always have spec

[deft estuary]

how about larva?

[night zephyr]

Larva?

[deft estuary]

those melee larva

crawling in

grubs

[night zephyr]

Emberlight

But if you arent losing ticks using boppers correctly that's also fine

I think with scobo it's -1 tick every time though. Only tbowers can use boppers without losing ticks

[deft estuary]

ok i will bring ember

[celest robin]

IT'S OVER

[deft estuary]

gg!

[celest robin]

ending my delves right now to skew the wiki rates up

[deft estuary]

im only missing staff rn

thinking about what to do once i get it

[night zephyr]

I'm sending tob till scythe when I get all the drops

[weary garden]

I’ll be back to ToA until shadow after this

[buoyant sand]

Side grind corp for an arcane to go with it for style points of course 😏

[north axle]

No

No no no def reduction

Not worth it

[stuck cape]

wiki did leak that something like 5-10% of uniques are not instant claimed, which is part of why the data they have is useless

they can only see the claims and they have no idea when the loot was rolled

[night zephyr]

Anything would be better than nothing

if that's true we could still estimate rates

[nimble crest]

i wanna know whos not insta claiming

[toxic thunder]

is the eye better than bowfa at 400 warden?

[dense ginkgo]

depends on your setup

[toxic thunder]

does gearscape have the glove passive yet?

[night zephyr]

My guess would be a chunk of their 5-10% was from when the bug still existed.

[nimble crest]

what bug

[wise spire]

the plugin wasn't recording data at that time

I believe a solid chunk of that 5-10% is also double uniques

[night zephyr]

I thought there was a time period where the plugin was recording with invisible uniques, but with a warning message still.

[wise spire]

what do you mean with a warning message?

[signal cipher]

loot should’ve been hidden until you claim

[wise spire]

they generally start in the same manner that loot logger does, so the first few hours at least are always lost with these new loot systems

the data is essentially completely fucked regarding uniques though, hence why they're taking the time to build new code that can parse the actual item interface and record individual drops before claiming

[leaden vault]

does quick descending trigger a warning when you get a unique?

[wise spire]

yes

confirmed by wizzy too

[leaden vault]

sweeet

[nimble crest]

and when u die

that would be so brutal to play

bring real risk back to the game

[stuck cape]

Potentially all the non-claim data could be from before the warning was added, ppl just clicking to go deeper without opening loot

[keen rapids]

has anyone tried sgs spec for the shield punish yet?

i'm guessing it probably only heals based off the base hit

and isn't very good

[deep oar]

wish i could see this data

instead of hearing more excuses why its no good

[keen rapids]

im asking 😭 ill try it next trip

[deep oar]

i meant the drop rates sgs boy

im sure its ok on the earth spikes maybe

maybe worse than just using pipe idk

[keen rapids]

yea speccing trees is nice, kinda looking for something to spec in early waves when im full hp

[celest robin]

it wouldn't surprise me at all if an ironman spooned gloves and then didn't claim gloves going forward

and that sort of scenario isn't hugely unlikely considering the population

[night zephyr]

I've tried blowpipe speccing grubs and I think I figured it out. It's a bid odd.

I think you get a regular roll of 1-max hit if you spec a grub with 1 hp, but not if you spec a full hp grub.

Sometimes I get a 20 heal on a 1 hp grub and sometimes I heal 2 hp, so that makes me think that is whats going on.

[placid vortex]

do we know droprates yet?

[main briar]

No

[placid vortex]

ty

[deep oar]

thats awesome but im not asking for the drop rate

id like to see the data and be able to draw my own conclusions from it at this point

[wise spire]

you know that if they show people the data, it will immediately lead to biased and incorrect conclusions about the drop rate, right?

[deep oar]

ok

[wise spire]

or are you trying to say that you specifically should be given special permission?

[main briar]

There's already lots of stupid conclusions out there based on 0 data. how much stupider can it get?

[deep oar]

no im saying its my data and i consent to having it collected because I get something in return

[wise spire]

damn cook is right wow

[deep oar]

its incredibly weird to not make that info public

[keen rapids]

claim or keep pb going

[night zephyr]

If those dart tips weren't there I'd send. Holy garbage

[oblique agate]

I can also confirm a warning message pops up on quick descend. However, if you hit space it will accept and descend to the next level. I accidentally hit spacebar on a pair of treads but fortunately didn't die

[nimble crest]

ancient godsword is decent tech

[nimble crest]

id always keep sending on pb but that inv looking doomed

[keen rapids]

there will be better runs

[night zephyr]

Did you realize you sent with a unique on the line? Or find out after. I feel like my mental would have collapsed on a wave 5 if I knew treads were on the line.

[keen rapids]

i forgot to take sgs

[oblique agate]

I knew cause it flashed in chatbox for a tick or two before I hit space.. Fortuantely it was only wave 5 and I just safed up... so yeah don't spam space to start next waves if quick descending lol

[weary garden]

man its crazy how much easier this fight looks with zcb / tbow lmao

[craggy cobalt]

thank goodness for it too, been too long since tbow shined somewhere

[mighty rain]

one more good spot for tbow and we'll see another tbow nerf

[arctic niche]

its been good for colo nex toa etc idk ppl sleep to much on bow i feel like

[main briar]

got a kc lol https://i.imgur.com/aLVji5c.png

Then instantly died on 9

[weary garden]

Nice!

[craggy cobalt]

it's not really that good for Colo compared to scythe and terrible at ToA compared to shadow, I've unironically thought about dropping it and just piping in high invos. on its own I guess but compared to all the scy/shadow content that's been released it really doesn't shine that often

[arctic niche]

personally id never drop bow ever for toa it may not be bis but u always bringing it and i feel like its pretty impactful even if its not the star

[weary garden]

im feeling good about my attempts today, hoping for my first 8 clear lmao

[night zephyr]

Why do they have the sunkissed bones value so high

They are like equivalent to a dbone

[fickle bobcat]

theyre untradable i guess some jmod just pulled a number out of their ass

[keen rapids]

I was just curious about this too so I looked it up. It's worth about the prayer xp of a dbone at a gilded altar (so half a dbone at the wildy altar) and yet a dbone is worth about 2.2k. What the jagex doing

[craggy cobalt]

I've been wondering why sometimes the loot value seems high when it's all trash lol

[leaden vault]

they turn into shards so even worse than dbones lol

[night zephyr]

they are actually an easy convert to shards, so not that bad

quicker to use than dbones

[leaden vault]

cant use them on chaos altar though right?

[night zephyr]

you cannot

But they arent like bones that you have to enrich

you just 1t chisel into shards

so effective xp/hr of them is actually higher than chaos altar

[stuck cape]

I mean the thing you get in return is the drop rates, they literally designed a whole new tool to work for this boss to collect the data and they’re testing it now

[wispy knot]

Made it to and tried wave 7

That attack speed is fucking ridiculous

[stuck cape]

But the mission of the project is to collect data to update the wiki, that’s what we are consenting to

[wispy knot]

need like a sharingan or some shit

like it almost feels unfair with how much is going on

[deep oar]

ok but we dont have the rates

I dont see why its such a big deal to want to see the raw data being publically crowdsourced

the idea that only wiki admins have the capacity to parse this information and everyone else is too stupid to do so and will make incorrect assumptions or get uppity is asinine

[dense ginkgo]

I think even if 99% of people draw the wrong conclusions that's their mistake to make

the first time everyone is wrong about drop rates they'll go "oh don't listen to random redditors about what the drop info means" and learn

[night zephyr]

If they care so much about incorrect edits as a result of the data being public. Couldn't they lock down that section of the wiki to people with X amount of contributions?

[tribal igloo]

It still spreads on discord, reddit, twitter, etc. if people draw false conclusion and say it came from wiki data

[dense ginkgo]

you can release aggregated data for point #2

[deep oar]

1 "problem" he repeated 3 times

[dense ginkgo]

first and third weren't issues in other games afaik

[night zephyr]

People are already spreading false conclusions.

[deep oar]

the only financial incentive i see is for wiki admins to keep it to themselves to merch with

[tribal igloo]

The data is so bad you literally can't get good drop rates from it. There is progress to improve it though

[deep oar]

really wish i could see this bad data

[dense ginkgo]

even just like... the ratio between the three uniques people are getting would be nice

[winter garden]

there's only like 3 ppl that could actually understand the data, its that complex

[leaden vault]

woox, mod ash, zezima

[wise spire]

also query requests cost $$$

[deep oar]

hosts his dick in your mouth for free though

[twilit matrix]

Just opt out vro and wait for rates from jagex

[night zephyr]

Too risky to the greater financial economy.

[craggy cobalt]

just click boss

[night zephyr]

It's past click boss time. Too many people on. It's prime time for complaining.

[kind sandal]

VPNing to UK servers working out very well

[craggy cobalt]

how does a vpn help? I know nothing about networks

[kind sandal]

When they did the big server maintanence a month or so ago they fucked the routing or something from US to UK

using a VPN bypasses that issue

If I would try to play on UK servers without a vpn there's horrible lag

[craggy cobalt]

huh, the more you know

I tried a UK world the other day and it was indeed terrible

[limber finch]

What other games, out of curiosity?

[dense ginkgo]

WOW (classic and modern), Wildstar come to mind

[limber finch]

Idk much about those, do they have third-party clients?

[dense ginkgo]

They have third party add-ons to crowd source data

[limber finch]

Gotcha

[weary garden]

delve 8 is just a brick wall to me lmao. im consistently making it there and consistently dying to double boulders immediately :(

[dense ginkgo]

had to go so very late follow-up, most of the gear in them is untradeable, but there are some situations where fake data could work out for you like mount boosters sending fake Vyragosa kills to make TLPD kills rarer by comparison, fake mythic trash farm data with barely any BOEs, etc; a bigger difference is that there's more incentive to make massive amounts of gp in OSRS imo since you can buy almost all BIS gear with it instead of just hoarding/rwt

WOW it's usually only a few pieces of BIS then the rest of it is for buying carries or cosmetics (which not everyone even does)

[winter garden]

https://www.twitch.tv/acoldone/clip/GracefulTriumphantAyeayeTTours-Zv9pY4lqPOu-vXyQ

This helped me so much

[limber finch]

Interesting, ty for the context

[winter garden]

can just go on the first boulders debris and the 2nd boulder won’t drop any debris there

So u can focus on prayers and u have plenty of time even if u proc shield phase prior

[limber finch]

I do think data manipulation for financial gain isn’t a completely made-up concern for OSRS. Would it be as big of an issue as Cook thinks and therefore enough justification to withhold data? No idea. But it would be naive to assume there aren’t bad actors in a player base this large (where the vast majority uses RL and has the drop log plugin enabled) and with as much RWT as there is

[keen rapids]

can confirm sgs is ass

it didn't even max on the trees

[wise spire]

it seems to me like the biggest problem isn't so much whether bad actors actually do anything, but the fact that you can't prove they haven't done anything if the data is public

the very moment you have that possibility of contamination, the entire data set is faulty

at least that's my personal take

[limber finch]

People could be sending fake data now tbf

[dense ginkgo]

so are the wiki rates for everything else faulty lol

[north axle]

There's only two or three people who are qualified to calc delve droprates

[limber finch]

It just makes it a little easier if those people can see the raw data to tell if it’s working

[wise spire]

fair, but the current implementation is the best you're ever going to get for a crowdsourced system, and I don't think anyone would consider any of it to be faked

[north axle]

So orion do you think the droprates will ever be released

or will wiki just wait for the jagex rate

and then never verify if it's correct ( jagex rates have been wrong before)

[onyx raven]

anyone else an ethical delver who doesnt claim uniques until wave 8

[wise spire]

I mean people are already tinfoil hatting and throwing conspiracy theories that cook is RWTing with clans or some bullshit, if there was evidence that data got fucked with it would just ruin the project from there on out

[north axle]

if he was then wiki wouldnt have such financial issues

[wise spire]

[limber finch]

I don’t have much insight but my guess would be they would if they feel confident about it after the changes they made to the data collection (if only just to shut people up for a few extra days)

[wise spire]

idk if they'll have it all done by next week

[limber finch]

Personally I don’t really care given that it’s only a week out from the real rates

But I’m also out of town the next week so I don’t have a stake in it

[deep oar]

its tinfoil hat to suggest wiki admins could profit from hiding the data but its also a valid excuse for wiki admins to suggest that unnamed entities could corrupt the data for profit if it were public

[dense ginkgo]

I don't think the wiki team is hiding it for any malicious reason, but I still think it should be released in some way shape or form

[limber finch]

One is a person with a lot of visibility and a lot to lose (namely, the entire credibility of the wiki and its relationships with jagex) if caught. The other is any number of people who would only stand to gain from manipulation. Which do you think is more likely?

[dense ginkgo]

why do we think people are more likely to manipulate 2k volume 100m items than raid drops

[dense ginkgo]

why would they ever release drop rates then

[deep oar]

i think both are a reach and its just a lame excuse

[limber finch]

Wdym

[dense ginkgo]

how is this any different from releasing Yama drop rates for example

[limber finch]

I’m confused what that has to do with my last comment

[dense ginkgo]

everything in your last comment applies to releasing the drop rates for every boss

doesn't the wiki team have a lot of visibility and a lot to lose (namely, the entire credibility of the wiki and its relationships with jagex) if caught with wrong droprates for Yama

[limber finch]

My comment was about the speculations about admins selling info to clans etc.

[dense ginkgo]

ah, got it

[tribal igloo]

I've made changes to the advanced crowdsourcing plugin that should give the wiki better data. But the problem is the two people who have access to the crowdsource data are both on vacation. The database hasn't been updated to accept the mokha data. The install base of OSRS Wiki Crowdsourcing from the hub is much lower than Loot Tracker. Jagex is providing the rates in a week.

[dense ginkgo]

also just to be clear I don't think the wiki team are bad people or ruining the game or anything, I just disagree with the stance in Cook's screenshot

[night zephyr]

I'm gonna keep planking wave 8 and not claiming anything as protest. Totally not because of skill issue.

[north axle]

I am so confused

[limber finch]

Yeah I’m not 100% convinced of the bad actors/manipulation argument, but I think when combined with the issue of hosting/serving data from a 30 TB database, I can see why they’ve been so reluctant

[tribal igloo]

Confused by what? Happy to answer questions

[north axle]

cook has the data but won't release it and also he doesn't have the data because the two people who have it are on vacaiton

[dense ginkgo]

you don't pull from the 30 TB database every time someone loads the webpage, you display a snapshot of aggregated data

[north axle]

somebody has access to 100000 claims of each floor and can say the unique % shown by floor

presumably

[limber finch]

Oh you’re saying to display the data on the wiki page or something like that rather than provide access for people to send requests for data on-demand?

[tribal igloo]

Cook has data from runelite loot tracker which is bad due to only showing completion loot.
There is a code change to OSRS Wiki Crowdsourcing which would give loot data from every delve level which makes determining the drop rates much better.
But getting this tested and merged is hard due to Cook and Micro both being on vacation and having delays being able to check things over

[dense ginkgo]

cook doesn't have the data from non-claims, and won't release any data from the claims

[dense ginkgo]

yes

a protected table of "we don't know the droprates yet but here's the ratio the uniques are appearing at on each floor"

[tribal igloo]

10-15% of claims with uniques have multiple uniques. Which means people aren't always claiming it when they first get a unqiue. So you can't just determine accurate drop rates based on claims

[north axle]

that's my problem ig

[night zephyr]

It went up to 15%??? What the heck are people doing.

[deep oar]

do you have a source for this?

[limber finch]

Gotcha, I thought you were arguing for all of the crowdsourced raw data to be publicly available

[deep oar]

i would love to look at it!

[north axle]

i think the data might be fucky ngl

Imo it's far more likely that you are making some sort of data analysis or plugin mistake than 15% of items aren't being complainrd

[dense ginkgo]

or there are people already manipulating it

[tribal igloo]

Cook said it in the wiki discord, I can try to find a screenshot

[dense ginkgo]

15% sounds crazy

[north axle]

survey says

[night zephyr]

The only people I see not claiming are record pushers getting an eye or gloves on like a 20+ attempt.

[dense ginkgo]

just to make sure we're all on the same page, teleports and tears aren't uniques right

[tribal igloo]

Oh I misremembered, it was 5-10% not 10-15%

[craggy cobalt]

I did exactly one wave with an eye in the loot chest just to see if there was a descend warning

[limber finch]

Was this all from before or after they fixed the bug where uniques weren’t showing up or alerting the player?

[verbal edge]

irons continuing the run if its a dupe doesnt seem that far fetched

[weary garden]

FINALLY

[main briar]

I mean also yes

[north axle]

I genuinely do not believe this and would rather see the actual raw uniques shown per floor

[tribal igloo]

Presuembly from the day loot tracker started tracking loot

[dense ginkgo]

5-10% not claiming is very different from 5-10% (or 10-15% lol) getting multiple uniques before retiring

[north axle]

(yes I see the irony in asking for rates but not believing cook's data science)

[dense ginkgo]

I could see 5-10%

[north axle]

I could see 0-1%

[dense ginkgo]

I would bet on 0-1% but I could see 5-10% in the same way I could see someone getting the 2k tob cape before a scythe

[north axle]

I've seen a lot of unique screenshots i have not seen a single double unique screenshot

[tribal igloo]

There's even the guy on reddit who got 2 pets in one run. I can totally understand people not claiming every unique

[north axle]

he's counting pets?

[dense ginkgo]

check quote again

[night zephyr]

If that 5-10 includes pets that's more believable

[dense ginkgo]

5-10% not claiming, not 5-10% getting a second unique

[north axle]

i don't see how he could have gotten any of that from anonymized one off drop logs

without seeing double uniques

[dense ginkgo]

hmm, is the loot sorted by recency

[tribal igloo]

Like in each loot tracker record? No

[dense ginkgo]

if it is actually 5-10% double uniques then yeah no lol

[north axle]

pets should be entirely disregarded for double unique consideration

[limber finch]

Is the argument about hosting/serving costs making it infeasible bogus in your opinion? Honest question bc I have no knowledge of what it would actually cost, only that I’ve seen multiple people say it would be expensive and no one say otherwise

[tribal igloo]

@Subscribe
public void onScriptPreFired(ScriptPreFired event)
{
    if (event.getScriptId() == ScriptID.DOM_LOOT_CLAIM)
    {
        // this is called after the loot has been claimed
        ItemContainer inv = client.getItemContainer(InventoryID.DOM_LOOTPILE);

        final Collection<ItemStack> items = Arrays.stream(inv.getItems())
            .filter(item -> item.getId() > -1)
            .map(item -> new ItemStack(item.getId(), item.getQuantity()))
            .collect(Collectors.toList());

        String title = client.getWidget(InterfaceID.DomEndLevelUi.FRAME).getChild(1).getText(); // Level 2 Complete!
        int level = Integer.parseInt(title.split(" ")[1]);

        addLoot(DOM, -1, LootRecordType.EVENT, level, items);
    }
}

The runelite collector doesn't guarantee the order of loot tracker is the same as the order you were offered the loot

[north axle]

so does he get the 'not claimed' from seeing double drops then?

or something else

if he cant rely on the unique not being in last slot

[tribal igloo]

Queries (on-demand)

$6.25 / 1 tebibyte, per 1 month / account

Loot tracker is up to 30TB. So you either have to pay the query cost of $6.25 / 1 tebibyte for queries. Or find some way to distribute 30TB of data. (Assuming the wiki did want to provide raw data)

[dense ginkgo]

what if there's a mechanic where if you don't claim a unique, your unique rate skyrockets for the rest of the run

[deep oar]

ngl thatd be kinda cool

[limber finch]

Damn that would be sick

[keen rapids]

who wants to test it

[limber finch]

Whoever gets a dupe cloth next

[night zephyr]

@craggy cobalt on the 5th eye please

[orchid summit]

anyone else in the "rates were nerfed monday" conspiracy camp

[celest robin]

well tbf they were my 3rd and 4th lmao, no real reason to claim

[orchid summit]

nvm

[wise spire]

for reference on the "double unique" thing:

that's all I could find from cook mentioning it

[leaden vault]

max cash speedrun

[onyx raven]

gonna need blizz to elaborate on how this singular tile in the entire row is vulnerable

[dense ginkgo]

Wait can you use an LOS plugin to predict what tiles will be safe

I guess probably not since you can fire over the rocks no matter what right

[verbal edge]

if you're behind a rock that's parallel with the boss (like both of those rocks are) then stand on the tile directly behind the rock

if you're behind a rock thats sort of diagonal from the boss (like in the image above, if the rock was in the bottom right of the screen), then stand next to the rock diagonal from it

those rules of thumb always work for me

basically just always be right next to the rock, and have the rock be between you and the boss

which isnt the case in that screenshot

[elfin flax]

whenever im in doubt

of if its diagonal or directly behind the rock to be safe