Hello, I recently passed 1500 kc without seed, I am looking for some other way to progress with pvm. Is there a way to do GWD/cox without bowfa? What raids should I start with? I have around 70 TOA kcs with crystal bow, I am able to do 250s without problems. I got fang and all zulrah uniques, 95 slayer.
#PVM progression without bowfa
obtuse seal
sick cargo
let me be blunt: you cant really pvm without a bowfa
of course literally speaking you can do as you please, its an open world game
but the progression will be much more difficult and slower
also you wont have access to a lot of the resources and methods that people recommend
if you really want to go no-bowfa I'd recommend sending rcb toa runs to shadow, and then taking it from there
300rl+, having kc at 250 is a really good start and I'd try to increase that level
obtuse seal
I did few 300s already, but i was failing from time to time
sick cargo
oh with fang + rcb you can and should be aiming for 350-400s imo
obtuse seal
i stopped raiding and kept running cgs
glossy cobalt
Yeah bum rush a shadow and shadow everything you'd otherwise bowfa
obtuse seal
so full crystal with cbow is not better than rcb?
glossy cobalt
Pretty sure ruby bolt spec go brr
sick cargo
if you want to go without the bowfa and without the shadow you are either committing to the msb (or similar weapons, e.g. karils xbow or the soon to be released varlamore ranged weapons) or a blowpipe (higher dps but the upkeep means its slower all things considered)
glossy cobalt
Cbow might be better on specific things
sick cargo
so full crystal with cbow is not better than rcb?
oh you have full crystal, mb. Id definitely get a bowfa then
I would strongly recommend against doing cg for full crystal and then leaving
glossy cobalt
Full crystal doesn't really change the specifics on bowfa
obtuse seal
yea i have around 30 spare armour seeds
sick cargo
you're very close to unlocking one of the most powerful weapons in the game for a long time, why stop now
glossy cobalt
You get full crystal going to rate for a bowfa
He's exactly as close as when he started cg 😛
sick cargo
median yes, but theres a very solid chance you do not
nah thats false
they're noticeably closer, not just the droprate but also the learning curve
obtuse seal
probabilty calc says im 97,6 chance to get it at this point
sick cargo
no I think the chance you dont have one is more like 99%
obtuse seal
yea ik
sick cargo
unless you made this story up
glossy cobalt
Anyway, send toa but do so in the expectation that you might decide to finish bowfa anyway rather than hard camping to shadow
sick cargo
anyway imo your main options for progression are
obtuse seal
sick cargo
- stay at cg for the bowfa
- if you really dont want to, rcb toa for a shadow
- if you really dont want to do either option, msb(i) + fang cox or something though I dont really know how that immediately progresses your account
im sorry to see that you are going very dry, but it doesnt change what your best options are
obtuse seal
i know i know thats why i was forcing myself to do 5-10 runs per day if i had more time
I guess i will keep grinding till 1600 and then move to TOA for a bit, thanks for your tips
btw cox without dhl is not a good idea?
glossy cobalt
Cox without DHL is fine
Cox without a ranged weapon can entirely fuck off
You're going to have no fun whatsoever trying to msb vasa to death
obtuse seal
alright, back to CG then 😄
glossy cobalt
I guess you can do pain fiesta zulrah and pipe it all
obtuse seal
I made a mistake and did full hydra task with blowpipe
darts are dropping real quick
im mining amethyst during work on 2nd pc but its so slow
glossy cobalt
Yeah scales are also annoyingly limiting
obtuse seal
i have like 100k right now, but i guess they will be dropping fast when i start focusing on raids
viral halo
items dont become less worth getting because you went dry
unlucky but your best bet is the same as it was at 0 kc
like was said the only way you can feasibly "skip" bowfa is get a shadow
but you're then going for an even more rare item, at maybe half the speed you normally would be
sick cargo
i have like 100k right now, but i guess they will be dropping fast when i start ...
fwiw 100k scales is a very nice stack
viral halo
yeah, your kc changes nothing
sick cargo
though thats mostly because these days bp doesnt see that much use as we have better alternatives
if you start camping that as your primary ranged weapon itll deplete pretty quickly yeah
sick cargo
yeah post tbow it makes a comeback
storm widget
There's also some niche stuff like shadow masori DHCB pipe in CoX
Which is basically just "shadow every room and pipe like one room"
And that's worth since the Masori elevates the DHCB over bowfa by 13-15% for head phase
You barely range anyway with shadow
vagrant jay
I made a mistake and did full hydra task with blowpipe
Fang hydra is better anyways so just use that
copper valley
gzzzzzzzzzzz
spare citrus
huge gz
spare citrus
And just yesterday you were considering giving up 😄
obtuse seal
yea exactly, who knew i was so close
obtuse seal
im already going for toa 😄
i want to do elite CAs first before i move on with slayer/other grinds since im missign 150 points
spare citrus
Yeah you'll smash through them now with your shiny new bow
pearl flicker
Insanely deserved bowfa gz
limpid hull
"im sorry to see that you are going very dry, but it doesnt change what your best options are" great game design
viral halo
thats just the nature of rng
agile bone
Lol then don't play a game mode that self restricts you
elder dove
I’m in the same grind but not nearly as dry, gz brother
limpid hull
Do you really think the design is good, when the game is pretty much locked behind that singular drop? Did this guy here deserve to spend way over 200h in cg?
Just asking if you really think its a great design 😂
glossy cobalt
Eh
glossy cobalt
The game really is not locked behind that drop
It's the most convenient thing to do, other options exist
marsh crag
^ bofa is still a kinda new item technically speaking. you can do the game without, just go get tbow
limpid hull
no, bowfa is terrible design
Exactly my point, want to bring it up in these cases 👍🏻
Gz on drop tho!
old mural
im a bowfa shill, great design
lets good players skip the trash parts of pvm as an iron ^^
even lets mains skip the bad parts of pvm by being a decent money maker with 0 gear
glossy cobalt
Bowfa achieved its goal of being a compelling blowpipe replacement that isn't endgame bis
It was arguably a bit silly pre shadow but shadow exists now so
old mural
ye i think bruh had a good argument pre toa
limpid hull
Still the design is bad. Sure its great for people who get the drop. I always see two kinds of ppl defending i with these "rng is rng" arguments: a) you spooned it b) you went extremely dry and want others to suffer as well
old mural
but now i think its mostly ppl who aren't good enough to do it that suffer
i mean bro ur gonna have to grind out items all the time as an iron
sick cargo
Still the design is bad. Sure its great for people who get the drop. I always se...
you can't just invalidate people's thoughts if they a) went under rate or b) went over rate
thats all people
back in the day noobs whined a lot about dragon warhammer, in a big part because that was the first significant grind for a unique that people encountered. A lot of players with a similar attitude now get stuck at CG, so you get a lot of uninformed CG whining. Personally I think bowfa is a poor design and there's serious issues with CG as is, but the fact that people are upset about the red prison has little to no relevance to that imo
glossy cobalt
Still the design is bad. Sure its great for people who get the drop. I always se...
Bowfa isn't really unique in this regard
sick cargo
most people upset with CG would just be upset with the next thing in the progression if they got through quickly instead
glossy cobalt
There are lots of items you can go dry on and get stuck on
limpid hull
i mean bro ur gonna have to grind out items all the time as an iron
Ofc, but cg defines a whole phase of the game as a iron, where you are kinda just waiting for the drop and nothing else PVM content dowsn't make any sense
sick cargo
what are you talking about, there's almost no PVM content before CG
glossy cobalt
And it ain't close
sick cargo
if anything its the opposite, thanks to CG a lot of low level irons can pvm at all
try to skip it? back to the slow old days you go
glossy cobalt
Bowfa is a very generous grind length for how powerful it is
sick cargo
bowfa is way way too easy to get
glossy cobalt
try to skip it? back to the slow old days you go
I think this take is way off considering that you can feasibly grind shadow with an rcb and a bad attitude
I don't think shadowing the whole game to death is "the slow old days"
sick cargo
'feasibly' is still hundreds of hours
glossy cobalt
Yeah but shadow is hundreds of hours anyway
sick cargo
the difference between a good setup and an rcb setup is still hundreds of hours
and shadow is ass before occult
limpid hull
In this case cg was hundreds of hours as well
glossy cobalt
You can't budget PvM as if it's gonna take how long it actually takes
Bowfa is 60 expected hours
Yeah maybe you go dry
That's life
agile bone
lol us irons are lucky AF for the bowfa. you literally need 0 gear for it and can get it with mediocre stats.
sick cargo
In this case cg was hundreds of hours as well
different number of hundreds
glossy cobalt
the difference between a good setup and an rcb setup is still hundreds of hours
I don't think it's multiple hundreds of hours
limpid hull
Bowfa is 60 expected hours
This is the wors argument imo, look at this guy here
glossy cobalt
It's not an argument
It's a fact
The expected number of hours to get a bowfa is 60
It's not more and it's not less
agile bone
antimedic is 5-100 at cg, now hes malding
limpid hull
Im 814kc atm
split kraken
GG
limpid hull
Meldong for sure
old mural
i dont think ironman mode is for you if the thought of going 3-4x dry on an item is this bad for you ^^
sick cargo
I think its time to get this thread back onto topic. If people want to discuss possible progression routes please discuss that
old mural
its gonna happen for sure
sick cargo
if people want to whine about cg move to the reddit
its like australia, we put the offenders there
glossy cobalt
But I shit you not if you hate CG that much just go pot ToA without it
agile bone
@limpid hull just get the drop bro
glossy cobalt
It's not sensitive but you're not really outlining a problem
agile bone
its your nephew takes that are riling the people up. still love you tho
glossy cobalt
Nothing is stopping you sending ToA with this inventory if you want to
agile bone
bare minimum gear, dont even try toa without it
viral halo
Do you really think the design is good, when the game is pretty much locked behi...
Nothing is locked behind it
Cg is meant to be endgame content, jagex fucked up by allowing players to reliably do the content as early as we can
If cox required no items and basically just a range level, you would probably go for cox uniques much earlier too
Regardless i don't agree with a drop being good and rare being inherently bad in some way
That is the majority of ironman pvm so doesn't make much sense to play ironman with that mindset
storm widget
if anything its the opposite, thanks to CG a lot of low level irons can pvm at a...
Yeah this is a big point Antimedic
Before bowfa the meta was use MSB(i) until 93 Slayer
And then get occult, blowpipe, magic fang, etc. and finally do Barrows to get tank gear
And THEN you could finally go do melee GWD with your Karils and Torags/Dharoks
...with mid-90s melees
And ofc you'd have 99 Ranged/Magic by then so you could go pot CoX until Rigour
etc. etc.
But it was basically hold everything off until 93 Slayer from 2015-2021
Now it's... idk go get bowfa at 73 Slayer go send ToA for fang and basically do lance Slayer for 90% of your grind instead of only 10% of your grind to 99
So bowfa changed so much because you can do it as your first PVM now and thereby unlock basically a ton of PVM that was pushed wayyyyy off back in the day
storm widget
Cg is meant to be endgame content, jagex fucked up by allowing players to reliab...
Honestly the big fuckup was not letting magic staff scale
If it did properly, people wouldn't be able to do CG so early because their DPS would be horseshit on all styles cuz they refuse to chin and alch for some reason
And then only ppl like Drogon who chinned mid-90s ranged and alched 60k items for 91 Ranged while doing 99 Agility will have a huge advantage at being able to do CG early. Rest of ppl would grumble about "being forced to to do Slayer for stats before they could finally unlock CG"
If staff inside CG was hitting 41s at 99 and only 29s at 78-82 Magic it would be much better
vagrant jay
Nothing is stopping you sending ToA with this inventory if you want to
rcb infernal cape 
storm widget
Technically meta to prob get infernal cape right after fire cape I bet
But I'm not good enough to do that so I didn't recommend it
Slotted it after Rigour and Augury in the OG chart
vagrant jay
ngl eagle eye is hard
think the hardest part is noodling at zuk
rigour just made zuk so much more free
storm widget
Yea before Zuk it doesn't really matter
There's an argument to be made for triples I guess
But I think if you solve properly with off-ticks there's never a DPS race
So waves end up being similar, albeit slower
But at Zuk it prob gets really annoying with sets
old mural
And then only ppl like Drogon who chinned mid-90s ranged and alched 60k items fo...
i mean i think ppl like me who didnt do anywhere near as much alching would still be able to go for cg with just chins, nmz melees and 85ish magic
but i agree it should prob be that way although i think its prob not good for the game
glossy cobalt
End of the day you can force magic up really fast if you have to
old mural
i think its prob in jagex's best interest to let all the cg whiners just get a bow and move on with their lives lol
glossy cobalt
Just afk ice burst maniacals
storm widget
prob can do it anyway if you are ok at pvm
old mural
rather than quit the game at cg
storm widget
jagex played it smart
bring in bowfa at parity
then increase the gap between it and tbow like crazy over next 2.5 years
vambs, masori, quiver, etc.
old mural
ye i think its in a great spot cuz of all that
storm widget
yup now bowfa is a cute jack of all trades but it's not gonna hold a candle to the top end for sure
which is fine
good way to do it
that era when bowfa competed with tbow for top dps at gwd was wild lol
like when crystal was basically bis because barely worse than arma but insane prayer bonus
storm widget
Well only on Bandos
It was never nerfed on Zilyana or Kree'arra
Or even K'ril
IIRC it beat bowfa nicely on K'ril
Beat bowfa by a little on Zilyana
And competed very close to 1:1 on Kree'arra
(in some setups bowfa even won on Kree IIRC)
Ofc that changed instantly with vambs and masori and ofc shadow
honest thistle
bowfa is bis on zammy til u have pretty juiced gear
sturdy folio
jesus christ this is rough to look at
sturdy folio
oh wow gz LOL