Hey guys, been grinding Bandos, finally got my hilt at like 845kc. Time for me to grind TOA for fang, was wondering if there is a guide or spreadsheet that specifies how to use specs and when with the BGS.
Anyone have any resources for that?
#BGS Guide to Toa
fierce mica
modest crane
You basically bgs everything except akkha
Max defense reduction is pinned in the ToA channel
fierce mica
^ perfect thank you ill give it a read
wind rune
so just to clarify:
spec kephri, and a second time if you miss (or just use both always)
spec zebak twice (cant really hurt)
spec ba-ba, and a second time if you miss
depending on your setup you likely want to spec wardens p1 (obelisk) once or twice
speccing wardens p3 is the most valuable spec in the raid
dont bgs akkha, dont bgs wardens p2, and speccing during wardens p4 is much more optional than most people seem to think
modest crane
If you go power -> life, you can use adrenaline at akkha enrage which will last to the start of zebak, lets you get up to 4 specs there if necessary
wind rune
depends on the order you use at any rate
fierce mica
Literally the perfect answer once again. Thank you it was exactly what I was looking for.
opaque vector
Could you elaborate on why p3 is the most important spec? You shouldn’t be taking any damage, is it just the biggest time save?
lethal nimbus
Yes, plus you can lower defence by 30 whereas demibosses are capped to 20
modest crane
Longest phase, lots of defense reduction
wind rune
Its the biggest time save per spec bar in the entire raid because the boss has by far the most hp
the full time save, i.e. ttk reduction, math is very complicated as you have to include the chance to miss and the fact that the spec takes time
but it's true
there's a few more surprising ones, like p4 specs hardly mattering and bgs being good at kephri. I think this is not common knowledge
modest crane
I realized I was missing a lot of ticks and/or taking damage trying to bgs p4. Been way more comfy after giving up on that
wind rune
Yeah you need to be pretty clean for it to save time at all. For example, if you're using a bowfa at 300rl, each bgs spec on p4 saves 2.06 seconds on average
thats with a full melee/range gear swap
normal pine
pretty strongly disagree on p4 spec "not mattering," like at 300 sure it's more whatever but 400 should be the main reference point, and comparing ttk between no reduction vs. full reduction it's like a 17s time save with bowfa
wind rune
(It's not)
normal pine
let me finish before you interrupt
that's not factoring in the bgs damage since we can assume you'd be able to hit about that amount with bowfa in that same amount of time
and it's assuming no tick loss, if you're losing ticks then it's a lot worse, but with practice you should not be
it's also assuming you're using your adren for this purpose, which is one of the better uses for it assuming no vw/zcb
meaning that the chance you hit 60 in 4 specs is extremely likely
and the main thing is actually not the expected ttk reduction but the variance reduction
it makes the kill easier if you do hit, and this is at the very end of the raid
if it even saves you 10 seconds of last rowing that can make the difference between a mistake that kills you and finishing the raid
that being said, at 300 level or below, sure, probably don't bother with it
if you want to add in the math of the fact that bgs can miss so you're losing ticks etc., also sure, that will probably lower the average ttk from 17s a bit, but the fact you're also doing damage with the spec offsets that somewhat
but this isn't really speaking from a theoretical standpoint, more from experience of having miserable p4s when bgs misses
so for me it's more about lowering the risk you have a miserable p4 where the chance to die is a lot higher
wind rune
Yeah the accuracy and time to send 4 bgs specs (14.4s) dominate the time saved, those are the primary contributors to the time save calc
Any estimate that disregards those is close to worthless
normal pine
sure, but the expected damage from 14.4 secs of bgs specs is not zero
it's very accurate even at 400, i usually get the full reduction within 2-3 hits
wind rune
Yes that's the math I did for every boss, at 400rl and 300rl
Accuracy and hits and ttk before and after and comparing them and converting that to time saved per spec bar
Including damage dealt
normal pine
ok, i'll trust your calc, though even 2s average at 300 is not nothing, since for me it's more about the variance reduction
if there were massively better places to use the adren prior to vw/zcb i'd be more inclined to say yeah don't bgs, but even if you have those you might wanna dump those at p4 as well
wind rune
Im not sure the variance goes down. If you miss that's 3.6s added to your back row
normal pine
with your adren
wind rune
Either way it's one of the least important places to spec in the raid by my math. I'm happy you like it but would recommend people do the opposite
normal pine
i mean it should be fairly obvious that it's not "important" from a pure ttk standpoint, it's hard to estimate how much likelier you are to die at p4 if your bgs misses vs. doesn't miss
it's just that there aren't many "good" places to use the adren regardless
prior to vw/zcb
like the real question is where you'd advise the second dose of adren should be used, assuming the first is also elsewhere during wardens
for like p3 specs or something, or 2-down
i wouldn't be against an argument to use it at zebak, but bgs is also very accurate within 2 hits there
also, not sure exactly how you did your calc, but if you calced it assuming you would bgs 4x, that's not the most accurate assumption, in fact exactly what happens is a bit difficult to model with pure math i think
if your first bgs hits like a 40 (not that unlikely, calc shows 65% chance for spec to land, rolling up to 72 in this setup), this is already good enough and you can stop there, or send one more if you want, but in any event you're not sending 2 after that
corrected the number it was wrong
if that 40 lands, your next bgs has a 72% chance to land, etc.
also even if your bgs misses 4x, saying you wasted 14.4s is also not accurate, your bow can miss too
(deleted this part, bow dps is higher than that)
anyway i've said enough i think, we'll agree to disagree but i'll leave the info up for people who want to consider for themselves what they want to do
hang on i'm spreading misinformation rn cause i had a wrong input in the calc
gonna redo it then make an edit
normal pine
alright, last message here, im getting a ~10s time save bgsing 4x on p4 at 400 rl using some simplifications that people are free to argue about whether they're accurate or not
melee setup is typical iron setup, bandos, faceguard, fire cape, tort, prims, b gloves, no ring, max stats
ranged setup is also typical iron setup, full crystal, bowfa, anguish, assembler, b gloves, max stats
assuming warden hp is 540, bowing it with no def reduction takes ~83.5s
alternatively, let's say you spend 14.4s bgsing it 4x. the simplifcation i used is to just take spec dps * 3.6, which increases with each successive hit (inaccurate because you could hit 0 first try, but also inaccurate because you could hit 60 first try, so i just used this simplification)
then over the course of 14.4s your expected dmg is ~103 and you're expected to have the full reduction (in reality, won't always happen, but pretty likely)
subtract this from 540 and the ttk with bow is now 58.7s, so adding 58.7 and 14.4 gives 73.1, ~10s time save over no reduction
same idea for 300s yields ~6.7s time save
to make this more accurate and make bgs less appealing you'd need to include the odds that you don't get the full def reduction, but i'm not really sure how to do that
young vortex
For p4, while BGS specs aren't that great, DPS specs are pretty good
For example if you can drop 4 Voidwakers with adrenaline, that's super nice
Because if you're salted (assuming max stats, but it will probably have ticked down if you're doing NHN), you'll be knocking off 200-210 HP on average
It usually has like ~570 HP on enrage in a 400 so that helps a good bit