manga-theories

[sand sail]

They can become as hard as black blades, for sure

No, not really lol

Black blades are black in a way that everyone can see. When armament is imbued in a blade, it's still invisible

That's the difference, actually becoming a black blade isn't the same as making something as hard as a black blade with haki

[polar bison]

yes. but the visual cue for us is a black blade. and the extrapolation here, again, should be pretty simple to make

[sand sail]

Except you're missing the glaring flaw of haki being invisible.

[polar bison]

no

[sand sail]

Yes, a blade imbued doesn't actually turn black, it just gets stronger

[polar bison]

but it seems pretty simple to me to think that the invisible black blade being turned into a visible permanent black blade is probably a haki process

[sand sail]

We've been shown repeatedly that haki is not a visible aspect, so being forged into a black blade is going to be somethng more than just a haki process

[nimble hinge]

Hardened blade. Not invisible black.

[sand sail]

Sure, that can be simple for you, and that's reasonable. But you're not going to deny you're making an assumption lol

[polar bison]

extrapolation

[nimble hinge]

LOL

[sand sail]

Assumption.

We should move to #also-manga if you'd like no more slow mode though

I'm okay with moving channels, gives theorists more space here too

[mellow silo]

These are my thoughts after finally finishing the theory, keep in my mind I do believe Zoro has conquerors Haki (has even possibly used it in the past Asura techniques). 1. I believe Kaido being confused in any way about the Scabbards damaging him, comes from his limited or zero knowledge of how ryou works. (He eventually catches on somewhat to what ryou can do and this is when Luffy teases him about dodging) 2. The fact that kaido notices odens Haki coming from the blade and then later on asks Zoro if he has it means that with he has it and is either amplifying odens/enmas CoC, or vice versa. (This only works if CoC can be stored in blades and if it can’t then this flat out means zoro has CoC and is being amplified by Enma or odens will. 3. For Zoro not to have CoC or to just not be using it in the attack means that the black blade process in wano peoples speaking is not just using armanment, and that it actually requires a mix in of CoC meaning the CoC in enma is either odens (which probably means kaido would have recognized oden in some way) or Zoros (which is a possibility) or a mix of both of theirs (which could explain why kaido asks if Zoro has it or not).

[polar bison]

no i don't want to argue this, as i said above i'm not interested in your way of dissecting theories. nitpicks aren't fun. if u want to discuss the theory overall and suggest arguments for why you think zoro does have CoC, or that this was an example of CoC, absolutely I'm down to do that.

but spending the next hour or two the same way as this one where it's just bitching abt semantics or ways of looking at things does not interest me in the slightest

[nimble hinge]

That way being, pointing out the issues. No one likes having their theories questioned.

[sand sail]

But your entire theory is based on the way you're looking at things. We can't discuss it without going into these details.

[polar bison]

ok

[sand sail]

Unless you just want no challenge to it at all, which is just fine, but that'll be on you to not respond at that point

Like I Said, it's a decent theory still

[polar bison]

then prove to me that your way of looking at things is better and more in line with the manga

[sand sail]

There's just a lot of kind of shaky premise just because we haven't really gotten a good explanation toward these things, but you're assuming a hard line about them

It's not about better, it's just you're defending these like you didn't just do exactly what you said, extrapolating the evidence. Which means you're drawing an inference, an assumption, from what we know

And that's fine too, but don't shy away from what you're doing here lol, better to keep the theory and keep molding it around what we find later. Personally, I don't fully think Zoro has it either

[polar bison]

assumptions are things made without any proof, reasoning or evidence

[sand sail]

And for a lot of the same reasons, like Kaido being mistaken for example

[polar bison]

don't like the word don't think it describes this theory in any which way

[sand sail]

Assumptions don't have to be made without proof or evidence, it's just the basis of your theory

[mellow silo]

I feel that Zoro does have CoC not to the full extent of Luffy like exerting it that way but is able to manifest it through his Asura technique. I send a paragraph above regarding your theory and I think it has some merit to it.

Not full explanation or anything but just some thoughts

[sand sail]

The thing is, just because you have something that you can kind of hint to your premise doesn't mean you suddenly now have evidence that directly supports it. Example, you were stating that Zoro was about to mention haki in his bit with Onimaru.

that is, by definition, an assumption. Because he doesn't. He doesn't even hint at it actually, he just goes on to try to mention something about black blades that he was interested in

Could have been about haki, most definitely, 100%. But was it actually? No. So you're assuming from that cliffhanger sentence that he was talking about haki.

[polar bison]

yea and that's where context comes in

[sand sail]

It's similar to someone stating Shanks was talking about Luffy or Blackbeard at Mariejois and stating it's not an assumption, even though we have no idea where he was going either

Context doesn't lend itself to mentioning haki here either. Their whole fight had nothing to do with haki, and unless I'm mistaken, no one ever mentions it in relation to anything

[polar bison]

that makes it an inference, not an assmption

[sand sail]

In fact, the only bit about black blades and haki we have at all, was Mihawk's mention of any blade becoming as strong as Yoru with good enough haki

An inference is an assumption.

An assumption derived from logic, but still assumed lol

[polar bison]

i mean as i said before

definitionally speaking assumptions are things made without evidence/proof/reasoning. that's the distinction between them and inferences

[sand sail]

There's no real functional difference here, you have reasoning but you are still assuming that specific bit of evidence, and several others. You're inferring from your assumptions, not from the evidence provided as much

Or, in other words, using this Onimaru/Zoro bit as an example. You assumed that Zoro was about to talk about black blades, and therefore inferred that it was what happened to Shusui and what will inevitably be involved with Enma

Except he never finished that sentence, therefore your inference is literally based on you assuming what Zoro was about to say. Understand?

[mellow silo]

Is it possible that to fully form a black blade CoC is required and not just CoA? (this would imply ryuma had CoC if that statement is true) if this is true this puts a bit of a hole in the theory imo. also that if it was purely enmas/odens CoC and not Zoros then why would kaido not recognize it as such as odens will in some way and not Zoros (which leads me to believe Zoros and odens are both mixing through Enma or that it is purely Zoros CoC being amplified by Enma, which used and possibly has stored some of odens Haki from the past.

[pure raven]

(*this would imply Ryuma had CoC)

[nimble hinge]

Inference or not doesn't matter. It can be a inference from a scientific method of proving something. But from a logical method, they are all still assumptions regardless of how much evidence supports them.

[mellow silo]

Imply my bad

[nimble hinge]

Only two black blades we've belong to the king of swordsman or the sword god, and the WSS. Both likely to have CoC, based on the conquer part of those titles.

But, that's an assumption. Despite whatever supporting evidence.

[mellow silo]

Yeah but the whole point of theories is using implied meanings of certain scenes/statements mixed with some truths or other statements we are assuming to say certain things, is it not?

You can’t have a theory if it is all confirmed info then it’s just a statement

[nimble hinge]

Sure. But you also have to remember they are just assumptions, and could also be something else and so accounting for another possibility is often smart.

It's just as important to show why x as it is why not y, in my opinion.

[sand sail]

In general, it's good to know what disproves what you're about to throw out anyway

Falsifying a theory is how you prove its eligibility

[nimble hinge]

Yeah, proof by negation is generally easier.

[pure raven]

'Disproof by counterexample' is as good as it gets, I'm afraid

It's a lot easier for somebody to say 'theory x doesn't work because y exists' than it is to collect evidence to make 'theory x' in the first place

[mellow silo]

Yeah but all I’m saying is every theory is going to assume details that are unconfirmed. Correct? Not for any specific theory but yeah there’s always 2 sides to look at it from, the assumptions make it possible or the assumptions make it untrue because they are unconfirmed. The only way u can completely disprove a theory is by fact of it being incorrect. Where am I wrong here? (I’m just tryna have a civil discussion lol)

[sand sail]

Yeah, that's the only real requirement for a theory too. Being able to falsify it is the best way of knowing how credible it can be

[pure raven]

I haven't been here for long what's your theory, Nikit?

[nimble hinge]

That's the difference between a theory and a good theory for me. You can suggest one outcome and show why. But that's just a theory. Making a good theory is when you give reasons why other scenarios are not possible, justify present contradictions, or suggest why this theory is a more likely outcome than the others.

[nimble hinge]

Think of it as a theory is presenting the possibility of something. And a good theory is presenting the most likely possible outcome.

[mellow silo]

I don’t have one I just had thoughts based off of somebody else’s theory idc if my thoughts get argued or disproved in any way I’m just saying for theories in general.

[mellow silo]

I agree with that although I’d say a good theory is one that can produce one out of the group of the likely outcomes not only the MOST likely one, cuz the most likely outcome can change and is subjective

[mellow silo]

Anyways

Can we talk about this and Zoros eye?

[pure raven]

Training with Mihawk?

[wicked grove]

Aight I have something to say. How many of you guys subscribe to the idea that Crocodile was once a woman/female? Because I’m 100% convinced of it

[pure raven]

Not convinced at all. Can you convince me?

I guess not

[kind gate]

lmfao

[mellow silo]

Yes obviously he got it during that time, but the question is how that’s what I’m speculating about.

[pure raven]

Sword meets face

[mellow silo]

Hmph lemme rephrase. Why is Oda refusing to answer, what is the significance of this/what is the reason behind this? Has to be somewhat significant of a reason.

Also oda calls him a “one eyed character”

Using that statement I’m guessing there has to be some sort of significance to all of it

[pure raven]

luffy will take a shit that will be seen by every character in the one piece world since he eats alot

[grizzled fog]

Don’t think it has to be significant at all

[misty timber]

I feel it might be also like the question why his 3 earrings ? For his look ? Beczuse of the 3 swords ? Maybe oda just wanted a guy with one eye because it s a pirate story and it s pirate style .. I only think there might be more to it just because a lot of the swordsmen have the scar but i never read convincing theories

[sand sail]

@pure raven No memes here please, this channel is for substantive discussion of theories and ideas

[pure raven]

Sorry

[sand sail]

[sacred hawk]

I have a theory

[lapis prairie]

For the eye thing, Raleigh has the same cut on his eye, but his eye is open

I still think it's a Haki training thing

[sacred hawk]

Kaido wouldn't actually survive if he jumped into the sea. Because even if his dragon form can breathe underwater, the effects of the sea would force him back to his normal form anyway.

[lapis prairie]

We don't know if DF works like that

but he could always jump into water in human form

[sacred hawk]

Actually, it's how Monster Point Chopper was originally dealt with in enies lobby

[lapis prairie]

makes sense

though maybe the fish-fish fruit just grants you the ability to breath underwater

[sand sail]

You'd think that, but Kaido's invulnerability translates to his human body too

There's no guarantee that he couldn't breathe underwater, assuming his fruit would allow him to as a dragon

[grizzled fog]

Why? And how

[lapis prairie]

If he's trying to die, you'd think that would be the first thing a DF user would do though

[lapis prairie]

I thought an observation Haki training method

[sand sail]

He's not just trying to die, he's trying to achieve something with death

[grizzled fog]

So how does cutting your eye help with obs haki?

[lapis prairie]

Do we know that? What was he trying to achieve with the cloud-jump suicide?

[sand sail]

Apparently he also does it out of boredom, but no one's ever died from falling off of a sky island so far

That's pretty glorious lol

[lapis prairie]

Force half your vision to rely on Obv Haki

[sand sail]

He hasn't had very good training if that's the case

[grizzled fog]

...okay... let’s go with that. Why does it have to be a permanent wound lol, why not just put a blindfold on

[lapis prairie]

Though I had this idea before, and haven't addressed it since, Katakuri

[grizzled fog]

Also you’d think zoro would have some exceptional obs haki by now

[lapis prairie]

Yeah, I mean the idea came out of one of the strongest Haki users having a scar, then Zoro goes to train Haki and comes back with the same scar

[grizzled fog]

So why do they have to permanently scar it, instead of just like. Putting an eyepatch on

[lapis prairie]

Gotta lock it down

[grizzled fog]

[sour badge]

If Luffy take down Kaido with only using Conquerors Haki i will say that Luffy more stronger than Kaido

[grizzled fog]

You’d say that knowing how much effort multiple people put into bringing kaido down? Do you think luffy would have a chance if both him and kaido were at full strength?

[pure raven]

Kaido has better endurance and HP, but Luffy has better Evasion and Observation

[queen arrow]

first and foremost, Rayleigh himself trained Luffy's observation with a blindfold and not by cutting his eye, and second, Rayleigh has a scar but his eye isn't always closed so "forcing half your vision to rely on using observation haki" doesn't work

[lapis prairie]

Or he figured the Haki out, so he doesn't need it cut anymore

[west flicker]

That doesnt make any sense

[pure raven]

Who wants to go on call

I’m bored

[pastel summit]

go ask in #off-topic idk why you're asking in manga theories lmao

[lapis prairie]

Okay, let me explain my thinking to you. First off, we got Raleigh, right? He's got this scar over his eye. Now Raleigh, he's real strong. Strongest guy in Haki we've seen up to that point. So strong is Raleigh that an admiral (this dude could turn into actual LIGHT. Like wut?), somebody who honestly seemed invincible at this point , was scared of him. This Raleigh is a big deal, get me? Let me know if I've lost you here, so I can go back and explain that point to you again, just in case it doesn't make sense. And again, so you understand, he has this scar that goes from the top of his eye to below his eye; the only one like it in the entire manga. Okay, I think you probably understand that, but honestly if the post you replied to doesn't make any sense, who the fuck knows. Now we get to Zoro. Zoro wants to be strong, and he knows he needs to get stronger. The last time we see Zoro before he gets his scar, he's literally at the feet of the man he wants to beat more than anyone in the world, and asks THIS DUDE, whose name is Hawkeye, for help. And Hawkeye says yeah, I'll help you. Now, I'm more telling you this part to refresh your memory, because if that post you replied to doesn't make any sense, I'm really worried about your mental heath, and so I feel like this type of constant reminder is necessary. So, finally, after TWO YEARS and intense training, Zoro has the same scar as the strongest guy we've ever seen. What I'm saying is I think there maybe a CORRELATION between the two. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/correlation That's the link for the websters dictionary definition of correlation.

[lapis prairie]

That was for you

[amber oar]

is this pasta?

[lapis prairie]

No

I've been drinking

[amber oar]

fair enough. Don't drink and discord my friend

[lapis prairie]

Haven't been too much, enough to just be erked by the dumb sentence, and that got away from me

[grizzled fog]

You’d think the two people with scars that apparently help them train obs would show some special skill with it lol, but zoro has shown pretty average obs, and ray has too outside of having impressive range

Also it seems like your justification for this is that ray is stronk and zoro wants to be stronk? But like, we haven’t seen anyone else in the story that’s strong with a scar like this

Also, why not use blindfold like ray had luffy do? Wouldn’t ray have wanted luffy to use this technique for his obs if it worked?

[lyric dust]

the scar and their "role" are similar, nothing else

[lapis prairie]

Oda is deliberate. That he would make the #2s of both of the pirate kings have the same scar over their eyes is, to me, an unusual choice

[grizzled fog]

Not...really? They are scars in the same general spot on their bodies.

Luffy and kaido both have scars on their chests

[lyric dust]

[lapis prairie]

I've thought about that. The biggest factor in the scar meaning something, is that we never saw it happen. He doesn't have any other new scars. He didn't come back battle tested, just one cut over his eye. Something that should in all rights be a determent to him, but it is the most striking visual result of his training

[brazen grove]

guys can i share my theory

[lapis prairie]

please

[brazen grove]

give me a couple min to type it

umi is imu backwards who is a character in one piece. umi being short for umibozo. if you search up umibozo you get things that look similar to the florian triangle giants. my thoery is that imu is a species. they can be like giants or something.this makes even more sense when you think that the higher ups wanted to get rid of morria who else to trust other than his own species. my guess is that imu is a giant along with the five elders and its here where i cant think of anything else other than the big strawhat might be bigger than we thought and it might be joyboys who might be a seaking because of his relation to Poseidon.

[lapis prairie]

This is one of the wildest theories I've ever read. I love it

I don't know who Umi is though

[brazen grove]

no umi is imu backwards

imu is the character

[lapis prairie]

Okay, gotcha

[brazen grove]

it could make sense because oda like putting things in his manga that existed like irl blackbeard and whitebeard. but in this case he might be playing around and chaniging the letters around a little

[lapis prairie]

Looking them up, they are usually drawn in shadow

[brazen grove]

since a umibozo were rumored to be real

[lapis prairie]

And they prey on ships

[brazen grove]

https://www.google.com/search?q=umibozo&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwi-rsXQuY7wAhUCdqwKHaPKAsEQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=umibozo&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzICCAAyBggAEAoQGDIGCAAQChAYOgcIIxDqAhAnOgQIIxAnOgQIABBDOgUIABCxAzoICAAQsQMQgwE6BwgAELEDEENQ7VxYpXVg53doAnAAeACAAVWIAcgEkgEBOJgBAKABAaoBC2d3cy13aXotaW1nsAEKwAEB&sclient=img&ei=VqN_YL6rCYLssQWjlYuIDA&bih=881&biw=1745#imgrc=JRx7A1eNgHqI6M

mhm ships hmmmmmm wonder if they come out in one piece

[lapis prairie]

I saw a theory that the straw hat Umi sees isn't a real strawhat, but like a symbol to show what the WG's greatest threat is

Cause in Umi's hands are a bunch of other pictures of threats to the WG: blackbeard and shira

[brazen grove]

oh damn

i forgot but was the florian triangle a calm sea

[lapis prairie]

I Don't think so.

well, it wasn't bad before they found the trap on the water

[brazen grove]

yeah i its cause i saw that umibozos like to appear on sailors on the calm seas

[limpid bronze]

Honestly I think Imu is just someone who had the Eternal Youth Surgery of the Ope Ope No Mi performed on him

Obviously with more context than that

But I personally believe he’s been the ruler since the Void Century

[formal quest]

I think Sanji needs to have Advanced Observation Haki

To at least compete with Zoro

[grizzled fog]

Right now? He doesn’t need it to do that. But he probably will get it in the future

[formal quest]

Maybe while fighting King in Wano or at the next arc

[grizzled fog]

Considering he just got a pretty big powerup I don’t think he’ll need that this arc

[stiff fiber]

wat?

[grizzled fog]

? Wym wat

[stiff fiber]

wats that

flying+haki

[west flicker]

Idk if oda is gonna continue the whole sanji zoro rivalry anymore. They might still bicker but he hasnt been showing them as equals post time skip

[grizzled fog]

Dunno what you mean? I just mean that Sanji got a big powerup already (raid suit), so he doesn’t really need one so soon

[west flicker]

U say that, but the raid suit hasnt rly shown to be powerful yet.

[grizzled fog]

It absolutely has

[stiff fiber]

i dont think raid suit is that powerful

[west flicker]

How?

[formal quest]

The only powerful thing was with PageOne and that was Anime only

[stiff fiber]

stealth can be sensed with observation haki

[west flicker]

Sanji could have beaten page one without the raid suit for starters

[grizzled fog]

Tanking an attack from king that was meant to kill him with virtually no damage isnt impressive?

[west flicker]

And going invisible can be detected with observation

[grizzled fog]

Not sure what part of that fight you mean was anime only

[pure raven]

It is quite powerful

[grizzled fog]

This is speculation, we really don’t know

[west flicker]

What part of it is powerful?

[grizzled fog]

It’s durability for one

[pure raven]

The incredible durability

[west flicker]

U go invisible by reflecting ur background. Observation detects your presence

[pastel summit]

durability, the invisibility, the extra power it'd give.

[grizzled fog]

For all we know it could hide your presence. We really don’t know dude

[pastel summit]

doesn't matter. forcing someone to constantly use observation just to fight on a level playing field is already an advantage.

[grizzled fog]

^ that too

[west flicker]

Ye but thats speculation. Based of what we've seen, u cant say that

[grizzled fog]

???? What. I said we don’t know lmao. Only one assuming is you

[stiff fiber]

bruh thats made from science

[pastel summit]

and even really high-tier observation users like katakuri can't keep track of presence constantly. Maybe against someone like fujitora it'd be useless? and not everyone has his level of skill with observation.

[west flicker]

U said it could hide ur presence. How is that not speculation?

[grizzled fog]

I said for all we know It could, but we literally don’t know how it interacts with obs haki

[pure raven]

we barely see anything of the suit

[grizzled fog]

Okay?

So are the smile fruits, or vegapunk’s fake dragon fruit

[stiff fiber]

theres no presence bs
its basic camouflage

[west flicker]

Ye, and from what we have seen it doesnt seem that good

[grizzled fog]

How so?

[pastel summit]

sure, just ignore sanji's word on how useful it is and say it's not good. great argument.

[west flicker]

what did sanji accomplish with it?

[pastel summit]

read the manga. no point discussing this. have any actual theories?

[pure raven]

Saving momo and not dying to king

[west flicker]

I still say sanji could have blocked kings attack with haki

[pastel summit]

based on what? Sanji himself said the suit protected him, so its your headcanon vs sanji's on whether or not sanji could tank the attack.

I'm going to trust sanji more than you when it comes to sanji.

[stiff fiber]

sanji needs powerup without the suit imo

[west flicker]

Well ye. He just tanked it with the suit, he didnt need to block it. Im not saying the suit is useless. Im saying they could have shown it to be better

[pastel summit]

you are literally saying it's useless.

[west flicker]

I didnt say that once

[pastel summit]

you're saying he's accomplished nothing with it. That's saying it's useless. lmao.

[west flicker]

Ye everything he did using the suit. He could have done without it. The suit made it easier but it wasnt necessary

[pure raven]

So he could have gotten momo eithout being invisible?

[stiff fiber]

if they had ppl with good obs haki
even the suit would render useless

[pure raven]

hmm that i agree with

considering it was made with science it can probably be countered with obs

[pastel summit]

cool, well they didn't. Very few people actually have the capability to passively sense people they can't see. Acting like everyone has high tier observation that completely nullifies invisibility is a disingenuous argument against it.

[stiff fiber]

thats why im telling he shouldnt rely on suit if it comes to powerups

when he has formidable foes that is

[pure raven]

its only really useful against ppl with no obs haki

[pastel summit]

Here, let me ask you this. Do you think Katakuri could sense Sanji with his raid suit on?

[stiff fiber]

u cant say that

[pure raven]

Why

[west flicker]

Obviously

[pastel summit]

Why do you say yes? He couldn't even sense Flampe until she showed herself. She was right there in the mirror world, and he had no fucking clue.

[stiff fiber]

its just the notion of ppl's presence
not the actual presence

[west flicker]

Katakuri is good at obs. But in the fight its shown that in fights he can lose concentration.

[stiff fiber]

if sanji is gonna go invisible then he must do that for attacking
which can be sensed by katakuri before landing a punch on him

[pure raven]

Enel can sense sanji in his suit so can katakuri

[pastel summit]

why? He couldn't even sense flampe.

[pure raven]

because he was in a fight

[stiff fiber]

the attack was small

[west flicker]

I already said why. Flampe shot luffy right before katakuri was going to stab him. He doesnt use obs 24/7

[pure raven]

he's focusing on fighting luffy

[pastel summit]

so you're saying that invisibility is useless if against an observation haki user, but also saying that even good observation users don't sense everything, because they're not concentrating on everything all the fucking time. Thanks for proving my point.

If he's not concentrating on the invisible dude, he's not going to sense him.

[pure raven]

bro its literally a situation where he sense sanji

[west flicker]

Ye but if ur in a fight wih that person. Then u would sense them. Katakuri wasnt fighting flampe so he wouldnt even think to be use obs right before he stabbed luffy

[pastel summit]

you're already forcing someone to use their haki in a specific way if you fight while invisible. That's already a huge advantage.

[pure raven]

its how he uses his haki so its not a disadvantage

[west flicker]

Idk about that. Observation hasnt been shown to drain people the same way armament does

[pastel summit]

and once again, this is for HIGH TIER users only. Zoro can use observation haki, but he couldn't sense where the fuck Pica was at all. Because he's not an expert.

[stiff fiber]

but still if he lands an attack itll be brutal on sanji

[pastel summit]

You're acting like any fucking idiot who can use basic observation haki could immediately detect where he is.

[pure raven]

u toxic

[stiff fiber]

bruh we talking about emperors

[pure raven]

also, katakuri's observation haki isnt "basic"

[pastel summit]

and this is a dumb argument just to downplay what advantages the raid suit gives because you want to say "sanji bad"

[pure raven]

you're comparing zoro's obs with katakuri's obs.. 🤡

[west flicker]

Pica is different tho that woupd be like trying to find a needle in a mountain sozed haystack. This is just findig someone whos out in the open camoflauged

[pastel summit]

yes, the same emperors who couldn't sense the scabbards stabbing them from behind.

[stiff fiber]

that isnt my point
i want sanji to powerup in terms of haki and anything but not by raidsuit

[stiff fiber]

that didnt make them flinch*

[pastel summit]

acting like emperors are gods at everything.

[west flicker]

I like sanji. Im only pointing all this out cause the raid suit should be better than what it was

[pastel summit]

literally did make him flinch. arguing with 3 speedreaders, not even about a theory, in the theories channel.

[pure raven]

you're using the argument that zoro couldnt sense pica so katakuri wont sense sanji..

[stiff fiber]

theyre called emperors for a reason

[pastel summit]

not what I'm arguing. try reading.

[west flicker]

Its a manga channel. Everyone here read the manga

[pure raven]

?

are you seriously implying katakuri isnt an expert?

[pastel summit]

Yes, read it carefully. I'm saying only high tier observation haki users could actually be able to sense sanji while he is invisible.

[pure raven]

and that includes katakuri.. you just defeated your own argument

[stiff fiber]

yeah

[west flicker]

So u think zoro wouldnt be able to sense absalom?

[pastel summit]

No. I am implying he is an expert, and he still has flaws. and you acting like any moron with observation haki outright counters the raidsuit is disingenuous.

[pure raven]

Yeah, he's an expert. You just said experts would sense him, you just defeated your own argument dumbass 🤡

[pastel summit]

This isn't about Sanji vs Katakuri. This is about the advantages of the raidsuit. The fact that it makes the user invisible is an advantage.

[west flicker]

Ye but not a big one

[pastel summit]

god I'm so fucking sick of absolute turdbrains like you coming in here without reading the manga and not even reading what I'm saying

[west flicker]

Everyone here read the manga. Its a manga channel idiot

[pure raven]

he conceded just leave him he has a superiority complex

speds like him embarass themselves ona daily basis

[pastel summit]

I said experts CAN sense him. I am saying experts cannot 100% without fail always sense him. Because even though Katakuri is an expert, he still has flaws. and as far as I'm concerned, you need at least observation haki on the level of Katakuri's to be able to properly sense an invisible person. and once again, not even Katakuri would be able to sense him 100% perfectly. Does this make it clear to you???

Do I have to treat you like a 5 yr old?
Kata observation = good
need good observation to sense invisible person
good observation still no sense invisible all the time

[west flicker]

Dont bring ur headcanon of what you need to see someone invisible is

[pastel summit]

okay, then why couldn't zoro sense pica? He's effectively invisible.

[pure raven]

🤡 zoro's obs is nowhere near katakuri's, this isnt an argument stop embarassing yourself

[pastel summit]

yes, that's the point

[west flicker]

Theres a big difference between sensing someone in a statue the size of a mountain. And finding someone on a battlefield. Also we dont know how bad or good zoros obs is

His trainig with mihawk was clearly centred around armament. Using zoro as a standard for average wouldnt be accurate

[pure raven]

this is just sad

[pastel summit]

I am using zoro as a standard because he is representative of a STANDARD observation haki user. Katakuri is an EXPERT. Yes, an EXPERT may be able to counter the raid suit, but the AVERAGE observation haki user would not be able to. Not everyone sanji is going to fight will be an expert like Katakuri.

[pure raven]

pica's not invisible reread the series, if you can even read.

[pastel summit]

just having observation haki doesn't give you a free pass to sense anyone who is invisible.

[west flicker]

And im saying theres no reason for u to think zoros obs is even mediocore. He doesnt use it much. It could be below average. His main uses of it r just dodging bullets

[pastel summit]

@pure raven I'm blocking you, so don't bother replying to me.

[pure raven]

go ahead, you'll probably just click on my messages anyway 😂

[pastel summit]

Zoro still had some level of training in it.

[west flicker]

Ye ik. But theres no basis to say its average

[pastel summit]

He was able to sense Caribou in FMI along with Sanji and Luffy. I would say he is a good representative of the average user.

[west flicker]

Wasnt caribou just in a barrel?

[pastel summit]

He's by no means an expert, but he can still use it. He can't do things like spot a specific person in a battlefield, or accurately sense someone who can move through a rock.

[pure raven]

pica isnt invisible and so is carribou

[pastel summit]

No, at the end. When he was about to capture Shirahoshi. All 3 of them sensed something "like a wild beast" and then they found Caribou trying to kidnap her.

[west flicker]

Oh

[pure raven]

thats different than sensing some1 invis

[pastel summit]

if you want, I can go about how King or Queen couldn't sense Sanji either. I can talk about how Kaido couldn't sense the scabbards. Kaido also couldn't tell Orochi was still alive after he cut off his head, and sensing life force is also a part of observation haki.

Even though these are "strong guys", they don't have this god level of observation haki to sense everything around them all the time, especially not things they can't see. Which is why invisibility is an advantage.

[west flicker]

Ye but obs clearly isnt kaidos strong suit. Him and his crew mainly just tank attacks and hit hard. Not rly dodging. Kaido hasnt tried to dodge once in this fight

[pure raven]

He has dodged

[pastel summit]

Yes, which means not everyone puts focus into it. So that just proves my point. You can be strong without having a good enough level of observation haki that you can completely sense an invisible person running around.

[pure raven]

no

[west flicker]

Ye but sanji couldnt damage people like that even if he wanted to. The raid suit hasnt given him any increased offensive capabilities other than maybe speed. Which is a theme in everyones raidsuit. Except his

[pastel summit]

and then there's the durability of it, which Sanji has commented on both times he's used it. Whether or not you think he could tank it, it's clear that it's significantly reducing the damage it takes.

[novel zephyr]

Kaido dodged lufffys attacks, luffy made a joke about it last chapter

[pastel summit]

He still has the rocket boosters which I assume give speed. and I'd assume the raidsuit makes his kicks hit harder as well.

[west flicker]

Ye i forgot about that.

[grizzled fog]

The rocket boosters boost his speed.
More speed = more power

[west flicker]

I said other than speed. And even with speed the difference between his speed before and now isnt rly noticeable

[pastel summit]

yeah. but sanji is strong without his raid suit. So his raidsuit doesn't need to give him lightning powers like Niji or w/e. And it's still an enhancement to his overall combat ability.

[grizzled fog]

Sanji hasn’t really used it in a situation where we can tell if the speed is different

[pastel summit]

the invisibility is more in line with Sanji's character. Him doing sneaky stuff.

And going back to the original point, I doubt Sanji is going to get some new power up. It's more going to be about him learning to use the raidsuit better. taking advantage of the invisibility, and also being able to tank stuff. Similar to how Zoro got stronger by learning how to use Enma better.

[west flicker]

Tru but the raid suit isnt rly comparable to the power ups zoro and luffy got respectivley. Pre ts they were shown to be more equal. But he gap seems to be getting bigger and bigger post ts

[novel zephyr]

The raid suit let him walk off what was basically the equivlent to getting stabbed int eh gut

[pure raven]

Newkama Kenpo and new recipes from attack cuisine (new to us) are the best power ups for Sanji going forward

[pastel summit]

well, he hasn't done much. Similar to Zoro. Zoro didn't really do much between the start of timeskip and wano. only now is he really getting tested.

[grizzled fog]

Raid suit is definitely comparable to enma from what we’ve seen so far, and wouldn’t expect it to be like luffy’s numerous power ups

[west flicker]

U rly think he couldnt have blocked that with haki, if he didnt use he raid suit instead?

[novel zephyr]

Maybe he could of blocked it, but he wouldnt of gotten up so easily without the raid suit protection

[formal quest]

Sanji should have a power-up other than Raid Suit..........cause he hates it since its Germa tech

[pure raven]

eh Franky and Usopp are changing it, I don't know if he'll care that much

[pastel summit]

he could've blocked it. But he'd be injured after it. The point was that the raid suit allowed him to get up with no real consequences.

[west flicker]

I dont see sanji doing anythig big in wano

[pastel summit]

and we don't even know if that was just his raid suit. If he used raid suit + haki, would be a stronger defence.

[pure raven]

He already has

[pastel summit]

I'm sure he'll do something. Oda is building towards something. Sanji has had some of the most focus of the people below the roof.

[west flicker]

R we reading the same manga?

[pure raven]

Are you talking about punchy punchy kicky kicky? Or just a big moment

[west flicker]

True but all of the major fights seem to be handled. At most hell do something with cp 0

[pastel summit]

Well, nothing has concluded yet.

[grizzled fog]

Not sure what you mean by handled. There’s a lot of fluidity and king is very open for Sanji

[pure raven]

King exists

[west flicker]

Marco was dealing with king and queen pretty well on his own and the worst generation sans luffy is coming down the roof. And they wont sit still doig nothing

[exotic echo]

naw, homie.

[grizzled fog]

Marco isn’t dealing with them well

[pure raven]

Marco is tiring out

[exotic echo]

Marco is about to be overwhelmed by king & queen and peros just showed up, too

sanji is most likely headed there. watch

[grizzled fog]

Marco was tiring out and running out of regen before either went hybrid

[west flicker]

Sanji has had alot of character development post ts. He hasnt had a single good fight post ts tho

[exotic echo]

you didn't like his fight w judge or his bros? thought those were pretty impactful

[tired osprey]

his fight with luffy

[grizzled fog]

I liked Sanji vs Bobbins personally

[exotic echo]

he had some pretty emotional moments i enjoyed in WCI

fight-wise

[west flicker]

He did say hes getting tired, but we dont know of its the same as no more regen

[grizzled fog]

Sanji VS luffy was excellent, and it’s not like he didn’t have some nice scuffles in wci

[tired osprey]

lots of skirmishes and clashes, which is cool, vergo, doffy, capone, his family, lots of big mom officers and even big mom herself

but no big juicy fat 1v1 in a while

[exotic echo]

him getting his shit pushed in by niji & ichiji was a pretty powerful moment for me, really drove in the hopelessness of the situation

[grizzled fog]

We do know he’s running out, because he was covered in scratches and bruises, and the wing that was cut off by king never regenerated, he turned it back into a human arm

[west flicker]

U rly count that as a fight?

[tired osprey]

its a cool clash

[pure raven]

Did i say it was a fight?

[west flicker]

Not even a clash oven didnt even know he was there

[tired osprey]

he doesnt need to know

[west flicker]

My point is for being part of he monster trio who got good fights pre ts. Post ts he either fought fights he won easily, quick clashes or fights he was just used to hype up villains like vergo and doffy

[grizzled fog]

I mean it makes sense, it’s in his character. He usually fights to protect people, or to accomplish some other objective. He’s rarely or never fighting to actually surpass an opponent like luffy or zoro

[west flicker]

U say that but hes been in plenty of situations like that post ts and most of the time they show him failing to protect people

[grizzled fog]

Wh, like when?

[west flicker]

Doflamingi, vergo, his brothers probably more lemme think

[grizzled fog]

He didn’t fail against vergo, he successfully protected the crew from him, doesn’t matter if he lost the fight, he saved them by buying time for law to arrive.
Also didn’t fail to protect anyone against vergo lol, he literally did exactly what he wanted to.

[novel zephyr]

He protected the entire crew from doflamingo

[west flicker]

Ur missing the point. He succeeded in buying time but he hasnt won any important fights. I appreciate all of the character development and the emotional fights. But sanji is a combatant on the crew not just a chef. So it is weird when post ts he shifts from being on the same league as zoro to this.

Im not saying zoro is perfect either. He gets alot of fights but as a character hes very one note

[grizzled fog]

I didn’t miss any point? You said he failed to protect people which is false

[pure raven]

even as a chef, he has this whole thing with 99 special recipes... and has only used 2

[west flicker]

Ye thats fine but did u only read the first line?

[grizzled fog]

“U say that but hes been in plenty of situations like that post ts and most of the time they show him failing to protect people” I responded to this lol

[west flicker]

Ye and u completely ignored the rest of what i said

[grizzled fog]

I don’t really care about him not winning those fights against vergo or doffy, because as I explained it’s within his character not to bother to finish them out after he’s achieved his initial objective. I’m not even gonna touch that zoro point because I’m not interested in getting into that mess of a debate

[west flicker]

U dont need to get into it. But that doesnt make the point any less valid

[pure raven]

the point you made is not valid just because it's about two different things - protecting people and winning fights. Should he win more fights? That's one thing. Is winning them necessary to protect people? Not really, unless you're talking long term or wtv

Sanji in a way saved the crew from Doflamingo, but if he just killed Doffy there, the rest of the crew wouldn't have to worry, sure

[craggy pumice]

That makes it even more impressive lol

[rugged sapphire]

Hello

[proper wing]

Dont remind me of oda hackery on pound death

[hidden prism]

I get the idea that at admiral level, everyone knows about he history of hte world and they have complex reasons in the case of guys like Fujitora and Aokiji for supporting the WG in the face of that
like they genuinely believe its net positive for WG to have control
same with Garp

I would love to hear some other voices weigh in on this

[kind gate]

idk if becoming an admiral means you would immediately learn the history of the world

[lyric dust]

its way too dangerous and knowing the history means that you can blackmail the gorosei into doing whatever you like by threatening to leak it to everyone on the planet

[compact drift]

you'd think becoming an admiral would make it a liability to learn the history of the world

just increases the chance of defection

[hidden prism]

Akainu either A) Legitimately believes WG propaganda about WMD's B) Is just a fucking psycho and all his talk about justice is a front for him being able to kill people or C) has actual knowledge about history that makes him ideologically come to the conclusion that Ohara needed to be genocided at all costs. To me, C is the most obvious conclusion to draw

[lyric dust]

also it could distract them from their duties, because, what if they're like, thinking about it all the time

[compact drift]

in that same regard the WG has a vice grip on almost all info, they could just say he's lying take him out with an assassin and all is well

there's a reason why it hasn't been leaked to the world from the numerous people who have that info

[lyric dust]

yeah and they would've definitely pursued kuzan and killed him when he left the marines

[compact drift]

💯💯

[lyric dust]

also akainu was a vice admiral at that time... do you think they would seriously tell HIM?

[kind gate]

nah akainu doesn't know shit

[hidden prism]

assuming Kuzan actually left the marines. If he had the knoweldge of the missing history already, he already ideologically chose his side his entire life. If he believed the WG being in power was a net positive and was even willling to kill his friends like Saul etc. to protect that, hes not a threat

[lyric dust]

kuzan doing all this sword bullshit contradicts whatever he said at punk hazard

[kind gate]

marines are probably fed propaganda to keep them loyal

[kind gate]

yes kuzan prolly isn't in sword at all

[lyric dust]

again, your only counter to the kuzan statement is that "what if he didn't leave though!!!!!!!"

[hidden prism]

what did he say at Punk Hazard specifically, sorry I need a refresher

[kind gate]

he seems to be fully implemented in bb's system of faith

[hidden prism]

no its all the stuff after that too that I said

[amber oar]

that he realized he doesn't need to be part of the Navy to do things

[kind gate]

glasses go crazy

[hidden prism]

thanks homies

[lyric dust]

np np

[dense wing]

That line from Kuzan is interesting, makes me think that eventually he'll ally with the Straw Hats to help change the world and end the WG

Maybe he'll become leader of whatever new faction the Marines become EOS

Considering Sengoku wanted him as Fleet Admiral

[zinc iris]

I still find very off that he chose Blackbeard as the agent of change to associate with

[autumn igloo]

I think it's likely he's with Blackbeard as a means for something else, whether it's SWORD or something else entirely.

[zinc iris]

but why the blatantly evil guy instead of the straw hats?

[eternal garden]

after the war in wano, luffy wil succeed on killing kaido however, luffy's awakening has result him to his death. then the navy has arrived and straw hats and the others can't fight them because they're too exhausted. so instead of everyone will get caught Law says that it will just him and luffy. so the navy agree and law asked the navy to allowed him to conduct a surgery for luffy. but what law did was the awakening of his ability, the ability to make someone immortal but in exchange of his life. And so the news have traveled fast about law's sacrifice. and when luffy was about to execute, straw hat ship was seen from a distance with the 10,000 allies they had made back in dressrosa. together with the warriors in dressrosa and the alabasta kingdom, mink tribe, woman warriros lead by boa, wano samurai and other warriors, fishman and mermaids, revolutionary armies. and red hair pirates standby if blackbeard will join the war that's also when red hair will also join. and a person riding a raft coming towards them and it is rayleigh. and the whitebeard pirates lead by marco then some of the giants that survived. tuss then, the great war that Whitebeard has mentioned before his death has happened. whitebeard said it is what the navy had feared "THE GREAT WAR"

[zinc iris]

it's not like he doesn't know luffy is another agent of change

[dense wing]

I doubt he is going to permanently stick with BB. Remember that the Straw Hats have only rose to prominence recently in the New World. For the two years BB was probably the better call

[zinc iris]

the problem is that kuzan was savvy enough to recognize already luffy's future rise to greatness, especially because of what he pulled up to marineford

so he should have known luffy was the one to bet on

[dense wing]

I mean in that same arc he literally says Luffy wasn't ready. I don't think it's hard to imagine him using BB's influence for the 2 years to do his own thing, and he'll decide who he aligns with later

[zinc iris]

but he also knows luffy will get there

so tangling himself with bb knowing that already is not really logical

[dense wing]

Maybe but my main point is Aokiji wasn't going to sit around for 2 years doing nothing waiting for Luffy

And maybe he wants to be specifically near BB because he fears BB rising into more power

[frozen gust]

Would be epic but its unlikely to happen

[vestal rampart]

I dont think luffy wants to kill him lol

[eternal garden]

@vestal rampart what do you mean luffy want's to kill him?

The reason why dofy doesn't want anyone to take law's fruit was because it's awakening is immortality. but dofy's brother kept it secret even law's initial because law is also a D

and that dofy would instantly kill him.

[vestal rampart]

i mean kill kaido

he doesnt wanna kill him, also luffy doesnt wanna be imortal

[radiant blade]

Which chapter was it confirmed that Aokiji is with Blackbeard pirates? I just want to read it again as a refresher.

[mild kite]

I believe it was Jesus Burgess in the coloseum (Dressrosa)

chapter 704

[fringe tide]

Wasnt it jimbe who said that on fmi i cant remember lol

[amber oar]

Jinbe only mentioned his defection from the Navy

[wild veldt]

The gorosei mentioned it when talking to Akainu.

[amber oar]

it was first in a phone talk in Dressrosa, where Burgess commented he still didn't trust Aokiji

Later the Gorosei talked about it

[wild veldt]

Akainu then brushed it off

[stuck belfry]

kuzan likes garp right? do you think he is like spy or sword member like drake

[dark palm]

I don't think he's a sword member, given what he said during punk hazard

also, he just isn't the type to serve akainu

[stuck belfry]

hmm , he is moral justice type right? so i dont think he is bb pirates

[dark palm]

he could be joining them for other reasons besides sword

[stuck belfry]

yeah maybe

[dark palm]

like, still making an effort to regulate them without being in the navy

here's what I mean

this line would be retroactively meaningless

[tired osprey]

i thought of a title for a theory i want to write

Toki sending Luffy 2 years into the future and the last Nakama

[dark palm]

what the fuck

[tired osprey]

warning: post wano spoilers ahead

[clear sandal]

Aokji is such a cool character, I hope we get more info on him after he left the navy

[dark palm]

if it was anyone but you Oli, I'd reprimand them for posting memes in here

[tired osprey]

its not a meme man

but im thinking i should divide it into three to keep it simple, one for toki, one for tama and one for the timeskip

[sand sail]

Is this gonna be some twist where Luffy's last crewmate turns out to be a younger version of himself somehow because of Toki?

[tired osprey]

well, that would be a twist nobody saw coming

but nah, just trying to knit all loose ends together and picking up every seed in the same bag

i read through a bunch of the theories just to see how they were structured, im impressed and discouraged

[dark palm]

I believe in you Oli, write your magnum opus

[amber oar]

go on oli. What's the worst that can happen, being downvoted to death?

[queen arrow]

i doubt it's going to be the dumbest theory I've read anyway

[thorn cliff]

We've all seen worse.

[tired osprey]

how about this title?
Post-Wano Extravaganza, Timetravelling Luffy and The Last Nakama

[thorn cliff]

Is that a Harry Potter book?

[dusky acorn]

Yeah this one is better. It's best to leave some sense of vagueness in your title so as to not give away the entire premise, like the "2 years" part

Best not to show all your cards right away

[tired osprey]

yeah thats what I thought, thanks man, i got your notes right next to me

[ancient vault]

Toki shenanigans incoming

let me remind you before u post tho

#also-manga message

In case u missed this

[weak arrow]

I’m very interested to see exactly how the theory will go because on the surface it makes 0 sense whatsoever

[dusty galleon]

Oli when can we expect it to be published? Ngl I am curious

[rare cradle]

Luffy gets sent into the future 300 years and has seen a future that has been wrecked by the evil being known as akaido, now it is upon Luffy to undo the evils of akaido and return to the past. ||samurai jack ||

[sonic plaza]

i think it might be interesting if he is just sent into the future like 6 months and he finds out that the Straw Hats lost a battle to the Blackbeard Pirates and everyone died except Nami, who tells Luffy what happened.
So, Luffy has to go back 6 months and do it right this time

[rare cradle]

It’s already been confirmed though that traveling backwards is impossible.

[sonic plaza]

Toki's devil fruit lets you go to the future

• maybe another devil fruit lets you go to the past only

[rare cradle]

Maybe but time travel to the past would probably end up ruining the series, 99% authors can’t do it right.

[sonic plaza]

itz a theory

[errant nova]

Waiting lol

[pure raven]

I mean that's due to some real poor limits on writing

Time travel can work and it wouldn't surprise me if it did. Oda does A LOT of themeing with the will of a person, destiny/fate, and time travel sort of would actually work remarkably well as Luffy being destined to do this

[pure raven]

[nocturne iron]

The post-wano arc will be called WANO PISU, or I riot.

[sonic plaza]

post wano will prob be act 5

[patent coral]

i just noticed that there's an egg on the oro jackson. what are big fan theories regarding that egg?

is it a togepi

[pure raven]

Post Wano its that simple just like post enies lobby

[lilac cloud]

Just thought of a potential theory regarding Kuma and the sorbet kingdom
What if while he was king, he started working for the revolutionaries, and the WG found out. The WG could’ve threatened the safety of the sorbet kingdom, and Kuma gave himself up to the WG in order to protect his kingdom.

I feel like thats probaly been thought of before, but that line of reasoning would make sense

[autumn zinc]

Really sick of the ' taking all the burden on myself ' plot lines
Hoping for something more interesting for Kuma tbh

[haughty osprey]

Lol

[young bluff]

Yea

[jolly terrace]

👍

[dark oxide]

is there a break next week?

[outer locust]

Yes sadly

[dark oxide]

sadbruh

[pure raven]

Gear 4th. Blimp man

[pure raven]

ngl, I am hoping that Orochi dies. Not because I hate him. I just want it to be a good excuse for someone who is not afraid or terrible at fighting to use his fruit in the future. I like his fruit.

[keen portal]

I don't think we'll actually ever see another person with the Orochi Fruit even after he dies in Wano tbh

[pure raven]

so far, every character who has had a powerful devil fruit and died, the devil fruit normally appeared again

[weary cliff]

Same. The yamato no orochi myth is just so relative to the situation and wano what else do you do with it

[keen portal]

Ummm no?

[pure raven]

Ace, White Beard (but that is a special case) , some in wano flashback.

[weary cliff]

Yuki yuki hasn't shown back up

[keen portal]

The fruits that have come back are tied to the plot and have relevance to the new character that has them

[pure raven]

I mean, not really. Without it, the only thing that would be missing are the fake outs.

[keen portal]

I'm not outright denying the possibility.

It's just I can't think of another character being brought back into the story again and them having or needing the Orochi fruit for their character.

It's a meta argument, not really a possibility argument

[pure raven]

yeah yeah, I get it. Its not happening.

anyways

[weary cliff]

What I mean is that the whole reason for the fruit was to establish the reference and then subvert our expectations. Now that Orochi did his back from death trick, its role in the story is likely finished

It could be used with a potent fighter, but that's just not what Oda made it for. I also dont see the uo uo no mi being relevant after Kaido, but I'm a lot less sure of that

[pure raven]

yea and I said Its not happening. I take it back

[pure raven]

Zoro feeds it to a sword

[ancient vault]

zoro eats sword

[weary cliff]

Man I literally had the thought of Zoro getting a killing blow, and somehow cutting Kaido just the right way that it got the DF power. Because the tea pot shows us whatever the process is, it doesn't necessarily have to he this high tech thing only vegepunk can do. But not only would that be the asspull of all asspulls to power up Zoro, people would be treating every SBS like a serious spoiler

[pure raven]

it is not surprising that the dragons play an inportant role in the wano saga

maybe Zoro can land some good hit on kaido which enables luffy to finish him

and maybe in the usual zoro style...he does it unintentional

[grizzled fog]

He already landed that good hit last chapter. He gave everything he had and now he’s completely at his limit, there’s not even anyone in Onigashima capable of healing him enough to fight kaido or anyone strong for that matter

[mild kite]

Zoro's out... temporarily. No doubt he will be healed enough to continue to play a role battlewise or act as the defacto leader below the roof while luffy is fighting kaido. I would much prefer the latter.

It would be fitting as he has just awakened Coc. If he doesn't have a major 1v1, I predict he will serve as THE leader below the roof.

Id Like to think Oda had something in mind when he wrote this.

[lyric dust]

awakened coc as in imbuing?

oh wait, im reading the sentence wrong...

[weary cliff]

Marco, Chopper and Law are all right here. If there was ever a chance of someone in Zoro's condition rejoining the action, its this raid

[grizzled fog]

I’ll copy and paste this again.

A rundown of all Onigashima’s Healers
Marco Flames do not work as well on other people, we also saw that Marco is tired and running out of flames recently.
Law Law is just a surgeon, he can stabilize zoro so he might not die of his injuries but he cannot magically heal him, and if he can it’s not much at all.
Chopper Same as Marco really, he can wrap zoro in bandages so he doesn’t die I guess, and speed up his recovery a bit. But no possible way for him to heal zoro into remotely decent condition for a powerful enemy.
Miyagi & Tristan Literally Chopper’s sidekicks. Seriously what the fuck are they gonna do. Is one of them hiding a devil fruit?
Hiyori Magic bandages I guess? May actually be Zoro’s best shot at recovering.
Hawkins Has a magic card that may be able to give zoro an extra boost, but I doubt it’ll be used on zoro and it would have to be pretty damn overpowered to help him enough for anyone strong at this point. Maybe worth a shot though.

[weary cliff]

I get it. I even agree that he's more likely to do something minor than a big 1v1 or going back to the roof. But I disagree with the Marco assessment in particular. As long as Zoro has the stamina, it will support the healing flame. The dude is nothing but stamina

[grizzled fog]

? Marco himself stated that his flames don’t do much at all on other people

[opaque notch]

Fanboy aside, who's gonna win? Koby vs sanji

[grizzled fog]

Hope that’s a joke

[eternal garden]

And the candy man has spotted marco. I'm thinking of they would face off.

[weary cliff]

I'll have to reread then. It seemed effective vs the ice oni but maybe that was a particular application where it worked out

[amber oar]

They're all very fair points I agree with, but I can totally expect a last clutch superflashy move to beat someone big. After Oda shoehorned CoC in Zoro I can see him doing that

[grizzled fog]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/164971940648321024/832454044928442388/0909-004.png

[sage pond]

this is so wholesome

[pure raven]

Swrml has been saying Hiyori could be that person

Wait is that another Tama?

[nimble hinge]

3 of the best known healers in the series. I expect Zoro to recover fairly well. Even if individually they can't heal him enough, a combined effort might just do the trick.

And that's without accounting for whoever healed the scabbards

[grizzled fog]

Chopper and law are doctors, exceptional ones at that. But they don’t have mansherry healing powers and i don’t understand why people think they do.

[nimble hinge]

They don't need to? Law can heal up the insides, chopper can get him some medicine to numb any pain deal with the smaller injuries. And Marco and his flames can speed up his recovery process.

He's obviously not going to be in prefect shape. But it's hard to see him not running around again two dozen chapters from now.

Marcos flame both heal and improve your own natural healing. If there's any character who's natural healing process sees the most benefit from an ability like that, I'd argue it's Zoro

Him and luffy heal and push through injuries shortly after getting them, well beyond the capabilities of any other character

[last halo]

The only reason I see Zoro get healed back to a state where he can defeat Orochi is because the scabbards themselves were healed and are now running around a fighting.

[nimble hinge]

It's not inconceivable that Marco and chopper have achieve something akin to what iva did for luffy

[grizzled fog]

It’s different though

[nimble hinge]

I expect the next arc to be a smaller one with one or two capable fighters. Perfectly fine for Oda to push Zoro to his limits knowing he can take a backseat in the next arc

[last halo]

The thing is, at that moment Luffy was the only person able to move everything forward

[desert hatch]

zoro needs a senju bean

[grizzled fog]

Luffy’s main issue during marineford was his energy, he was completely out, but his body wasn’t at its limit. Unless you are referring to ivankov healing him in impel down? Because that literally took more than a day lol

[nimble hinge]

It took significantly less than it should have precisely because of luffys immense will power

[desert hatch]

and it shortened his life span

[last halo]

But there's no reason to have it happen here to Zoro

[grizzled fog]

Indeed, but still a long time. Also ivankov has a devil fruit that lets him do that

[nimble hinge]

It would have shortened it regardless.

[desert hatch]

😂😂yea he woulda been dead

[night jewel]

What iva did was completely part of his devil fruit abilities, i doubt anyone would be able to recreate that

[mild kite]

Unless Oda wants to

[nimble hinge]

No, it would have been shortened even if he took the standard time it takes

[desert hatch]

oh i wasn’t arguing that’s why it was quicker

[nimble hinge]

Iva just manipulated luffys hormones to increase his own natural resistance to poison and healing, no?

[desert hatch]

yea

[nimble hinge]

It was still luffys body doing the work.

[desert hatch]

that’s why it shortens ur life, same reason as the adrenaline boost, it’s his body doin the work still

[nimble hinge]

Marco describes his ability as increasing your bodies own ability to recover, at the cost of your own energy.

[desert hatch]

he needs a senju bean lol

[night jewel]

yea, we can talk about what ifs all day long and "oh hey oda can always do this", we wont really reach a conclusion that way, nothing really tells us that chopper should be capable of using ivankov's techniques at all, let alone do it better than him, better enough to make zoro heal up already in wayyyyyyy lesser time, because surely, this raid isnt lasting a whole day and there is no point in zoro getting up a day later because of some non existent technique, he will most likely wake up before that just on his own, no techniques needed, all law needs to do is stabilize his condition and he will most likely wake up in 6-12 hours

[desert hatch]

kibi dango = senju bean? imagine 😂😂

[nimble hinge]

Again, not just chopper. I've explicitly mentioned Marco and his ability to improve someone's own recovery process in each post

I've stated I expect it to be a joint healing effort.

[desert hatch]

he would at least need a few hours, even luffy was down for a little after facing kaido that first time and he wasn’t down as bad as zoro

[night jewel]

Marco, as peros pointed out, is exhausted himself. by the looks of it, he cant even heal up his own wing even. He definitely wont be healing up someone else if he cant heal himself up

[nimble hinge]

Just so we're clear, do you believe we won't see Marcos healing abilities come into play during the raid anymore?

[night jewel]

Yea, i believe so. he will help out in the post raid stuff, helping the injured and what not

[nimble hinge]

Fair enough.

[sand sail]

He didn't seem to have any trouble healing, he seemed to just favor that weird one wing form of his for some reason. He uses it earlier as well

[mild kite]

I wasnt trying to say Oda can give someone Ivankov's abilities because "Oda is the author and he can do anything". Just like how Oda came up with something to help Luffy push through the rest of Impel down, He can do the same with Zoro during this raid

[grizzled fog]

The fact that he had bruises that didn’t heal and the wing didn’t return seems to indicate to me that Marco was having trouble healing

I really find saying “oda can make it happen somehow” to be a terrible way to justify something honestly. Sorta just admits that you don’t know how

[mild kite]

This is where comes in

[sand sail]

The wing not returning was something he was doing before that moment though, and he does still actually heal his limb, he just chooses not to sprout the other wing

But the bruises, Marco seems to only heal like bad injuries. Bruises and cuts and scrapes, he tends to keep

[grizzled fog]

Well here at least, I seem to recall him healing most everything when he was able to in MF

[mild kite]

fyi, Marco lost that same wing in chapter 1005 and decided to regenerate it as we can see in chapter 1006

[sand sail]

Yeh, seems to just be something he likes doing. But having said that, it makes sense for exhaustion to lessen his powers too

Not too many devil fruits come with that restriction, I can actually only think of one, but it'd be the perfect limit to his fruit power

[quaint haven]

Does big mom need to kill someone to create a new hommie?

I always thought she needed a soul to make them

[dawn dust]

Ayo anyone kno where to watch One Piece Stampede online for free?

[quaint haven]

Gogoanime

[mild kite]

She doesnt need to kill. She takes a person's lifespan and implants it into an inanimate object

she cant implant the stolen souls (lifespan) to people or corpses tho

[tardy pasture]

Theory: Each Yonko represent different Mythologies

It should be pretty obvious that some yonkos represents some mythologies. We can already confirm Big Mom representing Greek Mythology with the homies being names after greek gods and as for Shanks we can make the assumption that he represents Nordic Mythology bcuz of his ship and carefree nature that was harbored by the Vikings. Kaido hasnt really shown any connection to any mythology but relating him to Japanese mythology seems most logical since his devil fruit is a mythical after all. As for Black Beard? I personally think he's tied to Roman Mythology based off Burgess and Augur but The Ten Titanic captains also pull from French and Spanish legends and as for Blackbeard himself he's ofc based on the legendary Edward Teach. As for Whitebeard the only possible connection to myths I've found is Marco which has the mythic zoan of the pheonix which is from Egypt

Ik it doesnt sound as much of a theory but its smthn

[upper urchin]

interesting theory i see the appeal tho i think its very little to go off also for kaido you can also add the fact that he is from wano which is based on japan

[grim oyster]

Theory: you can train to get your awakening non naturally via training like you can train to get haki and you can train your devil fruit powers like quirks

there might be a certain way to awaken your devil fruit, but its such rare knowledge that only around a couple people have ever known how to do it. devil fruits may also be able to get stronger like quirks, take the barrier barrier fruit, when you start using it a lot you can increase the amount of barrier you can make at one time.

[cedar sinew]

not really a theory. It's already known that DFs' power increase based on user potential and how long one's used it. Awakenings also take a lot of time/experience for the same reason

[grim oyster]

there arent enough awakenings to say that time with devil fruit = awakenings for me

[kind gate]

Mastery of df basically equals awakenings I guess

[grim oyster]

maybe if we see an awakening with kaido and big mom then ig ill say awakening = lots of time with df

[cedar sinew]

I feel that Katakuri and Doflamingo being awakened is plenty enough evidence to prove that pattern

[last halo]

Too little of a sample to be considered a pattern

[grim oyster]

^

[pure raven]

awakened gear 6

[sonic crow]

im not sure how kaido will show his awakening powers, since he's pretty much shown awakening tier powers

like moving the island without physically touching it

and aren't hybrid forms already an awakened form like the minotaur from impel down

[grim oyster]

i thought every zoan comes with a hybrid

[kind gate]

No every zoan can go hybrid

[grizzled fog]

Yea any zoan can do hybrid, it’s not limited to awakened zoans

[sonic crow]

zoan df are pretty straightforward, not sure how much they could be considered awakened

[kind gate]

Crocodile explained a little at impel down

[grim oyster]

chopper monster point

[kind gate]

We just don’t know if his explanation is the full extent

[vestal rampart]

when is the next chapter

[kind gate]

No monster point isn’t awakening

[kind gate]

Soon in a few hours I guess

[vestal rampart]

oh awesome

[grim oyster]

has it been confirmed that it isnt yet?

[vestal rampart]

is it fan translation or actual official translation

[kind gate]

It’s a rumble ball thing and doesn’t at all match crocodiles description of the awakened zoan guards

So Yh I think you can take it as monster point is not awakening

[spring epoch]

Official isn’t until Sunday

[vestal rampart]

oh damn, are the fan translations good tho? @spring epoch

[spring epoch]

they’re all right, I read both

depends on the week tbh but I’d say they’re good

[grim oyster]

what does he say about the impel down gaurds? also rumble ball might be temporary awakening and the guards seem like mindless zombies so their fruits might be 100% awakened

[kind gate]

He says they gained toughness and insane recovery time basically

[grizzled fog]

Guards are probably mindless zombies because of Sadie tbf

[grim oyster]

hmmmmmm, choppers monster point in enies lobby seemed to have lots of dur, the fight ended very quickly so we didnt see its regen capabilities

[sonic crow]

talking about awakened zoan again, isnt morgans confirmed an awakened df user?

does an awakened zoan just makes them control their species?

[kind gate]

Rumble balls are just experimenting monster point is not awakening as far as we can tell

[grizzled fog]

Morgans? He’s confirmed to be a DF user, but awakening was never mentioned

[sonic crow]

ah

[junior cape]

While that may be the case, it's absolutely clear that if Chopper figured out how to Awaken his fruit, he'd have good control over it immediately.

The sheer fact that he can transform into 7 unique forms without rumble is proof of that

Meanwhile most zoans cap out at 3

We know how awakening works for 2/3 DF types. For Paramecia, you gain the ability to transform yourself and the area around you into your substance, but not to the degree of a Logia (see: Doflamingo's "Off-White" attack and Katakuri's "Flowing Mochi") . For Zoan, you gain access to a unique "Monster" form with increased stats across the board, at the cost of potentially going berserk, as well as increased variability among your more common forms (things like Kaku's "Pasta Machine" move).

The only type we aren't sure on is Logia, but I assume that has to do with PERMANENT locational transformation, such as Punk Hazard.

Otherwise, Chopper is basically awakened without actually being """"Awakened""""

While it would be nice to see some of the SH crew awaken their fruit, it won't be necessary as long as they're creative with it

[tardy pasture]

aint this practically confirmed?

everyone that we've seen with an awakened fruit is above 30 years old

and are gassed up for their usage of said fruit

[last halo]

Like

2 people?

[tardy pasture]

Kata and Doffy

[last halo]

Yeah, so it isn't enough to say anything is confirmed.

[tardy pasture]

plus if Im not mistaken Doffy has said smthn about obtaining the awakenings

[pure raven]

Well i was doing maths today so i did some stupid calculation to satisfy my curisoty so dont laugh 😌

And conclusion came that act 3 shoukd end between 1016 to 1019 i.e by june end without break and july end with breaks

[junior cape]

Alright time for a bit of theory-crafting!
What could Brook's awakening do? Well, first, what is his power? It is the ability to revive AS A LONE SOUL and return to your own body, essentially giving you a second life as a walking corpse. Because you are reborn as a soul, not a person, you can exit your body and reenter at will. You can also change the shape and color of your soul at will, as well as speak and move around in it. Expanding upon this, Brook has also managed to merge his skill in music with his soul's shapeshifting emissions in order to create incredible hallucinations among his targets. However, that is a sidegrade of his fruit created by his music, not the other way round. Since his fruit's base power is the ability to float around as a soul and re-inhabit your own corpse, I believe that the Awakened power would be the ability to hijack another's body, even if for only a short period of time, and use it like your own. This would be excellent for infiltrations and espionage, more-so than it already is, as it would allow you to physically interact with things, and bring them back to your own body. It would also allow you to take over OTHER corpses, basically indefinitely.

[pure raven]

It could be possible or choopers df could be special similar to katakuri

[junior cape]

No Katakuri straight up says that he is an awakened user

he's special, yes, but he is awakened

[pure raven]

Yes his is awaked however in the series it has beeen menioned that his df is special parmenica

So i m guessing choppers df could be the same

[junior cape]

and since we don't know what that means, we assume it doesn't have to do with awakening

it could be like mr.3, who is also paramecia

[pure raven]

Well i assune it was like his df giving him logia despite being parmenica type ability

[junior cape]

so like mr 3 then

the ability to create, but not modify existing matter directly, until awakened

[pure raven]

Is he able to generate his body parts?

If yes then it is

[maiden terrace]

brook is gonna become jinwoo

[junior cape]

For reference, they:
Are both Liquid paramecia types
Can generate unknown amounts of substance

Mr.3 is not awakened, Katakuri is, but from a DF standpoint, they are SIMILAR in terms of baseline ability. They can generate, they can mold, they can harden, and they can separate. The major difference is that Katakuri isn't nearly as incompetent

[maiden terrace]

mr.3's df competence is a discount katakuri

[junior cape]

And, I imagine, the reason katakuri can shapeshift DESPITE being paramecia, is that he uses his awakening on himself

[grizzled fog]

Mr 3 is not a special paramecia

[maiden terrace]

Most likely

[grizzled fog]

He’s a regular paramecia, I don’t know why people think he’s different, he just produces wax, that’s it

[junior cape]

no he isn't. that DOESN'T discount the fact that we've seen many similar paramecias out there

[grizzled fog]

Similar to whom

[maiden terrace]

kata

without using his awakening abilities

[grizzled fog]

Eh, Kata is pretty unique

[junior cape]

In terms of base ability, they ability to just generate and mold a substance, we've seen many. Katakuri, Doflamingo, Perorin, Opera, Cracker, Kalifa, Barto

[maiden terrace]

^

[grizzled fog]

Mr 3 is not like Katakuri. He’s a very standard paramecia, he’s generates wax. That’s literally it

His body is not made of wax, that’s what makes him different

[junior cape]

YES, AND KATAKURI GENERATES MOCHI. He's special because he's actually competent and has tons of experience and experimentation under his belt.

[grizzled fog]

No? He’s special because his body is also made of mochi lol

[junior cape]

So is luffy

[grizzled fog]

He can’t produce it

Kata can do BOTH.
Luffy’s body is rubber, he cannot produce it.
Mr 3 can produce it but his body is not made of wax

[junior cape]

Doflamingo can produce string from his body, as well as shapeshift, and he's awakened. He is not deemed a "special" paramecia

[grizzled fog]

Yes of course he can produce it, but his body itself isn’t made of it

[junior cape]

it literally is

[grizzled fog]

It’s not. Provide evidence

[junior cape]

he literally got his head cut off and reattached it like it was nothing

[grizzled fog]

Dude...........did you miss that that was a clone?

Literally a string clone lol

[dark palm]

@hearty tapir keep this channel serious

[maiden terrace]

Doffy is made of strings

When he uses his awakening of course

[dark palm]

no, he is not

[maiden terrace]

I mean we don't know, it's not clearly stated. But if it's not stated we could say no or even yes

[dark palm]

we have no reason to believe he is

considering it was never shown

[junior cape]

I'm just going to assume that being a "special" paramecia doesn't mean you can manipulate your body off the bat, but rather you can shapeshift yourself with your awakened powers.

I'm sure if Doffy wanted to, and someone pointed it out to him, he could probably do it

Same with Mr.3, if he weren't an idiot

[grizzled fog]

I mean you can assume doffy can do that if you want, but just know there’s 0 evidence that he’s capable of that

[junior cape]

there's also 0 evidence to say he cant

[maiden terrace]

Agree to disagree

[grizzled fog]

That’s not how you prove something lol

[worthy zinc]

what are you guys talking about?

[grizzled fog]

Burden of proof is on you, you don’t just get to say “no evidence he can’t”

[worthy zinc]

can i get an answer

sry for disturbing but

[errant nova]

Is it just me or was 1011 short 😭

[junior cape]

Alright
Let's look at what we know:
Both Doffy and Kata are generator-type paramecias
Both are incredibly strong and incredibly smart
Both have awakened their powers, allowing them to modify things that were previously outside their control
Katakuri has constantly strived to be "Perfect", much to his own detriment, leading him to get a TON more battle experience than he needed to
Doflamingo is incredibly cunning, and definitely knows how to adapt in a fight, meaning if he saw someone pulling a new trick on him, he would definitely try to counter it in a new way

Based on all that, I believe that Doflamingo could do the shapeshifting thing by trying to use his awakened powers on himself.

Especially if you put him in a fight against Katakuri, who may be doing it CONSTANTLY

[grizzled fog]

So you believe that every single time Katakuri manipulates his own body, he’s using his own awakening on himself?

[junior cape]

yes

because awakened paramecias like him and doffy can manipulate their substance however they wish, even if they just made it out of say a nearby building. It is entirely possible that he's doing it on himself, constantly, to avoid being hit.

Zeus is gonna get rejected by Big Mom, since she just got this new homie Hera. As such, Nami has a real shot of keeping hold of Zeus permanently this time.

Also I think Killer vs. Hawkins will end in a draw. I say this because, just like Bege, they're both interesting characters that Oda has put a lot of time into, and may be useful in stories to come. Killing off one of them now would just be a big disappointment.

[grizzled fog]

Winner doesn’t have to kill the other

I do feel like Hawkins will probably fade out after wano sadly, as much as I don’t want him to

I wanted Hawkins to join kid’s fleet, but now that he seems to be remaining on kaido’s side that’s probably not happening

[junior cape]

maybe he'll show up again later, as a bystander

like, "Oh we were just leaving, don't mind us" that kinda deal

Also, one thing I noticed here, is that the new Homie Hera isn't a cloud. She's a Lightning bolt.

This is within expectations, of course, as BM can personify intangible objects, such as fire

And I know it's a fan translation, but it looks confirmed that only smile-users can be taken over by the dango

[upbeat zealot]

Otama mvp wano yo

[little mortar]

Everyone's gangsta until captain kidd knock out tama

[keen portal]

[rugged briar]

Nah I could see it lol

Kidd ironically exudes "fuck dem kids" energy

[fathom matrix]

I think being a special paramecia, means you have the qualities of a logia, but it's not a natural substance.

So the candy candy, and jelly jelly fruits from those 2 one piece movies, would be classified as special paramecias, because they act like logias, but they're not natural (and I think at the time, Oda was still experimenting on DF classfications and specifics, the I think the anime staff just asked for permission on making those fruits and probably didn't ask about classifications, and it wasn't until Katakuri, that he decided "yaknow what, logias are meant to be natural, mochi isn't. Plus I want him to one up Luffy", hence the retcon)

Or, let's say Luffy's fruit didn't turn him into rubber permantly, but he can choose when to go into or out of it, and no matter if he gets ripped apart or sliced, he can put himself back together, or stretch back into a new form. That would be a special paramecia.

an even better example is if there's a plastic devil fruit, where again, it acted the same way as a logia, but plastic is not natural.

So in short, it's an unnatural logia

[maiden terrace]

Alot of the paramecia fruit are unnatural

[fathom matrix]

yes and no, yeah

there are "normal" or "natural" ones, they just can't become those elements or aspects in carnate or act like a logia.

Like, gravity is natural, but Fujirota can't become gravity.

[maiden terrace]

Yeah

[brazen lantern]

Of all ways they chose to big mom to betray kaido 😂

[weary cliff]

I'm a huge fan. Hitting her head again to revert to Olin would be too generic. This shows us she's more dynamic than anticipated, and makes a lot of sense for a character called Big Mom to have an actual motherly side somewhere.

It makes the theory of Big Mom retiring that much more likely for me now that it doesnt rely on permanent amnesia

[brazen lantern]

But of all ways they chose I don't think anyone could have guessed that coming

[weary cliff]

Yup. Its unexpected but not at all contrived. One little line from Prometheus is all it takes to say "oh that makes sense". Odo not a hack this week

[prisma vault]

Why is she to absolutely terrible to her own kids then lol

[dark palm]

she's not

[tired osprey]

i always thought it was mama saying she will kill her one day lol

[prisma vault]

Was hera born directly of kaidos lightning? Do you think she will be inherently more powerful or draw off kaidos soul at all?

[stuck crypt]

I don't think hera has any relation to kaido's lightning I think it is entirely big mom on this one

[shadow jetty]

Tokis Prophecy still hasn't come true so I'm still holding out for that Kanjuro redemption and for Doji to be alive

Unless like. Oda is gonna go the easy route and say "oooo the nine samurai Toki predicted were the straw hats the whole time!!"

[dark palm]

well, it's not like it exactly has to come true

she wasn't predicting the future or anything

[shadow jetty]

Trueeee

I think I just like Kanjuro and I want him back LMAO

Please oda sir I want my dumbass goofy lookin artist pal back this literally makes no sense

[fathom matrix]

can't be 9, if Jinebei's the 10th

[shadow jetty]

Oh shit ur right

I completely forgot about Jinbe lmaoooo

[fathom matrix]

Did she says they'd succeed? Cause if not, it could be taken as those 9 samurai will return to start the rebellion and face kaido, but they're not the heroes to end him or orochi

[spark wagon]

how could you forget 30 cover pages of jinbe looking confused or surprised at random objects?

[shadow jetty]

Classic one piece reactionary

[fresh galleon]

is there any good theories on what tokis prophecy could mean?

[spark wagon]

there wasn't any. she was just high as shit

fell off a roof

[pure raven]

Well guys i always wondered as why didnt the world govt took all 4 of the road poneglyphs (i.e red ones) and why didnt they went to laugh tale and took whatever there might be at the laugh tale whether treasure or the poneglyphs or the joyboys story and the void centuary story

However seeing how they didnt took it could be assumed that they couldnt bring it with them or destroy it (maybe cause they want it or it couldnt be destroyed ) however wg not being able to take the treasure with tgem means that it is too big unmoveable or wg are not able to move it on ships

I believe this one that for 700 yrs wg building a bridge for what purpos ?

Maybe to connect laughtale and to move the items from there to merijois or some other palce.

.

Or what possible reasons could be there to make a bridge so long for 700 years do suggest

[pure raven]

[delicate sedge]

It could simply be a bridge that was suposed to conect to an island that does not exist anymore, or just celestial dragon being an ashole. But as you say i think it probably was made to connect to somewhere important

[sturdy hawk]

Olin's persona is very reminiscent of 5 year old Linlin. In fact, it highlights how she was born kind but turned evil due to outside factors like Streusen or Mother Carmel's lack of teachings.

I think that seeing the cliffhanger of Ulti being pissed, something important is going to happen with her. Knowing all the elements that were introduced, we can deduce that Ulti is a hot-headed brat just like Luffy that isn't afraid to attack her full power whenever she sees her friend getting hurt. Her main moveset is the headbutt which has been portrayed to be especially strong even when she is a human (she clashed with Luffy at the start of Onigashima).
One other important introduced element is Big Mom's amnesia, and also the way her memories got triggered by Queen as a big chunky dino falling onto her head.

I believe that Ulti will headbutt her really hard and trigger amnesia, but since we are in enemy territory and some people already know what she desires most, she will be easily manipulated as a kind hearted person by the enemis, mirroring her relationship with Streusen, while forgetting about Tama and the Big Mom pirates

@ancient vault

Some of the referenced material

[ancient vault]

Yeah I can definitely see that happening. Gonna repeat myself here, I think its better than BM going to basically solo the entire beast pirate crew cause shes pissed

[sturdy hawk]

Nah Oda would never let that happen

[ancient vault]

yeah

[sturdy hawk]

Also another thing, instead of being manipulated she could also just get attacked by Kidd and she will just react to him

[languid rune]

So do you guys think big mom will join the alliance

[sturdy hawk]

Nah

[languid rune]

Same I think she’ll betray kaido but not join the alliance

[gentle pivot]

i feel like a few of the scabbards will die

[languid rune]

Ashura dojis already dead I think.

[gentle pivot]

prob

[languid rune]

And I feel like dog storm might die if he fights jack

[gentle pivot]

it has not been confirmed or shown yet

i feel like kinemon will die, i dunno how but i just have a gut feeling

[languid rune]

Same that would also cause a lot of emotional impact

[gentle pivot]

eh im not really attached to the kinemon to much, i would be sad but it wouldnt hit has hard as the previous deaths/moments in the series

[neat inlet]

i was thinking, when Hawkins says there's 1% chance of success, does it means what he does now is aiding that 1% chance to succeed, maybe?

so maybe he had to get killer busy so kidd could be useful for whatever that "1%" scenario is?

[visual merlin]

maybe, though I don't see how stalling killer would help kidd

[neat inlet]

i mean, nobody predicted big mom flying the worst-gen match to 1HKO page one either lol

[visual merlin]

yea I guess?

[neat inlet]

maybe there is something important about to happen related to Kidd which we just don't know yet, maybe delay someone else who might be trouble for the Kaido-Luffy battle? who knows

[visual merlin]

but that doesn't tell me what stalling killer does to help

[neat inlet]

he aims for big mom, but honestly i doubt if he is gonna be the one to take her down

what's the real aim then? what is his role if big mom is just a red herring?

[hollow rapids]

The reason why kaido says "Looks like you're enjoying this fight. The greater the risk, the wider your smile... And the wider your smile... right?" And trails off at the end is alluding to the fact that all members of the D. family die smiling

[neat inlet]

according to reddit the actual quote should be-

Kaido*: Looks like you're enjoying this fight...*
The more desperate situation you're thrown into, the more you laugh.
And the more you laugh, you......

laughing is the keyword here basically, not just a smile- a laugh

[kind gate]

From TCB

Idk about laughing

[neat inlet]

hm i can't post pictures

but that's the link- https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/mwpsdv/one_piece_chapter_1011/gvjm4yc?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

the comment mentions sandman too, and sandman said "laugh", TCB decided to stay with "smile", so it seems

[dark palm]

!pics

[lone hedge]

Get a role (pirate/revo/marine/civilian) in #old-role-info to be able to post pictures!

[dark palm]

laugh/smile is pretty fluid there

I think both imply the same meaning

[neat inlet]

but that's an important key word, because of "laugh tale"- laughing is related to the will of D perhaps, smiling is maybe just a "evolution" of the laugh

[dark palm]

it's more to show his determination

and how he's enjoying the fight

[neat inlet]

imagine luffy meets a situation in a fight he starts to laugh, not just smile

[maiden terrace]

i agree

[neat inlet]

and kaido kinda allude that "the greater your smile/laugh, the more...." whatever happens

when luffy laugh something should start happening, that's what he's saying

[kind gate]

Prolly the stronger he is or the greater his will

[neat inlet]

that's a given, we know that pretty much

but what's the end-point? when does that "evolution" stops?

we also got something similar from katakuri

luffy realized he had to fight strong enemies cuz that's the only way he can gets stronger

-- but stronger to what point exactly? when do we know he's reached his goal? i think Kaido is saying here- "when luffy laugh during battle"

[maiden terrace]

the wider your smile the freer you'll be --> luffy starts laughing

or something

[neat inlet]

another theory i've got- since we know some characters in the one piece world can predict the future (madam shyarly), would it be out of question if "JoyBoy" isn't a character from the past, but perhaps a character from the future? when roger says he wishes he could've been in his era- could he means a future era?

so we basically are following the joyboy story right now?

even oden's wife has a prediction on the future

[maiden terrace]

Maybe but since Luffy is most likely joyboy it wouldn't make sense

[neat inlet]

why is it so?

do we know joyboy is a past character and not future character for certain?

[maiden terrace]

Wait sorry i forgot about the whole will of the joyboy thing

Joyboy is a person and luffy has inherited their will, we aren't sure if it could be the future or the past

[pure raven]

Yeah it seems so

And the birdge is under construction for 700 years meaning it must smth very important

Who knows what these cd might be planning

[neat inlet]

also that important note-

Joy Boy made a promise with the residents of Fish-Man Island 900 years ago, but since the Poneglyphs were invented by the Kozuki Family 800 years ago, his letter of apology was written at least a century later. If the letter was written by Joy Boy himself, he had a lifespan of at least 100 years.

or.... maybe it was someone with time travel ability? or future prediction?

[maiden terrace]

maybe both?

[fallow knot]

I think there will be 11 strawhats after wano.reason is on colourspread of chapter 1011 Brook's hat no is 9.and he is 9th strawhats nd on his pants there were no 1 to 11

[pure raven]

Has it been mentioned 900 years ago?
Will have to check

[neat inlet]

https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Joy_Boy

[maiden terrace]

Solid theory

[neat inlet]

if we look deeper on it, there's a white "12" on the pants too

[fallow knot]

I guess yamato going to be 11th

[neat inlet]

next to his shoe

[pure raven]

Yeah 10 are already in the sh
1 1 is the figbt bte yamato and carrot

[fallow knot]

It's not showing clearly maybe 12th starwhats in next arc

[neat inlet]

however, the "12" is the only number on the pants colored white, meaning it might not imply anything, the 11 is yellow tho, following the patterns

[fallow knot]

My bet on yamato

[maiden terrace]

Same

[pure raven]

Yeah

[neat inlet]

even if yamato joins, kinda like oden- he will leave the ship eventually

[maiden terrace]

My headcannon theory as well

[hollow rapids]

Smile is more relevant here, luffy has never laughed once this fight

[neat inlet]

rough theory- it's zeus

[maiden terrace]

this is the first? well soon atleast

[pure raven]

Here its has been mentioned during blank centyary that would mean 800 years ago

[hollow rapids]

First what

[fallow knot]

And on Frank's shoulder we can see bf- *no is not shown yet. Maybe his upgraded version after wano

[maiden terrace]

It's just BF IRC

wait no there is a hyphen nevermind

[neat inlet]

yeah but from smile -> laugh, there might be some power gap. if i'm not mistaken, roger and whitebeard laughed after their clash, right?

[hollow rapids]

Yeah that could be possible

[neat inlet]

hm, i wonder why the onepiece wiki got it wrong then

[pure raven]

Wikia not acurate

Many people edit it so prone to error

Always recheck from manga pages

[pastel slate]

who is hera?

[tired osprey]

Zeus's gf

[pure raven]

[fallow knot]

Is there a chances of nami getting smoothie fruit

[pastel slate]

is she more op than zeus

[maiden terrace]

what is the smoothie fruit

[pure raven]

What are possible duty that one need in a pirate group

Ex musician navigator sailsman carpanter

If there could be some additional gbat sh dont have then we can assume possible person to join sh as 12

[tired osprey]

She knocked kamazo and his captain far away

[maiden terrace]

i can't think of anymore that haven't already been filled

yeah i can't think of anything

[fallow knot]

Wrong wring fruit

[pure raven]

Dancer ?

[maiden terrace]

i forgot, what are the powers?

[fallow knot]

Squeeze. She can squeeze all juices or fluid out of body and can grow big

[maiden terrace]

Do you have a theory as to why she will get the fruit

[sturdy glen]

is page one dead?

[fallow knot]

Just guessing cause of colorspread.

[fallow knot]

Not so soon

[tired osprey]

Soul pocus

[maiden terrace]

Page may not be dead but seriously seriously seriously seriously critically injured

literally conq haki punched

[fallow knot]

Injured enough to trigger ulti vs bigmom

[maiden terrace]

ye

[fallow knot]

So basically kaido's forces going to be 0 bcoz of otama and bigmom alliance

[maiden terrace]

otama and bigmom will actually destroy kaido's army unironically

[vestal bone]

Crazy it happened ngl

Who could've guessed that big mom allies with otama

[clever pebble]

man bigmom has a lot of psychology conditions

[fallow knot]

It will be enough for oda to justify us how luffy going to win wano

[sturdy glen]

you guys think kaido will turn into a nice guy after fighting with luffy?

[scarlet comet]

kaido plz nakama

[fallow knot]

If he wanted he can kill luffy already. But he gave him chances to grow stronger and fight with him equally.

It's enough for him playing nice already

[pure raven]

Luffy after returning from laughtale

I have got op a war will happen becime my nakama

Kaido ok i wanted a war

[sturdy glen]

but that means luffy has to kill/beat kaido then? but if shanks cant even do it then how is luffy doing it?

[pure raven]

Shanks was able to do it thats why he returned to marineford unharmed

[sturdy glen]

shanks only kept him away, not actually beat him

if i remember correctly

[maiden terrace]

maybe actually, he won't be a nice guy but he will respect luffy and probably get out of wano

[maiden terrace]

Kaido tsundere

[scarlet comet]

if all fails god usopp to mid diff kaido

[maiden terrace]

mid diff? you crazy

god usopp does not need to even try easy diff

[fallow knot]

Will be interesting to watch to God usopp giving last shot to kaido😂

[fallow knot]

They just fought no one ever tried to kill him. We just know tht Marines captured him. But we don't know tht they seriously fight or not

[fallow knot]

Yeah tht could be a way after their fight. He will die trying saving luffy and others from marines

[warm gust]

wasn't it explicitly mentioned that the Marines tried to kill Kaido in tons of ways, but it always failed?

[pure raven]

Yes

Even he himself failed to kill himself

.

Luffy and kaido now fighting till their herts content

Hope 1 chaps solely for these 2 guys

[maiden terrace]

^^^^

[fallow knot]

Tried to kill himself by hanging and piercing sword. Not going to do work if he fights with admirals3v1 he definitely will die tht for sure

[fallow knot]

The fight just started.

[fluid lava]

I find it interesting big mom finds destroying a town that was kind to her unforgivable but she’s murdered her own children

Does she know she killed her kid?

[vestal bone]

Doubt she cares

[fallow knot]

She has some split personality issues. Tht is sick

[fluid lava]

Probably I mean if she’s capable of eating her family without even knowing about it she might honestly not even be aware of all the horrific things she’s done

[sturdy hawk]

She didnt kill any kid

[fallow knot]

Ahe took one of his child life soul in whole cake island

[fluid lava]

She did kill one of her sons in whole cake island when she was on a hunger rampage

[sturdy hawk]

He is still alive

[fluid lava]

How can he be alive if she took his soul?

[vestal bone]

Its one piece

[sturdy hawk]

They put it back

[fallow knot]

Yes but u can't deny tht fact she literally murdered him

[fluid lava]

When did they put it back?

[sturdy hawk]

Dunno but he is alive lol

[fallow knot]

After the event the life soul returned to his body

[fluid lava]

Well point is big mom probably isn’t aware of what she does when she’s hungry

[sturdy hawk]

Yea

[fluid lava]

I genuinely wonder if redeeming her is even possible for oda because right now he’s seemingly trying to make her an empathetic figure

[fallow knot]

Simly personality issues.The only man who can cure her is usoopp with his 5000 tonn hammer on her head

[sturdy hawk]

Uh, she always was

[fluid lava]

Eh somewhat but all of that was kind of overshadowed by her becoming a tyrant thanks to streusen and just genuinely being a total monster who eats people and destroyed a village in elbaf as a child

[sturdy hawk]

She still has that part of her, but yea its overshadowed

[fallow knot]

Due to punk hazard incident chopper have some idea of her sickness. I m sure he can treat her

[fluid lava]

I actually kind of hope so big mom being redeemed is far more interesting than just like killing her off or beating her down

[fallow knot]

Yes

[weary cliff]

BM follows to Elbaf, not to kill Luffy but to make amends

What a twist

[fallow knot]

She can

[pure raven]

[mellow silo]

Big mom goes to elbaph remembers or is told everything and somehow releases the souls of those she took like mother caramel?

[fluid lava]

Imagine big mom redeeming herself and the straw hats and big mom pirates end up on friendly terms

That would be weird considering the events of whole cake island

[languid rune]

I doubt that would happen

[mellow silo]

I don’t think she becomes friendly with the sh

But if she does turn up in elbaph then she will find out about her childhood for sure

[fallow knot]

Of it can happen pedro would be alive

[modern grove]

Bigmom Will most likely backstab kaido after kaido knocks luffy out and after she wants to also kill luffy tama Will safe him by pleading not to kill him. She will leave wano but is still enemies with the strawhats.

[dusky delta]

Oi guys
Surprise me wit your craziest theories

[drifting lake]

Enel gonna show up in wano

[plucky hill]

[dusky delta]

Damn

[mellow silo]

And the world thinks Luffy did whatever big mom does to kaido

[haughty wharf]

I think next arc will be recuse arc they will try save sabo from execution but this time luffy will able to save his brother

[haughty wharf]

Treat who

[fallow knot]

Bigmom hungerpan

I think blackbeard aiming for road poneglyph right now

[ocean knot]

the next arc after wano will 100% either be a filler, elbaf, or the "last war arc" oda talked about and luffys bounty after wano would most likley be around 3 - 5 billion

[light python]

hopefully a short arc

like zou

[ocean knot]

it will prob be a filler

cause after every big arc theres a little arc or a filler oda tens to do it alot.

[light python]

i dont consider anything in the manga filler ... but ya i get what you mean

[zinc latch]

Hmm I can't talk in spoilers???

[night jewel]

yea. the chapter is out so you can talk in #manga or #also-manga now

also, wrong channel, this is the channel for manga related theories

[ember trench]

Jaya, Thriller Bark, Punk Hazard, Zou

We are too deep in the story for any side adventures

And usually things don’t just go into something totally unrelated to whatever is coming next after a big arc

Arc after Wano will probably be to bridge the aftermath of this saga into the final events of the series

Maybe an arc with Shanks

[light python]

that'd be awesome

[vestal rampart]

just read the recent chapter, pretty good chapter tbh. wouldve liked to see a little more conquerors haki action though