manga-theories

[icy dagger]

They’ve made it pretty explicit to us, it is to retain the “balance” within the world and to prevent chaos by any means necessary. That means preserving the world as much as possible while retaining the balance.

Imus goal is not “destroy the world” and it’s pretty fucking obvious at this point. There’s no point in being the king of nobody. He’s using Uranus as a sort of extreme measure against very specific threats. I seriously doubt he’s just gonna spam that shit on random ass islands just to make the sea lvl rise. It’s just an unfortunate side effect of the weapon.

That being said, a pretty major question comes up, why do they want to stop nika from awakening? The fruit isn’t THAT strong, and if it was purely strength they would’ve highlighted it.

It isn’t just the existence of nika being a freerer of slaves because they seemed way more insistent in eradicating it as a threat. And it isn’t like liberators don’t exist in the modern era.

Elbaf has given us the pretty explicit answer, Nika himself isn’t the threat, rather he is the heralding of the world’s end. Whether or not that goes in his favor or not (Second World). Which puts into perspective how nuanced the concept of nika is at this point, it’s no longer just “he’s good guy who frees people”, but rather a figure that changes with the ages, hence the 3 interpretations and 3 worlds

And imu is extremely aware of this, he knows about the cycle since he’s lived long enough to see it occur once before. So in a way he’s doing everything he can to stop a threat that doesn’t just threaten his power alone, but threatens to destroy all of humanity as we know it

[raw laurel]

Imu I think represents the idea of complete control

[broken seal]

Yes, Imu is the ultimate Tyrant. Nika is dangerous to the WG not because Nika might destroy the world, but because the idea of freedom threatens Imu’s control.

It’s true that resistance never fully died out. However Nika has the potential to spark hope in the oppressed the whole world over. It’s a threat of a different magnitude.

The state of the world, and Imu’s willingness to use the ancient weapon even now suggests doesn’t care to save anything besides his own power. It could very well be that he’d rather drown the world than lose his throne.

There could originally have been a well-intentioned component of maintaining order for the sake of humanity. And that is something people on the WG side tells themselves. The people at the top, though, are obsessed with power for the sake of power

[fringe hemlock]

idk, the way Gunko talks it seems like Imu looks forward to drowning the world, resetting the surface

[wild vector]

What if this was Zoro witnessing death coming to take him.

The damage he took before nearly incapacitated him. And the medicine he took was said to be so double the damage as a side effect.

What if Zoro made a deal with death to not be taken till Luffy becomes pirate king.

Then we could see brooks awakening be used to take zoros place in the afterlife.

I don't see who it could be if the death was a devil fruit. Or why oda didn't expand on this at all, besides Zoro being in a near death state next time we see him.

This could also give a reason for why brook saw what went down with Kuma, Zoro and Sanji.

The tone dial leaves the option open for brook not getting his dream accomplished. Instead he would give his second life for Luffy by reviving Zoro.

[remote silo]

I’ve pondered on this for an age, too. A bargain being made would definitely track. Though this would make Luffy wanna fight Death if he found out.

I had wondered if it had anything to do with his conq haki proclamation to be the king of hell. It’s still such a mysterious power. I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s more layers like this to it

[wild vector]

This isn't an enemy Luffy can fight. I also don't think it has anything do with with what he said.

Kuma said he was giving him a glimpse of hell and the next time he got that close to death he saw a reaper. Seems fishy.

[remote silo]

Good point on Kuma. And I’m aware Luffy can’t fight it, but you try telling that to Luffy

[errant terrace]

but knowing his backstory, kuma could just be playing towards the pain he endured in the church, because it is imaginable that luffys pain in that fight was "less" than what he endured regularly

I think the reaper thing ties more towards zoro's lineage, since he doesn't seem to have problems with cursed swords or swords like enma, it could be reasonable that he has some ties somehow

[remote silo]

Oda does love his double and triple meanings tbf. It is interesting how after this arc, we get to experience Luffy's hell firsthand. By the time we reach Kaido, hell is our home terf. And Zoro has claimed it

[raw laurel]

So what happened to you shanks is shamrock theory ?

[last estuary]

ONE PIECE: The Solution to Flooding

I drew some inspiration from a movie that I watched recently... There has been slight changes because this channel doesn't allow talking about other series nor make any correlation to it. **This is spoiler free!!! **Feel free to dm me for more details and I will also provide panels supporting this idea. FYI, l also need to reread One Piece because there might be more evidence that are present for or against this theory. Here goes:

Several major characters like Roger, Whitebeard and Oden have mentioned and I quote, “turning the world upside down.” Perhaps it’s not just a metaphor. Perhaps it’s something that will actually happen.

The world of One Piece is already flooding. A mere one-meter rise in sea level has rendered some islands uninhabitable. Vegapunk declares with unwavering conviction that the ancient weapons will be fired once more, bringing about a flood that will ultimately engulf the world as they know it. When the Ancient Weapons are used again in the final war, the sea level will rise even higher. For example, Doflamingo said, "most cities in the world will be wiped out with an extra five meters of water." Vegapunk also said the fate of the world lies in the hands of whoever finds the One Piece; perhaps because it holds the key to reversing this catastrophe.

Some fans has joke theories that the One Piece might be something absurd, like a giant toilet designed to “flush” or unclog the sea. But maybe that idea isn't so far-fetched. Maybe turning the world upside down is the real solution. If the world were to turn upside down, what now lies under the sea would arise, restoring the sunken islands to the surface.

This concept also connects to the legend of Davy Jones’ Locker where everything that lost to the sea is said to belong to him. In One Piece, both Fishman Island and Noah lie deep beneath the sea. Luffy was seconds away from completely destroying the ship. Since Noah is beyond commission, and the Sea Kings aren't sure whether it is even fixable, Luffy might fulfill Joyboy’s promise through another mean; by bringing the surface to Fishman Island like flipping the world like a pancake and letting gravity do the work which will cause the water to flow down and those elevated landmarks will float on top.

Joyboy sought to preserve the Ancient Weapons for the future, while Lily took on the task of scattering the Poneglyphs across the world. What if everything claimed by Davy Jones’ Locker also serves as a form of preservation? After all, the Locker is a kind of a storage, and in that sense, all three figures may be connected through their roles as guardians of lost or hidden things, with Jones, himself, speculated to be around from the same era, and carries the moniker "D."

Timing is another crucial theme. Roger said they were too early, while Toki sent Momo and the others twenty years into the future for a reason. The Sea Kings are waiting for the promised time. It all fits the image of an hourglass i.e. when you flip it, what was on top falls to the bottom, and what was below rises to the top. Perhaps the same thing will happen to the world. Once the landmarks are restored, commuting around will be easier and more convenient without any limitations of the current geography.

Luffy's power is supposedly only limited by the user's imagination, therefore it is easy to imagine a world where he bends reality itself through the power of the One Piece. The Gorosei described it as “the most ridiculous power in the world,” which aligns perfectly with the absurdity of such an outcome. Luffy is also fixated on creating a world where his friends can eat as much as they like.

.

Even smaller details seem to foreshadow this theme: Imu flipping the game board pieces, or Shanks and Buggy were arguing about which pole was colder; subtle hints at a world that's destined to be inverted where the South becomes North and vice versa, proving both of them were somewhat correct. I feel like there are nuance to this but these are the only things I could muster up, so far.

Redline, the final symbol of oppression, is going to be destroyed thus converging the sea to become one continuous body of water.
Fishman Island and other sunken lands will rise into the sunlight. The thematic here being Luffy, the Sun God, is leading them to dawn.
The world will become whole again and the barriers between peoples will finally disappear thus they're free to share their culture and traditions.

In conclusion, One Piece is far more than what I’ve just described; ultimately, it serves as a tool to undo centuries of the World Government’s oppression. This is why they fear the impending great war and everything it represents. It is also a means to an end — quite literally, the key to turning the world upside down and saving it from drowning. Such an act would fulfill Joyboy’s ancient promise, grant Luffy the freedom he has always sought, and explains why Roger laughed upon uncovering the truth. It may sound absurd, but in the world of One Piece, perhaps the most ridiculous idea is the one that makes perfect sense.

[wild vector]

I really doubt that. When Franky takes Zoro to chopper he comments on how he's not breathing or moving. Forgot which.

[raw laurel]

I think smoker might join the crew

[wild vector]

He's got his place as next fleet admiral of the new navy.

Vivi for next and final member!

[remote silo]

Smoker is this gen’s Garp imo. Definitely see him as an ally again, even tho I don’t personally think he’d join the crew or be offered to begin with

[turbid trail]

This gens garp is definitely Kuzan, and will be Koby in luffys

[remote silo]

Garp is too loyal a lapdog to have the gumption to quit. But also I just mean that there are other connective tissue between Smoker and Garp that make a stronger case.

Tell me which person did which, for example:

• Fought alongside the future king of the pirates
• Belligerent to higher ups
• Has personal sense of justice rather than the Navy's
• Prepping next generation for his brand of justice

not to mention Garp and Roger met multiple times throughout their adventures, similar to Smoker and Luffy

[fierce thorn]

I've had an alternate view of the harleys line "They will never meet again" I and pretty much everyone I've seen have a theory it could be about people. But a thought crossed my mind this morning and it really made me think.

What if "They will surely meet again" isn't referring to a person but the world oceans.

We all keep wondering what the bridges are being built for but what if they are being build to control the water flow of the world and make the sea's unable to be sailed on. We know the WG have made use structures to do similar things before by using the gates of justice to control water flow.

So my theory are these bridges are just another structure like the gates of justice designed to control the currents.

This would mean that when "they meet again" the seas will create the all blue (This is also why it can't be found because currently it doesn't exist due the the red line splitting the sea.

[icy dagger]

I pretty fundamentally disagree with the notion that everyone at the top do this purely for power alone. The gorosei have shown actual care and concern for the lives of others. And have actively done everything in their power to PREVENT the world from ending. Because it fundamentally makes no sense if they intend to rule it.

Like actually think about this, if they flood the world, there is no world to rule, PERIOD. They certainly don’t intend to have humans on the red line outside of slaves, so killing everyone off just makes no sense if it’s about retaining shit

[mighty kayak]

Damn WHAT DID I MISS I'm new here

[fierce thorn]

I disagree with this too, Vegapunk himself said he wasn't sure which side started the war and which side was correct. If Imu was purely a tyrant it would be a lot more clear cut. It's implied that what Imu did was the right action for their side/views.

I also find the relationship between the gorosei and Imu interesting, to me it seems/ how I interoperate things is as if Imu has a sickness.

As for their ruthlessness, I honestly feel it's that original idea of peace Imu had that over time became twisted through longevity of having to fight the same war for over 800 years.

[broken seal]

Concern for the lives of others? The holy land is built on the suffering of slaves. Look at the killing contests like God Valley. Or Saturn referring to people as insects. They do not care. The populace is only important to them as long as they can squeeze tribute out of them

You can look at it like a factory chicken farm owner. They have a vested interest in maintaining their livestock, but they don’t have regard for any of the thousands of birds locked in place. Human lives are a commodity to the gorosei

[broken seal]

Vegepunk made that statement because he does not have the complete picture. He is a scientist, he does not jump to conclusions. Even if what he knows points 99% towards one side being evil and in the wrong, he’s not going to make a declaration as if he’s certain.

Even despite that, and the fact that the WG was his benefactor, he still took a stand against them based on what he understood. That is telling enough.

Again, I’ll agree that there is nuance to the start of the conflict. It’s your classic safety vs freedom dilemma. But as it’s expanded into the modern day, one side has fully devolved into evil and control

[broken seal]

Trying to excuse anything the gorosei have done is misguided at best, but at a time when actual tyranny is on the rise, this kind of rhetoric can hurt real people.

[stable hound]

Impel Down was once a surface ground in the One Piece, I mean there isn't any way to build prisons like that especially Impel Down surrouned by massive Sea Beasts. And you know if this was still a prison even for like 800 years ago it was prob made to eliminate/hunt races like Buccaneer and Lunarian.

[icy dagger]

When imu proposes destroying lulusia, the gorosei made suggestions of destroying some uninhabited islands, and were shocked when imu suggested a populated nation. To the point where they asked him if he really wanted to kill all those people

The point of the gorosei and imu is that they actively attempt to separate themselves from humans, but ultimately they have the capability of having very human desires and emotions.

Saturns greatest folly was his passion for science, which ultimately got him killed by Imu, just as a example

It’s better to say that they’re more jaded than straight up trying to make the OP world virtually extinct. Which again, they’ve actively been working towards avoiding

[icy dagger]

Except he was giving his opinion during several parts of the speech

VP when speaking on facts is impartial yes, but he is very much so aware that the WG can and have done horrible things that are inexcusable. Hell the entire story has constantly been emphasizing this point for ages

Why would this even be a question asked? What is the point from Oda’s perspective in framing the conflict as anything but good guy vs bad guy

[broken seal]

No, they didn’t. They didn’t even protest the idea. Where did that happen

[broken seal]

People are resources. An uninhabited island is fewer resources lost. But they accept it very much immediately. I don’t see anyone shedding tears here

[icy dagger]

Because they can’t exactly go against the guy who can kill them in an instant?

[broken seal]

But do they show any personal concern even. It’s just business

[icy dagger]

And you’re arguing resources, despite the fact that the island was literally rebelling against them at this time. They essentially were the enemy, and they STILL hesitated

[broken seal]

Islands rebel and are reclaimed. Even if they aren’t, that’s slave fodder.

[icy dagger]

Slave fodder they can get from the other 99% of the population, because you cannot deny when told to become their slave

Again I’m not even arguing the WG value humanity above all else, I’m arguing that they see value in its existence in the first place

Because genuinely what is the benefit of killing everyone

[broken seal]

Which is why at the end of the day it’s not a big deal to them. It’s very much a “are you sure boss, we can use that island. No? Moving on then” reaction

[icy dagger]

Except they never proposed a reason for preserving the island, they solely spoke about the population there

Again, why would they protest in the first place if it has no meaning or value

Why do everything in your power to prevent the world from being destroyed, only to secretly want to do it yourself

It fundamentally makes no sense, there is zero benefit or logic in killing all of humanity. Theres no “power” or “resources” remaining for them to rule over. It’s just the ocean and the red line

[broken seal]

They don’t do “everything in their power” to prevent destruction. They have caused untold havoc and don’t hesitate to continue as soon as their weapon is operational

[broken seal]

People like this will burn the world down to be king of the ashes. Power is the point

[icy dagger]

Except they don’t want to be the king of nothing? If they did they could’ve destroyed the world before

They could’ve genocided everyone with no real threat to their power if they wanted to. There are several powers in the world that allow this. Hell Imu can literally summon an army of immortal demons that 99.99999% of the world cannot resist against becoming.

[broken seal]

They don’t want complete destruction, but maintaining their order is of a higher priority than keeping anyone alive

[icy dagger]

Yeah I agree they will kill enmass to retain power

That doesn’t mean literally sinking the entire world

That’s BEYOND overkill even for them

[broken seal]

So they will stop at 99.9% destruction?

[icy dagger]

No they will do what is necessary to retain as much of the world as possible while enforcing their rule

A lot of this is under the assumption imu has always wanted to sink the world and has done so in the past btw

Both of which are completely unconfirmed and if anything have more evidence going against it than for it

[broken seal]

I’ve not once argued Imu wants to sink the world. I’m pushing back at the suggestion that any of what the WG is doing is to save the planet in any way. They are the threat.

[icy dagger]

They aren’t trying to save the planet but they’re actively working towards preserving as much as they can and do what’s necessary for their control

Otherwise there’s zero point in trying to be the king of nothing

[broken seal]

And if it becomes necessary to sink the blues to prevent uprising you don’t think they would? This is a “if I can’t have it, no one can” situation for Imu

[icy dagger]

No they wouldn’t lmao

Because if they did it wouldn’t take more than like 3-4 shots right now 🤷

The world is alr cooked from the void century, and one shot from Uranus doesn’t just destroy a island, but several entirely unaffiliated islands from across the world

That’s something you fail to realize, this is something that can hurt THEM too

[broken seal]

So how are we supposed to take the threat implied from VP’s speech that the world could sink if no one is willing to go that far?

[icy dagger]

Because there are monsters in the OP world who do literally want to destroy the world because they actively don’t care

The threat is the use of ALL of the ancient weapons and not just the WG in particular

[broken seal]

And yet I only see one party still pulling the trigger

[icy dagger]

Because they’re literally the greatest world power, and they JUST got this weapon

Imu and co are pretty meticulous compared to some of the worst pirates, who just want to see the world burn

[broken seal]

And they already have near total control. If preservation was the goal, they would have not needed to do that far

This is eerily close to saying “the US needed to use nukes on Japan to prevent more deaths” BS narrative

[icy dagger]

Except the events of the story have gotten so out of control and out of hand that it’s completely unpredictable for them. So securing a weapon that has the ability to wipe out a nation of choice is the next step

[icy dagger]

Except I’m not arguing any of this is “good” I’m arguing they wouldn’t destroy the world if they can help it. If imu is on the brink of death or some shit I could see him doing it as a final fuck you

[broken seal]

There you go. If imu is willing to do it at the end, it was never about preserving anything but his own authority. It’s exactly like I said, if he can’t have the world, no one can

[icy dagger]

But that’s not where he is rn and he won’t be unless he is literally cooked and nothing matters anymore

[broken seal]

And where do you think the story is going? The resistance is building from multiple sources. The WG will be in a desperate spot and the planet will be in danger as a result.

[icy dagger]

The story is going in a direction where all 3 ancient weapons will be held and used on one another

The outcome being suggested is so irrational it only makes sense if imu isn’t surviving regardless. At that point he’s driven to become someone and do something he hasn’t ever considered. Because nobody thinks rationally when death faces them

[broken seal]

I just don’t understand why we should bend so far to justify any of this as for the good of mankind when the only things we’ve actually seen are unchecked greed and disregard for life

[icy dagger]

Because I’m not justifying anything, I’m arguing what they genuinely believe and in a lot of ways have actively been achieving. They HAVE managed to make a world where the majority of the population are able to live relatively normal lives

Compared to the alternative I can see why they’d maintain this

But unfortunately they got so corrupt that they tightened their grip to the point of acting on genocide

And I do want to reiterate that yes, nika is the signal that the world is cooked and will reset. That’s why he’s the god of destruction to a lot of people.

He inherently poses a threat to the world at large as well as those in power, because he completely resets the system. Considering what happened the LAST two times I can’t be surprised that they’re actively horrified at his arrival

Red line creation and the world sinking

To know that something of that level is going to occur AGAIN would make you want to delay it as much as possible

[broken seal]

Oh boy. The majority of people are either living in fear of being wiped out by the WG or pirates, or struggling to to maintain tribute to their oppressors. There are more cocoyashi villages than say relatively stable places like Water 7. The very system is sustained by and propagates human suffering. The status quo itself is a problem. The WG deserves no praise for setting this up.

Again I’ll point to the factory farm analogy. On one hand we say “wow there are so many chickens alive, they must be doing great.” But then you go look at how any of them are actually living

[icy dagger]

You mean the cocoyashi village that got cooked by pirates and a bad apple in the marines?

They even had a actually good marine pull up, they just got killed off

[broken seal]

All of your Arlongs or Doflamingos or Orochis are the same thing Imu is doing only on smaller scales. That’s the point

[icy dagger]

Doflamingo is the only one I can remotely agree with

Orochi was purely senseless and its foolish to argue otherwise. He did so much BS that cooked the grand majority of Wano that weren’t in the capital

[broken seal]

It’s not a one-to-one example every time. The theme is people at the top extracting wealth and power from the masses. It’s the story told time and time again and Imu is the ultimate version

[icy dagger]

Doflamingo ultimately was the king of dressrosa, and did a lot of fucked up shit. But for the most part it wasn’t so irrational that it actively didn’t benefit him. The only time he completely went psycho is when he knew he was fucked and made the birdcage. There was no way out

[icy dagger]

Except orochi was fundamentally scummy and had zero intentions of maintaining shit outside of his little circle. He’s so far in the extreme

And again I don’t disagree that IMU is a scumbag leech who should be put down

I’m primarily arguing that he himself isn’t the problem, it’s ultimately humanity itself that constantly cooks itself

Even the ancient weapons aren’t imus, it was made by the society Imu fought alongside 19 other nations to destroy

Realistically no different than what we are seeing in the modern day

[broken seal]

Imu and Orochi are both parasites. The major difference is Orochi pushed too hard and Wano would have collapsed. Whereas Imu could have maintained a world of suffering indefinitely

[icy dagger]

A better way of expressing myself is basically just

The 20 kings were formed to fight off a threat that realistically could end the world, a kingdom that has at no point been portrayed positively

When the 20 kings won, it’s pretty obvious imu got giddy and became more and more corrupt and jaded with the world as time passed

But I sincerely doubt that was his mindset going into the Great War and certainly not what he intended for the world once he won

I’ll be honest I’ve been talking for too long here and I hate the 1 min cooldown so I’m gonna dip, I’ll read your message but I’m tired af

[broken seal]

The ancient kingdom is associated with Joyboy and all of our “good-coded” societies. It’s been portrayed as nothing but positive.

The 20 kingdoms perceived a threat, which is fair because the ancient weapons could actually destroy the world. But we don’t even know that it was their purpose to be weapons. Poseidon for example was meant to elevate the Fishman.

The more likely scenario is that the 20 kingdoms felt threatened and didn’t trust that kind of power to be used altruistically, so they came together and seized it for themselves. And then they have spent the rest of history consolidating and preserving that power. They are motivated by fear and control

Again, I only rail so hard on this point because all of this is applicable to our real world lives. Trying to say why what Imu is doing could have good aspects, is the same arguments people make to justify corrupt systems that oppress real people.

[remote silo]

Yeah I have a feeling there was a legitimate reason they felt threatened, and it was a real threat even if unintentional. Based on Joyboy’s apology, my guess has been that whatever the ancient kingdom started, it had disastrous unintended consequences.

We all love Luffy (I assume), but know that his shortcomings often stem from childlike impulsiveness, something he had to mature out of thru life experience. If Joyboy was like that but without the solid support structure around him to challenge his bad ideas, perhaps we have a case of good intentions gone horrifically wrong

[clear harbor]

What if imu isnt actually a person but is the reincarnated evil or something like that
Because i cant imagine imu being an actual person who had an actual life because this seems all so bigger, more than just the worldly scale

[drowsy gate]

If Imu wasnt a real person he wouldnt have any emotions 👀

[raw scarab]

There may be a connection between this powerful energy source and creation of devil fruits. I wonder how kingdoms would feel if children suddenly had the tremor tremor fruit, and leveling cities when upset. While the world may have started to become more 'free', it also may have become a horribly destabilized place where being on the ocean was your only way of avoiding the spread of devil fruits. Speculation, but there is so much insane power that probably was floating around with limited control. I can see why the WG may have wanted Emperors, Seven Warlords...ect. It was a way to at least have some control and regulation of that power. The ancient weapons just add another situation that may have been leading to global armegeddon.

[remote silo]

Fantastic point. We definitely know another big theme is how easily intent can change the nature of something from a tool to a weapon. Cause I’ve always kinda thought that DFs had a different purpose in the past until they were potentially weaponized

[ashen chasm]

Theory: The Solar System of One Piece is Geocentric.

In the Ohara flashback, there is a prominently displayed model of the solar system that is geocentric. I believe this model is accurate to the solar system of One Piece, and this is why Luffy is a Sun God.

What the Dawn of the World and the One Piece truly is, is the creation of both the All-Blue and a heliocentric solar system. Not only is their planet fragmented, the unification of the 4 blues into the All-Blue fixing this, but their solar system is fragmented as well, requiring heliocentrism to become "One Piece".

The Will of D. is the Will of Dawn and Dusk, heliocentrism vs. lunarcentrism. People like Luffy are the Dawn faction, people like Blackbeard are the Dusk faction. Luffy's version of the One Piece is the destruction of the Red Line and a heliocentric solar system. Blackbeard's version of the One Piece is a lunarcentric solar system rising the tides and making the Red Line the "one piece" of inhabitable land left, making it easier to control everyone as "King of the World".

We already have 9 confirmed representations of the planets and sun in the world of One Piece. Luffy as the sun, the Gorosei as the inner 5 planets, and the Ancient Weapons as the outer 3 planets. Oda is showing us the planets and the cosmos are important to the story, and this is why.

Video giving much greater context here: https://youtu.be/krUZjEg8fVk

[cobalt igloo]

🥲

[iron current]

this is a first, pinging all the mods with a theory

[keen plover]

My brother/sister in Christmas, please don't ping the entire mod role

[ashen chasm]

It said up top to ping the mods if you want it pinned

[keen plover]

Not all

[ashen chasm]

My bad, didn't understand I was supposed to do that. I'll remove the tag so that people looking at pinned in the future don't get the wrong idea.

[raw laurel]

I see you also have a 31 crew mate theory on your channel

[raw laurel]

How does the pin system work ? Is it there for a period of time before it’s removed cause I don’t see many pins

[ashen chasm]

Yes, I have a lot to back that up as well.

[raw laurel]

I also push it

[ashen chasm]

Thanks, appreciate it.

[steady prism]

Generally we have people that monitor theories in this channel and will gather and pin ones we feel are high-effort. If you feel that one of your theories are pin-worthy, you can ping one of us and we’ll review it.

[raw laurel]

What about #1022309132692365383 for posting long thought out theories

[steady prism]

That’s fine if that’s what you’d prefer. You can share a link to it here so people are aware of it

[ashen chasm]

If you're talking about mine it's definitely long and thought out. The video is over 100 minutes long lol. I can expand the explanation if need be, I just did the cliff notes version to get the main idea across.

[steady prism]

@pure raven go to #manga if you don’t have anything constructive to say

[iron current]

They all got collected a couple months ago

[icy dagger]

“Good coded societies” Wano’s leader during the void century enslaved zuniesha for 800 years. Wano has also been showcased to not be wholesome 100 as they orchestrated a genocide on the kurozumis for zero good reason.

Elbaf was literally known as the most terrifying military threat the world over for centuries and only recently have become more tame as a result of Harald. They’ve almost exclusively been portrayed negatively by the entire world because of their actions. Literally called the “birthplace of war” not the birthplace of friendship

Minks have been associated positively exclusively so I’ll give you them

Sky people are incredibly prone to mindless racism and segregation amongst different cultures as shown by the conflict of skypeia. Despite them being from the same lineages.

Lunarians and Bucaneers have virtually zero known moralities

Fishman island has never been portrayed exclusively positively or negatively. They’ve enacted terrible acts and racist propaganda and have faced the same shit. There’s also some dubious implications in the Harley but that’s speculation.

[icy dagger]

As for the point about Poseidon, Poseidon has NEVER been exclusively portrayed positively, if anything it’s emphasized that it’s a entirely morally ambiguous figure that depends entirely on who uses it and how it’s used. Saying it WILL be used some day for good, but emphasizing that if it’s used for shit reasons it can SINK THE WORLD.

As for pluton and Uranus, there hasn’t been a single positive connotation with the weapon, and it’s only been described by both people who have read the poneglyphs AND people who are aware of its capabilities and use as nothing but a destructive weapon capable of ending the world

[wild vector]

A different interpretation of this scene. People always believe streusen is referring to Lin Lin being a monster for having eaten them.

I think he was calling the form or ability he saw a monster. In line with how we often see monster being used to refer to strength, strangeness, abnormal.

[icy dagger]

Uranus has virtually no way to positively utilize it, because merely using the weapon causes worldwide destruction outside of the intended target.

Pluton’s blueprints ALONE were so horrifying that franky was in complete shock from just looking at them. The same franky who we just had a flashback going into the morality of weapons, and prides himself in that, is horrified by the concept of pluton ALONE

On top of that, the ancient weapons were described as weapons by the ones who wrote the poneglyphs, not some world government made term. They’ve also exclusively been portrayed negatively by those who have actually read the poneglyphs and done their research

Joyboy HIMSELF is far from exclusively positively portrayed, he quite literally the only sun god figure associated with explicitly causing destruction and war. Who wanted to PRESERVE the weapons rather than destroy them, and built a ship conveniently named after a biblical event where god commanded Noah to build a boat to save some lives from him flooding the world

Floods that in one piece have been exclusively associated with the power of the ancient weapons, and CONVENIENTLY none of which are land based

Both pluton and Poseidon traverse the seas, and Uranus the sky. Almost as if they made them for a world that would be completely flooded

And honestly, the thing that gets me most of all is how the Harley words the ending of the second world

It’s generally accepted each world ends with the destruction of the former world by some worldwide disaster. First world talks about the red line and the second world about the flood

Yet the second world doesn’t suggest a “demon” or that the 20 kings were in any way responsible for it, it’s instead ending it off with the line “humanity slew the sun, became deified, and the sea god raged”

Obviously joyboy died and as a result the 20 kings became the new “gods” of the world

But the sea god name has only been attributed to figure of that era, Poseidon. The same Poseidon that we KNOW has the capability to sink the world, and is the first weapon in the series confirmed to be EXPLICITLY capable of doing so

The same Poseidon that strangely is the only one emphasizes that ONE DAY it’ll be used correctly, almost like at one point it WASNT and they want to learn from that mistake

The same Poseidon which is the only one that emphasizes the mermaid princess’s state of mind being a core factor for its strength. With the strange example of “if the princess is in distress, the sea kings would rage”

I don’t think the point of imu or joyboy is le good vs bad nonsense

I think the point is the message that has been a CONSTANT theme in the series, and one that is emphasized immensely by the reveal of a first world. The cycle of oppression

The oppressed rise up to take down their oppressors, only to become the evil they intended to take down in the first place

“HUMANITY” became deified, emphasizing that the battle of the void century was man vs god/gods essentially, the same conflict we find ourselves in now

Down to the ancient kingdom actively attempting to create gods themselves, with the mermaid princess as a example of this

[pure tusk]

I got a great Uranus theory that Joygirl turned into a video about Uranus being the emerald city that you should definitely check out I talk about how the ancient weapons might not have been weapons as well o https://youtu.be/KNAoKnNrvLo?si=M7ubTLRx08U1XMFP

[broken seal]

We see this with Orochi and Arlong and not hardly anywhere else. I agree One Piece will have something to say about cycles of hatred and oppression, and also that there will be nuance to the origin of the ancient war. However the actual constant theme present in every arc has been oppression vs liberation.

In that sense, this has been a more black and white story with Imu (for now, BB’s time will come) as the ultimate evil final boss of oppression. And I expect that to continue with the ancient kingdom being in a mostly positive light. Especially since they will be in line with Luffy’s ideals, who admittedly isn’t a purely good person, but he’s our hero and we’re supposed to be sympathetic towards him. That will translate to Joyboy and the AK.

I really don’t want to address your points in turn. You’re not entirely wrong when you cast doubt on some peoples’ morality, but for the most part you’re going out of your way to paint things in a different light that how the story has presented them. I can’t tell if you’re just really invested in winning an argument for the sake of it, or if you’re pro-authoritarian IRL. Either way, I’m not interested in continuing the conversation.

[icy dagger]

Can you seriously stop pretending my opinions of a story and where it’s going even remotely relates to my opinions on the world at large

Like it’s genuinely irritating and takes away from the argument when you keep saying that as if it’s a valid mark against my claims about the narrative at large

[broken seal]

I don’t know what your opinions are. I do understand that One Piece is a political work that criticizes real world authoritarianism, and that your argument is attempting to undercut that message. It’s the entire reason I spoke out against your original point.

[icy dagger]

You are ASSUMING the ancient kingdom MUST align with luffy’s ideals

You ASSUME luffy and joyboy are fundamentally the same or extremely similar people despite the story constantly emphasizing that they’re not the same, and pushing that label onto luffy goes against the point of zuniesha and emeth’s characters in relation to luffy.

And the point of the theme being oppression vs liberation is only really a trend in the most by the numbers generic one piece arcs commonly seen in early one piece.

Skypeia for example was an arc entirely about the cultural divide between the two clans and how they fundamentally defines their conflict across the past few CENTURIES.

Kaido was a character who was from an oppressed nation where he HAD to fight in order to have any standing, and he still found himself forced into slavery essentially. And that experience defined his desire to enact his own judgement onto the world.

Doflamingo is a great example of a character who is constantly portrayed by others as a purely evil figure, but is only this way because he was taught this certain world view. And when he joined the rest of society on the surface, they exclusively treated him like garbage despite his family trying to live normal lives and reject the celestial dragon mindset, going as far as to fucking CRUCIFYING THEM just to let out their anger

[icy dagger]

I’m not undercutting the message, I’m arguing that characters in a story are nowhere near as simplistically minded as you portray them to be. You’re viewing this conflict as if this was a drum island tier narrative. Where the villain is purely scum with zero nuances in his actions or care for any semblance of order or structure

You can acknowledge that structure exists and deters bad things while also agreeing that it’s done in an extreme way that undercuts the point of it in the first place.

That’s generally how this shit goes down, Kaido and big mom are especially good examples of this. Characters who have intentions rooted in horrible experiences that make them strive for a “better” world BEYOND the Wapol tier mindset

Viewing it in a black and white way honestly undercuts how much oda has done to make his story as nuanced and intricate as he has, to the point where he offers the audience the question of what exactly would be the objectively correct way to handle these situations? Going about it from a simple, complex, and even really sensitive and touchy ways

[broken seal]

The nuance works to demonstrate how these imbalances manifest as a result of complex histories and societal pressures. They rarely give us a convenient scapegoat we can get rid of and the problem goes away. It’s why removing Imu and co isn’t going to magically save the world, and why it’s been important that Dragon is inspiring people to help themselves, or Garp is teaching a new generation of marines a better brand of justice.

The major themes of good and evil are present, but they come through flawed complicated people who aren’t really good or evil. It’s black and white viewed from far away, but complex under a microscope. This is also important real world commentary. The people in power in our world aren’t cartoon caricatures , they are the results of complex systems, that need to be fully understood if we hope to change them

[icy dagger]

I think this is the first time I agree with you p much completely

That’s all I’ve been trying to emphasize with the conflict in the three worlds, the usage of deities vs demons, the question of morality posed in characters like joyboy, as well as the fact that imu himself being defeated doesn’t end the cycle alone

It just continues the several thousand year cycle already caused by the same basic conflict of interest and the unfortunate solutions made by both

I think the AK is an example of flying too close to the sun and creating unholy and immoral things for whatever their purposes were. It’s pretty fucked up to imagine Poseidon was a man made creation and not some super special power for royalty or some shit

[broken seal]

That’s fair enough. I thought you were totally trying to discount the threads of good and evil that have been running in the background through history.

The nuance is the thing that fans skip over the most, which is a shame. My hope that’s just because Oda hasn’t stuck the landing with showing the full history of the conflict yet, and it will become clear later, like you’re saying about the AK

[icy dagger]

No no I don’t want to say imu is secretly a nice guy who luffy will hug it out with

But I do think he was never just BORN evil, and instead was treated like dogshit by the AK when he was younger, either thru blockading of resources, constant domination and war for power, or, in my opinion, straight up enslaving imu at one point. Going as far as to treat him as if he was inhuman scum who deserves it

If the conflict of the void century is quite literally just AK good 20 kings bad then that would be absolutely dogshit and completely undermines how much time we spent with this world and how much these conflicts have evolved from the trenches of Kuro and Wapol

And while I do emphasize a lot of the traits negatively portrayed by the AK, I do not think they were completely horrible and I think, like the third world, it’s a lot more complicated the further down you go

Like I don’t think joyboy was a mustache twirling fiend lmao

[drowsy gate]

And i agree, Thats the only thing im missing to complete my entire One Piece story Theory, what made Imu like that or what did he do to get this power, i have 95% of what happened from the Nika world to Luffy's world, all im missing is this haha

[dusk canopy]

Still waiting on the other 3 cardinal beasts devil fruits thing I mentioned months ago. I really want to see what they look like.

[wild vector]

Where was this?

[dusk canopy]

Here

[steady prism]

@earnest glen sorry, these manga channels are meant to be OP-specific; we don’t allow discussions of other popular anime/mangas here to avoid people unintentionally spoiling each other. You’re more than welcome to discuss Naruto and how it utilizes the concept of cardinal beasts in #other-series (with proper spoiler tagging)

[dusk canopy]

Well nuts, didn't see what I was pinged for

[earnest glen]

well, in short black tortoise (genbu) is kinda rare whenever the other three shows up, though I'm not allowed to mention specifics

[swift cosmos]

Okay I just want to post a common theory here but I w hat to hear your reasoning on it

Essentially, I believe that Kuma probably went to Amazon Lily during his revolutiona army days

(I am currently on an Amazon lily theorizing kick)

The current community theory is that he came there during his search for Benny's cure

But looking a the reactions of the girls there, that is extreamely unlikely

[wild vector]

Devil fruits having reincarnated onto the tangerine trees are a fairly common theory. There are multiple options (Snow, brush, orochi)

However the most common retort against this idea is "why haven't they been shown then"

I think plot would be the biggest reason, but the lore reason is their value. They are worth hundreds of millions of berries.

Nami wouldn't tell Luffy about the fruits spawning on her trees, and Sanji would instantly report them to nami.

A lot of people take this as some sort of insult. As though it makes nami a traitor or etc. but it isn't like that.

It's purely money motivated. This doesn't make her sneaky, it makes her what she's always been.

She won't make them known till the crew needs power boosts for an enies lobby level motivation.

I don't think nami will eat a fruit. She's plenty powerful now. The biggest upgrade she could get is a gauntlet or other style vegapunk weapon.

[swift cosmos]

We've seen a devil fruit reincarnate before though

[wild vector]

That doesn't retort anything I said.

[swift cosmos]

Wasn't trying too

[wild vector]

The "though" at the end of your sentence implies you were.

[swift cosmos]

Sorry about that

[wild vector]

Another interesting line with implications from the same chapter.

From egghead we know Saturn was experimenting with devil fruit conveyance through extract.

If people already thought of doing it that way, what's to say they haven't already tried devil fruit conveyance through canabilism.

theres no proof that people aren't aware of that so my point is pretty much moot.

However I do think if devil fruits really were transferred through canabilism that it would be too cheap. Like what happens when you cook someone(like when buggy was almost eaten), do they die or does the fruit stay in meal?

But this would mean caramel being eaten is a massive unresolved red herring.

[swift cosmos]

Getting back to my theory on Amazon Lily, the reason why people assume that it was during the Bonny cure trek is because we see many of the other islands he visited were islands that he sent the other straw hats to. But many people forget that there was another island that wasn't shown during the flashback, Momoiro Island. And we all correctly assume he went there during his revolutionary days knowing that Ivankov was the ruler there

Plus that we know that Kuman can only send people places that he's been before, not places that he knows where they are

[oak wind]

In the spirit of Halloween, I felt like re-watching movies and I’m on the third Pirates of the Caribbean movie, at worlds end when Jack sparrow realizes that to get back to the real world from Davy Jones locker he needs to make the ship go upside down similar to Imus domei reversei

[unique iron]

Guys, i think this might be how Rocks died?
He could be controlled/transformed by Imu at some point or nearing the end of their battle hence Roger&Garp and maybe Whitebeard+Kaido had to kill him?
I don't think it'd be just Roger&Garp

[fierce shale]

Oh wow, I was about to post a similar theory. I agree, Imu is going to take control of Rocks at some point. I think Garp and Roger will eventually join in….then at some point Rocks might offer his body to Imu or it might be an ultimatum. But either way, his plan might be to kill imu when he has a physical body.

[limber fox]

@undone hull

[rich storm]

Hey guys. About that line with imu and saturn "we risk something else being unleashed"

I have a theory

THE SECOND WORLD

Within the void there was breath.

The forest god(Imu) tamed demons(controlling domi reversi demons) and the sun(joyboy) spread the fires of war.

Those of the half-moon dreamed.
Those of the moon dreamed.

Man(WG) killed the sun(joy boy) and became god(Imu), and the sea god(whatever imu mentioned in this chapter that should not be awakened) stormed.

And they will never meet.

[soft urchin]

I suspect Rocks did not die and is instead held hostage by Imu in Domi Reversi form

[elfin birch]

Is it true that Imu's throne is made out of red poneglyph material and the swords on it are penetrating it even though its impossible to break? Anyone noticed it yet or just my imagination

[dreamy goblet]

If that's true why didn't imu just domi reversi him when he broke into Mariejois

[soft urchin]

not enough time, rocks surprised them m, any number of explanations

[mighty moon]

Domi reversi almost happens instantly

[dreamy goblet]

Idk man imu took over the Giants quickly and rocks was sitting down, we don't even know if they were surprised I'm sure they have future site or at the very least observation haki

[soft urchin]

Sabo surprised them

[swift cosmos]

So we know Imu is not omnipresent

[dreamy goblet]

True but surprising imu is not a good enough reason for them to not use their ability imo especially when they seems more mad/surprised about Sabo being there than rocks

[swift cosmos]

Their can only see where their vessels are

[soft urchin]

so counterpoint, why not just domi the whole world? or everyone in the government? why all this theatre? There must be limits/rules to the ability

[dreamy goblet]

There are most likely limits but time and "suprise" can't be them and even if there were no limit I don't think imu would want to domi the world they just want to flood it

[soft urchin]

Why is time not a good reason? Plenty of transformations don't happen instantly, especially suoer strong powers. And wouldn't doing a domi to the whole world make flooding the world faster?

[crude dove]

https://youtu.be/7okOsptc4Tg
at 5:30 he talks about a bunch of hunters turned pirates in the carriabien who are called buccknier (kuma race).
could this be the people buccknier in one piece are based on.

edit: he also later on in the video shows the settelers in those islands wearing strawhat.

oh, and the main guy in that story later on in the vid takes out the heart of a guy and eat it, maybe that's how Blackbeard got gura-gura no mi from wb.

[swift cosmos]

We'll find out eventually

[crude dove]

you will be late to

[pliant wind]

Theory:- I think kaido was coming to marineford to help wb and shamrock stopped him and everyone thought it was shanks.As we saw in the latest chapter he had lot of respect for wb only those two stayed to be next to rocks.

[rare wedge]

Athought just occurred to me and I wanted to know your opinion on it. Do you think maybe Franky and Vegapunk team up to make Pluton on Elbaph using the wood from the Adam tree? Or at lease maybe Franky provides the Blueprints to Vegapunk when he leaves with the crew and Vegapunk stays behind to make it. Assuming Elbath makes it through, that could also provide Loki and the Giants a way to join the fleet later in time?

Assuming Franky didnt make the Sunny with Pluton

[pliant wind]

I think its already in the sunny

[broken seal]

If that were true it wouldn’t matter that poneglyphs are indestructible to normal people. The WG could have rounded them all up by now and used Imu’s power to destroy them

[swift cosmos]

I see it happening

[wild vector]

Idk if they would make it given icebergs whole concern about weapons that shouldn't be birthed into this world.

I've been under the impression that the Adam wood availability detail is meant to hint at kidd, barto, and the sun pirates getting a new ship.

Also Loki already has a means of joining the fleet. He can/will be the co captain of the giant pirates with hajrudin.

[swift cosmos]

Still wondering how Fishman Island's road Ponyglyph was taken

[karmic dagger]

https://youtu.be/WEIMr1SLTcA this vid is so good but i have a theory... a new theory... one never spoken before... is rayleigh celibate?

basing that off his move naming connecting to buddhism, achieving no desires, no showing a lot of interest in being "tied down" that may connect to monkhood etc.

[rare wedge]

By blackbeard? I thought he got it from Law and Company?

[swift cosmos]

That Poneglyphs was gone for a quarter of a century at this point

[rare wedge]

I also think Divon or whatever the shapeshifter lady name is, she going to go to fishman island disguised as Luffy and steal Noah after Blackbeard hears about it from Caribou

[swift cosmos]

Did she ever touched Luffy before?

[rare wedge]

Could of easily on Egghead

[swift cosmos]

We never saw her doing it though

[astral marten]

Question:

Why was there a huge egg onboard the oro jackson?I would give a picture but I can't. But there is a polka dot huge egg on the oro jackson..and I want to know why.

[dreamy goblet]

Right? I thought it was an ancient weapon but i don't think it is anymore maybe gaban will say to luffy at the end of elbaph?

[dreamy goblet]

Because rocks was there long enough. He busted in sat down had a convo and left without a single attempt of reversi while imu using gunko did it on the Giants instantly

[astral marten]

Its called the Rock egg theory and grok gave me this.Ancient Weapon Connections: Uranus is described as a "god of the sky," and the 2023–2025 arcs (Egghead and Elbaf teases) hint at bird/dragon motifs. A February 2025 GameRant theory ties it to the "Ancient Mural" in Chapter 1114, where a dragon-like figure clutches an egg—speculating Roger's crew found a similar relic, with the Roc as Uranus' vessel or embryo. Fan wikis amplify this, claiming the egg "tames dragons" like a controller.

[dreamy goblet]

It's a good theory, but it's odd it needs the mother flame

[astral marten]

I have no idea..the ancient mural shows a dragon and said he unleash Uranus the dragon shadow whatever looks like it destroying everything..it could be the egg

[pale torrent]

Imu isn’t immortal — they’ve been switching bodies for centuries using the Ope Ope no Mi.
That’s why they look different in the shadows and why no one knows their true identity.
The first body Imu ever took might’ve been Nefertari Lily, the queen of Alabasta who vanished after founding the World Government.
It explains why the Nefertari bloodline (like Vivi) is still targeted
she’s basically Imu’s original self.

[rough storm]

imu is 100 percent immortal. not switching body i mean the elders seems to be immortal too. and i think the ope ope no mi was first used on imu. and i think imu has the uranus devil fruit who people thought is a weapon of mass destruction. i think its a devil fruit. if poseidon is a mermaid, and pluton is a battle ship. uranus being a devil fruit makes so much sense.

[pale torrent]

Good point though BRO 💀🔥 that makes so much sense wtf… Uranus as a DF would be insane 👀

[rough storm]

uranus was probably the first devil Fruit ever created, but it became corrupted by its first user. Nika was likely created afterward to counter the power of the Uranus devil Fruit...

[pale torrent]

Wtf is this real or theory?

[rough storm]

just my head canon lmao

but i really want uranus to be a devil fruit and not some kind of flying battle ship. pluton can probably do that already

[brisk jay]

From my theory posted on twitter:
ScarrletEl/status/1976991387083325577
One Piece: 1st World / Elbaf: World of Heaven (Abode of the Gods) Thread of Threads

1. /Chi/【地】 many know that it is Earth, be it a planet or a piece of land, etc. But it is also the entire area that you conquer in the game of Go, which is very similar to the game Reversi, in which you have black and white stones. It is the Domain! Domi(nio) Reversi?

Go and Reversi have the same principles of Chess: white and black pieces too

2. Historical Context, since One Piece is about History and Geography: European imperialism in Asia If you add the kanas of Imu, France is 🇫🇷
   one of the main imperialist countries

3. I suggest interpreting it in several ways: a literal one, as it happened in the Lost Century, and a symbolic one, that the Earth is the target of domination, invasion, conquest, and other meanings that you find.

4. 【炎】/Honô/ são as chamas, mas podem ser uma emoção forte e intensa e isso se mostra muito em OP

5. Was the Earth literally on fire, ablaze with desire, with the fury of war? Was there an intense desire to conquer territories? It could be anything!

6. 地の神 /Chi no Kamí/. It is natural to imprint our cultural and individual vision. Japan is polytheistic (Shinto) and monolatric (Buddha) at the same time. Are there gods? Just one? It is also natural to interpret the Earth as a God itself.

7. The Skypea Arc may give hints Dai Chi no Kami = the Great God of the Earth implies that it is a single entity

in the panels: the Rain God(s); the Forest God(s) and the Big Earth God(s).

8. 怒り/Ika-ri/ : Fury. As in English, fury can be literal or the fury of nature (natural cataclysms) or the Judgment of the Christian God (神の怒り = Ira Dei). Because of the abuse of technology and resources, humanity paid a price (retribution from Mother Earth)

9.1 Current parallel (Elbaph): the Day of Wrath (Dies Ira) in Western Christianity is the day of judgment, and this term οργη θεου is used a lot in Portuguese, which comes from the Latin: Wrath of God. We are in Elbaf, and Loki, the "God of the Sun", according to him, will destroy the world, as predicted among the elders of the people.

9.2. Current Parallel (Egghead): Vegapunk committed the sin of greed, of going beyond, he touched the Sun (Icarus). He was punished by Saturn, the god of Time/the god of science and defense; and in East Asian Astrology: 土星 (the God of Earth)

[swift cosmos]

Wonder why I like Toritoma theories so much?

Even if she isn't Luffy's mom, her entire situation is sonething that would fit well into dragon's story.

" He dedicated so much time to his cause, it literally killed his lover"

[brisk jay]

the Torch Lily is very similar to the colour patterns of Yamato's hair

[swift cosmos]

Wait you have a point

[brisk jay]

Torch Lily = Tritoma

[swift cosmos]

However she would be a stretch for Yamato mother though

[brisk jay]

yes,not always the conection implies parentage, they can have something in common: destiny, personality, resolve.. we dont know

[swift cosmos]

Also Luffy's current outfit fits a torch lily also

latest (686×1435) https://share.google/9DGLf3gcCbBbF2Ttr

[solemn lagoon]

Roger’s Divine Departure was first used against Imu in God Valley to send them back to the Holy Land.

There is a reason why the name is called Divine Departure. Divine as if it was coming from powers of a God (Heroes with divine powers), and Departure as in Departing Imu back to the Holy Land, as if this attack is a special move for a way to cancel the immortality of Gods’ Knights. Gaban told Luffy in Elbaf that the Knights aren’t immortal and that there is a way to hurt them. Advanced Conq. Haki plays a role against these type of Knights.

Another Theory I have is that maybe Sengoku wasn’t lying about Garp and Roger teaming up against Rocks, It is possible that soon Rocks was Domi Reversed, and led to Garp and Roger having to team up just to defeat Rocks leading to kill him because of the Domi Reverse by Imu, and possibly Garling could play a role too.

[remote silo]

When we first met Rocks I started to theorize that what makes BB so special is that Rocks is hiding his soul in BB’s body. Everything clicked after also meeting his mother finally.

I think the three motif with BB and his three distinct personalities makes complete sense if BB is housing both his mother and father’s spirits.

When he’s demure and quiet, I think that’s Teach. When he’s plotting and planning, that’s Xebec, and when he’s fiery and wild (like in the fight vs Law), that’s his mother in control.

[cosmic fern]

this isiterally what I was thinking of

Which would also explain why he can have multiple devil fruits as in like multiple souls I also think if that is true he may have multiple lives too which would be revealed in the future BB Vs Luffy fight

[wicked needle]

Do u think bbs next df will be a zoan since he can have 3 and already has a logia and paramecia

[remote silo]

How would that manifest in the story you think? Sounds interesting.

This would all make sense if we are dealing with some kind of ancient kingdom futuristic soul technology. Even all the inorganic materials of this world are able to be modified with this technology - slice a rock and get a ham roast, or give a cloud sentience, transform mountains into rubber, even some of its people, this entire world seems to uniquely interact with souls in all of these ways.

Maybe we're gonna get to see this finally if Teach really is housing his parents' souls. Roger saying he's not gonna die having more than one meaning and all of that. ❤️ Gaza

[remote silo]

honestly I hope so cause it would be so satisfying seeing all three interact in one body. For science!

Something else I think is interesting is that when we first met Shamrock, we found he's wielding the blade of Cerberus. This seems more and more relevant as GV continues. The implication seems to be that Cerberus - objectively a weapon, metaphorically BB - is an instrument of oppression that is wielded by the Garling family. Perhaps. I think there's something there I can't quite put my finger on.

But the symmetry of BB linked to Shamrock in an inverse way that Luffy is linked to Shanks would be pretty neat

[cosmic fern]

As for how it manifests I never thought about it in detail I just thought about the idea, as for the rest I absolutely agree. ❤️ whoever loves gaza

[brisk jay]

whoever this character is... similar to the Magician card in tarot and we know tarot symbols are used in One Piece: Basil Hawkins
does it make sense?

[chrome badger]

When Xebec mentions what stands before them is "The World"

It makes Whitebeards speech about "The World" being turned upside down add new meaning

[swift cosmos]

New theory dropped on TikTok
Tldr; Rocks managed to get to Laugh Tale before Roger did.

He's Brazilian...

[granite surge]

Also since the “gods” have these demonic transformations and actions. Yet they live at the top

[icy dagger]

I think that’s a common theme of one piece tbh

The gods are almost always correlated with demonic imagery

[drowsy gate]

Im still confused about Zunisha, like how does such a thing have a city with a giant whale tree on it, why does that whale tree have the ''voice of all''

[iron current]

is it the tree or the Poneglyph that had the voice

[drowsy gate]

I believe Momo said it comes from the tree, then they show it to us, he wouldnt be able to stand near the poneglyph if that was the case

Plus the fact that voice seem to always come from animals

[iron current]

but first of all Roger could hear the voice from the Poneglyph on Skypia and if it was the tree by your logic he wouldnt be able to step into it either

[drowsy gate]

he heard the poneglyph ?

Oh ur right i checked

How come Luffy never heard a poneglyph then lol

[iron current]

who knows, he just wasnt capable yet at that point

[last estuary]

Big mom also confirms this when roger steals her road poneglyph rubbing*

[drowsy gate]

What makes momo able to do it at such a young age, Oda is frying my brain lol

[wild vector]

All of these clouds around the ancient kingdom lead me to believe it was a sky island.

So what if the 4 road poneglyphs lead to a knock up stream? This could explain why they can't get there by log pose.

Side theory: god valley 2.0 will be at laughtale.

3 things could happen concurrently before all parties get their means of finding their coordinates.

Cross guild- invasion of impeldown.

Strawhats- invasion of maryjoa.

Blackbeard- invasion of fishman island.

These locations are all near each other. The juxtaposition of the strawhats invading maryjoa while bb invades right below them is nice.

I don't know what shanks would do. He's the wild card.

It could also be possible side stuff could happen through cover story since there's a lot to digest narritively at the moment.

[swift cosmos]

So when will we get a name-drop for the ancient kingdom?

[wild vector]

Probably when the heat goes down on elbaph and Robin gets the time to look over stuff.

It would be pretty sweet if she can make clones for faster reading.

[swift cosmos]

Probably after they save the Elbaph library

[wild vector]

Exactly there's so many plot lines up at the moment.

[swift cosmos]

Also Franky and Lilith restart that old laboratory. That place will be an utter goldmine of information

If the memory banks are still readable. (Seriously peopel forgot about the 3000 year old laboratory)

[wild vector]

There's no confirmation it is a lab. We just know it's some kinda robot remains with buildings built into it

[fringe coral]

What yall think imu’s devil fruit is gonna be?

[unique stirrup]

Ok so, I was thinkin; Rock's lady's name is Eris. Eris is a dwarf planet in our IRL solar system. We have Gorosei with planet based names and weapons with planet based names, does anyone think there is any significance to her name being a dwarf planet (like Pluto)?

[unique stirrup]

THE Devil Fruit. The Devil Devil Fruit. Or just the Devil Fruit, the OG.

[unique stirrup]

If Eris is a celestial dragon, based on her name, then Teach is a half celestial dragon, half Davy clan human which seems like something the WG would hate or want to not happen. Maybe that's his special lineage; he is the only half CD half Davy and that is why he doesn't sleep for some reason

[remote silo]

The thing that's bothered me about that is Luffy specifically said people from winter islands die if they sleep. But Teach isn't from a winter island. I'm inclined to think, at the moment, his lack of sleep is a misnomer; if he has multiple personalities, it's likely one is awake while the other(s) are dormant. His body never sleeps. He could be like a dolphin where half the brain goes to sleep at a time 🤔

[cosmic torrent]

So about the "debt" Kaido owed Big Mom: I know that Big Mom says she gave the Fish Fish Fruit legendary model but in reality Kaido took it from her. I wonder if in her eyes she feels he does owe her for two things in particular: one she is technically the reason why Kaido found the fruit, but more importantly I wonder if is the fruit giving Kaido the extra edge necessary to survive the encounter with Imu. I wonder if Kaido knows and so does Big Mom that without it Kaido would have gotten killed during God Valley. Even more I wonder about something else, if the real debt that Big Mom has over Kaido is that after getting beaten down by Imu, Kaido was taken to safety by Big Mom. During the Kaido backstory we got a glimpse of the moment after Rocks was defeat and the news arrive at Hachinosu, we got a panel of Big Mom trying to find Kaido. I think that at some point of the fight when it was obvious Rocks, WB and Kaido were not gonna be able to overcome Imu, the rest of the Rocks pirates decided to bail on Rocks and amongst them was Big Mom taking a seriously injured Kaido, his final memory of God Valley being Rocks abandoned to die. Is the reason why Kaido says pirates will betray you and he owes Big Mom a debt. Is no just the Fish Fish Fruit but the fact he is alive becuase of Big Mom.

[upbeat valley]

god of the land or forest god

[ebon bone]

Or devil (ruler of underworld.)

[hybrid ivy]

Something to note is Kaido's legendary durability may be largely in part of the fruit. Like it's not just haki otherwise Garp would be as invincible as Kaido

One scene that is largely forgotten is when Luffy and Zoro first met adult momo. When he got punched he said it doesnt hurt at all which is an out of place line at that time.

Zoan definitely adds to somebody's physical capacity for sure and fish fish might have a massive attribute of that

[red comet]

Soooooo is Imu gonna start possessing Xebec and others cause I’m sure this is a raid boss event now and garp and Roger regretfully will have to kill Xebec

[jagged pewter]

I think that just might be Imu's concept art. Like disregard all the features and trace the outline and you get imu's outline (the pointed crown seems like a dead giveaway to me)

[drowsy gate]

Aku Aku no mi

mythical modele : Hades

Imu's yokai form is either Llamhigyn Y Dwr or Ôgama

[wraith orchid]

It will be the saddest death of all anime

[wraith orchid]

I think imu is straight up going to be the devil

[wild vector]

Imus devil fruit will have originally belonged to Lily.

It is hito hito no mi model izanami.

This explains the long hair when in possessed mode. The demon wings. The connection to "the abyss". And being able to turn people into demons.

It really just depends on what lore he decides to use, but I think this fits the most right now.

-Charming demon- is a move Zoro uses in 387. The move looks like a winged demon with an awakening ribbon around it. Very big coincidence that really is no coincidence.

[brisk jay]

he maybe has a hax that controls the devils inside the fruits himself

[brisk jay]

the Ancient Kingdom's Flag was erased by iMU

1. Imu on contraire is MUI = the Japanese equivalent to Nirvana. in china is called Wuwei. its the not-Motion
2. the star that doesnt move is the Polaris
3. Polaris is the Northern Hemisphere main guide star (lode star)
4. Harald mentioned this star (North Star) is a survival technique of navigation
5. the equivalent in Southern Hemisphere is the Crux or Southern Cross. a polar opposition of Polar Star
6. the Flag of WG is similar to a southern cross, so maybe it was redesigned to erase the Ancient Kingdom.
7. Ancient Kingdom is the opposite star(s): the Crux. Polaris is one, its rigid, its unmoveable. the Crux are 5 five star,s its a team.
8. we have 2 triangles: the triad of WG with Impel Down, Ennies Lobby and Marineford. the other is the Florian Triangle, clearly associated with Imu.
9. there are holes on this WG zone, so maybe the Ancient Kingdom( AK) was there. the true zone of Imu is in Florian Triangle.
10. Joyboy was the first pirate. and Portugal was the pioneer in the Great Navigations. Portugal's flag has a "Crux" . maybe the AK name was Portgas.
11. Luffy is "Brazilian" and Brazil is the successor of Portugal and Brazil's flag has a hidden Crux. its more evident in the Coat of Arms. Luffy is a D and a successor of Joyboy
12. Ennies Lobby has Moroccan architecture and is next to Portugal and Spain, what reinforces the AK location being there

---

Hook for another theory:
13. Impel Down maybe reflects Guantanamo, in Cuba territory, of Spain-related culture.
14. Guantanamo is close to Bermuda Triangle, the irl equivalent of Florian. Florian and the WG are both in Paradise
13. Imu maybe reminds us of the lost continent Mu
14. Mu is in the Pacific Ocean
15. Hy Brazil is the hidden island on Atlantic ocean, the opposite ocean

[cosmic bane]

Whitebeard and Kaido received their titles/nicknames due to God Valley: When Whitebeard asks what they’re up against, Rocks says it’s “The World”. The public came up with their own theories for them getting these portrayals. For Whitebeard, it’s because he has a DF capable of destroying the world and is Roger’s equal in combat. As for Kaido, it’s due to his reputation of winning nearly every 1v1 he’s in.

The true reason The World Government gave them the World’s Strongest Man Title and The World’s Strongest Creature one is facing The World “Imu” in combat and surviving.

As for why Roger, Garp, and Rocks don’t have these is pretty easy to explain. They made up a cover story of Roger and Garp defeating The Rocks Pirates so The World Government has no reason to give them additional credit. Rocks is just dead so he can’t be The World’s Strongest Man.

To add more support to this theory, Whitebeard was stated to obtain his title well before the great age of piracy. God Valley was nearly 20 years before it began so the timeline matches up.

[muted valley]

Primordial fruit that isn't really a df but the basis for all df abilities. More of a reality warping soul/bonding thing. That supersedes df abilities but works on a contractual basis with the OP world.

[quiet wedge]

Random thought - In 1162 - The panel that shows the sillhouette of dragon Kaido in the background - Imu / Saturn discussing say "if all this destruction continues - we may risk something else being unleashed" - What are they talking about?
You can read it as they are concerned that the chaos created by the pirates will cause word of the hunt/genocide to leak to the wider world, but what if it is something else? What if the act of destruction itself leads to some kind of outcome (related to Nika? Related to some grander plan? ) that they do not want?
Pirate bounties are of course said to be determined by the amount of destruction / cost to the WG that the individual has caused. Flooding of the lower lands of the world has been shown to leave the buildings of many civilisations mostly intact. Perhaps it goes deeper than simply wanting to conceal their actions to the rest of humanity.

[muted valley]

I interpreted it as its something that the wg is hiding, like either news of the human/hunts or something even more damning to the wg. Like history that shouldn't be known/powers that arnt supposed to exsist/imu/what imu is trying to prevent by removing Davy clan.

We know God vally got erased. However, Kaido still learns of joyboy and the need of a army for a giant war in the future. Im guessing whatever happens information about the possible future/lost history gets revealed tho those fighting.

[fleet maple]

Sooo..question for all the lore buffs. Its being speculated that Imu is "The world", if that ends up being correct, wouldnt that change the context of the Harley texts?

[dreamy goblet]

What if Teach doesn't have a logia? As far as I can remember the only reason we "know" it's a logia is cuz he told us. But what if it's just not true and he has a mythical zoan fruit like luffy it would make sense this would be one of the final df to beat and would explain why he gets hurt as a "logia"

[raw scarab]

I had a thought a couple of months ago that for the moment that Imu was a necessary evil. That in order to free the world, things had to be set in place to ensure the world 1) didnt get obliterated 2) a madman didnt get Imu's power and make the world even worse. We might be entering a situation on GV where Rocks uses a devil fruit power, starts to steal Imu's power, or taps into something ancient that causes real trouble. Rocks gets a taste of true and terrifying power, and jeapordizes everyone still on the island, forcing Roger and Garp to have to defeat Rocks. Garp and Roger realize about the demons that rule the world, but perhaps learn there is something even worse. The current order needs to be maintained for now.

[blazing cloud]

lowk a sea-sea related devil fruit, and the reason why df users start sinking/weakening in water is because of imu and his awakened logia

[muted valley]

The world could mean alot of things.

Like if rocks wants to conqueror the world. It makes perfect sense he has to beat imu. To figuratively and literally take over the world.

As well as oth were instances of what "the world" could be.

I dont see how the Harley text matters in this sense. Since its a historical/predictive text. While Rocks is giving a very gross generalization to what Imu represents. Since he is what controls the world.

[knotty flare]

It's an interesting theory. Perhaps that's the reason why Garp, despite seeing everything in God Valley, decided to stay as a marine. To maintain the balance of the world

[glad spoke]

Ok one thing I have seen a lot is that rocks is gonna get domi reversed and then roger and garp will beat him. I hate this idea because that would make rocks very silly and weak which is not how he is portrayed at the moment.

My head canon is that imu will beat rocks in a full one on one fight and garp and roger will get the credit. Now for whitebeard I feel like he will lose to imu quickly and then will try to get help from the other crew members and will find none. I think kaido will also learn this truth once he wakes up from his injuries.

[muted valley]

Sadly I think that's what's happening. Since we saw Imu turn the davy clan members into demons. As well as Giants into demons.

From my thoughts it seems imu has the power to turn people not associated with the wg into his soldiers.

I sadly think the only way for the god vally story to play out is Rocks beating imu; imu turning Rocks and having control of a extremely powerful body(or rocks goes berserk and isnt in control of his body but imu has no control over it). Likley soo powerful that its actually a net negative for everyone but the wg. So roger/garp beat Rocks as it is a worse case scenario.

[torn plover]

I don't really want it to be a domi reverse situation. It would make everybody and everything automatically loose to imu except for G5 probably. I hope there is more to it like imu not having control over him at all...but then again, how can garp and roger win vs an undying body

Maybe only by destroying the whole island and have him sink to the floor of the ocean. We still don't know if he ate a devil fruit or not. And Kaido only talking about haki and Roger makes me think rocks had one

[misty rain]

Think we will see the unseen Frontier agents of Baroque Works as members of the Cross Guild?

[ivory fog]

Ok, insane theory BUT... Usopp will become worthy to lift Loki's hammer
So Oda has this thing where all of Usopp's lies actually come true
One if his most used secondary weapons is a hammer, specifically the 10 ton (or however many) hammer, a hammer that seems impossible to lift but it's just a blow-up hammer
So, this lie must also come true, hence Usopp will lift the actually impossible to lift hammer

[vague flare]

probably not. majority of the seen officers got packed up with relative ease. I can’t see any of them except like Croc’s top 3 becoming strong enough over the timeskip to be able to take on New World Marine officers.

[vague flare]

I fail to see how Rocks getting turned by Imu would make him seem weak. It’s part of Imu’s devil fruit power. it isn’t like conqueror’s haki where you can withstand it if you are sufficiently strong willed. it seems to me that Imu can control anybody he wants to (I’m sure there is a currently unexplained limitation to take control)

in any case, Imu wants Rocks dead. he has no reason to make Rocks fight Roger and Garp as opposed to killing him outright.

[vital crane]

imu will turn rocks into a demon that's why roger and garp killed him

[vague flare]

again. Roger is rivals with Rocks and Garp already had orders to take care of Rocks. Imu’s ability to turn people into imps also appears to make them stronger. if Imu wanted Rocks dead, why bother making him harder to defeat when his 2 greatest enemies were already gonna fight him? he also could have just turned Rocks into an imp and made Rocks kill himself.

[vital crane]

good point

[vague flare]

I’m not saying it won’t happen. but it doesn’t make sense in my mind unless Oda does something weird to force the plot

I could potentially see Imu controlling Roger and/or Garp upon realizing they were too weak to defeat Rocks with their natural power. I hope that doesn’t happen tho

[swift cosmos]

Okay I know for a fact that during Joyboy's Time, the Redline existed

[vague flare]

?? I’m not trying to sound like a jerk but. yeah. The Lunarians lived up there until likely during the void century when the 20 kingdoms waged genocide against them to establish Mariejois.

Except back then the ocean was way less deep, so the Red Line was probably a big ass plateaued mountain that encompassed the prime meridian.

[misty rain]

Not about strength, talking about just having them around. Also nothing is stoping non protagonists from getting stronger.

[vague flare]

they could get stronger, true. I’m just saying I can’t picture them getting strong enough. most of the unseen bounty hunters were lower ranking than the ones we did see. and a lot of who we did see got low diffed by no haki Straw Hats. Daz Bones is clearly NW level now, but Mr. 2 still seems to be fodder.

obv the lower ranks could get stronger during the timeskip, but they had a lot more catching up to do than Mr. 1 and 2. so if 2 still sucks, they probably get negged by NW captains. nevermind vice admirals.

ig they could take on non-officers but I’m not even sure if normal soldiers carry bounties in Cross Guild

[remote silo]

That same argument applied to Enel. Luffy is the natural counter to a power that is otherwise unstoppable to everyone else

[gilded gate]

Ace was looking for Teach on Lulusia in "Ace's hunt for Black Beard", and Eris told Xebec to join her on Lulusia in chapter 1162, so does that mean Teach grew up on Lulusia?

[torn plover]

I wouldn't say that. Maybe at that time but since we know haki - in my opinion you would be able to beat him with just stronger haki. Just look at the last panels where garps just laughs about linlin's fire. Why wouldnt that apply to enel right now?

[pure tusk]

Quite possibly for little bit yes

[fringe hemlock]

waitttt this is good shit

[remote silo]

Okay totally valid and true - but in the context of the story, that’s what Enel represented. Even the two arms of the pirate king couldn’t stay on their feet

Imo anyone who is truly free will be immune to domi reverse, similar to how Luffy could tank lightning all day no sweat. That would explain why the government would want to keep all such knowledge from prying eyes

[muted valley]

We know that Roger and garp saved the CDs in god vally. If that's the acknowledged story that was hidden. Then the real story is something that was a threat to the current world. Where status quo is a better option.

Unless rocks beats imu and they kill his wife and lord the corpse infront of him and he goes berserk.

Idk, but kaido/wb still need to dip/get beat as well. Since theyre not in the official narrative other than being rock pirates.

[brisk jay]

the ⭕ and ❎ meanings in japan complement my theory

O = good, just, correct, official
X = bad, evil, inept, misfit, outcast
but one piece is game of contraries

the Ancient Kingdom's flag was a cross of stars, but was redesigned by GOverment to be a bunch of circles

Note that the colours are reverse in western
⭕ good, but red = bad
❎ is bad, but green = good
and the emojis are all japanese (Emo = emoshon + ji = character)

[brisk jay]

• SWORD is paraideologic
• Drum has a flag of protest
• Chopper is a misfit, too different for his reindeers group
• Baroque Works is not a pirate organization and has a cross

[winter wraith]

pin this. Luffy's strawhat will be revealed at the climax of the series to be imbued with a zoan devil fruit. I believe it to be crafted from a smaller piece extracted from the giant hat locked away in Imu's lair. Imu doesn't destroy the hat lest the fruit rematerialize outside of their global periphery. This revelation also entails the most dramatically effective moral dilemma narratively possible for Luffy to face, a challenge to the legitimacy of his dreams. I believe the hat imbues the wearer with the will of its zoan progenitor, and possibly bestows Luffy distinctive devil fruit powers that could be cleverly sublimated somehow into his already varied skillset. This relies on a prior assumption that the whole of Luffy's narrative journey is an empirical result of Shanks' direct hand in deliberately initiating his life's path. Following this logic, it would be easily inferenced that Shanks set Luffy off on his journey to fulfill the parameters of some yet to be discerned prophecy, a inexplicably recurrent motif in One Piece, i.e. murals, Shyarly vision, inheritance of will, promises outlasting time, the list goes on and on. The impact of the revelation Luffy would undergo, having known his entire journey was dictated to him from the start, would be the most important moral battle Luffy could possibly face. It is supremely in character to think Luffy would abandon such a important piece of iconography that has been shown as core to his identity, for the sake of preserving the integrity of his dream, selfishly substantiating his title as a pirate by turning his back on what is most likely a very globally altruistic cause hidden with the prophecy behind Shanks' intentions. This would also mean Vegapunk's development of devil fruit power conferral was not the first instance, and that maybe each instance had its own distinctive process. Also, I think Imu being "The World" means he's the sea, sea prism, some sea shit variation, and is a direct physical

representation of the ocean's hold on the world of One Piece. The endgame will invole the "flipping" of the world, ocean becomes land, land becomes ocean, the globe will become a pokeball, with the red line ocean leading to the now inverted X of reverse mountain, where the true One Piece lies. As for what the One Piece is, its probably antipsychotic meds or something.

[limber nova]

Nah we know the one piece is related to activate the ancient weapons and that luffy will destroy the red line as already confirmed by that witch from fishman island

And if the one piece was left by joyboy he would only want someone with the sun god nika fruit to activate it so he probably did some special measures and im sure the one piece is located somewhere hidden that normally pirates can’t get to even if they tried

Sort of like the skypeia entrance but this is more designed for someone with the sun god nika fruit only opened if it recognizes joyboy like the robot on egghead

Could the devil fruits be reincarnations of people or wills from the void century?

[gritty kite]

I assumed eris being from lulusia could be a thing, either that or there are more buccaneers / Davy there

#spoilers message

[broken seal]

It is probably a thing but it wouldn’t be either of those. Eris met the Davy clan on GV

[raw scarab]

I was thinking about the mural and re-reading the early chapters of elbaf last night. One thing that we seem to get is two people who represent the sun god in ways that somewhat overlap (Loki and Road.) Road has his helmed skull helmet, his giant animal followers, and humans who are basically surviving in his city terrarium. Loki spends time in the first world, having his animal friends, human followers. Loki himself a horned giant with ancient blood who lives around a giant tree. I wonder, was one form of the sun god a titan? Do the mice, snake and raven represent the lunarians, minks and dragons/ancient giants? The fact Loki has snake eyes perhaps connected. They originally served the original ancient giant sun god? Is the figure on the far left of the mural similar to what the original sun god was? I am unsure if these similarities are just elbaf bias, or if that giant sword sticking out of elbaf was the sun gods weapon at one point and it was a titan during the 1st world. Is Road replicating the Eve Tree on the Redline, the castle that was their before the holy land took over? Is the figure to the left of the mural actually referred to as the sun god at one point in history??

[raw scarab]

This is why Imu has demon/beast followers, it might be trying to trying to recreate the old sun god, but with a twisted view. We have to consider that Imu actually is the sun god from the first age. Imu retook the redline from the ancient Kingdom. The humans and D clan fought against the old gods. That is why Saturn and Warcury were shocked Luffy and Elbaf were working together. In reality, the D clan and ancient giants are natural enemies, since the ancient giants served the original sun god, and Luffy represents the usurpers at a time in history.

[limber nova]

This is a good theory

[muted valley]

Did we ever get how wano filled with wano? I know they said rainwater. However so much water is there that its constantly flowing as a waterfall into the ocean. Thats more than a rainfall ammount. It has to be completely filling up at a greater if not equal rate to be loosing that water.

Ontop of that was the lake all fresh or salt water?

Because I know they said wano filled with rain water over time. When walls went up. I wonder if the ancient weapon has something to do with water displacement. Since the whole water scenerio of wano makes no sense. Yet its not draining even as its pouring out of the country.

[fringe hemlock]

i like how nobody brings up mr WATER Law being the only one other than Robin present for this convo

not sure how to apply it but its a clue fs, the water preservation reminds me of the eternal youth surgery

[swift cosmos]

So as I brought up in #also-manga It is highly unlikely that Kuma went to Amazon Lily during his warlord days based on the fact that Boa had it that marine ships can only be two miles out form Amazon Lily

And during her introduction scene, there was no indication that Kuma ever landed there during her reign

(Finally I can post pictures and links to support my argument now!)

[muted valley]

I think law hasn't a real connection for this. But just thinking about what tha ancient weap could do.

It either has the power to build the walls or supply the water. Depending on what unique aspects wano has and assuming they used the weapon to keep their country isolated at the start.

Don't see any way to build the walls of wano. Without some ancient weapon. Due to sheer size and the filled water.

But both the water flowing into the ocean would do something as would being able to build land?

[limber nova]

Even more so that I think joyboy failsafed the one piece because of it is to control the ancient weapons he wouldn’t want people to discover it only the one who ate the nika fruit because if anyone can find it so can imu and the gorosei or holy knights can find it if someone like Blackbeard or shanks can find it

Also we saw that he can bind his haki with objects so he probably did it to the nika fruit and that haki will activate the one piece

[raw laurel]

I think there was another gorsei 38 years ago.

The name of that gorsei is ceres.

All the gorsei are named after planets which are named after Roman gods.

There is a dwarf planet named ceres also a Roman god.

It was reclassified as a dwarf planet and before that it was called an asteroid but before that 1800s it was called the missing planet.

[limber nova]

@remote silo thoughts?

[remote silo]

I really like that conclusion. sorta makes me think about how Zoro came up with a double factor authentication in Alabasta so that they could spot imposters

You thinking Roger and his crew were sitting in front of the closed entrance to the one piece? Could be all the poneglyphs are freely available maybe but not access to Joyboy’s treasure?

[limber nova]

Maybe or maybe it’s a portal to the one piece. Another thought I had is the one piece is probably one of the ancient weapons to destroy imu or the mother flame to make luffy gain infinite stamina in his gear 5 form

Like the the theory I had before that the one piece is in a hidden void century kingdom that has tech way beyond their current tech

Would be cool if joyboy can talk to luffy when they get there and he unlocks more of his devil fruit and joyboy will help the strawhats know how to defeat the gorosei and imu

Or when luffy fights imu joyboy will come out and talk telepathically to luffy and imu

[remote silo]

I definitely think Luffy is gonna eat the mother flame at some point. It’s almost like Joyboy was a one man band we’re trying to piece back together. We got the drums (heart), percussions (hand clap/bit of a stretch but it’s a cute idea); perhaps the mother flame also has its own unique signature or rhythm.

Maybe that’s one half of what’s necessary, which is why the sun/mother flame maybe is in the clutches of the giant shadow monster. Wouldn’t be surprised if it’s all about a specific rhythm mixed together.

Personally tho I think with the missing whatever it is, once that is retrieved I think anyone will be able to open the one piece. maybe that would change the nature of the treasure itself depending on the harmonics of one’s rhythm.

Pulling the following observations from the text to how I’m not just being thoughtless:

• Luffy has been wanting a musician since day one
• Oda has tons of musical references all throughout, with the earliest I can think of being Jango inspired by Michael Jackson
• Punk music keeps showing up; punk hazard, Captain Kidd who iirc has punk named attacks
• We got fricken’ Rocks, an obvious nod to R&B

[remote silo]

Or when Lily is standing behind the door to the one piece when it’s opened, having just arrived from the void century!

[raw laurel]

One idea I have is I think Kidd gets the mother flame

[remote silo]

I'd be down and I can see it

[muted valley]

It doesn't seem he failsafed the fruit though, its implied that since it has a will of its own, it will not be subject to others intentions. Hence why the wg couldn't keep it. Ontop of that it wasnt entirely sure if it would awaken. Since no one awakened it in over 800y. The gorosei were going on about what they knew and had 0 evidence other than history of it never being in wg hands. As well as no awakenings in their time alive.

Nika seems to preceed joyboy, where joyboy is the last incarnation of Nika. So itd be more Nika's will which was shared by Joyboy/Luffy.

Could say the aspect of its free will is a failsafe, just not a failsafe as an action that's was intended to happen.

[last estuary]

Harald's "miserable failure" may mirror Lily's " great mistake" as both seem to conceal a deeper purpose. While Lily's "mistake" was later revealed to be an intentional act meant to preserve history, Harald's downfall might hold a similar complexity.
It's possible that Harald's so called failure stemmed from his inability or refusal to inherit the abyss. Perhaps he consciously rejected it. This change of heart may have prompted him to summon Loki and Jarul on that fateful day. After all, what failure could there possibly be when Elbaph was already heading to the direction Imu desired? If anything, the fault lies entirely with Imu for delaying matters since the negotiation had been on the table for quite some time.

Pekkori's ritual
Pekkori, the village mayor, directed his people in a ritual to summon the "devil." It was marked by a pentagram resembling the abyss which further deepens this connection. Perhaps Harald was instructed to draw the magic circle as part of the rites of initiation into Imu's service. This could explain the pentagram later seen within the throne room; the very same one later utilized by Shamrock and Gunko. It also doesn’t seem coincidental that Harald stood in the exact same spot where the magic circle appears in the current storyline.

A mysterious figure makes his presence known and goes straight for the fruit. The same lightning effect is shown manifesting, suggesting a shared power or origin. Shanks and Gaban seem to have sensed this unsettling surge of abnormal haki, particularly Gaban, who later heads to the palace after detecting a similar presence in the present day.
It has already been established that they can teleport on their own if they are close enough to the target, as Saturn demonstrated on Egghead. However, an abyss must already exist to teleport from a more distant location. This explains why Saturn had to make the call to summon the remaining Gorosei. In Gunko’s case, she seemingly force-summoned both Sommers and Killingham, neither of whom were aware it was happening i.e. one moment Sommers was in his room, and the next, he found himself in Elbaph.
Gunko also appears disgruntled when informed that those without the mark cannot travel through the abyss pentagrams, meaning they had to sail back manually. Their plan was to make port and use one of the ships to take the children held hostage to the Holy Land, which also supports my point that they used teleportation to reach Elbaph in the first place. A valuable bargaining tool which they ultimately transform into a sickly game for their own amusement.

Imu is not omniscient. He likely failed to realise that Harald was actively denying his mark, dismissing it instead as a simple failure to inherit. Interestingly, the Holy Knights seem to hold Harald in high regard especially when even someone like Sommers ask if they were in Elbaph to pay a visit to his grave. Imu's true goal is to subjugate Elbaph, transforming it into a puppet nation by instilling Dorry and Broggy as its new kings; leaders in name, but slaves to his will.

"... before it's too late."

What does Shanks mean by this?
It feels like a warning about something irreversible that was about to happen. He mentioned that they got along well in the Holy Land, but since they were probably under surveillance, given their background, they couldn’t speak freely. This implies that Shanks already knew about Harald joining the World Government and the repercussion that comes with it. It's almost as if he had gone through a similar process himself.
Becoming part of Imu’s ranks demands surrendering one’s freedom and living in eternal servitude. Gunko’s story exemplifies this. When fragments of her old memories resurfaced, Imu immediately possessed her.
Imu also possessed Saturn during the God Valley, proving that those under Imu’s control are nothing more than puppets on strings.

Harald sought to align Elbaph with the World Government, but Imu's words reveal a stark contrast, “this country would have been subjugated long ago...” Clearly, their visions diverge. where Harald saw alliance, Imu saw domination.
Much like the ultimatum he once received; to slay Rocks in exchange for entry into the World Government’s fold. Harald was likely extended a similar offer: join their ranks, bend the knee, and serve under Imu. But his past would not allow it to be so simple.
Years earlier, he defied the Government’s will by attacking one of their ships to protect the people of Enishi, a non-affiliated nation that had once aided him and Elbaph during the famine. That act of rebellion, though born of loyalty and honor, marked him as a risk.
Therefore, they wanted some semblance of control over Harald, like putting a leash on a dog.

The emphasis on the left arm

A recurring motif throughout these events is the left arm. A detail that seems too consistent to be coincidental.

• Sommers’ abyss mark is positioned on his left arm.
• The X mark of the Straw Hats may share a symbolic or historical connection
• Gunko uses her left arm to make the call
• Killingham, Sommers, and the woman in the flashback each wear an armband on their left arm, bearing a symbol similar to Shanks’.
• Many have assumed Shanks was born with the tattoo, but that doesn't appear to be the case. In Chapter 19, we see his left arm from multiple angles, and he's also wearing short sleeves and yet there's no sign of a tattoo. This strongly suggests he acquired it later, possibly during his time in the Holy Land.
• Even Brogy's loss of his left hand could tie into this recurring pattern (or coincidental)
• CDs symbolizes the duality between creation and corruption. Imu being the progenitor and his actions further reinforce this duality. His right arm seems tied to creation as we see him conjure a book with his right hand to summon weapons, where as his left arm manifests destruction and death. Imu used his left hand to summon a pentagram for Domi Reversi, aligning perfectly with this symbolic connection.
• Harald was positioned on his right, which suggests that Oda is hiding something from us. As I mentioned earlier, the mark bearing the abyss has typically been depicted on the left arm up to this point.

Saturn’s violent and unnatural death, seemingly brought about by Imu, reinforces the recurring theme of corruption and collapse. This remains purely hypothetical, but it appears that Imu stripped Saturn of his abyss, and the lifespan he had sacrificed in exchange for an undying body and unnatural strength became the price he ultimately paid. The loss of that sustaining force triggered the inevitable collapse of his body, leading to his demise. Even Shanks bears a faint echo of this connection: the tattoo once marked on his left hand, later lost to the Lord of the Coast, mirrors Harald’s own position above the "supposedly" abyss, which I pointed out earlier.

Meanwhile, the guards stationed outside the throne room remained eerily unaware of the chaos unfolding within. This suggests that Harald, anticipating his loss of control, may have ordered them to stab and “kill” him before he was fully consumed—an act of tragic foresight meant to preserve what little humanity he had left.
In the end, I found it rather strange that Harald was shrouded in darkness, especially since we already know what he looked like from his portrait, earlier. Oda typically uses this kind of visual concealment for characters he intends to formally introduce later, suggesting there may be more to Harald’s transformation than what we’ve been shown.
Even more curious, the guards who ultimately stab him appear completely normal, showing no sign of possession or corruption.
It’s also reasonable to assume that the dialogue, “Your Majesty?!!”, is spoken by the guards carrying out the stabbing, since Jarul clearly calls out to Harald by name. This fits a common trope in storytelling: when a character requests to be sacrificed, the person performing the act often shouts the victim’s name during or immediately after the deed. This shows a moment of panic and helplessness from his guards before his transformation and subsequent** rampage.**

TL; DR** Deal with the Devil**
Imu wanted to rein Harald in by offering him a deal — converting him into his servant through the power of the abyss, and in return, Elbaph will finally join the World Government. However, Harald likely had a change of heart, which prompted him to summon Jarul and Loki that day to discuss something important. Since Imu is often portrayed as impatient, he pressured Harald to perform the ritual, which Harald covertly resisted. Imu hadn’t foreseen this defiance, and the failure to inherit the abyss is likely what he later referred to as the “failure.”
Deals often have consequences. In this series, where strong emphasis is placed on willpower, Harald was likely able to overcome Imu’s will. But as the ongoing ritual backfired, the power turned on him, causing Harald’s own will to gradually fade and transform into something entirely different.
With the last spark of humanity remaining before being consumed by the void, Harald likely commanded the guards to kill him.

[sinful lily]

Has it sunk in for anyone else that we’re probably getting a 2nd timeskip. Kind of forgot about it with all the god valleys stuff

[raw laurel]

I believe we will get another time skip but I also think there will be another ace death.
This time it’s jinbei

[swift trellis]

Just throwing it out there.. What if Rocks has the Ope Ope No Mi and uses the surgery on Blackbeard. Maybe why Blackbeard can't be killed from his second devil fruit.

[graceful vessel]

Watch out, your genius is showing

[zinc meteor]

Devil Imu = probably an alien looking for a world brimming with Sea Water. He doesn't like the sun coz it makes the sea level lower which is why he stole it, this enraged the locals yet they lost.
Ship under Devil Imu = probably the locals that joined Devil Imu. Imu liked them so he let them be on top of the world later on.
Devil Fruit = Devil Imu's gift to the losers of the 3rd world. "Wreck havoc onto the surface, but never go deep into the sea".

Sea Imu = Devil Imu evolved coz of sea water, he used this form to create the void century.
Sea = probably loves the people which is why although Imu is controlling the devil fruits, Nika fruit still appeared.

Queen Imu = she is probably tasked by the Devil Imu to make sure the Joyboy resurrection never occurs again. She betrayed Demon Imu and joined "God of the Sun"
Zunesha = mode of transport for animals, ships, humans, small mother flames from their islands onto the red line.
Red Line = where Celestial Dragons finalyl did the right thing/kicked out to collect mother flames again to power up the "Ship that looks like from the 3rd World" to power up more factory to probably make more of them.
Arc Maxim = GOD Enel let Sun God along coz he's mid then they both duke out the Dragonon Imu and the Serpent.

Dragon Imu = evolved and calls himself God of Earth Now
Serpent of Hell = a friend of Devil Imu. Imu lost faith to locals coz they betrayed him again even after the void century, now he asked for backup. "Yo bro, lets wring the planet dry and look for another one" "Bet".

Engineers = GOD Enel brought them from the moon. These Engineers were probably made during the third world but got temporary sent to the moon to save the tech from Devil Imu's destruction.
Small Mother Flame at the Sky = while GOD Enel and Mid Nika dukes the Imus, the locals are trying to make the sea level lower to weaken the Imus.
Fishmen = for so long, they are cut out from the land people to avoid intel sharing coz Imu resides within the sea.

[pale cradle]

The second world paragraph already makes sense so much

Its like everything was still and then imu(god of earth/forest) sent demons joyboy opposed people of day clan(D clan as d stands for half moon dreamed and people of full moon(all the supporters of joboy dreamed that they win) and humanity (all the nations of world goverment) helped imu and k!lled joboy and then they ascended to grand line(celestial dragons) and then posidon(of that time) enraged and filled the sea

And in FIRST WORLD nika jus casually hanged arounf boys freeing slaves and all and imu found out took his serpent of hell fire and dwfeated nika and then made the red line out of the serpent of hell fire which was deafeated by suborrdinate of nika and has a X mark on it

[sick wolf]

@ashen kestrel the #manga channel would be a more suitable place to post random videos in

This channel is for discussing theories

[ashen kestrel]

Actually, it was my theory and I was actively typing it out but got distracted because of slowmode. But sure guy. You sure are powerful

[sick wolf]

Hey you’re more than welcome to type out your theory anytime you want

It’s just that you sent a random AI video of Luffy laughing and said nothing else

[ashen kestrel]

You already deleted my post before I could. Slowmode causes people to tab off. Tabbing off leads to being distracted. I was coming right back, it's not exactly a high traffic channel at the moment. It was a helpful visual aid for how my theory of laugh tale will go. At this point you already told me to fuck off

!prune (8)

[sick wolf]

If you genuinely posted that video to attach it to a theory of yours then that’s my mistake, apologies. With that being said you can go ahead and send that video here again if you’re planning on posting a theory alongside it. Hope this clears up any sort of confusion

[ashen kestrel]

I'm sorry if I come off as an asshole I have aspergers it's not my intent

[sick wolf]

That’s okay, I’m just trying to help out 🙏 as long as we’re on the same page

[ashen kestrel]

I apologize for the powerful comment. Out of line

[boreal linden]

I would actually love this. Garp and roger never defeated him at all he just sacrificed himself for his kid!

[muted valley]

I wouldn't, Id bet Lotta money on BB being able to use df being due to a special characteristic he has. Something that most ppl dont, and has something to do with how df apply to the individual.

Im keen on the 3 soul individual theory, where we see people with 2 souls aka cavanedish. And we know that dfs binds to a person/soul.

It wouldn't surprise me if bb got the 3 souls from God valley due to some df shenanigans.

[lean shadow]

I think I know who imu is.
"In Greek mythology, Gaia was the primordial deity of the Earth, the mother of all life, and one of the first gods to exist. She emerged from Chaos and created a mate, Ouranos (Uranus), the sky, and together they had many children, including the Titans and the cyclops. Later, to free herself from Ouranos's cruelty, she conspired with her children to overthrow him.
"
It makes sense that imu is called the world.
It makes sense that we havent seen uranus yet.
It makes sense that imu is obsessed with giants.
There is even mentions of cyclops which would be the 3 eyes people that were connected to the void century text reading.
As for how much of it follows the legends idk.
This is the first time I thought imu could be a female.

[elfin flame]

Imu is being heavily hinted at being the earth god from the harley texts.
The earth god defeated the ocean god the sun god is fighting the earth god.

[steady prism]

@harsh yacht not sure what you’re trying to insinuate but we don’t allow cross-series discussions, even games. You’re free to talk about it in #games i guess

[elfin flame]

still too many mysteries with devil fruits and why the sea cursed them and allat
and we haven't seen a water type logia yet which is pretty sus imo since a light logia is more farfetched than a water logia

[muted valley]

Idk how its more far-fetched, but it is wierd no water abilities.

If we go by VP on fruit being dreams/desires,, then someone wanting to move light speed makes sense. So would someone who'd want to be part of the ocean.

Unless all water df and water logia just naturally causes some issue to the sea issue. Where they all merge with the sea due to the nature of df. Where any one with a water logia merges with the sea due to the dream/feelings and nature of df. So we will never see it because that 1 fruit interacts with it all so crazily.

[elfin flame]

Who would want to be wax?
Id personally pick being water

And since wax exists water isn't far fetched
Considering we have dragons, a fruit that defies death, a fruit that can make someone immortal and some that make ppl literally gods, being water dosent seen that far fetched
Now sure the world is mostly water but then if having the water df meant controlling ALL water then greenbull should be unstoppable on most land areas but he still got folded by shanks
So the water logia wouldn't have to be too op, but it does sound plausible with it's drawbacks
Maybe someone down the line will have it

[raw scarab]

The series is adding more elements that can influence both the creation of devil fruits, and why they are cursed by the ocean. We are seeing more 'wifi' type of concepts in one piece, where information and energy can far extend beyond even continents. It is possible the devil fruits are stil tied to some type of device or object of their creation, and that object is being influence by water. With regards to devil fruits, I have to wonder if some devil fruits were created first (zoan fruits), and then evolved from there. Perhaps the technology first worked on the dna/souls of creatures, and could expand to become more and more abstract, or it could absorb the dreams of humans along with their souls.

[muted valley]

Dude someone wanted to be a jacket lol, the who would is irrelevant and how you and I would is silly. Since even in irl there are people with extremely wierd proclivities.

Yes someone would obv want to be water. Thats the point, but the problem is water has a actual issue with df due to its weakness. Why that is is most likley why we dont see anyone with water. Or those who have had water, have some issue due to the sheer incompatibility water had with df. Like my point, someone would want to be the ocean. So anyone who had that and ate a df might just get sucked into the ocean.

Or because of the df incompatibility with water, those who have a water df makes them unable to use their df power.

Or we just havnt seen a water df yet, seeing as the df power listing can be anything and everything. With the op world so big.

[remote silo]

Kind of neat to think about potential candidates who may have/had a water logia.

One that came to mind while considering that would be Davy Jones. Perhaps he is quite literally the abyss, Davy jones locker. The bottom of the ocean would house all the world’s treasure.

Perhaps there’s a bargain or pact where Imu must provide sacrifice in the form of treasures that they and Davy agreed to long ago. When the weapon is used, it creates these giant permanent water pits, a mystery I desperately need answers to lol, and the sea level rises in response. Most of the sunk world is at the bottom of the ocean and Imu seems to occasionally push other islands down to it.

If Devil fruits are also considered treasure via this pact, it could explain why its users are drawn towards Davy jones locker.

Essentially Imu and Davy could have made a devil’s bargain to defeat Joyboy during the void century. Davy was promised the world, while Imu had a different dream. They can’t hurt each other is my guess, and that is a restriction inherited by the Davy clan whereas the CDs would act as a loophole for Imu to wipe out the Davy clan, solving what makes the CDs so valuable.

[small vessel]

Question, has anyone collected instances of that cross symbol in One piece? Its double-pronged points have a very specific shape - there's the cross in Kuma's church, Caribou wears it on his shirt (IIRC there's a scene of him praying) - and I noticed caribou's cross looks very much like the one part of the Kozuki family crest

[lean shadow]

I had the thought that he or she has a connection with earth since they called it the world,but I just cant think of a devil fruit that would be so impressive.
Like we already have green bull and pica.....what would an earth df even be and why would it allow him to somehow give others demonic energy/powers and regeneration.
The one thing that makes me think its a guy is the connection to nefetary lily but who knows maybe she was her daughter.
Its just odd that oda hasnt revealed uranus yet but we already know who poseidon is and pluton.
And if it was just a df being I dont understand why would rocks call it the world.

[small vessel]

It also seems to appear in Imu's room with the giant straw hat. That seems significant

[muted valley]

The Kuma church cross youre referring to is an actual Christian iconography. It isnt just a one piece thing, as well as crosses and the Bible are cannon in OP world.

Idk about the caribou cross youre referring to but youre talking about a cross mouline.fouling. each of those different crosses ussually has a slight historical significance. However its just all variations of the cross for the most part. Ussually denominating certain sects/alliances/groups.

[elfin flame]

could be but keep in mind that all water dosen't affect df users, it's just sea water
df users can still take a bath or shower without getting weakened

[elfin flame]

the earth god df could be the best answer to this
there are 4 such gods in total and hence the conclusion that we have 4 god fruits with luffy having sun god nika and dragon likely possessing the wind god fruit and we still have the land god and forest god fruit
Imu could either posess forest god or land god
The harley scriptures do a very good job at representing all the gods each overlooking a certain era with it currently being the 3rd world. I believe the sun god will bring about the end to the 3rd world era and bring about the 4th world abolishing the current world government and celestial dragons and getting rid of slavery

[steady prism]

It’s a good question but probably better to ask it in #manga-serious

[lean shadow]

Why would such a fruit be any different from what pica does?
Why would it be op?
Really feels like green bulls df is something imu should have had instead if he is something like mother nature.
Also its plausible that dragon has a df,but then again if he did why would oda never show it in real action.
Literally feel like its gonna be anything other than a df power....it could really be a mechanical bird megazord that he has kinda like shield ship.
It sucks but I dont know if dragon can even fight admirals and I would lean towards no even if he is garps son.
His character looks more and more like the strategy type guy that cant do anything else.
I wonder if having conqueror haki but be weak and yet is able to be a leader for people stronger than him would make him more amazing than if he was an actual top tier.
Remember when oda did the whole fake straw hats thing.
Everyone followed them until they found out it was a fake and everyone instantly quit.

[wild vector]

I'm really doubtful the fruits are actually god models.

The origins of the mythos were probably really good devil fruit users. Like the forest god having been a plant logia.

This mythos comes from tribal times.

[muted valley]

Water to a certain depth does. It aint just sea water. Dude

Rain doesnt but if it floods itll affect them

[pure raven]

This is a theory, since imu has control over the ocean (she cleansed the world previously, this could be a devil fruit power or something else it don’t matter she can control the ocean and shi) she on purpose made it that devil fruit users can’t swim

[lean shadow]

I do wonder if judge experiments were actually accessing science before devil fruit powers or maybe said science was stolen and turned into devil fruits.
Kinda like in naruto where kids of kaguya had powers that she had,but everyone else got the power from the tree.
And maybe they need all the dfs back in order to become an unstoppable being.
And bb is trying to do that by collecting all the df,basically using them to access the tree which I assume is called eve and probably give birth to a special fruit that has all the df powers in it.
Like imagine,if someone has a df power and eats another they die,but what if you eat a df that has all powers,you get all the powers.
And I am pretty sure by that logic bb ability to have 2 df must come from him not being alone.
He might be the only surivor of imus demonication power so its bb and his demon in one body.
Not sure if he can eat a third df.
I can however imagine his plan either being sucking imu into dark hole so the demon inside of him can fight him in I guess home ground or so the demon can exit his body and fight.

[muted valley]

Idk about control over the ocean.

Seems its a ancient weapon that raised sea water, which flooded the world. That flooding and mass death caused a disruption into normal communications and travel.

Imagine a place like the US being flooded and every place below 1kft sealevel is gone. All ports/all places now are islands with no infrastructure to travel. Litterally blasting everyone back to isolated towns. Travel is non existent because no place was made to be a port for travel.

So every place starts at square 1, and can't talk to the nearest town.

A cleansing would be causing mass isolation and death. Then going in and systematically controlling the people. In 3 generations people will not even know or understand what it used to be like before the flooding/isolation.

Realistically that's how a cleansing would work with what we know. Its actually simple. By causing everyone to be isolated you can easily build up and control the population through trade/building them up. All while you set boundaries like dont talk about X or else.

In a period of 100y like the void century that's 3 to 5 generations, easily enough time for the last generation not to know what was going on before the start of the cleansing.

[raw scarab]

for a giant it would be 1 generation. Realistically in current times, there are giants great grandparent giants who lived during the void century.

[muted valley]

Actually like half to 3/4 a generation.

Which is why elbaf is also still holding onto old world views. Greatbeard/jaurl i forget his name. He's about 400yo or so, so he's halfway to the void century and his great grandkids are in school during the fires.

But the giants are the exception in the cleansing, humans are the majority and are the main target by the wg.

So taking what I said above, its easy control info in a scenerio like my proposed cleansing. While the giants are the ones who are the hardest to control. Ontop of being self sufficient/strong. It makes them the hardest ones to control due to their culture.

Which all lines up with the story. As well as why elbaf dont exactly know what happened in the void century but still have many ties to the old ways due to their isolation from the wg.

The oldest giant is still born halfway to the void century but time has forgotten the exact event. It was never fully orally passed down commonly. So some likley know but for common knowledge its gone. Which is part of what the wg wants when they erase info/cleanse the world.

[elfin flame]

But it does feel weird to be introduced to a brand new power system this late into the story

[muted valley]

I dont think its a new power system, I think its going to move back to DF based abilities. Just more on the origin of the DF and how it actually is incorporated into the world. Where it has some sort of transiences with rules. That can be broken will Haki.

So like Haki is will/desire controlled expressed by an individual.

DF will be something like emotions/feelings/desires expressed by collective consciousness of the world over time.

Df while allowed in its world is tied down somehow so that it can be used. While Haki can break it since Haki is a expression of breaking its ties with DFs interactions on the world in that current time.

How DF is allowed to be expressed in the world. Has some ties to something greater but it isnt originally the way we see it. Its currently bound by a set of rules we dont know but some like maybe IMU do. Which explains why IMU has so many powers. Thats because it ties to how DF are actually tied to this world. As well as why it seems demonic/new.

[spark fjord]

solid theory

[limber nova]

What if all zoan fruits are connected to the mink tribe?

[remote silo]

I'm not sure though they sure do have a lot of parallels. I think the mink tribe are the allies of Joyboy (hence the white of their transformation), and it seems that Zunesha has, perhaps, been keeping these allies of Joyboy safe for 800 years by being a moving island for them. Very effectively too, until very recent times

If that's the case, then Joyboy or someone sure wanted to make certain they would be as protected as possible. That would suggest they may have been very important during the void century. I don't think it's out of the question that zoans originate from them

You know, if there are three factions at play here - Imu, Joyboy, and Davy Jones - it would kind of line up with the three known DF types. Joyboy's faction was the zoan fruits, Imu's was the paramecia, and Davy's was the logia type

[wild vector]

I think 441 makes it very clear. The reason blackbeard could take the devil fruit from a dead body before it reincarnated was because of the darkness fruit.

It negates the ability in someone alive. But maybe right after death it can suck the soul of the devil fruit into its darkness.

The line Marco said regarding his body is some side effect of the darkness fruit. Since he tells ace he must have noticed it now, it implies it's not related to his genetic background but from the inheritance of the fruit.

[muted valley]

Kinda think there's some relationship, since minks are a single race but have so many different characteristics.

While also their sulong form is closer to an awakening.

Yet minks just might be like Fishman/mermaids where their genetics of animals just are bizarre and a dog minks x cat minks can make a monkey minks bc a monkey mink was a ancestor.

Similar to how Fishman genetics works.

But fishmen dont have a sulong alternative form.

[fringe hemlock]

In the epic of Gilgamesh, there’s a character named Utnapishtim who was instructed by a god to create an ark to survive a flood, much like Noah. He was instructed through a prophetic dream that warned him of the impending flood, and was rewarded for his faith in the gods with immortality.

The 11th century Indonesian king Jayabaya (or Joyoboyo) also had prophetic dreams, and unified his nation after a civil war. He was such a beloved ruler that he was viewed as a messianic figure.

After Utnapishtim told his story to Gilgamesh, Gilgamesh went back to his home to rule it and died shortly after, giving up on his goal of immortality.

In One Piece, Joyboy was introduced in the same arc as the Ark Noah, whose “Noah” went unidentified. I believe that Joyboy is that Noah, the one who built the ark or had it built, and I think that Oda is using the direct allusion to the Biblical Noah to make a more subtle allusion to Joyboy playing an Utnapishtim role.

Roger holds elements both of Gilgamesh (bold, chases women, died in his home town after his adventure was over) and his rival Enkidu (wild man, died of a disease rather than in combat, leaving his rival behind). Looking at him just from the Gilgamesh perspective, it feels clear that Joyboy is his Utnapishtim, the man whose story compelled him to end his journey and go home. From this, we can line him up other details of Joyboy.

First, Joyboy is said to be the first pirate, but is somehow able to speak to Roger, so he’s either immortal in the literal Utnapishtim sense, or the symbolic “inherited will” sense that both the Epic of Gilgamesh and One Piece seem to respect more. I think its more likely to be the former since the point is for Gilgamesh’s symbolic immortalization to contrast Utnapishtims.

Second, I think that Joyboy’s status as the “first pirate” could be tied to him being the first to set sail after the Void Century flood. Pirates aren’t just sailors but criminal sailors, and Marduk, the god who caused the flood, obviously wanted everybody to die, so it makes sense that any survivor would be deemed a criminal.

[raw scarab]

they can activate it with energy steroids

[fringe hemlock]

Third, if Oda is connecting the prophetic dreams of Utnapishtim and Jayabaya, its awfully convenient that Jayabaya also had a prophecy about water. He dreamed of a giant white crocodile battling a giant white shark over the water between the land and sea. Things like Arlong and Crocodile being parallel villains, Croc being freed in Impel Down with Jinbei, and Hody Jones’s white form all feel like they could reference this. Based on that, I think the main conflict of the Void Century was around water access. This would add extra weight to the first Poneglyph being shown in an arc that centered around drought, Alabasta, AND to Joyboy’s name first being uttered underwater. Him having a history with Poseidon could easily be tied to all of this.

dassit :p

[harsh wyvern]

Das deep… like the abyss

[fringe hemlock]

rn im considering how both Vegapunk and Joyboy gave huge apologies, and how Vegapunk basically turned Bonney into the Pacafista version of Poseidon

When VP says Joyboy created the Ancient Weapons, maybe he means he did the same thing for a previous mermaid princess, he gave her control over the sea kings. Vegapunk did it by programming the Pacafistas, but i feel like hypnosis or sumn like that is more likely for the sea kings. It would also be cool if he did it for similar reasons. In Japanese folklore theres a sea princess whose father is a sea dragon, and that myth is referenced very heavily in FMI. Would be sick if the first Poseidon was raised by Sea Kings.

So to figure out the other ancient weapons we just gotta consider what Vegapunk’s Uranus and Pluton are. Sidenote, the Poneglyphs are an obvious analog for Vegapunk’s speech, and the stones broken up and missing feels like the analog for the parts of Vegapunk’s speech that cut out.

It also makes me wonder, if Vegapunk made a perfect clone of himself, what if Joyboy did too? Whatever VPs perfect clone does will be super implicative.

[limber nova]

I was watching a Japanese one piece video and they said that imu is a buddhist considering the fact that the giant strawhat was on a buddhist altar. They talk about connections to the golden city too

https://youtu.be/aBAAJrpflWk?si=eVAC-aDYIQVCjM_P

if any of you want to watch and can understand Japanese I just used the auto translate feature on the captions

[limber nova]

@remote silo thought you might be interested

She makes interesting connections that foreign one piece theorists don’t come up with

[muted valley]

Probably because Japanese education and culture is more in line with how Oda thinks.

So their theories are probably closer and more in line with the knowledge Oda may have and be using for One Piece. (If that makes sense)

[fringe hemlock]

love her videos on the Disney inspirations

[remote silo]

Oh hell yes thank you! Will check this out

[limber nova]

Yeah I know they have the same culture and mentality of thinking as to why their theories might be more accurate and different than western theorists

[muted valley]

Prolly closer to accurate. So many surface level western theories can be so terrible and stupid beyond belief.

[limber nova]

Was joyboy a giant? I remember the giant strawhat on imu’s altar and only a giant can realistically wear that and joyboy might’ve worn it

[muted valley]

The hat seemed big, but could be other medium/big race like buccaneers.

Seeing how davy clan was thought to be Bucaneers. It may be joyboy was a davy clan member who was a bucaneer.

[pure tusk]

Nah it’s too small to be a giant really. Imu is the size of a regular human and that straw hat needs to be way bigger to be a giants

Imu is the size of a regular human and here is a bucaneer compared to a normal person vs a Giant and a normal person they are 3x as big

[tiny agate]

but that straw hat seems big even for kuma who is a bucaneer

[pure tusk]

Not really it seems the perfect size really it would need to be bigger than Imu to be the size of the giant. Kuma also just has a small head in this case as well compared to his body

Joyboy seems to have a typical body shape but so did oden shape really also I just don’t see a point in making joyboy a giant when they already have giants blood

[tiny agate]

in the first pic joyboy seems to be about the size of emeth's head

kuma would be much smaller than emeth's head no?

joyboy could have been a smaller giant or he could have had the power to shrink or grow bigger from the nika fruit

[pure tusk]

Dawn and dusk did a video to scale and joyboys height is about the scale of Kuma you can see how small Luffy is really

[pure tusk]

The only isssue with that is luffys height changes sizes with him but it always reverts back the same thing would have happened with Joyboy. I think Nika being a giant or the first of them is more likely it’s why they worship him so closely

[tiny agate]

or joyboy could have just been a really tall human , cause if we think about 900-800 years ago, people would have been bigger like ancient giants are much bigger than giants of the present time like that humans could have been bigger?

[pure tusk]

I just don’t see the narrative significance really of him being just a big humans really when oda spent so much time building up the bucaneers as well as the lunarians. Giant humans are also descended from giants they were told to use to be the cousins of giants

[tiny agate]

just like whitebeard joyboy could have been a tall human, as for the buccaneers joyboy could have helped them get united with the other races as gaban told they are a hybrid of multiple races so thats why nika is a folklore among buccaneers

[pure tusk]

WB could easily be a buccaneer really

[tiny agate]

i think buccaneers may have had a genetic facial structure? they have a more cube shaped head thats how they are differentiated from other larger races?

they said the buccaneers committed a great crime against the world, what if the buccaneers were the one who transported the poneglyphs as they are said to be very strong, thats why saturn said to kuma his options were either "slavery or death" and "history itself chose them for you"

[pure tusk]

I think that’s Kuma really we can’t really base everything solely off him just roughly the size of a bucaneer

[tiny agate]

hmm

[pure tusk]

My guess the great crime is that they exist which is identical to robins

@tiny agate Have you seen my Uranus theory ? you gotta check it out when you get chance

[tiny agate]

Nope I haven't where can I check it out

[pure tusk]

It’s Theory I wrote on Reddit that got turned into a video I promise you won’t be disappointed let me know your thoughts when ya get a chance!! https://youtu.be/KNAoKnNrvLo?si=SYRygfZ_5stjcyLj

[lean shadow]

marco commented that bb was always weird aka had weird body.
Maybe bb was always awake cuz he was switching between the demon in him.
So half of the day it was teach and half of it was demon teach but it wasnt visible for whatever reason.
Maybe rocks protected him somehow.

[tiny agate]

bro cooked here

[pure tusk]

I spent a year cooking that one😭 but atleast you enjoyed it don’t forget to drop a like. One other thing I wanted to point out that kinda got mentioned but left out was that the shape of the missing piece of Jaya is really similar to the Lulusia weapon

[tiny agate]

oh yeah it seems like a island was just carved out

also about the will of d

what if the Will of D is just the will of the devil fruits, just like how the gomu gomu no mi supposedly avoided the world government,I think the will of D makes certain DFs go to the people bearing the name of D. Like
gomu gomu no mi - Luffy
Ope ope no mi - law
Dark and quake - BB
Rumoured legendary df of dragon
What if the DFs wanted by imu are avoiding him/her through the will of D
(I may be wrong with some of the info here, I am in no way an expert in the one piece Lore am just saying my theory)

[raw scarab]

The fact Big Mom had parents that were 6 feet tall, and they gave birth to a 30 foot kid shows something interesting. I am not sure if the history of the world was people genetically becoming bigger, or if giants were one of the ancestors of a lot of humans, and were getting smaller.

[pure tusk]

It seems like the Will of D is about inherited will and the World government is about UnInherited which is the name of ch 625 and could be the opposite of that

[tiny agate]

hmm

[wild vector]

I don't think he implies it was always weird. He just says his body is weird.

[cerulean token]

Boa Hancock is the daughter of Shakky and Rayleigh!

[drowsy gate]

I can't post pics here yet but there is a scene in Dressrosa where Lucy is disguised and someone says it can't be the real Luffy because the real one is ''20 feet tall'' 👀

So i do believe Joyboy was 7m tall aswell

[calm pond]

I always wondered what the purpose of gunkos different pupils are but now that her colors are revealed, it’s become clear to me that it is hinting at the true nature of imu like people have suspected for so long, that imu has taken control of Nefertari lilys body.

To start with we know gunko holds a special place among the gods knight being known as the devoted blade of god, already we have a special link between the two in addition to the possession that occurs in elbaf.

Next is her blue hair, as a celestial dragon that immediately reminds of me the Nefertiri family, with the assumption being that she’s nefertiri from her mother’s side. Maybe that’s why imu has a special affection for her.

Next is her heterochromia, thematically this would hint at the fact of two beings occupying the same body, with the red obviously being imu.

So in short,
Blue hair -> Nefertiri connection
Two pupils, one red -> imu possessing the body of a Nefertiri

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/738580480437387264/1429506755532034168/image0.jpg?ex=68f66369&is=68f511e9&hm=1e74ee202c19a02efab24c54fe5bd46d91d90843e43bd246268faac4b976ab5e&

[wild vector]

It's just to show the rumors about Luffy.

During enies lobby marines see him all fat and comment how they didn't know he was that big.

It's apart of why people believes fake straw hat Luffy because aside from the bounty, people only really know what he looks like because of the wanted poster.

[wild vector]

That's not bad, if Imu has taken lilys body, then Imu should potentially have a daughter.

Princess for Luffy to save like usual?

[pure tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/feel-me-think-about-it-meme-gif-7715402

[pure tusk]

Interesting I like that I still believe in the bucaneer theory but I like that do you remember what panel that was again

[iron current]

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[muted valley]

I always thought she was just a normal kid, who ATE ALOT and just kept eating and due to OP world logic. She didnt grow wide but grew in all directions. So while she was normal human. W.e. genetic issue she had with hunger causes her to eat so much that she litterally grew more than a average person.

Kinda like the opposite of Luffy who maintains his small stature while shoveling down food. She actually grew and grew resulting in a gaint human.

[raw scarab]

Maybe, although she seemed to be thin as she became a teenager. It was only as she reached middle age and popped out a couple of dozen kids that her figure went. It could be the food, but I think its more her genetics not only made her near giant size, but also gave her insane power.

[muted valley]

That and I forgot when typing that all, she has coc. So it isnt just genetics. Since coc has genetic properties but it also seems to be a anomaly.

So it may just be freak genetics that caused her to eat alot as a kid. Which helped give her the giant size as a little kid. Then as adult she slimmed down some. But its only that way because from birth to kid she was shoveling 100x the calories of a normal person daily.

Her skinny size might be because she was actively pirating and burning the fat off.

Her old age and fat(current time) is just natural for many women to get bigger as metabolism slows. While simultaneously doing less hard work. More solidarity as she manages her empire. While she's eating more.

[shell kettle]

What if when Blackbeard says he wants the world and Xebec calls Imu the world, maybe BB is saying he wants Imu’s powers/abilities, maybe their ability is called the world, maybe he will take Imu’s abilities for the final battle after Imu’s defeat and he is actually the devil portrayed in the mural. Plus it would make Imu more sympathetic if their plan was to exterminate the Ds to stop BB from doing this, supported by Vegapunk’s statement on who’s right and wrong.

[tidal garden]

I have health issues and I don't think I'm going to make it to tomorrow. Where can I find the best OP theories?

I was never into theory-crafting but there's gotta be some good ones, right?

[last estuary]

Look at pins or scroll up

[remote silo]

Hey Greg, I’m sorry to hear this. I hope you defy the odds. But lots of good discussions for you to read thru in here

[muted valley]

Never thought of it this way, I did think Imu has some sort of contract/power with the OP world as a whole that explains the abyss mark and how he can do so many different things/control others. Like its a fruit ability on a scale that is much greater than the average fruit ability.

Average df is person body
Average awakening persons body + local enviorment

While

Imus power is long range, has some sort of rule system, expands onto others, and isnt set by range.

So yeah, you could be right that the ability revolves around the world and may explain why hes ontop the redline since that operates like an antenna for the whole world. Giving him the best location to use his power.

[sick wolf]

@tribal hollow the main manga channels or the off topic channels would be a better place to have casual discussion

This channel is for theory posting

[craggy pumice]

@night whale This has nothing to do in manga theories fake or not

[brisk jay]

thats why Luffy is the Sun God.
Sum of 7 colours (Liberty) = White

[night crag]

I made a theory about Luffy having a rainbow ability with his gear 5. Rainbows have links with freedom and liberty and also Oda is a childhood fan of Super Mario and he has this Rainbow form which we could see a version of with Luffy.

[brisk jay]

cool, i didnt know he was a fan of mario

[night crag]

Rainbows have also been a small theme in Elbaph so maybe we could see a glimpse this arc even

[pure tusk]

Yea I made a similar theory about that as well I think luffy eating the motherflame will make him go super nika like super Mario

[night crag]

I believe that the One Piece treasure is what will give Luffy the full rainbow ability as apparently it is a requirement to have the Nika fruit to use the One Piece

If we see some glimpse of it in Elbaph that means that the One Piece treasure might have originated from Elbaph as Joyboy himself was from Elbaph so that would be interresting

I believe that the big treasure tree Adam itself is very important somehow and it could be that the Nika fruit originated from that tree so it could have some spiritual ties that could boost Luffy when fighting Imu

[neat kraken]

Wait now that you mentioned that the devil fruits might be from the adam tree im starting to think that the Adam tree can absorb people's dreams and convert them into devil fruits. Plus there are so many folktales in Elbaph.

It could also have its roots wrapped around the world but its highly unlikely

[night crag]

I've been thinking about what a One Piece treasure from Elbaph would look like and would fit someone like Joyboy and the first thing that comes to mind is a Viking Helmet but not any helmet, a Winged helmet (would tie to Asterix and the winged cap from Mario 64)

[tribal hollow]

What did i say?

[raw scarab]

I was thinking. Looking at the mural and what was seen on the moon (birka), there is a possibility the sky people were actually subterranean at a point. Not exactly sure why, but it is interesting if you compare the imagery that perhaps the red line itself is hallow inside. Perhaps there was some sort of mining that required darkness, or the god controlling all of this had to live in darkness? It kind of makes sense slaves working in underground man-made islands would protect you from giants and other large creatures.

[raw scarab]

As Loki seems to indicate, the 1st world is a world where the sun is a dead memory. It would be a world where advanced technology could easily seperate the shadow from the human soul. Perhaps that was society, one of darkness where your shadow is sent within the earth to do labor for you.

Adding to this, reversi rules refer to the light and dark pieces. I think whether we talk about Moria zombies or Sugar's toys, its all about slavery amidst themes of darkness. Domni Reversi is really just an extension of these nightmare/darkness properties.

[humble oyster]

Theory time:
The Gorosei, Imu, the Holy Knights, and by extension the Celestial Dragons, are all able to regenerate themselves using the power of souls.
One thing I noticed is that Mary Geoise didn't start making their moves until AFTER destroying Lulusia with the Mother Flame powered Ancient Weapon they possess.
As it was shown, the erasure of Lulusia occurred before and during the Wano Arc. It wasn't until after the fact that we started to learn of all that transpired on Mary Geoise.
A massive influx of souls that was harvested from that entire nation would, in theory, turbo charge everybody. This would also explain why they hold re-occurring hunts of Island Nations. They use their own pawns, the Celestial Dragons, to harvest souls of people they kill. In turn fueling their immortality and regenerative abilities. It would also explain why we never see them make any moves until AFTER Lulusia's destruction. They needed to resupply their energy to be able to make their move against the Straw Hats.
This would also explain why Saturn (with Imu attached) was there on God Valley. To directly harvest souls from the corpses.
It could also explain this twisted system of Celestial Dragons, Slaves, Marines, CP0-9. They are all designed to not only keep the world in check but constantly maintain a constant flow of souls. The Celestial Dragons are also constantly abusing and killing their slaves because it fuels them.
The Ancient Kingdom may have been the one to have invented this power. That would explain why the 20 Kingdom's fought the Ancient Kingdom. To claim this power as their own and erased the Ancient Kingdom from History. Than using this power to live as Gods.
The Nefertari clan saw the other kingdom's lust for immortality and stayed behind while keeping this dreadful secret.
If the people of the world knew their own souls were livestock for the World Government, there would be unrest of untold proportions.

The Ancient Kingdom creating the ultimate weapon..."The Philosopher's Stone"
But than that would lead to another answer to an old question...
The name of the ancient kingdom...
The Philosopher Kingdom

[wild vector]

I feel the "world of darkness" is a reference to Imus ability theme.

Blackbeard was hunting the darkness fruit his whole life. It's possible it's specifically because it can counter Imus ability.

If moria is also some kind of counter to imu, then we could potentially get Luffy turned evil.

If Luffy were reversed we could see the crew taking him on just like they did when his shadow was inside oars.

[remote silo]

It took Luffy himself to finish that fight. Wonder who the Luffy would be in your scenario

[remote silo]

Since they wouldn’t let Clover utter even a syllable of the ancient kingdom’s name, I feel like the name would be universally recognized by anyone in the world even without secret knowledge. So imo it has to be a name that is simple and would catch the attention of any normie. Hence why it’s dangerous to the government.

Personally my money is one: Merry Joy

[wild vector]

There are a ton of details to digest in thriller bark, but this is one I hardly ever thought of.

In chapter 452 we are shown many of the rocks pirates. This spider monkey claims to famous.

It has a very distinct swirl tail.

So what if when taralan was alive, it was a spider who ate a monkey devil fruit.

The body doesn't have many modifications so I'm doubtful it's the work of hogback.

We saw a ton of presumably mink bodies. The earliest number I've seen yet is on the animal zombies.

So if all these rare creatures and rocks pirates were gathered in one place, what if taralan was someone's pet. Maybe a pirate crew or celestials.

If all the other generals were someone famous, then maybe this creature was more than it seemed.

[remote silo]

Something that is also related to the philosophers stone is the ouroboros.

In Egyptian mythology the ouroboros represents the snake as an eternal cycle of renewal and change. Essentially it would usher in the new world from time to time. Viking lore also has a snake that wraps around the world and is closely linked with Ragnarok and the end of the world.

Gnosticism probably has the closest analogue for your theory tho. A few factors for why:

• the snake is black and white
• much like yin and yang, the black and white represent a worldly balance; since this world seems to be predominantly black there’s a clear imbalance
• biblical texts describe leviathan as impossible to pierce or damage, as well as numerous descriptors that line up with a dragon
• attached pic is a drawing made by Cleopatra the Alchemist who supposedly created a philosophers stone (one of four successfully made)

Something you made me think about is how the swirl motif all throughout one piece is also the shape of a coiled snake

[remote silo]

I kinda like it. There is definitely heavy scarring and stitching, so Hogback definitely did some extensive work. But I agree that thriller bark is just chock full of clues and interesting mysteries.

I’ve been of the opinion that thriller bark is one half of GV for a while, so perhaps there’s a chance we may see this character again in some form in the longshot that that’s true.

Something else he resembles is Saturn’s form, to add more parallels between Moira and Imu

Also if we look at Skypeia as a template for the whole of one piece, the red line, also known as the ‘blood-stained snake’, is likely to “eat” Luffy.

I think at some point Luffy will be lost inside the red line, while everyone outside is in terrible danger. He’ll be surrounded by vast unknowable riches that he doesn’t care a bit about. Likely the whole of the ancient kingdom is in the interior of the red line based on what we’ve seen.

The snake in Skypiea was just as invulnerable as the red line, so in my mind it works well

[wild vector]

I mean obvious body replacement scars.

The spiral tail, spotted pattern and a "monkey monkey" speech leads me to that conclusion.

It makes me hope we see more weird Zoan given to an animal/object/bug like scenarios.

[remote silo]

Yeah that has always been truly fascinating. It made me wonder once if the whole world we see in modern times was the result of an ark preservation type of scenario.

Like if most species were wiped off the planet due to, say, an apocalyptic flood, turning inanimate objects like a boulder into a cow would be a very beneficial way to repopulate a dead world. Since animals look so weird throughout the story, would make some kind of sense to view them through the lens of a child drawing what they think animals look like. Easy example being what a sea cow would look like in a kid’s mind (hence, Moomoo).

Maybe Zoans were always intended for things like bugs and objects, at least originally

[wild vector]

Yeah I don't think it's a species

[brisk jay]

Polaris (North Star) is the highest star of the North Hemisphere.
this can be represented in the Empty Throne
You depend on it to navigate thru oceans
and Imu maybe is an allegory to that: you depend on him in this World, everything gravitates him

https://tenor.com/view/one-piece-sterry-sterry-one-piece-stelly-stelly-one-piece-gif-9919522011020526525

[robust lake]

newest cringest will of D theory - it symbolically means the "will of the right"
the meaning of yin and yang can be interpreted in many different ways
yin: left, moon, heart, spirit
yang: right, sun, body, survival

some characters throughout the story that have lost their limbs or gotten scarred:

• luffy's scar over left eye
• shanks' lost left arm
• dragon's tattooed left eye
• kidd's lost left arm
• nekomamushi's lost left arm
• inuarashi's lost left leg
• kyros' lost left leg
• aokiji's lost left leg fighting akainu

the left side (one's spirit) may be scarred. but the right side (one's body) still stands. 🌓

[last estuary]

What if the reason Garp stuck around is because:
Besides the obvious: Garp continuing to stay to reform the marines and training the newer batch of "good" marines.
It wouldn't really surprise me if they struck a deal or something.
To stop the native hunting if Garp continues his role as a marine and as the "hero of the marines," which is essentially a positive reputation for marines thus the World Governemnt, itself.
This is why Garp doesn't like to talk about it and continues his tenure as a marine despite of the horrible shit he witnessed. A sacrifice to stop further unnecessary sacrifices.
We have seen WG brokering deals to other people which end up favouring them at the end of the day. Or the deal backfires. And Imu is the epitome of the Devil and what is Devil known to do? Offer a deal or bargain for their soul. While Garp didn't sell his soul, he did swallow his pride and continued working for the corrupt regime for the betterment of others. His title hold more meaning as he has saved numerous lives and gained numerous accolades albeit the GV is a sting to his legendary resume.
Which explains why we haven't heard about native hunting since they stopped (head canon for now) because if we do the math, the latest native hunting should be during pre ts.
Good soldier ✅
Good propaganda machine ✅
Good rep for the World Government ✅
This is a rough draft. I might work on it later... maybe. Thoughts?

[gusty basin]

likely
I really like the Imu (devil) offering deals
but i disagree cuz it doesn't align with my agenda

[last estuary]

Damn
👍

[drowsy gate]

Im still amazed no one has talked about this sword lol

Like who TF could have used this ? How tall was he ??? 😭

If someone this tall ever existed then we should definitely consider GodValey being cut in half

[raw scarab]

Its been talked about before. A little after this I was talking about how the God Valley was a tree, although not sure why it would be split into two.

[drowsy gate]

thats concerning, there is plenty of adam trees too not just one (a giant said it)

Shamrock keep saying the Elbaf warriors never cooperate, we can assume a giant tried to cut it for some good reason...

[raw scarab]

yes, drum island may have been trees. The drum mountains actually have bark that looks like cherry trees (I have a couple of cherry trees in my bark yard, and they have those horizontal lines.)

Ultimately, I think the trees significance, especially in the 1st/2nd world is somewhat told in both Yggdrasil and adam tree demonstrations on Elbaf.

in land of the gods, we have a gigantic horned being, taller than the tree itself, holding the sun, and ruling over the land. Although I believe this was demonstrating the red line 3,000 years ago.

[drowsy gate]

What if the break of the first world happened because of Yggdrasil falling ? and it was the central tree of earth ?

[raw scarab]

its def. possible. I do think the world was covered in darkness, and the trees provided ways around this. The adam and Sun tree Eve both potentially tall enough to reach the sun, as they surpass the white sea in height.

[drowsy gate]

Causing earthquake and giant mountains of lava, that later oxidized, causing the ''red line''

Cause thats a theory i had for a while, but im still missing something

[raw scarab]

yes, volcanic hot spots leveraged to create the red line (basically a chain of islands) I think is def. a possibility. When the mural says 'forest god tamed demons', may not be referring to devil fruits, but potentially the planting of giant trees across the grand line.

[drowsy gate]

What if Nika tried to protect Yggdrasil

There is a possibility the first world was FULL of huge trees everywhere, what if the first civilization was so huge that earth was just too small, so they lived in the whole universe lol, on other planets

Maybe thats crazy but when i see how big everything is, idk Oda is crazy man

• Yggdrasil is known to be a ''cosmic tree'' that ties the whole universe

[iron current]

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[broken seal]

Those are contour lines, it’s how elevation is depicted on topographical maps.

[drowsy gate]

thx i learned some lol

[pallid prism]

Guys im about to cook here

What if imu rather than killing rocks, since it has been shown that he is unable to kill rocks when he is there in the flesh and he is at GV through saturn, imu turns him into an infant. An infant who is picked up by the roger pirates alongside shanks. An infant who is cursed with a red nose as a reminder that he has been defeated by the world itself. An infant who would grow up to reclaim his place as king of the pirates. An infant… known as… Buggy D Clown

Not a joke theory btw my genuine belief and i truly think oda can and will

[steady prism]

Do you have any in-story evidence to corroborate it? Does Buggy ever show he knows more or is hiding something

[pallid prism]

Oda has had an obsession with buggy. How many other manga/anime keep around the first villain all the way through the series? Buggy is absolutely a bubbling bafoon that rocks is not however without knowing the full extent of imu’s power(this theory is completely upended anyways depending on what it is) perhaps rock’s mind was also set back causing him to lose all of his memories along with his physical body. Growing up with the roger pirates would most likely have shaped his mind far different than whatever his first upbringing may have looked like. He would be unaware of his heritage and raised by a crew with a captain who has shown to be of a similar mind to luffy. Roger unlike rocks is far more carefree in his take on piracy. Oda rights roger much more goofy without much seriousness similar to luffy and that kind of potential father figure would shape one far different. Its also been my belief for a while buggy will be the first to obtain the one piece regardless if this theory is true(no real basis beyond i think oda would do that just because funni though i think the op must be found by luffy as roger said he was too early) and this being true would further that belief.

The visual similarites are also simply far too great to ignore. Sure it may be nothing but buggy looks more like rocks than rocks own son does

[tidal garden]

What if the celestial dragons are being kept alive for sacrifice? Imu only cares about their goals, there's no need for celestial dragons. And the way they're kept in perfect conditions, being their suits and access to money, food, etc., it almost feels like they're guinea pigs to me. Also can explain why they're so ridiculously protected

[dusky acorn]

You may be on to something, but I believe this theory could do good with some more extrapolation. Sacrifice for Imu’s sake in what exactly? It has been 800+ years and Imu seemingly hasn’t made any known sacrifices yet? What’s the reason behind such a gargantuan delay?

[tidal garden]

As the final sacrifice for Imu's perfect world. I'm not that knowledgeable about OP so I can't really extrapolate much, but either way we wouldn't learn about that sacrifice until much later. Just struck me how cold and calculated Imu is that the Celestial Dragons need to serve a purpose. They're all so weak, I don't think they really helped Imu defeat Joyboy. They could have become weak over the generations but I'm not so sure considering how often narratives we're fed about history in OP tend to be complete lies

[tiny agate]

why does imu need a lot of inbred sacrifice

[tidal garden]

I was thinking part of it is the immorality of the Celestial Dragons. Them being so evil is what makes them valuable for the ritual, and their stupidity makes them easily controllable. Cutting out any Celestial Dragons that value humans becomes necessary. It's all too curated imo. I don't know what ritual Imu could be doing, what kind of sacrifice, but they just seem like pigs and sheep

[keen trellis]

They Will Never Meet Again Theory/Bloodline and Successors Theory

Davy Jones was once part of the Great Kingdom, where his family lived. Joy Boy also resided there, and the two were likely close—perhaps even sake brothers of sorts.
Davy was of mixed heritage, descended from humans who lived on Earth and those who came from the Moon. This unique lineage made him one of the so-called “People of the Half Moon,” known today as the D. clan. Joy Boy, however, may not have been a D himself, but rather a man who deeply honored the people who raised him—much like Shanks does in the present era.
Though Joy Boy and Davy often clashed like siblings, they shared a powerful bond. Together, they set out to sea to explore the world, visiting various kingdoms founded by the Moon and Half-Moon people, including Lily’s kingdom. Lily had been betrothed to a chosen king—Imu—but she rejected the union out of her love for adventure and the hope that Joy Boy inspired within her.
Imu’s rejection by Lily fueled his hatred toward Joy Boy. In his bitterness, he spread false propaganda, painting the Great Kingdom as a dangerous and oppressive empire that needed to be destroyed. This deception united twenty kingdoms against the Great Kingdom, leading to the catastrophic conflict known as the Void Century War.

The war created a deep rift between Joy Boy and Davy. Joy Boy sought peace and reconciliation with the Moon people, while Davy viewed this as betrayal. Determined to defend their homeland, Davy formed his own crew and created the Davy Back Fights—competitions designed to recruit the strongest warriors to challenge the alliance of the twenty kingdoms. Meanwhile, Joy Boy gathered allies from his travels, forming his own pirate crew.

During the war, Imu discovered that the Great Kingdom was the birthplace of the so-called “Dreamt Fruits.” Consumed by hatred, he wished for the most selfish and malevolent fruit imaginable—and that wish became reality. Davy tried to confront him, but after gaining this new power, Imu cast Davy into the depths of the ocean, condemning him and others with Devil Fruit powers to the same fate. This marked the first known instance of someone drowning due to a Devil Fruit’s curse.
In the end, Joy Boy and his comrades united to challenge Imu and his newfound abilities. Tragically, as history records, Joy Boy was ultimately defeated and killed.
The rest of Davy’s family was likely hidden away with Joy Boy’s help, which may explain why Rocks’ father wore a straw hat—perhaps in honor of Joy Boy himself. Centuries later, Rocks set out on his own quest for vengeance, seeking to avenge his fallen ancestor.
This entire legend parallels the story of Skypiea, particularly the tale of Noland and Kalgara. Noland foreshadows Joy Boy, while Kalgara foreshadows Davy. Though they held different beliefs, they shared a strong bond. Kalgara and his tribe disappeared—just like Davy’s family—and Noland was sentenced to death, much like Joy Boy, punished for a truth the world refused to believe. Noland and Kalgara never met again, mirroring the tragic separation of Joy Boy and Davy.
A similar dynamic may have existed between Roger and Rocks—perhaps once comrades whose diverging ideals led them down opposing paths. Wyper from Skypiea can be seen as a reflection of Rocks: a fierce warrior devoted to protecting his homeland. Enel, on the other hand, mirrors Imu—a false god wielding his own “ancient weapon,” Uranus, symbolized by his flying ship. Even Nami’s alliance with Enel can parallel Vivi’s connection to Imu.

The city of gold in Skypiea foreshadows the Great Kingdom, while the golden bell symbolizes the One Piece itself. When the One Piece is finally “rung,” the world will learn the truth and justice will be restored for Joy Boy and the Davy Clan.
The mural’s inscription—that “they will meet again”—can be interpreted in many ways. Symbolically, it could mean that the One Piece represents the eternal bond between Joy Boy and Davy—their friendship embodied in treasure. But it could also foreshadow a reunion through their successors: Luffy and Teach. Perhaps they will join forces to defeat Imu once and for all.
However, I believe that Teach, consumed by the trauma of his past, will be too far gone for redemption. He will embody the misunderstanding of the Will of D—misinterpreting the ideals his father and ancestor once stood for. In doing so, Teach will become the very thing they despised: a new Imu, wielding even greater power. This time, however, Luffy will not stand alone—he will have the entire world by his side to defeat the greatest evil of all.

The final topic I want to touch on is the matter of bloodlines and successors: Luffy, Shanks, Buggy, and Blackbeard. The fact that these four remain the major pirates vying for the One Piece feels far more deliberate than it first appears.
We already know that Luffy is the successor to Joy Boy, while Blackbeard descends from Davy. But where does that leave Shanks and Buggy? I believe they, too, are tied by bloodline and inheritance to Joy Boy and Davy.
Let’s start with Buggy. If he truly is the successor of Davy, the evidence is subtle—but intriguing. The most obvious connection is the striking resemblance between Rocks D. Xebec’s wanted poster and Buggy’s face. At first glance, this might seem coincidental, but consider the spirit of the Davy Back Fight itself: a lighthearted, unpredictable contest used to recruit new crew members. The concept perfectly aligns with Buggy’s personality—playful, comedic, and underestimated—suggesting that Davy himself may have shared similar traits.

Shanks, on the other hand, presents a much deeper mystery. The most compelling hint lies in the silhouette of Joy Boy, which closely resembles Shanks’ own outline. Another small but noteworthy detail is that we never see Shanks’ mother’s face. This could be inconsequential, yet her possible connection to those who lived among the Davy family raises questions. What if Joy Boy’s own relatives were hidden away in God Valley—red-haired descendants who carried his legacy in secret?
Such a lineage could explain why the Gorosei seem to harbor animosity toward Garling Figarland—perhaps for unknowingly fathering children with a descendant of Joy Boy. It’s possible that when Roger discovered the One Piece, he also learned the full history of Joy Boy—and this knowledge is what he later shared with Shanks. After all, Gaban once referred to Shanks as “the boy of destiny,” a title that likely carried more meaning than mere fondness from Roger.
Shanks understands his role in the grand story. He knew that someone from the next generation would inherit the Nika Fruit and continue Joy Boy’s will. He originally intended to pass the fruit to Ace—the child of Roger’s bloodline—but fate intervened. True to the message of the story, hope is not always passed through blood, but through spirit. And so, it was Luffy who ultimately inherited that will, becoming the one to carry Joy Boy’s dream into the new era.

@royal terrace am i cooking?

[drowsy gate]

I Don't see 20 kingdoms uniting just because one king went ''Hey, they are dangerous'' tbh, and what would be the relationship between Imu and Lily in the first place ?

And the whole ''they will never meet'' wouldn't make sense too since they literally met ?

Blackbeard looks already aware something higher than the elder exist and i don't think his whole plan is being friend with Luffy lol

[keen trellis]

“never meet again”*
also you’re misinterpreting the scenario, my essay already long as it is, but False propaganda doesn’t equate to Imu just being blatant about it, like just think about it, The Great Kingdom is a far advanced civilization than the rest, philosophizing that this one great kingdom can hold a serious threat to the rest of civilization and also this is 20 out of possibly thousands of countries that decided to go attack so i think that’s believable enough

[keen trellis]

and also this isn’t me stating Blackbeard isn’t aware, but i feel when it really comes to a certain point, Teach is gonna have to work with Luffy to defeat Imu. Do I think Blackbeard will backstab Luffy afterwards though? absolutely, that would be out of character otherwise

[drowsy gate]

The end of the harley text ''they will surely meet again'' can't just be Blackbeard working with Luffy then backstabing him..

[keen trellis]

That’s what makes Blackbeard the biggest threat of the series for me, he’s the wild card of this whole prophecy, he’s the unknown, rewriting the prophecy, makes the stakes higher than what we expected from the prophecy. Like I also said though it could also mean symbolically with the one piece activated, bringing forth possibly Joyboy and Davy’s brotherhood for the world to see just like the bell was for Noland and Kalgara.

I really do think for the second world at least the “they will never meet again” is referring to Joyboy and Davy. The First world were referring to Nika and whoever the Earth God was.

[royal terrace]

I dig this, especially the Skypea parallels

[tidal garden]

BB likely has records inherited from Xebeq. He's also seen Imu

[limber nova]

I think joyboy is needed to defeat imu because I think joyboy tied his haki with the nika fruit which can be the only effective weapon against imu

[steady prism]

!theories @nimble fox this channel’s for more than one-line comments. Please write a few more sentences outlining the evidence/reasoning you may have about Elbaf’s sword
@unkempt blaze not the place for one-line joke theories. Please use #manga for stuff like that

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[steady prism]

What do you mean tied his haki? Could you elaborate a bit more?

[lunar bramble]

Davy D Jones could be joyboy name and the name joyboy could be something similar to why some characters call luffy straw hat

[limber nova]

Do you remember when joyboy tied his haki to the robot on egghead. I think he did the same with the nika fruit

[steady prism]

It’s an interesting idea, I’ve always believed that the previous user of the Hobi Hobi df could have been the reason nobody remembers Joyboy’s real name, which is why his nickname continues through legends and whatnot.

But it seems like the Davey clan are just like the Monkey clan, Jaguar clan, Trafalgar clan, and even Nefertari clan. Why does Joyboy have to specifically be Davey Jones? Granted, it’s the first real originator name we’ve learned from the D clan. Is there anything else tying them together? Is a Davey Back Fight something Joyboy would have done in your eyes?

[candid drum]

Hypekage using my theory about Davy Jones heart!!!!
https://www.facebook.com/share/17ACxrFqsQ/

[last estuary]

Except he cannot lol the power only circulate once the user dies.

[light dawn]

I think you’re cooking. A more cohesive presentation of disparate ideas that I’ve been kicking around in my head.

Love the Skypiea comparisons as I believe that arc is way more important than most of us realize.

Great job, chef

[spark herald]

🩸 Theory: Bellmer is Shanks' mother
🕰️ 39 years ago — God Valley

Bellmer was a young Marine sergeant and Dragon's colleague.
During the tragedy of God Valley, she tries to save a red-haired woman with two babies (Shanks and Shamrock), but only manages to rescue the children.
Dragon helps her escape, and together they leave the Marines after witnessing the cruelty of the Tenryuubito.

⚓ The Escape

Wounded, Bellmer shaves her head and disguises herself to escape Garling Figarland.
She separates from Dragon—he takes Shamrock, and she protects Shanks, who is eventually found by Roger.

🌅 New Beginning

Believing Shanks dead, Bellmer hides in the East Blue and decides to raise Nami and Nojiko as her own daughters.
Her rolled-up sleeves and military discipline are vestiges of her past with Dragon.

🔥 Conclusion

Bellmer was a warrior who survived God Valley, Shanks's mother, and a woman who chose love over war.
Shanks carries her strength and heart—and Dragon knows it.

[rich quarry]

Bellmere’s age doesnt line up with this at all. She was 30 when she died and raised Nojiko and Nami for 9 years after she found them as babies (assuming they were 0). Meaning as Nami is 20 in the story now, Bellmere was 21 years old 20 years ago. The god valley incident happened 38 years ago meaning Bellmere would have been 3 years old when the incident happened.

[humble garnet]

Idk if someone has said this theory yet but I have a theory. Blackbeard's darkness fruit is not a logia but a zoan and it's mythical fruit Ocean God and Davy Jones and Xebec had them and their wills are in the fruit

[viscid needle]

Before thinking about deleting what i'm about to write, i wanna say that this is NOT a joke theory and it is something i'm actually proud of because it is the first time i was able to come up with something ALL BY MYSELF. I actually haven't seen anybody else mention this even once (even though realistically there probably was someone who theorized this, the point is I have personally never heard anyone). So now let's get to the theory: the One Piece is Imu's panties.

• With God Valley Oda has created this contrast between the event itself (a brutal genocide of slaves and the Davy clan) and the cause of the event (literally fighting over a woman ).
  This made me think: what if Oda is using this as foreshadowing for something greater, and by that i mean the Void Century. (i'll explain it better later).

• We know Oda likes to take inspiration from several cultures and although he mainly looks at mythologies I'm pretty sure he has also taken inspiration from literary works (but correct me if i'm wrong, i really only remember that a chapter in Skypiea was named "Divina Commedia").
  Where am I getting with this? So i'm italian, and there is this poem called "La secchia rapita" (the stolen bucket) in which Bologna and Modena have a war because one of them stole said bucket from the other. Tranport this concept into the One Piece world: Joyboy steals Imu's panties (cause of the event), likely as a joke, and Imu gets so mad she start a century long war to get revenge, in which the world gets destroyed (the event). (there could also be an explanation as to why Imu gets this angry, but that would tie-in to another theory so imma hold back on it).

But why do i think it is specifically the panties to have been stolen? Well for a few reasons:

1. I think the One Piece has to something funny, cuz why would Roger laugh.
   (Ok so i'm almost hitting the length limit so i'll write the second part in a bit😭 )

[viscid needle]

PART 2

2. We now know that Brook clearly has a way bigger role than we originally thought and it wouldn't be the first time Oda has used a character's gag to foreshadow who they are (Robin's dark humor coming from her lonely upbringing and her view of the world around her). And i know Brook asking to see someone's panties probably isn't that deep, but IF he was a Holy Knight (or part of the Alabasta Royal Guard but i don't wanna get into that💀 ) he could have met Imu (/Lily) and asked for her panties.

3. We saw that when DF users get close to Laugh Tale they get hit with a really strong fever. Why is that? I believe it is because the One Piece is an object in which is contained a very strong Haki (we know this is a thing already, Emeth).

4. This next point is kind of a joke, but what if the reason why we never get an Imu body reveals is because she just covers her whole body with a black cloak because she doesn't have any underwear in Pangea Castle and she would be ashamed to ask the Elders to get her some .

5. This is probably the craziest timing i have ever experienced, but i kid you not when i say that 3 DAYS after i came up with this i open Instagram and i see that the OFFICIAL Imu (and Elders) merch came out... and it is PANTIES. My jaw was actually on the floor when I talked to my bro in school about this.

6. Imu is keeping what is likely Joyboy's Straw Hat in that fridge thingy as some kind of revenge. "You stole that from me so i steal this from you" typa thing.

I'm currently re-reading the manga and i just got to Water 7. I remembered about how at the end of Enies Lobby Luffy steals Franky's panties but first, i don't remember it well enough, second i don't think that is foreshadowing anything.

That's my theory, i know there is barely any evidence, but i like thinking about funny theories and the fact that this one kinda makes sense made me very proud. It actually became my headcanon

[vital crane]

I was right 😎

[ornate mesa]

Any theories on how to actually hurt Imu?

[solemn sable]

Stupid theory No.3:
This flashback mini-arc is actually Garp telling Teach about Rocks' past.
Either that or it's Loki's headcanon :v

[wild vector]

It's looking more and more likely the reason moria was wanted dead was due to his devil fruits.

The latest chapter shows the clearest resemblance between Imus ability and morias shadow abilities.

Imus ability must have some kind of connection to the darkness of the underworld.

Shadows could have opposite philosophies but share similarities.

[lucid vale]

Many similarities between elbaph and thriller bark

[jagged pewter]

Given how Imu seems to have the ability to turn the Five Elders into mythical beasts similar to devil fruit abilities, all the while without actually feeding the elders with devil fruits, I would speculate that Imu shares the same power source as whatever made devil fruits come into the world in the first place (as in, whatever force that made people's dreams into devil fruits)

And given how devil fruit users are weak to the ocean (because it angers nature or whatever), maybe Imu's weakness is also the ocean? Maybe Imu wants to stay on top of the world in case the flood happens again.

Imu's enemy being the literal sea itself also fits well with the whole thing where Imu's name flipped backwards is Umi, the japanese word for "sea"

And the sea in one piece has connotations for freedom, which also contrasts with Imu's absolute authority over the world

Also I don't know if this ties into all that but it's also a cool detail that Roger said to Rayleigh "let's turn the world upside down" and how Imu is referred to as "the world" in the latest chapters.

You could argue that the world has already been flipped upside down where demons a.k.a imu and the five elders rule the world from above and not below, as Sabo said something about there being hell on the top of the world. (Imu's domi reversi move could be a metaphor for how they turned the world upside down)

The will passed down from Joyboy to Roger and then Luffy could be to flip the upside-down world once again, Imu --> Umi, authority --> freedom.

[ornate mesa]

!cook

[ocean bay]

Back when the Five Elders' abilities were introduced, it seemed like they might have their own kind of demonic power rather than just being Awakened Mythical Zoan fruit users. However, since we saw that God's Knights also possess both Abyss and untangeability, and Gunko also doesn't age, just like the Five Elders, despite not having any demonic beast transformations, I'm leaning towards the Five Elders simply being Mythical Zoan fruit users

[wild vector]

I don't think so.

The darkness he's using has too many similarities to morias shadow abilities.

Morias shadow is immune to damage.

Once Imu undid something on Saturn, all his age and possibly damage accumulated at once and he died.

It's possible what Imu is doing is reversing their body into the world of darkness(ie where shadows exist and or hell).

this could explain why dorrys hand is floating despite having been cut off before he was reversed.

It's his shadow. And since the arm went down, he can still control its shadow despite not being connected.

[unkempt blaze]

y’all need to give up on moria

[ocean bay]

I would say that Imu might be actually using the Kage Kage no Mi itself, possibly awakened, by being a zombie created by its own power, thus, Imu is technically dead and the fruit returned into circulation despite Imu retaining their powers.

There might a parallel to Vegapunk's death possibly returning the Nomi Nomi no Mi to circulation, while Punk Records is still in operation.

But the latter is not confirmed, and it would contradict Imu being a recipient of Ope Ope no Mi's eternal youth surgery.

[fresh isle]

In my opinion Imu has a real body and a real face, 10 minutes ago i was thinking that Imu has not a silhouette, but he's a shadow or some obscure substance, but now, reading again the chapter I think he got a real body, and we still can't see him because Oda will reveal him in the future. Why? Simply because he got a crown, and if he's a "shadow-like" body, the crown shouldn't be there, I don't think how the crown is also a shadow. It means it's a real crown + a real body.

[feral mantle]

guys, i am gussing what happened next for garp to keep working for navy and stuff is imu probably will win and hold dragon or someone hostage (may be even holding the world hostage in some ways) and forced garp to decide his action next in the future, may be similar to Oden situation, may be they kind of also discover one piece might be the only way to defeat imu and that's why roger went after that afterwards, but others probably think it's impossible to beat imu so they kinda gave up and went their own ways....
and because garp was forced to obey because of dragon, dragon realized a child is their parent's weakness so he didn't want to have luffy by his side and let anyone know luffy is his son so he won't hold hostage by imu just like garp...

imu's form and stuff actually reminded me of the last for kanjiro took / draw, that fire monster thing, may be it's something similar so can't kill it physically, may be some kind of underworld creature / demon king so they can access those demonic powers, brook's underworld stuff probably foreshadowed that here and there...

[ocean bay]

But the latest chapter implies that Imu's body is a wavy, almost liquid substance, rather than the usual human physique. It's almost like a stream of black goo flowing out of Saturn's body.

I find it hard to imagine what structure should be drawn into that variable shape.

[fresh isle]

no guys, last chapters is Imu possessing others body, it's not his real body

[ocean bay]

Yes, but the shape goes continuosly from wavy substance to the same shape as Imu's body in Mary Geoise (which I assume is Imu's real body).

[fresh isle]

i can't post pictures, but look chapter 906, he has hands, he walks, he keep objects in his hands, he opens door.

[ocean bay]

Of course, that might be just the process of Imu materializing in the beginning, but it looks to me that it is that way even when Rocks cuts it up. Imu can arbitrarily create limbs out of his body

[fresh isle]

and what about the crown? if he's a shadow, the crown is a shadow crown or a real crown? I can't believe it's a shadow crown, i'm pretty sure it's a real crown, and i can't imagine a real crown on a shadow substance thing

[ocean bay]

Looking at all available depictions of Imu, I have to agree that it seems like he has a tangible body of a defined shape. In all non-combat scenes, the shape is the same, and doesn't seem to be fluid, it's only in combat, so it makes sense to attribute that to Imu's transformation (like we see in Imu's battle against Sabo)

[wild vector]

The farest guess at this point is a mythical Zoan of whoever controls hell/the underworld(aka where brook returned from).

[wild vector]

People have been pretending moria isn't relevant since before the time skip.

Moria for grand fleet. Prove me wrong.

[slow torrent]

Hold up this might be a cook holy smokes Just saw someone bring up a theory saying domi reversi only works against you in your homeland, which is why it worked on Rocks and the Giants, also why Imu hates pirates and freedom. Also I’m confident now that Joyboy and his allies where the ones who sunk the lands in the void century to prevent Imu from using Domi reversi all the time paving the way for there will to be passed down

[wild vector]

If it's his shadow, then it would include his crown since he's wearing it.

When moria shines a light on Luffy we get shown the shadow of his exhale. So it's not so far fetched.

[feral mantle]

that's a pretty good limit to put on that ability.... interesting

[slow torrent]

Exactly that’s why vegapunk said he doesn’t know who was wrong or right based on what he read, also like think about it Joyboy and allies had access to the ancient weapons so it makes sense, I think oda wants to misdirect us in thinking it’s the world government that sunk everything and raised the sea level but what if it was Joyboy? He made it harder for the wg to move across the world and also countering imus ability a bit

My brain is running wild man I love oda so much

[ocean bay]

That would explain why Imu didn't use Domi Reversi on Rocks when Rocks invaded the Flower Chamber, and also why Imu was pleased with finding the Davy clan: Imu used them to lure Rocks to God Valley.

I also believe that Imu took advantage of Saint Saturn also being there. Because Chapter 1150 implies that the name of the technique to turn someone into a demon is Aa Kuwaaru, not Domi Reversi, and requires submerging into an Abyss. The only way Domi Reversi could turn Rocks instantly into a demon is if he already was between two demons.

[feral mantle]

yeh Oda definitely will make some good reasons for why imu and wg doing what they doing, it's not gonna be that black and white, it probably will be a battle of ideologies, order vs chaos / freedom, should we allow certain evil / sacrafice to exist for the sake of order , "peace" & stable, or risks everything for freedom? how do we have a balance? ( solution after beating the wg and creating a new gov lead by good kings or democracy ) etc....

[slow torrent]

Holy shit we cooking rn 🤯 Oda we figured you out buddy

[ocean bay]

In chapter 1150, Broggy is turned first with Aa Kuwaru. During that, Imu/Gunko is to his left (when looking at Broggy from the front). Later, Dorry is shown as being to Broggy's right, so he is between Imu/Gunko and Broggy. In the next panel, Broggy attacks Dorry, Dorry being again to his right, and in the very next panel, Dorry is turned as well.

In chapter 1163, Rocks is at first standing below Saturn and Imu. But just before Imu does Domi Reversi on him, Imu lifts him into the air, positioning him between himself and Saturn.

[slow torrent]

That makes so much sense bro I think you got it ngl

[ocean bay]

Also: the only other time Aa Kuwaaru/Domi Reversi was likely used was on Harald, also in his homeland. How the perpetrator got there is quite clear: Harald himself invited them there. Imu tried to use Harald to kill off Loki, but Loki did something (maybe with his Devil Fruit, or Haki) to kill Harald, despite the immortality of the demons.

[ocean bay]

Well, the first paragraph doesn't quite align up 😅 I showed that Broggy was between Dorry and Gunko, not Dorry between Broggy and Gunko (which would be needed for Dorry to be between them)

[raw scarab]

Just to note, based on GV so far, it appears becoming a demon doesnt make you immortal. Rocks was able to kill his family while they were in demon form. It gives you apparently a power boost, but does not grant full regeneration from what we have seen.

[ocean bay]

In chapter 1150, Imu explains there that Aa Kuwaaru makes you immortal. I believe Imu sent Rocks to kill Eris and Teach, not his parents, who were already turned.

[raw scarab]

invincible or immortal? As we see in one piece, there are different tiers and abilities associated with this. Imu notes that the giants lifespan is drained for this ability, so I am curious what are the limitations.

[ocean bay]

The main limitation is I guess that you cannot turn back without dying. The lifespan thing might be also why it is so effective on the giants, who have longer lifespans, so it gives them a bigger buff.

I'd have to look up the words used in the original

What is also unclear is the relationship between Aa Kuwaaru/Domi Reversi demons, which seem to have a demonic appearance and hunger for power, and other characters being granted immortality or invincibility by Imu. For example, Saturn died after his immortality was taken away, but he did not have any characteristics of the Aa Kuwaaru demons.

But I think those are just different kinds of demonic contracts and no explanation will be provided

[mighty falcon]

Boys I have spoilers zoro is getting shusui back. Gecko Moria gonna hand deliver it

[tidal garden]

Why would Imu want to raise the water levels if that's the case? Seems counterproductive

[fading sapphire]

I'm wondering now, after the God Valley incident, Garp realizes Mu cannot be defeated, so he forms SWORD to fight back and now that puts aokiji in the crew of rocks son... surely...

[mighty falcon]

Doubt

I did realize something odd, you know how boa said that if she dies the next user can’t undo it? Well we really only have seen Shadows with Imu.. there may be a lot more to Moria then we think.

I think Moria is literally going to hand deliver shusui to Zoro. Either him or Perona

[tidal garden]

If so why call Aokiji a failed student? To trick the viewers? Garp's also a knucklehead, not much of a mastermind.

I agree though, SWORD was created by Garp either after seeing Imu, or seeing atrocities committed by the WG. Garp knows they're powerless, so he created SWORD as a shadow organization for individuals with good hearts. I don't think Imu knows about SWORD.

[fading sapphire]

Ya the former may be a stretch tbh remembering aokiji vs Garp. I suppose it could be a full commit part of the plan but I'm not convinced. I wonder if aokiji knows any of blackbeards history and lineage.
Agree with the second part. SWORD seems like a natural result of learning of the evil behind the world government as a way to combat that or at least retain some control over your manpower.

[dreamy lotus]

I really like the theory that Imu Domi Reversied Zunesha and that’s how he “betrayed Joy Boy”

Like that totally looks like imu on a giant elephant

[late yoke]

The second half of this theory is goated af (not my theory so im posting ss)

[gilded basin]

Anyone notice how Mu said It's you Davy Jones. Maybe there's a way for the Davy clan to imprint their spirit or soul into their offspring or something. And just like how Davy Jones was inside Davy D Xebec, Xebec might be inside Davy D Teach.

[olive dragon]

Theory/Question regarding the 'immortality' of the holy knights and elders.
They regenerate from anything, seemingly. Unless thats prevented with haki.
Does this apply all the time, or only when they are summoned away from MG..? I think the latter.

I think theres some device or DF user that allows them to project an avatar of themselves where they need to go. And thats why they dont seem bothered at all by injuries.. 🤔

[shadow ether]

Do we think Davy clan is a clan the same way the monkey is a clan

Or the same way lunarians are a clan

[upper holly]

So if that theory it’s real, it confirms that teach could have 3 fruits? (Davy jones, xebec and him)

[gilded basin]

I also have a gut feeling (I hope I'm wrong, cus Xebec is him) that since this is basically Loki's POV, Rocks is being glazed as a saviour of sorts. The reality could be a bit different, otherwise how could Blackbeard who is supposed to carry the will of Xebec and the son of this legendary guy be a backstabber.

[hallow bear]

https://www.instagram.com/p/DQFyMOkDjL9/?igsh=bng3a3V6dGJxcTJy

dylanosaurarts

What do you Think?

#onepiece #onepiecemanga #rocksdxebec #davyjones #imu #onepiecefan #luffy #joyboy #pirateking #strawhatpirates #strawhats

Likes

19529

Instagram

[hallow bear]

I think its more like how emmet thought luffy was joy boy but this time xebec knew his look alike of ye olden days

[limber nova]

So apparently there’s a theory going around that dragon has the rain god fruit

[slow torrent]

Maybe Storm Storm Fruit is my theory cause that makes him a end game character all forms of haki with the storm storm fruit=OP hence why oda was saving him for the end of the story

[hallow bear]

To be fair this chapter has kinda left doubt on his fruit coming from God valley, unless he picked up a fruit that dropped thanks to john

[uncut delta]

I think that its gonna be a great long flashback of Davy Jones 800 years ago in the void century making it to Laugh Tale. Cause i think davy jones is joyboy and him being the first pirate and all i think it makes sense for him to be the most stereotypical looking pirate, especially since his names davy jones

[pliant wind]

guys i think dragon gets his devil fruit at the end of god valley

[hasty meadow]

Oda is clearly showing us how Xebec is Domi Reversed and how the gang will need to handle him, so when the manga returns back to Elbaf maybe Gaban will already know what to do and will tell the others.

[ocean bay]

I think I know why the Sun God Nika doesn't seem to have sun-related powers. According to the text of Harley, "the (forbidden) sun" (太陽):

• was touched by mankind in the first world
• spread the fires of war, and then was killed in the second world
• returns and brings a new morning in the third world
  This doesn't seem to be referring to the actual sun, but rather to the original source of energy that powered Emet and the Ancient Weapons. Nika had a similar power, so he was titled by the people according to it (the title appears in quotes, unlike all the other gods), not the sun in the sky.

[hasty meadow]

Also Luffy being the Sun God is a clear reference to Wukong( who is the sun god in chinese mythology) and he's a monkey.

[ocean bay]

Is Sun Wukong really the sun god? I thought he was a Monkey God

The original Nika might have not had any powers at all, that might have been only a legend that got turned into a Devil Fruit

[hasty meadow]

My bad, you're right about that, but it's still to me sounds like a possible reference.

[last estuary]

Oda was clearly referencing Hanuman for gear 5 or Nika. He even had a note.

Wukong, on the other hand, is not your traditional Chinese God. He was a stone monkey who eventually became the monkey king. He has 6 different types of immortality and had a place in the celestial court, but it was given as a mockery and to keep him in check. Reached Buddhahood after completing the journey thus his newer title being "victorious fighting Buddha."

[hasty meadow]

Gear 6 confirmed?

[last estuary]

There is no gear 6.
And also, many people think Kong likely ate the wukong fruit, given the name and the existence of the Buddha fruit (Sengoku)

[hasty meadow]

I mean ODA doesn't need evrything to match, so he can get inspiration from something. He's proven that countless times with every character design. What I'm trying to say is that there is this Monkey God inspiration in Luffy's design, either from one point of reference or more, like you did an example with Hanuman.

[last estuary]

It could be, yeah.

[limber epoch]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/s/7rcEMppgwG

[misty rain]

Imu is getting exorcised from Gunko by the power of song.

[vague flare]

it’s probably gonna end up being revealed as a Will of D. thing similar to how Imu recognizes Luffy as Joy Boy (whose real name likely bears D. since I’m assuming Joy Boy is an epithet like Straw Hat) Luffy and Rocks could both be either literal reincarnations or spiritual successors to Joy Boy and Davy Jones respectively.

[remote silo]

He eats the sun or moon tho iirc, which is why I’m convinced luffy will eat the “sun” (mother flame) before the end

[vague flare]

I’m pretty sure all of it is just part of Imu’s DF. he was able to revoke Saturn’s immortality which instantly aged him God knows how many decades/centuries. so it’s probably a passive ability that Imu can grant to anyone he wants. and the only effective counter is some type of ACoC that the characters present at God Valley haven’t discovered yet. Gaban’s knowledge of the countermeasure probably came from the GV incident.

[broken seal]

Bet on it. Hanuman eats the Sun also. And we have that explicit Luffy connection from bajrang gun

[last estuary]

Hanuman doesn't eat the sun, and neither does Wukong who was inspired by him. Hanuman does try to eat the Sun, mistaking it for a ripe fruit, but was smited by Indra hence how he got his name, "Broken jaw" or something like that 👍

[limber nova]

So luffy will get an offer to become imu’s pet?

[last estuary]

[runic vault]

theres no way luffy is gonna accomplish being stronger than all these monsters in their prime to fight imu.

[wild vector]

I don't think Emet is powered by anything. It doesn't make sense given what we have seen.

Nika will be fire+hito hito no mi

[light dawn]

He’s the protagonist of the story and presumably the chosen one, why wouldn’t he?

[ocean bay]

Vegapunk claims that Emet runs on "Ancient Energy" (古代のエネルギー) that he himself has not been able to replicate, even though as we see, Mother Flame is being used as its substiture to run Pluton, it is apparently not sufficient to power Emet. Emet only activates once Luffy's awakened powers are used near him.

[real tangle]

So end game is gonna be power of suppression ( domi reversi) vs power of freedom ( gear 5). Clearly one world order vs free world theme

[little juniper]

I mean he’s defiantly going to get stronger and able to stay In gear 5 longer, but besides df mastery I don’t see him getting anymore powerups. He’ll probably end up relying on other factors like ancient weapons and possible counters to imus regeneration.

[wild vector]

That doesn't mean he's correct.

We already saw Emet "run out of power" then get back up when he heard about joyboy.

If you are trying to imply Luffys powers literally power him then I disagree again.

[light dawn]

I think it would match the story well because Luffy is where he’s at today due to his team/friends/allied. Relying on them as another “power up” is a nice foil to Imu because super oppressive one person

[little juniper]

Exactly

[torn plover]

Emet was running out of power when Luffy stopped G5. Once he turned back on G5 Emet started living again

[hot heart]

i got a theory that Blackbeard was so desperate to obtain the dark dark fruit, because it counters Imu regen to a certain extent. Clearly Gorosei/God Knights powers are associated with devil magic type stuff, such as those demonic summoning/portals. Blackbeard knew if he wanted his revenge, he needs this DF to have a chance. It was likely also Davy Jones DF, since Davy Jones Locker is meant to be at the bottom of the ocean where it's dark and light can't reach, and the Davy clan have passed information down about it. Imu might be able to resist it since Imu is the big bad, but the GK and others probably cannot so when Blackbeard shows up his ability to deal lasting damage to them is going to be made out to be a big deal.

[pure raven]

Luffy has one more form to unlock, that is his original form as the gorosei states something like we mustn’t let luffy go back to his original form while he was in gear 5

[night crag]

Imu looks like a demon of pure Haki who is existing in a different dimension (Vegapunk hinted at Devil Fruit user existing in a separate Dimension). Domi Reversi could be seen as a Kings Haki ability which we see Imu stabbing Rocks but not harming his body but attacking his Soul directly. Kings Haki abilities are very unique and are different per person (Rayleigh explained this), and Imu's ability are about dominating and controlling Souls. On the other side Joyboy could have had a similar Kings Haki ability but instead of dominating Souls he Liberated the Souls directly, what that exactly means we don't know but the thought is interresting. What if Joyboy had the unique ability to Liberate Souls of people during the Void Century so If they were about to die their souls separated from their bodies and survived.

[trail urchin]

Imu can't use domi reversi on devil fruit eaters. Could also explain why imu could easily use it on rocks but not sabo in Marie jois AND why Blackbeard is so fixated on getting all his crew members dfs.

[last estuary]

Not bad

There's also the recurring theme where characters have stated, devils reside within fruits.
Basically, a devil cannot influence another devil therefore just like you said, domi reversi would not work on a fruit user.

[scenic ingot]

I always had a theory that maybe conq haki could be stored in objects (well it can, with Joyboy's rope being the key evidence), and perhaps the strawhat itself has some conq haki stored in it that they don't know how to unlock now. Maybe they'll unleash it as a fatal blow to Imu in the end, idk. But anyway, perhaps being around this haki itself allows you to slowly unlock conq haki, which would explain why Shanks, Luffy, Zoro, seemingly Sanji and Ben Beckman, and people around the hat in general seem to be "natural" conquerors. Maybe it's not something you're born with like we've been led to believe. Not much evidence to support the theory besides ppl around the hat have conq and correlation doesn't equal causation, but it would be interesting.

[limber nova]

Could chopper create rumble balls that’ll fix luffy’s stamina problem?

[scenic ingot]

what if Imu doesn't necessarily want to destroy the world, but wants to rid it of all human life instead? I've always thought the celestial dragons were basically just there to be sacrifices in the end of Imu's plan

[languid sentinel]

Imu want to kill of the d caln

Now for the celestial dragons they can be a part of imu

[wild vector]

No he wasn't. If the fruit hasn't been awakened in centuries than ther a no way that someone in g5 at that time.

[languid sentinel]

Agree no could awakened it because the world government been looking for 800 years it make no sense it would mean that some else beside joy boy eat the fruit

[granite surge]

Iirc emeth activated from the drums of liberation. And he activated randomly 200 years ago at the reverie…could it have been a failed awakening back then?

[turbid trail]

The One Piece is the Mother Flame.

The person who has the last poneglyph? The man marked by flames.

What do you find at the one piece? The history of the world, the void century, information about the ancient weapons, and a real, tangible prize according to oda.

Gear 5s main drawback right now is how much energy it consumes. Its powers are virtually unlimited, but capped by luffys inability to maintain the form.

Luffy loves eating. It’s his favorite thing. The mother flame? An infinite energy source. Perhaps the motherflame refers to a piece of the sun… the one piece?

And luffy, the sun god nika… hes gonna eat the sun. Like hanuman did (gomu gomu no bajrang gun). Hanuman is depicted as a divine monkey, who is also famous for eating the sun. The mother flame is gonna be dinner for that kid.

And he will have unlimited energy for gear 5. How the final conflict unfolds after that? Do not know one bit.

[deep kestrel]

No its not, The Mother Flame isnt funny.

[deep kestrel]

This is still unbelievably overpowered, and uncounterable for most of the Strawhats

[deep kestrel]

Maybe this is the case, but then youd be wondering why Imu didnt take the fruit the past 800 years beforehand…

[wild vector]

The idea that Luffy will eat the mother flame is so poorly thought out. It's basically "that's cool, let's head cannon it"

[wild vector]

This is already likely proven false. It's a safe conclusion that anyone with the psuedo immortality of the gods Knights has been reversed.

Gunko and Saturn disprove the idea.

[pure raven]

I feel like imu has more of a grudge or revenge or like something happened between her and the d bloodline that’s why she hates them so much

I do think there will be a backstory to what happened between imu and whoever, and that’ll show how the one piece and pirates all started but i THINK that a good theory to say is that the d clan are sworn enemies of the celestial dragons including imu and they might’ve tried to kill the celestial dragons and end there Hierarchy multiple times but failed each time (joyboy also failed) and that’s were luffy comes in and he ends it all or maybe he teams with them who knows so many unanswered questions

[pure raven]

Isn’t Blackbeards fruit a similar one to luffy so that means it also has a will?

Wait what if oda dies before the one piece finishes and it’ll become the world greatest tragedy that one piece never finished????? And it’ll go down in history for the best anime series of all time

[split glacier]

Yami and Gomu look the same too. It's very likely they're opposite fruits, there's no other 2 fruits that look similar to each other

[gritty kite]

Luffys a zoan. BB hasn’t been revealed to be one, it’s not supposed to have a will.

[solid jasper]

The budda is leagues stronger than wukong tho, does it make sense for sengoku to be that much stronger than kong? But we'll maybe sengoku is just a budda, not the budda.

[last estuary]

Ok so? It is merely just an speculation and it doesn't need to be 1:1 in accuracy lol

[solid jasper]

just offering insights 🤷‍♂️
not everything is a debate

[last estuary]

[last estuary]

It is not my idea to begin with. I was offering an insight to what I think made sense. We will see soon enough

[trail urchin]

Well id assume there are more conditions to it but atleast that could be one of them

[ocean bay]

The original power source is not the Mother Flame, that is the name of Vegapunk's imitation that was apparently not able to power Emet.

[hasty meadow]

I'm pretty convinced that Imu might be the devil himself, creator of the devil fruits. That would explain how easy he can give and take abilities.

[mighty falcon]

Disagree

I’m 99.9% sure luffys fruit is who created a lot of the fruit powers. Maybe there are two forces that can create them? I’m pretty sure luffys fruit works like a genie. He uses genie physics.

Literally probably 1:1 with a genie. He can grant 3 “wishes” that become fruit powers and then dies

[hasty meadow]

yeah, but Imu's and god knights design so far is connected to devilish and demonic themes. Not a coincidence for me.

[mighty falcon]

Devil fruits aren’t necessarily powers of the devil. The government lied about luffys fruit name.

[mighty falcon]

Also the government is lying about laws fruit name and shusui’s grade as well as other fruits too probably.

[raw laurel]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/s/qM80jvhnHL

I wrote a theory.

I think nami is a cd child and the daughter of sommers or someone else who is a Shepard

[turbid trail]

Youre right, but the story they find there that gives them the information about the void century, the history of D. and the ancient kingdom might be.

Its called laftel, or laughtale. Funny story. Edit: probably a poneglyph (or series of them) detailing the adventures of whoever left the one piece where it is. Which i think will be pirates who came from space, potentially the sun.

Roger saying they got there too early could be in reference to vegapunk not completing his research into how to use the mother flame, or not having a way to move the mother flame, some prophecy involving poseidon and luffy, etc

[turbid trail]

It makes complete sense, given that Monkey D. luffy is the sun god, a parallel to hanaman, depicted as a divine monkey, who is a symbol for loyalty and freedom, who uses his power selflessly, and ends up eating the sun.

Edit: who is also granted invulnerability to indras lightning (which could be enels thunder, imus domi reversi, or BBs yami yami no mi powers. Take your pick.)

[mighty falcon]

Luffy is an idiot

[deep kestrel]

The story compliments the treasure that joy boy left behind. Roger is not just calling the story hilarious, hes calling the treasure hilarious

Also can we talk about how incredibly lame your theory is. Like alright, lets imagine the One Piece is just an infinite power source that we heard of 300 chapters before. Thats just disappointing man

[mighty falcon]

The one piece is the man Roger was waiting for

[deep kestrel]

I guess Roger already saw him then, guess he didnt have to wait, and I guess he didnt leave any treasure behind

[mighty falcon]

He saw him in story. The treasure Roger left behind is the story and how it helped shape the world

[deep kestrel]

So Roger and his whole crew decided to laugh until they cried at the end of a book

[cosmic fern]

Oda said it's gonna be something physical not that lame

[mighty falcon]

A person is something physical.

[deep kestrel]

You just said it was a person IN the story. , therefore its not actually a physical person

[cosmic fern]

yea sure a story is for sure something physical you're right

[deep kestrel]

Man you guys really gotta step up your game, I bet you saw this in a dream once and immediately decided it was your headcanon even though it doesnt make any sense

[mighty falcon]

Reread chapters Monster-chapter 5

[mighty falcon]

If a story is about a specific person, the MC it is physical

[cosmic fern]

its not

[mighty falcon]

Chapter 5 title is what?

[wild vector]

That doesn't mean that oda is going to go that route.

[cosmic fern]

The pirate king and the great swordsman, your point is?

[mighty falcon]

If you have to ask you should probably reread monsters- chapter 5

[cosmic fern]

tell me what your point is

[thick orbit]

guys I wanna talk about a certain theory

we all know that blackbeard is xebec's son right? and we all know that whitebeard and xebec have been together in the same crew. so the theory xebec is in blackbeard's body wouldn't make sense, since blackbeard killed whitebeard

[turbid trail]

Yeah eating the sun sounds like a bad idea to most people

[mighty falcon]

Reread from monsters - chapter 5 and you’ll get the point.

There will never be a more peak section of one piece than Monsters-chapter 5

From Monsters to Chapter 5 is peak 10/10 fiction. It literally doesn’t get any better writing wise.

Monsters-Chapter 5 is better than the ENTIRE ODYSSEY.

If you can’t figure out why, you haven’t even read the story. Which is why One Piece is the best written work of all time.

Because here we are all these years later and I’m still the only guy who knows what the one piece is other than Oda.

Y’all sleeping

The most peak moment in the odyssey was when Odysseus told the cyclops “I am nobody” and proceeded to ruin the cyclops entire life.

Monsters-chapter 5 makes the most peak moment in the odyssey look bland. Goes from a 10/10 to a 6.5/10

[steady prism]

Stop pontificating here. If you want to discuss something in good faith, please explain why

[mighty falcon]

Title of chapter 5 is The Pirate King And The Great Swordsman

What is required to be the pirate king?

What is required to obtain the title of The Pirate King

Whoever finds the one piece first is the pirate king.

Nobody said the person who finds it first need be aware they found it at all.

[mighty falcon]

So again I will tell you and @cosmic fern to reread from monsters to the end of chapter 5

If you can’t see it then you weren’t meant to.

🥱🥱🥱

Don’t believe me ask Oda yourself

If you have yet to understand, whatever the one piece is, it’s in chapter 5

[steady prism]

You can suggest that the One Piece is a story of the “chosen person”’s journey to finding the One Piece. Feels like including Monsters is very unneeded when you have ch967. Whether that story is in a Poneglyph of some sort or not, I don’t know.

[mighty falcon]

Monsters can’t be unneeded. Ryuma was the god of the blade as Nika was the god of the sun.

Ryuma was built as a Buddha parallel.

[cosmic fern]

so you think the one piece is a story?

[steady prism]

Given their reactions it could very well be. I’m not saying it can’t include treasure/gold/etc, but part of the One Piece has to be some sort of story or record of the true history.

[mighty falcon]

Sorry for asking you to read 6 chapters to get context for what I’m saying. That’s too bold of me. So I’ll just say it so your tiny brain can grasp it.

The reason the title of chapter 5 is the pirate king and the great swordsman is because Luffy becomes The Pirate King in chapter 5. Zoro is the one piece and the man Roger was waiting for. Zoro is the next god of the blade.

This a theory forum, where evidence doesn’t exist because theories are conjecture based on interpretation. If you can’t see my interpretation with the plethora of facts I laid out that you deleted, that’s a you problem.

Nice mod abuse though, impressive.

[steady prism]

This channel is for long-form theories about a central point with evidence and reasoning, the channel description states that clearly. Your deleted comments were streams of one-line ideas that you didn’t stop posting after I asked you.

Other channels are better suited for what you were trying to discuss. My DMs are open if you have any more questions/comments/grievances about this. But lets move on

[mighty falcon]

Sure bro let me ask you a question though, why does it bother you that Kuina died giving Zoro immortality surgery? The timeline fits for law to get the fruit. Same as Gaimon = Arashi. Just wondering

[mighty falcon]

Do you disagree that Ryuma was created as a Buddha parallel? Genuinely just trying to understand

[cosmic fern]

Well for SURE a part of it is a story there's no denying that is that what he was arguing about?

[swift cosmos]

Okay fellas, I got a prediction. The reason why Blackbeard attacked the revolutionaries on Baltigo is because Dragon took out the Domni Reversied Rocks on God Valley

[fast goblet]

I don’t think Dragon was nearly strong enough to do that

[swift cosmos]

Since Blackbeard was young at the time or heard through the grapevine (most likely through whitebeard) as to what happened to his dad on God Valley, he may have misconstrued on what happened there.

[swift cosmos]

Assuming he gets his devil fruit there and it's a weather logia, it would be as simple as dropping a bolt of lightning on the transformed rocks

[cosmic fern]

Mate Chapter 5 is literally called ‘The Pirate King and the Great Swordsman’ because Luffy says that he’ll become Pirate King and he frees Zoro not because he is Pirate King. The title just mirrors their dreams, not the outcome. Oda confirmed since Chapter 1 that the story’s about the journey to become Pirate King, not that he already is. besides oda wouldn't make it something this lame
Zoro being the One Piece makes zero sense, Roger literally saw Laugh Tale with his whole crew, and they laughed at a treasure left by Joy Boy. Zoro wasn’t even alive
Yes zoro will be the next god of the blade and become the greatest swordsman just not the one piece that makes 0 sense

[fast goblet]

Why would that kill Rocks though? I’d assume he could survive just standard lightning attacks

[swift cosmos]

Not sure but this is something I'm fairly sure about

[swift cosmos]

Remember what Dragon said "A parent's biggest weakness is their child" What would be the chance of him developing that idea after what happened with Rocks and Blackbeard

[languid sentinel]

It have to be that is the only way that rocks could be kill

[swift cosmos]

Right now on r/onepiecespoilers, people think I'm crazy

[serene swift]

The one piece is a UFO, I am literally about to put money down on it if it's such a thing on Kashi (LMAO). Look at this outline when rodger looks at One Piece and tell me that isn't a UFO https://imgur.com/a/ouvLIHr

[steady prism]

!theories @warped jacinth @pure raven this channel’s for serious theories. Please use #manga for “what if” ideas like that

@serene swift the manga never showed any silhouette, so that’s an anime-only thing. Given the channel’s rules, do you have any other pieces of evidence/reasoning for the One Piece to be a UFO?

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[lean shadow]

I think we are completely forgetting about usopp and how usopp was the one character that really wanted to go to elbaf,the one character that was really interested in elbaf warriors and the one character whose dream was to be brave warrior of the sea.
The only time usopp does anything crazy is when other straw hats are either down or fighting someone else but generally think of usopp vs perona.

I think all the straw hats are either gonna be down or more likely turned into demons except usopp and usopp will have to be brave warriror of the sea and save them.
Not sure if luffy gets affected,but I could see it maybe he fights in gear 5 and detransforms and gets reversed.
So I can see usopp fighting like crazy a desperate fight and right when he is basically out luffy walks and gives him a hand to stand up and then luffy expands his df power reach onto other straw hats that are liberated from the demonic form.

I can imagine usopp using lokis hammer,I just dont know how he will do it.
MAYBE the big owl changes the size or usopp or the hammer.

[oblique isle]

Because he may have been told by Garp about them hunting for Rogers child and how dangerous it would be for him to stay close to Luffy tbh and he's Dragon and Garp do talk. Dragon told Garp he ran into him at lougue town

[mighty falcon]

Here’s a real brain buster, can Momo give orders to Zunesha because Zunesha got Domi Reversaled itself and that’s why it lacks free will? If so does this mean Momo is imu’s ultimate weakness? Because luffy couldn’t command Zunesha but Momo could?

Did vegapunk somehow make a hybrid of abilities into the dragon fruit itself?

Imu has been shown wanting to protect non human life. Protecting the island of rare animals with domi reversal elephant seems good

[pure raven]

I think why luffys fruit is so powerful and wanted is that because he can change his surroundings into rubber, not only that but he can literally make whatever he imagines or desires like in the recent episode where he made a baseball bat out of a tree, so could maybe be used as a Power which could prevent from the world cleansing from happening hence why imu hates it so much

[mighty falcon]

Luffys fruit power actually has nothing to do with rubber. It gives things the properties of rubber.

The universe itself that we live in is properties of rubber. Oda is a genius.

Omg. Hes not getting proprties of rubber. Hes getting properties of the universe.

If Imu is the world. Luffy is the universe.

Bro Oda is the goat.

[pure raven]

The universe itself is rubber properties??

[mighty falcon]

Space and (time) (which is distance traveled through space) is a fabric akin to rubber the universe itself is a rubber band essentially. Right now it’s being expanded one way, outwardly.

This is why they fear the Nika fruit. He represents the whole universe

[pure raven]

Yeah I understand if this theory comes true then holy fuh, omg the one piece ending finna be so lit but ITS SO FAR AWAY, like it’s literally gonna be years before it ends and I can’t wait

[mighty falcon]

Brother you got no idea how much I know about one piece and I’m still learning something new everyday.

Like I just realized that myself.

[pure raven]

Yeah man that’s why I love one piece there’s no ending and so many goddam questions and stuff to discover which makes it so interesting, definitely best anime ever

[ocean bay]

Momonosuke's ability to command Zunesha quite closely resembles Poseidon's ability to command Sea Kings. Both are passed down in a lineage, both come with Voice of All Things, and in both cases, other VoaT users (including Oden) can hear the animal, but not command it.

It is clearly established in chapter 821 that the lack of free will is due to an order issued to Zunesha, which must have been by the previous holder of that power, during the Void Century; nothing to do with Imu.

If the order was a Domi Reversi order by Imu, it would make little sense for it to be reversible by Momonosuke (unless Imu was a Kozuki or Amatsuki clan member, and Momonosuke is their descendant I guess 😄 )

[ocean bay]

In fact, the correspondence (between Momonosuke and Poseidon) seems strong enough to me to make me believe that the "two sovereigns" that will meet in the Third World are, in fact, Momonosuke (controlling Naitamie-Norida elephants) and Shirahoshi (controlling Sea Kings). That could also imply that the abilities are passed down all the way from the First World.

The problem with that is, if the Sea Kings were talking about the other sovereign in future time when they were heard by Oden and Roger, the timeline doesn't add up, because Momonosuke had been already born at that point

Yeah the other sovereign has to be Luffy

[mighty falcon]

Chapter 5

[steady prism]

!theories @tribal wyvern @scenic thicket this channel is for longer theories, not links or one-line "what ifs". Please provide some in-story evidence/reasoning when sharing things here. Otherwise, please use other channels like #manga or #manga-serious

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[cosmic torrent]

I've been wondering if Imu really is a just a shadow blob like the inner shadow or darkness of the world since he calls it "his world" and that Domi Reversi is a technique that specifically brings out the inner darkness of a person and is visualized as a demonic version of yourself

[tribal wyvern]

Bruh

[cosmic torrent]

My theory in fact is that Imu is not just any shadow but the shadow of Nika brought to life, he is essentially the reverse (Domi Reversi) of Nika: While Nika is the warrior of liberation the Sun God of Freedom, Imu is the darkness that wants the world under control. I wonder if JoyBoy as the previous user of the Gomu Gomu no mi maybe used it to give life to his shadow but instead what happen is that he brought to life a shadow of Nika a reversed version of the Sun God.

[livid cairn]

i have a theory, what if shanks allies with the straw hats because its said that his haki is as strong as the previous joy boy, and the previous joy boy managed to hurt imu with his haki. so shanks and luffy would have a chance against imu if they ever fought

[fresh isle]

i have a SMAAAAAAAALL theory, don't know if "theory" is the right word, maybe is more something like a prediction. If really time flows differently on Elbaf, we could see a lot of time has passed in real world. I want to connect this with mugywara fleet incident back in chapter 790ish. If for example on elbaf passed 1 day, but on real world is 1 month, what would it be the reaction on luffy's friend/fleet? The world will be surprised when they discover there are no news on mugiwara after egghead, his fleet could maybe try to search for him? What if they was looking for luffy and they all attacked maryjoa for finding their captain? And that's why marijoa is under attack, no blackbeard, no dragon, luffy's fleet.

pretty shit prediction, but it would be funny ahahah. I dont' think it will ever happen, also because they have luffy vivre card, and they should go to Elbaf at this point, not marijoa, buuuuuuut, it would be funny

[fresh isle]

btw, for every people who think that Mihawk is rayleigh son... Mihawk is 43 years old...

[mighty falcon]

This xebec guy got a hard on for pissing me off is all don’t worry about it. It’s only a theory if the mighty overlords approve of it

[iron current]

yes and Rayleigh is 76 whats your point

[fresh isle]

god valley is 38years ago lol, mihawk was born 5 years before god valley, at that time mihawk and shakky barely meet each other

[fringe hemlock]

says who

[fresh isle]

so rayleigh and shakky had a son 5 years before god valley?

[fringe hemlock]

maybe. i have a theory that she also had a kid by Rocks 46 years ago and i remember ppl’s objections being “but Shakky is in love with Rayleigh and Rocks fell in love with someone else” but like, there’s such a thing as a fling yk

[fresh isle]

ah ok, i understand...

[brisk jay]

My "theory" that connects Imu, Ancient Kingdom and Lodestar. its more a thread of insights than theory tho.ty
https://x.com/ScarrletEl/status/1982512872388432056

activate the translation, please. dont worry my language is very close to English in this aspect

[fringe hemlock]

I think that Rocks and Eris’s story is (partially) based on the relationship of Jason and Medea from Greek Mythology, which in turn could tip us off to the twists that are coming.

Jason is most notably the hero of the Argonautica, where he lead the Argonauts (named after their ship, the Argo) on a seemingly impossible search for the golden fleece. The fleece was owned and eventually relinquished by King Aeetes of Colchis. The Gods made Medea, his daughter, fall for Jason to help him pass several trials to get said fleece. When their plots were discovered, the couple eloped, and when they were chased by Medea’s brother, they killed him. They also had two sons.

On the island they moved to, Jason abandoned Medea for this nations princess. Medea was exiled by the king, after which she killed her own sons and Jason’s new wife. Medea was also the granddaughter of the sun god Helios.

Rocks, like Jason, lead a group of sailors to steal from kings. He also, like Jason, is remembered tragically. Rocks, like Jason, moved his wife and son to an island to hide them from the blowback of his robbery and murder of royalty. Rocks’s wife, Eris, prided herself on her ability to help Rocks and fend for herself instead of needing saving from Rocks, much like Medea’s dynamic with Jason. Eris also talked about being welcomed despite her crimes, like Medea. Also like Medea, Eris threatened to end her son’s life. Interestingly, if we had to pick anyone as the princess of God Valley, it would probably be Shanks’s mom, who is revered by the people and is the one Garling, who wanted to create diplomatic ties with God Valley, got pregnant. Rocks’s recent comment on promises and his history of breaking promises to the world government make promises a recurring concept in his story, much like in Jason’s.

Fun fact: Rocks’s first name, Xebec, is probably a partial reference to Sobek, an Egyptian god of crocodiles and impregnation, especially of other mens’ wives.
1/6

[fringe hemlock]

Now for the more out there shit: This is all to say that if Rocks cheated with Shanks’s mom after bringing Eris to God Valley, it would be part of a consistent reference to Jason and Medea AND to Sobek simultaneously, ESPECIALLY if Rocks got her pregnant with Buggy.

Buggy’s character also includes an allusion to Egyptian mythology, with his story of eating a dismemberment fruit because of his “brother” Shanks evoking the story of Osiris being dismembered by his brother. His blue hair is likened to that of Vivi and Gunko, one of whom is the Queen of Alabasta (based on Egypt, the villain was Crocodile, the current Buggy “ally” and leader of BaROCK Works whose epithet was Sabaku No Ō, a Sobek pun) and the other of whom is a mummy (like from Egypt).

If Shanks’s mom has a clown nose, it would explain why her face is hidden, tie to her colorful hair as a red clown feature, and most of all explain why neither Rocks nor Garling would want other ppl to know about her. It would also mean that Rocks messed with Garling’s woman, making their beef more personal and further motivating him attacking her.
Edit: Rocks having an affair that results in a clown son would also be ironic in the same way that Medea ending Jason’s legacy with a poisoned crown and cape was meant to be.
2/6

[wild vector]

All of these panels are depicting the same thing. Unintentional use of conquerors haki.

After we get back from the flashback, we will need more of the crew proficient in conquerors to fight the elders.

Zoro Sanji and Luffy are obvious, with 2 of the 3 being confirmed.

However I believe the seeds for usopp having it have been long since planted.

The other members who I believe will become proficient in different branches of conquerors use are Nami, vivi, and Franky.

I think Franky is also very subtly hinted. His refilling of cola and the super strong hammer that followed was shown to literally summon lightning clouds. The panels after the weather becomes clear again.

If conquerors has some sort of weather manipulation branch then nami, Vivi, and Franky would be pretty well suited for that.

[fringe hemlock]

I’ve also considered the possibility of Eris being Nico Olvia. While most people stopped making this comparison after her closeup, Eris’s first and last appearances bear a resemblance to Olvia that I refuse to ignore, especially because of her overt parallel to Dragon, who looks different at God Valley from his older appearance The main differences between Dragon then and now are that he has longer hair, a more prominent nose, and harder eyes, all of which apply to the differences between Eris and Olvia. The main similarities between Olvia and Eris are their distinct wavy bangs, the pronounced/straight appearance of Olvia’s nose and Eris’s from some angles, and the ringed eyes in said appearances. The main difference that made me believe they were different characters was the fact that when Olvia and Robin’s eyes arent ringed, they have a large black pupil. However, Eris wouldn’t be the first time we’ve seen a character who gets the temporary double ringed eyes when stressed but has normal, Eris style pupils most of the time. We’ve seen that on characters like Big Mom, Pudding, Stussy, Cavendish, and most interestingly, Yamato, whose mostly white hair is the most comparable to Olvia’s. Yamato also just happened to end his cover story on the same chapter that we got the closeup of Eris.

Dragon and Olvia are the same age, meaning that she would be 15 at the time of Blackbeard’s birth, meaning for this to be true, she can’t be Teech’s mom. However, much like in the case of Ripley, Colon and Scopper, every mention of this family has been about Rocks being Eris’s husband and the father of Teech, leaving the younger “parent’s” involvement to inference. Personally, I’ve been thinking that Teech could also be the son of Shanks’s mom, with her abandoning him for his resemblance to Rocks, in a parallel between BB and Loki. This is mainly because if Eris is BBs mom, her being Olvia means Rocks impregnated a 15 year old, which I do NOT anticipate 😭.
3/6

[fringe hemlock]

The point of this possibility is that it could make God Valley a reference to several stories, including the “Clashing Rocks” part of the Argonautica. In this story, there were huge rocky cliffs so close that they would sometimes come together. The crew was advised to let a dove fly between the rocks and only attempt to pass through them if the dove made it. In this analogy, the mountain of God Valley is the clashing rocks and Eris, if she’s Olvia and has white hair, would be the dove. The point of this would be that since we know she would kill Teech if they were caught, and we know he survived, Rocks’s survival is also implied. If the dove made it through, Jason could too.

The point of a much younger woman falling for Rocks and him having an attraction to her that he’s hesitant to acknowledge would be to reference Porco Rosso, as well as the story of Daedalus (BEAR WITH ME).
4/6

[fringe hemlock]

To summarize Porco Rosso briefly enough to avoid this being smacked for spoilers, || its about a former fighter pilot who became a pig-man after regretting his work for Italy’s fascist military. In this movie he’s forced to recruit his long time mechanic’s 17 year old granddaughter, Fio, as his sidekick mechanic. She develops a crush on him and spends the movie trying to prove her equality to him as a young woman. Throughout the movie you get the impression that while Porco is flattered by Fio and finds her cute, his true love is another woman his age, Madame Gina.

Madam Gina being loved by her community and sought after by Porco’s foreign rival would parallel Shanks’s mom being loved by her community and having been with Garling, Rocks’s foreign rival.

Eris, being our Fio here, would be like an apprentice to Rocks. Her eagerness to prove herself to Rocks, met by Rocks’s tsundere attitude, matches Porco and Fio’s dynamic. || Eris/Olvia would essentially be his apprentice, which would make sense since Rocks seems to have more forbidden knowledge than most in his era, and was active in the same sea as Ohara.

In the story of Daedalus and Icarus, Daedalus was a master architect and inventor. He had an apprentice (his nephew) before Icarus who he pushed to his death out of jealousy. That apprentice came back to life as a bird, and went on to inspire the wax wings that caused Daedalus’s next apprentice to fall to his death. Its a karmic punishment where the betrayed person’s replacement ends up dying, like in the story of Jason and Medea.

Blackbeard’s Icarus inspiration feels set in stone at this point, with the character Ikaros Much swearing vengeance for his fellow squid friend Daedalus in a way reminiscent of Blackbeard with Rocks’s legacy.

This is to say that if Eris is Rocks’s apprentice and also represents a bird, Rocks being ordered to kill her by Imu could be his Daedalus vs apprentice moment.
5/6

[fringe hemlock]

Rocks being inspired by Porco Rosso could lead to interesting shit like his mysterious pre-pirate past being as a soldier for some evil group. This would also explain his recurring “THEY JUST WANNA USE YOU AS A WEAPON” thing. The pig aspect could tie to Rocks’s striped spiky hair, which reminds me of the way Oda has depicted wild boars before. The point of the pig motif would be twofold: 1. the pig is last in the Chinese Zodiac race and the Rat is first, making stuff like Rocks referring to Imu as the “Rat King” and Harald siding with the WG over the “loser” Rocks references to the zodiac story. 2. Oda also makes a lot of references to Journey To The West, and one of the characters in it was Pigsy, a former demon soldier whose original name, Zhu Baije, reminds me of the Z/J and B in Zebec/Jibekku (alt spellings of Xebec). His main flaws include lusting after beautiful women (like Sobek or Xebec or Jason) and being ugly (like Xebec). Pigsy was also specifically a marshall, which could tie to the possible former soldier aspect of Rocks as well as Blackbeard’s “Marshall” last name. The story of Pigsy seeing the moon goddess and flirting with her could tie to the multiple “goddesses” I think Rocks is involved with, especially Imu, who seems like a direct reference to the moon Princess Kaguya. Rocks’s rivalry with Roger and mutual respect for Rocks could be references to Pigsy’s respectful rivalry with Sun Wu Kong.
6/6

before yall flood in to humble me i just wanna clearly labke this all as well informed spit-balling. is what im propising farfetched? yea. does Oda regularly smash together references to mythology and Japanese media based on minor parallels? also yea. i somehow wrote all that without needing to mention that Rocks being influenced by a god to kill his wife and child is an overt reference to Hercules. im basically just posting this to record a prediction of a twist publicly, explain why it would be happening, and open it to scrutiny. k thanks 4 reading :p

[solid jasper]

🤣 🤣 🤣 it's so entertaining reading how u linked rocks with zhubakai

[fringe hemlock]

as soon as i find the panel of the boar that looked like this it will make sense 😭

[solid jasper]

This guy???

[fringe hemlock]

no i mean a drawing Oda did of a lil striped boar

just remembered the Mountain God in Wano, who came and wrought havoc after its son was kidnapped. got split in half like God Valley but survived by being sown back together. following the Rocks = Pigsy analogy, could be a hint abt Rocks’s survival

[brittle beacon]

I wanna share a crackpot theory about Davy D Jones

[pale drift]

Just a quick one to get out of the way since it has been in my mind for months but I believe that dealing with the immortality of the Holy Knights and others ultimately have to do with damaging their abyss mark.

It’s common in a bunch of series for people with regeneration/high defense to have a specific weak point that is vulnerable to attack (Achilles’ heel), so it’s usually not a matter of endurance but pinpointing where to attack.

If Shanks’ arm did had the abyss mark here, then the Sea King eating it would’ve removed his link and thus revoking his immorality, leading him being vulnerable hence his scars. Likewise, Sommer’s debut in the arc showed him having a mark, which Gaban didn’t actually cut from their encounter.

In terms of Conqeuror’s Haki, it is still effective in helping against immortality, but it’s not foolproof. From what is shown so far, the main advantage it has is slowing down regeneration, but it doesn’t leave permanent injuries. This makes it moreso that using conqueror related attacks gives you a timer to temporarily disable regeneration so that you can see where the abyss mark is to properly damage those that are marked. This is where Gaban stating to be mindful of using it comes from since you don’t want to waste your stamina on attacks they’ll eventually recover from.

I believe that this will get revealed through Gaban telling Chopper since it is being set up as Chopper being the one to get the information out of Gaban to deal against the HKs (hence Chopper chasing him and being the one with him rn). That way, non conqueror users can also be capable of dealing with abyss mark people, but without said advantage.

TL;DR: The Abyss Mark is the Achilles Heel for the 5 Elders/HK so fighting against them comes from finding where their mark is located at and then damaging them from there.

[brittle beacon]

mega crackpot theory:
I believe Davy D Jones (gonna call him Davy for short) was the first devil fruit user, or had direct influence on the weakness of whoever has a devil fruit power (losing their strength because of the sea).

In SBS volume 38, we know that Oda took direct inspiration from the irl Davy myth, as he said;
"there was a lying, no-good pirate named Davy Jones, a greedy deck chief who was famous for putting all the crew's valuables in his own locker. He was so wicked, even for a pirate, that one day the Devil himself cursed Davy to live at the bottom of the sea forever, swabbing the deck of a sunken ship and placing all the sunken treasure into his locker, where it would never be seen again."

Plus, back in Baratie arc, when Don Krieg was explaining devil fruit powers, he said (I am paraphrasing here) "The power users are hated by the sea". This was not the only time someone used the phrase "hated by the sea" when referring to DF users.

We also know that everything in one piece has a will, thus the "voice of all things" exists, so we know it's not far-fetched for the sea to literally hate someone.

This all leads be to believe that either;
A) Davy did something so horrible/vile/unspeakable after gaining a devil fruit power that the sea cursed him and any who eat a devil fruit.

B) Davy is just the first devil fruit eater.
The side effect isn't caused by him (it was already there when he ate it), but he was the first one to eat one, then eventually died due to drowning.

C) Davy is the first person to discover how to gain more than 1 devil fruit's power, which caused him to hoard a bunch of them. This fits well with the irl myth where Davy Jones stole all of his crew's valuables for his own, and was very greedy.

Extra crack;
He might've also created the red line, he possessed the Gura Gura no mi (WB's fruit), and literally nuked the world. The aftermath of that was the creation of the red line, and the statement "The power to destroy the world".

[ivory urchin]

What if Rocks doesn’t actually die at God Valley?

We know the “Domi Reverse” ability (if real) could be a soul-manipulation or possession technique — something ancient and dangerous, tied to forgotten Void Century knowledge. What if Rocks, being the monstrous visionary he was, used it at the brink of death to reverse-anchor his consciousness inside another host or vessel?

That would make sense of his statement about “returning to the Room of Flowers one day.” Maybe the Room of Flowers isn’t just a place — it’s a metaphor for his rebirth point, a zone of latent power connected to whatever ancient civilization he studied.

Now fast-forward to the present: the mysterious death of King Harold. What if that wasn’t just a political assassination… but the moment Rocks broke free from his dormant state? Killing Harold could have been the trigger — the final sacrifice or act required to tear himself out of the Domi Reverse and return in full form.

It would explain why so many major powers suddenly seem nervous — as if an unseen hand just re-entered the game.

If this is true, then in the Final War, we might see the GOAT himself — Rocks D. Xebec — walking among the living again, a remnant of the old era crashing into the new.

[muted valley]

Considering how the whole flashback has transpired. It is implied that Shakky x Rayleigh wasnt a thing at all until after God Valley. Just that they knew of each other.

5 years prior is alot of time. Sure is plausible to happen but it isnt implied they had any solid relationship with time together until after God Valley.

[deep kestrel]

I will say for this entire thread, in my opinion is very wacky theory that has like a 0% chance of happening. But quite a lovely read, clear you put a lot of thought into this and I appreciate that a lot. People shouldn’t be scared to throw stuff out there as long as they can ensure a good consistency beforehand

[split glacier]

Regarding WB and Roger's health issues, I think the cost of repelling Imu or whatever happened that got them away ended up in the losing life force somehow. WB less so as it seems he went to fight Garling and got wounded(?) even tho the Prime WB and Roger flashback didn't have the scar. Maybe the Haki bloom Roger had/repelling Imu led to a shortening of his life similarly to how it's constantly mentioned how certain power ups of Luffy is resulting in excess strain on his heart/life. Not too sure on Garp as it seems like a Domi Rocks vs Roger, Garp and WB is about to happen with it just ending up as Roger and Garp fighting him at the end. It would be weird for Imu to reverse Rocks then just go back home and hope it works so unless she goes I don't know why Garp wasn't also "cursed" like Roger was with health issues. I think Rocks will have a moment where he resist/reverses the effect of Domi only for second to then have Roger and Garp beat him.

[slim hedge]

Florian Triangle is Imu's homeland/ maybe laughtale itslef. to get to laughtale through florian triangle, maybe we need the road poneglyphs to navigate. Just a theory

I think Imu's face reveal will happen within few episodes. I dont think mu is just an abyss. they have a real body

I think if we combine many villians in onepiece, we get imu.
Like parrallel
Enel (powers, sypeiea hints, vearth, shandians, imu's statue, 4 gods), Gecko Moria ( Even 'Kozuki', Oars, Shadow powers, Florian Triangle, Thriller bark itself which is god valley, ), Doflamingo ( powers, manipulation, ), Many things are actually direct connected to mu.
Like Imu is the upscale of these villians combined
Wano has smtg to do with joyboy and imu directly
And the florian triangle theory just explains the three navy buildings around and the imu's giant figure appeared after thriller bark and the ENIES LOBBY,

[reef notch]

The closer we get to the end, the more obvious it becomes that Skypeia arc is like a metaphor arc for the entire story

• Only arc where they were hunting for treasure
• Fight god
• Luffy's fruit is counter to Enel's fruit (I believe Luffy can counter Imu too with his fruit after latest chapter where Imu tanked all those attacks)
• Threw big party at the end of Skypeia, with the best theory for Luffy's real dream being to throw the biggest party ever, it fits well
• Fulfilling an ages long promise (Kalgara's promise to ring the bell for Noland vs Joyboy's promise to Poseidon)
• Noland's backstory and execution being kinda similar to Rogers or maybe Joyboy's, where he talks about a treasure which many people don't believe is real
• The fact that Oda's initial plans for One Piece were for it to be a short 5 year manga, and Skypeia arc was in the running 5 years after One Piece started, makes it feel like a trial run for the ending
• Luffy freed the people from oppression, a theme that is very present in the entire story of One Piece
• After Skypeia, the story also started fresh, introduction of the World Government, Yonkou, Revolutionairies, expanding on Void Century in Robin's backstory

[last estuary]

The Origin of the Half Moon People

Around 1,100 years ago, the Shandians, together with the Birkans and Skypieans, left the moon and traveled to Earth. While the Birkans and Skypieans remained in the sky, the Shandians settled on Jaya in the Blue Sea. When the World Government invaded, only a few survived. Those who remained dedicated their lives to protecting the Poneglyphs and preserving their history.

It wouldn't be surprising if the D clan originated from the Shandians. The term “People of the Half Moon” is quite fitting, as they could have been the offspring of Shandians and humans. This union suggests that the current bearers of the initial “D” may have Shandian ancestry.

The D bearers share certain resemblances with the Shandians, particularly Dragon, whose tattoo bears a striking similarity to theirs. That is likely not a coincidence. Gaban once mentioned that many mixed-blood races existed, which may have referred to them. The “D” name could have begun with these people, carrying a special meaning that faded over time as their descendants were persecuted and unable to pass down their legacy, much like how Oden could not pass his knowledge to Momonosuke and Hiyori.

Over generations, their descendants gradually lost their distinct physical traits, retaining only the name as a way of preserving their heritage. Its original meaning faded with the passage of time.

This could explain why, in his youth, Dragon wore an armband marked with a tattoo resembling that of the Shandians. Later in life, he moved the symbol to his leg and eventually to his face, honoring his origins and keeping the memory of his lineage alive.

Shanks may also embody this deeper connection. His fate is closely intertwined with the mysterious "D" lineage, much like Gol D. Roger, who served as a surrogate father figure to him.

Both Teach and Shanks are often portrayed as two sides of the same coin. Their shared background, the scar that Blackbeard gave Shanks, and their long-standing rivalry highlight a clash of opposing ideals. Each recognizes that a future confrontation between them is inevitable. The clock is ticking, and the race for the One Piece nears its end.

Shanks also holds a special place in Luffy’s story. Luffy deeply respects him, seeing him as both a mentor and the spark that ignited his dream to become a pirate. Shanks played a pivotal role in guiding the “chosen” Devil Fruit to its destined wielder and entrusted Luffy with his iconic straw hat, a symbol that became central to Luffy’s very identity. In many ways, Shanks is as much of a honorable "D" member as Sabo is "Sa D. Bo."

It is also said that Shanks once returned to the Holy Land but chose to live among ordinary people instead, staying true to his roots. This decision mirrors the Shandians’ descent from the moon to make the blue planet their home, a powerful reflection of Shanks’s humility and connection to the world below.

The Connection Between Lunarians and Shandians

The fact that Roger revealed the meaning of "D" to Whitebeard, and that Whitebeard in turn shared knowledge of the Lunarians with Marco, highlights this connection between these two. Lunarians' very name suggests a connection to the moon. They bear notable similarities to the moon people particularly the Shandians: dark skin, wings, and distinctive facial markings. There’s also an intriguing parallel between the serpent imagery associated with both, such as Kashigami, who was once worshiped by the Shandians as a God, and the Lunarians lived atop the Red Line, which Giants describe as a "blood-soaked serpent."

Additionally, the Lunarians’ ability to survive in any natural environment mirrors the adaptability of the Shandians, who were once inhabitants of the moon before descending to the Blue Sea. After being launched into the White-White Sea by the Knock Up Stream, they again adapted to their new environment, a resilience that further connects these two ancient people.

The Nika connection is interpreted differently by various groups. While Alber (King) believed Joyboy to be a figure of immense strength capable of reshaping the world. This pragmatic, power-centric view led him to identify Kaido as the modern day Joyboy. This is in contrast to the Skyfolks, who appear to maintain a more traditional reverence for the Sun God alongside other deities.

The Shandians present another unique perspective. They were not focused on the past but on their duty to the future: protecting the Poneglyphs. Facing overwhelming hardship, the God(s) they once revered eventually became objects of fear, resorting to blood sacrifices to appease the Gods they believed could resolve their suffering. This mindset persisted until Noland’s arrival on Jaya i.e. tree fever.

The mural from Enel’s moon cover story offers a fascinating counterpoint. I believe the Shandians were sacrificing each other to the Sun God due to a misinterpretation. An ancient mural from the moon, their place of origin, depicts them arriving on Earth in a kind of ship and creating the automata on a raised platform. Above the platform is a symbol resembling the sun, which is the energy source Vegapunk was trying to replicate. The Shandians probably assumed their ancestors were performing a sacrifice to the Sun.

This reinforces the idea that the understanding of Nika and the Sun God changes is not static. Instead, it is a tradition that is constantly being reinterpreted and inherited by descendants, much like the differing perspectives on Nika held by the Giants.

Meanwhile, Alber believed Kaido to be the legendary Joyboy. He desired nothing from his savior except to continue to remain the strongest. Alber intended to make Kaido king so he could shape a new world. This mirrors the Emeth segment, as both parties ultimately failed in their ambitions, a failure tied to the legacy of the Void Century.

Vegapunk’s broadcast carries deep significance, as it highlights how the world’s fragmentation has hindered cultural exchange. In the past, when people lived on connected landmasses, sharing culture and traditions was much easier. Now, with islands separated by vast seas, such exchanges are far more difficult. Travel requires ships, and most people either lack the means or the navigational skill to undertake such journeys.

Big Mom’s dream of a world where all races coexist peacefully without boundaries had, in some ways, already been realized in the distant past. This era of unity naturally led to interbreeding, giving rise to the first mixed races, such as the Buccaneers, Dosundadas, and Wotans, among others.

Shandora eventually fell and crumbled into ruins. Once celebrated as the prosperous “City of Gold,” it became isolated and forgotten by the rest of the world. Over time, its people descended into barbarism, turning to savage rituals and blood sacrifices whenever misfortune struck. They grew deeply distrustful of outsiders, driving away or attempting to drive away anyone who dared to set foot on their land. Yet there was a reason behind their actions: they were determined to protect the Poneglyph, as it was their scared duty. This also suggests that the union between Shandians and humans likely occurred before the Void Century.

The Existence of Hybrid Races

Gaban’s remarks about hybrid races reveal a complexity similar to that of the Ds. These groups have struggled to survive due to persecution, with only those who managed to adapt still existing today. Those who could not, such as Law's unnamed parents, Lamy, or Clover’s unnamed brother, perished.

Examples like Kuma and Hajrudin shed light on this genetic diversity. Buccaneers are said to be hybrids of giants and humans. I personally think genes dominance plays a significant role on this. For instance, Colon was born from both races but is a normal Giant. While, in Kuma’s case, blood acted as the genetic marker, with a blood test required to confirm his lineage and verify that he was not merely a large human, despite being born to a Buccaneer father and a human mother. Meanwhile, Hajrudin did not inherit any trace of the Ancient Giants’ blood.

Saul exemplifies this as he is the only known Giant to carry the “D” name so far. What if Saul or his ancestors were similar to Colon; a union between one of the first bearers of the “D” and a Giant? In that case, the Giant genes may have remained dominant through generations, making the Jaguar family a lineage of Giants who inherited the “D.”

The Shandians, on the other hand, are still a humanoid race and are fundamentally no different from humans, apart from the distinctive wings on their backs. As such, their union with humans would not produce an entirely new race.

According to Saturn, the Buccaneers were one of the races that committed a grave sin against the World, and Kuma is the only known survivor of this now-extinct people. This echoes the World Government's failure to extinguish the flames of the “D” bearers.

Each of these races possesses a unique form of power, reserved for themselves alone. What sets the “D” apart, however, is their ability to inherit the will of their predecessors, such as Rocks and the “Promise,” with Luffy carrying both Ace’s and Roger’s will while also bearing centuries of history on his shoulders.

Hands of liberation

According to Robin, dynasties existed long before the Nefertari family, tracing back to what she described as the “age of heaven.” While this may have been a ruse to mislead Crocodile, it remains a credible theory, especially considering that the Alubarna castle was said to have been built 4,000 years ago, according to one of the guards.

It is said that Lily never returned to Arabasta after refusing to join the World Government and that she was solely responsible for the distribution of the Poneglyphs across the world. Queen Lily is believed to be the first ruler of the Nefertari line, with her brother succeeding her afterward. King Cobra, notably, was the twelfth monarch of the Arabasta Kingdom.

We have seen Jinbe present a Poneglyph to Big Mom as a parting gift. Considering the sheer number of Poneglyphs scattered across the globe, it seems implausible that Lily could have transported all of them on her own, especially under Imu’s watchful eye. Given that she reportedly never returned to Arabasta, where one Poneglyph has been guarded for generations, it is intriguing to speculate that she may have been the previous user of the Paw-Paw Fruit. Such an ability would have allowed her to scatter the Poneglyphs worldwide with ease.

It is plausible that Lily entrusted the most important stones, especially the historical Poneglyphs revealing the locations of the three Ancient Weapons, to trusted allies. The exact location of the Poneglyph pointing to Uranus remains unknown, but the fact that two of the three known sites are Arabasta and Shandora suggests a mysterious and deeply intertwined history between the two civilizations, especially Lily whom shares the moniker "D."

Inheriting the “D” appears to be a matter of lineage, passed down through family rather than something that can be freely bestowed, as some believe to be the case with figures like Lily. If it were that simple, both Cobra and Vivi bear the “D,” even though they descend from Lily’s younger brother instead of Lily herself. If Lily had borne a child, that child would have succeeded her rather than her brother, just as in the present day, Vivi is poised to inherit the throne following Cobra’s death.

What are the odds that Arabasta has places called the Sandora River and the Sandora desert.

Jaya is also the fifth island the Straw Hats visit in the Grand Line after Arabasta.

In one panel, the half moon suspiciously resembles the letter “D,” appearing as the characters discuss returning Shandia to the state it was in 400 years ago.

The many similarities between Enel and Imu

I won't go into every detail here, but list the most obvious ones include:

• God complex, as both are self-proclaimed deities
• High elevation or positions above others
• Immense destructive power
• A desire to rule the World
• Ark maxim and the supposed ancient weapon, Uranus
• Enel and the Shandians paralleling Imu and the D clan
• The concept of Fairy Vearth
• Their roles as oppressors, among other traits

Enel was not satisfied with merely controlling the Upper Yard. He longed for more, seeking Fairy Vearth. Similarly, Imu seems unsatisfied despite ruling the world, claiming that their world remains incomplete.

However, what intrigued me was this phrase, "God's natural enemy."

Throughout history, bearers of the “D” have opposed Imu’s government in one way or another, whether by waging open war or by researching the forbidden truths of the Void Century. For example, Clover expresses his anguish over witnessing his brother’s death before his eyes simply because of his name, and his guilt for denying their bond, calling him only a friend in a desperate attempt to save his own life. This is what compelled Clover to seek the truth behind it.

At the center of this struggle stands Luffy. It can hardly be a coincidence that Luffy’s rubber body naturally counters Enel’s lightning, or that the Sun God Nika embodies ideals fundamentally opposed to Imu’s. These parallels are too deliberate to ignore, serving a powerful narrative purpose that ties the two “gods” together through opposition.

The Shandians’ centuries-long war with the Skypieans for control of the Upper Yard gains new significance in Luffy’s victory over Enel, accomplished by ringing the golden bell that had remained silent for 400 years. Luffy, also embodying the legacy of the Sun God, ultimately ends up saving his people. This act not only honored Noland’s legacy but also symbolically reclaimed the Shandians’ homeland. See chapter 298-299.

Meanwhile, the Celestial Dragons continued to relish their trophy of conquest, asserting dominance over what was once the Lunarians’ territory. The large Straw Hat could belong to Joyboy himself. And yet, the war is far from over, and the true resolution of this conflict will only come with the eventual defeat of Imu, signaling the restoration of justice and the rightful legacy of those oppressed.

Destiny is Guiding the Way

Events seem too perfectly aligned to be simple chance. The world itself seems to intervene in pivotal moments. The Knock Up Stream is one of a few example. Though a natural phenomenon, its three canon appearances are suspiciously timely:

• It launched part of Jaya to the Sky Island.
• It gave the Roger Pirates access to Skypiea.
• It saved the Straw Hat Pirates by taking them to the White Sea.
• It seems deliberate that the Straw Hats arrived an (one) hour early for the Knock Up Stream, while Crocus confirmed that Roger had only one year to live before ascending to the Sky Island.

It seems the World itself intervened, launching the Upper Yard straight to the Sky Island. This action served to preserve it and keep it safe from the greedy hands of men, especially the World Government.

According to Cricket, Knock Up Stream nearby Jaya island occurs 5 times every month but the location is different each time. Yet, Cricket is able to exactly know the next occurrence location and time. The stream that saved the Straw Hats arrived earlier than they anticipated, just before the Blackbeard Pirates could capture them. The series would have ended there and then.

This pattern is repeated with the Roger pirates, who were saved from certain doom by a sudden storm during the Ed war. Roger's survival was detrimental as he will usher a new age of piracy that would eventually guide the chosen one towards their destined path.

Four hundred years ago, the City of Gold, El Dorado, became the stuff of legend. The world was vast, and the journey between islands treacherous, making Shandora’s location nearly impossible to reach. After the Void Century, the World Government likely did not pursue the city, perhaps believing it lost to time, its people dead, and its island swallowed by the sea. While it was still in its infancy, their focus lay on consolidating power, forging alliances, and erasing all records of the preceding century, save for "the loathsome relics known as the poneglyphs." Pursuing a “lost” tribe would have raised more questions than answers, so they assumed it no longer posed a threat, if it even existed at all.

In this context, Noland was destined to become the liar he is remembered as today, just as Oden’s role was to accompany Roger on his journey to the final island, Laugh Tale. It all comes full circle, as he later entrusted Momo and the Scabbards with opening Wano’s borders to welcome Joyboy. Noland’s so-called “lies” were fitting, for in a way they preserved the city, much like Kalgara’s will continued to protect Shandora to this day.

TL;DR

All of these similarities don’t seem to be mere coincidence, but rather the design of timely fate.

When the world was whole, coexistence among different races was far more natural. The union between the Shandians and humans may have given rise to the first generation of “D” bearers, those whose descendants now carry that initial will. From them came families such as the Monkey, Nefertari, Davy, Gol, and Trafalgar etc.

Promises are meant to be kept. Luffy fulfilled an ancient vow of the Shandians; the promise Kalgara made to ring the golden bell so that Noland could find his way home. The Shandians believed the souls of their ancestors dwelled within the white, sacred trees, guided there by the sound of the bell. Symbolically, its ringing became the bridge that reunited two friends separated by time and fate.

In the same spirit, Luffy will one day fulfill another great promise; Joy Boy’s pledge to Fish-Man Island. He is destined to defeat Imu and, in doing so, complete the ancient promise carried through the generations of Davy’s line, the enduring D connection.

Parallels between Shandians and the D. Clan include:

• A shared and intertwined history
• Deep connections to the Kozuki family through the Poneglyphs
• Prominent moon symbolism
• Dedication to preserving history
• The inheritance of a lasting legacy
• A spirit of defiance against oppression
• A central role in the world’s great conflicts
• Remarkable adaptability and resilience
• The keeping of sacred promises
• And many more

**Fun fact: **“Shandians” sounds a lot like “Indians,” and interestingly, the name “Goa” also comes from India. The Goa Kingdom is located on Dawn Island, a fitting detail, since that’s where our main character was born.

THE END

[graceful vessel]

Amazing work

[last estuary]

👍

[cold mist]

Dude holy shit someone pin that

[last estuary]

[neat kraken]

The amount of effort put into this is insane. Keep it up

[reef notch]

to add to this, I now believe the One Piece treasure will be something similar to the Golden Bell of Skypeia. Oda has said the One Piece is something physical. The Golden Bell is something with massive monetary value, but its main value was emotional, they needed to ring it to fulfill the promise. I think the One Piece will be something that also has that mix of huge monetary value, but it's true value lies in something people have been waiting on for 800 years to remerge again. Might be tied to the ancient weapons, the Golden Bell was used to fulfill the 400 year promise, so the One Piece will likely be used to fulfill the 800 years promise from Joyboy to Poseidon (which is why Roger was too early, since Poseidon wasn't born yet)

[last estuary]

[iron current]

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[turbid trail]

Definitely going to be the mother flame.

[wild vector]

3 emperors have goals they need to achieve before they can head to laughtale. Not to mention they don't have the final poneglyph.

Blackbeard has information about shirahoshi coming to him. We also know "Luffy" is supposed to destroy fishman Island.

However Luffy has his hands full and we still have lots of stuff lore wise that needs to get done. So this Luffy she saw could have been Catarina Devon.

All this is to say I believe Blackbeard will invade fishman island to kidnap shirahoshi.

Next we have buggy. He still needs captain johns treasure. I don't know how it will tie in, but I think buggy and cross Guild are going to invade impeldown.

Thier goal in doing this would be power. Weevil, bon clay, and doflamingo are all incredibly useful. Given the gag nature of Magellan, they might recruit him as well.

Luffy could be heading to marijoa next and coincidentally find the final road poneglyph there. Burn scar man could have sold to marijoa or brought it as some kind of tribute. Either way this would tie in the speculation of government involvement without actually making burn scar a government personnel.

If all 3 emperors are invading, they would all be right around the corner from one another. Not to mention it would further spread the world government making them to thinly spread to respond appropriately.

[cosmic fern]

This is very well made but 1 thing
Catarina Devon isn't strong enough to do that as of now, so unless she gets a power up that makes her able to destroy the fish man island thats not possible
Not to mention it'd be more logical if Luffy himself destroyed it so that some-way they can get to the surface which was joyboys promise to Poseidon

[wild vector]

It doesn't mean her vision was Luffy literally destroying it to nothing. It was just flames and destruction indicating he attacked the island.

If Catarina Devon can transform into Luffy, her and other blackbeard pirates are more than enough to fulfill the vision she had. Acting as Luffy could merely be a way to have shirahoshi with her guard down.

[wild vector]

Joyboys promise is to get them freedom on the surface. Fishman island doesn't need to be obliterated for this to happen.

[cosmic fern]

Theory: Luffy said he has a dream bigger than being Pirate King, and honestly what would make sense is him wanting to change the world. The Red Line is the thing that divides the world. it separates the seas, keeps Fishman Island trapped underneath Mariejois, and literally puts the Celestial Dragons on top of everyone else. If Luffy destroys the Red Line, everything would change. The seas would merge into one, which creates the All Blue for Sanji, gives the Fishmen a way to move to the surface like Joy Boy wanted. That would also make Shyarly's prophecy true about Luffy destroying Fishman Island, not by attacking it, but because the island would fall apart once the Red Line is broken by Luffy.

[iron current]

but is that a dream an 8 year old would have?

[cosmic fern]

Im talking about when Luffy told the crew he had a dream (after the wano arc)

[iron current]

yes, that dream is the same one he had as a kid, the same one Roger had

[cosmic fern]

So he was telling them a dream he had when he was a kid? I don't see that mentioned anywhere

[last estuary]

Yamato iirc
Luffy and Roger shared the same dream.
This 1 min slow mode is so ass

[iron current]

https://tenor.com/view/yamato-see's-roger-in-luffy-yamato-luffy-yamato-and-luffy-yamato-eyes-gif-655093134001612950

[iron current]

i mean the point is that this channel is more or less just to drop and explain your theory and if you wanna further discuss it you take it to #manga-serious

[last estuary]

[steady prism]

!theories @bitter rain not the channel for random agenda posting. Use #manga for that

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[uncut monolith]

i still think his dream is just a world banquet

[sonic ruin]

I think One Piece is a devil fruit amplifier/final awakening that grants the user the ability to impact the whole world instead of only his surroundings. Roger pirates would name it Laugh Tale cause no one in his crew had an awakened devil fruit at the time, so while they were the first pirates in a while to discover it still was useless for their crew in the end. I believe Joyboy used it once, and Long Ring Long Land is an evidence of it (I first heard about this last part in other theories). Maybe Imu also used it once and the D.clan were not affected, explaining the defiance they represent in the world.

[iron current]

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[woven dove]

what u think it is

[keen trellis]

Who are the Gods in the Harley Text

I believe Imu possesses the Earth God Fruit, inspired by the Earth God of the First World—a being said to control a giant serpent. Imu’s Devil Fruit likely allows him to transform into a sea serpent, while Joyboy’s fruit was clearly inspired by the Sun God of that same world.
These gods of the First World didn’t wield literal divine powers; rather, they symbolized certain forces or ideals. The Earth God earned his title because he ruled over the land through his serpent, which served as both his weapon and his source of power. The Sun God, on the other hand, was so named because he brought light to a world shrouded in darkness—a slave who inspired rebellion against the imperial “Earth God.”
In the Second World, the Dream Fruits were born—creations of the Great Kingdom. I believe the Forest God who crafted these fruits was Davy or possibly someone related to him, such as his father. The Great Kingdom was inhabited by dreamers—people who blended invention with nature itself.
Joyboy represented the light of that world and was eventually granted the Sun God Fruit. However, Imu and the Twenty Kingdoms ultimately killed Joyboy. Afterward, Imu ascended as a god, obtaining the power of the Earth God Fruit—the same might that once ruled the world.
Imu’s abilities reflect the Earth God’s influence: control over others and powers resembling those of a sea serpent. As for the Sea God—that’s simply Poseidon, nothing more complicated than that.

[wild vector]

Porche could potentially be a dosundada. We have only seen one and it was the size of a tontotta. However what if they could also be the size of a human?

We know foxy was after rare creatures and races. He had a half fishman half giant. He also had what looks like a buccaneer and what looks like a half gorilla mink.

Porches nose is exactly like the tontotta and she was shown to be very gullible.

Now that foxy is in the new world, the only crew he has left are porche and Hamburg.

I know a nose and gullibility aren't much of a basis, but werent able to speculate that Hamburg is mink untill we were introduced to them.

[wild vector]

If Imu can suck saturns devil fruit back into the abyss before he died, then it's probable the Yami Yami no mi has a similar function.

What if the reason blackbeard can have two fruits is because he can suck a devil fruit soul into his darkness.

Darkness, void, hell. All kinda similar concepts. However we do know that brook returned from the underworld. So maybe the darkness fruit is capable of the darkness of the underworld.

[quick pawn]

I got a theory
The gura gura no mi's true will is to destroy the 'world' but white beard never Awakened the fruit,

Maybe imu is the 'world' and
Blackbeard is after the gura gura nomi and awaken it's ability to take down imu,he might have used yami yami ability to absorb devil fruit from its users

[earnest dirge]

But Marco had implied that the reason was because of his strange body the df is a quirk he only got when leaving the Whitebeard crew

[dusky acorn]

If the Gura-Gura devil fruit and its awakening is so vital, how come Rocks never mentions its importance? He doesn’t seem to treat Newgate in any special way like Doffy would for an Ope-Ope user by his side, for example. If it’s necessary to taking Imu down, then why doesn’t Rocks at least ask Newgate if his fruit had awakened yet by the time they’re now throwing down with Imu on God Valley right now? Even Kid did that with Law versus Big Mom.
Rocks instead simply confirmed whether his crew-mate really wanted to battle with him or not.

That’s why I don’t believe this theory that the Gura Gura is actually pivotal to claiming the world. For all we know, Imu and his side never even had it or used it to create the current world as we know it.
Moreover, Rocks instead mentions 2 important devil fruits that he needs to topple the world. I find it doubtful that there was a mysterious third necessary devil fruit already by his side the whole time. I think the number 2 was highlighted for good reason within this flashback. To draw attention to Loki’s supposed fruit, and create mystery on a second necessary fruit not currently in Rocks’ possession, that’s it.

[fast wing]

Would it detract from the story if Zoro were to fight Mihawk, but for it to be a different kind of confrontation than what we initially were expecting? So if Zoro initially fought Mihawk because Mihawk was secretly aligned with Imu as "God's Champion" or "God's Son" Or something like that?

[solid jasper]

My guess is that bb's strange body alone can house 2 fruits by eating 2 fruits, the power of yami is for extracting df powers from df users.

[turbid trail]

I posted a theory in here earlier that the mother flame is the one piece, or something similar to the one piece. The one piece is a piece of the sun that was brought to earth somehow, that acts as a limitless energy source, and this was what the void century war was fought over for.

I also claimed there were space pirates that brought the one piece to the planet from the sun, and now i remember that lunarians are heavily resistant to burning. They are the pirates who brought the sun with them.

Edit: I also claimed that luffy would eat the one piece, just as hanuman, the god represented by a divine monkey who represented loyalty and freedom, ate the sun.

[last estuary]

Hanuman did not eat the sun.

[turbid trail]

He attempted to, and was bestowed with his powers afterwards.

He mistook the rising sun as a fruit and tried to eat it. The rising sun is another name for dawn… and luffy ate a fruit.

[last estuary]

Yeah, but he did not eat the sun like you suggested earlier. Surely he was bestowed a fraction of sun's power because Surya Dev took him as his pupil after the incident, like the ability to change his size etc.

And also, Lunarians cannot be pirates or dubbed as one since Joyboy was the first pirate according to Vegapunk* Lunarians predates Joyboy since they were considered Gods and lived atop redline before the CDs.

[turbid trail]

It isnt a perfect parallel, but its there. It would also make sense as a way for luffy to successfully challenge the world government. Right now he has the ability to do so, but not the stamina. He loses energy too quickly and reverts to his old form. Eating the sun would give him the ability to stay in gear5 (or so the theory goes).

As for the lunarians, you got me there. But it makes sense that lunarians in some way would be associated with taking a piece of the sun, given their resistance to fire and proximity to the sun, since the redline is the closest thing to the sun

[turbid trail]

At this point im fully expecting a domi reversi on mihawk that zoro must defeat

[last estuary]

I like that theory but I also hate it lol
There needs to be a drawback... if Luffy can have constant uptime, there won't be any stake into their fights.
Luffy has also shown that he can revert back to gear 5 if he "wills" it. Honestly, idk where Oda will go with this.

And you start to wonder how on earth did Joyboy lose since he should have accessed to the eternal flame, no? This is the same guy whose haki made Imu tremble even though he has been long dead.

[turbid trail]

My guess is that imu was successfully able domi reversi joyboys friends, and joyboy was unwilling to kill his friends (like zunesha)

If the domi reversi theory is true that there needs to be TWO nikas (in this case, luffy and bonnie, or even loki) to undo domi reversi, that may be the difference this time around

Also yeah, im sure that with eating the sun comes some sort of significant drawback, but im not sure what it would be

perhaps the drawback is that luffy risks losing himself to joyboy, like who he is and therefor his attachment to his friends. In a similar way to how blackbeards personality significantly changed after acquiring yami yami?

[last estuary]

Zunesha doesn't show any physical signs of being domi reversi'd. We don't really know much about Zunesha to come to a conclusion, yet.
Bonnie is not a nika. It is just a illusion created by the fruit. Idk how the theory goes though.
I mean, if the drawback thing was true, Joyboy would have already taken over Luffy regardless. That fruit is also synoymous to freedom. It wouldn't pan out like you suggested. I was talking about the current drawback; the whole stamina thing. This needs to stay since Luffy is already broken as it is.
BB personality doesn't change. He is the usual himself. People just add agenda to this because they want their multiple souls theory to be correct, but disregard the fact the BB can be jolly, angry, greedy on a whim, similar to Luffy.

[grizzled goblet]

ST. JAY GARCIA SATURN
ST. MARKUS MARS
ST. TOPMAN WARCURY
ST. ETHAN BARON V. NUS JURO
ST. SHEPARD** JUPETER **

For reference, the names of the Gorosei are based on the five elements of Yin and Yang:
• Mercury (Suisei) represents the element Water.
• Venus (Kinsei) represents the element Metal (or “Gold”).
• Mars (Kasei) represents the element Fire.
• Jupiter (Mokusei) represents the element Wood.
• Saturn (Dosei) represents the element Earth.

I specifically used “Gold” instead of “Metal” because both words in Japanese start with the same kanji 金 (Kin) — so it doesn’t really make a difference, especially since Oda likes to play with words.

As for the last one, the word “soil” is a synonym for “earth”, and “soil” starts with “Do,” so again, it fits. But when we talk about Yin and Yang, the actual element is Earth, not soil.

The main idea I’m trying to express is that while the true element is Metal, both “Metal” and “Gold” start with the same kanji 金 (Kin). So, instead of calling it the “Metal Planet” (Kinsei), Oda might intentionally go with “Gold Planet” (Kinsei).

Why do I think that? Because he literally called one of them the “War ruler of Finance.”
That title directly connects to Gold.

And since Wano was once known as the Land of Gold, it could explain why Nusjuro might have been its ruler before the formation of the World Government and the gathering of the Twenty Kings.

[wild vector]

90% of the domi reversi theories I read are grasping on to the word reversi. They try to revolve their conclusions around the idea that Othello is involved.

What if the key mechanic here is darkness.

The demons invitation is probably a hint to domi reversi. The figure has a pretty clear se resemblance to Imus darkness/demon attributes.

I also find it very interesting that oda choose to draw the shadow of the prisoners legs.

The first time we see someone get reversed, it's clearly shown to be a flip. A dark figure emerges and they are immune to all damage.

The biggest clue it could be thier shadows emerging is broggys hand. If it was a true regeneration, why wouldn't his arm reconnect.

Instead it's floating and connected to his body invisibly. His reversed self is a mirror image of the state he flipped in.

Think about it this way. If dorry had his arm cut off. Could moria take his shadow out in two pieces?

I don't believe nika will be some sort of counter to the domi reversi. That just seems like a convenient explanation to give Luffy plot armor to prevent being reversed.

Blackbeard wanting the darkness fruit, Imu wanting moria dead, brooks soul returning from the underworld, and Imus abilities all seem to have a connection.

Look closely at the circle of the flip disc. It's half light and half darkness.

When people's shadows are taken, they refered it it as no longer existing in the world of light. Their reflections no longer exists because they body doesn't reflect any rays of light onto the mirror.

From this I think we can form a conclusion. There exist a world of light and a world of darkness. The body exists in the world of light, and the shadow exists in the world of darkness.

Imu is reversing light and darkness to put the shadow in the driver seat.

Didn't even notice. There's a ring of fire around the demons invitation AND the disc after the reverse.

[sacred folio]

Yo is it official by now that monkey d luffy being joy boy just basically means joy boy and him share the same devil fruit?

[hexed stump]

Yh Joyboy was a past user of the Human Human Model Nika

[hearty charm]

HELL YEAH MY THOERY IS PRACTICALLY CONFIRMED

I did assume the "6 treasures" were what was stolen though

[last estuary]

This might end up coming true once we get back to Loki's flashback lol
It mirrors what is currently transpiring at GV, sort of.

[drowsy gate]

Not really a theory but i believe GodValey is a setup for Elbaf, if Imu lost at GV then the reason why he might lose at Elbaf will be the same : A strong Conqueror's haki

Right now Roger probably dont know it yet but once he realise that his conqueror haki can stop the regeneration then he might try to use all his will to fully stop it

Same thing will happen with Luffy in Elbaf

[fathom saddle]

yep correct but not like at the same time

[bold nacelle]

what imu mean by thy current disposition is quite similar? does she mean she also did this to davy? or joyboy himself?

[keen trellis]

[queen hull]

ik its pretty obv but the reason imu wants to kill the d clan members is because the meaning is most likely davy, as shown in 1164, imu hates davy, almost as much as joyboy, imus trying to end his will by destroying whats left of him

[swift cosmos]

Yet we know they failed that day to do so

[shrewd elbow]

So davy jones, and joyboy are two separate persons, and now we see that joyboy have nothing to do with D Clan

And what if luffy is embodiment of them both? Like being from D clan and having JoyBoy Nika fruit, thats possible so that way he will be unstoppable force in his prime, pure nightmare for Imu

[calm shore]

YO ODA JUST REVEAL IN SBS THAT FRANKY IS QUEEN'S SON

[acoustic anchor]

The voice of all things is rocks

Aka Davy jones

[wild vector]

And gloriosa is his mother!!!

[calm shore]

Wtf

[wild vector]

Went through all the comments on the reddit post and not one person caught this.

The implications of this are huge too. Queen probably attracted gloriosa when he was skinny. Hence his joke that he would get too many ladies if he wasn't fat.

Gloriosa was in love with Roger. If she settled for queen and lost her son, this could be why she's in her bad timeline.

[calm shore]

Crazy if its true

[wild vector]

Pretty sure it is. He makes a joke about gloriosa having body mods. But then Frankys father actually does have body mods. And he may also have some kinda coup de vent.

A lot of the refusal to believe it is the "I don't like nepo piece" mentality.

People didn't wanna believe queen was his dad when it was just a vivre card clue.

[bold glacier]

So, joyboy and davy may have been friends... is there a chance that kurohige may not be that bad? could he have a redemption arc and fight imu with luffy?

[jagged pewter]

Becoming the king of the world was always Blackbeard's goal, and on top of that I think with all the foreshadowing that's been going on with Blackbeard inheriting the will of Davy D. Jones and possibly becoming the next king of the world, it's plausible that he might just take Imu's position as the final villain / king of the world that Luffy will ultimately have to defeat. If you look at the demonic figure in the left side of the mural, you'll see that it has three sparks surrounding its arm, and that might just be the three devil fruits that Blackbeard will have eaten by the end of the story

[wild vector]

I don't think Blackbeard has davys will. Someone is going to be the new king of the world post one piece. If Imus world is all corruption in the shadows and slavery.

Then the new will of Davy will be someone who gives the world freedom and excess.

Luffy doesn't want to rule the world. But he will obviously be a key creator of the new world.

So the only person imo the story is setting up to be the next king is buggy.

Buggy is just in his bad timeline. The goal of cross guild is the creation of a utopia.

Buggy's mercenary group wasn't really profitable because he spent all their money to feed and party. Essentially he put happiness and joy before the pursuit of riches. If he were to apply that to the world, I don't see buggy being a bad king.

[jagged pewter]

Luffy won’t be the king of the world, I mean sure he’d be the pirate king but that’s only a title for someone who is free, not someone who rules over others, which Luffy does not desire. Plus he won’t inherit the will of Davy because he’d have inherited the will of Joyboy. Just because Luffy may bring a new world into being doesn’t make him the king of that world either, and there’s already so much established about Blackbeard wanting to be the king of the world + him being the descendant of Davy Jones that it’d be absurd to claim he somehow didn’t inherit the will of Davy Jones

[wild vector]

Blackbeard is evil bro. He just wants to be another imu

[jagged pewter]

That’s why him wanting to be the king of the world like Imu currently is fits with his character in the first place 😭

[wild vector]

And that's exactly why he won't succeed. But Imu will still be dethroned and replaced.

The only replacement is buggy imo.

[swift cosmos]

The SBS questions just dropped?

[jagged pewter]

Yeah sure you know what it’s buggy just ignore all the foreshadowing about BB being shown in the panel where Rocks says someone will be the one to inherit Davy’s will one day and fulfill the promise

[wild vector]

And sure just ignore everything about blackbeards character being evil and being portrayed as the opposite of Luffy.

Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

[swift cosmos]

Wait, did Oda just revealed that the Kuja quirk only works on the island?!

[iron current]

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[wild vector]

The sbs question about gloriosas double chin was from volume 56(I think) so way before this queen one.

I kinda think the past hormone fruit user could have changed the island so that only females are born there.

But who knows. However the possibility of gloriosa and queen having interactions is high.

And the similarities between Franky and gloriosa were pointed out half the series ago.

[candid linden]

WAIT HE CONFIRMED THAT?

[calm shore]

Yeah check pew's twitter

[misty rain]

Satchels Maffey has some sorta yelling or roaring relation fruit similar to Gab on Shanks crew. So is she getting killed by Garling for only bringing back one baby?

[coarse plank]

The Will of D is not the Will of Davy, his name is Davy D Jones. It means something else entirely.

[swift cosmos]

I thought it was recent

[candid linden]

Ok reading them now, Gedatsu please come back come back 😭

[swift cosmos]

SO we know Saint Charlos ROswald's familiy name

[misty rain]

Are we still going with the Zodiac theme?

[radiant crown]

Currently building theory:

The Harley texts says at the end "and those two will surely meet", and (according to this theory) its referring to the forces embodied by Nika and Davy D Jones, and they have met, embodied in Luffy.

Previously it was thought that Nika or Joyboy was obviously intrinsically related to the D clan. But after the latest chapter we can look back on the evidence and find that there is no direct link. That Imu was scared of them both as separate entities.

[limber nova]

In Norse mythology it said that giants are the evil ones who cause chaos and kill innocents while the gods and goddesses protect the civilians of Asgard like Thor but Loki is half giant and half god so I wonder what oda will do with incorporating Norse lore

Like with ragnarok maybe elbaf will be destroyed by imu if he appears

[orchid hull]

Theory: The sea kings were once the human kings and their families from island nations that existed before the world flooded over. Maybe there's a DF that can turn others into fish and royalty would turn into sea kings, or there are more Fish type zoan DF's we don't know of, that they ate to turn into fish.

[limber nova]

Maybe the D clan engineered humans to be fishmen so they could survive imu’s flood

[copper hare]

My Theory:

Rocks mom is from luffy heritage(Joyboy)
and rocks dad is from blackbeard heritage
which he representing
Someone stood upto at the joyboy's timeline
that was blackbeards/rocks heritage
but they arent exactly the same
Luffy and blackbeard heritage coould be from brothers
if going fully back

[coral wraith]

What problems have you encountered

[leaden talon]

Rock said to imu.. Who did u scare more... Davy or joyboy.. Meaning blackbeard and luffy gonna team up beat imu ..? Hmm

[brisk otter]

then Luffy vs Teach at the end for who is the true Pirate King

[fierce thorn]

Ok I had a really weird thought, could Moria be a Domi Reversi'd version of himself that broke free? Because if he is member of the Kozuki then why does he look the way he does? No other wano member has horns or skin like he does or do people think it's some sort of birth thing like mixed blood of Kozuki and something else?

[plush pike]

Will of D = Will of Davy Theory

My theory from recent chapters is that the Will of D has finally been revealed to be the Will of Davy, and I'll try to summarize my thoughts on it here. First of all, lets address the elephant in the room:

If Will of D = Will of Davy, that would mean Davy D. Xebec is Davy Davy Xebec. Doesn't that sound weird? But there is an explanation for this: In my theory, the original D clan member was Davy D. Jones, and he created the Davy clan. However, he also made friends who belonged to different families. So he made the clan name be an initial in the middle of someone's name, in order to allow people to keep their family names. This is evident in that every known D. clan member we know of has the D. initial in the middle, with a family name before and their given name after.

In other words, in order to avoid saying Davy Davy Jones, he made it an initial in the middle of his name. It's both his family name and his clan name. After the void century, the D. was kept as an initial to keep the true meaning hidden.

Now that I've addressed this point, lets move on to the actual evidence:

"Davy's will" as mentioned in the latest chapter and Doctor Kureha's first mention of the Will of D uses the same phrase:

"The specific wording in Japanese is "デービーの意志" (Dēbī no ishi), which means Davy's will. Doctor Kureha says

"生きてたのか…“Ｄ（ディー）”の意志は" "(“Ikitetaka… ‘D’ no ishi wa” – “The Will of D was… still alive?”)"

"no ishi" implies it's the same exact phrasing in the original Japanese.

In other words, Davy's will can also be read as Will of Davy, and Will of D can also be read as D's will. They're the same original phrase.

We also know:

The D. clan are the sworn enemy of the gods. This is implied to be the celestial dragons. Who do we know that are the sworn enemy of the celestial dragons? The Davy clan. Not only do we hear the celestial dragons say they are the most hated of the clans, accusing them of being "more Buccaneers" (implying that while they do hate them, they don't understand why), but the previous king of the world is said to be Davy D. Jones, making him a direct enemy of Imu's current power structure.

Furthermore, Xebec reveals that the name Rocks was chosen to hide his Davy lineage, probably for the exact same reason as the D. clan hides the true meaning of that initial. Unlike the D in someone's name, Davy is out in the open as a family name, and the moment Xebec realized that it was a dangerous name to have, he changed his name to Rocks.

An interesting extra tidbit is that "Ishi" in Japanese, that refers to will in the 'D' no ishi (意志) phrase, also is pronounced the same as a rock (石). They are written differently, but they are homophones, meaning they are pronounced the same. Oda loves wordplay like this, so it wouldn't surprise me if Xebec chose the "Rocks" name as a nod to Davy's will.

Conclusion:
The D stands for Davy, and the Davy clan has been seeking a way to fulfill Davy's will to oppose Imu and bring the Davy clan back as the true rulers of the world.

[radiant crown]

I don't think this whole inherited will thing is all about putting the Davy clan back in charge, it seems clear to me that this is a misinterpretation that xebec and BB have. The will should be something similar to the ideals of Roger and Garp (and Luffy) i.e. freedom.

I think Xebec has mistaken it, and Imu is mistaken thinking that the true inheritor of the Will of D should emerge within the Davy clan.

WB who learned from Roger about the will of D all but confirmed BB isn't the one.

[swift cosmos]

@wild vector People are facinated by the theory

[broken seal]

BB carries the will of D, even if it’s a perverse one. WB’s comment only reflects that he, along with Roger, was placing his bet on the Joyboy camp. He was backing Ace

[radiant crown]

I'm currently rethinking what we know about Nika/Joyboy, as this chapter put a bit of distance between him and the Will of D

[broken seal]

As far as I see it, there’s no reason to distance Joyboy from the will of D. It’s enough to point at Luffy, who is both Joyboy’s successor and carrying the will of D.

We also know D is the natural enemy of god. “God” fears Joyboy and Davy Jones the most. We know one of those people is a D, makes sense both of them are. Just like Rocks/Roger. Just like Luffy/Teech

[radiant crown]

I don't know, something about this chapter is leading me down the path that the Nika fruit and the will of D are two separate powers that need to come together to defeat Imu, and could be what the harley texts refer to when it says "and the two shall meet"

[broken seal]

The Nika fruit is a separate power, yeah. It compliments what people like Luffy and Joyboy are all about, being freedom

[radiant crown]

I just really don't like the idea that BB represents the Will of D in some sort of battle against Imu, when luffy exists

[broken seal]

It’s not just about the fruit. There’s been an unbroken line of people inheriting Joyboy’s will without the fruit, until Luffy

They both oppose Imu, and also each other

[remote silo]

We still don’t know what the will of D. truly is, so I think this is a premature concern

[broken seal]

I’ve see a few people bring up this line from Whitebeard, when it doesn’t really have to do with what we learned from the last two chapters. Which is Blackbeard will fulfill the promise of Davy Jones

[wild vector]

You mean you assume it has nothing to do with it.

[broken seal]

It would be an assumption to say that is does

[wild vector]

Both are assumptions.

It really just seems like you refuse to consider that blackbeard isn't inheriting davys will.