I tried doing it from the DECORATE\ZOMBIEMEN.txt file, but that didn't do shit.
#classic-doom-maps-mods
ionic stratus
ionic stratus
Because apparently despite that being there, a script call is used that does it even though from what I'm reading you don't need that?
exotic moss
they are in more than one
ionic stratus
God what a clusterfuck.
exotic moss
the variants
it is more organized than it was
I am using it as a base and removing all the garbage
so a lot
ionic stratus
Either way I just want the beheaded ones gone. if RNG seed allows for a lot of them on a map that's early they basically kill the balance.
Wazzat?
light prism
should just play this instead
ionic stratus
@exotic moss So where else do I need to go if I want to purge the headless zombies from my Brutal Doom setup?
ionic stratus
That's what I tried doing. Didn't work.
exotic moss
if it is being called up in ACS need to check that out not sure yet
the spawns must have a txt too
light prism
removing the 'replacebeheaded' state SHOULD be enough
ionic stratus
Doesn't work tho.
light prism
unless that is a depreciated, vestigial method that hasnt been removed, and its all happening via ACS
ionic stratus
ACS?
light prism
scripting
haughty flower
Action Code Script
golden drum
If you don't know acs you should prolly go learn it
haughty flower
"ACS (Action Code Script) is the scripting language that was originally created for Hexen by Raven Software and has been greatly expanded by ZDoom."
ionic stratus
Gotcha.
golden drum
Lets you do alot of things in hexen format and udmf format maps
When you go acs you never go back
inner zealot
exotic moss
I need to delve into it just learned the rest but I am at that point
ionic stratus
So I'm guessing this is going to be an attempt to turn Doom into Zelda 1, but first person?
light prism
youll need to alter gameplay really
inner zealot
Of course
light prism
imagine trying to play topdown zelda with tank controls
ionic stratus
Well, someone made Castlevania work in 1st person, so I'd say anything's possible. ;P
exotic moss
it is
inner zealot
One problem I already have is that you kinda bump into things a lot.
exotic moss
basically Hexen
inner zealot
Since there's not a lot of space to move
exotic moss
needs to be adjusted so might not be totally accurate and to scale keep in mind
ionic stratus
1:1 conversions of the existing Z1 maps may not work that great honestly. You may have to modify them to better fit Doom's gameplay.
exotic moss
^
ionic stratus
Like, keep the basic layout, sure.
light prism
yeahhh the maps are tilebased junk
exotic moss
I plan on doing a concept like that at some point
inner zealot
I'm thinking of bumping it up to 2:1
light prism
imo i would probs reimagine them entirely, keeping the theme and very slight resemblances
inner zealot
Which would be... painful
ionic stratus
Anyway @light prism mentioned a couple script calls that apparently handle Zombiemen replacement. But I can't find where they're located.
ionic stratus
If I could find them that would help. >.<
inner zealot
The map looks cool. but plays like ass. Would only get worse with enemies added
ionic stratus
it would have to be somewhere in the scripts folder though, right?
inner zealot
(Enemies can't leave their own "screen", by the way.)
(So they couldn't wander wherever)
golden drum
Maybe try slowing the player down and removing sprint
exotic moss
for sure
inner zealot
I thought about that
light prism
zscript is mostly undocumented so its a pain in the ass
inner zealot
But then you'd move really fucking slow
exotic moss
my wife noted it was moving too fast
light prism
some of its features are useful off the bat, like conditions, anonymous funcs, etc
exotic moss
you need to
golden drum
so that "Link" isn't running around the zelda 1 overworld like an olympic runner
exotic moss
for sure
to death mountain and back
in 30 seconds
lol
ok delving through brutal 21 now
about to eat and figure this shit out
removed meathshields from decorate but they are still in all the weapon code
so of course it breaks stuff
mainly using Brutal for all the nifty extras and shelving the rest, I am doing several projects that need it's various functions, in the process learning how everything works and making my own mod from scratch on the side...still need to learn this ACS compiler stuff
vocal crypt
I weirldy have an idea of monsters that are like sponges to your guns
like walls
walking walls
no attack
ionic stratus
What I also find odd.
If I disable the new monsters, headless zombiemen still show up.
So it's like that option doesn't even serve a purpose.
inner zealot
Fortress Forever is a good game
It does make you realize why Valve patched out bunnyhopping, though
ionic stratus
Also the script calls I found @light prism seem to just be reference to the option settings, which as I mentioned, apparently do nothing?
haughty flower
Anybody here use GDCC?
golden drum
wuzzat?
haughty flower
alternative acs compiler
golden drum
what's the point of it?
haughty flower
Has more features than regular acs, if you need more
Was wondering why DRPG's conversion to GDCC made it so unstable..
exotic moss
doomrpg?
haughty flower
yeah
exotic moss
doomrpg is unstable in itself
haughty flower
Well 0.10 seems to be, I've not had any problems with 0.9 which is prior to the conversion.
exotic moss
yeah i used them all
after awhile they bug out
defeats the point imo
just me
but i am no expert
haughty flower
yeah they kinda went feature nuts
lol
really is quite impressive though all the stuff they modded into gzdoom
exotic moss
looking into making my own Doom style RPG
I work on several things at once to keep busy
no rush
haughty flower
I'm thinking about working on 0.9 since 0.10 just crashes every couple levels
exotic moss
yeah would rather use Strife as a base
haughty flower
Ohhh
ionic stratus
So I just tried deleting zombiemanvariant2.txt. What happened was what I expected, fatal error due to missing file.
exotic moss
yeah it gets called up @ionic stratus
got to remove any refernce to that
we need to track it down
can't do it that way
haughty flower
Your own RPG mod eh?
exotic moss
yeah
haughty flower
noice
lavish hollow
I've been thinking about my own RPG for quake or hexen 2
haughty flower
eww old 3d haha
RPG for quake would be cool
not really any good engine to work with though
lavish hollow
That's why they need big projects like that
exotic moss
sure someone has to start
lavish hollow
That way people who want mods for them can actually have something to play
lavish hollow
Same here
haughty flower
I still play quake 1 on my tablet once in a while
exotic moss
know nothing of its engine tho
lavish hollow
I've been playing quake more than I have been playing doom recently
It uses a simplified type of C for its coding
QuakeC iirc
exotic moss
I am a total scripting noob so it intimidates me so I have stuck to Decorate
I am easing into it so I don't get overwhelmed
no job so I mod 24/7
lavish hollow
I've also been working on a doom mod but it's a pretty simple weapons mod
light prism
@haughty flower i use GDCC
exotic moss
when I am not sexing it up
my Twin Peaks style mod is actually fairly cool
uses Startanity as a base
to make everything like the Red Room...edited one of those 18 in 1 megawad packs used for survival
added a few more maps
combined custom enemies and sounds in
just for fun really
does Impie post here?
ionic stratus
Man, all this trouble to get rid of one enemy I don't like.
exotic moss
Ghoul School is cool as hell and underated
inner zealot
http://www.moddb.com/mods/zelda-tc I thought about hitting these guys up
exotic moss
used it for some dialog stuff
yeah they stalled a little looked like
assumed you were them
ionic stratus
I'm sad the Metroid Doom mod I saw seems to more or less be dead. No updates since 2014.
exotic moss
biggest issue is open world needs to be split up
caves should be split off like a hub
and dungeons
inner zealot
All the caves will be in one map, and dungeons get their own maps
exotic moss
eats up too much resources
lavish hollow
I wonder if those weird hand monsters in the dungeons will be hard to do
inner zealot
Hm
exotic moss
well they should teleport you nto really
inner zealot
They hit you and you teleport to the entrance?
lavish hollow
Yup
light prism
you'd have to define what 'entrance' means
lavish hollow
They follow you and if they touch you, bam
inner zealot
Oh, anyone here have any experience with weapons?
exotic moss
follows you and kills you up close
like how?
simply replacing them is easy
if the states are not too complex
reloads and such
ionic stratus
Well, I got rid of the include call for zombiemanvariant2.txt, but that creates a new problem.
exotic moss
what?
ionic stratus
Any spot where a headless WOULD spawn, nothing spawns now.
exotic moss
so zombiespawns
inner zealot
Trying to figure out how to make swords work as intended
exotic moss
altogether?
exotic moss
oh
ionic stratus
Since no changes there seem to do anything.
exotic moss
vanilla monster txt has some role in stuff too
noticed that
it calls on either one or the other
not sure in that case
ionic stratus
Waaaaait a damn minute.
exotic moss
tell me more lol
light prism
if you removed BeheadedZombie actor definition, then yes, it wont spawn
this is why removing the replace with beheaded state should have been enough
exotic moss
right but if the other zombies dont spawn either
lavish hollow
@light prism I think he meant what it was replacing doesn't spawn either
exotic moss
let me see here...
ionic stratus
wait, no, nevermind.
exotic moss
testing
inner zealot
I lowered the walkspeed and disabled running, jumping, and crouching
How does it feel?
Well, I slightly increased walkspeed
ionic stratus
I'll take a look. Gimme a sec.
golden drum
gimme a sec to download
inner zealot
Also, dat 1 MB
light prism
inner zealot
Changing to .NSF sounds was a good move
light prism
4kb
ionic stratus
What's that, Cat?
inner zealot
Don't care what it is. I'm loading it
@light prism What the fuck is wrong with you?
haughty flower
Ehhh
golden drum
The scale of the world seems larger now
lavish hollow
HAHAHHA
ionic stratus
move speed seems good so far.
golden drum
Maybe make the player shorter
ionic stratus
Things feel a little boxed in at times due to rocks/trees but technically that's how it would have been in Zelda 1 as well.
Due to the tile based layout.
golden drum
I know it's possible, adventures of square did it
light prism
@inner zealot - What?
exotic moss
i get no beheaded zombies spawning by removing it simply from the zombietext...
inner zealot
@light prism AnnoyingDemon.wad
light prism
what about it
ionic stratus
@exotic moss That's weird. Why do I get them then.
exotic moss
maybe I am not playing long enough
inner zealot
I have one more counter that doesn't involve re-scaling the map
ionic stratus
Possible?
inner zealot
That's to make the bounding box for all the decorations slightly smaller
ionic stratus
From what I've determined a static seed is used to determine replacements, because for me Daedelus map02 always has a bunch of Headless ones.
light prism
i dont see why there is something wrong with me for annoyingdemon.wad
ionic stratus
What gets replaced isn't randomized each time, it's a single RNG seed that's used. That much I've determined.
ionic stratus
God, I wish I was better at mapping.
Because if I was, I would totally want to do a fan based sequel to Castlevania, Simon's Destiny.
ionic stratus
That being Castlevania: Simon's SUPER Destiny (based off the Castlevania 4 levels instead of CV1)
light prism
there are other enemies with weirdness too heh
ionic stratus
But yeah, I'm pretty sure as far as enemy replacement goes, it's seeded, and it's a single seed @exotic moss
inner zealot
@ionic stratus Hit me up sometime, we should try that.
ionic stratus
So if you don't see them on a map normally, you never will.
At least that's been my experience.
light prism
the seed is based on a few things
chances are if you played through the prior map and then exited
the seed would be different
ionic stratus
I've tried loading the same map in question after changing stuff in the pk3.
And it's always the same zombies that get replaced with headless.
And the ones that don't get replaced always stay unreplaced.
exotic moss
hmmm
my edit may have replaced him already
I did see them before in this first level
ionic stratus
Any way you could put up your edit without all the extra resources so it's just a smaller pk3 I could load it after the existing BD? Or would that not work?
light prism
if you're going straight to the map using 'map' command then yes, its likely the seed will be the same
exotic moss
nah it is combined with my megawad
exotic moss
those guys are replaced with cops
ionic stratus
@light prism Oh, that makes sense.
I was using a map command because it takes forever to get to map02 on Daedelus.wad for testing purposes.
Gotta sit through an opening cutscene and crap every time.
@inner zealot I'm curious though. How are you going to handle bosses that lack facing sprites for every direction?
IE, Aquamentus and Gleeok?
exotic moss
they can face you the whole time like Wolfenstein
inner zealot
I was going to experiment with that, Toronto
light prism
@ionic stratus try the 'changemap' command
it simulates an exit rather than teleporting you to the new map
inner zealot
Worst case scenario, I could draw the other angles
ionic stratus
Aquamentus would be kinda weird though because he only has side facing sprites.
inner zealot
It might not look that bad
ionic stratus
And Gleeok is drawn from a bird's eye perspective, not a front facing.
inner zealot
I can make a static decoration with one of his sprites to see if it looks okay
ionic stratus
So he'd have to be redrawn.
inner zealot
I highly doubt it would, though
ionic stratus
@light prism Only problem, that doesn't really matter if the enemy in question is loading all the time, right?
@light prism Or do you think it's the fact I'm using the map command that's causing it to ignore the changes? which...Still doesn't make any sense.
inner zealot
Cutstuff did it for MM8BDM made it work
ionic stratus
Man, y'know what I would love to see for MM8BDM?
A a non deathmatch single player campaign.,
inner zealot
I wonder if they use NSF music...
ionic stratus
Where it just becomes classic first person Megaman.
ionic stratus
Yeah, I know. But I can dream. ;P
lavish hollow
🤔
light prism
all that using the map command will do is reset Timer, which will make the PRNG give the same result each time
changemap won't do that
its not causing it to ignore any changes or anything
ionic stratus
@light prism Fair enough. Though in this case I actually kinda WANT the same results because then I know for sure if the changes take effect.
light prism
just affect the PRNG
inner zealot
I attempted to recreate part of Metroid's map in UDMF
Large scale sidescroller maps don't handle well
ionic stratus
Well yeah.
inner zealot
And forget about automap
ionic stratus
sideview 2D just doesn't make sense in doom as a map style. ;P
inner zealot
Seriously, though
Can someone help me out with the DECORATE on the swords?
I have no idea how to make the swordbeam effect work
That is, them shooting out only when at full health
light prism
sure
ionic stratus
Well, if you're not against looking at other people and how they did it, I know reelism has a master sword that does that.
ionic stratus
yeah, one of the melee weapons is the Master Sword, and it has that particular behavior.
100 health, BEAMS. < 100...Nothin.
inner zealot
Not directly copy, just investigate
ionic stratus
(And then it kinda honestly sucks)
ionic stratus
I know, that was more a rant on the weapon in Reelism.
It's a fun little mod but sometimes you just get crap when the slots aren't nice to you.
Melee category needs the Excalibat.
sagenod.
haughty flower
Reelism is great
ionic stratus
It is pretty great. I just suck at it. ;P
light prism
@inner zealot if you stay online i will give a hand when im home
ionic stratus
I also once had a crazy idea for a Doom 2 mod, but it's way beyond my own scope/capability.
exotic moss
I need the hand of MisterCat at some point haha
ionic stratus
Doom 2: Borderlands Edition. It's basically a Hell on Earth campaign but with randomized loot, quests, etc.
light prism
oh
haughty flower
thats sounds great
ionic stratus
Again, way beyond my scope. But I keep thinking 'Dude, hell on earth as a Borderlands style thing would be great.'
exotic moss
really?
light prism
an inventory system that allowed for 'enchantments' and such
exotic moss
that would help for my Fallout mod
ionic stratus
Anyway yeah, way beyond me if I can't figure out how to nix these headless zombies from someone else's mod. ;P
exotic moss
don't limit yourself takes practice
haughty flower
im attemping to gut drpg to try and fix it
light prism
exotic moss
ooo
haughty flower
thats nice
exotic moss
is that fully operational?
ionic stratus
Okay that's sexy as hell.
light prism
gdcc
haughty flower
nice
exotic moss
super nice
light prism
its 'fully operational' in that the stats and items and stuff exist
but theres no use in that mod because battles were gonna be turn based and i never got around to implementing it heh
exotic moss
right but couldn't that be a pull up menu like in DoomRPG?
haughty flower
Legend of Grimdoom style gameplay?
exotic moss
well I was thinking pause it for the menu
light prism
what is a 'pull up menu'
exotic moss
then real time
light prism
yes, this window system has collapsibles
ionic stratus
But yeah, I just think that'd be fun. Oldschool doom with a hint of loot RPG. Also healthbars and damage numbers. because I like seeing my damage. >.>
I'm obsessive like that.
exotic moss
well that would be ideal but not essential
the loot list would probably swell pretty quick
pouring out of my skull as we speak
light prism
the only issue with dropdowns like that is that mousewheel is unbindable
rather, you can bind to it, but you cant getplayerinput from it, or something
ive never managed to get mousewheel working with getplayerinput commands anyway
exotic moss
yeah that isn't a deal breaker though...Doom4Doom might have did that not sure
or whatever it was called
ionic stratus
Wow, I don't get how the enemy replacements are handled at all
exotic moss
try replacing those sprite names with the names of existing spirtes
just have the same zombie come up
inner zealot
Doom style Zelda logo or Zelda style Doom logo?
exotic moss
if you just want a fix
ionic stratus
That would only replace sprites, not the actual enemy/behavior.
livid hearth
@ionic stratus You probably will want to learn zScript, the way to do damage numbers in zscript is a lot less hacky
exotic moss
hmm havent even seen its behavior
livid hearth
but you won't get netplay capabilities with it
ionic stratus
The behavior's the main problem I HAVE with the beheaded zombies.
exotic moss
what does it do?
ionic stratus
Because they're a 150 health mob versus the 50 health on a regular zombie.
livid hearth
Since ZScript is GZDoom only atm
ionic stratus
They also are pain immune
livid hearth
ZScript can do things on events
ionic stratus
And they have no head for headshots.
golden drum
hey can somebody do me a favor real quick?
ionic stratus
@livid hearth This isn't something I'd actively be pursuing at the moment. It's more just a random idea.
But I appreciate the info.
livid hearth
so like if an enemy gets damaged, it can calculate how much HP is lost and pop out a number using graphics
golden drum
I need one small part of a map playtested
ionic stratus
But yeah, I tried changing TNT1 A 0 A_Jump(1, "ReplaceBeheaded") to TNT1 A 0 A_Jump(1, "ReplacePistol") ...That doesn't work. Still get beheaded zombies.
golden drum
Not sure if people will know where to go
livid hearth
Normally you'd need ACS to check each monster at every n tic interval, which can get very proccessor intensive if the temporal resolution is too high and too many enemies are present
light prism
uhhh
you can probably do some pointer magic and only run a script if the monster is damaged
livid hearth
Pointer magic can work
but that might break down once you get down to enemies being damaged through the secondary effects of your attack
or by each other
light prism
true
just dont bother with pointers then
make a state that gives them a previoushealth counter
then have their pain compare against current health
you could probs do it without acs entirely if you did it right heh
have them spawn individual digits
ionic stratus
Either way right now I just want to get rid of these headless zombies ;P
livid hearth
Finding a good way to efficiently check if a monster is damaged can be a problem, but you may need to do hacky shit like setting the pain-chance to 256, and having the actual pain chance be a state jump, but that introduces the problem of letting the player cancel monster attacks every time a monster is hit
@ionic stratus Make a Randomspawner that replaces the beheadedzombie and only spawns the class you want
with the dropItem property
ionic stratus
Iiiii have no idea how to do that.
light prism
yeah, definitely an easier thing to do in zscript
ionic stratus
Total newb here.
light prism
where you can determine that the monster has been hit but not in pain state, or stuff like that
livid hearth
Alright so you need an actor that points to 3 actors in its header
the name of the spawner actor
RandomSpawner, the class to inherit
and the actor name of the beheaded zombie
in its properties enclosed in the curly braces, you need to define two flags
+IsMonster so that the spawned monster counts as a monster in the map stats
light prism
i dont think this method uses randomspawner
livid hearth
and +FixmapPos to ensure that the monster does not usually spawn stuck in walls or ceilings
and then define DropItem "Actor to replace the beheaded"
ionic stratus
@livid hearth I appreciate this, but I don't understand any of it. I was basically going off guesswork from what I know of programming and what I found in the pk3 when I first tried nixing the headless zombie.
livid hearth
Oh...
ionic stratus
I basically went into the decorate folder, found the zombieman.txt, zombiemanvariant2.txt file, went through them and was like 'Huh, this seems to control the spawn behavior for them.'
And according to MisterCat they should
But nothing I do in the files seems to actually prevent the headless variant from spawning.
livid hearth
Ahh you're trying to edit the pk3
ionic stratus
Yep.
livid hearth
What is the file you're trying to edit?
exotic moss
Brutal 21
livid hearth
Ohhh
ionic stratus
The beta version of Brutal Doom, v21, yeah.
ionic stratus
the best I can do is nerf the headless zombieman to not have 100 extra health compared to the regular ones, but he still has no pain, sound, and no head to shoot, which I find very annoying.
livid hearth
Ohh
exotic moss
it will just call up the normal sprite and your edited txt
ionic stratus
If he lacks a defined head for headshots in his decorate file though, it doesn't really matter, right?
livid hearth
are you talking about the kamikazes?
ionic stratus
No. These are just a headless rifle based zombie with extra health, make no sound, and have no reaction to pain.
exotic moss
no those are the other ones
ionic stratus
Which, if you get several of them in an early map, is kinda dumb because suddenly you have zombies that use more than double the rifle ammo you normally need to kill one.
And no headshot chance for an instant kill.
So yeah, I'm not a fan of a chance for a bullet spongey asshole to replace the less bullet spongey normal guys.
Especially when sometimes i've gotten way too many on an early map.
Also, wouldn't just swapping the sprites break the headless zombie unless I renamed every individual regular sprite to match the headless one I'm replacing?
Because that sounds even more tedious.
exotic moss
tedious is something I said when I did that
ionic stratus
And I don't see how it would remove the headshot problem because if the headless zombie has no headshots coded, shooting him in the head won't cause headshot stuff to occur.
All I'd be doing is reskinning him.
Not changing what he is
(which is a bullet spongey asshole)
exotic moss
you copy over the regular decorate code for the normal zombie
then he has normal stats
light prism
retro i will take a look at the code when i get home
ionic stratus
Alrighty
livid hearth
I figured it out
ionic stratus
Oh?
exotic moss
they hardly show up
ionic stratus
I tried getting rid of it entirely, that didn't work.
Comment is a // right?
Before the line of code you want to comment out?
livid hearth
Did you save the changes?
ionic stratus
Yeah
ionic stratus
unless somehow something in daedalus.wad is causing them to spawn?
light prism
like you have multiple copies of brutaldoom pk3 and you are running the wrong one
ionic stratus
It's not man, I've checked multiple times. And if I make other changes like health, those stick.
light prism
how can you tell
try a visual change
like scale
scale 8.0
giant zombiemen
health isnt immediately obvious and there is random damage to factor in as well
ionic stratus
I dunno man, 1 health and they die from a single shot seems pretty surefire. ;P
...Shit, y'know what though?
I think it DOES have to do with Daedalus and its monster spawning.
Because it's spawning monsters on the fly, as opposed to the old teleporter trick.
And the spawned ones (which add to the total monster count) are always headless.
So I think it's some kind of conflict/issue with BD and Daedalus and how it handles monster spawns specifically.
light prism
that would only be true if BD's zombieman replacement has fallthrough that will always make it headless
can you pastebin the zombieman.txt again
golden drum
I had a map I was making and All of the spawned zombiemen spawned as evil marines with plasma rifles
that was v20b
ionic stratus
I'm not sure how the spawning for Daedalus works exactly, aside from the fact it's making the monsters on the fly if that makes any sense.
Because they're not part of the initial monster count.
light prism
yeah, probably some kind of Spawn
ionic stratus
So I suspect any Zdoom based map that uses that kind of spawning will have the same problem.
light prism
there are quite a few actions that have similar effects
uh
yeah there's nothing special that should make it always end up at ReplaceBeheaded
ionic stratus
And yet that's happening.
ionic stratus
And like @golden drum said, he's gotten all evil marines from zombie spawns.
light prism
its just actor HeadlessZombie : Zombieman?
ionic stratus
It's ACTOR HeadlessZombie: RifleZombie
RifleZombie being what the regular Zombieman is replaced with.
light prism
yeah, but theres no 'replaces' keyword
like Actor HeadlessZombie : RifleZombie replaces Zombieman
I mean, there shouldnt be anyway
ionic stratus
nope. We just have ACTOR RifleZombie Replaces ZombieMan in zombiemen.txt
light prism
ok - replacing is not inherited so that shouldnt be an issue
ionic stratus
Sadly this seems to have gone beyond simple removal of those states.
Since they aren't the apparent culrprit in this scenario.
light prism
they have to be, its stupid
ionic stratus
But that tells me any zdoom based map that spawns monsters that way will have the same problem.
light prism
daedalus has no reason to try and spawn brutal doom specific mobs
well thats easy enough to try
ionic stratus
Yet some twisted form of logic is causing that.
It just took me a bit to realize it.
light prism
make a square map with a playercrossable activation line that runs the action "Thing_Spawn" with some target spots
ionic stratus
...I actually don't have a map editor.
light prism
GET
ionic stratus
I should.
light prism
OUT
ionic stratus
What map format? UDMF?
also loads up editor. ...Oh god he has no idea how any of this works.
exotic moss
yeah it isn't very intuitive
ionic stratus
Well I made a room.
Now I need to figure how you define it as a starting point and how I add spawners.
inner zealot
GZDoom Builder is pretty easy to use once you get the swing of it
Enter thing mode and right click
Instant player spawn
light prism
UDMF :3
ionic stratus
Also I have no idea how to get out of first person view mode.
inner zealot
Q
ionic stratus
Thank you Zavus.
inner zealot
When in first person, you can turn on gravity with G
ionic stratus
Gotcha. Now what about the monster spawn cat mentioned?
Running the action thing_spawn apparently
inner zealot
I can just tell you how to put them down with thing mode
I ain't know shit about scripting
ionic stratus
Well for this test
It has to be using a spawn method.
Hrm...Well, I could always do what I told you to do earlier...Hrm.
ionic stratus
How do I change what map I'm looking at?
IE, if I want to view Map 2 instead of map 1.
inner zealot
You can only have one open at a time
ionic stratus
ooooh, I see.
inner zealot
Save your work in your current map (if it's not in an IWAD)
Then close it and open Map 2
You can close the map without closing the program
Also
"Open map in current WAD"
It's under "File" if you've loaded a map already
livid hearth
Okay i did 2 tests
inner zealot
Yeah, ignore what I said earlier, do that instead
livid hearth
I commented out line 119, and no headless zombiemen spawns
then I uncommented the line and changed the spawn chance to 256
and EVERY zombiemen are replaced with headless variants
also
headless zombiemen do react to pain
I was able to stunlock them with my chainsaw
ionic stratus
@livid hearth Also did some tests, found the problem.
It has to do with how another wad is spawning them.
Because it apparently ignores all the spawn logic and EVERY one that spawns is a Headless.
Right now I'm looking at that map in GZDoom Builder to try and figure out what's going on.
livid hearth
Must be spawning them directly
ionic stratus
It is. They're being added to the map's total monster count, etc.
Unfortunately i know next to nothing about the editor so I can't figure out how to actually view details on the switch that's doing the spawning.
livid hearth
I think there's an acs script being used that finds all monster actors and spawns them at random
What's the other WAD you tried to use?
inner zealot
What's the switch?
ionic stratus
daedalus.wad
And it's a switch in map02 you press early on to get access to another terminal.
inner zealot
Ah
ionic stratus
Pressing the switch also spawns several Zombiemen.
inner zealot
Okay, in GZDoom Builder, enter line mode and right click on the linedef of the button
ionic stratus
Yeah, it's a script execute call
Now I need to figure out how to look at the script. XD
ionic stratus
Odd, it says the script is unknown.
livid hearth
Unfortunately all the scripts use includes to unknown scripts
I think you may need to decompile them
golden drum
@ionic stratus What editor were you using before?
ionic stratus
This is the first one I've ever used.
golden drum
ah
ionic stratus
For doom anyway
golden drum
I see
ionic stratus
I briefly messed around with the serious editor at one point for Serious Sam.
inner zealot
You got SLADE3?
golden drum
who?
lavish hollow
you hoo
ionic stratus
But yeah, now the question is why these scripts are being called that according to GZDoom, don't exist.
haughty flower
what are you guys trying to do
ionic stratus
Figure out why when Daedelus is used alongside brutal doom, any scripted spawns end up being all headless zombies.
Now that I know that's the reason it's happening.
But the scripts that are called which do the spawning seem to not exist in the editor when I open daedalus.wad up
Which is weird.
haughty flower
it's because it's in hexen format
lavish hollow
In vanilla doom without BD in Daedalus, what spawns in place of the headless? @ionic stratus
ionic stratus
Regular zombiemen.
lavish hollow
When was Daedalus made? I doubt it was made for BD, so it shouldn't have a script like you're describing
ionic stratus
Daedalus is from the early 2000s, when ZDoom was just that, ZDoom. GL versions weren't a thing yet.
ionic stratus
Bah. So I'm out of luck on that I guess.
lavish hollow
Probably
ionic stratus
But yeah, whatever it's doing to spawn these zombiemen is ignoring all the spawn rules for them from BD
lavish hollow
Did you delete the headless zombie text file?
lavish hollow
Only other thing I could think of would be to make them replace something else
ionic stratus
Taking out the include from Decorations.txt will stop the crash, but then nothing spawns when it should.
haughty flower
I really don't know how ACS worked back then
ionic stratus
It just seems like BD won't play nice with Daedalus.
lavish hollow
@ionic stratus I wasn't saying to delete it, I was asking if you had it
lavish hollow
Idk if you already tried it, but since it replaces an enemy, I would say try having it replace something else
ionic stratus
The problem is the replacement's done from one file, with another having the actual stats and stuff.
livid hearth
I can't get past the first level in Daedalus
I get on the elevator to engineering
and it just puts me in an infinite loop
ionic stratus
Weird. I didn't get a loop.
lavish hollow
I'd still say try making it replace another enemy
ionic stratus
How would I do that exactly? There's no actual replacement call via actors if that's what you're getting at.
In zombiemen.txt, this is what replaces the standard zombieman. ACTOR RifleZombie Replaces ZombieMan
lavish hollow
There's nothing like
Actor HeadlessZombie replaced Zombieman
ionic stratus
Then there's a bunch of states that can turn RifleZombie into other variants.
Nope.
lavish hollow
Not in the headless zombie file?
ionic stratus
Nope!
lavish hollow
Hm
ionic stratus
It's all done through the zombiemen.txt through these states:
TNT1 A 0 A_Jump(1, "ReplaceAxeman")
TNT1 A 0 A_Jump(1, "ReplaceBeheaded")
TNT1 A 0 A_Jump(140, "ReplacePistol")
But those don't seem to do anything regarding the way Daedalus is spawning them.
Because it always spawns the beheaded variant.
haughty flower
uh ok I have a weird problem, I compiled drpg with gdcc but now all the guns shoot 10x faster, wat
ionic stratus
That's what was throwing me off until I stopped and looked at the fact the monsters were actively being spawned, as opposed to teleported in from somewhere else on the map.
The only thing we have on the headless variant is this, and it's not a replacement call. ACTOR HeadlessZombie: RifleZombie
So I'm not really sure what I could change in this scenario.
inner zealot
I have an idea
ionic stratus
@inner zealot what's that?
inner zealot
A way to play with the FDS version of the soundtrack
ionic stratus
Oh, separate idea.
And I dunno, I wasn't big on the FDS version of the soundtrack.
Only time I really felt it was an improvement was on Metroid 1 since it had the item theme we're all used to, versus the US version's.
haughty flower
nvm fixed it
inner zealot
It'd be a nice option, though
ionic stratus
True.
inner zealot
I think the only difference is the title screen, actually
ionic stratus
@inner zealot Also, I assume you're going to be having the sword be the "gun" and hexen used items will be your inventory based items, right?
inner zealot
That's the current plan
ionic stratus
The question then becomes though...How do you handle the shield?
inner zealot
I thought about it being an alt fire
inner zealot
Once you get the magic shield, of course
ionic stratus
What about the regular one? It can still block physical stuff like rocks/boomerangs/spears.
inner zealot
I think right clicking and losing the ability to move is the best way to translate it over
ionic stratus
That seems a bit harsh, since you still had full mobility with your shield up in Z1 since it was a passive block thing.
I'd say reduced movespeed sure, but complete immobility is a bit much.
inner zealot
As I remember it, you had to stop moving for the shield to work
ionic stratus
Nope.
You just couldn't be attacking/using an item.
Your shield is considered up in the direction you're facing as long as you aren't doing any kind of action other than movement.
inner zealot
Oh
ionic stratus
Now collision could get weird in certain scenarios, yes.
For example, a fireball's coming from an angle, and you're running forward.
And by the time it reaches you, it hits you from a side you aren't facing.
ionic stratus
At least I'm pretty sure that's how it worked. Hell, I'll check.
inner zealot
Cuz, either way, you can't attack
ionic stratus
And I agree on that regard, if only because passive blocking would feel a bit OP.
But hang on a sec, imma verify something
Yeah, I just ran into an octorok's shot head on. Blocked it.
inner zealot
That clears that up
ionic stratus
But yeah, if you wanna use active blocking, I say have it reduce your move speed.
Like Link's awakening.
I agree with the altfire logic though. it'd be easier to do that way.
inner zealot
And more logical for a first person game
ionic stratus
Russian Overkill had guns with alt-fire forward shields.
So it's a thing people have done
inner zealot
And this has to work alongside sword beams
ionic stratus
Also when you get further into mapping, one additional thought.
Try adding some variance to the walls. What I mean is like...Don't have them all be 2 blocks tall and perfectly square shaped.
Maybe try adding some hill effects or something to make them look more like natural terrain/rocks.
Add some visual flair to the thing.
Mind, this is after you get the basic layout working.
inner zealot
I thought about that, too.
ionic stratus
Get a functional map before you make it pretty, I say.
ionic stratus
Plus for Death Mountain, I think you'd kinda HAVE to add some kind ofr vertical aspect to it, to make it feel like an actual mountain.
inner zealot
Which also gave me the idea of using a titlemap
Yeah, I've been making it go slightly up
ionic stratus
Awesome.
inner zealot
I haven't gotten to the mountain part yet, though
I want you to be able to look down on the overworld when you're at thee top
ionic stratus
That's how I'd do it too.
inner zealot
Originally, the cieling was two blocks tall consistently
ionic stratus
Yeah, that kinda kills the mountain part of death mountain. 😉
inner zealot
Only changing to accomodate the dungeons, which I moved higher up
When I started going uphill, I realized that wouldn't work
So brought all of the cieling like 2000 units up
ionic stratus
The dungeon statues you see at the entrance, and in certain trap rooms...Hrm. that'd be another fun thing to have to do.
Since they're statues that face a single direction.
ionic stratus
Unless you just keep them facing the same way regardless, which I mean, Doom did that.
inner zealot
Or the doors you have to blow away with bombs
ionic stratus
That's going to require scripting I'm sure.
inner zealot
Which I know next to nothing on
ionic stratus
Guess you get to learn! 😉
inner zealot
That is kinda the point
OH
I do have some slight changes I want to make
To make some things less cryptic
You know how you have to push some rocks to unlock shortcuts?
ionic stratus
Changes can be good if they don't detract too much from the original but improve quality of life.
inner zealot
I was going to make those purple, or something
ionic stratus
Via the power bracelet? Yeah.
Funny enough, I had a similar thought on a Zelda like game I did a design doc for, but never any major coding.
My solution to 'How do you find out where the secrets are' was a spell you could learn called Divine Guidance. It would for a few seconds, highlight any secret stuff in a room. IE, stuff you could push, blow up, etc.
ionic stratus
Could do something similar with the Power Bracelet though.
Have it so once you have the bracelet, pushable rocks and stuff are marked via some kind of effect so you know you can push em
inner zealot
A color change, for example
ionic stratus
Yeah.
inner zealot
I actually do have a solid plan for the lost woods
ionic stratus
Teleporters?
ionic stratus
Heh.
inner zealot
Have the actual forest somewhere out of bounds
ionic stratus
But yeah, part of me almost, ALMOST wants to try and learn mapping.
If only to try and do a themed mapset for a singleplayer mod I love.
inner zealot
I, and others here, can help out with that
ionic stratus
But level making has always been a weakness of mine. i couldn't even really come up with anything impressive in Mario Maker.
The idea in question was actually trying to do a companion level pack to be played with the Trailblazer mod.
inner zealot
Can you script at all? Wanna exchange services? Heh.
ionic stratus
Nooooope. ;P
inner zealot
I kid, of course. But not really.
ionic stratus
But yeah, I look at Trailblazer and I'm like 'This needs an homage level pack that uses stuff from every 80s action movie ever.'
inner zealot
I experimented with grids
ionic stratus
IE, Escape From New York, Die Hard, Predator, etc, etc.
inner zealot
Doom doesn't like straight lines
The bow seems like a straightforward weapon
That brings up rupees, though
ionic stratus
I always thought rupees = ammo was dumb myself. ;P
inner zealot
I'm not allowed to change it
inner zealot
I'm only allowed to tweak things that don't translate well or clear up ambiguity
ionic stratus
When you say allowed it sounds like someone else is setting the rules here.
inner zealot
I could make a follow up mod that's more inspired than copied
inner zealot
Zavus, I think
light prism
oh that guy
inner zealot
What an ass he is, am I right?
ionic stratus
@TheMisterCat Pretty sure we can't do anything with the issue I had
Since I'm almost certain it has to do with the ACS scripting used by Daedalus.
light prism
it may, but that would be very strange
unless daedalus was specifically made to be played with brutal doom
ionic stratus
I tried looking at the map, the script is compiled so I can't analyze that either.
prisma saddle
@light prism Wanna play Roomsies later?
ionic stratus
@light prism I heavily doubt it. This was back in 2003 I think?
light prism
@prisma saddle - sure, maybe we can go with the layout over detail method this time, make it faster
prisma saddle
Yup.
light prism
@ionic stratus , yeah, then theres probably something that can be done
if you cant replicate it with OTHER wads i'd be amazed
so @inner zealot you wanted a method to fire projectile off sword if at full health right
inner zealot
Correct.
light prism
k
just need to set up my new phone
cant even figure out how to put the sim card in
inner zealot
Is that why you were out?
light prism
no, i was at work
prisma saddle
What sorta phone is it?
light prism
yes, you can have two sim cards
but i cant even figure out how to put in one
ohhh it has it engraved on the back
haughty flower
light prism
@inner zealot do you have a sword set up already?
inner zealot
I... am not at my computer anymore
Because it's late and I'm heading to bed soon
Think you could work with the fists or some other default graphic?
inner zealot
That's probably for the best
light prism
its pretty simple
inner zealot
The sprites are kinda
Poo
Pretty much the same image (Zelda sword sprite) with different offsets
haughty flower
inner zealot
It doesn't look wrong, just unimpressive
I'm probably gonna be working on it tomorrow
(Likely long into the night)
I'm heading out for now, though.
light prism
seeya
inner zealot
Ciao.
golden drum
Guten Nacht
ionic stratus
Heh.
@light prism Part of me kinda wants to learn mapping, but my creative skills are kinda lacking along with the practical skills of mapping. x.x;
haughty flower
light prism
learning anything requires just diving in and giving it a go
no matter how shit you think you are
you dont have to keep everything you make
haughty flower
haughty flower
Don't be like Omegalore
ionic stratus
Fair enough.
light prism
also gzdb may look daunting to start with but with hotkey use its pretty easy
modes - V L S (vertice, line, sector)
Q toggle 3d view, SEDF (WASD shifted to the right by 1) to move around in 3d
ionic stratus
Why shifted to the right by one?
light prism
left click select, right click edit
exotic moss
throws me off
light prism
it just is, also A is align in 3d mode so probably that
mousewheel does plenty of stuff in 3d mode
up and down for sector heights, shift-mousewheel for finer control
shift-mousewheel on surfaces (in UDMF mode) to change their brightness levels
exotic moss
noticed that on accident
light prism
heights of actors
ANGLE of actors (its shift or ctrtl or alt or a combination of them, idk)
rotation of floor/ceiling textures
to start out i would just go new map and then CTRL-D to go into draw mode
map out some shapes, you can go off-grid by holding shift
prisma saddle
@light prism
ionic stratus
So weird question about mapping in GZDoom, if I decide to get into it.
Is it possible to add comments to a map?
Like you would in code?
Like, just an object or something that literally has no function in the map but can be viewed in the editor as a comment?
ionic stratus
Nice.
The way I see it, I'd probably start with basic map layout then work on detailing rooms.
light prism
ionic stratus
So I'd need comments for labels/reminders on what I'd be doing with various parts of the map as I got to that point.
light prism
thats a good idea really
i have never done it personally but if you wanted some pro consistency it would be useful
would slow the process down a bit perhaps
ionic stratus
Commenting? or that approach of 'Layout first, pretty it up later.' ?
light prism
i find layout-then-prettify difficult because often i end up trying to make my layout fit around what i plan the decoration to be like
ionic stratus
With the way my mindset works, if I tried to do every last detail in a room before moving on to the next, I'd probably NEVER get it done. ;P
light prism
yeah, i have lots of those heh
ionic stratus
I mean, like, I'd make each room the right size to begin with and everything but
haughty flower
what
prisma saddle
@light prism
ionic stratus
Jesus fucking christ there's a lot going on in this map
light prism
are you playing on ultra violence?
ionic stratus
Hell no, I suck. ;P
I meant more in terms of the scripting and everything
It's an impressive map though
Though I ran into a bug. I think something's not working right because some hell knights were standing on some floors that moved up to become walls
And now I'm stuck with no way out. P
ionic stratus
Yeah.
The bars are gone.
But the hell knights jammed up the walls and got stuck in the ceiling.
ionic stratus
Can't get to it. Again, behind the bars were walls where passages used to be.
But they didn't raise fully at first because hell knights were on top of them.
When I killed the knights, they ALMOST reached the ceiling but not quite.
I suspect something broke.
prisma saddle
@light prism
light prism
haughty flower
that 10tex.pk3 was cool
something that I didn't like was the music changing every few areas
but I guess it was just that
light prism
sad
haughty flower
k
light prism
i guess
i was just testing if i could make it sync up and stuff
to when the bigger fights kick in
prisma saddle
@light prism
ionic stratus
I assume it was a tech demo of sorts given the name. ;P