Again, something like that would make things incredibly more streamlined and less hacky.
#classic-doom-maps-mods
storm lava
storm lava
??
shadow bone
Why not go to the ZDoom forums/server and ask him? It's not like it's a secret passworded club or anything.
And requests are taken much more seriously if they come from the person who wants them, because otherwise we play the "telephone game" trying to get the right intent.
red peak
ZDoom forums are kinda low activity
shadow bone
Not really
red peak
There's plenty of active people, but posts come slow
shadow bone
It's not real-time, but it's far from low activity by traditional forum standards. There's usually 2-3 pages of unread threads if I leave it alone for a day or so
shadow bone
Besides, ZDoom does have a discord that's actually a bit more active than this server despite fewer people.
red peak
I get like 1 post a week
shadow bone
Of course it depends on whether people are interested in your thread 😛
storm lava
@shadow bone By server you mean Discord server?
If there's a ZDoom Discord and he's on it then I'd certainly be down to have a talk with him.
Work on the map is halted otherwise.
Which sucks.
novel isle
There is a waiting room you have to go to though, and you might need to be registered at the ZDoom Forums to get in.
storm lava
Dammit.
Hate registering for things that I'll only use once.
Sure it requires a forums account?
novel isle
they might have changed the last part, but I can't remember
novel isle
since searching for the topic brings up that "other" discord link that's definately NOT official
shadow bone
You can post as a guest on the forums. In this case it's better to do that since things get lost in the shuffle.
You don't strictly need an account for the server but it helps.
storm lava
It is a Discord server right?
shadow bone
Yes.
storm lava
Can I snag a link from you?
shadow bone
Again, forum is better for this though, and you can post as a guest.
shadow bone
I'm on mobile right now. It's just zdoom.org, look for GZDoom builder in the projects > software sub forum. The link to the discord server is in Off topic sub forum I think
storm lava
Thanks.
Seems I actually can't post as a guest.
So far I haven't seen a link, just people posting their Discord info.
Nevermind, google is my friend.
cedar chasm
anyone here familiar with importing MD3 Models into GZDoom?
haughty flower
true galleon
this nerf gun is now a map
pearl sundial
i am proud of you
red peak
@warped rampart Look, it's your favorite.
pearl sundial
@true galleon now make it into an actually level that has some playablility
true galleon
after i texture it with the corrosponding colors
lavish hollow
Looks really simplistic
lavish hollow
Didn't say it was a bad thing lol
true galleon
k
true galleon
its done
here is the wad, intro and intermission are mm2wood.mid, e1m1 is foster the people - pumped up kicks and e1m2 is smash mouth - walking on the sun
weak lodge
what did i play
haughty flower
A joke.
warped rampart
Oh, hey, that’s a Strongarm
red peak
Isn't the Strongarm blue?
warped rampart
I think? I might be thinking of the wrong gun, but the shape looks a lot like a Strongarm to me
red peak
It's supposed to be a Maverick, I think
vocal crypt
looks like it
true galleon
@vocal crypt The wad is Nerf Guns As Doom Maps.wad. The Maverick REV-6 is in E1M2 and the Nite-Finder EX-3 is in E1M1. All levels retained their orignal names because I'm too lazy to change them in the editor that I am using, which is SLADE v3.1.2 Beta 4.
true galleon
the first doom game
red peak
As long as Mark never finds out. 😃
red peak
@warped rampart
warped rampart
Yeah, that's not really allowed
royal wave
Let's one up these guys and do it in the Doom engine
Check it out, ladder prototype. THis could totally be done
unreal oyster
i prefer the "bump special + thrustthingz" method for ladders personally
the water sector method has the annoying reverb issue
royal wave
yeah that is an issue
Maybe do the super steep stairs method
because being able to stop at a ladder is important
cover it up with invisible 3D floors
unreal oyster
actually i think there might be a better way to do ladders with ZScript as an option
some custom "ladder" actor which sets some boolean on the player class so they use custom ladder physics
of course, would require a custom player class, but that's basically a given with any sizable TC
royal wave
yeah
warped rampart
I forget, are moving platforms possible in idTech 1?
I mean, in source ports, I should say
unreal oyster
kinda, depending on how much patience you have
you can't move a sector or 3d floor horizontally so you basically need a 3d model or voxel to do it
fair blade
Would it be possible to have a system like this in Snapmap?
1 players: 4 lives
2 players: 3 lives
3 players: 2 lives
4 players: 1 life, permadeath
I saw a system where there was scaling in difficulty based on how many players, but frankly, it wasn't very good... you fight five Mancubi on 1P, you fight an entire hallway of Mancubi on 2P, 4 players must be Hell
lavish hollow
I don't think that's possible
agile sparrow
My project I'm working on, It's a late 90's/ 2000's themed wad
Best played using zdoom with 300x200 video so It looks like an old wad
royal wave
Wad is clean
royal wave
Played the first map
agile sparrow
That was fast
royal wave
first thing I would immediately recommend is not hiding secrets behind switches that use textures not associated for being switches
shadow bone
That's what she said
agile sparrow
Fair enough
royal wave
I only knew to look for something like that as it's something a lot of new mappers tend to do
agile sparrow
I didn't want to make It very obvious
royal wave
and addmitedly something I do when I want to hide an easter egg
agile sparrow
I'll figure out a new way
royal wave
you can still hide switches pretty well, or you can swap them out for walls that can just be opened
and hint at them being there via color difference or slight shift in texture alignment
agile sparrow
The first two maps aren't as good as well the rest of them
unreal oyster
1 suggestion is to hide a switch behind a mid texture, it has the same effect but feels a bit more organic and rewarding
agile sparrow
the first one might be replaced before the full release
lavish hollow
@shadow bone
Him: that was the best night I've ever had
Her: first thing I would immediately recommend is not hiding secrets behind switches that use textures not associated for being switches
unreal oyster
generally it's better for secrets to make the player feel really clever rather than just noticing "oh that texture's slightly different"
agile sparrow
A few people have told me that they like map 4 and 5 the best
royal wave
and maybe a teensy bit more ammo here and there. Not saying keep the player topped off at all times, but ammo management is something I really dislike in a vanilla doom map
royal wave
Yeah that could work, plenty of pistol ammo everywhere already
agile sparrow
I kinda wanted the player to get more use out of the pistol and chainsaw on that map
mostly the pistol
I suppose It was easy to get the shotgun right?
royal wave
Also the left most light here isn't lit like the rest
And yeah, shotgun was easy enough to find
agile sparrow
Fixed
royal wave
👍
agile sparrow
Are you on map2 or?
royal wave
Nah I try not to get too deep into a game before work
royal wave
Will do when I remember
agile sparrow
neat oyster
true galleon
warning: unbearably hard
proper kettle
Dank
elfin ruin
royal wave
Heretic is running on the Doom engine
royal wave
it's relative, it's fine
fresh arch
I have an acs question
First, I want to declare a numeric variable, and then in my scripts change the number of the variable
Second, I want to set up a "check what variable number is" and set up "if variable x then do this, if variable not x do this different thing"
int ShuttleAirlock;
ShuttleAirlock=1
doesnt seem to work
royal wave
int ShuttleAirlock = 1; should fix it
I believe you have to define the variables when you declare them in ACS
fresh arch
ah i'll try that thanks
how would I then modify that variable within the script?
the same way?
royal wave
Same way
zinc egret
I added an easter egg to my RDND mod
red peak
Cool
lavish hollow
Is it a reference to the clockwork orange
pearl sundial
good job
fresh arch
now im trying to figure out linepoertals
the wiki says "The line should have enough empty space to allow for something to pass through it." but i am confused what this means
unreal oyster
it means that the portal needs to be a 2 sided linedef with enough space behind it to contain the actor that you expect to go through
so you need a sector behind the portal
unreal oyster
at least as big as the thing you want to go through
i generally make them >64*>64 if possible
if that sector isn't there then the physics engine doesn't allow the actor to go through the linedef
fresh arch
yup, was previously visible only
but does make for a great way to do windows when teleporting isnt functional
Im working on a project where I can make a spaceship that travels to different parts of the map with the magic of portals, it seems perfectly feasible
unreal oyster
yeah, but there's actually a visual-only portal type for that reason, heh
by the way, what type of portal are you using? in most cases (unless you need the portal to be on a polyobject & move) you want the static (eternity style) portals
fresh arch
oh i was using interactive
unreal oyster
sound travels through them and AI is aware of them
yeah, so if you tried shooting a rocket through the portal it'd have some really strange sound where the sound would seem to move somewhere else
static doesn't do that
and AI can work with static portals and walk through them, fire through them, etc
but it all depends on the assumption that they won't move, hence the name
if you need a moving portal, then interactive is for that
fresh arch
what do you mean by moving?
unreal oyster
if you put an interactive portal on a polyobject, you can then move that polyobject and the portal will move with it
fresh arch
oh so static works just fine if i use Line_SetPortalTarget on it via scripts?
unreal oyster
oh actually no, that's the other reason you'd want to use interactive
static portals work because of an assumption that they will always stay in the same place
which allows a lot of AI calculations to be made
if the portal is moving or changing target, that assumption is nullified
fresh arch
gotcha
I'll be aware of that then and not put the player in the position of using it to peekaboo
lavish hollow
Do projectiles travel through portals?
shadow bone
Only certain types of portals
But yes
If your portal does not need to change/move, it's best to use "Static" as it's the most compatible.
royal wave
I'd personally recommend silent teleport if you're tight on space, but you also sacrifice AI
haughty flower
sorry for asking this again, is there a good way to start learning zscript
converting decorate into ZScript?
royal wave
Well ZScript is pretty much Decorate with slightly different formatting
But you're granted a lot more access to how the actor behaves
royal wave
haughty flower
wait no scrap that, i don't need ZScript for the time being
royal wave
Nah Decorate is still pretty flexible
haughty flower
like, in decorate
royal wave
Yes
haughty flower
okay, since that's what i need for now
haughty flower
except aiming is a thing
royal wave
You can force mouse look to not go up and down iirc
haughty flower
alright
unreal oyster
zscript is much, much cleaner for complete game-style overhauls
with zscript the player class has a movement function that you can completely override
which is ideal for something like transforming the game to be top-down
royal wave
Remake earthbound
plush sapphire
Doombound 
pearl sundial
lol
vestal basin
Ey, can i get some help? I'm working on a wad, and for some reason a bunch of textures just up and broke on me.
lavish hollow
You'll need Elmer's Glue
warped rampart
Do the textures look fine in the program you’re using? That seems to be kinda common.
vestal basin
Here's a bunch of samples. I think it may just be a faulty pack, i'm going to look through real quick and see.
red peak
I wish tag 666 worked on maps other than the ones they're restricted to.
safe timber
warped rampart
@haughty flower You’d also need to make a simplified version as well, for people who use the “fullscreen” HUD
haughty flower
Oh, yeah
unreal oyster
"need"? not really
could just call the same function for both HUDs (assuming ZScript)
that's still possible with SBARINFO but it's just a 'lil copy-pasty
fresh arch
hooray! I made airlocks work and I now fully understand map variables and how to use and modify them with scriptd!
as well as portals which are nifty
Now I just need to set a project for myself that i'll actually finish
warped rampart
Yay progress!
fresh arch
played through city of the damned: apocolypse and was floored. But reluctant to give up my current project until I work out all the technical kinks
things I still need to master: 1) computer terminals; 2) moving cameras attached to monitors
although hot damn are blood tectures good for contemporary settings
real tempted to do a silent hill thing
test map with working airlock and portals
in case anyone cares to see what i did. I carefully annotated the script so if anyone reading this years later cant figure it out like i couldnt well there you go
unkempt wadi
so for a few months on-and-off i've been looking for help with a dodge/dash script for my mod and just a few weeks ago i found the script in lithium for its dodge, which is just about what i'm wanting for this project. the thing is i don't know c++, among other issues, so while i get the gist of how it works i can't work it out enough to learn much. could anyone here please walk me through it some time? this is like the last thing i need to make my mod's gameplay modifications complete, so i'd really appreciate a bit of help here!
light prism
@fresh arch i actually did system shock style camera/alarm system with viewable camtexes a few years ago
never really utilized it for anything
you could even supply tids for klaxon/glowy lights on the walls that would sound off/pulse
light prism
the camera will track and pitch to follow you, and gives an overbright blindness kinda vignette effect if you look into the beam
some aspects of stealth would be pretty easy to implement, others not so much
havent really messed with zscript much yet, but i dont know if its possible to determine a players light level based on the actual sprites brightness, as it could be altered by different factors (sector light, transfers, color, fog, dynamic lights)
you can determine the light level of a sector the plyaer is standing in easy enough, but for a hardcore stealth mod that wouldnt really be sufficient
you'd have to redo sound propogation from the ground up, but it would be very plausible
fresh arch
oh wow thats a cool thingy. What i meant was just a camera thing which sent its input to a wall and then move the camera in a direction, maybe while also adjusting its angle of look, in order to give the appearance of a spaceship moving in space kinda like the intro for that one wad. Then, just change the teleportal to the dock of that portion of the level. Combined with a terminal to select your destination and you have a mobile spaceship effect in all but fact.
light prism
nowadays it woudl be better to do a polyportal vehicle for that sort of thing
like a literal moving ship 😛
fresh arch
nah
thats not versatile enough and runs into a host of potential problems in motion while player is inside
light prism
er
no, it doesnt
the inside is completely disconnected from the moving outside section
in essence, it is not moving
only the polyobject with the portal lines on it is moving
fresh arch
oh, yeah, but thats indistinsguishable from just changing the portal's destination via script
light prism
small example
you could easily make a spaceship shape and have it do the same kinda stuff
fresh arch
oh wow thats immensely useful for trams
light prism
the only thing is that sound does not travel through them, and AI is funky
fresh arch
Yeah, non eternity portals
light prism
i tihnk what you want from your description is a moving sky portal view
rather than using a camerat exture
which would look flat
fresh arch
but yes I hadnt considered making the interior ship's viewport a portal and then moving the portal on the other side as a polyobject
thats actually a much better idea
light prism
polyportals for life dawg
fresh arch
sigh. Now I just need a project i'm enthused to work on
light prism
haha
fresh arch
I got 3 general themes I want to explore but they are all big things
and can;t concentrate to really start any as I get bogged down in making elaborate detail for days
fresh arch
project 1: doomguy is on a spaceship which can freely change its destinations along a long list of presets that open up as progress is made. Maybe elaborate it out in either a systemshocky way, a traditional doom way, a lovecraftian way; largely irrelevant once base mechanics set up
haughty flower
@light prism so you are a mapper too?
fresh arch
project 2: use blood 1 assets to make a contemporary-ish atmospheric mod about traversing abandoned buildings in a city-like environment but use portals and other tricks to teleport the player around for various spooky effects. essentially silent hill
project 3: use shopkeeper scripts and their derivations to make a metro2033 like environment to roam around in. post apoc low tech subways yo
light prism
@haughty flower - ja
@fresh arch - portals would be great for a city-like environment, your sandbox map could be uber low detail and just have interior cells for each building
fresh arch
yeah theres a huge ammount of tricks that portals can be used for
like fake room over room so computers don't explode
prisma saddle
Or elevators.
fresh arch
but also more creative things like changing the interior to a hellscape whose interior proportions are larger than exterior
prisma saddle
Or um, TC like Sanity mechanics.
fresh arch
Ive decided imma go with fake elevators with portals
trim falcon
pet TheMisterCat
fresh arch
real elevators with 3d floors to do room over room is just exessive and unneccesary
trim falcon
fake elevator is not real elevator
but as long you can convince the player using real elevator
fresh arch
fake elevator is indistinguishable for all intents and purposes
trim falcon
it's kay
fresh arch
door close, lil earthquake, delay, change portal, bam done
trim falcon
the portal wall is changeable ?
trim falcon
does it have real depth ?
fresh arch
its indistinguishable from any other area you can walk through
light prism
it doesnt need to
fresh arch
EXCEPT
light prism
unless you are able to access the inside of the shaft from any other level
unreal oyster
The earthquake method is kinda lazy if you have portals :P
light prism
without being inside the evelevator
unreal oyster
At that point it's a glorified silent teleport
trim falcon
I usually IDMYPOS
light prism
however this is basically how any modern game would do it
use elevator time to load resources, plop the elevator at the exit point
prisma saddle
Um, quicktime doors for loading screens.
trim falcon
but problem occur when you trying to jump
light prism
fallout 4
trim falcon
you cannot jump at all
unreal oyster
I've not really seen that technique too much in games released recently, but it's definitely used in valve games, because source isn't designed for big maps
unreal oyster
If GTA 5 does that, then it's nigh-on unnoticeable
trim falcon
someone bring a wrench into elevator in half life 2 engine
light prism
yes, it is supposed to be unnoticeable
fresh arch
@unreal oyster silent teleporters never went out of style
light prism
its just precaching lod and whatnot
trim falcon
the game physics broken
prisma saddle
I'm pretty sure Resi 7 might use silent loading screens.
unreal oyster
Silent teleports should go out of style because you can do it better now :P
light prism
silent teleporters are great if you can predict that there will never be any multiple actor interaction (read: firefight) anywhere near them
unreal oyster
Put some windows in your elevator and use a vertical portal
That's the best way imo
trim falcon
does anyone use FOV trick for teleporting ?
unreal oyster
Bit more work but it looks and feels way more impressive
light prism
yes, instead of teleporting i just set fov 1 and it feels like youa re somewhere else
light prism
i wouldnt mess with fov unless you can guarantee its going to be re-set to the players preference afterwards
unreal oyster
I'd interpolate the fov up to 180, then teleport and immediately set the fov to 1, then bring it back up or something stupid like that
And yeah
Make sure you store the fov first
fresh arch
i need an agreed upon texture pack to use, and a one or two sentence idea, and i want to just crank out environments
fresh arch
fuck it ive decided. Just gonna ignore all semblence of story and do contemporary cityscape with blood assets and silent hill it up with portals
fresh arch
eh, i'll figure out anything not map detail related when i hit the line limit
unreal oyster
Which format? Because the udmf line limit is pretty goddamn high, if it even exists at all
fresh arch
thinking about anything else will stop me from making lines that connect to more lines and before you know it im bogged down in making a gameplay mod with old timey weapons
was a joke on line limit referring to cacoward 2016 for comatose
light prism
you know what silent hill was missing
green herbs
resident evil got one thing right
green herbs go great with gaming
fresh arch
silent hill got a lot of things wrong
light prism
like 1) it wasn't silent, and 2) there were no hills
fresh arch
but just enough things right
light prism
at least in resident evil there was a resident evil
fresh arch
was originally biohazard
light prism
well there was one of those too
fresh arch
gonna make a folder here... Quiet Lake
light prism
its just formula, man. in doom, there's doom. in grand theft auto, there's grand theft auto. in final fantasy.. uh... hrm...
fresh arch
i dunno i dont see it that way
light prism
of course not
fresh arch
its more amazing what can actually be done with doom that hasnt yet
aside from theoretical
still very young community
fuck i need to be up to move bricks in 4 hours
fuck it mapping time
fresh arch
masterlevel right there
light prism
trim falcon
nice
unreal oyster
@light prism what are you doing for the rectangular selection? I assume something like an inverse perspective matrix to get world coords, then an infinite height AABB with corners as the two world coords to test if actors fall in the range of the selection?
Ooh wait I'm thinking if this was done with ZScript hmm
light prism
yeah that sounds about right
no it is the same method, but using gdcc
inverse perspective matrix, scan rectangular zone
unreal oyster
Cool stuff anyway
light prism
i imagine it would be cheaper under zscript though
however probably marginal for something like this
atm im at a standstill for two reasons, 1) find an effective method of encoding instructions to send to the server, and let the server do all the actual commands, 2) pathfinding
unreal oyster
Just curious, how are you iterating through the actors to do that in ACS?
light prism
im thinking in terms of pathfinding i might dumb down to a hex grid and use a*
they're tagged
in oldschool rts style, your units are limited by food and a hard cap, so its not too bad
unreal oyster
Ah, heh
light prism
plus you can't multiple select enemy units, so they can safely be ignored from the clients end
unreal oyster
Well I suppose you've gotta make do with what your tools allow
And yeah, that makes sense
light prism
movement isn't soooo bad, until you reach some weird geometry
like the end of the video
and you really want precision in movement for an rts, the random aspect of dooms method is too clumsy to allow proper formations and such
hex grid would make things nice and workable, could probably even just get away with a cube grid
unreal oyster
Yeah, even with norandomturn it can be funky
light prism
atm i do have some primitive formatino stuff, a group of marines will form in a triangle facing the vector of movement
until they bump into something, then they sprawl out rather than waiting to regroup
unreal oyster
About sending commands... You could do something stupid like emulate an opcode system
Like what CPUs use
Should be fairly lightweight
light prism
yeah, i need to think about at what level i am sending the commands too though
am i sending raw clicks and having the server understand those, or do I just send like 'move unit (tid) to (x) (y)'
and have it do the pathfinding on the server side
sending clicks with requestpuke is pretty reliable, i used a similar method when i started rebuilding wormsdoom
but that would mean the server would have to interpret everything from the base level
sending opcodes would be nice, but.. how
unreal oyster
Sorry I'm so late, but for sending opcodes, couldn't you just send 1-4 bytes of data as integers?
Where byte 1 is the opcode, and (optional) 2-4 are additional data
I assume you can send ints? Never done zand programming
So, for example 01 01 0F AE would mean "move 01 to 0F, AE"
Of course you'd need 2 bytes per coord for fixed point coords, but it's up to you about whether that precision actually matters
But only sending 4 bytes or so should keep the data size small
And manageable
light prism
yeah, you can send ints
there are just special cases that i need to consider
like ordering a group to do something
or where pathfinding fits into it
if im using tiles for pathfinding theres no need for fixed point values
and targets can be grabbed by their tids rather than position
ideally i'd like to be able to fit all of this into one function, which means i need to identify all possible combinations of what needs to be sent, and how to reconcile it on the other side
can only send three integers at a time
i suppose if its (action, coordx, coordy) and coordy is null or something, it can treat coordx as a tid for position
unkempt wadi
@light prism i went to bed immediately after sending that so i'll get back to you after my classes
toxic pier
To people experienced with SBARINFO's, would like some help in backporting Strife Uncut's HUD to GZ1.8.6 standards. Just want to be able to use it within D-Touch.
fresh arch
quick question, how do I make a middle line translucent glass? searching the wiki on this question atm
red peak
Find glass textures
light prism
in UDMF?
in udmf, lines have renderstyle and alpha values
use a reasonably flat shaded texture, or find a custom windowy glassy one, and just set it to renderstyle additive with a reasonably high alpha
fresh arch
nevermind i got it
just set a middle texture to the line and adjust transparancy
bah
I plan to accomplish this with layered transparent lines
as well as a few lines for garbage
fresh arch
what do you mean by make a texture out of patches?
light prism
er
thats how doom did textures
the TEXTURE1/2 lump defined texture names and built them out of smaller patch images
zdoom has the TEXTURES lump which lets you do the same in a nice text format
like uh
texture WINDWMSG, 64, 64 { patch GLASS, 0, 0 {} patch MESSAGE, 0, 0 { blend, etc } }
fresh arch
next question: can somebody explain how to edit MAPINFO to define fog for outdoor areas?
or just explain sector fog generally
because while I did find the sector tag for fog, I'm not sure how to define it
light prism
uh
once again
if youre in UDMF, every sector has its own fog (fade) level
mapinfo's parameter is "OutsideFog" though
if you insist on using that method
fresh arch
I'm still retarded, could you elaborate further in excruciating detail?
nevermind actually
i done figured it out
fresh arch
sector properties, however i found a nifty article on other ways to do it and scrapped doing so at present
sidenote, aftera while i got the effect I more or less wanted out of that window
article referred above:
simply using fade color simply does not produce a useful fog for my intended purpose, which is to limit actual visibility; rather fade just recolors the textures of things as you get more distant
also it looks like shit
royal wave
Setting the sector color can help iirc
light prism
uh
you have to use fade really subtly
never get far away from black
unless you want everything in the distance to be obscured by solid color
sector color can be less subtle but the more you saturate the less 'light' has effect
royal wave
should work on my project
light prism
you should
fresh arch
well today was productive
got a solid base for the size of streets, sidewalks and buildings
will finish up the exterior dimensions of a single block and then attach some portals and work out the inner dimensions of those buildings
That there's a fine start
red peak
Mm, not bad
fresh arch
for that building gonna do 2 floors; using portals will make for interesting automap opportunities that I will need to keep in mind
fresh arch
hey, if anyone who has browsed through many texture packs can give me a hand; i already have the blood and duke3d textures on hand, but im missing something I need. For my contemporary urban/suburban environments I need a kinda white stucco texture, but I just can't quite find one, any tips?
sand temple
light prism
i don't have any white stucco but I did make my own series of city textures based off duke3d designs
doom has stucco, are those not acceptable?
fresh arch
I'm currently pouring over the texture packs at realm667; could i see your duke3d based textures? maybe you got something there close enough to what i'm looking for
light prism
i dont really have anything remotely stucco-ey, hold on
fresh arch
anything vinyl sidey will work too
fresh arch
i'll pass on that for the moment, i'll keep looking. Currently going through chasm:the rift; will check counterstrike next
on the bright side i do have brick walls for days
As an alternative i'm looking for "wood panels painted white-ish"
but i may very well just use regular wood
fresh arch
okay, if anyone is online, i have a new question, as I resolved my prior issue
I have a skybox. My skybox ceiling is as tall as my highest building (by definition). I know i can make smaller buildings by creating a box around one and pulling the skybox down to the desired height. I also know that this prevents seeing a tall building behind that short building.
is there a way I could avoid this? I am aware there is a 3dfloor solution but i dont fully understand it
shadow bone
No way to avoid it, unfortunately
At least not with that method
3D floors would be the solution
Basically: Build just the walls of your building, then cap it with a 3D floor to make a "roof"
fresh arch
does the 3d floor definitely cut off even upper heights?
lemme make a screenshot of my current state.
Its not terrible. I can certainly live with it, but i am curious if i can avoid it
shadow bone
No, a 3D floor would not cut off things above
Your "walls" should actually be a raised floor
light prism
problem with 3d floor as roof is that it severely limits the amount of detailing you can do for interiors
as long as you place your buildings in such a way that there is no visible cutoff due to ceiling/sky height, its the smarter choice
and the third option is to use stacked portals, but that gets pretty messy too sometimes heh
fresh arch
tell me more about the limits on interior detailing
light prism
they're imposed by your system specs
the more lines that cross a 3d floor, the more midtextures its drawing
which just causes general fps drop in extreme situations
fresh arch
ah i see, yeah thats not ideal
I'm currently reading about stacked portals
anything i should know on the limitations there?
light prism
they're really annoying
if you're not inside a sector that can view a stacked portal, but can see that sector, you get visual glitches
royal wave
you could just use portals and fake it
light prism
scroll down kev 😛
fresh arch
i'm not doing any interiors for any buildings, all the interiors are on the other side of portals
but the exteriors themselves are non-trivially detailed, and the exterior planned is vast, so I would like to avoid overly cpu intensive solutions to what is admittadly an irrelevant problem
light prism
stacked portals are probably the best solution
the basic idea is that you'd duplicate your whole area, move it up to the desired division/ceiling height, and then craft your roofings
so the floor height of the new top area is the ceiling height of the original area
and contains roof detailing or skycrapers or whatever, up to an F_SKY ceiling
the only issue with stacked portals is they are visual only, so you wouldnt be able to say, have a jetpack that lets you fly up to the top of a skyscraper
there are interactive floor/ceiling portals but they are a whole nother bag of poop
royal wave
I remember being the guy to suggest portals to be added and graf being all "no"
royal wave
I mean in regards to portals
haughty flower
Portals..?
royal wave
and now they're one of the best things to happen
haughty flower
Dayum, what a turnaround.
royal wave
haughty flower
I bet they aren't.
light prism
and you get occasional glitches where you can see beyond portal lines
actually i think you can do that on any portal line if you stop directly on it
royal wave
Static portals support AI
but they're buggy as fuck
because they're literally telling the engine the room is right there
light prism
interactive portals technically allow ai, its just that the ai chases your absolute position as opposed to your translated one
light prism
what i mean is it doesn't adjust to account for the portal
if you and an imp were standing face to face with a portal line leading 3600px away between you, the imp would turn away from you and shoot over that distance, rather than claw you in the face
similarly if there are portal areas which are disconnected from eachother, the imp would start doing the random wall shuffle
true galleon
i'm pretty sure i'm not the first person to do it, but i put the revenant sprites in a pk3 and applied them to a skindef to make the revenant into a skin
fresh arch
Well it took pretty much an entire day but its at a quality I can live with for now
light prism
looking good
fresh arch
next up i got a oil change/garage
red peak
Where'd you get those textures?
haughty flower
@shadow bone how's Tranquility doing?
shadow bone
Meh. I haven't touched it for a while because of whole refactoring bullshit that needs to happen. Again.
I also don't really have a clear vision for it.
Because Hideous Destructor does most of what I want already and it seems pointless to just make my own clone of it
fresh arch
@red peak im currently using only blood 1 and duke 3d textures, with an occasional doom2
vestal basin
that portal demo video just melted my fuckin brain
light prism
yeah that demo wad is a bit over the top heh
light prism
idgi
fresh arch
Soma engine
shadow bone
Huh. That's kinda nifty
fresh arch
not sure how its done, will try to pull up a forum thread, i remember a discussion about emulating a raytracer entirely in-engine but lost track of development
here it be\
fresh arch
going through redneck rampage right now, although oversized and needing scaling, these textures are a real treasure trove of contemporary
royal wave
I want to make a Doom mutator that makes it feel kick ass
"Kick Ass Doom"
and make it compete with brutal
lavish hollow
Brutal Doom
royal wave
no
red peak
It already does.
lavish hollow
Rofl
royal wave
Brutal isn't balanced
red peak
The balance is actually okay.
Nothing's straight up overpowered, except maybe the minigun for early levels.
royal wave
Nah, BD encourages more duck and cover game play
lavish hollow
Uhhhh, what??
royal wave
I want to invoke 2016 Doom movement without it being 2016 doom
lavish hollow
How the hell do you play lol, there's no ducking and covering lmao
red peak
First you need to eliminate all hitscanners.
"I took cover from a chaingunner, 0/10 modern military shooter"
lavish hollow
BD has no hitscanners, so you can basically run around all damage
royal wave
Enemies can still pot shot you across the map
red peak
Just like in vanilla.
royal wave
and it's focus on "realistic" guns, that makes it difficult to handle a situation at any distance
red peak
"Realistic" lmao
lavish hollow
That's kinda... It
red peak
It's nowhere near "Hideous Destructor" realistic
royal wave
No I mean it, mark has made videos on how a shotgun has to be lethal up to 30 feet
like a real shotgun
lavish hollow
Mark isn't a smart guy, that's irrelevant to the mod
royal wave
which is why I put it in quotes because it's a pretty minute detail to worry about
red peak
That's not the emphasis, though.
lavish hollow
Saying that he made a shotgun slightly realistic =/= he tried to make a realistic mod
royal wave
that's not what I said either
red peak
Let's see an irl shotgun literally blow a hole clean through someone's chest.
red peak
You're implying it's trying to be realistic and failing.
lavish hollow
That's literally what I said
royal wave
My point is that it's a downside to the modification
red peak
Well, it's not trying!
lavish hollow
It really isn't lol
royal wave
To me it is. You are aware that in vanilla, the hit scan enemies actually deal less damage than you?
red peak
Yes, why?
lavish hollow
Duh
royal wave
Not fun taking a stray bullet and dying
lavish hollow
Lemme guess, it's "unbalanced" because they do more damage
royal wave
there's a lot more than that
lavish hollow
Despite now they're projectile based and the damage is easily dodgeable
royal wave
just bullets are my biggest aggravator
red peak
If it's far away enough, you can literally step out of the bullet's way.
royal wave
Okay so nevermind, I'm not allowed to dislike a feature okay
lavish hollow
And don't forget, the enemies are projectile based, and the player is hitscan
red peak
Any other gripes?
royal wave
Not if I'm just going to be indirectly implied to be a bitch about it, no
unreal oyster
projectile bullets kinda ruin the entire point of hitscanners if you can just dodge them, lol
hitscanners are meant to be oppressive
and something you need to prioritise
red peak
They're not easily dodgeable like, say, imp fireballs.
royal wave
then what's the point of making them projectile based
red peak
Making them feel a little less cheap, I guess?
unreal oyster
hitscanners aren't cheap on their own
royal wave
They still feel pretty damn cheap if they deal the same lethal potential as the player
unreal oyster
they're cheap when used in badly made maps
otherwise hitscanners can be an incredibly useful tool to shake up a map's flow
red peak
The same lethal potential? They do about the same damage.
royal wave
Remember when you agreed vanilla does less damage?
red peak
Maybe in previous versions where they were apparently quite OP, but not now.
unreal oyster
i mean they really shouldn't considering a bullet's damage is based on its velocity
red peak
As vanilla.
royal wave
That means literally any bullet enemies can down you
iirc zombiemen have 200 health
the base player sits at 100, 200 if you happen to get a sphere
red peak
I checked with a health bar mod, and no, they have 50.
royal wave
I forget numbers
red peak
It's 50 health in Brutal.
royal wave
Point is
Vanilla balances the odds to be in favor of the player without letting the player be OP
brutal takes that away from me
I don't feel like as much of a powerhouse
also it's gaming 101. Doesn't matter how many options you give the player, they always default to the easiest solution
so tackling these situations will always devolve into the player using the same gun
red peak
The pump shotgun?
red peak
Well, depends on the game.
royal wave
but imo less so since they avoid for the most part any gun being any sort of upgrade or cost to the player
red peak
The SSG takes the SG's place as staple weapon in Doom 2.
royal wave
rocket launcher is slightly less effective since it has a larger blast radius and higher damage potential, meaning you need more open room for it
plasma rifle has a burn radius, defeating it's purpose as a high damaging close combat rifle
bfg is pretty much the plasma rifle and rocket launcher having a baby
Chaingun has windup, no one likes windup
red peak
The BFG does kind of suck.
The minigun's windup is almost unnoticeable against most enemies.
royal wave
it's still a second of being vulnerable
red peak
It's not that long. More like a third of a second.
royal wave
that just leaves the remaining bullet based guns
and since the game favors shotgun ammunition more than rifle ammunition, player will use the shotguns more
lavish hollow
I honestly forgot there was wind up for the minigun, it's so short
royal wave
it is pretty short, but any moment of vulnerability is bad
even in vanilla, people like to hide around a corner with the shotgun
red peak
This conversation has gotten quite off topic.
royal wave
it's in the appropriate room
lavish hollow
I thought you said BD was about duck and cover, wut
royal wave
it emphasizes it more when enemies can one shot you
defeats Doom's difficulty curve of throwing more shit at you
red peak
One-shot? Are you fighting nothing but Cyberdemons?
lavish hollow
What difficulty are you playing on??
red peak
Realism, lol
royal wave
The harder ones because I'm not a pussy lol
red peak
Hence his emphasis on "realistic" guns.
royal wave
but one shot enemies are never fun
lavish hollow
Then don't play on the harder difficulties, lol
red peak
Well, play Ultra-Violence like a normal person.
royal wave
then what's the point of having a higher difficulty
I'm not the only person to make this observation, it's a common gripe
red peak
For those looking for a tougher challenge.
You apparently don't like it.
So stop playing it.
royal wave
and that's bad because?
lavish hollow
If you don't like taking too much damage, play on a lower difficulty
If you're good enough at the game where you won't take that much damage, play on the higher difficulties
red peak
That's like me playing vanilla for the first time and going straight to Nightmare.
lavish hollow
^
royal wave
implying I don't know how to play a FPS
plenty of people do that
and you can say a game has flaws in it;s difficulty
lavish hollow
I never said you couldn't say that
royal wave
"git gud" isn't an excuse when it's a bunch of random shit strewn across it
"git gud" is what you tell people who play dark souls and complain
red peak
Well, you are talking about a hard difficulty being hard.
royal wave
because that at least keeps it consistent across the entire game
lavish hollow
Well tbh "git gud" is a great excuse rn lol
royal wave
it's not when it's a glaring flaw that can be fixed
example: Let's make the chaingunners shoot rockets
discuss, fair or unfair?
lavish hollow
Are we taking in vanilla maps?
royal wave
sure
lavish hollow
That's not fair
lavish hollow
Because rockets do a lot of damage and chaingunners fire them rapidly
royal wave
they have the vulnerability of killing themselves
lavish hollow
This is literally nothing like BD tho lol
lavish hollow
This would make a chaingunner worse than a cyberdemon
unreal oyster
kdizd has rocket zombies (not chain-rocketers) and they actually end up killing themselves before they do damage to you most of the time lol
royal wave
^
unreal oyster
obviously partially due to kdizd's clusterfuck-y level design though
royal wave
So is it over powered, or are you just not good enough?
unreal oyster
where there are at least 10 things for a rocket to get caught on in any given room
red peak
Still, it's horribly cheap if anything like a rocket launcher zombie gets the jump on you.
royal wave
and the same thing with any other enemy
it feels cheap
it takes away the justification that it was my fault i died
red peak
BD chaingunners give you a half second warning before they fire, and take a while to kill you.
lavish hollow
^
royal wave
and are all chaingunners given to you within close distance?
or any other enemy for that matter
lavish hollow
Chaingunners in BD are actually way less annoying to me than they are in vanilla
royal wave
that still doesn't change my point that you can still die from a cheap kill
red peak
Just like in vanilla!
lavish hollow
I can take like 20 bullets in BD, wut
red peak
Wtf is a 1D4
royal wave
In Doom, damage is calculated by it's base value, times a random number between 1 - 3
red peak
Oh.
royal wave
#D# describes a random value that's the same as a dice roll
royal wave
first number describes the number of rolls, second number describes the highest number it can achieve
red peak
Never head the damage randomization be referred to that way.
lavish hollow
Same here
unreal oyster
well then you clearly haven't looked hard enough because i've seen xdy to refer to damage a ton in the doom community
royal wave
yeah it's pretty common knowledge in the modding scene
red peak
This is literally the first time I've heard it. Everyone I've seen just says "damage randomization" or "RNG".
unreal oyster
that doesn't really describe it well enough
royal wave
well fun fact, we know what the RNG numbers are
So it's useful knowledge to have when scaling the diffuculty of an enemy
setting a base damage of 5 has the potential of an output of 25 max
The BGF has the potential to oneshot a cyberdemon if the odds are in your favor
(this includes the tracers mind you)
lavish hollow
The Big Gun Fucking
royal wave
yes Big gun... fucking
red peak
It's better to have a solid damage value IMO, but TIL.
lavish hollow
My favorite PonWea
royal wave
I think there's a flag that can be set to disable it
lavish hollow
And I believe you can have a solid damage value with some simple code @red peak
royal wave
but having the RNG added definitely shakes up the flow of the game
red peak
Then you get 80 damage Revenant missiles.
royal wave
yup
POSS F 2 BRIGHT A_CustomMissile("ZombieManTracer", 32, 0, random(-8, 8), 1, random(-3, 3))
wait wrong line, hang on
I forget my decorate sometimes :P
red peak
lol
royal wave
give me a sec, I hate digging through this mans code
unreal oyster
[7:38 PM] kevansevans: The BGF has the potential to oneshot a cyberdemon if the odds are in your favor i'm not entirely sure that's possible in vanilla due to the nature of the predetermined RNG table
royal wave
It's possible
you have to be like right up in its face and pray that each tracer does it's max damage
anwyays
damage (random(6,9))
that's the base damage for a bullet
and it's a 1D5 right?
that's a max potential of 45 damage
unreal oyster
you absolutely cannot have each tracer do max damage in vanilla
it's theoretically possible in zdoom
red peak
Damage of a zombieman?
unreal oyster
but literally impossible in vanilla
because RNG isn't done with a seed, it's literally just done by using an array of numbers
royal wave
{
damage (random(6,9))
}
every time P_Random() is called, the index increases by 1 (wrapping around to 0 if necessary)
the BFG's randomness is a bit weird
it uses 40 tracers
and for each tracer
it runs a for loop which adds (P_Random()&7) + 1 to the total damage count
when the for loop ends, it uses the accumulated damage as the tracer's damage
meaning that, disregarding the RNG table, the max you could do, if every tracer hit, is 4800 damage
but the RNG calculations become a bit fucky because of that bitwise AND
unreal oyster
yeah i know, point is, you'll never achieve 4800 damage with a BFG
that's entirely theoretical
unreal oyster
theoretically possible in zdoom, sure, but not in vanilla
and it would really never happen in zdoom either
because it requires an 800 roll for the ball damage and then 600 random numbers that all end in 0b111
royal wave
Does the word "rare" mean something different in the UK?
unreal oyster
"rare" doesn't really cover it
it's more like
"will literally never happen in the lifetime of the universe"
royal wave
Well when it comes to odds, there's no such thing as it happening within a certain time frame
it might have already happened to someone
just because the odds are stupidly astronomical, that doesn't mean the time it can happen also is astronomical
if I was willing, I'd dig through the source and get the math myself
unreal oyster
zdoom uses a 1d8 15 times to work out BFG damage
40 tracers
40 * 15 = 600
so it's a (1/8)^600 chance
for the highest number
i.e. all 8s
which is such a small number that most computers would just say it's basically 0
royal wave
basically doesn't mean it is
lavish hollow
I think most computers would still say the number, not just zero lol
royal wave
7.1448348576730208360402604523025e+541
8^600
and (1/8)^600 = 1.3996124751939849687994777319774e-542
wait
gut you did math wrong I think
unreal oyster
[8:05 PM] El Jefe: I think most computers would still say the number, not just zero lol no they wouldn't, because floating point doesn't go that low
did i? feel free to correct me
it's been a while since i've done probabilities
royal wave
Yeah I'm pretty sure probabilities aren't calculated that way, let me google
unreal oyster
that doesn't sound right either, if it were like that it'd be a 1/12 chance to roll a 2 with 2d6
i know for a fact that that chance is 1/36
royal wave
well it's a 1D8, right?
That's a 1/8th chance it hits an 8
then does that 15 times, that's a 1/(8 * 15) chance
then 40 tracers
1/(8 * 15 * 40)
unreal oyster
it's definitely exponential
6*6 rows
or 6^2
thus making the chance 1/36 for a 2 or a 12
if you were to visualise 3d6, you'd have a cube
or 6^3
royal wave
I'm confident it's not exponetial
unreal oyster
there's 3d6
shown as split layers of a cube
it's very much exponential
you multiply probabilities to determine the chance of them happening together
it's easiest to think about it this way
royal wave
My friend who's good at math isn't helpful either
she plays too much D&D
"what's the probability of the hit?"
unreal oyster
for every 1/8 chance, there are then 8 more 1/8 chances for every first chance
so 8*8 = 64
then, for every 1/64 chance, there are 8 more 1/8 chances
so 8*64 = 512
etc.
royal wave
so 1/(8^(8 * 15 * 40))
unreal oyster
no need for the 8 in the exponential
if you needed an 8 in the exponential it would make 2d8 into 8^-16 which is 3.5527137e-15
quite a bit smaller than 1/64, the actual chance for 1d8 heh
found a diagram of that thing
that's for 3d6 but you get the point
but back to the actual point of this entire thing - 8^-600 is fucking small 😄
royal wave
600D8
Also I tried this website http://anydice.com/program/d1b5
it can't even handle it
unreal oyster
heh
i assume it's checking each pair individually and creating a curve out of that
even on a GPU, that would take longer than the timeout time of 5 seconds
fresh arch
im confused
royal wave
Discussing the likelyhood of a BFG to oneshot a cyberdemon
unreal oyster
yeah, though i've been omitting the BFG ball for simplicity so you'd add on average 400 or so
bfg ball is only one RNG call though so it doesn't have this wacky normal dist
just a simple 1/8 roll
fresh arch
the way the doom2 bfg works is wonky
unreal oyster
3200 on tracers and 800 on the ball is the most likely "one-shot" scenario, i guess
fresh arch
better to just make it a splash damage weapon and call it a day
royal wave
so you need to roll at least a 4000 with the tracers to one shot, assuming the BFG ball hits max, which is 800
unreal oyster
nah, 3200 with the tracers, i think you got the cybie health and tracer max confused heh
fresh arch
i dont even get what the bfg is supposed to be and why it doesnt damage the player up close. Is it some kinda disruptive portal gun?
unreal oyster
yeah that chance is basically (almost 0 * 1/8)
royal wave
that's a 0.6 percent chance of getting a number
unreal oyster
almost 0 * 1/8 is basically an even smaller almost 0, lol
fresh arch
0 * 1/8 is 0
royal wave
well combined with the BFG ball yes
unreal oyster
wish i could be more exact but that website doesn't give precise enough values for 3200
royal wave
0.08 percent chance of one shotting the Cyberdemon
fresh arch
you cant multiply 0 by a fraction to get a non-zero sum that makes no sense
unreal oyster
xdy approaches the gaussian distribution as x tends to infinity
haughty flower
what's going on here
royal wave
MATH