Use a camera.
#classic-doom-maps-mods
haughty flower
inner zealot
What do you guys think of this angle for Zelda Doom?
I discovered 3D floors so I was able to raise the entire "roof" of the map, which opens up things.
Maybe be able to switch from first person to the classic overhead view
lavish hollow
Eh
You can tell the walls are 3D and that kinda bugs me
I would prefer a first person view and I think it'd make more sense
inner zealot
I think it'd be less bad in motion
Or worse
I'm not a huge fan of the sprite billboard being on any settings other than default
lavish hollow
I still think you should stick with first person
royal wave
royal wave
ty
remote spade
I like the red lighting.
proper shuttle
@inner zealot you might want to fix the tilted camera
gotta make it faithful to the source material
prisma saddle
I wonder how hard it'd be to fake GI in GZDooM
lavish hollow
GI?
prisma saddle
Global illumination, or bounce lighting.
lavish hollow
Oh
unreal oyster
@prisma saddle elaborate?
prisma saddle
The bouncing of light around a scene,
unreal oyster
i know that there's some work being done on QZDoom to allow models to be properly lit be dynlights
so parts of the model closer to the light source will light up more
glacial skiff
It's possible to build GI for a map using the existing nodes structures and an extra lump, in theory
Not that any port currently uses such a thing, but I can imagine you can use NODES to subdivide hypothetical giareas, allowing the nodebuilder to clip lights in 2D first, then cast bounces to surfaces within that node, or maybe an even faster solution would involve the BLOCKMAP
The process looks like this in my head:
- Associate blocks with nodes
- Consider node lines "hints" to the GI builder to either block or attenuate GI
- Get the blocks in the current node
- Bounce lights with the most intensity within the block the light exists in
- Store GI data in some RLE format in the new lump, possibly keeping the same seg order as SEGS followed immediately by a list of floor/ceiling GI data for each sector 0->?
(Or maybe per-subsector would be better, idk)
inner zealot
I made a poopy stand-in
He doesn't really do anything
He doesn't really need to, though.
Also, I got bored
inner zealot
I was just gonna have the sword on the ground and have the message pop up above him
lavish hollow
Nvm, that's way better lol
inner zealot
I can take screenshots at these angles now and I like it
This time in FreeDoom because... I like FreeDoom.
3D floors are good for not floor things, too.
I used them so I could use the water edge texture here
warped rampart
I do like Freedoom's gun sprites
inner zealot
The updated versions of the monsters don't look too bad, either
Hey, @warped rampart
warped rampart
Hi
inner zealot
Question
warped rampart
Answer
inner zealot
Should I continue to focus on expanding the Overworld map until it's finished, or should I go ahead and shift focus to other things. Items, enemies, etc. to populate what's already here?
warped rampart
What do you think is best?
inner zealot
I know I can continue on with the map easily, mapping ain't hard. Especially when you're straight up copying something like I am.
warped rampart
I say it's entirely up to you
inner zealot
I feel like it may be a bit more engaging to work out the enemies and stuff
Either way, it's still progress.
I just wanted some input
What would you rather see, a new enemy or a new map?
Hm. An enemy is kinda useless without a world to inhabit. And a world without inhabitants is boring.
warped rampart
For now, I'd like to see a few enemies
inner zealot
That's just the push I needed, thanks.
lavish hollow
I would've said the same thing, enemies now
remote spade
It's dangerous to go alone! Take a Super Shotgun.
hallow wraith
Making a list of level ideas on paper is getting messy so im gonna switch to using a txt doc and Paint.net
My hands got too gray from all the pencil
severe seal
@hallow wraith Do you have a few contenders to start building?
@hallow wraith Also I hope you're going to be drawing a level on paper before you start building rather than just writing down an idea in words
hallow wraith
Im drawing it
severe seal
Good π
dusky steppe
what are the best mods for the game ?
glacial skiff
furry.wad is the best mod :^)
pearl sundial
^
remote spade
b4nm.wad = 11/10
remote spade
A ass rape adventure (?)
warped rampart
Tis but a meme, my good sir
vocal crypt
why do you throw away your avatar so recklessly, Pyrime?
warped rampart
Because logo
warped rampart
Nope
vocal crypt
fah\
warped rampart
Someone explain how this gives the user the power of flight
vocal crypt
is that sarcasm or are you being legit?
warped rampart
I'm being serious
vocal crypt
ok, misworded I think
warped rampart
It says on the wiki that this gives the user the power of flight
vocal crypt
Are you asking us to help you?
warped rampart
vocal crypt
ok.
In this context, the word "powerup" refers to the power itself, not to the PowerupGiver item that you pick up in order to get the power. For example in Doom, the radiation suit is a powerup giver and is not itself a powerup; instead it gives a power, in this case, protection from radiation, whimsically named the "iron feet" powerup by the programmers who made the game.
In the same way, the word "powerup" has traditionally been used for all kinds of artifacts in the game, but some of them are not actually true powerups nor powerup givers; for example in Doom, the soulsphere is actually a very powerful form of the health bonus item and the gained health is just normal health; however, the iron feet power that the radiation suit gives is a true powerup, because the effect lasts over a period of time and stays with the player until it is exhausted.
If a negative duration is given to a powerup subclass, it will be the amount of seconds the power stays active. If a powerup has the INVENTORY.HUBPOWER flag, it stays active when moving between levels within a hub. If a powerup has an Inventory.Icon property, this icon is displayed on the HUD while the power is active. (All standard HUDs will place it in the upper-right corner.)```not exactly telling yas but
I would assume it basically like opening the console and typing fly, but with a power up
warped rampart
I tested that, and Iβm thinking that:
A) Iβm going to need to nerf the time, a minute is honestly a little long
B)Iβll also need to add a spawn state to it
warped rampart
Will I need to add in any flags to make the powerup give you the ability to fly, though? The only thing I'm seeing that signiifies this is the PowerFlight actor name.
hallow wraith
How do I place Monsters and Monster Closets/Traps in a way so that the player doesn't avoid/or go around them too easy?
unreal oyster
i'd say don't worry too much about that, everyone has their own playstyle and i feel that it's fine to let them not fight if they don't want to
what i'd say is create the layout in such a way that the player has to reenter areas that were populated earlier
that way if the player doesn't fight the monsters, they'll have to come back to a monster filled area
hallow wraith
Im drawing the plan for my level on paper but im not too sure I like the room shapes
Some shapes look like they would be too odd and some look too bland
And the room shapes look like they wouldn't be the most playable or interesting
Im might be a little picky or OCDish on what i think looks or plays right
shadow bone
"shapes" in general are just that: Shapes. They're probably gonna look boring until you detail them and whatnot.
Consider breaking them up, maybe. Big rooms by themselves are rarely interesting. Add columns, nooks, raised/lowered sections, etc. Places for cover, lanes for the player to move along, killzones, etc
modest holly
was there a very recent update to the game, like past 24 hours?
a small glitch in my snapmap keeps happening today and wasnt happening yesterday. i havent changed my map at all; confused now
red peak
How the fug do I make elevators that move up after the player gets them to come down
Doom in Hexen btw
severe seal
@hallow wraith Start with general flow - how many rooms are there and how do they connect to each other? If they're all just squares that's fine for a first pass. It's very easy to go back and make them more complex later. You're trying to learn a process that works for you, not do everything right on the first pass.
@red peak I'm only familiar with Doom 2 linedefs but are you using Lift or Floor?
red peak
Lift.
red peak
It's just Lower to Nearest Floor
No Lower Raise at all
Anywhere in the Life category
*Lift
unreal oyster
in GZDB Hexen/UDMF it's "Platform Lower Wait Raise"
@red peak
btw you should be using UDMF π
unreal oyster
there is - UDMF-Convert https://github.com/CO2/UDMF-Convert
you can also press F2 in GZDB to change the format but i'm not sure how reliable that is
best to make a backup either way though
red peak
TBH I only used Hexen because I was using Chubzdoomer's tutorialsπ
unreal oyster
hm, i thought he did UDMF stuff too?
hallow wraith
@severe seal Is there a optimal process or order you do things in when making maps?
severe seal
@hallow wraith Optimal is different for everyone... and I haven't done enough yet to know. I have a very visual creative imagination though, so I draw out a complex floor plan with pretty clear ideas for each room. I ended up changing some of the rooms a lot during implementation because of scale and gameplay issues, though.
@hallow wraith But the whole point of what I told you the other day is that what works best is going to be different for everyone. I think you're slowing yourself down by being too critical at every step.
@hallow wraith The general process used for AAA games, because of the high cost of each step, is to plan on paper, then do very very rudimentary implementation of the level with placeholder textures and simple geo, then playtest the shit out of it and keep tweaking it until it's fun, and THEN do an art pass. During the art pass, playtesting continues to make sure none of the art pass changes broke gameplay. Then do a final polish pass.
red peak
I just make up ideas as I go.
severe seal
That's another way to do it
Some people just aren't comfortable doing that though, so structure is necessary to prevent things from getting frustrating
hallow wraith
Im trying to find the process that works best for me
half adder
Been working on the monster beastiary for my mod, was curious if this kind of looked good
hopefully I can get this in by the next update in a few days
lavish hollow
I literally just downloaded your mod earlier today because I finally got Wi-Fi π
red peak
Which mod is that?
lavish hollow
Magitek Doom
half adder
neat, hope you enjoy it (:
I'm hoping to clear up a lot of things by putting more info in-game
I kind of want this to be a bit more of a "know how to use all your tools in the right situations" kind of mod so having a lot of information available to view if you want is probably a good idea
lavish hollow
I think I have one suggestion: could you separate the weapons and the monsters into two separate files, like insanity's requiem, that way people can play with whatever monsters they want, as well as make the downloads less punishing to those with slow internet?
half adder
I kind of can't seperate them because of how Magitek Doom works. You basically need monsters made for the mod otherwise all the effects like freezing enemies or burning them, + all the custom deaths and pain states just don't work on vanilla monsters
the monsters are basically designed around the mod
lavish hollow
Ah, that's ok then
half adder
yeah, theres too much custom stuff in the monsters sadly, especially with the headshot hitboxes and such
sorry that it was a little more of an inconvenience
haughty flower
i need some help
gonna post my problem
i made a fire code, that does a 4 round burst, with random spread
but if you tap the fire button once it's just accurate as fuck
when you hold the fire button the spread actually kicks in
the recoil*
whatever
so when i click once it just fires 4 too accurate shots, but otherwise it doesn't
when i put A_Refire down only the next burst gets the spread applied
but the first burst doesn't?
adjusted the code, same thing though
red peak
Swimmable water has kind of lost it's magic since I learned how to make it.
Also jesus christ I'm sick of hearing D_RUNNIN
royal wave
@haughty flower Set the amount of bullets fired from 1 to -1
Doom interprets the first bullet fire to always be 100 percent accurate
setting it to -1 by passes that
haughty flower
oh
severe seal
that's some weird api design
royal wave
it's to maintain vanilla behavior
gzdoom right out of the box functions as doom is "meant to be"
unreal oyster
not really, since it has texture filtering on by default π
but yeah, for the most part that's true, there are a few oddities though
i think the zdoom fist has higher range
shadow bone
I think Graf set the texture filtering by default so people wouldn't fire it up and immediately say "this looks just like ZDoom WTF I'll go back to that"
Wanted to visually set it apart
royal wave
Kinda why I put it in quotes
unreal oyster
yeah but it means people keep it on D:
royal wave
then they can do that
hallow wraith
I know why I haven't made much progress with my wad.... I don't had enough stamina or focus to do things longer than an hour before switching tasks or getting distracted so I jump between tasks doing random things
carmine badge
i usually listen to some songs and browse facebook/watch youtube videos while i map
lavish hollow
Don't do that
lavish hollow
Because I said so
carmine badge
especially when you're uninspired
wow you said so
alright
i will follow your advice
haughty flower
heh i saw that
carmine badge
shut the
UP
nothing afterwards ever happened
now
what was i about to say
hm
no fuckin idea lol
hallow wraith
I have trouble focusing on one thing
lavish hollow
Probably add
hallow wraith
I do have that
lavish hollow
Same
severe seal
@hallow wraith maybe just set a timer for 45 minutes at a time and force yourself to pay attention for that time, then when the timer goes off, go run around the house for 15 minutes singing or some other random thing that takes physical energy...
inner zealot
Sometimes, if you just want to get it done, you do have to force yourself. But don't force yourself to do anything you don't genuinely want to do.
severe seal
I don't have ADD so I dont really know what it's like, but I assume "it's hard to concentrate" means "it's REALLY REALLY hard to concentrate"
severe seal
After some good feedback and more playtesting, I'm calling my map 99.99% done... and renaming it "Fork And Knife In The Road" π
Will look into how to do a real release tomorrow
@unreal oyster thanks for the feedback!
@unreal oyster I implemented most of the feedback you gave... added some additional windows so you can see the effects of switches, added some visual linkage between the switches and lower the exit barriers, fixed all the little naggy problems, made the fake wall secret more obvious, and probably more stuff I forgot.
fresh arch
Hi all. I'm now working on a map. Should I shitpost stream of thoughts regarding my new project here or in another place?
hallow wraith
Tell us
fresh arch
So I spent a bunch of time on a map about a year ago that was a small spaceship docked to a bigger spaceship along an umbillical corridor. I put a bunch of work into it and then I discovered two things 1) realtime cameras attached to linedefs that allow me to make fake flying of spaceships and 2) I played that wad where you start and end each level in an elevator
Unfortunately by then I had already done a bunch of work and I scrapped the project rather than try to retrofit it to do both those things
So now I want to make my spaceship interior; save it as a standalone. Make my spaceship exterior, save it as a standalone. And then put together some maps where you start and end on said spaceship
and thats what Imma gonna do
lavish hollow
Groovy
hallow wraith
Im looking at DnD maps for room shape and layout ideas
fresh arch
purty
red peak
Alright. Well I played it.
Simple architecture, but still looks decent.
Ammo and health is quite strict, had to use infighting to clear out the 2 cacos and baron at the end.
No armor anywhere, meaning the 2 chaingunners and revenant are quite dangerous.
Found 1 secret (backpack and soulsphere)
All in all, looks good, plays okay if a little bit on the resource-starved side.
fresh arch
tomb oasis
fresh arch
by the way, I am trying to find the right function in doombuilder to make a door that lowers to the floor, delays, then raises ie a lift; anyone have any ideas?
fresh arch
nevermind, I found it it, its line function 602
function 62 defaults to lowering by 8, 602 allows you to define how low
I keot looking for the elevator function and then learned that moved both ceiling and floor
fresh arch
err function 206
umbral sail
intresting map, TootsyBowl
hallow wraith
I was suppose to make a map in one week this week but its already halfway through the week and i havent gotten anything done
umbral sail
I only work on maps when I really feel like it, sometimes I just leave them for more than a week and then Im working on it again for a while
severe seal
@hallow wraith just do something
red peak
I'm a little stuck. I made a map with a pool, and plan to make a cover open, revealing a key. How can I make that happen?
shadow bone
Well, you can't really do horizontally-moving sectors like that. I'd say a 3D model would be your best bet, and have it change its scale in one direction to shrink appropriately
fresh arch
heres what I do. I often have a big picture idea of what I want. So I make a box and its all startan.
Then I know I need to have a certain machine or thing in that room. So I make that. and its still all startan.
Then I know I need another room where that thing activates another thing so I make a door to that new room and I make a thing there
So I start thinking about how the hell am I gonna make this room look good, ive got this machine and it has textures, but everything else is startan
so piece by piece I think about the things that need to go into the various rooms ive now made, and I just focus on each one machine or thing
And then at the end i think about whats left and I think about what textures need to replace the startan walls
And usually by the time I get to that I think about what kind of crazy detailing can I put on these walls and it goes from there
severe seal
startan all the way down
red peak
Here, have the first maps I ever made
I already posted this on the Brutal Doom discord, so hopefully it won't piss off El Jefe too much
severe seal
@red peak did you just make them or is this a nostalgia thing? π
red peak
Results of messing with Doom Builder
severe seal
Just now though?
red peak
Beginning of the month.
red peak
Why not.
severe seal
Do they require any mods?
red peak
Just ZDoom.
severe seal
cool I may check out later π
carmine badge
i've recreated 2fort in doom https://www.mediafire.com/file/7wa5ec6oozrtl6y/2fort.wad
basically the map is sort of like a 'template' map as in it doesn't have any details, weapons, ammo, health etc. the forts are startan textured and flats use either flat22 or f_sky1 textures. the only detailed object in the map is the bridge.
the reason i've released it without anything in particular is because other modders/mappers might want to try out something with the map - maybe modify it into ctf, deathmatch or whatever other gamemode is out there, give it a different look, etc. so, if anyone out there could make this map an actually playable map (whether ctf, dm or whatever) can freely use this template map with no restrictions from me. credit would be nice if possible.
sand temple
Which 2Fort? TFC?
red peak
Does it have the sniper balcony?
sand temple
Nice
carmine badge
i've used 3d slopes too so it's pretty authentic to me
the only thing i've removed from 2fort is the water tunnel feature
i left it to you guys, you could make something out of it
sand temple
Yeah, I'll check it out later!
I'm a TFC addict so I'm curious to see how this compares
carmine badge
i love tfc too
hallow wraith
Im having trouble with encounters.... i find that i have to keep making the room shaped differant and smaller to make them work because there is too much open space
lavish hollow
Open spaces can work if you do them right
hallow wraith
I find that most encounters and gameplay stuff require very specfic room shapes and sizes to work
severe seal
@hallow wraith when you say it is or isn't working, what's your definition of that?
hallow wraith
Its not challenging enough
severe seal
ah
yeah, that'll happen
there are ways to make it more challenging besides making the room smaller
hallow wraith
I think for levels to work there has be a specific shape, size and flow to everthing
severe seal
true
royal wave
yeah the AI of the enemies do not work in large rooms
since they're programmed to take any shot if the player is visible
you can easily modify the enemies though
severe seal
you can make encounters harder in many ways though... you can put enemies on platforms around the arena so the player has to find cover, you can separate areas with height differences so there are clusters of monsters, you can cluster monsters that can't do friendly damage to each other, etc.
all of the enemies new to Doom 2 besides the Pain Elemental are good for forcing the player to move around in large areas
hallow wraith
Im still trying to understand what makes a good level.... im trying to analyze better
severe seal
Can you post a screenshot of what you've got so far?
Also - how much time do you spend between building and playtesting? ie what's your iteration cycle time?
hallow wraith
I haven't made the full level.... im just making parts of it to see if they would work before i make it because i don't have good order
severe seal
That's fine, just post something so we can look at it π
hallow wraith
I will... let me make it more presentable
severe seal
severe seal
@hallow wraith the point is to get feedback, don't worry about whether or not it's "presentable" π
severe seal
@red peak Some good stuff in those levels... some fun visual stuff going on there
@red peak Not sure about how fun the big winding open cavern is where the player only has berserk and a pistol... I kinda of just ran around in a panic before I found my way back to the level start and just let monsters come down the hall one by one so I could pick them off
fresh arch
I love it when rooms start to come together the way i pictured them in my mind when i started
But then I look at the brown startan all over the other rooms
fresh arch
The only slopes I like are 45 degree for interiors. Never tried much exteriors
royal wave
UDMF made slopes really easy to perform
fresh arch
I really like the doom engine as it currently is
Saves all the effort of art and programming to just focus on level design
red peak
@royal wave Eh, I'd prefer my map to not be GzDoom exclusive.
royal wave
ZDoom and Zand can do slopes
but if you're talking boom compatibility, you can kiss slopes good bye
red peak
From what I've heard some people have potato pcs that can't run GzDoom.
royal wave
oh well Β―_(γ)_/Β―
fresh arch
I dunno what to say to those people other than "this wad was designed for gzdoom"
another thing I'm liking to do is using only doom2 textures to prevent going nuts with addon texture packs
glacial skiff
@red peak Use Eternity slope actions. If you use them only in places that the player will never access, vanilla doesn't give a damn and it'll render fine in EE, ZDoom, GZDoom, and I believe Zand
fresh arch
that terminal took a bunch of texture finangling to get just right, but at the end of the day looks fantastic
hallow wraith
i could probably make a good looking castle... but not one that plays too well
vocal crypt
^
mostly everyone can make a good looking one
but not one that is linear or something
severe seal
depends on your definition of 'good'
if you want to get the details right (to make it look like a real castle) it's a lot of work
severe seal
umbral sail
started working on my maps again
hallow wraith
Is it okay for a wad to have mutiple drafts? because ive been trying to do it all in one go
lavish hollow
Sure
warped rampart
A WAD is like a lot of things, it goes through various changes in both current aspects and earlier aspects before itβs considered complete or ready for the public
hallow wraith
Im trying to learn ways to fix my mistakes in level making
severe seal
@hallow wraith nobody gets it right the first time
@hallow wraith try to build a room, test it, get it 80% good, then move on to the next one
@hallow wraith don't try to build multiple rooms at once unless you intent for the gameplay in the two to be connected (IE player runs back and forth between them while fighting)
*intend
hallow wraith
Got it
hallow wraith
I think at my fastest speed I should be able to make a map every 1 - 2 months.... I don't think i could be any faster
severe seal
@hallow wraith don't worry about speed of finishing maps... focus on your iteration time - the time between creating something basically playable, playing it and figuring out what you need to do to make it better, and doing that
@hallow wraith IE make a room with the most basic shapes and don't worry about textures, place the things, play it and see how it feels, make changes, repeat until it feels good then move to the next area
and of course when you connect areas together you'll need to go back and make sure that it still plays well
vocal crypt
I can't seem to make a circular ish staircase
you know
that spins around into another room going down?
er.
hallow wraith
@severe seal I just have to use basic shapes?
severe seal
@hallow wraith basic as in the bare minimum for whatever your concept is. like, don't start doing fancy insets, lighting and shadows (unless it's vital to gameplay), detail work, etc.
@hallow wraith basically, the more detail you add, the more work it is to change stuff later because you have to move/change/adjust/rotate EVERYTHING at once
lavish hollow
Do you have to @ him every time? Lmao
severe seal
He's not always online π
And I end up answering questions like eighteen hours later
lavish hollow
But you're answering his questions minutes after he sends them
hallow wraith
Ive been trying print screen all these tips
severe seal
Just keep an evernote or a google doc and copy/paste them π
hallow wraith
I don't have those... ive been using Pngs for visual stuff and Txt docs for writing
And rich text documents
severe seal
gmail account is free, google docs is free with that
hallow wraith
But I like all my notes offline
warped rampart
You can save GDocs for offline
hallow wraith
I don't use cloud stuff
warped rampart
You can also download them as PDFs
hallow wraith
Im old fashioned and the internet where I live isn't the best for cloud stuff
warped rampart
That is true, honestly
hallow wraith
Ive been saving everything offline..... webpages, videos, pictures
severe seal
old fashioned? you're a decade younger than me π
hallow wraith
pdfs
What decade I act from is an engima... it seems to go all over the place
My mind is chaotic
lavish hollow
I like that old fashioned rock and roll
severe seal
but do you really?
hallow wraith
But yeah i save everything offline.... because My internet is bad and I like having things offline
severe seal
fair enough
hallow wraith
I need to be more focused
severe seal
post a screenshot of one of your levels! or upload the level!
hallow wraith
Im gonna make a level and not restart this time and show it
vocal crypt
wtf?
GZDoom Builder resetted apparentyl?
*apparently?
like went to default settings
lavish hollow
Groovy
vocal crypt
no, not Groovy
everything it highlights lags it tf
and my pasting key has been changed apparently.
lavish hollow
Redownload?
fresh arch
I need some inspiration help
On my spaceship, which has a bed and a bathroom, also has a kitchen. The entirety of the kitchen is upon a desk alcove in a room. What are the objects in the kitchen?
haughty flower
Mr Coffee
severe seal
Mr Fusion
red peak
Do people generally not like sector furniture?
severe seal
what do you mean?
shadow bone
Sector furniture (couches, chairs, tables, beds, etc made from sectors) are generally somewhat non-grata.
If you're designing a vanilla-compat map, then realism should usually take a backseat to gameplay, and sector furnishings tend to just create clutter. Interesting abstracted spaces are generally preferred.
If you are going for realism, then using an advanced sourceport is recommended as you can make use of voxels, 3D floors, and 3D models to create actually-convincing furniture.
severe seal
ah
shadow bone
That said, it can be done
The key is making sure the player won't get hung up on the geometry
So if you're doing a dorm with beds for example, then make the beds of a height that the player can just walk over them if necessary, instead of getting stuck between.
Same with a chapel and church pews. Either make them low enough to walk over, or make them impassible so the player can only move in the large aisles instead of getting stuck behind/between pews
severe seal
Yeah, I've seen good use of beds, thrones, and bookshelves
red peak
There are bookshelf textures, so those don't count
shadow bone
But you can make them as actual "bookshelves" like in a library, not just textured walls around the perimeter
severe seal
Exactly
I've seen that done in a fun context where you could go between them for cover but you could also run across the tops
lavish hollow
Will gzdoom ever get improved voxel performance?
unreal oyster
probably not, voxels get converted to models so gzdoom can display them and that isn't particularly good for performance
since you need 12 tris for one voxel
not one voxel model, one voxel
lavish hollow
For me if I have more than 10 voxel things on screen, it'll almost halve the fps
severe seal
sounds like a disease
"What's wrong?" "I got the fps!"
becuase I read halve as "have" π
hallow wraith
Im drawing the layout of my map
severe seal
Good!!!
hallow wraith
Ive made a few rooms but i haven't textured them yet or changed height
severe seal
@hallow wraith that's fine, that's a start
severe seal
Is it just me or is the level design in TNT Evilution kind of.... boring
lavish hollow
One of the reasons I don't play final doom, lol
severe seal
p2p?
IMO Plutonia is really really good, and the only times I don't like it is when it seems unfairly difficult
vocal crypt
don't find the secret 32th level then.
severe seal
TNT is just like... mix and match between the following elements: Big square rooms, tiny hallway mazes, and chaingunner ambushes
unreal oyster
Plutonia is faaaar better than TNT yeah
TNT isn't held in high regard by the majority of the community, lol
severe seal
@vocal crypt I found the 32nd level in Plutonia... it's silly
unreal oyster
it's a 1994/5 wad sold commercially
severe seal
right
it's just amazing that TNT is a whole team and it's lame and plutonia is two guys in four months and it's amazing
I said amazing twice
vocal crypt
redundantmaster
unreal oyster
heh well there is a reason why dario casali got hired by valve after Plutonia's release π
severe seal
yes π
the blinking Arch-Vile that can only be killed from two specific spots on the level in the plutonia version of Dead Simple... that blew me away
I god-moded Hunted though. Fuck that level.
unreal oyster
my problem with Hunted isn't the archvile spam, but the monotexturing and overall lack of any interesting features in the map
you get lost because you have nothing to relate your position to
severe seal
Yeah exactly
You HAVE to automap, but you don't want to because you're never save
*safe
unreal oyster
Plutonia 2 MAP11 sorta fixes this but it's still a frustrating maze - the landmarks are there, but they aren't good enough imo
vocal crypt
what landmark
severe seal
IMO just in general in an FPS, small maze = okay. Large maze = just say no.
vocal crypt
unless top down
vocal crypt
meant more like camera stuff in GZDoom but ok
severe seal
oh is that a thing people do?
vocal crypt
isn't there a mod that's got a camera angle like a sidescroller?
severe seal
I've seen mods with third person mode but it looks terrible
lavish hollow
You can turn on chasecam at any time, can't you?
severe seal
Oh really?
vocal crypt
I meant more angled from the side but ok
lavish hollow
That's still third person, technically
severe seal
Do you really know the muffin man?
lavish hollow
Who lives on dreary avenue?
severe seal
lavish hollow
(It's a trick question, he really lives in dreary LANE HAHAHA)
cinder moon
sneak peek
severe seal
Nice
lavish hollow
Uhhhh... Great?
inner zealot
But like
Just look at it.
There's so much you can do with this
I'm thinking a maze where all the dead ends lead back to the entrance
Or maybe a semi-functioning TARDIS.
haughty flower
Something like The Stanley Parable, huh?
lavish hollow
So are you gonna use this for Zelda doom?
inner zealot
Actually, yes.
There's one specific screen of the game that won't work otherwise
It just loops back into it self forever.
lavish hollow
Also, any big progress with zelda doom?
inner zealot
My previous week was consumed by a theatre job
Because money is a powerful motivator
lavish hollow
Theatre job?
inner zealot
Yeah, I'm a stage hand for a play
lavish hollow
Were you the phantom of the opera?!
inner zealot
Was, at least.
No. I move boxes and props for the actors and beat up a guy in one scene
lavish hollow
What was the name of the stage play?
inner zealot
American Apartheid. It's about racism in 1906
But kinda back on topic
I've been making slow progress with learning DECORATE for weapons.
I'm partially done with the sword, but it's very unimpressive at the moment
lavish hollow
I wonder if there's racism in hyrule π€
inner zealot
Xenophobia, at least
severe seal
I just realized you could use the linedef portals to recreate the effect of the three-path maze levels in SMB2/The Lost Levels. Play a 'womp womp' sound every time the player takes the wrong path and the whole thing starts over. π
inner zealot
Why are these not used more often?
This is kind of a big feature
GZDoom Builder didn't even recognize the linedef (leading to confusion and frustration)
That may just be my version, though. I haven't checked.
severe seal
Not used more often probably because it's a really tough feature to use without just confusing and irritating the player.
inner zealot
Oh, they work in software, too.
It could be used for a really cool Lovecraftian themed mod
inner zealot
It may be difficult to pull off, but when you pull it off successfully, it's never gonna be not awesome
lavish hollow
I don't know if I've already asked, but what plans do you have after Zelda Doom?
inner zealot
Maybe a map pack?
I thought about moving on to recreate Metroid, but taking more liberties with the design (to better utilize the 3D space)
But after a quick test, I realized that it would be very fucking annoying.
lavish hollow
You must really love NES games
inner zealot
Well, I only experimented with 3D floors, I should look into those floor/ceiling floors.
They're really easy to find maps of
And usually very well documented
This makes them ideal for recreation.
lavish hollow
Idk if a platformer would really work well in doom, especially in first person
inner zealot
That's where the liberties would kick in
Rather than being flat like the original, I'd have it expand a bit
Give more focus to the shooting rather than platforming (without removing it)
But all of that isn't related to this project and is out of my skill level at the moment
(Though, I also considered doing Metroid in either Hexen II or Half Life)
(The only reason I'm considering Half Life is because no one plays Hexen II)
inner zealot
Me too.
lavish hollow
Just needs to be less.. Confusing
That's probably just cuz I'm not exactly a pro at hexen tho
I haven't even played the original hexen for more than 10 minutes, hexen 2 was really my first foray into hexen
haughty flower
@shadow bone how's tranquility doing?
shadow bone
@haughty flower I won't lie, I'm about this close to ditching the whole thing. I tried to add a shotgun and the whole mess fell apart at the seams
vocal crypt
How?
shadow bone
Mostly the way I had my various "gun parts" set up.
Unfortunately, fixing them has been causing more problems
There's a crash when firing a bullet and I can't figure out what it is
shadow bone
No, GZDoom
Unfortunately this is a niche project without a lot of interested parties, I'm using ZScript which even fewer people in the community understand, and there's a metric fuckton of code to debug, which no one wants to do, even me
So I can't seem to get the help I need, unfortunately.
and I'm completely out of ideas how to fix it
vocal crypt
Throw a hammer at it
shadow bone
so I'm pretty close to just dtiching the whole damn thing
vocal crypt
It works for AKs
halcyon cairn
ZScript?
shadow bone
GZDoom's new scripting language to replace ACS/Decorate
vocal crypt
It's the new Doom mod code
unreal oyster
ZScript doesn't replace ACS, it replaces DECORATE
and gets rid of the need to do awful DECORATE+ACS hacks
and, nah, it's a real coding language
vocal crypt
Didn't it help with that mod that gave monsters the DN3D style of shadows?
unreal oyster
well, this is GZDoom, the original Doom doesn't have this at all
vocal crypt
Tbf, original doom is open source
unreal oyster
yeah though i believe Eternity are also working on a scripting VM
vocal crypt
IIRC
shadow bone
Original Doom (more specifically the idtech 1 engine) was open-sourced in 1997.
vocal crypt
Didn't they start the id tech engine stuff with Quake 1?
Well, calling them suxh
Such*
shadow bone
They back-named them sometime around Doom3 I think
haughty flower
I see.
haughty flower
id planned to regain the momentum withΒ id Tech 5,[1]Β until they were bought byΒ ZeniMax MediaΒ which intends to keep the id Tech engines exclusively for id's sister studios.
How sad.
I have always loved id for how they supported modding and stuff.
unreal oyster
Bethesda don't deserve any of their child companies
why is it that Bethesda get Arkane, id and Machine Games, 3 studios way better than their parent
shadow bone
Money
shadow bone
Also Oblivion and Morrowind. That whole franchise has been stupidly successful
haughty flower
E3 2018 - Skyrim for Toasters
halcyon cairn
yes
very succesful
with a small team of devs
not much expenditure on wage
my fucking mother plays skyrim
that's how many people play their games
my little brother has access to my whole steam library and all he wants to play is fallout
haughty flower
I actually know of no one in real who plays Elder Scrolls.
Everyone plays CS, though.
halcyon cairn
everyone I know plays either LoL or just games on console
but they always say "oh yeah I play Skyrim sometimes"
halcyon cairn
I feel this conversation is straying from mods and map development
but yeah
it's impressive they have so many people playing a triple-A priced game, that's exclusively singleplayer
haughty flower
That sentence seems to suggest that triple A games are obligated to have multiplayer.
haughty flower
are you challenging id
halcyon cairn
it's just that society would suggest that multiplayer is a big desire
haughty flower
Just kidding.
halcyon cairn
no lol I love DOOM
as a SINGLEPLAYER GAME
WHOAHHHHH
I'm not even joking I think their multiplayer is a pile of junk
haughty flower
Well, it could be fun, but it lacks stuff that makes the singleplayer fun.
No music for one.
halcyon cairn
I'd love some Co-op
haughty flower
SnapMap.
halcyon cairn
that isn't just CoD zombie map clones
haughty flower
Good music in there.
halcyon cairn
DOOM has good music
snapmap just uses it
wait so am I calling it DOOM properly
DOOM in caps for the 2016 game
and Doom for the classic
halcyon cairn
@hard elm how do you pronounce DOOM
hard elmBOT
I have no idea. That is whhy I am asking you.
haughty flower
Hell, I went out of my way and got the collector's edition.
Never done that for any other game.
halcyon cairn
I played it to death
and it's still kicking
I beat the whole game on nightmare
not ultra-nightmare
I'm not that good
I can get as far as the second level on ultra nightmare
halcyon cairn
do we not get barons in snapmap?
halcyon cairn
I know what the spoiler is
shame but understandable
considering they're scripted events
halcyon cairn
can you display health counters?
haughty flower
Yes.
halcyon cairn
do we know what 2016 doomguy looks like
halcyon cairn
cool
haughty flower
My eyes have seen better.
sand temple
Now he is the demons
lavish hollow
Bethesda is the BEST at singleplayer
ha? Hahaha! hAHAHAHAHHHHHAAAAHAHA
pearl sundial
whatssofunny
warped rampart
Well, DOOM kinda falls under that statement
lavish hollow
And that was made by ID
What's funny is that as of late, Bethesda has been making their games worse and worse imo
haughty flower
Not to mention how Fallout 4 contradicts all lore.
lavish hollow
Actually haven't heard of that one but I really wouldn't be surprised
severe seal
Full disclosure: I really enjoyed Fallout 3, but all the points in the video are still valid.
It's a great video if you half an hour and a half to spare (or you are folding laundry, doing dishes, etc.)
lavish hollow
I disagreed with a lot of points, and the guy who made that vid is like.. Really unlikable tbh, he has made a lot of videos that'll make you question his retardation levels
severe seal
I love his videos
He has a really weird sense of humor, which I can understand is probably polarizing
But I polarize to the 'love it' side of things
lavish hollow
To each their own, lol
severe seal
You just gotta appreciate his willingness to dress up in a terrible Sonic cosplay just to talk about how weird Sonic lore is
lavish hollow
Haven't seen that, sounds great
But then he makes a video about pewdiepie being a nazi, and makes another about anti feminists
severe seal
The one about pewdiepie isn't actually about him being a nazi, if you watch the whole thing
Also the anti feminists are terrible and deserve it
lavish hollow
Uhhh bro, I'm kinda anti feminist lol
severe seal
Happy to discuss it somewhere else
red peak
Time to break out the popcorn again.
severe seal
tldr most of the anti-feminist stuff on youtube is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of feminist arguments AND a selective consumption of only a few exceptionally aggressive people, IE taking the worst examples and extrapolating it to everyone.
plus, a lot of them claim to be all about facts and reason, while selectively using only SOME facts and ignoring others, misusing and misquoting data, or making reasonable-sounding arguments that make sense in a vaccuum but are fragile when exposed to outside data
lavish hollow
I've never seen this, like, ever
severe seal
friend of mine from high school sent me a Sargon video once saying I should watch it to understand something or other and it was just Sargon making stuff up about biology and using it to justify his sexism
hbomberguy quotes studies in his videos
like, lots of them... he does more research than any of the youtubers he's criticising
red peak
Why is this in the mapping channel
severe seal
I don't know
I mean I do know
But sorry π
Because hbomberguy does videos with really insightful game design analysis.... AND videos about other stuff that is totally unrelated
severe seal
In other news, I'm about halfway throug back to saturn X, and it's a lot of fn.
er, fun
severe seal
Just checked and I just finished level 12... damn level took me 45 minutes
lavish hollow
Kewl
haughty flower
Fallout 3 was decent, but could be better.
The story is messed up, slight lore contradictions.
Timeframe is screwed.
Fallout 4 is decent, but it throws the lore out of the window.
severe seal
Water seems too light and too blue for the time of day the skybox indicates
cinder moon
ok
severe seal
Unless it's not water and it's actually one of those limited edition Mountain Dew flavors they have at Taco Bell sometimes
cinder moon
no, its water but il change it
severe seal
Not sure what else to say without playing it π
vague zealot
can someone help me with this? its in the SBARINFO lump:
drawnumber 2147483647, HUDFONT_DOOM, untranslated, LightweightArmor, drawshadow, 82, -10;
it tells me that LightweightArmor is not an inventory item, but i dont know what else to put
vague zealot
i just found it on zdoom wiki and it looks like there's no easy way to do it for my mod
prisma saddle
Have a new WAD.
royal wave
Good work @prisma saddle
Just need to learn how to polish ideas and you'll be making something cool in no time!
red peak
WIP in progress
pearl sundial
:o
pearl sundial
@red peak kmp on that map please, looks good so far
prisma saddle
Been doing a detail pass.
Trying to fake bounce lighting by using low brightness dynamic lights.
Sorta wish it was a bit easier to make the sectors peak a bit more.,
pearl sundial
looks nice so far
haughty flower
That looks pretty good.
red peak
Noice
carmine badge
all the fuggin sprites i've made for a mod
pearl sundial
nice greanade launcher ;d
severe seal
@prisma saddle Playing your level... when the door to the shotgun opened up I said aloud "Oh, thank you." π
hallow wraith
I haven't mapped in a few days due to lack of ideas at the moment
lavish hollow
You spelled wad wrong
prisma saddle
Wait, did I?
lavish hollow
Definitely
lavish hollow
...it was a joke
prisma saddle
Oh.
lavish hollow
I'm such a cunt
haughty flower
I can never get the hang of map-making :I
hallow wraith
I have no ideas for map making
haughty flower
I've got ideas, just I lack the know-how to implement them xD
pearl sundial
@red peak howβs that map coming along
royal wave
time and practice
haughty flower
I should prob. start small, too
hallow wraith
I don't think or come up with ideas the way everyone else does
red peak
wippity wippity
So yes, it's admittedly an edit to Glaice's Maps of Chaos
An edit of an edit
For my own amusement
hallow wraith
Why is GZDoombuilder giving me so many error lately
inner zealot
Did you update?
I didn't for that exact reason.
Kept crashing
Does anyone else like grids?
lavish hollow
π± π
inner zealot
You say that like it's impressive.
hallow wraith
It auto updates
inner zealot
No.
I'm playing around with UDMF features and I made simple grid textures
Apparently there is a grid map in Reelism
vast plaza
Hey, I'm new to this kind of stuff but I'm trying to make my fire decorate play a sound when the player is near it, however It doesn't play.
Actor FirePitsOfHell 1276
{
height 32
radius 32
+NOCLIP
+NOBLOCKMAP
+LOOKALLAROUND
+CLIENTSIDEONLY
Renderstyle Translucent
Scale 1.5
states
{
Spawn:
TNT1 A 0
TNT1 A 0 A_Playsound("MUSIC/redfire")
F1RE ABCDEFGH 2 bright
F2RE ABCDEFGH 2 bright
Loop
}
}
There's the code, and the sound is located in a folder called "MUSIC" in the root, and the filename is "redfire"
unreal oyster
you need to define the sound in SNDINFO probably
unreal oyster
should be something like fire/idle MUSIC/redfire
change fire/idle to whatever
ideally it should be a name that represents what the sound "means"
and then you play that name instead of the file's name
vast plaza
Thanks, I'll play around for a while π
inner zealot
Have you read the article on ZDoom wiki
sonic bronze
Anyone know if you can mod Doom on consoles?
red peak
No
sonic bronze
Darn, well thanks for saying
Would be cool to do stuff like Demonsteele on console, and especially try out the craziness that is NUTS on there.
royal wave
Really doubt a console would be able to handle a mod like that
maybe if you got linux on your console and compiled GZDoom
but consoles aren't exactly as powerful as they lead you on to be
warped rampart
No computer is powerful enough to run NUTS
lavish hollow
Can a console run Guncaster tho π€
lavish hollow
Gzdoom on Commadore 64 when
lavish hollow
GZdoom
inner zealot
I can't even use newer versions of OpenGL
weak lodge
that's cool and all but can it run doom?
zinc egret
Use QZDoom
prisma saddle
Another ACS test map thing of mine.
thick grove
ACS?
lavish hollow
Ye
reef wedge
hell yeahhh boy
ill try it out
yeah thats actually really fuckin' sweet
reminds me of those water sections in HL2
red peak
Scripting magic
reef wedge
yeah that sums it up well
lavish hollow
@thick grove just scripting stuff
red peak
ahem
I've got a thing cooked up, but there's a few problems:
- It's an edit of the Doom IWAD maps.
- It's an edit of someone else's work on top of that.
So I wonder if it's fine to share it.
red peak
It's Glaice's edited E1 maps, with further edits by me.
reef wedge
i mean if you give credit, it should be fine
lavish hollow
MoC?
red peak
By "edit", I mean extra bits tacked onto the beginning and end of each map.
reef wedge
and episode 1 was shareware i believe
red peak
@lavish hollow Yes.
lavish hollow
That should be fine, then, as long as you credit
red peak
Should I remove the unedited maps?
red peak
Nvm, I might edit the other Doom 1 maps in the future
lavish hollow
Kewl
red peak
Enjoi
Remember, Doom 1 iwad, KDITD
Also credit given to Glaice that I didn't put in the zip
And Id
I would recommend Brutal Doom, but since Glaice hates it now, I recommend Beautiful Doom or something
lavish hollow
Lmao
reef wedge
smooth doom bby
haughty flower
lol
red peak
So, any comments?
zinc egret
lol where'd that come from
red peak
where'd what
inner zealot
I think this is inadvertantly becoming a map-dev texturepack
The door texture needs a bit of work, though
I officially love UDMF now
Fuckin' bridges
lavish hollow
BRRRRIIIDGEE
pearl sundial
jeff bridges
red peak
Hideous demonic growths make convenient elevators.
lavish hollow
Stairs
severe seal
Woo! My first level is up on /idgames
prisma saddle
red peak
@inner zealot Any variation of ZDoom required. ZDoom: Doom in Doom format.
red peak
Halfway through with E2 already.
severe seal
I'm playing around with GZDB, creating a level in UDMF format... what are some of the more interesting special actions?
red peak
I heard that there were super easy slopes
shadow bone
Slopes, schmopes. You can edit vertex heights directly!
Also, Doom64 style lighting (spearate colors/glows for top/bottom/walls)
Also real portals for both walls and sectors
royal wave
Vertexes can only be changed if it's attached to a triangle sector mind you
severe seal
I'm having a weird issue where some behavior of a sector seems to change if I change the texture on one of its linedefs :/
royal wave
How so?
severe seal
I'm raising the floor of the sector, and there's an outer-facing lower texture that only shows up when the floor is raised... when I set that lower texture to something, the floor doesn't raise.
I may also be wrong about what's happening
royal wave
can you show me a screenshot?
severe seal
So... I just got it working and I'm not sure what was wrong before :/
severe seal
Haha
I'm trying out the level design pattern where rooms are complex and the relationships between them are constantly changing as doors open and close, walls raise, lifts appear, etc.
royal wave
Sounds neat
severe seal
Yup, just made a slope, super easy
Though when I chose the wrong option between front and back the results were hilariously terrible
royal wave
an easier method is using the vertex method
if you split your sector into two triangles, you can raise the vertexes evenly
this keeps the slope and allows you to use the line for a different action
severe seal
WIP - lots of startan, using some custom textures from elsewhere. GZDoom stuff - slopes, some fancy teleporter stuff.
unreal oyster
can i just say (haven't played the map, so don't take this as criticism, more as a warning) to avoid heavy use of slopes to provide flooring for the player
zdoom slope physics are really annoying to deal with and so it's generally best to be conservative with your use of them
severe seal
Yeah, I discovered pretty quickly that weird stuff can happen. I blocked off the one slope I'm using to monsters.
plush sapphire
I haven't actually used slopes. What's the funky behavior with'em?
severe seal
It just feels weird. The player seems to accelerate incorrectly. It's easy to walk up on the very edge of it, and monsters can walk up the edge too.
unreal oyster
imagine classic doom friction but now with slopes
slopes allow you to move vertically & horizontally at the same time and it really fucks with friction
severe seal
It might be best to use slopes more for looks, where the player can't get to them (or on the ceiling)
plush sapphire
I kinda get what you mean. I figured it would be a weird jumpy type of glitching.
red peak
So it feels like you're walking on banana peels?
red peak
Aw, there goes my dream of fighting on rolling sand dunes.
red peak
Ah, yes, Sam.
I haven't played TSE in ages. You reminded me.
Haven't beat the game before.
red peak
Sam 2 is more Silly Sam.
severe seal
haha
red peak
Once the game gets up to speed though it's really fun.
severe seal
it just looks like the gameplay is "100 dudes are coming at you, kite them forever"
red peak
damn skeletons
plush sapphire
Skeletons are the worst
plush sapphire
There are parts of Serious Sam 1 & 2 that really remind me of Doom, but most of it is just simply not like that.
unreal oyster
serious sam is interested in throwing tons of enemies at you, and it does what it sets out to do well, heh
unreal oyster
you won't get twisting level design like you get in doom, you get big rooms and lots of enemies to fight
plush sapphire
But it's no Doom.
red peak
Sam takes Doom's simple gameplay and simplifies it even further.
But the platforming is horribad
Sam is so damn slow, and there's no air control
severe seal
you guys are really not selling this π
red peak
Well, if you like shooting 100s of things and Doom slaughtermaps have gotten stale, play Serious Sam.