Absolutely no progress.
#classic-doom-maps-mods
vocal crypt
how
inner zealot
I need you to run the WAD and tell me if you see props
vocal crypt
well deliver it to me and I can try.
lavish hollow
Trees and such
vocal crypt
@inner zealot
vocal crypt
tell me a area where there is suppose to be trees
lavish hollow
To the left of where you start
lavish hollow
For me there is no trees anywhere, but for you there's trees in one place but not another...
inner zealot
I'm running ZDoom 2.8.1
vocal crypt
Hm
inner zealot
One thing me and Jefe noticed was that even vanilla Doom props didn't show up
vocal crypt
what level making program are you using?
lavish hollow
Doom builder 2
inner zealot
I can't run GZDoom or GZDoom builder on this thing
It's not my choice to stick to the older stuff (this time)
lavish hollow
So you've tried gzdoom builder?
vocal crypt
seems like you need to pass the map making duties to someone else.
or upgrade a little
anyway
looking at it in GZDoom Builder
the trees do appear
on the left
inner zealot
I CAN move to another computer
I'm just lazy
I guess I don't have much of a choice if I want to continue smoothly, though
vocal crypt
also, is there anything required to run alongside ZeldaDoom?
inner zealot
Not at all, everything's in it
vocal crypt
also, how come when you go into the cave it goes to the next level?
I'd think you wouldn't want that
inner zealot
How so?
vocal crypt
because we have different versions technically source ports all together running this wad
with yours showing
Jefe's not showing shit
mine showing it in some places but not others
lavish hollow
I don't see how that could be the problem, have you looked at the coding?
vocal crypt
I have, it looks normal
inner zealot
There isn't much other than some basic DECORATE
vocal crypt
I noticed.
Also, Zav is running ZDoom which has been discontinued since January of 2016
*167
*17
jfc
or febuary
inner zealot
Yeah, I plan to move over to GZDoom to take advantage of certain features, anyway
Mainly the portal linedef
lavish hollow
@vocal crypt you can edit messages
lavish hollow
Writing another message takes the same effort as editing one
vocal crypt
and moving to another computer should take the same effort as well.
lavish hollow
Moving to a computer takes WAY more effort
inner zealot
I guess it wouldn't take too much
Like
A flash drive and a few minutes
I think it'd take maybe 10-15 minutes to move the project over to a computer and install all the GZDoom stuff
I'm playing Dark Souls right now, though
lavish hollow
@inner zealot did you die in dark souls yet?
inner zealot
I did just start
I, oddly enough, killed the first boss first try without taking a hit
I've died while practicing parrying on the weak enemies
inner zealot
Ummm... have you beaten both?
lavish hollow
Nope
prisma saddle
Quake is a good game,
inner zealot
Wait, is this really the channel to discuss this?
lavish hollow
Or general
inner zealot
Attempting to move over to GZDoom, now
pearl sundial
gl
lavish hollow
Groovy
inner zealot
Okay, I've moved most of the stuff over to a laptop that can run GZDoom
And...
Props, again, work fine for me
Even if they are a bit skinny
Here's a screenshot from ZDoom on the old setup and GZDoom on the new.
This doesn't help to uncomplicate things
lavish hollow
Not at all
Maybe I'll try redownloading the wad, I noticed you sent a different one earlier
inner zealot
I can upload again
vocal crypt
ok this is weird
Now my GZDoom shows those maze like row things of rocks or trees or whatever.
@inner zealot
well it did
wtf?
inner zealot
@vocal crypt Wait, what?
vocal crypt
for one instance of running your map, the stuff showed up, now it isn't
and I was just adding the Famicom Disk System title song playing during the title on my "copy"
er
all of it
now it's just trees
inner zealot
This is... very confusing
inner zealot
It's updating right now
lavish hollow
Groovy
lavish hollow
Gnarly
vocal crypt
My copy, though the only change is the title music.
inner zealot
That was enough to bring the file size up by 2 MB?
unkempt wadi
tfw there are people who actually care about wad filesize
lavish hollow
I'm surprised, the song isn't even like 2 minutes long
unkempt wadi
there are people who care about wad filesize when winter's fury exists
inner zealot
I personally don't think it matters until it gets to be above 100MB
unkempt wadi
so winter's fury
vocal crypt
tfw when people don't realize amount of content correlateas to size
unkempt wadi
1 2 6 m b
mellow lava
let's make a 55Gb wad, will prolly have 400% more content than Doom2016 
vocal crypt
fine then
lavish hollow
Lmao
inner zealot
No fucking idea
I was just going with it
I'm not ready for that, I can't even get props to show up on other people's game
lavish hollow
Each episode is a TC of a random Zelda game
lavish hollow
Episode 8: Four Swords or whatever tf it was called
inner zealot
You were right, thanks
unkempt wadi
i remember when i was watching a gzdoom builder tutorial and he said to press w to go into 3d mode
it was q
he didn't correct himself
i was so lost
inner zealot
Oh it supports long texture names
For shame. Like it's so hard to add an annotation in post
Also, was the tutorial good, at least?
unkempt wadi
i never finished the series but that video did teach me the basics of working gzdoom builder in 2d and 3d modes
inner zealot
I have a loose theory.
vocal crypt
tell us bitch
inner zealot
Could it have something to do with all the non-prop things in the map?
I haven't cleaned them up
So I have no idea what any of them may actually be doing
inner zealot
Uhhh... yes
I'm clearing them out now, they're annoying the shit out of me, anyway
GZDoom Builder is so much... nicer to use
vocal crypt
elaborate
vocal crypt
I'm afraid that theory didn't work for me.
lavish hollow
Did you do it right
vocal crypt
hang on
inner zealot
I don't understand why they STILL show for me and not you guys
vocal crypt
Wait wait
I think it's got something to do with the skill level thing
click on a thing, and look at the checkbox with Skill # or something
yeah apparently it does
inner zealot
All set for skill 1, 2, and 3
inner zealot
All eight?
inner zealot
Why the fuck is there eight of them?
vocal crypt
uh
I'm Too Young To Die
Hey Not Too Rough
Hurt Me Plenty
Ultra Violence
Nightmare?
IDK
but
inner zealot
Worth a try, I guess
vocal crypt
make sure you send that copy over as well
inner zealot
It's on its way
Should I start changing the name before there's a bunch of different versions with the same name>
vocal crypt
up to you lad.
inner zealot
inner zealot
I thought about putting together a separate WAD with all the FDS tracks
vocal crypt
so, you're using the NES tracks?
inner zealot
I haven't really started to add any tracks at all
vocal crypt
I meant when you get to that
vocal crypt
a placeholder.
vocal crypt
with the same lump btw
inner zealot
Apparently somewhere between the version you sent me and the one I have, I lost MAP02
So, thanks for sending me MAP02 back
vocal crypt
Yeah, why?
inner zealot
In Hexen, there's no real transition
You just go to the map
Doom 2 has all the stuff it plays when you end a map
Any idea how to remedy this?
vocal crypt
not yet
apparently it's something you gotta remove or somethin
oh wait
the nointermission flag
in GAMEINFO
no
map definitio
@inner zealot
inner zealot
Where ya' gettin' this info from?
inner zealot
Thanks, yet again
vocal crypt
yw
inner zealot
Do what?
inner zealot
You can, there's not reason to
But yeah, we fixed the issue
So now I can actually start working again
lavish hollow
Groovy, I'll do it now then
inner zealot
Uhh... take this one, instead
lavish hollow
Take which one
inner zealot
lavish hollow
What am I taking
inner zealot
I don't know, I'm confused
lavish hollow
Join the club
inner zealot
What are you doing and why/
severe seal
Hey everyone
inner zealot
Hello
severe seal
I'm fulfilling a lifelong dream of building a Doom 2 map to release ๐
lavish hollow
Sweet!
vocal crypt
ew
severe seal
It's not quite done yet but I will need people to test it. I think it might be too hard.
unreal oyster
the doom community is pretty used to really hard maps, heh
the important thing is creative use of monsters over difficulty
people are happy to be challenged as long as it's fun
inner zealot
What was that one map that had you kill Cyberdemons with the environment?
vocal crypt
Cyberdreams?
unreal oyster
cyberdreams?
inner zealot
I guess it was Cyberdreams, then.
severe seal
I'll check it out on youtube
unreal oyster
swivel - post shots, i'm interested in seeing what you have to offer ๐
inner zealot
I remember another one where your goal was to find ammo so you could kill yourself
severe seal
I just rebooted in OS X ๐ I have to go back to windows and install Discord there...
inner zealot
Then you'd advance
severe seal
lol
inner zealot
Dual boot?
severe seal
Yeah
I just got comfortable with editing workflow, so now I'm doing a lot of iteration.
I bit off a lot though... I doodled the level design while I was bored somewhere and it's pretty big and complicated!
inner zealot
Join the club, I'm remaking Zelda.
inner zealot
So you actually sketch stuff out beforehand? Graph paper?
unreal oyster
best type of paper for sketching maps is plain
encourages you to work off the grid
well, to a certain extent
it's more that it means you end up drawing lines that aren't orthagonal
severe seal
Not graph paper... it's kind of funny actually, my dad is in a community band that has an annual two-day festival and I help him record it. So I basically sit in one place all day and hit record and stop and make sure nothing explodes. So I got bored and drew the level on the back of a CD order form.
severe seal
Doom 2
I didn't start building the level for a while and I can't read or understand a bunch of the notes ๐
inner zealot
Ever made a map before?
severe seal
I've dabbled. I've worked professionally as a game designer, but for social and mobile games, so it was all systems design.
carmine badge
sup guys, im new here and im a mapper as well so i'll ask you guys to give me some constructive criticism on my wip mappack (consists of 11 maps) http://www.moddb.com/mods/no-guts-no-glory/downloads/no-guts-no-glory-demo-v2 it has somewhat of coop support too
since it's a mappack there's no new content except a bunch of textures, you can play it with any mod you want
severe seal
@carmine badge I'll play it when I finish my breakfast but you have to promise to help test the map I'm working on later ๐
carmine badge
@severe seal no problem, im always looking forward to do something in exchange
oh also i didnt mention i've also done a deathrun map for doom, its a short one but the traps arent easy to dodge https://www.mediafire.com/?016ga4hxkp9qj6j it has support for up to 8 players and needs at least 2 in order to be played (unless you wanna look around the map)
severe seal
@carmine badge Just finished the first level. I usually try to kill everything but I gave up once I realized I was up against four transparent revenants with nothing but a shotgun and a chaingun with barely any ammo.
I ran through the last room and skipped the Baron
Overall - it looks good, it's a bit too dark in places IMO, and it's VERY hard. In some places, the difficulty strikes me as 'unfair hair' - such as the surprise where you end up with chaingunners directly to your left and right. That took me from 100% to 17% in about three seconds! The area with the revenants is terrible for fighting them in, so the only option is really to run.
carmine badge
@severe seal the revenant thing was a trap to scare people off and they werent there to fight you but rather to scatter off players and i wanted my levels to have a lot of unexpected ambushes so don't be surprised when something like that pops up often
severe seal
I really like this huge open area in level ... 3? With the giant colunm of shotgun guys. I ran out of ammo and I had to chainsaw up it ๐
Yeah okay if you don't expect anyone to get 100% then you succeeded ๐
Ammo is so sparse that it seems literally impossible to 100% these levels
I'm just not used to playing like that
The levels definitely get the adrenaline pumping! My advice would be just to judge the difference between surprising the player and killing them instantly. I just finished Plutonia and while there are a lot of surprises, there's nearly always enough time for the player go to "OH SHIT!" and run. The first few levels actually have the most deathtraps, like dropping the player into a tiny room with an arch-vile... but even then there are little columns to hide behind.
carmine badge
dunno, i've had a playtester complain there was too much ammo and now this, you guys are fucking weird lol
maybe the problem is that he had knowledge of secrets and you dont
severe seal
yes, I don't
I've been playtesting my own level pretending not to know about the secrets and taking different routes, just to make sure it's beatable and there's enough ammo no matter how someone approaches it
carmine badge
i've been doing that too and i rarely came into situations where i didn't have enough ammo, kinda weird that you run out of it
are you playing vanilla or with mods? if with mods then there might be a problem
carmine badge
i dont really know then, weird
i play with gzdoom too so its not really a problem
maybe its how you make use of the ammo i give you, i dont really know
severe seal
I'm also at the point where there's an arch-vile and I only have shotgun and chaingun
well I try to kill stuff
instead of just running through the level
carmine badge
i 100% pretty much every level
carmine badge
when i try to play without secrets i try not to kill every single thing i encounter, only when necessary (for an example if i can go past a baron/hell knight without wasting ammo on him and without getting hurt then i don't have to kill it), i also keep an eye for ammo and health and try to save up pickups (for an example if there's a healthpack that restores 25 health and im almost full on health, then i'll keep the healthpack in mind when i need it, same goes for ammo) and i try to minimize usage of weapons which are powerful but dont have enouh ammo so i rely on basic weapons like shotgun and chaingun most of the time
severe seal
I haven't found any other weapons anyway ๐ฆ I saw the rocket launcher on level 2 but got the blue key and beat the level without it
carmine badge
plus if im in a small room with a bunch of monsters i like to rely on chainsaw more than ssg (especially on low hp monsters like zombiemen and imps)
severe seal
ahhh yeah I don't use chainsaw much hmmm
Just finished sacrificial grounds with no secrets ๐ฆ
carmine badge
in my levels i've kind of designed them to force the players to look out for secrets (not in all maps) and i use a lot of ways to give them out - you know, the misaligned texture kind of giveaways but there's more
severe seal
yeah, I've found a few
it's hard to look out for secrets when you're running away from barons and revenants though!
carmine badge
sacrifical grounds doesn't have much valuable secrets, there's only a berserk pack, second chainsaw/armor and a rocket launcher
the upcoming map will be very challenging, after that you'll have an easier map that'll help you "recover"
recover as in it will provide less challenging monsters and will have a lot of ammo/health packs around
severe seal
Weird, you've got a fence that seems to be in the 'wrong place' - looks odd. On the staircase in the door down and to the right of where the player starts
severe seal
Fence inside floor!
I really like this room where the pillars in front of the doors raise up before the player gets the key, like you're telegraphing in advance that there will be a trap
carmine badge
yeah that's how i used to do fences before, i didnt have any textures for fences so i've just cut off the bar textures and called it a fence
severe seal
Subtle custom scripting here ๐ A few "kill everyone for the doors to open" rooms...
Huh, when I came back up to the level starting point there was some hall of mirror going on in the sky above the chiangunner @carmine badge
unreal oyster
oh yeah btw please don't use moddb if you want me to download your maps -_-
it's slow as shit
vocal crypt
^
unreal oyster
use dropbox, because it won't literally give me a 40kb/s connection
(and - i've checked, my internet's fine.)
severe seal
@carmine badge I love these rooms with monster beds and bookshelves ๐
carmine badge
@severe seal i didn't implement support for software doom yet, so expect some trouble rendering skyboxes
@vocal crypton GZDoom Hexen format
severe seal
@carmine badge I think I'm using gpu acceleration
@carmine badge Just finished Familiar? - I feel like I only saw a third of the level, but I don't know... really fun though. Well balanced, I felt challenged but not hopeless, and I really like the visuals, the feeling of going further and further underground
unreal oyster
@carmine badge you should stop using Hexen format, there's no reason to
use UDMF instead
royal wave
^
If you need help switching over, I can send you a tool that can convert your map into UDMF without having to remake everything
carmine badge
@unreal oyster i dont like the udmf format, its way too confusing and unorganized, the hexen format fits me just fine and there's no gameplay difference between said formats
@royal wave gzdoom builder converts formats just fine
royal wave
UDMF unorganized?
vocal crypt
who tf complains about that?
royal wave
if you're using gzdoom builder, what are you talking about?
It's literally the same as hexen, but with everything allowed
and then some
vocal crypt
also, when did GZDoom Builder convert formats?
royal wave
yeah last I checked you can't tell it to open a map in a different format, nor any sort of conversion method
royal wave
They should make that a bit more obvious
unreal oyster
goes back to DB2 even
royal wave
if it's one criticism i have against doom builder, is the editor is not intuitive
unreal oyster
potentially even DB1
it's intuitive in some places, in some other places it's very much not though yeah
royal wave
In terms of UI design, I've always believed that you never leave a feature behind a key
There are certain things you can get away with like that, as some editors tend to adopt universal rules
Like space being pan
unreal oyster
oh it has a menu option too heh
royal wave
where
unreal oyster
edit->map options
severe seal
.....space is pan?
royal wave
Yeah hold space
vocal crypt
what does pan do? Is that a camera control?
royal wave
pans the map
in 2D view
most people just automatically use scroll since it adjusts it based on mouse location\
but holding space will make it drag the map around without zooming
carmine badge
pretty sure i wont need 70% of what these tabs offer me, especially the comment part
unreal oyster
you should update your GZDB
the original version died, you should be using this one ^ now
carmine badge
last time i've heard gzdoom builder won't allow me to build raising individual stairs so no thanks
unreal oyster
i can tell because you're actually missing a UDMF tab ๐
wait what, are you still on DB2 lol
vocal crypt
wtf blazing
carmine badge
its gzdoom builder, the fuck are you talking about?
unreal oyster
but you just said "no thanks"...?
vocal crypt
is it DB2 or GZDB?
carmine badge
gzdoom builder jesus christ
carmine badge
well it's still making my maps and that's all i pretty much need
now with that aside i didnt really ask you to advise me on what version of doom builders i should be using but to give me some constructive criticism on my maps
unreal oyster
well you're quite far behind, because this is how the "edit sector" box looks in the new versions http://i.imgur.com/RrzTn9r.png
severe seal
I think telling you that your editor is out of date is pretty useful
vocal crypt
oh nice, they added the water as a checkbox thing?
carmine badge
it does everything i need and want, so if i encounter an issue or maybe if my version of gzdb doesnt do what i want then i'll update it
vocal crypt
an ignorant one huh.
unreal oyster
water has always been a checkbox
carmine badge
not really, i just dont see the reason why i should update it
unreal oyster
that method of doing water is old and outdated anyway
reason is pretty simple, bugfixes
vocal crypt
is that the logic you use for Windows?
carmine badge
i didnt encounter a single bug yet, if we put some crashes aside
unreal oyster
right, but why wouldn't you update just in case?
prevents you from running into bugs in the future
carmine badge
also i have windows 10 so i dont see your point megatron
unreal oyster
the program even has an auto updater ffs lmao
carmine badge
i dont see why i should? if theres some cool new feature that didnt come with my version of gzdb or is impossible to do in it then i'll update but that's yet to be seen
vocal crypt
told you it was ignorance
unreal oyster
there are cool new features that you can't do in your version, but they're all in UDMF lol
carmine badge
for an example?
unreal oyster
doom 64 style sector lighting
allows you to set the floor color, ceiling color, lower wall color, upper wall color and thing color for any sector individually
carmine badge
so i dont have to put the color thing in order to color a sector?
unreal oyster
no, but you haven't had to do that in UDMF for ages anyway
this is more of an extension to the old colored lighting system
which colors all the walls the same, the floor, the ceiling and the things
royal wave
the great thing about UDMF is it's limited only to the engine that supports it
so when you use it, you don't have to worry about "The next big thing"
When builder updates or a source port updates, you don't have to change anything
unreal oyster
yeah, it's basically the ultimate format because it's infinitely extendable
unlike Doom and Hexen which are restricted by design
carmine badge
alright thats what i wanted to hear
unreal oyster
though, i won't write off doom format
i think doom format is the best choice for beginners
royal wave
I'd agree there. Learn your tools first before you bite off more than you can chew
unreal oyster
fact i'm making a Boom map right now heh
royal wave
you disgust me
severe seal
I'm making a vanilla doom 2 map ๐คท
vocal crypt
I'm terrible at maps
royal wave
I'm going to vomit
vocal crypt
not my fault my mapping sucks donkey ass balls
unreal oyster
swivel - would it actually run in vanilla doom, though? heh
severe seal
I hope?
carmine badge
im mapping for like a whole year so if thats beginner level then how long would an average level mapper map for doom
severe seal
I don't think I'm doing anything fancy...
royal wave
depends on the project and how fast they can make things
severe seal
My goal was to build with the limitations of doom 2 because I like those limitations
unreal oyster
if you press this button it will put GZDB into a mode which can analyse the map and see if it's vanilla compatible
royal wave
anectdote, my current project is a few years old and only has recently taken shape with what it's going to be
unreal oyster
it will show you the map in different shades of tan
if you have any point on the map which is red, it won't be completely vanilla compatible
severe seal
TAN ALL THE WAY! ๐
unreal oyster
because it will cause a visplane overflow
right, then
try each one of these
if any one of them fails, it'll cause an overflow in vanilla
also you'll wanna do the same thing with the "open doors" checkbox enabled
my current map is, uh, not so vanilla friendly http://i.imgur.com/zJDbOXX.png
not that it matters, it's a boom map lol
royal wave
dear lord that looks like infected cauliflower
unreal oyster
the pink areas are "SERIOUS VISPLANE OVERFLOW" areas lmao
severe seal
I don't have that option :/
unreal oyster
hmm
vocal crypt
what is overflow?
severe seal
I thought I had the newest version but perhaps not
unreal oyster
make sure you have the mode enabled first
vocal crypt
too much for vanilla doom 2?
unreal oyster
you have to open visplane explorer mode first then that option will become accessible
and, yeah, Megatron
severe seal
oh huh
unreal oyster
vanilla has a render limit on certain things
severe seal
lol it crashed
unreal oyster
visplanes, drawsegs, solidsegs and openings
if any of them reach a certain amount, it crashes
part of making a fully vanilla map is making sure that doesn't happen, heh
severe seal
I think I just clicked Open Doors before it was done calculating
Clicking open doors seems to break some areas of the map :/
unreal oyster
hmm
this is what maps like BTSX look like with it https://i.imgur.com/ywR9GsT.png
no red areas since it's entirely vanilla compatible, heh
vocal crypt
why does it remind me of Dust2
severe seal
so how do I know WHY the red areas are red?
royal wave
I do not seem to have a visplane button, is that exclusive to vanilla formats?
unreal oyster
basically, if you have overflows, reduce the detail level
or
create pillars to block view
severe seal
yes but the question is....... from where?
unreal oyster
visplane overflows basically happen when the player can see too much
from where the cones of red appear to come out from
severe seal
ohhhhhhhhhhh
Some of these areas they won't be able to get to if the relevant doors are open anyway, I think
unreal oyster
for example, here
you can see that huge cone there
that's because it's a window from a pretty highly detailed area into a pretty highly detailed area
severe seal
right
unreal oyster
so i could remove the window and... http://i.imgur.com/TCIwDPC.png
course, my map's for boom, so i'm leaving the window there - boom doesn't have a limit
severe seal
Thing is, there's a door towards the north and another in the east, and there's no way the player can open both and then run to the spot where the problem is
unreal oyster
that's probably fine then
i would also advise you to check out https://www.chocolate-doom.org/wiki/index.php/Chocorenderlimits
severe seal
oh interesting, disabling doors gives me a few red dots
I didn't think my starting area was that complicated ๐ฆ
unreal oyster
chocorenderlimits is a source port which allows you to play through your level and identify points where it overflows
severe seal
oh cool
severe seal
hmmm
severe seal
cool
unreal oyster
it's a really useful tool for vanilla mapping
severe seal
can anyone here test my WIP and stream so I can watch you play?
that didn't sound creepyp did it? ๐
royal wave
I still wonder what causes this, as it doesn't actually have any impact on the map when played
zinc egret
I use the heat map colors instead
royal wave
whatever one builder uses
unreal oyster
probably ZDBSP then
zinc egret
That and I map Boom stuff minimum, tho some of my works do work in vanilla
unreal oyster
you can change it in the format configuration, try changing the nodebuilder and see what happens
zinc egret
I have a thing for ZenNode
unreal oyster
i think ZDBSP is generally regarded as the best for UDMF, but if it's giving you issues you can try switching it
royal wave
What's the difference between no reject and zero reject? >.>
Oh no it's not giving my any issues what so ever
Just through the nodes viewer, that's what shows up
unreal oyster
no reject means that no reject lump is made, zero reject means that a zero-byte reject lump is made
it makes no difference to ZDoom
unreal oyster
but in some ports (anything not zdoom-based, PrBoom+ nor Eternity) your map won't load without a REJECT lump
royal wave
it's infinitely thin too
unreal oyster
so a zero-byte one fixes that
also wat even
i guess nodebuilders just hate your map lol
royal wave
It runs fine though
unreal oyster
yeah, i'm pretty sure zdoom rebuilds nodes at startup lol
royal wave
One of these days I'll be finished with it
and then after maybe work on a more psychological horror map
or work on my gameplay mutator
but psychological horror sounds more fun to make. Like those creepypastas
shadow bone
I really want to do a good psychological horror game/mod/map
But having never been able to actually conceptualize such a thing properly, I'm forced to conclude that I'm not nearly fucked enough in the head to pull it off.
shadow bone
I certainly have the skill/knowhow for it. Laziness is a major problem. Most though, I want to do horror, but I can't think of how to properly convey horrific things, or even what kind of horrific things to do.
lavish hollow
Make sure to use lots of strobe lighting, the scariest thing you can have in a map is the constant threat of seizures
royal wave
It's not a matter of knowing what is and isn't fucked up, it's being willing to make yourself uncomfortable
Cali if you're willing, we could collaborate on something in the future
severe seal
lol
royal wave
Making good psychological horror isn't a matter of knowing what everyone else finds scary. It's knowing you're own fears, insecurities, and expectations, and conveying them in a different medium
And by fears and insecurities, not talking clowns or heights. Talking more challenging someone's mortality, sanity, and the concept of being.
lavish hollow
And addiction to cookies
shadow bone
I wouldn't mind doing a collab in the future.
shadow bone
Maybe we could pull Nash in, he and I hashed out some survival horror stuff a few years ago.
Never went anywhere though
royal wave
I'd like to work with Nash yeah
vocal crypt
Kevin Nash, you say?
royal wave
no
shadow bone
Nash Muhandes (spelling)
royal wave
Nash is a really gifted programmer who spends his free time working on doom mods
shadow bone
Veteran ZDoomer extraordinare
Not to mention audio guru
Has his own studio and in a couple bands
royal wave
Audio is very important
shadow bone
I've gotta tap him soon for an album I'll be mixing in the next couple weeks
royal wave
How do people collab on doom projects anyways, do we like make a github repository or something?
shadow bone
Repository, forum PM's, maybe a private Discord, google hangouts, whatever
royal wave
thought as much. Just my experience with doom mapping, there's no way to test a map without constantly repackaging all materials
shadow bone
Repackaging isn't really necessary, I've found. GZdoom and Slade load directories just fine.
royal wave
wait you can do that
shadow bone
yup
royal wave
Why am I last to figure these things out
shadow bone
lol
royal wave
external acs?
shadow bone
I guess check if GZDoomBuilder can load all resources from a directory, or just textures. The maps need to be in .wad files, but I think the rest can be in a directory.
If not, I'm sure the devs would be willing to add it
royal wave
yeah that's why I have concerns over how people do collaborate
especially maps.
Maps aren't built like code
unless that's more witchcraft I'm missing
shadow bone
Which I find weird, because UDMF is text-format, but apparently still can't be loaded directly.
royal wave
Maybe I can propose that as a feature
shadow bone
I think it's been [no]'d before... Lemme check
royal wave
requesting a more raw format to make it easier on repository collabs?
also that's a builder feature I'd be asking for
unreal oyster
the thing is, in the doom community "collab" doesn't really ever mean "two people worked together on this"
it mostly means "some guy made a bit of this, then got bored and another guy finished it with permission"
lol
so no, it's not witchcraft you're missing ๐
unreal oyster
well, no, it's generally the other way round lol
i.e. someone expresses interest in finishing a dead project
lavish hollow
Speaking of horror, I plan to include a survival horror mode in my mod, so maybe it could work well with your horror map :D
royal wave
Well I'm talking active collab, as in multiple people are working on it at the same time
Like JOM, but a lot more focused on actually working together
vocal crypt
so, one person does sprites, one person does writing and ideas, one person does mapping, one does coding?
hazy lantern
I'm curious how big the game will be after the update.
vocal crypt
something like htat?
hazy lantern
My XB1 is currently busy with downloading RE6 & the DOOM update.
royal wave
More or less @vocal crypt
royal wave
I'm thinking of tackling it like something you'd find on github where everyone contributes to everything
also hence my concerns for most non image related assets
shadow bone
IMO the biggest issue would be just letting someone know "I'm working on this map". Images, code, audio, etc, can all be easily handled via commits/pull requests since they're more granular.
royal wave
also the issue with editing maps comes in
can't have two people working on a map at the same time
shadow bone
that's kinda the point ๐ Agree for one person to work on a map at a time
With a small team it shouldn't be too difficult to maintain a "checkout" file or something
Easy at-a-glance so everyone can see "Oh, caligari's working on Map01, better leave that alone until he checks it in"
shadow bone
?
vocal crypt
maps*?
royal wave
Well if it's going to be a horror map, everything must be treated with the same fidelity
meaning textures, enemies, sounds, and map design
Map theory is very important in something that's meant to mape the player "feel"
shadow bone
True, but that can still be accomplished with multiple people working in passes. Quality assurance and all that
It's not like we'd have ztkx on the project or something ๐
royal wave
who's that
shadow bone
"Ztktx is famous for his ridiculously bad maps with couple of square rooms and thousands of monsters. Almost all of his maps are nearly unbeatable. He, of course, did all this for the lulz, but we kept believing that he'd improve. This community project started after said challenge, which I was sure zktkx would not accept."
shadow bone
I'd be down for it, sure
royal wave
I'll let you handle talking to Nash, as I'm just a skrub
shadow bone
lol, okay. I'll PM him.
royal wave
Well I say that because he's just more liekly to listen to you than me, not as a doubt of one's quality
If you get any word on it, we can make that discord and what not
shadow bone
Sure. I'll DM you if/when I hear back
royal wave
kk
shadow bone
Heh, looking back over my PM's it looks like it was almost exactly three years ago
Strange how these things go in cycles
royal wave
The last time you talked to him?
shadow bone
Yeah
royal wave
hmm
Thinking pretty hard what the theme could be
Pyroscourge has been a huge inspiration for my current map, but that one is more action horror than just horror
theming a psychological horror is a bit difficult
shadow bone
I've always been partial to Silent Hill
royal wave
I've never actually played them
I've watched lets plays
So I do get where you're coming from
shadow bone
Frictional Games has done well in their particular style of story-driven first-person horror. Penumbra, Amnesia, Soma.
When you say "theme" what specifically are you referring to, though?
royal wave
The issue I have with those is the lack of the ability to fight back
shadow bone
Yeah
royal wave
the horror of an enemy is lost when you know how to handle one
being able to fight back helps delay it
by theme, you've seen how mine is sort of tech gone bad related?
data corruptions and junk
shadow bone
Referring to Pyroscourge? Can't say I've seen it, actually.
royal wave
So far he's made my favorite doom horror mod ever
things rarely scare me, so that's an accomplishment
shadow bone
Ah, SUPER Natural, right?
royal wave
Yeah
shadow bone
Haven't played it but I've seen the thead.
royal wave
play it. it's good
shadow bone
Will do, for sure
royal wave
albeit, it's another "can't fight back"
but it rarely forces you into situations like that
shadow bone
So like you mentioned, that's the "data corruptions" and "tech gone bad" theming, whereas Silent Hill is often more "sexual body-horror"
royal wave
yeah stuff like that
the psychological conflicts of coping with the loss of someone
mine's more touching on the "Is this real" end of psychological
shadow bone
gotcha
A little while back I was toying with the idea of horror based on classic Doom tropes.
Like starting off with an E1-style run-and-gun, but then it gradually devolves into a survival-horror game
royal wave
that'd be cool and would work well as a start
severe seal
Okay, am I going crazy or.... are the only keyed options available Door actions? I could swear there are floors that lower that require keys...
royal wave
you can hide it behind an ACS function
severe seal
No scripting, just vanilla
royal wave
Vanilla? No I don't think so
unreal oyster
you're not going crazy, doors are the only thing that can be keylocked in <Boom
shadow bone
you could do mini-doors hiding switches for platforms and stuff
severe seal
My ceiling is too tall for that not to look stupid... I'll have to move them
royal wave
Going to make the discord room @shadow bone
inner zealot
What are ya'll talkin' about?
royal wave
map and game theory
inner zealot
Fun
lavish hollow
@inner zealot ZELDOOM
inner zealot
What about it?
lavish hollow
werez the gunz
inner zealot
I'm focusing on the map right now. I didn't make any progress last night outside of fixing the prop issue and some texture cleanup
lavish hollow
Groovy
inner zealot
Well, last night I did get the hub system set up, so, that
lavish hollow
Sweet
inner zealot
Oh, you know how the skill level was the problem with the props?
Apparently you can just turn off the skill menu
lavish hollow
That's cool, I didn't know that
inner zealot
And I hadn't planned on incorporating them, anyway
Oh, do you think I should make a titlemap based on the Zelda title screen
lavish hollow
Yeah, that'd be sweet
inner zealot
That was fast
inner zealot
I would, but I'm trying not to be distracted
severe seal
Well you're on discord so you've already failed ๐
inner zealot
Shut the fuck up.
royal wave
be nice
inner zealot
I don't mean it in a genuinely aggressive tone.
royal wave
you did a great job at conveying that
inner zealot
It's kinda hard to convey a tone of voice through text, though. So I'll chill out.
royal wave
how about "shut the fuck up :D"
zinc egret
Not sure if base or hell
zinc egret
Or the :V face
royal wave
emoticons exist
zinc egret
The predecessor to emojis
severe seal
So now that several people are here... anyone want to test a level? Just a single level?
inner zealot
+1 Respect to kevansevans
royal wave
because it holds a different context of what the image actually is
severe seal
I'll just leave this here.
zinc egret
Mediafire is starting to use anti-adblocker techniques
inner zealot
How so?
@lavish hollow I know I said I was just gonna finish one screen, but I'm actually gonna go ahead and close up this gap in the map, so. Give me a bit longer.
lavish hollow
Stfu
inner zealot
See? That's basically how we say "hello" to each other
vocal crypt
I thought it was "your mom"
severe seal
I think it's "Say hi to your mother for me"
inner zealot
How exactly do 3D floors work, again?
lavish hollow
You gotta use dummy sectors, or something
inner zealot
carmine badge
here's a preview of doom slayer hands on doom weapon sprites i've done some time ago, how do you like it guys
if anyone wants to download these sprites and use them ingame here you go
severe seal
Looks good
plush sapphire
Well done
severe seal
Just got feedback from someone on Reddit about my first map... going to make some changes and then re-post it ๐
warped rampart
Do you need to post this in every chat
vocal crypt
no you don't lad.
#179862926809759744 or #281555576134303744 would seem like the only two places it'd fit
royal wave
and even then you only post in one of those
severe seal
Hmmmm I assumed this was the best place since it's map-mod-dev
I assumed looking-to-play was for MP?
unreal oyster
@severe seal - they weren't talking to you, they were telling another guy off
the messages are deleted
royal wave
you'll know when we're letting you know you dun goofed
severe seal
I dunno man it's confusing around here, apparently the standard greeting is 'shut the fuck up' ๐
severe seal
Ah
royal wave
and we've been telling people not to use that as a way of greeting people several times over
lavish hollow
Wow lol
haughty flower
Crypto got banned? Sorry just got here.
unreal oyster
nope
unreal oyster
nah, shaders don't have access to enough data to do a source-like flashlight
unreal oyster
you can pass uniforms to it through ZScript
but you'd need a vertex shader to simulate the cone shape
and post processing shaders are fragment shaders
you need both types together for lighting like that
royal wave
I'm guessing QZDoom has neither
unreal oyster
it has fragment shaders
that's what a postprocessing shader is
"fragment shader" is basically a fancy term for "can move around pixels on the screen"
"vertex shader" has access to vertex data and can move a vertex' position
but importantly here it can simulate the cone shape you'd want
royal wave
Alright
unreal oyster
oh yeah btw - qzdoom just got merged into gzdoom actually
at least in git builds
so gzdoom has postprocessing too
royal wave
Cool
lavish hollow
Didn't they merge in 3.0?
unreal oyster
yes, but qzdoom never died
so it gained more new features which have just gotten merged
half adder
so I'm sitting up here atm working on some Magitek Doom and my latest addition has been focusing more on the Rune Sword which is basically the spell blade/counter weapon. I always wanted this thing to have a pretty intricate kit for it's moveset and man I feel like the latest additions are the type of shit that's really fun. So in general there's 4 buttons used for combat in this mod for any given weapon, Primary Fire, Alt Fire, Melee and Reload. Reload and Melee are pretty much static across most weapons except Melee Weapons and Magic Weapons.
Now Rune Sword has a really cool reload function which is guarding with a magic shield. So basically upon taking any hit with this shield which blocks damage from the front, it charges your weapon during the guard. Originally you could only hit reload again to send back a magic sword beam. But I added in the ability to use any of the buttons you would normally use. So if you fire during this period of time while its charged, it does a magic explosion slash. Or if you alt fire it does a slash then a fully invincible retreat. And if you melee it'll do a shield bash which dashes forward and stuns enemies.
I been playing around with it and it seems to work as well as I hoped and rewards parrying since these attacks are slightly better than the basic attacks while also being totally new moves which means more utility for this one weapon.
https://gfycat.com/LivelyInconsequentialAnglerfish lil example of the shield bash
severe seal
Poof! And he's gone!
severe seal
Are any of the TC's worth playing?
lavish hollow
Which ones?
half adder
there's a looooot of good TCs
severe seal
I was looking at the cacowards... or whatever it's called... there was an egyptian themed TC that they raved about but when I played it, it was awful
half adder
it really just depends on your taste when it comes to mods in general
there's a pretty broad spectrum, I'd say there's something out there for anyone
severe seal
well, I'll put it this way - I don't give credit for something being a lot of work ๐ It has to be fun.
half adder
Golden Souls is probably one of my favorites
half adder
yeah dude lol
lavish hollow
Return of the triad really matches the spirit of Rise of the triad
severe seal
That's awesome
half adder
its pretty neat, I love shit like that
half adder
it has very charming level design too
cinder moon
haughty flower
i need some quick help
whenever i add Weapon.AmmoUse to this code
it doesn't work anymore
it just doesn't want to even select the weapon
but if i use A_GiveInventory and A_TakeInventory, when the player has no more shells the weapon just infinitely fires
toxic dirge
I think that if you add Weapon.AmmoType2 to the code then you need Weapon.AmmoUse2 as well
if you dont wanna use the secondary ammo type then just do Weapon.AmmoUse2 0
@haughty flower
haughty flower
oh that's a thing
even after adding Weapon.AmmoUse2 it doesn't seem to summon the gun
toxic dirge
it doesn't seem to summon the gun
Well then that's more fucked up than I expected
DM me that code bb
I'll try to fix it
Oh wait
WAit
severe seal
@toxic dirge hooray for Undertale avatar in Doom chat ๐
toxic dirge
shhh...
haughty flower
Anybody working on any projects.
unreal oyster
@severe seal I suggest you ask for feedback on the doomworld forums
They'll give you some really good feedback, since a lot of them are veteran mappers
severe seal
@unreal oyster Thanks! I wasn't sure about whether or not I should wait to post it there once it was really done and tested
unreal oyster
Nah, you'll be fine, people post their beta maps there all the time
Best to get feedback before releasing than to release unfinished
severe seal
@haughty flower Oh it's a Doom 2 map, not SnapMap
unreal oyster
Btw, if you do release it on doomworld, note that it's for "limit-removing" ports
That's the term which means it's a vanilla map with potential visplane overflow errors
haughty flower
Why not just make maps for the new Doom?
severe seal
Because it's a lot less fun to make maps for
unreal oyster
Mapping tools are far less versatile and more tedious
haughty flower
Not really. SnapMap is pretty complicated to use sometimes.
severe seal
I couldn't find anything really fun when I was playing with snapmap and looking for maps. There were some impressive maps in the sense that a lot of work was put into them, but that doesn't necessarily translate into fun.
haughty flower
Well then thats just your problem. Ive had a blast playing peoples maps.
severe seal
Fair enough ๐
haughty flower
XD
severe seal
Anyway, making Doom 2 maps is a lot of fun, and you can do a lot very quickly. Plus I like the different kind of challenge it offers since you can have a lot more stuff at any given time.
haughty flower
Dooms modding community is amazing. If only they could give the new Doom tools like the old one had the game would be a massive hit.
severe seal
Maybe with the next one. SnapMap is a cool idea but by not releasing with an SDK they've really limited the ability to mod the game. (Of course, building a game with a public API in mind is not easy.)
haughty flower
Maybe.
unreal oyster
I'm not sure if that's true, myself - many people mod/map Doom not because of how powerful it is (because it really isn't that powerful unless we're talking about GZDoom), but because of the simplicity of the editing process
lavish hollow
^^
severe seal
Right, that too
haughty flower
Well. Im just happy I dont have to play Call Of Duty.
lavish hollow
For example, Quake has WAY less mods than doom, because Quake uses QuakeC, which while you can do a lot more with, it's much harder due to using C
unreal oyster
Also quakeC has issues in that it's a compiled language
lavish hollow
True
unreal oyster
I've heard that the quake community has a problem with "source hoarding"
Where modders don't release source code, creating a situation where only the "elite" know how to do impressive shit
GZdoom completely blocks out that possibility because Zscript/DECORATE is compiled at startup
So you have to release source
severe seal
Nice
Same reason everybody learned HTML and Javascript
@unreal oyster Think you could give some feedback?
On my level I mean
unreal oyster
Nah, I'm just about to go to sleep sorry
unreal oyster
Heh
severe seal
unreal oyster
I'm busy tomorrow, but remind me on Monday and I'll try to get around to it