#classic-doom-maps-mods
haughty flower
haughty flower
The staircase looks boring now.
safe timber
what about the huge spiral one leading to the bridge over the lava?
haughty flower
It'll take too long to traverse.
ashen saddle
@vocal crypt Well, SRB2 is just a big old Doom mod, but you don't actually need Doom to play it. It's on a modified version of Doom Legacy, so I figured it'd be close enough to show off here
unreal oyster
The -dev part of the name actually means you can post anything related to game development
We had a gamedev channel for a bit but we merged it since the use cases were pretty similar
ashen saddle
Cool, I'll keep showing off SRB2Kart then
ancient plover
best things on the wad in entire community
haughty flower
Whats a good Midi maker?
unkempt wadi
fl studio has a pretty intuitive piano roll; midi can be weird to set up on it but you only have to do it once then it stays that way until you reinstall. the only issue i have with it is i don't know how to do midi percussion on it. and the demo is free forever at the expense of loading saved work (except it doesn't matter if you just make midi with it because you can export the midi when you close it and then import it when you wanna work on it again)
zinc egret
I am stumped on my recent mapping development
unkempt wadi
i'm also having issues with my wad but it's with coding rather than mapping
safe timber
im making a snap map that makes fun of modern shooters
whenn you zoom in (its HAR only) it does 400 damage
but without zoom it does 10
without sprinting your 30% of the normal doom 16' movement speed
and some other stupid things
zinc egret
Chest high walls?
safe timber
course
just added regenerating health
if you aren't damaged after 5 seconds it starts regenerating
warped rampart
Make the movement speed without sprinting 1% of the normal DOOM movement speed
warped rampart
That’s around how 90% of modern shooters are
safe timber
what should the sprint speed be?
dude
at 1% you cant even move
ill stream it
to show you
haughty flower
@safe timber https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4yIxUOWrtw
zinc egret
Yep, I played that on my own channel
Surprised how well it did on views
Some of my older Doom 3 video walkthrough videos got unusually high views
warped rampart
It’s why my YT channel is basically centered around Doom and music
I enjoy making music, and people [mostly] enjoy it
I really love Doom, and I get plenty of views on those videos
unkempt wadi
can anyone point me to a writeup on or blatant ctrl+v of a multi-directional dodging script? the only one i can find that works and doesn't have missing information (i.e. variables defined in an actor's decorate code when it's just showing the acs) is compiled, so i can't even look at it to learn how it works.
i figured i'd ask here before bringing it to zdoom's "how do i" thread, since i have a bit of a bigger question for that anyway
forest niche
Im working on my first map and was wondering if I could get some tips on making my opening room seem less empty
prisma saddle
Would keep BSP based detailing to a minimum, it'll be handy if you want to edit it later on.
unkempt wadi
@forest niche post the wad or some screenshots here, i'm not much of a mapper myself but i know a thing or two about what you're asking
forest niche
http://i.imgur.com/dPyqt6x.png heres what I got so far, theirs a line of health bonuses and an armor behind the fountain
unkempt wadi
pillars, 3d wall decorations (like bits jutting out), and height variation of the floor and/or ceiling could all help with that
forest niche
ok, ill try that, maybe toss some armor bonuses on the sides too
well this has lead to an exciting new problem, im trying to make sorta sunken in rug with a pillar in the middle of the benches and well...
unkempt wadi
hmmm
forest niche
non-euclidian geometry, not very common in reception areas
unkempt wadi
i mean it would certainly attract patrons
forest niche
eh but then you have to madness to deal with and the possibilities of elder gods slipping thru, its a mess
http://i.imgur.com/djfM5jU.png heres what it looks like outside of 3D view
unkempt wadi
yeah i don't know how to deal with the issue technically; like i said i'm not exactly a mapper, more of an artist/designer
forest niche
ah, well guess I'll delete it for now and contenue working on the room in other places
maybe try to remember how to make a door
torn timber
There's a button to do it in GZDoom Builder
you just select the sector you want to become a door and then click "Make Door From Selection"
It'll let you pick the textures
and then it'll make a basic door for you that you can then edit
you can see it on the top of the UI while in sector mode
@forest niche
forest niche
im p sure my doom builder is crazy out of date tho so im not sure I have that
like zDoom wasnt dead out of date
I actually started this map like a good year may be 2 ago, then life happened
torn timber
I would definitely upgrade to the latest GZDoom Builder to make use of the tools and such that come with that
The latest can be gotten from here
forest niche
it shouldnt break anything right?
torn timber
it doesn't have an effect on your wad files
it's just the editor
worst you may have to do is change any preferences you changed with the other one
true galleon
karmic obsidian
So for GZdoom, if you have Doom 1 and 2 on steam, does it automatically know where they are, or do I still have to place an IWAD in the folder I put GZDoom in?
unreal oyster
this is better suited for #179862926809759744 , but i'd say it's better to keep the iwads in GZDoom's folder
karmic obsidian
K.
So how do you load up different wads?
Do they all have different exe files, or do you have to load them from the console?
unreal oyster
no, you can either use the command line or download a launcher
karmic obsidian
Could you DM me your preferred launcher?
unreal oyster
for the command line, you do something like
gzdoom.exe -iwad DOOM2 -file mod.pk3 or whatever
unreal oyster
i use this myself https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=46861
umbral sail
umbral sail
thanks man, it is basically remake of the first level from ArmageDoom, the first mod from the BrutalDoom author P.S Yes I asked him if I can do that
orginal
zinc egret
But why are you using PB?
umbral sail
PB?
worldly shard
I'm currently working on something called Tempest, which aims to take elements from Hexen and The Elder Scrolls and combine them into one mod. It will take place on four islands/archipelagos that you will essentially travel to by boat. Each island will be one level. If you're interested in this project and would like to help me with it, please let me know. Thank you. https://youtu.be/GyKTggRWunI
umbral sail
the rifle gets reskinned if you start the map with brutal doom. This is purley optional
zinc egret
I got tired of it so I made a mod from some of its assets
umbral sail
@worldly shard looks nice
I promise nothing but I would like to help in adding more details to stuff
worldly shard
As in mapping?
umbral sail
yes
worldly shard
That would be great. Thanks, I'll send you the first island map once it's done.
umbral sail
sure thing
zinc egret
Thanks
shadow bone
New alpha for Tranquility: https://github.com/caligari87/tranquility/releases/tag/v2017.07.04-alpha, mostly under-the hood changes but feels really good now.
vocal crypt
Tranquility?
shadow bone
My Receiver-inspired "fuck you pull that slide manually if you want to put a round in the chamber" mod.
shadow bone
The Zip works like a PK3
prisma saddle
Oh.
glacial skiff
Map hangs when launching in GZDoom 3.2 pre-110-g60cb457 for me, can anyone else try to launch and confirm
glacial skiff
Map has no textures anyway
vocal crypt
I figured
glacial skiff
"default", "default2", and "default3" are placeholders
What version are you using to test
glacial skiff
That's still telling that something about this version of GZDoom does not like TppFortress.wad
vocal crypt
also, yes it does hang a bit
but it doesn't stop the game all together
tested with 3.2
so while it's not in a unplayable state, it's probably something that peeps might complain bout
unless you add content to try to make that waiting justified
unreal oyster
some guy in the zdoom discord is saying that the exact same thing is happening with his map
it's just hanging
so it's not your problem i don't think
oh
vocal crypt
what is this fortress even about
unreal oyster
nvm
unreal oyster
you are the same guy who's saying that lmao
vocal crypt
lol
unreal oyster
whoops
vocal crypt
anyway
warped rampart
Speaking of which, can I get a link to the official ZDoom Discord?
vocal crypt
what is this fortress ev en aout @glacial skiff
shadow bone
It's on the forums
warped rampart
I only found ZDiscord when I was doing a search on Google
unreal oyster
https://zdoom.org/wiki/Main_Page it's here under "Room 101"
vocal crypt
is this storming it Wolfenstein style except DOOM style?
shadow bone
Well, then go on the ZDoom forums 😉
unreal oyster
do you have a ZDF account, btw? they'll ask you to change your nick to your nick on ZDF if so
warped rampart
I have the same name on ZDF as I do here
glacial skiff
@vocal crypt It's a level I'm designing for the three-team asymmetrical multiplayer component of my furry-themed GZDoom mod
shadow bone
The whole point of the Official ZDoom discord is that it's not public. Check in the Offtopic forum, it's a stickied topic.
unreal oyster
alright cool you can just join and not change username then heh
glacial skiff
If the ZDoom Discord isn't public then don't fucking put unlimited invites to it. :V
vocal crypt
Am I gonna be Mickey Mouse massacring villains from dreamworks and disney movies, the animal ones atleast?
glacial skiff
Also no, no TF inspiration, mostly Metal Gear Solid inspired
shadow bone
Fine, semi-public
unreal oyster
it's supposed to be public to ZDF users basically
shadow bone
Exactly
vocal crypt
what, are they some sort of Brotherhood of Steel?
unreal oyster
no, it's just to sync the communities
glacial skiff
unreal oyster
the official ZDoom discord should have the same members as the official ZDoom forums is the idea
glacial skiff
This map also fails to launch, I assume for the same reason
vocal crypt
link the wad
glacial skiff
(Screenshot was taken with an older version)
vocal crypt
lettuce try to test it
unreal oyster
it's not to be elitist, it's just to avoid turning into the Z-Discord 😛
glacial skiff
vocal crypt
whats the stigma against Z-Discord?
unreal oyster
it's a shitpost hell with basically no moderation
glacial skiff
It's run by a French pedophile who basically lets all the members-- yeah
vocal crypt
also, Diema the map doesn't even load, just brings me to Doom 2 level 1
so the game launches successfully
but
glacial skiff
map tppbase
glacial skiff
(You're supposed to launch these using wad names anyway)
glacial skiff
The Phantom Prologue, a reference to MGSV:TPP
vocal crypt
so that's all the metal gear inspiration?
glacial skiff
No idea what would make you come to that conclusion :^)
glacial skiff
Excuse you his name is Sparkles the Pusspuss
glacial skiff
:P
Mod is themed around a near-future alternate history where the Cold War never ended and technology stagnated in the mid-80's, you play as 2 furfags (third is multiplayer-only) from a private military company and a Russian antiterrorist task force (and SEAL Team 8 for the third)
vocal crypt
so 3 furfag deathmatch only?
glacial skiff
Ideally 6v6v6
glacial skiff
Stealth or action depending on player preference
glacial skiff
Notable features include nonlethal takedowns and Fulton recoveries, enemies that coordinate as squads, procedurally-generated objectives, limited base building, and a quasi-open-world design
vocal crypt
jesus
this some ambigious mod
by the time it gets finished Zandronum would've merged with GZDoom and GZDoom would have a proper MP
glacial skiff
If I'm lucky it'll be finished before the year the mod takes place in (2022)
vocal crypt
I'm ambigious as well
some Doom Day of Defeat mod
and Doom Fortress mod
and Doom Counter Strike doom themed
well
when I say Doom Fortress
more like a remake
vocal crypt
the Doom Counter Strike one I scrapped
because of the fact it was mostly done by someone else
not with a doom themed
but CS weapons in Doom
brb
glacial skiff
Screenshot from in-editor btw
(as I said, not missing much in the way of textures)
vocal crypt
back
the Doom Fortress Remake mod is, well, a remake of a mod named Doom Fortress
except it would've been for Zandronum
And "fixed" or "modernized" or crap like that
Doom Day of Defeat is basically Day of Defeat but it's in Doom
@glacial skiff
glacial skiff
Actually for me, it seems like GZDoom just hangs period no matter what map/iwad I try to launch with
Even launching doom2.wad causes a hang
vocal crypt
so it seems your computer is rubbish.
glacial skiff
i5-3450, GTX 980, 32 gigs RAM, launching from SSD
vocal crypt
well aren't you a rich mofo
glacial skiff
No lol
zinc egret
FX-8300, 16 GB RAM, RX 480 8 GB
vocal crypt
A4-6300, 8 GB RAM, 1 TB HDD
so yeah
that A4-6300 bottlenecks me six ways from sunday
I'd switch to Intel, but you know how Intel is expensive
that and reinstalling Windows
not fun
and me game list
but even then
I'd have to do that if I were to stick with the chipset of my current mobo
zinc egret
Bump to 16
vocal crypt
while that will help, my CPU is ass
it's a "APU" ffs
that's a term coined by AMD tho
glacial skiff
Fun fact, Intel integrated graphics are superior to AMD APUs
(re: general attempts at gaming)
vocal crypt
oh
that 3450 is end of life
at 3.1 GHZ
though it can be bumped to 3.5
no
max turbo
zinc egret
You know what my previous CPU was? An Athlon 2 X3 450
That was an upgrade from an Athlon 64 dual core 1.9Ghz
vocal crypt
before this computer was a shitty Toshiba laptop
1.3 GHZ
IIRC it was a APU as well
zinc egret
I still have my Radeon 9800 Pro in a box
prisma saddle
@shadow bone What're the controls for Tranquility?
shadow bone
Hold Altfire, Reload, or Zoom to change "context"
Altfire + Reload pulls the slide
Reload + Altfire grabs a new mag
Reload + Fire inserts/removes the mag
Stuff like that
prisma saddle
The sprite is very broken BTW.
prisma saddle
It's stuck in the centre for some reason and is always facing sideways.
shadow bone
Yah, that's normal
prisma saddle
So it's supposed to look like this?
shadow bone
Yep. old-school Rainbow Six style
Perspective sprites would be too impossible for this type of mechanism
prisma saddle
Would prefer some dedicated buttons for things TBH.
shadow bone
You say that now, but I assume you haven't played Receiver? 😛 Crab-hands for days
My system is actually an improvement, I promise.
shadow bone
@royal wave Well, seems this is a little hairier than I thought it would be
Can't quite make it work properly, probably due to some misunderstanding with how A_Refire and A_WeaponReady work
May be worth making a question on the forums about it.
shadow bone
Eh, I don't think that's necessary. It's probably just a logic thing I'm missinb because I'm tired
I feel like it'd be fairly easy with Zscript but I was trying pure DECORATE because I know think that's what you work in.
royal wave
Yeah not ready for a zscript mod yet. No clue how to start that, nor do I want to rewrite everything
shadow bone
Eh, getting started is easy. It's once you're too far in to go back that it really grabs you and whispers "gotcha" in your ear.
By then you're committed and you can't live without it
royal wave
I'm considering making my first zscript mod The Sky May Be. I did the first proper decorate port, but there's a lot to it that isn't identical
zinc egret
I am using DECORATE for backwards compatibility
worldly shard
Anyone know a site like realm667 that contains Hexen-like spells and magic?
weak lodge
found this screenshot on realm667
this looks more goldsource than gzdoom more than anything
shadow bone
Ooo, link?
unreal oyster
that's WolfenDoom: BoA
i.e. destroy your computer because the maps are too big simulator
nah, but seriously, good mod.
vocal crypt
if only I can find ww2 weapon sprites..
worldly shard
don't mean to spam here, but If you have experience with scripting, please let me know, i'm working on an rpg mod for doom, takes place on four remote and open islands with lush forests, remote houses, villages... Consult me for more details. This will be the last time i'll post about it here for a while.
worldly shard
Would you be interested @haughty flower
pallid yoke
Anyone know where I can find a good doomish teleport sound and a good doomish door open /close sound?
unreal oyster
pretty sure the doom opening door sound is royalty free, so you could just use it if you wanted, lol
well maybe not royalty free, but it's a stock sound
i get the two confused, heh
pallid yoke
hehe that would be kind of funny .. but I would like something that sounds like it was ripped from doom more or less, not literally XD
unreal oyster
yeah, that's understandable
prisma saddle
Layer some stock sounds and then bit crush it.
verbal cobalt
question, is there a way to make custom cheats on a wad?
royal wave
There's a really hacky way of doing it, but there's no official support for adding cheats
idk how it's done, I assume it's a an ACS trick
verbal cobalt
dang
vestal basin
Okay I'm like 99% convinced that shit like this is why The sky May be happened
haughty flower
@worldly shard sorry no :(( i'm bad at that kind
royal wave
Uh Sky May Be predates all of this
keen stirrup
Hey, guys so i started playing around with the boss eye spawner but i can't seem to make it spawn archviles that will drop keys.
Oh just spelt it wrong, though still can't get it to drop keys..
unreal oyster
can we see whatever code you're using?
unreal oyster
sure, put it in discord code blocks though (```)
keen stirrup
how do i do that?
unreal oyster
put it in a block of ```s like this:
```
code goes here
```
keen stirrup
and how do i do that?
keen stirrup
test
vocal crypt
there ya go
keen stirrup
"Your message could not be delivered because you don't share a server with the recipient or you disabled direct messages on your shared server, recipient is only accepting direct messages from friends, or you were blocked by the recipient."
vocal crypt
wat
keen stirrup
that what it said when i tried to post it
vocal crypt
@unreal oyster ?
unreal oyster
? just put it in here, you don't need to privately message it to anyone
vocal crypt
copy and paste code here
keen stirrup
it's not allowing me??
vocal crypt
ok...
keen stirrup
{
}
actor eyespawner : randomspawner replaces bosseye
{
DropItem "Eye" 255 255
}
actor archvile
{
DropItem "redcard" 255 255
}
{
DropItem "ZombieMan" 255 10
DropItem "ShotgunGuy" 255 10
DropItem "DoomImp" 255 10
DropItem "Demon" 255 10
DropItem "Spectre" 255 10
DropItem "Caco" 255 10
DropItem "LostSoul" 255 10
DropItem "Baronofhell" 255 10
DropItem "HellKnight" 255 10
DropItem "fatso" 255 10
DropItem "revenant" 255 10
DropItem "arachnotron" 255 10
DropItem "Archvile" 255 255
//weapons and items
DropItem "Backpack" 255 6
DropItem "clip" 255 6
DropItem "clipbox" 255 6
DropItem "shell" 255 6
DropItem "shellbox" 255 6
DropItem "rocketammo" 255 6
DropItem "rocketbox" 255 6
DropItem "cell" 255 6
DropItem "cellbox" 255 6
DropItem "chainsaw" 255 6
DropItem "shotgun" 255 6
DropItem "supershotgun" 255 6
DropItem "chaingun" 255 6
DropItem "rocketlauncher" 255 6
DropItem "Plasmarifle" 255 6
DropItem "BFG9000" 255 6
// health and armour
DropItem "healthbonus" 255 4
DropItem "ArmorBonus" 255 4
DropItem "GreenArmour" 255 4
DropItem "BlueArmour" 255 4
DropItem "Stimpack" 255 4
DropItem "Medikit" 255 4
DropItem "Radsuit" 255 4
// souls
DropItem "soulsphere" 255 1
DropItem "blursphere" 255 1
DropItem "InvulnerabilitySphere" 255 1
DropItem "Megasphere" 255 1``` DropItem "bluecard" 255 3
DropItem "redcard" 255 3
DropItem "yellowcard" 255 3
DropItem "blueskull" 255 3
DropItem "redskull" 255 3
DropItem "yellowskull" 255 3
}```that's all of it. (didn't let me do it in one big thing so i chop it up
vocal crypt
is it just the archvile?
keen stirrup
yeah
vocal crypt
well it's the only one with 255/255
keen stirrup
yeah that was for testing purposes.
unreal oyster
you're attempting to redefine the archvile, it won't like that
keen stirrup
to get it to spawn
vocal crypt
oh
unreal oyster
do this actor redKeyVile : Archvile {}
keen stirrup
(spawning works
unreal oyster
instead
vocal crypt
yw
vocal crypt
also, anyone know where to get WW2 weapon sprites?
zinc egret
ww-nazis mod?
haughty flower
@vocal crypt ask the wolfendoom guys if you may use them
zinc egret
WildWeasel may if you ask him nicely
keen stirrup
Heya it's me again, still playing around with the bosseye spawner, quick question how do i make the boss eye spawn another, and have it be already alearted? (i already got it spawning others)
unkempt wadi
so i added an alt fire to my mod's pistol to do a melee attack, and i used the same puff as the melee, but when it hits it's playing the gun's firing sound instead of the melee's hit sound. why and how can i fix this?
it also plays the expected sounds when it misses or when it hits a wall instead of a thing
royal wave
Can you show us your decorate code
twin mulch
uh, how big is the modding community on this server?
unreal oyster
kinda big, ya need help with something?
zinc egret
I am one
twin mulch
gonna need a lot of help
possibly
looking forward
I've wanted to make a game for a long time now, but my issue with Unity has always been that for what I want to make, it feels bloated, and I want the game to run on a Raspberry Pi Zero
well now that I've stopped caring about the idea of having a game to sell I decided I should use either the Doom engine or the Quake engine
and do a TMC
unreal oyster
ya know you can legally sell a game you make on the doom engine anyway?
twin mulch
YEAH
unreal oyster
provided it's for gzdoom
twin mulch
I found that out today
but I don't know if I want to use the Doom engine
I was thinking a basic Quake source port
does anyone here do
Quake stuff?
or is this not the place for that?
zinc egret
I don't know Quake modding.
unreal oyster
i don't know of any members with quake modding knowledge, no
twin mulch
uhh, hmm
I wouldn't mind using Doom, especially since it would absolutely run at 60 even on a RPi Zero
but you know, 3D models
unreal oyster
yeah, though you can use 3d models in gzdoom
from a newer model format, even
(md3)
vs quake which is mdl
royal wave
You can use the Quake engine as well if you want
But like what gut said you'll be hard pressed to find anyone here with quake modding knowledge
unreal oyster
oh yeah wait, Quake is under the GPL too
twin mulch
but 3D models are like, hacked in right?
unreal oyster
in gzdoom, they're a native feature
unreal oyster
they can be a bit finicky though, but it's generally not too bad
twin mulch
and also I don't know how much it'd affect performance
unreal oyster
it affects performance as much as drawing the map does, really
in gzdoom, everything is draw as tris anyway
a 3d model just adds to that list
meaning it doesn't really have too much of a performance effect
twin mulch
ah
royal wave
It'd be really cool to see the first GZDoom game
The drawback of id Tech 1 being used for games was it wasn't built to be future proof
So with GZD going gpl, means we could see a rise if indie classic fps games
twin mulch
if I could find a solid community for Quake modding
I'd do it in Quake in a heartbeat
but, you know, Quake modding is relatively dead
you get a lot of level packs sure but that's about it
royal wave
You can easily make Quake like maps in Doom
twin mulch
the thing is I want to make a full dungeon crawler action RPG
and, other thing is
I need Quake's rendering
twin mulch
I specifically like the way Quake does 8-bit rendering
and the games that replicate it like Devil Daggers
royal wave
GZDoom supports openGL 3
twin mulch
yeah but I'm talking about the software rendering
royal wave
There's a new software renderer too
Truecolor rendering
Not trying to discourage you
This is a doom server is all
royal wave
Mhm
twin mulch
I'm not trying to be a pain either I'm just trying to clarify
royal wave
Previously software was limited to palletes
Meant you were stuck with a set range of colors which could ruin sprites
Now it supports true color rendering, so you can make sprites deliberately 8 bit and it won't be compromised
royal wave
I don't think I can, but you can ask anyone else here with knowledge on the doom engine and it's source ports
@unreal oyster
Oh he's not here
Oh I know
@rocky cloud tell this guy about your project
rocky cloud
total chaos?
royal wave
Ye
rocky cloud
you making a game @twin mulch
royal wave
I just realized you could make Total Chaos a standalone game
twin mulch
Total conversion mod
rocky cloud
heres a vid of my mod https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fRDytfM9yY
I could make it standalone if I wanted 😄
royal wave
If that doesn't convince you how strong gzdoom is idk what will
rocky cloud
GZDoom
royal wave
You should totally do that man!
umbral sail
my brother didn't believe that total chaos is a doom mod
royal wave
No one does initially
rocky cloud
then I summoned a pinky demon
royal wave
Hahaha
royal wave
This is legit
twin mulch
are you fuckin kidding?
rocky cloud
indeed
hard elmBOT
Indeed!
umbral sail
twin mulch
I was so stunned when I saw this months ago
umbral sail
what actually happened to this outdoor map
twin mulch
I saw the Overgrowth teaser
rocky cloud
the design changed quite drastically to be more claustrophobic
mellow lava
can't wait to speedrun Total Chaos - if it's the kindof game where there's an ending
rocky cloud
that map didn't really transition well unfortunately so it got cut 😐
umbral sail
oh 😦
royal wave
Happens
umbral sail
I was really looking forward to play it
umbral sail
hmmm
mellow lava
any DL links available anywhere?
twin mulch
oh wow, with that tree branch you can see how low poly a lot of it is
rocky cloud
you can have models with thousands of polygons
its just when you drop 30 or so trees in one area it can be quite taxing
@mellow lava alpha here, http://www.moddb.com/mods/total-chaos/downloads/totalchaos-openalpha-022017-b
rocky cloud
haha, yeah, its pretty big, the whole finished thing is about 1.5
mellow lava
first gb doom mod am downloading in my life
royal wave
first ever gb doom mod actually
warped rampart
It should really say something about how much effort’s gone into it if it’s a gb
rocky cloud
10 years of my life... gone 😦
royal wave
Hey if you sell it, it'd be worth it
rocky cloud
won't be selling this one, but if it gains traction, got a unreal engine prototype I'll probably develop into something
royal wave
Ah that makes sense
twin mulch
@rocky cloud I'm just sayin that's some beauitful texturing
rocky cloud
thanks man 😃
twin mulch
also, I'm guessing this'll run on a toaster?
rocky cloud
nay, still needs a beefyish computer to run at 60
twin mulch
define beefy-ish
royal wave
Yeah it ran at like 40 on my 970m
rocky cloud
if you can run crysis, you can probably play it
twin mulch
oh jesus
royal wave
Doom doesn't use modern optimizations
twin mulch
don't the source ports?
rocky cloud
I was considering making a sprite version of it that runs on lower end machines, but its a lot of work to convert everything
royal wave
so the advanced stuff wadaholic is using is a bit more taxing than normal
twin mulch
like they use OpenGL and shit
royal wave
OpenGL doesn't automatically mean it;s going to run fast
rocky cloud
I don't think GZDoom was optimised to run this many resources at once 😄
royal wave
OpenGL is just a way to tell your computer how to draw shapes faster
not how to optimize those shapes
twin mulch
okay well
Doom could certainly handle a first person action RPG dungeon crawler in terms of mechanics
that I don't doubt
twin mulch
GZDoom
royal wave
classic
rocky cloud
there is very little you can't do in the doom engine, its just you need to weigh up how much time you want to invest in it, since it takes a little longer to repurpose it to something else
TheMIsterCat remade worms in doom
twin mulch
well I just want an engine that gets exceedingly good performance
and can run on a raspberry pi zero
rocky cloud
hmm, if mobile is what you're wanting to make games for, you can't really go wrong with Unity
if you were picking up something new that is
documentation is extremely good
twin mulch
and that's not a mobile device
rocky cloud
hmm, what is it?
twin mulch
you've never heard of it?
vocal crypt
isn't it a small computer?
twin mulch
single board computer
my target platform is the stripped down version of it
Raspberry Pi Zero
GZDoom can do 60 easily on it
twin mulch
why use Godot instead of the Doom engine to make a first person 3D game
especially when I need software rendering
and extreme performance
rocky cloud
hmm
no reason really, if gzdoom runs at 60 and does what you need then stick with that 😎
twin mulch
even MonoGame has trouble reaching 60 on the pi
you know
like, modern engines, even the optimized ones, aren't at that level
here's the important thing though
do you think I'd be able to get this look in GZDoom?
very similar to Quake's software rendering
twin mulch
oh lord
rocky cloud
when i tested it ages ago it didn't work, not sure if that has changed, but I'm pretty certain it doesn't run in software
twin mulch
but the OpenGL renderer wouldn't be able to get this look would it?
twin mulch
I could get it lower than 640x480 right?
rocky cloud
yep
twin mulch
320x240 would be fine?
rocky cloud
pretty sure you can
twin mulch
hmm alright
and I won't have the weird geometry rendering you get from the doom engine?
rocky cloud
weird geometry rendering? like the stretching you get from looking up and down in software?
twin mulch
yeah
rocky cloud
unfortunately not
prisma saddle
I think they're trying to make software not have that distortion.
twin mulch
but if I used the OpenGL renderer I wouldn't get that issue?
prisma saddle
Yeah, OpenGL rendering doesn't have the geo distortion issues.
prisma saddle
Yeah, I like that colour crushed software mod asethetic.
twin mulch
it says that the OpenGL palette is 32-bit
but I could limit it?
I'm sorry for all the questions
rocky cloud
you can get around it
twin mulch
also all the GZDoom links are taking me to the ZDoom page
prisma saddle
Yeah, they have a tonemap option that allows you to crush it down to the 256 colour pallete.
twin mulch
oh it's on that site
okay
but can I choose my own custom pallete?
should be able to do that right?
prisma saddle
Pretty sure that's the case,
twin mulch
I've fucked around in GZDoom before, god there are a lot of settings
twin mulch
perfect
royal wave
by that I mean when you actually make the sprites, not informing the engine what a specific saturation of white/black means in color
the advantage of 32bit color versus a set pallet is you can get richer shades of the color when you use lighting effects
using Doom's vanilla pallet causes more jagged shading when light changes
twin mulch
yeah, because it has to be matched to the palette no matter what
I can't tell if Devil Daggers even has a limited palette
it obviously does in terms of the texturing and models
but it does have lighting?
but it does kind of have that jagged shading/jumps in color
idk what do you think
royal wave
link?
royal wave
that looks like an artificlial pallet
twin mulch
artificial pallete?
as in not forced by the renderer, just a pallete stuck too when making textures and stuff?
royal wave
yup
twin mulch
yeah that's what I thought
I think someone's even said before that's how it's done
so wait
does the lighting maintain the illusion by having the colored lights also match the pallete?
royal wave
you can easily fake it by making the lighting a more harder gradient than smooth
royal wave
like if you've every seen minecraft played at low settings, each block will have it's own lighting
mellow lava
gonna play that alpha 2
twin mulch
anywhere that I could read up on rendering and lighting and how they're handled in the doom engine and all that?
royal wave
Vanilla lighting is a static value given to the sector
from values of 0 - 256
so if you have an image editor that lets you adjust brightness on a scale of 0 - 256, you have a pretty good idea how doom's lighting works
royal wave
You know how doom's maps are 2D and made up of basic shapes?
twin mulch
I imagine the value ranges in modern lighting are much much higher?
yeah kind of, people say it's not true 3D but I don't quite understand what that means
royal wave
There's no real Z axis is what they're saying
A real 3D engine has XYZ coordinates for each corner of any shape you see
twin mulch
and that's why you can't have rooms above rooms?
royal wave
Exactly
twin mulch
so does it really just take a 2D map and stretch it into 3D?
royal wave
No it is not
It's using a method call Binary Space Partitioning
BSP for short
I can provide a video that explains the difference between raycasting and bsp rendering
twin mulch
uhh, would it have any use to me in attempting to mod?
royal wave
Not for doom particularily
Quake it might be important as that still uses BSP, and BSP optimization is important for 3D games
Doom's BSP render is just stupidly efficient, and accidentally really really fast
So there's less worry about making a map that causes a computer to lag
royal wave
yes it is
twin mulch
huh, would you mind explaining?
royal wave
I'm not super familiar on it
but BSP rendering basically instead of checking for visibility of what's infront of the screen, it sort of already has a rough guess of what it needs to render
it just happens the map compiler organizes the visual nodes in the best way possible
which is Doom engine specifically
twin mulch
so it needs to guess what it's supposed to render next and it just turned out that the map compiler was perfect
mellow lava
playing that 'tc_super_alpha02b.pk3' double-tapping wasd is an interesting mechanic to be used during speedplay
royal wave
yeah pretty much
twin mulch
so he didn't have to worry about it further?
lol
the engine actually works even better than I thought it did
royal wave
Yeah there were a few further optimizations he had to add later on
just how it checks what it needs to render was really good
Quake also had a few "accidents" kinda
The fast inverse square root formula is something that's frequently credited to carmack even though that wasn't his formula
this trick is so god damn weird that even in quakes source code there's a message of "what the fuck?" in it
twin mulch
what Carmack just says "Even I don't fully understand this"
I do know that the formulas that were used as the basis for BSP were developed waaaaay way back
royal wave
mhm
twin mulch
and mostly disregarded as useless when originally presented
royal wave
So in short the fast inverse square root formula is basically 1/Sqr(x) without using any sort of division
and the way it's accomplished is just like.... how the hell did someone find it in the first place?
because it requires a very specific number to work
float Q_rsqrt( float number )
{
long i;
float x2, y;
const float threehalfs = 1.5F;
x2 = number * 0.5F;
y = number;
i = * ( long * ) &y; // evil floating point bit level hacking
i = 0x5f3759df - ( i >> 1 ); // what the fuck?
y = * ( float * ) &i;
y = y * ( threehalfs - ( x2 * y * y ) ); // 1st iteration
// y = y * ( threehalfs - ( x2 * y * y ) ); // 2nd iteration, this can be removed
return y;
}
0x5f3759df is the magic number
twin mulch
is that the actual source course?
royal wave
that's the actual code
royal wave
It's not perfect though
it only get's close to what the actual number is if you did it properly
but it gets so damn close, it's the same as arguing 0.99999999 might as well be equal to 1
twin mulch
the doom wiki should be good for understanding the renderer and colors right?
royal wave
Mmmm maybe
I don't think you should be concerned about doom's rendering, but more what you make for your TCM
twin mulch
because one of the primary things I'm trying to achieve is a look
it's literally one of the core goals
royal wave
That's probably going to come down to your artistic abilities and not how doom handles rendering
royal wave
I personally believe you don't need to worry about Doom's rendering engine
twin mulch
but the look I'm trying to achieve there is very much affected by an understanding of rendering and old game rendering, no?
very informed, so to speak
if it doesn't directly follow it
royal wave
I think it's more understanding what the tools do that you are provided than the nitty gritty of it
twin mulch
there's no Doom source ports that run on a PS1?
mellow lava
pretty sure there's psx doom, not sure if can make custom maps on it
twin mulch
now that I'm going back and watching footage of Doom on PSX, I can't help but think
"shouldn't Doom run better on this?"
mellow lava
I found a way to skip the start cutscene in Total Chaos Alpha2, not sure if it's been reported & whatnot
open inventory, close.
good glitch to be used during speedruns, but might be patched soon if not already? 🙂
got thru the 1st locked door once the cutscene should of actually ended 😮
royal wave
Wasn't until PS3/360 we got a console port of Doom that could run properly
mellow lava
Total Chaos: It's possible to use the inventory while walking around. To do so you need to open a door which has some kind of transition (screen blacks out) while the inventory is open
twin mulch
yeah of course
damn shame
I remember when that 360 port came out too, everyone was pleased with it
proper 4 player and everything
unkempt wadi
@royal wave like seven million years ago (last night) i asked for some help with weapon sounds and you asked to see my decorate code, i'm about to boot my comp up so do you want the full code for the weapon and puff or just the altfire state and puff
royal wave
Uh yeah. Full code please if possible @unkempt wadi
unkempt wadi
alright, gimme a sec i'll put it on pastebin
oh wait i just looked up the parameters a_custompunch takes and i didn't specify a meleesound i'm an idiot
sorry i guess it just threw me because the puff defines an attacksound
royal wave
Aha, glad you caught that
unkempt wadi
okay where/how do i define a new titlepic because all of the answers i've found are like "just put it in your wad and it'll do it for you!" and it definitely didn't do that
vocal crypt
IIRC you gotta rename it to the name of the titlepic in say DOOM 2
don't hold me on that
warped rampart
I think it needs to be named TITLEPIC
unkempt wadi
it is named titlepic
vocal crypt
might need to define it in GAMEINFO?
vocal crypt
IIRC GAMEINFO would be in MAPINFO, TITLEPIC might be MAPINFO.
don't hold me on that again
twin mulch
Okay so, if I make a TC in GZDoom, how difficult would it be to get it to run in other engines?
unreal oyster
other doom engines, or other engines entirely like Unity?
twin mulch
other doom engines
unreal oyster
kinda
some things will still work, but GZDoom has a lot of specialised stuff
that is either available in a different way in other engines, or just not available
vocal crypt
Might work in Zdoom or Zandronum
twin mulch
do you think, if ported, GZDoom would run well enough on a PS1?
vocal crypt
Can't handle alot of monsters
unkempt wadi
theoretically if you stuck with the psx's limitations then gzdoom might run on it, how well it would run is another can of worms that i don't think i can open; i don't know anything about how much power gzdoom would require if it were stripped down to the psx's capability's, or how strong the psx even is
i'm going to venture to guess, and this may be out there, but i don't think you could run nuts.wad
royal wave
it barely handled vanilla doom
twin mulch
it barely handled vanilla doom because it was a shit port
royal wave
PSX doom did have to take stuff out in order to run, despite the lighting effects
twin mulch
are you sure, think about the most impressive PS1 games
royal wave
yup
twin mulch
even considering Spyro, Crash, and MGS?
royal wave
probably because it was a PC game designed to run on PC's
unkempt wadi
was psx doom true-3d or still raycast?
royal wave
it didn't run doom because it was a shit port, it didn't run doom because it was still a bit too much to handle
Doom isn't raycast
unkempt wadi
not raycast, sorry
royal wave
that's a common misconception
unkempt wadi
you know what i mean tho
royal wave
yes it was still using that method of rendering
unkempt wadi
followup question: would psx doom have run better or worse if it used true 3d
royal wave
It's not a question of if it used true 3D
twin mulch
probably better
royal wave
it's more access speeds and optimizations
they had to beef up the PS1 just so Crash Bandicoot didn't break the PS1
twin mulch
@royal wave how did they manage to get Quake II running on it at about the same performance then?
royal wave
Math my good friend, math
twin mulch
but you're saying it could barely handle Doom
royal wave
Yup
Just because it's 3D, that doesn't meant the math is automaticaly more complicated
Okay so let me explain the differece in BSP rendering between Doom and Quake
Doom BSP rendering can only merely guess. it has to use the BSP tree and travel up and down it every frame to find out what is and isn't rendered
Guessing takes up more performance than knowing
Quakes BSP utilized what's known as view portals
royal wave
I'm explaining hold your damn horses
twin mulch
go on, although I don't know if I'll understand
royal wave
When you compile a BSP map, it creates invisible splits in the map geometry
These splits are called nodes
Doom's nodes only know where you are
Quakes nodes know where you are and what you can see
When you compile a quake map, it checks for visibility across every single node in the game from nearly every possible position
that way when it renders, it doesn't have to check for visibility, it knows
and knowing is faster than guessing
Hence why quake ran faster, because it used faster rendering tricks
Example of Source nodes
as a limit to this trick, all quake maps have to be built like a box. If it can't tell what part of the map is inside, it can't make accurate splits
unreal oyster
yeah, that limitation goes through to source even
if any of the map goes into the void, the map performs way worse and lighting doesn't work as well
royal wave
Also brushes require less rendering effort than a plane
and everything in doom is handled like a plane
unreal oyster
yeah, in their respective software renderers
doesn't matter too much on gzd hardware though
unkempt wadi
so getting a psx to run doom reasonably-well wouldn't just require porting the engine, but rebuilding how it fundamentally functions?
unreal oyster
it would require utilising the PSX GPU
which the doom renderer doesn't at all
that's the root of the issue
Quake 2 uses hardware acceleration on PSX
unkempt wadi
so they just made a single, terrible decision
unreal oyster
since Quake was when they started using the GPU for doom engine games
nah
they made a decision that'd save money
unkempt wadi
oh, true
vocal crypt
So really, it's just that the PSX version of Doom is underpowered to save money?
unreal oyster
it's not really about the differences in BSP, all of that stuff is correct, but it's the lack of acceleration on Doom PSX that really slows it down
like, you can check the difference between a source port with an unlocked framerate (prboom+ for example, since ZDoom sw renderer is not really the original renderer) and glquake
and even on your new (compared to 1993) computer, GLQuake will run faster
that's the difference
twin mulch
yeah okay
yeah writing up an entirely new renderer just for the PS1 port would've literally been burning money
the PS1 was powerful enough to handle it at a decent framerate so, that was the best decision
vocal crypt
I'm just waiting for Zand to "combine"? With GZDoom so freedom is realized or something
er
unreal oyster
it was never anything
it was an informal discussion
discussing something that could happen
vocal crypt
welp I've been thinking of a lie then
unreal oyster
you haven't been thinking of a lie, you've just been taking an informal discussion too seriously
royal wave
it could happen, but that would be like GZDoom 5.0
twin mulch
is a hardware accelerated 8-bit renderer possible?
unreal oyster
yeah, in fact it's in gzdoom already as a tonemap shader
specifically tonemap: pallete
it just forces every color returned by OpenGL to its nearest color in the pallete
twin mulch
good
so, hmm
no real reason to use Quake then, I don't think?
GZDoom is already using openGL or whatever right?
unreal oyster
there are reasons
mainly that its map format is true 3d
building 3d architecture is a pain in gzdoom
twin mulch
would it hinder performance?
unreal oyster
you mean 3d architecture in gzdoom? nah
twin mulch
I don't even know if I want proper 3D architecture because, you know
most dungeon crawlers don't have areas above areas, each level is done as its own map
and if there's a pit it takes you to the level beneath
royal wave
trust me, you're doing something way way way wrong if your doom map is causing performance issues if you're not even trying
but the frustration of designing a doom map to look like quake architecturally is there
it can be done, but it takes better understanding of the tools at hand
unreal oyster
yeah
though, in comparison, gzdoom makes it look easy, considering this exists https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/92574-dimension-of-the-boomed-early-alpha/ 😛
royal wave
there's some maps out there that you wouldn;t know any better if you just saw the screenshots
yeah there's one
unreal oyster
keep in mind - that's in Boom format 😛
royal wave
There's massive documentation though
royal wave
yeah you can use those
zinc egret
http://www.moddb.com/games/doom/addons/friends-house I made a 90% accurate version of my long time friend's house, even he was surprised at the accuracy of it.
@Modders
pearl sundial
lol
zinc egret
lol no
zinc egret
It would be more 64x128 with a screen
zinc egret
The basement is underneath his bedroom area so I had to do something so all was usable in a 2.5D spacing
pearl sundial
niice
royal wave
inb4 mass murdering charges
vocal crypt
Columbein
zinc egret
This was from 2014 lol
royal wave
SIGNS OF A KILLER IN THE MAKING
vocal crypt
FOX NEWS, CALL OF DUTY TRAINS YOUR SON TO BE A SOLDIER
pearl sundial
columbine
zinc egret
I started working on a replica of my own home but I never finished it
vocal crypt
you couldn't handle the mental training
zinc egret
pearl sundial
ew
zinc egret
Yes, I DO have those posters
pearl sundial
ew
vocal crypt
in my DOOM?
zinc egret
let me see where the normal screenshots are
pearl sundial
do you have a life
pearl sundial
lol no
zinc egret
No, I'm American
vocal crypt
why do you have a union jack flag flying then
zinc egret
My little brother (21) likes 1D lolol
vocal crypt
tf is 1D?
pearl sundial
oh no
zinc egret
One Direction