myself, i have no problem with downloading large mods, but the problem you get with a lot of the doom community (and other retro game communities) is that a lot of them are stuck in the past when it comes to things such as PC specs
#classic-doom-maps-mods
unreal oyster
so an unfortunate amount of the community gets hung up on mod size being 10s of megabytes
molten tide
U can always use 7zip
From 70mb to 30mb
The drawback is sound lagging and longer loading time
Most mod takes under 5 sec to load
People will start to complain if its takes more
hazy lantern
KVP9C7VX - SnapMap
Just finished this. Try it, if interested :>
SP only
proper shuttle
Lmao saving bandwidth in tyool 2016
dawn saffron
drakonis, same thing here
proper shuttle
Nobody's this catty about filesizes in the community nowadays
molten tide
What if I make 1gb mod
unreal oyster
Drak, there are plenty of people in the Doom community who refuse to update their age old PCs, so some people are really quite pissy about filesize
It's a problem that plagues most retro gaming communities
I think graf was talking about dropping OpenGL 2 support for GZDOOM which would be a no brainer for most engines but since some people in the Doom community are still on XP, it's a bit of a dillemna
unreal oyster
queen hare
@unreal oyster thats pretty cool how did you manage it?
outer crescent
How do you make skyboxes in gzdoom builder?
unreal oyster
you talking about skyboxes that exist on the actual map?
in that case, all you have to do is build an area with a SkyViewpoint actor in it
outer crescent
yeah, i tried doing that but nothing is working
unreal oyster
you willing to send the wad?
outer crescent
sure
unreal oyster
cool
unreal oyster
uh, that wad hasnt got an area with sky in it
unreal oyster
got it working.
outer crescent
yay
unreal oyster
try this
what i did is removed the tid from the skybox viewpoint (you don't need it) and then removed the skybox picker (you dont need it)
outer crescent
ah
unreal oyster
then i used F_SKY as the skybox ceiling
open up the wad to see how i got the skybox on the wall, its a bit complicated
unreal oyster
seams?
unreal oyster
use something like this if possible
instead of the default doom 2 ones, which don't tile vertically
outer crescent
how would i add them to doom builder?
unreal oyster
you need to download SLADE 3
outer crescent
ok
unreal oyster
then you can add the texures in and use them in the skybox sector
once you've downloaded the program, tell me
outer crescent
ok i downloaded it
unreal oyster
ok, close doom builder then open the wad in SLADE
outer crescent
doen
outer crescent
yea
outer crescent
unreal oyster
they need to be at the bottom, move them with CTRL-D
and CTRL-U
and make sure TX_START is above TX_END
outer crescent
unreal oyster
hit this button, and import the skybox files
make sure they are in between the markers
unreal oyster
convert to png
unreal oyster
doom wad lump names have a name limit of 8 characters
rename the ones in the lump to be like SKYN, SKYE, SKYS, SKYW, SKYT and SKYB or something
outer crescent
unreal oyster
alright, now save and close that wad
outer crescent
ok
unreal oyster
then reopen it in Doom builder
unreal oyster
yes you can, its really easy
just import it into the wad, make sure it's not in between any markers
and rename it to D_RUNNIN
which will make it replace the original song
unreal oyster
you can use a zdoom feature called MAPINFO, which is generally preferred, but if you want to learn about that i'd advise you read the wiki
anyway
in doom builder, what you want to do, is modify the skybox sector so that it is 512x512x512
then set the textures up so they connect together seamlessly
then move the skybox viewpoint to the very middle
and play around with its height if you want
outer crescent
outer crescent
unreal oyster
when you're done with the sector
it should look something like that
if it doesn't work, feel free to send the wad over
outer crescent
unreal oyster
alright, now set all the wall textures and floor textures to the ones you added in
make sure they seam together
unreal oyster
yeah, just go to the menu where you set the flat, and use the rotation dial
you cant rotate wall textures though
unreal oyster
wanna give me the wad, i could attempt to fix it
outer crescent
outer crescent
why are there 2 viewpoints
unreal oyster
i dunno, i fucked something up
use that one
also, the midi file isn't in there
no idea why
hard stratus
Hi! I've been hit with some inspiration for a doom map... but I haven't done it since middle school and forget everything.... I'm starting with making sprites. but idk what program to use now or how to go about it 😮
and MSpaint in windows 7 doesn't seem to use the right cyan and I can't find good resources for the current day and age D:
It's 11pm in my timezone and gotta sleep, but if anyone can help me, please, please pm me. I'll make it worth your effort with my effort :D
I got everything drawn out and planned, just need to put it into a computer 😃
unreal oyster
i'd recommend PAINT.NET or Gimp for free programs for sprite making
make sure you use this palette.
hard stratus
oh! why didn't I think of that 😛 this is the pallet right?
unreal oyster
yep
hard stratus
also, what do I save in, and should I bother exporting using SLAD3?
unreal oyster
also, if you export as png, you dont need to do the cyan thing
hard stratus
ohhhhhh
unreal oyster
zdoom can read png format
hard stratus
That was tripping me up so hard
unreal oyster
if you are mapping for all source ports, you'll need to convert
but that is just a right click in slade
hard stratus
oh cool! btw, if I have some images with colors outside of that pallet, is there a way to palletize them automatically?
idk if I should use ZDOOM or Zandorum
hard stratus
ah I see 😃
unreal oyster
you will almost always have to do some cleanup though
unreal oyster
most non-palette stuff looks bad when converted unfortunately so some cleanup is almost always necessary
hard stratus
yeah. I'm using very basic dithered pastels from some old projects I never finished
Is it still possible to do cyan?
hard stratus
ah ok. I just do that when importing?
I'm new to slade. It looks a lot like the editor I used to use (WX-something?), but it still trips me up a tad lol
(thanks a ton btw. I've been so stuck just trying to get off the ground)
hard stratus
yeah. I was told I should use SLADE3 because a lot less errors and curruption
hard stratus
is there a way I should set up paint.net?
I'm trying to do a basic test. :)
and I'm so grateful for the help 😃
hard stratus
Oh, I mean pixels/sqr inch, save as bitmap?, height/width in pixels. I havent done this for a while. Don't know what is or isn't compatible 😦 .
unreal oyster
keep it to powers of 2 and you should be fine
outer crescent
the skybox is working! Thanks for the help gutawer
How do you make keycard doors?
hard stratus
😄
hard stratus
I feel like a noob~
Idk how many sprite panels I need to make or what to name them. Any good resources online?
That show how many to make?
unreal oyster
https://www.doomworld.com/vb/post/1666922 contributed some code to this project, figured i'd share it here
equivalent zdoom forum link there
outer crescent
is it even possible to import obj files to doom?
unreal oyster
Yep, GZDOOM Builder has an "import wavefront.obj to terrain" option
You can also export the current map as a wavefront.obj
outer crescent
awesome
shame that the obj i was trying to import is too big to import so it crashes
unreal oyster
fucking zdoom, i've spent around 8 hours doing nothing but ACS scripting for a fucking pressure plate for that project i posted about yesterday
you'd not think a pressure plate wouldn't be difficult to make, but ZDOOM
proper shuttle
zee dume
novel isle
ZDoom(TM)
unreal oyster
so who's done anything for the Vinesauce mapping contest?
unreal oyster
doom only
steel onyx
Doom
tawny lion
classic?
unreal oyster
yea
steel onyx
Yeah
queen hare
@unreal oyster is this the doom equivalent of portal
prisma saddle
Looks like fun to work on Goots.
unreal oyster
Yea
queen hare
oh sweet
unreal oyster
I can even make it work with monsters if I want to, but I generally disable that on mine
prisma saddle
I'm kinda envious that you get to work on it Goots.
unreal oyster
It is quite fun to see a flying Cyberdemon lol
And zehatsu, if you check out that zdoom forums thread, if you have anything to offer then you can
prisma saddle
It would probably be art because that's all I'm good at.
unreal oyster
The way I got my code into the project is just by showing Jimmy a demo map
Then he liked it a lot and decided it should be put in the wad
Also zehatsu the project does need some texture work done, so if you want to have a go at making a pressure plate we need a texture for that
It does use a nonstandard palette though so you'd need to extract that from the wad
It'll be called PLAYPAL in the wad
tawny lion
hi
dawn saffron
so if you liked the original one, give this one a shot!
hi arhum
did you play the original spladoom map?
dawn saffron
it's recreation of splatoon gameplay in doom
tawny lion
aww
dawn saffron
i mean
tawny lion
i have shitty internet
dawn saffron
i think you can run around it
tawny lion
?
dawn saffron
but splatoon is a multiplayer only game
tawny lion
any bots?
dawn saffron
in snapmap?
dawn saffron
yes.
queen hare
just wondering did you guys see that splitscreen .pk3 file on a forum like ages ago?
queen hare
hey kinda new to modding anyone know where to point me to go to start learning some stuff
unreal oyster
depends, how new exactly are you?
queen hare
done a little map editing here and there and i do program other stuff in my spare time however haven't had a chance to do any of that in doom
Zdoom to be exact
unreal oyster
which languages?
unreal oyster
well if you know a C-based language ACS won't be completely alien to you
queen hare
yeah i was opening so other Pk3's to have a gander and it looks pretty simillar
unreal oyster
C# is more similar to Java than C in a lot of ways but you shouldn't have many issues with it
queen hare
ah ok
unreal oyster
for example if im not mistaken in C# this is the basic structure of a program
using System;
namespace HelloWorld
{
class Hello
{
static void Main()
{
}
}
}
yeah thats pretty much it
unreal oyster
in C you do this
using namespace std;
int main() {
return 0;
}
public class HelloWorld {
public static void main(String[] args) {
}
}
thats java
queen hare
yeah thats a little more foreign to me but i can kinda tell whats happening
unreal oyster
so you can see that C# is more java-like than C
although java is still a c-based language
queen hare
yeah i get what you mean
btw @unreal oyster did you see that splitscreen.pk3 floating around the web?
unreal oyster
nah
unreal oyster
ACS is more simple than both of them since it doesn't run anything on startup
#include "zcommon.acs" //This must be done for zdoom, acs comes from hexen so if you are making hexen maps you don't need this
script 1 (void) {
//do stuff
}
i would recommend reading that tutorial though
the other language for ZDoom is DECORATE, which is far more annoying to use
queen hare
yeah i think i used that once to make a tree in a doom map
took me forever
was not pleasant
unreal oyster
there is also another language for zdoom which might eventually come out maybe called Doomscript
which would replace both ACS and Decorate
if you've ever used the unreal engine, you'll know what doomscript does
unreal oyster
but basically ALL ingame scripting would be done with doomscript, so level events/enemy ai and everything else would be done with that language
queen hare
sounds cool when will it come out?
unreal oyster
unreal engine used it's own UnrealScript from the original Unreal to Unreal Engine 3 but in 4 it was replaced with C++
when will it come out?
nobody really knows
queen hare
fun...
unreal oyster
the lead developer of ZDoom is kinda gone right now so not much progress is being made on the engine internals
zdoom does get updated constantly but anything really serious needs Randi's approval
and Doomscript comes under that
unreal oyster
especially because after even finishing doomscript, the entire game would have to be rewritten into doomscript
all enemies are currently written in DECORATE but they would be rewritten into doomscript when it releases
queen hare
yeah one massive pain in the arse by the sounds
So just a curious question?
say for example i wanted to add a new option on the main menu how would i go about doing that?
unreal oyster
MENUDEF
queen hare
right thanks
unreal oyster
but yeah ACS and DECORATE are kinda annoying to work with
this is my code for zdoom springboards, like portal 2 aerial faith plates
queen hare
ok whats a TID sorry for my ignorance
unreal oyster
thing id, you set them on a thing which allows the engine to access it by number
queen hare
do players have a TID then?
unreal oyster
if you give them one, yea
script "Give Player TID" ENTER {
Thing_ChangeTID(0, 999);
}
that will give all players entering the level a tid of 999
queen hare
yeah
unreal oyster
the things previous tid
unreal oyster
with an ENTER script 0 means the activator thing's tid
unreal oyster
because if the thing doesn't have a tid, ActivatorTID() will return 0 which obviously means "everything"
but in some functions, 0 means "The activating thing"
queen hare
right
unreal oyster
so it can get a little messy
queen hare
yeah how can you tell the difference?
queen hare
right
unreal oyster
but for example if you need to refer to an actor that hasn't activated the script and also doesn't have a TID, you're basically shit outta luck
queen hare
can't you assign the actor a TID then?
queen hare
ah right
unreal oyster
that's really where doomscript would help, since with doomscript actors could interact with scripts
meaning that you can see if an actor is in a certain sector, and then do something to it
unreal oyster
cutscenes are totally possible with ACS
queen hare
yeah I figured it was just an idea i had
queen hare
make do with what ya got eh
unreal oyster
remember if you have any questions go ask them on forum.zdoom.org
doomworld forums can also help but they aren't zdoom centric
i think the majority source port on doomworld is PrBoom+
queen hare
ok thanks, really appricate the help
vivid forum
What's the decorate to make missiles not pass through the actor that fired them?
tawny lion
by the way
i'm back
for doom
so if you have any WIP wad
be sure to let me know
i'll be thy tester
dawn saffron
so i've finished my SP/2player-coop map
finished to the limits of it being unpolished and possibly buggy
but if you want some classic doom action with some tricky secrets, that the map to go for
73RNUNFP
i'd say it has about total of 6 secrets: plasmagun, pistol, armor+ssg, supercharge, bfg, bfg+supercharge
using some tricks from original games
unreal oyster
created this bat file which will rename doom music from their original unordered filenames into a labeled-by-map system
figured i might as well share
so D_RUNNIN will get renamed into MAP01, D_STALKS will get renamed into MAP02 etc.
making for easy listening in a media program
frail aspen
unreal oyster
i'll give it a run
candid turtle
i played your map it was fun i dig it
candid turtle
well your friend then lol
unreal oyster
not too bad. architecture is pretty nice most of the time, sometimes things do get in the way and i feel like the hell knight area could be a bit bigger because i did get snagged on the blue firesticks which kinda do just get in the way
the music is not an amazing choice, gotta say. TNT's D_DM2INT just doesn't fit in most hell levels
and the pacing isn't slow enough to really justify it
a lot of it is just plain copy+pasted from Hell Keep and edited, and while that can work with heavy editing i'd avoid it generally
people are going to recognise the areas and unless you are using it as a gimmick (a lá GO 2 IT) it just seems a bit lazy
also, and i know this isn't particularly a fault of the mapper and more the IWAD choice, but the baron of hell is generally just regarded as a bad enemy. i'd try to avoid just placing one down on its own
it needs to have something going on along with the baron placement to make it interesting
there's a reason they are often called "Doors with Health"
i know this isn't an option here but a hell knight would be more justifiable there
but yeah, i'd spruce up the baron encounter with some lost souls attacking from inside the marble
with a few little alcoves of lost souls that come out and immediately see you
if this was D2 i'd replace that encounter with something more interesting
this is just a bit messy
i get the idea but i don't think theres a reason for it
it just blocks the players movement
uggh, i need to finish my current map at some point
sleek pond
out of curiosity, what's wrong with barons of hell?
haughty flower
People consider them to be too tank like I guess
also sorry for sending that friend request,misclick
I think if they were faster or more manuevarable then they'd be better enemies
but because they're so slow it's kind of a chore to take them down sometimes
sleek pond
Ah, I see. Too many HPs without anything new added
unreal oyster
Basically, 9/10 times a baron is used, a hell knight would work better
They aren't interesting, they are just circlestrafe+shoot
haughty flower
I really wish classic doom allowed for demons to be as manueverable as they are in nu-doom
I reckon I'm gonna make the baron faster in my WAD but there's not much else I can really do
like it'd be cool to have him be able to jump up and down and around somehow
unreal oyster
You can wait for Doomscript :P
sleek pond
D4D has the black barons (don't know their names) jumping in arcs sometimes with a splash damage effect on landing
Doesn't work in corridors but still pretty fun
unreal oyster
yeah, only problem with that sort of attack is that currently the logic behind it has to be super hacky
proper AI with interesting movement just isn't possible right now
molten tide
Its possible but quiet hacky and fake
sleek pond
define fake 😃
molten tide
Fake mean it looks like real
But its actually not
Example
Monster move zig zag
Its not avoid player attack
Its just move like that
unreal oyster
monsters moving in zigzag is default behavior of A_Chase
sleek pond
well, the players wouldn't know how it's done, so it doesn't matter whether it's done with some hacks or not
molten tide
Which its just got confuse
sleek pond
oh yea, pinkies run and hit the player in D4D, too
unreal oyster
the pinky retreating isn't it getting "confused" it's just the way the engine works
all enemies retreat ocasionally, pinkies just move faster so it's easier to notice
anyway, all of that isn't what i'm talking about with "advanced AI", what i mean is AI like in Unreal where enemies make an active effort to dodge your shots
with DECORATE and ACS, that is just completely impossible
it's the sort of thing that doomscript would be able to do
sleek pond
so how did they make it work with the arc jumps?
unreal oyster
i would assume it assesses the distance to the player in an ACS script, then calls RNG to determine if it should jump or not
the rng is important, else it would just jump every single time
unreal oyster
you couldn't make a demon that jumps out of the way of incoming rockets without so many ugly hacks
molten tide
I believe u can
Make the rocket spawn fake item
Around it
If a monster touch it
It will trigger the avoid sequence
I have tested this to check if they a wall infront off a player
Fuk mobile
unreal oyster
yeah but to do that you have to replace every projectile in the game, what if i want compatibility with a weapons mod?
and also, that's still an unfavourable hack
the point is doomscript (just like UnrealScript) would allow for actual robust enemy ai
sleek pond
last time i heard about doomscript was in 2009. how's it going in 2016? 😃
unreal oyster
it's still referred to, and i believe it's being slowly developed
Randi is fucking gone right now so her abscence isn't helping
since doomscript can't really be developed without the lead dev
i also think it might have been renamed to ZScript now?
molten tide
All hail graf zhal
molten tide
2009
sleek pond
molten tide
I remember he was really mad
sleek pond
well, it has some progress
molten tide
But where is randi
unreal oyster
just absent, it's happened many times
sleek pond
what about graf being mad?
unreal oyster
graf is pretty well known for turning down lots of useful feature requests, lol
molten tide
Well people disrespect him
Cuz of no
Dpjudas
I hope u can do what graf don't want to do
molten tide
The only good people left is
Torr
Graf zhal
Randi
I miss carn
Carn u try so hard to make skulltag popular
And then you killed it
Anyone played during the glory day of skulltag?
sleek pond
when was that?
molten tide
2007 I think
sleek pond
oh yeah, and i started with zdaemon
haven't touched skulltag for some time
so what was it with the glory days?
unreal oyster
Wireless fidelity
Pretty sure
Nvm, looking it up, it doesn't stand for anything
It's a play on Hi-Fi though so I guess wireless fidelity it the closest
unreal oyster
hm. gzdoom 2.2.0 released, how did i not notice that
unreal oyster
seems like it's incompatible with Brutal Doom though because Sgt_Mark_IV made a typo XD
and yeah, but this isn't zdoom 2.9 yet
tawny lion
Lol
unreal oyster
just a new gzdoom stable release
unreal oyster
multicore rendering can never be a thing for doom
tawny lion
i know
but
My guess
you have to build doom from scratch for multicore right?
or just the architecture cannot support multicore
unreal oyster
the way AI is done in doom means it can't be multicore
even if you rebuilt the game from the entire ground, you'd break compatibility with wad files
unreal oyster
also, it would require a complete redo of Doom.wad and Doom2.wad which is illegal
tawny lion
Freedoom
unreal oyster
who uses that when they own the real thing though
also, SDL is already multithreaded
tawny lion
SDL?
unreal oyster
but the visuals (i.e. the renderer) isn't what makes ZDoom lag
oh, SDL is a visual backend
which a lot of doom ports use
unreal oyster
yea
gzdoom uses opengl + SDL though
but that's not what makes wads lag in zdoom though, it's the large amount of DECORATE parsing that has to be done for every single actor on the map, every tick
in PrBoom that is all hardcoded, which is far less flexible, but far faster
unreal oyster
what?
unreal oyster
well you have to remember that first of all people are stubborn, and secondly a lot of people in the doom community still have very old hardware
unreal oyster
PrBoom has a different control feel to it, it's mainly how the engine handles the mouse
zdoom and prboom feel quite different
unreal oyster
here are the new features from GZDoom 2.2.0
also gzdoom now has bloom, which looks pretty nice
i saw on the zdoom forums that somebody managed to get the doom 4 shaders in a format that could potentially be usable by new gzdoom versions, but obviously legal reasons prevents that from ever being in a release
haughty flower
That is well optimized.
...and the new graphical shaders that GZdoom has I've been using for the last 2 weeks.
unreal oyster
it's fake lol
you CANNOT make doom multicore, its been asked before and it just isn't doable, the game logic isn't equipped to handle it
also, yes, gzdoom has had these graphical shaders for a while. not in a stable build though
and a lot of people don't like using a devbuild
i've been using the shaders for over a month
// the offcial doom multicore binary.....
int.<calculations>>>>>>>>
.set<binary./calculations<to>>>>>>>>>
.calculation<"1-1000000000000000000"
//this is managed by how much and what the levels are set to when ingame for the best cpu taking advantage......
//this also means that the computer needs to interact with the configs to make a constant calculation for all ingame moments....
//this binray is used only for calculations for the doom multicore program and file alone......
.complete.<config.<binray>>>>>>>>>//here......
// the offcial doom multi core program.....
//made by eiion software..
// programmer creater kingnoger.....
// this multicore performance levels config.......
int.<create.performance.levels>>>>>>>>>
set.vlaue("higher.the greater")
set.value (higher.for//better performance...)
set.<level.to>/"1000000000000000000"
.create.building block>>>>>>>>>>./create.all>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
that's from the doomworld thread on that "Multicore GZDoom"
good fucking code lmao
sleek pond
"this is diamond computer language code mainy in script written style i used my own computer custom language for this project "
that dude is awesome
"so it is written in diamond code and saved as a conf file and all the diamond conf files are combined into a file and a program this means in more detail with a new style of binrary called binary style..."
unreal oyster
been trying to write some midi stuff
very incomplete
never really done any musical stuff before but i've always been quite musical
so now i've found a program that works for me (sekaiju) so i can finally actually write something
would appreciate feedback
white crystal
I'm no music expert, but it seems well put together
sleek pond
harp sounds a little weird here, maybe switch to some different instrument?
dawn saffron
i have changed the melody of the guitar a little bit
otherwise it's very simlpistic which i think fits perfectly to what you need
dusk stone
Nice music but the harp doesn't fit.
sharp bear
Woah, I like the realish looking rock terrain
haughty flower
That aint that bad.
white crystal
Huh
how exactly does one compose their own midi music?
Do I need some high end music editing software?
Wait
that's dumb
high end for midi?
God I need more caffeine
Sekaiju huh...
dawn saffron
i actually was making this one a proper song of mine
and then just tried exporting it into midi
white crystal
So yeah, this.
dawn saffron
i have finished the song
so here goes the midi
but i honestly think that the previous version was better suiteed to be used in the game environment
vivid forum
@molten tide The rock is several triangles/rectangles with slope lines. The sectors and the lines all have the same texture which I got from some website, I forget where.
unreal oyster
Not bad. I'd advise you try being more creative with your shapes, though. Squares aren't interesting and don't make for a particularly fun gameplay experience. Also you'll become a much better mapper if you drop the habit of using doors - it's good to learn this early.
Texturing wasn't horrendous, but STARTAN2 isn't the best texture for your map I feel since the lines don't always line up with the architecture
sacred silo
i actually had a different texture earlier, it was in some texture wad so i swapped it last minute to avoid putting in more than one file
thank you for the advice, it's my first level that I actually got around to finishing and the critique helps
haughty flower
I like snapmap
dawn saffron
i do too
haughty flower
Anybody else map for Doom 4?
haughty flower
Needs full mod support
haughty flower
Just saying, it would be incredible if they added it.
You can already make good stuff though.
haughty flower
the Doom channel on Freenode is dead
dawn saffron
idc lol
haughty flower
XD
vivid forum
is there any way to make a custom sound play in prboom+ without making it a monster alert or the like?
open edge
anyone down for testing a snapmap with me?
dawn saffron
normally I would, but I'm out of town for now
haughty flower
SnapMap anyone? Problem I am having.. https://www.reddit.com/r/snapmap/comments/579j97/how_do_i_randomize_an_array_of_each_playerai/
dawn saffron
when i want to figure out the amount of players
i place filtered spawns
and "on spawn" do something for it to register
also there's the random relay for you and filters for signals
if you want, we can agree on a time for vc and i can stream for you
bleak solstice
I've been on a long break, I wonder when I'm gonna feel like working on my singleplayer WAD or my CTF WAD.
haughty flower
When you say wad do you mean SnapMap?
haughty flower
Anybody want to help me with Snapmap basics?
dawn saffron
doom has pretty good tutorial and challenges for basics
after that i can help you with any question you may have at hand
proper shuttle
i smell snapmaps
haughty flower
SnapMaps smell so good.
haughty flower
Snapmap is for lazy ppl tbh.
Or people who, you know, want to take advantage of Doom 4's mechanics, features and positives it has over the original games to make their own custom map through the only means available at the moment
:V
hazy lantern
@haughty flower Do you look at me after writing this? 😛
Also: @haughty flower you say lazy. Give me idStudio64 and I will make a whole new campaign with some folks 👍
haughty flower
remake original doom maps in id tech 6
hazy lantern
What @haughty flower said
haughty flower
@haughty flower you should explore more into SnapMap and what it's capable of.
inner fulcrum
I need to post in here more often. Darn me as an artist. Another WIP I have, but I was working on this thing for 3 years. Almost 4. A 4 map horror wad called The NIGHTMARE! Palace
formal breach
I'm so tempted to make a stealth style map. Maybe something in Project Brutality or vanilla.
Sadly it would be hard to make it where when a enemy shoots, it'll alert a bunch of other enemies.
I could try maybe.
Probably a custom DECORATE enemy or so
unreal oyster
it wouldn't be difficult at all, just have the enemies call A_RadiusGive when they shoot
then give them something like a "hate token" which makes them target the player on pickup
torn timber
this has a max range now
works well especially for weapons that you want to have different alert ranges, like when dealing with supressed/unsupressed weapons
or even how far away an enemy's death scream would be heard
@formal breach @unreal oyster
formal breach
Nice
dawn saffron
@unreal oyster what doom modding tools are there?
what tools are the most widely used?
prisma saddle
I'd assume that the most widely used tools are Doom Builder 2 and Slade.
prisma saddle
GZDOOM builder is an improvement of DOOM Builder 2
haughty flower
I'd recommend spending a month or two making maps with standard DB2 before moving onto GZDoom Builder though, I was overwhelmed with all the new stuff when I first tried GZDoom Builder. Spend some time learning all the essentials of DB2 and then move onto GZDoom Builder
Dunno if anyone else here agrees with me but that's just from personal experience
unreal oyster
No, start with GZDoom builder
You'll have to throw out a lot of knowledge if you switch
And GZDoom builder isn't more difficult
If you are being overwhelmed by GZDoom builder options then start to learn in Boom format instead
haughty flower
never said it was more difficult, just that DB2 gives you less options to work with which means you get more acquainted with them
to each his own I suppose
unreal oyster
well then use boom format lol
the extra features only show up for UDMF
(and maybe some for hexen)
formal breach
I used DB2 for a few months, then moved to GZDB.
prisma saddle
I started with GZDB
dawn saffron
thanks, i'll try gzdoom builder first then
unreal oyster
if you need to do anything more advanced than map editing you'll need SLADE 3 @dawn saffron
dawn saffron
not yet, but i have slade, thanks
because i needed it for my music mod
how to convert things from mid to mus?
also, do i need to?
unreal oyster
depends if you care for vanilla compat
dawn saffron
i see
unreal oyster
most midi files won't even convert to MUS though, it has limits
unreal oyster
yea
dawn saffron
good\
unreal oyster
midi works in prboom
dawn saffron
zdoom?
unreal oyster
midi works in anything newer than the original engine basically
unreal oyster
in fact most engines newer than prboom can use mp3, ogg, wav
unreal oyster
map format?
unreal oyster
well there isn't really a clear cut answer, it depends on how much compatibility you want
doom: doom 2 will work in any engine
boom: doom 2 will work in anything newer than boom (and is the most popular format due to doomworld's majority using PrBoom+)
gzdoom doom 2 (hexen) is entirely obselete
and gzdoom: doom 2 (udmf) offers full creative freedom
unreal oyster
with the caveat that you may get a smaller audience
unreal oyster
i started on UDMF, but i see a lot of people recommend Boom as it may not be as overwhelming
unreal oyster
UDMF offers extensive (and i mean extensive, we're talking tabs of options here) options which could be a bit too much at first
dawn saffron
unfortunately i have to go, so i'll play around with it a bit later, but i really appreciate your help
unreal oyster
i never had that issue myself but y'know
dawn saffron
👍
dawn saffron
@unreal oyster also, sorry for bothering you again, but can you point me towards gazdoom tutorials?
good gzdoom tutorials?
torn timber
The thing is, as you go on, if you're using the older configs you'll start to see room for tiny little features you might've wanted that the newer config probably already has
I remember Chubbz Doomer had a playlist for Doom Builder 2, which the setup is mostly the same
This will probably also help
for example, the slopes guide
in Doom Builder 2, you won't be able to see the slopes in the editor, you'd have to run the game to see them, but GZDoom Builder will show the slopes in the editor and even allow you to interact with them, same goes for 3D floors
dawn saffron
thank you!
hazy lantern
EXCAVATION: DAMNATION
MAP-ID: JBRF9K7M
hazy lantern
unreal oyster
ah, ok
analog oriole
are there any docs / tutorials about setting up DM map and hosting FFA server using that DM map ?
analog oriole
no one? :/
frank basin
classic doom?
bitter kindle
@analog oriole if you're talking about NuDoom/Doom 2016, it doesn't allow you to host servers
You can have private matches though
analog oriole
Doom 2016
hmm
what's the difference between hosting a server and a private match ?
someone still needs to be a server and the rest will connect to him, no?
frank basin
No, everyone plays on bethesda servers
analog oriole
so, how does it work if I want to play with friends on my map from SnapMap ?
frank basin
Oh, snapmap is separete to the other MP stuff
You need to go to your map in SnapMap and send invites to your friends
analog oriole
basically the goal is to make a DM map in SnanMap and play it as if it was classic old Doom, e.g. without loadouts.
frank basin
Yeah you can do that, just follow the snapmap tutorials in the game and start a new map with the DM template
But SnapMap is limited to 4 players
analog oriole
that's why I am asking for tutorials / docs for SnapMap that describe setting up deathmatch multiplayer map and disabling loadouts 😃
I see
alright, I'll give it a try
thanks
4 people limit shouldn't be a problem. I think generally it's hard to find more people than that to play MP nowadays anyway
I wish id Software brought classic DM into Doom officially
frank basin
Yeah :/ it's kinda too late now
unreal oyster
honestly i kinda blame bethesda for a lot of id's annoyances with doom 4
because if i'm honest, i believe that id would have wanted to bring all these things in
frank basin
Well, they outsourced it and got something half assed back
unreal oyster
and with this dumb no-review-copy bullshit bethesda's been pulling recently i don't think very highly of them and i think that they could have had too much involvement in the development of doom 4
frank basin
Well, did you see those aweful doom4 leaks from a few years ago? Rumour has it that bethesda pulled the plug and got id back on track to making a good game
And the no reviews shit is bs
analog oriole
yeh, we'd have Doom of Duty if they didn't reboot it again
unreal oyster
that no-review thing is ultimately anti-reviewer, anti-consumer and only helps bethesda
it's fucking horrible
frank basin
They're doing it to trick us into trusting them, a few good games with no reviews and they can start getting away with it
analog oriole
then review in 2-3 weeks
unreal oyster
no, what will happen is reviews will be rushed as shit and badly done
analog oriole
so, if you can't wait - buy it
if you want to read reviews - wait
what's the big deal?
unreal oyster
tricking people into buying games based off a rushed review that is likely wrong
frank basin
^
unreal oyster
since all the review sites have to compete for clicks
analog oriole
that's something to blame reviewer for, not company that make games
that's why I don't care for reviews nowadays
most of it click-bait stuff
people who aren't into genre review games is plain wrong
unreal oyster
no, all of that can be prevented with pre-launch review copies + a review embargo forcing people to actually play the game and form a good opinion in the time they can't release a review
analog oriole
back in 90s it was much much better.. If a person hated FPS or was a hardcore fan of a sub-genre, then they wouldn't review FPS game
unreal oyster
what bethesda are doing is intentionally getting reviewers to rush for business
so that they (hopefully) praise the game too much and more people buy it
frank basin
If you make a good, proper review, your review will be out days after everyone else, so bethesda are encouraging click bait
analog oriole
why do you personally care for reviews?
unreal oyster
to gauge whether i should buy a game, obviously
unreal oyster
yes, based on reviewers i trust
analog oriole
99% of reviews are subjective
frank basin
Well they help me know wther I would like a game
unreal oyster
not just any reviewer, one's that have the same opinion as me
so i'll listen to Totalbiscuit's review but not Kotaku, for example
frank basin
The reviewers I follow are very good at being objective
analog oriole
watch gameplay videos, play a demo (yeah, I know, not too many of those around nowadays)
frank basin
They will be punished with beth's new system
Like totalbicuits videos wont be possible with it
They take a long time to make
analog oriole
I guess what Beth should have done is check track record of reviewers and still supply most objective ones with codes, while leaving crazy ones empty handed
frank basin
No, that would also create bad incentives
analog oriole
while I like TB generally, he is just too anal most of the times
frank basin
@analog oriole He actually cares about quality, you mean
unreal oyster
i believe Jim Sterling is banned from a lot of publisher's review codes for being too much of a wildcard
which is fucking dumb
analog oriole
no, being anal isn't about quality. It's nitpicking.
and he catches himself doing that some times
but for a lot of kids watching his videos it's not obvious
unreal oyster
also, the review copy bannings scream to me "we have no confidence in our games"
making me ultimately less likely to buy from bethesda
it's funny how they are using Doom as the excuse for this
like, no, that excuse doesn't work at all if the game wasn't developed by you
it's a shit excuse made even worse
"this game was good and we didn't give review codes for it, so that must mean that all of our products will be the same! (please disregard the fact that doom was made by iD, not bethsoft, please)"
analog oriole
do you doubt that Dishonored 2 will be a good game?
unreal oyster
certainly more doubtful because of this, although i have never played dishonored, have never seen any dishonored gameplay
but even without that knowledge, i'm still a bit more doubtful because of this decision
analog oriole
I think Dishonored 2 will be awesome
and perhaps this generation of games from Beth will be solid
they could use that in the future of course as an argument
unreal oyster
and it would be just as horrible an argument, and nothing would have changed
they've already tried to do that with doom, and even disregarding that id made doom, not bethsoft, it's still a terrible argument that relies on fanboyism and blind faith in companies that are not your friend and never will be
analog oriole
that's why I don't really care for this "issue"
I only buy 2-3 games per year
and I rarely buy them in day 1 or pre-order
DOOM and Wolf TNO were the only 2 games I ever pre-ordered
dawn saffron
^ + gta5
analog oriole
😃
So I kinda go for something I know, watch gameplay videos and take a leap of faith.
unreal oyster
fuck preordering anything imo, no preorder bonus can balance out the risk of a game being absolute shit
unless the preorder bonus is something like early access or another game entirely
i preordered planet coaster, but that's only because it came with the alpha, so it was fine
and people had been playing it on youtube and giving thoughts, so i knew it was already good
analog oriole
so far it wasn't the case
analog oriole
but, those are games I started my PC gaming path with, so I felt those can't turn out to be bad 😄
dawn saffron
and i had faith in doom and wanted to give money for it regardless
analog oriole
Darksiders 3 is something I would preorder too
unreal oyster
i just don't see why preordering makes a difference
unreal oyster
preorder - get a potentially shitty game with a shoddy slapped on bonus
buy after release - get a guarantee on quality (which imo is worth so much more than any bonus possible, bar another-already-known-to-be-good game)
also preordering things just ends up feeding into devs being shitty because they know they will get away with it
analog oriole
Is it possible to have "outdoor" areas in SnapMap maps ?
frank basin
I think there a few outdoor modules in snapmap
analog oriole
I don't mean like wide open levels on Mars surface, but some large area with sky and maybe ability to put some structures inside
(sorry, haven't had a chance to mess with SnapMap after beating the game once)
analog oriole
someone should make a reference showing all modules available 😉
vivid forum
Isn't the "bethesda" and reviewers conversation appropriate to "offtopic" or "general" instead of mapping-modding?
frank basin
it is
vivid forum
What map epitomizes the hell look?
unreal oyster
yeah lol we got off track from a subject which i believe was actually on topic heh
analog oriole
so, no one really knows if there are outdoor areas in SnapMap :/
btw, DLC #2 has wonderful architecture. Hopefully they will push it into SnapMap eventually
hazy lantern
@analog oriole You can make skyboxes now
@analog oriole https://www.reddit.com/r/Doom/comments/59jhwg/a_snapmap_made_entirely_out_of_geomatry_by_request/
analog oriole
I don't see any custom geometry there
(on screenshots that is)
also don't see how skyboxes are made (and wiki doesn't seem to have any docs, unless I am overlooking it ) :/
hazy lantern
Also: @analog oriole are you interested in trying a Singleplayer SnapMap?
analog oriole
that's the only thing I am interested in (when I finally get time to mess with it). I don't play MP at all, and I was asking about DM simply because buddy of mine was asking me about it 😃
hazy lantern
@analog oriole Then search for this: JBRF9K7M
analog oriole
Ok, thanks
hazy lantern
@dawn saffron is trying to communicate
tawny lion
@dawn saffron IS EVOLVING
dawn saffron
wow
tawny lion
OH MY GOD
dawn saffron
bunch of dicks
tawny lion
lol
hazy lantern
@tawny lion JBRF9K7M - search this in SnapMap.
dawn saffron
😄
tawny lion
i'll save it
hazy lantern
@tawny lion 👍
tawny lion
i'm guessing it's a map
hazy lantern
Jep
dawn saffron
i'm actually gonna be "renovating" my mpas in accordance with the new update
hazy lantern
Okay okay
analog oriole
@dawn saffron what's up?
dawn saffron
ah, hi!
i wanted to ask you if you wanted to maybe play my map with me?
while i iron out improvements from the latest update
analog oriole
Sorry, I don't play online (and at work right now anyway)
dawn saffron
ah, no worries
i'll just post the ID a little bit later then
it's perfectly fine to play the map on ypour own
analog oriole
Aye, cool
dawn saffron
73rnunfp
after you finish it it should automatically set you into the lobby of the next map
analog oriole
@dawn saffron tried it
Killed the big guy and no idea what to do next
Not a bad beginning though
Can become something cool
@hazy lantern pretty sweet map, but my poor PC chokes on those fights :)
Didn't make it to outdoor area, if that's why you linked me your map
dawn saffron
i mean
he says right in the beginning
we need a rocket launcher to clear ther passage
you need to shoot the bunch of stuff in the doorway @analog oriole
analog oriole
What door way?
I got rocket launcher, got plasmagun, killed hell knight and that's it. There is no other door except the one I came from.
haughty flower
Need 2-3 people to help me test my multiplayer competitive SnapMap
analog oriole
@mitori also did that. The message said something about "we were her before"
royal wave
Considering making a classic mod based on a point and click flash game series I used to play when I was younger
Was an acquaintance with the creator, so I'm wanting to ask permission to do it
dawn saffron
@analog oriole ???
no it said altars! altars were not there before
you need to go and shoot a bunch of rubble blocking the passage which you seen when you start the map
analog oriole
Didn't spot any rubble
Anyhow, there you have it - need to communicate flow in a bit more obvious fashion ;)
dawn saffron
dude, you're the first to have problems with it
alirght, i think i know a way to fix it
hazy lantern
First thought: A tounghe? Ohhh... oops 😂
dawn saffron
is there anyone here who would like to playtest my map with me a bit later?
frank basin
Does anyone know how to launch zdoom into DM mode from doom builder?
unreal oyster
add -host 1 -deathmatch to your launch options
frank basin
ok
thanks
unreal oyster
which will create a 1 player deathmatch game on launch
royal wave
Gonna share this here because it didn't make much of a splash over at r/doom https://www.dropbox.com/s/mzpi8sq1qw4z4xi/IRNCATH.pk3?dl=0
trying to find screenshots