Ludum Dare 56 Collab

[pure ruin]

its all just data

[lavish carbon]

i feel like flixel already has such feature

looks like it

mmm give me a second

[pure ruin]

Im aware

the point is to make modular systems like our Camera class

I'm not asking you to impliment features from scratch

[lavish carbon]

oh

[pure ruin]

thats why we're using flixel

I mean, unless its necessary obviously

so when we glue everything together, we're using a short subset of specific modules

and the apis they expose

many hands make light work

[ruby grove]

soo what can i do rn?

[pure ruin]

what would you like to do?

[ruby grove]

i don't really know what to pick 😭

[final falcon]

Does Flixel have a central event/message bus? I feel you can simplify interactions between systems if you just allow everything to listen for events on a central gameplay eventdispatcher or something

[final bane]

i wanted to do the progress tracking system but i dont really feel like doing all of it

[lavish carbon]

no it doesnt have an event system or anything

hell yes language barrier part 2

[weak fern]

i mean you can kind of make one with FlxSignals

[pure ruin]

did you change the credits workflow @weak fern

[weak fern]

i just updated actions/checkout and krdlab/setup-haxe

[lavish carbon]

ok so

[pure ruin]

let me go see what happened

[weak fern]

i didn't modify the actual haxe

[lavish carbon]

zoom affects panning?

[pure ruin]

its failing now

[pure ruin]

where the hell did www.github.com

come from

lol

uhh

[weak fern]

so

turns out

they messed up

[pure ruin]

lol

[weak fern]

that should be just SIG7Pro

[pure ruin]

I see

thanks for pointing that out

[weak fern]

np

and look at that

fixed

[lavish carbon]

@pure ruin could you elaborate on this

[pure ruin]

you dont have to

lets use the issue to discuss

[ruby grove]

idk what to choose

idk if i am ever gonna be able to do anything for this...

[lavish carbon]

be patient

[pure ruin]

you can help us playtest in later stages 🙂

if you feel too overwhelmed

and help find bugs

[lavish carbon]

should camera panning be affected by zoom

i don't really understand the concept

Allow the camera to move faster when zoomed out
Slow the pan speed when zoomed in
??

[pure ruin]

yes

the camera should move faster when its zoomed out

the math there is kind of simple

its just a multiplier

[weak fern]

when the camera's zoom is lower, it should move faster and vice versa

[lavish carbon]

oh

so panning speed depends on the zoom

so the more the camera is zoomed, the slower panning is?

[pure ruin]

the formula is something like (zoom%) * speed

[lavish carbon]

bro

[weak fern]

orb

[lavish carbon]

i know how to math im just asking about the concept because i didnt understand it to begin with

so the more it is zoomed, the faster panning is

ok gotcha

[weak fern]

other way around i think

less zoom = faster

[lavish carbon]

oh

[pure ruin]

Zoom out vs zoom in

[lavish carbon]

so less zoom = faster mmm okie

yeah should be relatively simple

[pure ruin]

I think 😂

if its backwards we can change it later

dont take offense if I explain something 😛

[ruby grove]

sooo

what could i pick

[pure ruin]

and

in the future use the github issue

to ask questions about a task

so other contributors can follow

without trying to having to skim through discord

no time for that

unless its not an open task in the issues

[cold estuary]

pick what you can do

[ruby grove]

isn't there like a recommendation or something?

[lavish carbon]

i think i understood the concept

[ruby grove]

i actually wanna help tho

[lavish carbon]

yeah sure

go to todo.md and look at the tasks to go

issues tab too

https://github.com/haxecollab/ludum-dare-56

[lavish carbon]

@pure ruin is this the effect you wanted

[cold estuary]

noone can recommend something to you, cause no one knows what you can do, so just be honest with what you're capable with and just find something that sounds like something you can roughly do

[ruby grove]

sword, do you mind if i help you?

[north sage]

wouldn't recommend if communication is bad

[lavish carbon]

eh to be fair i'm fine right now

the tasks im doing are relatively simple

[cold estuary]

what are you hesitating on? @ruby grove

[ruby grove]

i don't wanna stay around here doing nothing

[lavish carbon]

maybe you could give a shot to the dialogue engine with me later tho

[final falcon]

you totally trolled me there. I thought your avatar is some dirt on my screen/broken pixels...

xD

[pure ruin]

perfect

[ruby grove]

is this already taken?

[lavish carbon]

was this meant to reply to my video

okok now i can continue then

[cold estuary]

sword is doing camera stuff atm

[cold estuary]

@ruby grove

can you do that?

[ruby grove]

oh

save data

yes..?

[lavish carbon]

json?

[cold estuary]

it's a bit wordy/sound complex. But all you really need to do here is just figure out a way to save and load a file. And have a central way to access it

[lavish carbon]

flixel has FlxSave, which uses openfl SharedObject

in other words, serialized data in a .sol file

[cold estuary]

oh true lol

[pure ruin]

https://github.com/haxecollab/ludum-dare-56/issues/26 that kind of goes in line with this

[lavish carbon]

ok i did the zoom level system

now that im thinking i think the zoom should be clamped

[pure ruin]

but we can break things down into smaller steps

[lavish carbon]

used the good ol lerp

[pure ruin]

let me try to list out some low hanging fruit

in the issues

instead of big ticket items

[north sage]

would be glad to do these kind of tasks especially in a high-stress environment

[weak fern]

FlxSave and a bunch of arrays

[pure ruin]

a cake is a flour eggs and sugar

😛

[north sage]

could always use a flag system

[lavish carbon]

math

currently trying to make things a bit nicer

[weak fern]

and a lot of heat

[lavish carbon]

ok most likely done with zoom stuff

isn't said macro view just tied to zoom levels?

@pure ruin

[ruby grove]

ok so when can i start

[north sage]

anytime

[ruby grove]

idrk what to do for my task rn

[pure ruin]

depends

gives us some leeway during polishing

if we have a max zoom and min zoom

and then a total zoom out

[lavish carbon]

i actually added a max and min actually

[pure ruin]

cant move the map anymore

[lavish carbon]

oh wait

[pure ruin]

just a total zoom out

like

[lavish carbon]

as in it's like

you see the entire map

[pure ruin]

yea

more tiny creatures

[lavish carbon]

ah

[ruby grove]

so what am i actually supposed to do

[lavish carbon]

gahhhh i should have started with a stub map

[pure ruin]

the map is just numbers

its just a rectangle

ok so (2048x16) x (2048x16)

[ruby grove]

^^

[lavish carbon]

i feel like the zoom out feature would just simply be a sort of map

[pure ruin]

thats fine but we should be able to call it from the camera

like camera.displayAll()

[lavish carbon]

i guess?

my idea was to open a substate directly

[pure ruin]

or showAll()

in either case we call it from the camera

[ruby grove]

helloooo?

[lavish carbon]

but directly from the camera sounds jank

[pure ruin]

no, because its the cameras job

[lavish carbon]

let me do the thing anyways

[pure ruin]

the camera controls the view

what other module should control the view?

[lavish carbon]

i mean...

[pure ruin]

minimap isnt the same thing

[lavish carbon]

yeah i just called it like that

could call it MacroView i guess

[pure ruin]

sure

[lavish carbon]

not to confuse with haxe macros™️

[pure ruin]

macro just means large

opposite of micro

nvm you know that

[lavish carbon]

what?

no im actually making a real macro right now /j

[pure ruin]

dont mess with me its 5 am and I havent slept lol

[lavish carbon]

ohj

[pure ruin]

serious faces >:3

[pure ruin]

what are your skills/talents?

I'm not ignoring you, but you gotta help me help you

I cant decide for you

I dont know you

I tried to do discussions to get to know everyone and their talents weeks ago in github for this purpose

but no one really participated

[ruby grove]

well i idrk how to say that

[pure ruin]

well then maybe just wait for an opportunity to fit in somewhere, theres 2.5 days left

everyone just started helping all at once a little while ago

[ruby grove]

i can do movement code ig?

[pure ruin]

thats the camera

hmm

let me look through things

the task list isnt complete

[ruby grove]

what about the hud?

[pure ruin]

are you familiar with haxeui?

[ruby grove]

ehhh, not really

[pure ruin]

do we need to use haxeui for everything?

probably not

[ruby grove]

uHhH

idk

haven't played around with it that much

[north sage]

if haxeui can have customized style, maybe, but i disagree with using haxeui on everything

[pure ruin]

the hud is a good low hanging fruit

let me make an issue for the hud and give a detailed overview of what we need to do

has anyone read the game narrative?

can I get some creative feedback lol

[lavish carbon]

am i going to be punished for this

the long lines

[north sage]

how else can we represent the Gloom?

i know it represents like the dark age (literal) of the world

oh speaking of the neighbors, perhaps we can also give them some more problems that they can solve but can't, so all they need is a bit of inspiration

[pure ruin]

metaphorically or literally/physically?

[north sage]

metaphorically speaking

[lavish carbon]

the macro view in question

[north sage]

had to resize

[lavish carbon]

more seriously it's done for the most part backend-wise

[north sage]

so we're going for that detailed pixel art... atleast because of the limitations

[lavish carbon]

right now i really need to get good keyboard keys

i dont know why im having a hard time finding appropriate keys for things

[north sage]

speaking of keyboard, i'd like to share my controls class

use this to your heart's content

[lavish carbon]

like rn i kinda just

choosed really random keys for debugging

[weak fern]

counter

[lavish carbon]

eh im not

really a fan of static singletons like this

[north sage]

competition :O

[lavish carbon]

cobalt's aint any better

i would have made it an object

even if its a singleton

[weak fern]

controls as an object

are you

insane-

[lavish carbon]

no are you insane

[north sage]

am i insane too?

[weak fern]

i prefer static vars to singletons

[lavish carbon]

imagine if FlxSprite was static

[weak fern]

FlxSprite is designed to be an object

a CONTROLS CLASS isnt

[lavish carbon]

controls definetly is

[weak fern]

no

[lavish carbon]

what if i want multiple players

ah so jolly

[weak fern]

is this a multiplayer game?

no

(afaik

[north sage]

and are we going to make multiple players?

[lavish carbon]

still

brah i still think static is jank

for such thing

[weak fern]

static is awesome

in both syntax and usage

[north sage]

and do you have a way to back that claim?

[lavish carbon]

tomfoolery

okok i gotta stop talking

[north sage]

now i see why i always felt you're trying to be right in every scenario

[lavish carbon]

??????

that's just my point of view personally i don't think it should be static

[lavish carbon]

for reasons of mine

that you might not be for

[ruby grove]

uhm

[lavish carbon]

now i shall continue this jam

[north sage]

well, you did bring up multiple players regarding that controls code when we aren't making a multiplayer game in the first place

[lavish carbon]

i was talking about geenral use case bro 😭

[ruby grove]

so should i do the save-data thing?

[north sage]

yes go

[pure ruin]

no its not multiplayer

I mean

its open source

[north sage]

regardless i don't have the energy to argue with you rn but we might have this talk somewhere again later

[pure ruin]

but for the entry thats kinda out there 😛

[lavish carbon]

sure

[ruby grove]

time to use the good old flxg.save.data

[weak fern]

[lavish carbon]

for settings i agree

i don't see why settings could be an object

so i agree here

[pure ruin]

but yeah, the gloom is the creepy eepy doom that sucks the hope and fun out of the world

they feed on hopelessness

and multiply

[north sage]

how can we interpret this in a metaphorical way?

taxes?

i mean, most of us will probably pay taxes by 10 years

or injustice?

[pure ruin]

idk

war

[north sage]

that's a good point

[pure ruin]

loss of life

political divide

its a game about unity

and overcoming

[north sage]

division is a very broad theme so

[pure ruin]

with some spooky elements

its october afterall

[weak fern]

taxes are far funnier

[ruby grove]

for what ._.

[weak fern]

mine was better smh..

[north sage]

you can check the PR mentioned...

[north sage]

let's control our humor

we can have humor elsewhere

[weak fern]

its a game jam, its not that serious

[ruby grove]

no

[lavish carbon]

oh do you love it when inputs interfers

[weak fern]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-dog-tax-evasion-baller-gif-15976099535771671347

[lavish carbon]

hell yes

[weak fern]

erm... mine got merged...

[north sage]

i never said we disregard humor

[ruby grove]

...

[north sage]

hey no strong words

we already had a sudden spike with those a few minutes ago

[weak fern]

i was making a joke mb

[north sage]

a spike is enough

[lavish carbon]

i swear to god

.

i thought they were updated before the state

[pure ruin]

I have some stretch goals for the game if we have the time to spend on it

[north sage]

post-jam?

[pure ruin]

well for the jam, but only after we have a complete entry

[north sage]

right

[ruby grove]

just one reason, why was my pr closed without a reason

[lavish carbon]

bandaids

[pure ruin]

I didnt close it

so I cant tell ya

[north sage]

what PR

you mean the PR you sent before?

[ruby grove]

pr #20 duh

[north sage]

because there is already a comment explaining so

[ruby grove]

but i thought mine was gonna get merged first

[lavish carbon]

ok now this

[north sage]

timing is everything

[lavish carbon]

so that's just a zoom in right

@pure ruin

[north sage]

a superior PR might've existed when yours came

[lavish carbon]

or is it something like a

[north sage]

and don't feel bad about it anyway

[lavish carbon]

mini view

or something

[ruby grove]

can i maybe do movement code like the player maybe

[north sage]

well, for an example, i would say something like "moving" to an NPC

[north sage]

depends on the game

[ruby grove]

oh well ima start rn ig

[north sage]

do you know what game we're working on?

[ruby grove]

still

ima start

[north sage]

answer my question

[ruby grove]

uhhhh

[north sage]

so you don't know?

[lavish carbon]

hell

[ruby grove]

i do

dont you fucking assume things

[north sage]

then what is the game we're working on?

after all, we only have 72 hours

[ruby grove]

the theme is tiny creatures

do i have to repeat that a million times or what?

[north sage]

what game are we working on?

i did ask for the game, not the theme

[lavish carbon]

is chris online

[north sage]

i might have to assume you don't know, but for the sake of it

[ruby grove]

well ima start anyways

[north sage]

we're working on a civilization type of game

[north sage]

it's really important that you at least know what you're doing and what we're working on

we only have 72 hours after all, and now less as almost half a day has passed

[ruby grove]

what happens if i start now

[north sage]

it wouldn't matter much but it's better to come up planned than trying to be fast

[ruby grove]

ehhh

[north sage]

and besides that, i've noticed you momentarily antagonized me a bit

[ruby grove]

sword can you send over the camera code rq

[north sage]

don't do that, i'm only interested in making sure you at least know what you're doing

[pure ruin]

the leaf ppl wip

[pure ruin]

sup

[lavish carbon]

what do you imply by "zoom in"

for npc conv and such

[ruby grove]

-# ??

[pure ruin]

ok so in that context

for example we may do something like

[ruby grove]

^^

[ruby grove]

@lavish carbon

[pure ruin]

camera.zoomInTo(object:String, value:Float); and camera.zoomTo(x:float,y:float, value:Float);

just add empty function block for the first one

it will plug into the central data to get a point

based on an event id

the second function is self explanatory

does that make sense?

[lavish carbon]

mmmm

why is object a string

[pure ruin]

I just explained why

its an id

[lavish carbon]

so an event id

[pure ruin]

change it to id

its just pseudo code

yeah, leave the function body blank for now

we'll fill it in when its needed

but you can implement the other function

basically the camera will pan to a location

[lavish carbon]

so zoomTo is supposed to zoom to an object for a certain period of time?

[pure ruin]

and then zoom on it

based on the value

no, not based on time

the value is the zoom value

[ruby grove]

sword

[lavish carbon]

what if we want to reset the cam and make it follow the player shortly after though

[weak fern]

i go sleep now gn yall and good luck

[pure ruin]

then we call camera.follow(event);

[lavish carbon]

fair

[pure ruin]

see ya

[weak fern]

buh bye

[north sage]

sword i think you need to answer someone's question apparently

[pure ruin]

just leave blank function bodies with a //todo

for certain things we cant implement yet because of missing dependencies

im sure hes going to pr it at some point soon @ruby grove

we're on a time crunch

please be mature

[lavish carbon]

there's lot of dependencies required actually

[pure ruin]

thats fine, we stub things with todo's for now

it'll also give other contributors a chance to help plug some things in later too

I'm in the middle of building the game mechanics/data/ with 0 front-end

everything will come together

plug and play

[ruby grove]

i just realized what bitch behaviour i am displaying

[north sage]

i can only describe it as... impatience

[pure ruin]

yeah Im not being rude, we just have limited time and I havent slept in 24 hours 😛

[ruby grove]

i sometimes have these jealousy ahh issues

[north sage]

you could do better with being more patient

[ruby grove]

idrk why

uhhhh

[north sage]

let's not turn this into a therapy session though

[ruby grove]

uhhh

okkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

i honestly don't know how to fix myself

[north sage]

and i suggested that you be patient

that's how you fix yourself

don't ignore everyone else's advice and words

[pure ruin]

it'll be easier to do the Map module when the tile sheet is done

she is almost done working on that too

[north sage]

perhaps if we do this again, we might need to find artists as well

[pure ruin]

Yeah I tried to reach out

but they were taken by other teams

mostly because we are an unproven group

[north sage]

maybe in the next jam, we'll get a better chance

[pure ruin]

that hasnt submitted a jam entry together

people dont want to risk wasting their time, I dont blame them

[weak fern]

programmer art

[lavish carbon]

so that is zoomTo right

zoomInTo*

aka this

[pure ruin]

yea

[lavish carbon]

alright

ok now this

mmm camera dragging

is ee

[pure ruin]

might add some tween parameter at some point

dont worry about drag

that is more of a minimap thing

camera should move via arrow keys(and or wasd)

and the camera should move/drift if you put mouse on edge of the application viewport

something like 48 px

from the edge should trigger

[ruby grove]

what's a viewport

[pure ruin]

and we should make that optional

because html5

[north sage]

i think the term is what you can actually see from the player's perspective

[pure ruin]

so, just add a bool

[ruby grove]

uh

[pure ruin]

and we'll plug it into our settings module later

this is a good start, the camera the second biggest task

[ruby grove]

-# ---

buh hi

[north sage]

if you're still confused, just say it out loud

saying "uh" isn't making it obvious

say "can you clarify what a viewport is?", that's a good question

[pure ruin]

what was I gonna make an issue about?

guh

my brain

[north sage]

lack of sleep feeding onto you?

[pure ruin]

probably

[north sage]

if so, if you wanna stay up (though I don't recommend easily and not meant to be encouraged)

[pure ruin]

I havent had a coffee in a few hours

[north sage]

maybe try a notepad or 2?

[pure ruin]

oh this

I will get a few hour nap in at some point

Oh

I love the fire civ sprites

my favorite so far

[lavish carbon]

i was afk

[lavish carbon]

so no drag feature?

[pure ruin]

nope dont worry about this now

I dont know if it will even be a thing

[lavish carbon]

ok

keyboard shortcuts done

just need to do mouse wheel thing

zoom wheel done

[ruby grove]

qwertzuiopüasdfgh

[lavish carbon]

mmmmm

[ruby grove]

Error: and isn't a valid field

[pure ruin]

?

[north sage]

?

[lavish carbon]

lol

ok anyways

[pure ruin]

what isnt a valid field

[lavish carbon]

what does move-drift implies

[pure ruin]

turtle clan

[lavish carbon]

camera bounding stuff?

[pure ruin]

if you move your mouse near the edge of the application

its like pressing an arrow key

[lavish carbon]

oh

[pure ruin]

make sense?

[north sage]

yeah it's common in strategy games

like StarCraft 2

[lavish carbon]

yeah i get it

[north sage]

if Sword's ever played it

[lavish carbon]

so basically move the player if the mouse is near an edge of the app

[north sage]

no?

[pure ruin]

we move the camera

[lavish carbon]

offset the camera panning?

[north sage]

maybe you didn't play StarCraft 2

but er anyways

[lavish carbon]

i think i see what you guys want hold on

[ruby grove]

..?

uhh huhhh

[pure ruin]

moving mouse to between the range of (viewport width - 48) to (viewport width)

is the same as pressing the right arrow key

for example

[lavish carbon]

i see

[ruby grove]

eepy sleepy

[pure ruin]

https://github.com/haxecollab/ludum-dare-56/issues/28

Fire Relic, Ice Relic, Water Relic, Turtle Relic, Leaf Relic, Stone Relic

I still need to flesh out the details of some of these mechanics

[lavish carbon]

ok i think im done with the drift thing

going to record in a second

huh

nvm

ok recording

im gonna adjust the region more

why the eggplant

srd i swear to god 😭

[pure ruin]

just ignore

looks correct, I think

do we have a scroll sensitivity multiplier?

for the settings?

[lavish carbon]

eh

can be done by turning the value into a variable

[pure ruin]

would be nice if we could multiply it

by a float

[lavish carbon]

game jam code

[pure ruin]

sensitivty * speed

where 1 would just be normal

[lavish carbon]

trying to figure out how i could make this zoom-independant

screenX seems to be affected by zoom

weirddd

OH

I FORGOT TO NORMALIZE THE

drift region properly

grahhhh

😭

[ruby grove]

lol

[lavish carbon]

so you just want a multiplier ranging from 0-1 instead of a "normal" value?

[weak fern]

Fmpat

[ruby grove]

double looking ahh

[pure ruin]

0-2

but not need to complicate it in the camera module

we just need a float value

it can be set from the settings

[lavish carbon]

Ah ok

So basically a multiplicator

[pure ruin]

yeah we call it a multiplier

turtle relic >:3

[ruby grove]

cute boi

[lavish carbon]

ill get back to this now

and finish the camera stuff

how much time is there left?

@pure ruin

Not sure if hes sleeping

[lavish carbon]

ok after an hour or so i finally fixed this

FlxG.mouse.screenX/Y was dependant on zoom

luckily FlxGame had fields for world-independant mouse position

ok im done with camera stuff for the most part

going to clean up and documentate code

[teal ravine]

hi all

up now

[lavish carbon]

hi logo

[teal ravine]

i had a dream where the theme wasn't actually tiny creatures and they lied to us

[lavish carbon]

real

[teal ravine]

glad to see real progress going

[lavish carbon]

eh to be fair im kinda alone

doing the camera system

[ruby grove]

do you want me to help you with something

[lavish carbon]

nah

not for camera system atleast

[ruby grove]

k

[pure ruin]

?

[lavish carbon]

you weren't sleeping?

doh

anyways i just finished the camera system for the most part

it's framerate independant and theres everything you asked in the issue

well, most things

excluding exceptions and the few things that needed more backend implemented in

what the hell

i.. commited without permisions?

nevermind

ok fork made

[crisp jackal]

I tried to read back the thread but discord app makes it quite difficult, what’s the take on the theme?

[lavish carbon]

https://github.com/haxecollab/ludum-dare-56/pull/29 @pure ruin

first contribution pr lol

[lavish carbon]

https://github.com/haxecollab/ludum-dare-56/blob/main/TODO.md scroll to the bottom of the file

[crisp jackal]

Thanks

[teal ravine]

what is the purpose of this?

seems like it is only used once and can be easily removed

[ruby grove]

i think that allows it to access like most vars i thinkkk so that it doesn't yappity yap yap about some shit ig

[north sage]

heard of that, it's a common technique in FNF mods

[ruby grove]

idrk 100% of the stuff tho, dont blame me

[north sage]

to access playstate variables from outside of playstate

[teal ravine]

that is what public is for tho lmao

it is completely useless

oh i see what you are doing

yeah that is fine, i would probably just past it through the constructor tho

[lavish carbon]

eh

[pure ruin]

neh I had to feed little one breakfast

[lavish carbon]

i like my habits

PlayState.self is imo better than passing in constructor

i could eventually make it a getter that does an unsafe cast but eh

[north sage]

i see, morning then

[ruby grove]

welllllllllll

i am shit at explaining

[lavish carbon]

also no not really fnf mods

[north sage]

where else then

[lavish carbon]

ive seen it multiple times elsewhere

i can't recall though it was a bit of a while ago since then

even though yeah its often used in fnf world

but anyways

lets not argue over something that silly

[ruby grove]

sorry if i like explain something very wrong

my main language ain't english

[crisp jackal]

The project seems very ambitious for a 2-3 days jam, is it? As far as I’m concerned I’ve been hit with covid again and mostly need to rest, so I can make a background music for the game but that’s about it all. Let me know if you have something specific in mind regarding the background music

[lavish carbon]

i feel like its hyper ambitious since we're apparently not a lot to participate

at least in an efficient manner

[lavish carbon]

also make sure to rest well

is there anyone to work i feel alone 😭

im not able to do everything by myself that's going to be hell

[cold estuary]

start allocation to eh

isn't Chris also working on stuff

[lavish carbon]

yeah but we planned to be much more

not sure if that's due to timezone though

and if anything the plan sounds really ambitious

@pure ruin i think we should go for something simpler for this jam

your ambition is great, but we only have 3 days

2 days actually

[north sage]

this can be seen in two ways, either ambitious or overestimated the contributors

[cold estuary]

its both

hence why the minigame idea was fine

[lavish carbon]

i mean to be fair

we planned to be a lot but i didnt know it was going to be slow

[north sage]

well think about it, only six* of these contributors are in this chat right now

[lavish carbon]

minigame sounded a bit complex

[final falcon]

dont make me join

[lavish carbon]

contributors.push(dazKind);

[cold estuary]

it wasn't complex, people just did what they wanted to do for themselves and put it under the collab umbrella

[lavish carbon]

yeah but then you'd need to think of around 15 ideas

[cold estuary]

the person making the minigame would think of the idea

[lavish carbon]

which yeah thinking we're only 4 right now

[cold estuary]

idea's are literally the easiest part of the whole process

getting shit done is the hard part 😂

[lavish carbon]

fair enough

[cold estuary]

but yeah, its cool

[lavish carbon]

still, i think we need a much less charged plan

[cold estuary]

maybe someone can spend time simplifying the idea

@ruby grove

you wanted to do something

take a look at the game plan and see if you can make it simpler

[final falcon]

Why is noone pushing / PRing the repo?

where are everyone's contributions?

[lavish carbon]

gone

people forgot

which is why im asking for a smaller plan

[final falcon]

nah, in these situations you just start coding till it's done

[cold estuary]

the issue there is sword gonna do the collab solo 🤣

who's around to do shit now? @here

[lavish carbon]

thank you nb istg

i was going to open arrow vortex

[crisp jackal]

SwordCollabWithSword

[cold estuary]

everyone gone on holiday

[north sage]

perhaps there's a task i can do? i'm not good with assigning myself anything

[cold estuary]

we need someone to simplify the game idea

if simplifying is too much, maybe generate a whole new idea

[lavish carbon]

im not even sure if chris would be ok with it...

[vivid ivy]

https://imgur.com/edlwBoe

[cold estuary]

but nothing is happening with how things are

tiny creatures, how about a mini pokemon game? that is easily relatable with a relatively clear objective list for peeps

[lavish carbon]

.. you're right

[cold estuary]

It's an idea but i don't have too much time as i'm switching between work and here

Art

• 2 creatures
• a simple map with some grass
• a player character with some basic animation frames

Music

• idle background
• battle

Gameplay

• Player can move along the map
• RnG battle chance if in grass

Battle mechanics

• turn based
• simple menu with 2 options (attack/defend)
• attack has a chance to crit
• defend reduces battle damage by 90%

[final bane]

90% is a bit too much imo

[lavish carbon]

@crisp jackal you're up for some tracks?

[cold estuary]

cross reference with chris, see if that's okay or simplify the existing idea but the above seems doable with a few a peeps and is easily splitable

[crisp jackal]

One track

[lavish carbon]

mmm sounds good

i can get someone else for the second one

let's wait for chris first tho

the idea is relatively simple so this can be done in a day or so

so i'll wait for chris yeah

[cold estuary]

but realistically people need to know what they're gonna work on

hardest thing with collab is workflow and communication

needs to be somewhat autonomous

[cold estuary]

bro, if you pick a 50% chance and against your opponent i think 90% is pretty fair ya'know

[north sage]

depends on the hp

[final bane]

90% negates most damage

[ruby grove]

what about %?

[final bane]

%?

[ruby grove]

whoops

my keyboard glitched out there for a moment

[final falcon]

Ok, i scrolled up for 3miles and read everything about the concept I could find in the repo. I have a lot of questions

[lavish carbon]

first being most likely how we're going to achieve all dat

[teal ravine]

seems like chris just kinda came up with something on his own?

[lavish carbon]

yeah

[final falcon]

https://excalidraw.com/#room=d28e96234d6f27f80c19,58zgpUY9F-Ych8XK98RDhw

sorting through things here

[lavish carbon]

.what

[north sage]

wait this is actually useful

i'm saving this site

[lavish carbon]

who are these people

[cold estuary]

daz and trolls(us)

accidentally moved something

[final falcon]

This is basically settlers or something

Resource Management

[north sage]

i think these plans are definitely overambitious sadly

[final falcon]

Feel free to mess with that excalidraw

[teal ravine]

this is great

i really wanna have all the characters following eachother pikmin style

[peak kelp]

Daz joined? OK, you guys are fine now... he'll write actual settlers over the weekend "for kicks" 😄

[final falcon]

nonono

Im just messing with the idea atm

it's a bit all over the place in my head atm

this needs a basic definition for the most basic gameloop so things can get attached to

[teal ravine]

this feels like a week-long game jam game

[final falcon]

like I have no idea what the puzzles are supposed to be, are these the "minigames" that were initially thrown around?

[teal ravine]

i think the only person who knows is chris

[north sage]

we need the lesser ambition of FNF in its ludum dare days

[cold estuary]

what about this idea is even related to tiny creatures? the tribes?

[north sage]

the characters only themselves

i think

[cold estuary]

oh shit does zooming for me, zoom for all of you? 😂

[final falcon]

yeah, the kids arrived

[peak kelp]

jesus... that why no one can have nice things

[cold estuary]

the only person who i'd suspect to actively make shit worse is eh

[peak kelp]

funny you say that, i thought the exact same thing...

[ruby grove]

no?

i am coding some things in my fnf engine dude

[peak kelp]

anyway, regardless who it is... nice way to make daz lose total interest in trying to help - he sorted it

[ruby grove]

check my discord rpc

[cold estuary]

I did say suspect not know

[ruby grove]

i just put in the score text and stuff in

welll

i think im gonna continue now

[cold estuary]

i can't see the whiteboard anymore it lags my pc 😂

everything looks duplicated

[ruby grove]

i will be putting my discord on dnd to avoid pings disturbing my peace lol

[final falcon]

just refresh, restored it

[cold estuary]

there's a ton of stuff here to do

[final falcon]

sketched out the most simple gameloop based on Chris' docs

Build puzzles, people

This is actually more Final Fantasy than Settlers

[teal ravine]

is anyone doing anything or is this dead

[lavish carbon]

yeah its kind of dead cuz we're waiting for chris atm

[teal ravine]

bleh

[pure ruin]

nothing is dead

[lavish carbon]

chris

we gotta have a smaller plan my man

your abition is great but unfortunately i dont think we're able to accomplish such plan in a short amount of time

Unless we maybe get like 30 arms

Simulatanously working

[pure ruin]

We didnt do the minigame idea because no one came out to lead on doing anything at all. I worked on this by myself for the first 8 hours or so 🙂

[lavish carbon]

well to be fair

your new idea is also a bit huge

we should come up with a smaller plan

[pure ruin]

No time to change the plan.

[lavish carbon]

it's not that hard to get a new plan

hell dazkind did it for us

no time to change the plan, but no time to finish this either if so

[empty palm]

Im making a game about a bad mannered shrimp fighting the urge to make out with hooks

[pure ruin]

Anyone that wanted to get involved with the direction, they probably should have have been here at the start of the jam. We had like a 4 hour open discussion after it started and not much came out of it.

I dont know what to say

[lavish carbon]

we definetly lacked of organisation for this jam, for sure

but hey nothing's lost yet

we can do the simplest parts of the current plan

[pure ruin]

no, people just werent here when it started

[lavish carbon]

and see what comes out of it

-oh

i mean

to be fair

timezones exists

i was sleeping, so probably other people did

[pure ruin]

so stay awake, its a friday

I hvent slept since it started

thats the nature of these jams

you cant start 8 hours after it starts

you have to come up with something right away

[lavish carbon]

do you think i have the choice not to sleep

maybe others yes

[pure ruin]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Thats just the reality of it.

[lavish carbon]

it's also a first experience for everyone here

right now its the evening for me

we still got a lot of time left

we can do something

[pure ruin]

ok, but dont mention because it was poorly organized

[lavish carbon]

sure

[pure ruin]

Everyone knew when it started. 🙂

for at least 30 days

In any case the negativity isn't helpful. The game is almost done.

[lavish carbon]

almost?

you've been working on it? i thought you were busy with the art

[pure ruin]

im not doing the art

I have 2 people working on art

the art is 90% done as well

[lavish carbon]

oh make sure to show progress

[pure ruin]

I just dont have time to organize the project and do 90% of the project.

[lavish carbon]

for sure

[pure ruin]

Minigames would have been fine, but no one stepped up with any ideas in the first 4 hours.

[final falcon]

You can still use the minigame setup for the puzzles

[pure ruin]

#1282493664068767825 message

feel free to read the chat from the start of the competition

[final falcon]

Im strictly talking from a perspective on how to distribute the work. People think in terms of modules and you need at least 3-4 different types of puzzles. At least I dont see any concrete concepts you made for them so source them out?

[pure ruin]

I wasnt planning to source them out

I didnt get that far

[final falcon]

So what's the gameloop? I only assumed things above

[pure ruin]

I got into gonna do this jam myself if I have to since no one was here from the start to really flesh out a solid plan

cant organize, design, and do all of the work

sword is the only one who really jumped in to help with anything so far

(like earnestly)

and I appreciate it, but I had to suddenly jump back out of do everything myself mode

and start documenting everything

so it might be a little jumbled

I havent slept in over 24 hours

[pure ruin]

sort of, it plays like an idle game with randomly generated and proceedurally generated content

most of that is done, I just need to start plugging it into a front end that is mostly non existent right now

the flow diagram isnt way off

you dont move around(explicitily)

theres one overworld map, your civ grows based on some of the decisions you make

win condition is to eliminate the gloom based on a series of proceedurally generated events and decisions you make during the game

[final falcon]

idle game? I dont really get that.
In any case, im not here to bash anything. Just trying to understand how the connections are made. At the moment I think the core stuff needs a simple architecture and battleplan so people can connect to the design & problems and get creative. TBH I dont think this jam has failed for you folks, execution will be quick once the core-idea has been established for everyone

[pure ruin]

lose condition is if your tribe gets wiped out

[final falcon]

So every "decision" either costs you or gains you people

[pure ruin]

over time

your population may end up starving to death based on bad decisions

or going to war with another tribe

you dont actually micro control any of this

you could play the entire game iwth nothing but text

like a mud

hypothetically

the front end just plugs into the data

and provides nice user interface/ux

the back end is what I've been working on

[final falcon]

can you document the attributes, actions and their positive/negative outcomes? I imagine you have a set of attributes in mind that model the tribe entity and which need to get influenced by these outcomes

[pure ruin]

Those are some things that I'm still playing with and balancing as I go. You can play the entire game in the console at the moment

(mith modified time multipliers)

This is a great discussion to have, it just should have happend 24 hours ago

[final falcon]

ok, I get you are going solo then

[pure ruin]

no there are a lot of front end tasks available

its just very difficult to switch modes between organizer/lead and work-horse

with the time available

[teal ravine]

ok, then assign work to people who want work

instead of just making a few vague overly-worded github issues

[pure ruin]

I tried that 🙂

actually sword did a decent job

The first task asigned to everyone was to come up with a game idea together, or come forth and take a lead on a minigame.

You know how that 4 hours went.

Ok, who wants to work on something?

[teal ravine]

people want you to simplify stuff

[pure ruin]

I havent heard anyone suggest anything with much substance in that regard

Open to ideas

[pure ruin]

except maybe vaugely under-worded suggestions like "hey guy, simplify stuff"

[crisp jackal]

I have done plenty of jams starting 8 hours after the start because in my timezone I had to sleep, this is alright. It should also be totally ok to actually sleep normal nights. I agree that the scope here is waaay to big imo

[lavish carbon]

Chris you should sleep

[crisp jackal]

(And I also agree that it’s still possible to still start a new idea now if the new scope is smaller, but anyway I’m just sharing opinions here as I can’t help much this time anyway, so not forcing anything)

[lavish carbon]

I know its the jam and stuff but you're ruining your health

For a game jam

You need to rest

[pure ruin]

All ears on new ideas.

[crisp jackal]

For sure the collective jam with people from all around the world with different timezones is rather challenging

[teal ravine]

i was in favor of just throw everything at the wall and see what sticks

[lavish carbon]

Oh, smaj is in the vc

[lavish carbon]

I just really think this was due to timezones

Like, looking at the history i think only logo and alory were participating?

[pure ruin]

and cobolt

[lavish carbon]

Oh, 4 persons

[pure ruin]

Thats why I tried to have discussions before the game jam started

for weeks 😛

[ruby grove]

what abt me?

[lavish carbon]

Oh i dont think you were awake at midnight lol

[pure ruin]

https://github.com/haxecollab/ludum-dare-56/discussions/2

Okay

so I'm listening for new ideas?

[lavish carbon]

Im starting to think nearly nobody really wanted to work on this seriously

[pure ruin]

and who wants to do what?

[lavish carbon]

But yeah anyways

[pure ruin]

Exactly!

[lavish carbon]

I think we should just simplify our current idea

[pure ruin]

how

at this point if someone has some creative direction changes, they need to be concrete

[lavish carbon]

By turning "unrealistic" goals into something we can achieve within 24 hours

[pure ruin]

dont just tell me to simplify my idea, because im spent

[teal ravine]

do we have permission to simplify your idea

[lavish carbon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1282493664068767825/1292138310948356147/image.png?ex=6702a514&is=67015394&hm=b3a91ecf220385c4d0ad6a986dc2e4b1ebb1175877f881e6fd53c709ef1bafaa&

Dazkind made this tldr

[pure ruin]

he was just diagraming the flow of my idea

I dont see how any of it is simplified

actually theres extra stuff in there

[lavish carbon]

yeah i said tldr for a reason

[pure ruin]

yes if you guys plan on actually working on it.

so far it really just me and sword

[lavish carbon]

Oh i dont think logo is much experienced with flixel

[teal ravine]

i can implement stuff, if someone tells me what to do

[lavish carbon]

unless if theyre maybe fast enough to read 10 web page of documentation

Oh ok fair enough

Well, ill have to sleep soon

its midnight in a few hours for me

ill get back to the jam tomorrow

i would be satisfied if logo takes the lead while i sleep

[pure ruin]

I assumed by your comments you are not interested in doing much

[lavish carbon]

are flixel docs and concrete explanation of the idea enough

[teal ravine]

i can figure out technical stuff

i just need someone to say "implement player cujabulating"

[lavish carbon]

@weak fern can you skip roblox for tonight-

[crisp jackal]

For me the main issue here is that there are too many moving parts that require substantial work. If I understood it correctly, we are talking about narrative work with multiple dialogs (including a choice/condition system), different for each tribes, designing multiple puzzles which can easily take quite a lot of time (I'm assuming when you say the game working without the frontend doesn't have actual puzzles designed or dialogs written right? In my opinion these are the most time consuming parts).

But again, just sharing my views and won't be able to help except for making the bg music and hum.. giving more opinions 😅

[pure ruin]

its proceedurally generated, we dont create the explicit content

[lavish carbon]

Have you got any of the perlin noise code done

And working

[pure ruin]

Ive got most of the game working in the console, as I mentioned you can play it with just text

[pure ruin]

yes for the terrain map

[crisp jackal]

How do you come up with procedurally generating puzzles and dialogs though?

[pure ruin]

from a pool

a weighted pool

like, the game is basically done

[crisp jackal]

I get it, but that pool of content need to be made then, you need actual content there right?

[pure ruin]

at this point

yes, but we dont explicitly create every single detail because its procedurally generated it takes a lot of the heat out of having to do so

I spent the last 24 hours working on it

[teal ravine]

and why is it not on git?

[crisp jackal]

I am having a hard time understanding how we can come up with a system that provides engaging dialogs and puzzles that are fun to play with a procedural system and its pool of content, in a weekend jam, but willing to be proven wrong

[pure ruin]

im refactoring and getting ready to push it now

[teal ravine]

i'll review the PR if you want

[pure ruin]

would have but Ive been wasting the last 2 hours talking about nothing substantial

I'm still all ears on new ideas and simplifications.

Dont hate on me because I switched into solo mode when no one was really interested or here to help do anything.

I've just been focused on the entry

Please understand how hard it is to do all of the creative, all of the organizing, most of the programming, and assets 🙂

(not because I wanted to)

but because I would have been sitting here twiddling my thumbs otherwise

[ruby grove]

what tasks are open rn

[crisp jackal]

Idea of simplification:

• skip the exploration part -> focus on encouters with tribes, and the resulting dialogs

[pure ruin]

I think exploration is overthought there

you dont move a character around

[crisp jackal]

Yeah, not trying to undermine the work you have put, I believe you it's hard and challenging to organize it all

[pure ruin]

exploration as in, uncovering more of the game and learning about the other tribes

like I said, the entire game can play like a MUD

[ruby grove]

^^

[pure ruin]

it just needs to be plugged into pretty UI/UX

[crisp jackal]

what about the puzzles, what do you have in mind?

[pure ruin]

Creatively, I havent gotten there. I was hoping people would jump in more once I layed out all of the game framework in day 2(today)

[ruby grove]

soo i could maybe help with the player-movement code and the hud elements a bit

[pure ruin]

there is NO player movement

you havent been paying attention

[ruby grove]

wha-

uhm....

why..?

is the "player" supposed to stare at a game playing itself or what?

[pure ruin]

my plan is to push everything ive been working on, document and go to sleep for 8 hours

but so many distractions

[ruby grove]

then what is this game supposed to be???