💀 Cortex Engine

[molten sleet]

Should i stay with HL or go for hxcpp

[void condor]

wtf are filters

[ionic badger]

might be a new haxe thing

yeah... in a new project with just haxeui and ceramic in it. I get about 3s recompiles its pretty okay

i just saw daz's sub 1s refresh and got a bit jealous x)

[grizzled laurel]

seems to be related to DCE? could be wrong

[clear dome]

Run ceramic haxe server and it’ll use a server to build and make it even faster (but there can be bugs there too thank you haxe)

[grizzled laurel]

https://github.com/HaxeFoundation/haxe/pull/12087
https://github.com/HaxeFoundation/haxe/pull/12085
https://github.com/HaxeFoundation/haxe/issues/12109

that is what I think atleast looking thru PR's

[void condor]

here is a recent more expensive project. I blow most of the time in macros

[grizzled laurel]

I do wonder why filters is so expensive for NB

does # mean invocations?

[void condor]

these numbers dont add up

[grizzled laurel]

if so, daz has many invocations yet only 0.282s of time there

meanwhile NB....

[grizzled laurel]

yeah wait wtf

[ionic badger]

lmao

in the lil test project I have its just the haxeui buttons demo and a quad in the main scene

nothing big or heavy

i wonder if it could be resources... not resources

[molten sleet]

Gonna go with HL for now

[molten sleet]

I remember hearing a few things about a haxe compilation server

Where do i find more info?

[ionic badger]

its on the haxe site iirc

[grizzled laurel]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

both have upsides and downsides

personally I think HL's downsides farrrrrr outweight hxcpp's downsides

especially with cppia, hxcpp is kindof a no-brainer imo

[ionic badger]

the beauty of making your own shit is that you can always add or change it later tho

[molten sleet]

Only downsides i see with HL are lack of libraries and no cppia

hxcpp's compile speed is abysmal

[grizzled laurel]

which should be fixed with cppia

and HL has questionable support at best

externs for hxcpp are also way easier imo

[molten sleet]

I already learned how to make HL externs im not gonna give it up now

Questionable support or not, compile speed is really quick

I might add hxcpp support later for other platforms (e.g. web and mobile if HL doesn't perform well in those environments)

[grizzled laurel]

Peformance might not be the problem

But building for Android with hxcpp is painful enough as is

HL? Won't be better

And hxpp gives you more freedom overall

With HL you have this proprietary VM that only a handful of people actively maintain and also very few people are truly knowledgeable about it. Meanwhile hxpp gives you the freedom to run on many platforms and kinda do whatever

[clear dome]

As far as I’m concerned, I don’t NEED cppia for Ceramic because I have the web target, but it would be nice to have it at some point

HL support on non-windows os is also not very good

No reason to use it when there is hxcpp

[grizzled laurel]

Not saying few people working on it is bad, but it means that things that are not relevant to those people are likely not gonna work and resources about how to use HL effectively is scarce

[grizzled laurel]

This

If you support both cpp and js or cpp and cppia then I personally see no reason to use HL

[clear dome]

Thanks to ceramic’s electron integration, js and cpp output of Ceramic behave almost like native, with a window that looks identical and same file access

[clear dome]

Indeed

I'd still like to have cppia some day

[ionic badger]

fun fact to get cppia to work for me i had to remove the ceramic_cppia_host flag

[clear dome]

This is just because that flag is supposed to be used with other changes, not surprising

[ionic badger]

Ah okay

[crystal grove]

Practically HL for me using heaps is the same as JS/electron in ceramic. Fast compile, don't really care what target it is, don't need to think about asset servers

Similar enough to html5 export on OpenFL and Flixel

[void condor]

sure, makes sense. For me it is also about development and shipping. I wouldnt ship anything cppia and I know at least 5 other persons that have successfully shipped a commercial product using hxcpp. With HL Im not even sure anyone besides Shiro released something commercial. Everybody else seem to only tinker. I'd love to be corrected on that

[ionic badger]

motiontwin did as well

i keep forgetting dead cells isn't a shiro game

[void condor]

right! so we know that 2 studios used it. and they used it bc they know Nicolas personally

since Im not a studio and I dont know him personally HL is kinda pointless for me

there are more reasons, but you catch my drift

[ionic badger]

certainly not arguing for hl over cpp, i'm more of a "whatever works for you" kinda guy

[void condor]

true. I dont wanna come across as a HL Hater, but Im asking how I can take anything HL seriously when compared to hxcpp/cppia

[ionic badger]

I do think its a serious platform, the number of users who use it are small to our knowlege

but its reach is quite far, that in itself does give credibility

[pearl slate]

im certainly also in the hxcpp > hl camp

perf is better in my tests, extern dev is night and day

i actually wish the foundation had spent more time / resources on hxcpp than hl, as i think someone else had pointed out (Zeta perhaps) they are both doing the "same thing" in really different ways, so seems like uneeded competition

[ionic badger]

that is not a "waive it away" kind of figure, even though hxcpp probably does roundtrip that

[pearl slate]

im not sure commercial success is a good metric for tech stack tbh

[ionic badger]

i'm using it as a battletest metric

[pearl slate]

you can write a really fun, good, successful game (or whatever) on a dogshit stack

[lethal talon]

I have access to a faster computer now, and therefore hxcpp looks better now then HL.

I think they both serve Haxe well, having multiple implementations makes the ecosystem stronger

[ionic badger]

absolutely, but, if we're looking at stability i don't think i've ever seen any known hashlink game have a bout of angry users complaining about it

[ionic badger]

yeah, it would be nice if the foundation took additional responsibility over hxcpp with the dropping of some targets

community contributed or not, hxcpp adds a lot to haxe

[pearl slate]

i kinda used to think the same (that HL had a place, and 2 VMs are better than one), but now i actually sort of feel its fractured effort and given limited resources, i would certainly prefer a bulletproof hxcpp than hl - but as someone mentioned, above, its not going to happen because shiro is the driving force

if the externs system was better, i would be more sympathetic to hl probably

[ionic badger]

You know what i've realised a lot in the foundation in idle discussions

they really seem to have little idea how "deep" haxe stuff really is

[pearl slate]

in what sense?

how much its getting used and for what?

[ionic badger]

yeah, and what's available

[pearl slate]

right

[ionic badger]

it's a bit ironic

[lethal talon]

Well the foundation is a group of people, who looked the most clueless?

[pearl slate]

... ... ... they should read the roundup - although - Rudys here and hes always pretty engaged, etc - so they must have some idea

[ionic badger]

rudy is engaged but i'm talking people like simn and nic

i don't really know if rudy casually chats to these guys about haxe stuff

their primary exposure to "haxe stuff" is pretty much shiro and whatever sponsors are around (if there are any)

Not bad i guess, just probably contributes to the reinventing the wheel

altho i'm sure nic would just make his own version anyway

seems like the haxe way x)

[lethal talon]

Honestly I'm kind of a fan, having compiler and tooling close to the ecosystem makes it better overall

[grizzled laurel]

I think what the haxe team is doing is cool, however I don't think it is the best solution that could have been done

HL is cool but I genuinely don't see the point

Spending more effort on JVM is a better ROI (time investment)

That's my opinion atleast

[ionic badger]

haxe seems to be setup in a way where you just work on what you're interested in

then when times start to prompt a big focus, they put that effort into making haxe better rather than targets

[lethal talon]

Well the targets get updated if underlying functionality is required to take advantage of the Haxe changes

[tall veldt]

hashlink bytecode this, cppppia that, everyone just needs to do what kha did that one time and embed javascript into their c++ game and compile haxe to js for scripting

[lethal talon]

Why do any languages exist besides javascript

[tall veldt]

THATS WHAT IM SAYIN

[clear dome]

I compile haxe to js for scripting too lol, but the whole engine is script in that situation

No need to embed a js runtime to native

Just js everything

Anyway, on the topic, it totally makes sense to me that when you started creating a tool like Haxe, you value more in-house custom tech than « industry-standard » tech. So from that perspective, making HL is following the same logic. You know you won’t ever be blocked because « jvm can’t do something you need » and so on. Instead, you can shape everything in the stack yourself

[void condor]

hxcpp runs circles around that number. there are mobile apps/games with 100+ million downloads

my point being you have a lot of different parties using and contributing back to hxcpp over the years

but again, I dont hate HL or wanna bash it, I just dont think it is there where it wants you to believe it is

and when it comes to usability, cppia is so under-documented and different/low friction/integrated that it baffles most people that look at it with the expectation to find something like a lua scripting setup

TBS, I will write some docs soon

[pearl slate]

what do you mean by this? That its super easy to use but people arent aware of that?

[void condor]

yeah, and that it is also super easy to use it wrong

[pearl slate]

right - gotcha

[molten sleet]

HL's extern system is pain
Pure, documentation-less pain

[pearl slate]

yeah, i also just dont like the system itself, that you have to build that sort of "glue" code to box things between the VM and the lib

[molten sleet]

It is annoying but i think that's just because of the design - haxe doesn't map to C well

And
Stare at the hlsdl sources long enough
And you'll get the grasp of it

[grizzled laurel]

I think its fine, many ecosystems thrive because of it

I think the main problem is not the glue code itself

Rather that you have to do double the work

Externs on haxe side and the glue on the C side

[pearl slate]

i mean, thats what i meant (what else could i have meant?): its double the maintenance. I was going to port hxWidgets to HL at some point, played with the externs, it worked(ish) - but the burden of having to maintain two codebases (plus the hxWidgets itself - and for what reason?) was a "naw, im out" - i would imagine any large lib would be similar (there is scope for generation here ofc, like ammer, but im guessing its not as simple as it initially seems, given that ammer afaik is no longer in active dev)

[grizzled laurel]

Yeah defo

[ionic badger]

should see if hxwidgets works on cppia 😆

[pearl slate]

it should do, with relative ease (compared to HL)

just need to make sure "all the bits" are there and that should be it, the externs should work as normal

[molten sleet]

speaking of hl (10 hours later)

im mildly worried about GC and Map performance

[scenic fjord]

I didn't know HL was so hated

how is hxcpp better? (the only targets i used were --interp and --hl)

i loved HL because of how easy was to get an OpenGL context

[ionic badger]

they're not hating, they're stating preferences

and being objective

it doesn't mean one shouldn't use hl

[scenic fjord]

i don't know any better

I don't rape haxe as much as anyone else

[ionic badger]

you don't need to if it works fine for you

if you ever run into a limitation of either target, you'll know more

[scenic fjord]

coool

[ionic badger]

hl is still a decent target

it's just the new kid on the block

hxcpp is way more battletested

[scenic fjord]

why did HL come to fruition then? i like the coming hot reloading tho

[ionic badger]

because it solved things for them

that's all there is to it

[scenic fjord]

Oh.

[ionic badger]

These guys are smart so they can get away with doing what they want to do

[grizzled laurel]

i like that statement

because of how true it is

the whole crew at shiro is insane

[ionic badger]

Nic obviously has some vision for VMs

hashlink may not be as literally tested as hxcpp, but nic also has the neko experience

it takes "something" to launch a big company game on a "new" platform and not tank due to stability issues

[void condor]

i guess it was the combo of shiro and motion twin that gave HL the boost it needed.

[ionic badger]

quite a high risk endeavour

look at no mans sky, i don't even play games much and remember how big of a failure that game was at launch

[void condor]

not their first rodeo since they operated on tech islands for most of their existence. just check the insane amounts of webgames that happened at mt

https://github.com/motion-twin/WebGamesArchives

they even built their own minecraft in space... in flash 😄
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRQ6XE6K-wQ

[ionic badger]

oh wow 😄

[clear dome]

MT have been very prolific for a long time yeah. They definitely know what they are doing

HL is alright imo, it's just focused on their needs, so if yours don't align with it, well, no luck

The fact that I'm mainly working from mac has been making HL toolchain quite cumbersome for me, it always lags behind compared to windows support

And even without that, when you use heaps, it's been many times where you needed to use bleeding edge HL to use Heaps, sometimes it's not easy to keep up when you are outside of their own context

Back before Ceramic existed, I considered using Heaps (and HL) but as my main platforms at the time were mobile, didn't dig further. Building for Android/iOS with Heaps was definitely not an easy path that is well supported

(I wonder if this has improved since then)

[crystal grove]

Nah you still have to use a random fork of heaps to compile to mobile

[molten sleet]

zyheaps or smth?

[crystal grove]

Yeah that one

[molten sleet]

i went looking theres like

5 android heaps libraries

with heaps having a "WIP" official one (no commits in 7 years)

HL/JIT is only on desktop
for literally every other target it HAS to be HL/C

Web, Andoid, Non-ARM

i wonder what the compile time is gonna be like

[grizzled laurel]

Hey daz, I have a question for you. I'm currently looking at shader cross-compilation and I could go for the Spirv-cross/glslang combo but I am down to experiment a little and I have a feeling figuring out how to build the whole chain of glslang, spirv-cross and spirv-tools might become a bit painful.

So here is my idea: repurpose #1338080465642328134 to emit glsl (specifically ESSL/GLSL for GLES2 and GL 3.3+)
I know there are alot of weird little things with shaders and that it is probably wayyyyyyyy more hassle than it's worth. And it would never be as good as existing solutions.

My question to you: Have you tried to make your own shader cross-compiler / language before, if so what was it like?
And the second question: Do you know about other good alternatives to Spirv-cross/glslang? I have looked into a few other options like glsl-optimizer (based on Mesa's GLSL Compiler) and a few other projects here and there. If possible I'd like to avoid calling external CLI tools.

To conclude this message, if I do go through with this I might regret it later, but that is part of the fun 😄

[void condor]

short answer: No, not really. Was never interested in designing a language/compiler. I wrote some stuff for creating AGAL assembly shaders but that was mostly basic pre-processor stuff.

I guess one of the more interesting/esoteric projects is HxSL.

https://heaps.io/documentation/hxsl.html

[grizzled laurel]

I see, what about the second question? And do you think the idea of writing your own (basic) shader cross-compiler (syntax and feature level of possibly GLES 2) is worth it and/or feasible.

[grizzled laurel]

I did take a look at that along with HGSL (from saharan, creator of Oimo physics) https://github.com/saharan/HGSL
But It would not be ideal for me considering the fact that I use IntelliJ Idea (and the plugin for it) which has no macro support.

[void condor]

personally I have no interest in the whole shader language topic. I guess thats bc for me there is little creativity involved and it boils down to an unbelievable grind. But if you like messing with languages and optimizations it's definitely a cool use-case for your own language/compiler

[grizzled laurel]

I see

Thank you for your input 😄

[green breach]

Rob has his own Kong shader compiler thing

[clear dome]

Hxsl seems cool, but apparently it’s quite tied to heaps so it’s not easy to set it up for other tech. I have been wondering about what solution to adopt myself for Ceramic, and a shader cross compiler that takes glsl as input seems the most pragmatic approach. Cli tool is fine for me. Same as daz, not particularly interested into reinventing things in that field, just want a reliable and portable solution

[grizzled laurel]

I did take a look at that just now, it would probably fit my use-case

[grizzled laurel]

I see, that makes sense

[clear dome]

Ah nice, but I think I want to stick to glsl, something I know. Just need to transpile it to other stuff (unity shader, mostly, as ANGLE is bringing glsl at runtime already on mac/win)

Taking a look at this: https://github.com/alaingalvan/CrossShader

Looks like it could be an easy-to-hxcpplinc lib that could be used from my ceramic c++ cli

(But maybe it’s better to directly use spirv idk)

[clear dome]

Might try something with glslc (google) + spirv-cross at some point

[hollow spindle]

You got so much dedication for this man, those ui transitions are so satisfying

[molten sleet]

something i dont really get

the format library

who would read PNGs directly in haxe?

why not use a native lib?

[void condor]

I used it in cases where I didnt have a decoder available and needed a quick parser. But it's a tad slow compared to target specific implementations

gah, im really trying to like gimp, but what the fuck man, I place a font element, then I wanna select a font and it's not a dropdown but a textfield and if you type searching your font, it displays a 3km high hovermenu tooltip WITH ALL FONTS it found, no scrollbars ... I dont even see the result that is closest to my search

also it doesnt remember on which screen it was started/closed the last time and always moves to the last screen in your display list. Why is it so hard to spawn on the main display

gah, time to uninstall once again

[ionic badger]

you don't see the utility in a framework agnostic image library?

[molten sleet]

i see why it'd be useful but

haxe's kinda slow

compared to C/C++

[ionic badger]

what does slower have to do with being useful

[molten sleet]

typically you'd want programs to be fast

[ionic badger]

slower doesn't mean unusable

a bike is slower than a car, doesn't mean you must use a car

[clear dome]

Haxe can perform very close to C++ if you write it with that intention

But of course regarding png decoding, c/c++ libraries might take advantage of further optimizations

You can always use a native c/c++ one and fallback to a haxe-written one if you want to target languages that don't have a native png decoding implementation

[neat smelt]

As long as it's fast enough for purpose, it's more important to me that the program is maintainable and if needed portable

[molten sleet]

Fair

[crystal grove]

Sometimes you don’t want to think and format is pretty straightforward

[void condor]

ok, time to put a lid on this css madness. 3 items left on the list:

• add a custom parser for that transform nonsense
• rewrite the animation actuator
• add sort and mark all 90 directives with their transitionable type

[clear dome]

dazWebBrowser

[void condor]

dazAwesomeUiApps

[clear dome]

Don’t you want to knock at the chrome dev team door 😂

[clear dome]

I want to see dazAwesomeGame heh

[void condor]

Fuck G00gle. Had the pleasure of having a casual business dinner with an engineering lead the other day. These guys are soo full of themselves

[clear dome]

Just joking of course. I find it funny that Google, as massive as it is, is a competitor on the same thing I’m doing at work with a very small team, and I also don’t fancy working for Google at all

[molten sleet]

google is evil :3

[void condor]

took 3 questions and he sat there naked. strip away the corpo identity and most of them are pretty.. sad

[void condor]

the usual. google defines itself as slimey mold in terms of company culture, go figure 😄

everywhere, totally chaotic, conflicting agendas but in sum pretty successfull bc too big to fail

but nothing a fine flamethrower cant handle

[void condor]

a bit more tech required before I can show it off

[molten sleet]

whats the thing that allows you to set a git library in dependencies of haxelib.json

[clear dome]

I understand, I really do 😂

[shut oracle]

your text editor 😅

[molten sleet]

._.

how do i do it tho

isnt it like
git:gitlink or something

[clear dome]

Yeah, that’s not so surprising I guess. I think I would be sad too if I were working there

[shut oracle]

Yeah, its the same syntax as -lib except without the library name. It's shown on this page under Using haxelib with git versions:
https://lib.haxe.org/documentation/per-project-setup

[molten sleet]

thank you

[shut oracle]

it would be useful to add that to the other documentation pages

[molten sleet]

doing something wrong

dont know what tho

[shut oracle]

i think its just a warning in the editor, but the syntax looks right

[molten sleet]

yeah haxelib didnt complain

okay the warning is annoying me i'll just handle it in the build script

[shut oracle]

this seems to be the cause of the error: https://github.com/HaxeFoundation/haxelib/blob/development/schema.json#L103-L111

[void condor]

interesting, Single is not available for Macros

[clear dome]

Curious to know why you’d need it

[void condor]

was using it in some math-classes. converting css to values in my xml macros

[clear dome]

typedef Single = Float then? 😅

[grizzled laurel]

Yup, once spoke to an Google emoloyee and the only thing they found a valid programming language was go... That engineer specifically was also a bid rude as they really only found their own opinion valid or even worthy of discussion (anything I said or the other person I was speaking to the google employee with was ignored)

[grizzled laurel]

I'm sure there are alot of lovely people though

[molten sleet]

https://github.com/CCobaltDev/GameOfLife/

got bored

[lethal talon]

you can use git submodules

[ionic badger]

look at haxe, basically a team of 3 people vs google

[void condor]

You know are working on a real problem when you ask your LLM about it and it locks up in an infinite reasoning loop

[clear dome]

Lol, yeah, it can mess things up pretty quickly

I stopped asking it things with « too complex context », but it’s been very helpful for lower-commitment tasks that still require a load of code to work

[void condor]

ok, the css transform stack works

though, the origin should be centered

at least we can interpolate shit now

[void condor]

hahaa, this is awesome

[clear dome]

Something weird in the outside part of the red border no? Looks like inner blue background is bleeding outside borders a bit

[void condor]

oh that's simple rounding errors due to antialiasing and nanovg trying to be smart. nothing that bothering me right now

[ionic badger]

super cool use case for ai i just had, i gave it a list of ingredients in my cupboard, and asked for it to provide me a list of dessert recipes

i literally had an idea for an app like this years ago, so damn cool

oh.. and no blog fluff piece about how some cookies changed your life!!

[neat smelt]

Recipes can be protected under copyright law if they are accompanied by “substantial literary expression.” This expression can be an explanation or detailed directions, which is likely why food and recipe bloggers often share stories and personal anecdotes alongside a recipe’s ingredients.
https://copyrightalliance.org/are-recipes-cookbooks-protected-by-copyright/
Funnily, the blog fluff piece is probably to protect against infringement...but the AI can sidestep that.

[ionic badger]

what does copyright laws have to do with cookies

I can't eat laws

whatever the reason for it existing doesn't make it less noise

[molten sleet]

Pay $10/month to access the cookies

[neat smelt]

The recipe for the cookie is available because it's profitable to provide. The profitability is protected by the copyright. The copyright is made valid by the anecdote. The AI ignores the copyright, providing the recipe from data it scraped without the original publisher(s) being able derive profitability. The progress of cookie science is disincentivized. Baking stagnates. The world of desserts crumbles and is carried away by ants.

[ionic badger]

I'll just ask the ants for the recipe

I'm sure they'll give it to me

The best recipe is probably 400 years old anyway

and everything modern is just a remix of previous genius

[void condor]

LLM recipes can work as long as it doesnt hallucinate battery acid into the ingredients 😜

at work we also found a pretty nice product use case for a LLM that we are currently validating. sadly cant share any details yet

[ionic badger]

These things are so useful in the right hands

How does your local setup fail vs the online ones Daz?

fair*

[void condor]

it's ok. local is limited by the gpu resources you can throw at it.

a big model will limit the context size available. you need to dial it in well

[ionic badger]

what's the pro of local vs online outside of privacy?

ah

does sound very useful

[void condor]

its very wasteful tech

[ionic badger]

how so

[void condor]

energy draw, a gpu will get maxed out for every peompt

[ionic badger]

wow, its that resource hungry huh?

for a few seconds?

[void condor]

depends on how you drive it. you want the most tokens per sec in/out. if you add an agentloop for tools/mcp then it multiplies

[ionic badger]

local defo out of scope for me then

at least for now

[void condor]

nah, defo try it

[ionic badger]

one day, but maybe not yet

i'd also like to look into a semi local model

[void condor]

gets you a better idea and you can learn a lot about how it ticks

[ionic badger]

a cloud hosted one, see what the cost efficiency there is when I can utilise someone elses cheaper electricity access x)

[void condor]

hosted is heavily subsidized atm. its bonkerz, they cant sustain that pricing in the long run

[ionic badger]

take advantage for the short term, or just find a vps with sufficient hardware for your needs

vps are quite stable these days

[void condor]

sometime I think I should look into a virtual LLM that is distributed across machines/devices

then let people sign up their hardware and pay them from the subscriptions of the llm users

[ionic badger]

a funky p2p ai assistant? 😂

[void condor]

crypto backed p2p ai assistant

[ionic badger]

an actual decent use case to rally a botnet!

[void condor]

I think it could work by stripping LLMs and Crypto to the bone and mixing it with a little multiplayer gamedev

[ionic badger]

the game will most certainly get hacked

[void condor]

it cant, it's crypto, hackers will hack others to join the network to make money from foreign hardware. Awesome for the subscribers, more hardware & quicker queries

instead of mining, the machines generate partial tokens

IT'S BRILLIANT

hang on, im on the phone with ycomb

Got an seed offer for 120million for 0.2%, they want me to ship next week

[ionic badger]

🤣

[void condor]

You looking for work?

ok, stopping now. This might sound like satire, but dude this is how this shit rolls

[molten sleet]

free protein

[ionic badger]

given how things "look" atm i can see it being true

[molten sleet]

I worked a bit more on my Game Of Life impl - reworked the population counter and added zoom and speed controls
also set the size from 20 to 250

[ionic badger]

crypto in gaming has massive implications imo

defo something that hasn't been explored yet

[void condor]

crypto in gaming? hasnt that already been pulled through the gutter with metaverse and all kinds of weird mobile shit & glorified browsergame mechanics

[ionic badger]

yeah but that's just the buzzword beginnings

the actual decent thought and executions has yet to come about

also mobile games are barely games

i'd class them more as time fillers, distractions or skinned gambling apps

[molten sleet]

(turns out 1000x1000 halves the fps - I should probably use a bitset instead of an std::array<bool>)

[molten sleet]

so time wasters

[ionic badger]

not necessarily

because i think people play them because they want to "waste time"

so in a weird way, it isn't actually a "time waste"

[molten sleet]

(then again 1000x1000 is pretty huge)

[clear dome]

What's actually fascinating with bitcoin is that it works even when nobody trust each other

[ionic badger]

trust isn't necessary when the ledger is available for everyone to read

[void condor]

slowly getting there. transforms are now properly transitioning. 🙂

[grizzled laurel]

What would be cool is something like a continuous property: if the value of something like a slider is changed while the animation is playing it should look at what point of the animation it would be at the current value (of the animation) with the new slider value and revert back to there instead of restarting the animation

This means the animation duration won't change when changing the value while the animation is playing

And it should also not jump

Sorry if it's confusing, I'm bad at translating thoughts into comprehensible English.

[void condor]

^^ not sure what you mean. there are no css animations in that vid. it's all transitions, meaning I just change a value and it interpolates from where ever the value currently is to the new one

what you proll mean is that rate of change is not constant over time

but that is on purpose, since CSS transition-time works like that

[grizzled laurel]

Yes I ment transitions

So if I saw correctly it currently restarts the animation when you change the slider's value right?

[void condor]

if you mean by "animation" the change over time + easing that gets applied to the attribute, then yes

now the boxes react to being clicked (:active in the CSS) and run the transition

fuck I dont interpolate the rotation correctly

fixed

[clear dome]

Ah that's a common one 😛

[void condor]

yeah, shit gets normalized into unit circle when building the matrix stack, but since i decompose it again I need to reapply the actual ranges afterwards again

[grizzled laurel]

Yes, so what would be nice is to have some kind of property that makes it so it doesn't restart, and instead tries to smoothly go to the new value without jumping

[void condor]

ò.Ó, i think you are misunderstanding what is happening there. check the following vid.

you have a start and end value but you can define an easing function that can do all kinds of things, like linear, jump, bounce, etc

[grizzled laurel]

Yes, I understood that

But something that happens alot is the user clicking on the slider again while the slider is already transitioning

[void condor]

ok, lemme demostrate with a super long transition time

[grizzled laurel]

can you demo with a non-linear easing function?

[clear dome]

It’s just the easing that is « easing in » at each click, but indeed that resumes where it was on subsequent clicks

[grizzled laurel]

So if I look closely, the "timer" of the transition gets reset on clicking

because it ramps up in speed again after every click?

right?

Or am I just braindead?

(wouldn't surprise me)

[void condor]

every click it applies the transition time to whatever delta there is. that is why small deltas cause slower motions while bigger deltas cause higher speed motions

[clear dome]

It’s the same behavior as css transitions so far

[grizzled laurel]

Then I guess I'm braindead

[void condor]

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/transition-duration#example_showing_different_durations

im gonna look into this. the 4s animation seems to not take 4s if I disrupt it halfway

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/CSS_transitions/Using_CSS_transitions#using_transitions_to_make_javascript_functionality_smooth

this seems to be different, just like I implemented

1s to complete the animation over whatever distance

https://www.w3.org/TR/css-transitions-1/#reversing

these fucking people

[grizzled laurel]

yeah that is exactly what I felt like what was lacking

[void condor]

u r not braindead, for fixed intervals & reversals browser do it like you assumed, but for dynamic stuff it's what I have here.

[grizzled laurel]

but not only for reversing but also keeping the "velocity" when the actual new value changes

[grizzled laurel]

Ahhhhhh gotcha

[grizzled laurel]

I guess that makes me autistic then 😛

[void condor]

it hurts my brain, I dont wanna add this reversal stuff

[grizzled laurel]

i also find this reaction mildly funny

xD

[grizzled laurel]

it hurts to implement (i have before) but it plays a really important role

let me show an example of one game that handles transitions really well (spoiler alert: its my favorite game)

especially the large panels for wiki, beatmap listing and dashboard are cool

another good example

disruptions of the transitions feel smooth

it really feels like there is some kind of "velocity" in the transition

shows how important reversing and proper handling of disruptions are (imo)

[void condor]

it's actually not that complicated. I just dont want to rebuild the w3 css spec in this case

dont think osu! does that reversal logic, but rather have velocity/speed based animations instead of time-based ones

Ill just introduce a transition-mode flag where this can be toggled

[grizzled laurel]

If you added velocity based animations that would be extremely cool

[grizzled laurel]

Good question, I'll check the source tmrrw on github

[grizzled laurel]

Sick :D

[clear dome]

That's cool, but you definitely don't need a whole CSS animation system to do that xD

[grizzled laurel]

Most definitely not

But if it could do something like that video in a reasonable way, I'd reckon that would be a good test of UI stuff overall

I see very complex transition and such all over many 3d games

[clear dome]

In Ceramic you can use VisualTransition for that kind of stuff

[clear dome]

The default behaviour is that if you interrupt a field transition (to create a new one) it starts from the value it was, using the new easing you provided

For more fine-grained animation, you can go one lever lower using a Tween directly and interpolate values as you want

So far it's been flexible enough to do whatever I needed

[void condor]

Just realized that bgfx powers Guild Wars 2

[ionic badger]

ceramic with cortex backend defo seems like a cool collab 😂

[lethal talon]

YESSSSS

[clear dome]

I just want to create a game you know

[green breach]

You aren’t allowed

[lethal talon]

The tooling comes first!

[ionic badger]

I just want to trade but i'm making an elaborate application that is defo not necessary

unfortunately we're silly people

or fortunately

[lethal talon]

Tooling is awesome

If we all made games and end products, they would be bad because of no one focusing on tooling.

[ionic badger]

hmmmm

the first game that started all this can't have had tooling tho

[clear dome]

I'm more on the team that you need to eat your own dog food, so creating tools because you actually need them in order to make something else with it (like a game) is good. Creating tools for the sake of it or tools that you don't use yourself is fine, but afaik it never worked like this for me

[ionic badger]

i agree with you

[clear dome]

(don't get me wrong though, I enjoy a lot the process of making tools)

[ionic badger]

tools are super fun

[clear dome]

(except when I fight with rendering code on android heh)

[ionic badger]

but i do believe to make an exceptional tool one has to use/need it

[clear dome]

Or you need to have a user base that needs it and be very attentive to their feedback, that can work too

[ionic badger]

it can get very hard though

[clear dome]

yeah it's harder that way I agree

[ionic badger]

you either end up adding everyones requests and the app becomes super bloaty

or you end up with a bunch of features that only 10/10000 people use because you can't distinguish what's important and not

[clear dome]

Oh this can be avoided even in that context, you can still care about your project architecture and sanity even if you are not the user

[clear dome]

Given that I have been in that situation many times for stuff that is used by clients, the "importance" of a feature is somewhat linked to the size/income potential of the client xD

[ionic badger]

haha

[lethal talon]

Yeah having a single direction of the tool with a goal is way better then a tool searching for one

A tool searching for a problem is rough, and that's what you get most of the time when you build for others.

Because other people's problems are not nearly as tangible as your own.

It's easy to have a feedback loop with yourself, exceptionally hard with others.

[ionic badger]

everyone pulls you in different directions

it becomes very hard to navigate

[lethal talon]

I've been listening to a lot of the creator of elixer recently, and I love his approach to that problem.

[ionic badger]

it is possible to manage, but takes a lot of attention

[lethal talon]

He decided to just make the project as decentralized as possible and introduced meta programming so the innovation could happen in the ecosystem and he could just focus on the core language.

[ionic badger]

its similar to how i approach the server

[lethal talon]

I think that's so smart, he knew he would be too spread thin otherwise.

[lethal talon]

Oh please tell, because of the projects?

[ionic badger]

as little reliance on a central management team

limited mods

people who have channels just get to manage the channels how they want

i take on a small few

[lethal talon]

Yeah that's brilliant, it allows the community to grow much faster I think

[ionic badger]

and everyone just keeps the balance amongst themselves

[lethal talon]

And without as many problems over all

[ionic badger]

the issue with the moderation setup is that you end up following a status quo

it has to be that way, you get the perk of having a large audience

but i'm not really interested in tons of people and more interested in quality

[ionic badger]

both will have its issues

but i think the benefit of organic growth outweighs all the cons

people get to grow alongside others and i think that's cool

[lethal talon]

Longevity wise it's the winning strategy, programmers are like cats, cats are hard to herd, given some already goofy cases of people leaving and making a scene, I don't even want to imagine if this server was actually iron fisted in it's modding

[ionic badger]

cats are smarter, they understand if a place isn't to their liking they'll just leave and not cause a scene

[lethal talon]

I love this place because of that, I am a major fan of many of the projects on here and it's the only discord I use because there's no where else quite like it

[ionic badger]

if a human comes along and thinks the place isn't to their liking, they'll try to insist on changing it

[lethal talon]

Yeah good point

Also it's a huge motivator for my own project, seeing people build awesome things here too, it doesn't seem unproductive for intermittent use.

[ionic badger]

iron fist has its place, but, hard rules can't be used sparringly and i think with other approaches you have to have to be extremely rapid in your escalation

whereas in this setup, we can be a lot more selective with iron fisting

[lethal talon]

Yeah that makes sense. I see the reasoning behind rapid escalation to mitigate more issues and termoil around decisions, though it does seem like a lot of pressure, because it's often worse to second guess then do one action or the other.

[ionic badger]

there's always a price that has to be paid when you try to accelerate something

large audience at the cost of a lagging community

server grows too quickly and the community can't adapt to the size "atmosphere"

also in those kinds of servers, sharing other servers isn't allowed

here, as long as its haxe related and not advertised or spammed its pretty okay

it depends on how you do it, rather than a "don't do it"

[void condor]

I lack words on how awesome this is 🤯
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDD6izSZInw

[void condor]

finally. the refactor & clean up is almost complete. one more little bug and I can look at something else

[grizzled laurel]

dangggg

that looks nice

[clear dome]

Let’s hope that movie is finally released at some point

[void condor]

ahhh this is soo good now

[void condor]

woohoo 3 days hackathon with my teams and we took a crazy idea to mvp! What a fucking endorphin rush

[ionic badger]

3 days

dazTeam sounds op

[void condor]

#dazLeadsByExample #dazNeverGiveUp

[ionic badger]

😄

was it a hard grind?

[green breach]

[void condor]

not at all. we had a rough plan.

• first day total chaos, like rats in a maze, overdozing on libs, architectures and shit
• 2nd day, sleep helped sorting ideas, hacks, prototypes.. agreement on a possible poc, fullstack punchthrough/e2e, early evening the "omg that that actually works, but holy shit this needs polish, maybe try something else?!"-moment
• 3rd day, again sleep helped, lets polish that sucker, replace/rewrite a few things, new repo, devops did their thing and late afternoon we presented our result and reviewed our initial plan. We did it and more. It's not perfect but feedback was positiv, off the charts 🙂

oh, not to forget, but we also ran quick Quake3 arena LAN matches after lunch. Happy to report that I handed out a few but long needed slaps in the form of rockets & railgun slugs

[ionic badger]

can you say what you did 👀

[void condor]

cant share details. But it's what I actually consider a good use-case for LLM based AIs/Agents applied to a business problem specific to our company.

[lethal talon]

Geil! That's an awesome sounding 3 day sprint :)

[molten sleet]

https://discord.com/channels/162395145352904705/1375267793053814856
and so it begins

[void condor]

Whats the point of advertising stuff in your nickname?

[pearl slate]

not sure what you mean "DazKind Cortex" 🙂 (or would it just be "DazCortex"?)

[void condor]

You know exactly what I mean "IanHaxeui"

damn, no more black coffeecups in the haxe shop

[pearl slate]

darkmode is popular 🙂

[grizzled laurel]

NOOOOOOO

[neat smelt]

I didn't know of the haxe shop...

[void condor]

guess I have to do my own

also this

😄

[molten sleet]

Prefixing everything with 'haxe' is gonna make me go insane
So the full name is only gonna be in the github organization

[tall veldt]

Hey yall what you talkin bout

[void condor]

? Im specifically asking why you add your project to your nickname here in disc, you are looking for attention for it or something?

[green breach]

yeah, blatant self promotion like that is kinda inappropriate for this server

[ionic badger]

I wouldn't say it has anything to do with the server

[void condor]

u shouldnt project random shit into my simple question

[green breach]

(i was joking check my nickname pls)

[ionic badger]

is joke another word for scapegoat 😄

[void condor]

I know your nick. Im asking since I wanna form an opinion about what im observing

not enough info to judge, yet

[molten sleet]

Ohh
I'm just listing what projects I'm affiliated with - not rly looking for attention i just did it for fun

[neat smelt]

It's handy for me because I can see when if a person talks about a project, if they're related to it

But I wouldn't put it in my own name if I had a popular project because people might bother me

[void condor]

This is what rolling dice feels like:
https://github.com/dotnet/runtime/pull/115762

[ionic badger]

my god

at what point do you say "hey... it might actually be more efficient for me to do the work"

[void condor]

there are several more PRs that all resulted in a complete clusterfuck. co-pilot "fixed" tests by removing them etc

[ionic badger]

lmao

[void condor]

in another it fixed its tests but broken all others

[ionic badger]

copilot opened the issue??? whaaa

[void condor]

it also invented APIs that dont exist, documented API behavior that was plain wrong, it wrote a OS match function for osx & ios that would make newer macs be ios devices in .NET

[ionic badger]

lol

[void condor]

yeah, co-pilot is using all your training data to become an autonomous agent to replace SWE

[ionic badger]

i guess this is a case of giving a hammer to a baby

[void condor]

gun to a deaf monkey on cocaine is a better analogy

[ionic badger]

😂

[void condor]

sad part: they will have AI write code inside M$, putting user through even more shit

[ionic badger]

it's likely why windows 11 is crap

I see this as a good thing in the long term though

[void condor]

and I get it, noone wants to write COM code, but AI is not the solution to SHITTY apis

[void condor]

we are likely losing a full generation of software engineers that we will have to recover from

[ionic badger]

it gives a chance for reclaiming some space for those who are capable

what this is basically, is the equivalent of a microwave meal but for coding

you're not going to be able to replace a good home cooked meal

[void condor]

but a good home cooked meal is not a hugely complex system, its a recipe, little to no change. Imagine we would create meals like we create software

[ionic badger]

but that's the point really

[peak kestrel]

a potentially poisonous explosive microwave meal.

[void condor]

I just dont think food/nutrition is a good analog to software & ai

😄

[ionic badger]

fast food, fast code

quick result, compromised quality

same end result

[void condor]

why would you get a new "fast code" when you can build a set of re-usable "code"?

[peak kestrel]

Yeah ... maybe.

quick result, compromised quality
same end result
Microwave food can be bland and non nutritious ... but at least it's mostly safe to eat.

Let's use them as a tool... not as some autonomous senior developer.

[ionic badger]

oh come on

its an analogy

it fits but it aint gonna be absolutely pin point on every detail 😂

these guys spent probably 1+ hours talking to a bot telling it to do shit for them

its the equivilent of waiting 25mins for a driver to deliver your burger that takes 20 mins to cook

[peak kestrel]

Hopefully it was just done "for fun" or to give ideas .... and they won't give him merge permissions..

[peak kestrel]

Hmm... all you food analogy reminding it's time to eat!

[ionic badger]

just finished my meal so its why food is on my mind 😄

but yeah, i do wonder, what would the ai give me if i told it to make a save state for my app

i recon it would try to serialise the whole thing and dump it

[void condor]

what's the challenge?

[ionic badger]

simple save and load chart objects/state

[void condor]

i see. you are using Serializer?

[ionic badger]

just json for now

not sure if its better to keep it that way or not just yet

[void condor]

I use https://github.com/proletariatgames/hxinflate from time to time

[ionic badger]

what should i consider for deciding to use a serialiser?

[void condor]

versioning, objectcount&datasize i guess?

[ionic badger]

versioning is cool

it's a new arena for me

all past explorations of serialisation have purely been theoretcial or for "fun" rather than practical application

so it's a different kind of approach to the problem

i'm storing in a mysql db if that matters at all

[void condor]

cool, i guess you cant really go wrong at the current stage

[ionic badger]

yeah, versioning sounds cool on paper, but i'm perfectly happy to break and rebuild currently as well

and i'm already considering redoing the base chart setup...again 😅

[lethal talon]

well that was funny to read, I hope microsoft continues to try more AI related things: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tay_(chatbot)

[neat smelt]

That gives me an ominous feeling

I don't have a way to explain it but I'm switching from github to codeberg now 😄

[ionic badger]

can't have nice things cause a small group of people want to break your nice things x)

at least in the free model

[clear dome]

Nobody is going to ever be responsible of software being shittier and shittier, that’s genius

[ionic badger]

'Ai wrote it, not me' 🤦‍♂️

[clear dome]

Last week I tried to « vibe code » a non-critical thing at work with Claude, just to see how far it can be pushed. It’s really not there yet. It has a huge tendency to overcomplexify things, and breaking something to fix something else over and over again, in a way that it just can’t make the whole thing work properly.

[ionic badger]

i tried repeatedly telling it that its solution wasn't good and it ended up repeatedly giving me past denied solutions

it didn't take too long for it to get there as well

it doesn't do context very well

not too surprising though

i find it works best when you're like 80-90% "there" and just need a small scope thing for it

[void condor]

I really like deleting comments

[ionic badger]

LOL

there's a funnier side to that

"we lack documentation"
"lets make a tool that can write it for us!!"
"...hmm... I don't like all this noise my code.... delete"

[void condor]

😄

comments are for people that dont like reading code 😄

[ionic badger]

its my code, i don't really need comments telling me what things do 😅

there are times where i think "should I just keep it there"

kind of like a reminder tag

[void condor]

oh I do this as well. I just need to search for "TODO:" and get stuff like this:

// TODO: what do we do with this callback?
// TODO: can this leak anything?
// TODO: WHAT THE FUCK! Move to config
// TODO: make sure we call this shit only once!!!
// TODO: what is this hack

[ionic badger]

i do do todo's

i never seem to actively search for them later tho 😄

i always stumble upon them by accident

[void condor]

I usually grab one after a break from the codebase to ease myself back in

[ionic badger]

ahh nice idea

i usually consult my list of things to do and pick something simple

the "real" todo list lol

[void condor]

xD

[clear dome]

« You are absolutely right, let me redesign the whole thing »

[ionic badger]

sounds like me 10 years ago 😂

or maybe from 1hr ago 😂

[shut oracle]

ive had this before too, its so annoying. The only rare time i end up trying to use an llm is when I've searched online for ages and i can't find the answer to what i need, and that usually means the llm response is going to be rubbish as well 😅

I'm definitely looking forward to a world where the llm hype is over and we can move on to better things

[ionic badger]

i'm honestly starting to form a habit of skipping search engines and going straight to llms, i haven't 100% converted yet but its certainly happening of its own

the llm saves me clicks, ads, junk content and summarises things

so if i just want an easy answer to something, it can be more efficient than google

[shut oracle]

its just so imprecise i find, Im not gonna believe it until i see an actual source so its usually just an obstacle for me rather than something that helps

[ionic badger]

its like the recipe thing i mentioned not too long ago, i've searched for recipes online for years. I kind of understand the process now, whereas giving my available ingredients list to the llm, it was able to find me recipes i've never found or gave up on sifting through the search results and they worked pretty good

[shut oracle]

I think im just put off by the fact that its not actually going to give true information, its just an llm so it's just imitating plausible looking sentences in a language. That and from the few times ive used it, it hasn't been that helpful 😅

[ionic badger]

it certainly isn't precise there either, i'm not sure whether that's the source of the content or the llm, but that's fine. I don't mind optimising a good base for something

[shut oracle]

I'm also wondering if the "no ads" thing might not be the case forever

[ionic badger]

depends on where you go, i think the big guys have kind of learnt there lesson a bit

they all have monthly charges out of the gate

and they all have capped free tiers

at least afaik

[shut oracle]

Apparently even the charged tiers are a net negative on profit, at least with openai

[ionic badger]

they're all still in r&d phase right now

so they're probably taking the hit, but, they're certainly not going overboard with the freeness now

[neat smelt]

https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=Gruntfuggly.todo-tree
There are some extensions that automate the TODO work flow

[ionic badger]

bro I don't want that!

[neat smelt]

you cannot run from TODOs forever

they will eventually overpower with sheer numbers advantage

[ionic badger]

it ain't running, it's just a nice thing to find in the wilderness

[crystal grove]

Yooo this would be so good for me

I leave todos like a responsible person and then never follow up on them

[green breach]

https://github.com/tsoding/snitch

this exists too

[crystal grove]

Lmao the urgency is based on how many O’s you have like todoooooo

Linking it to gh issues would make it worse for me, just being constantly reminded of todos like the previous one would work better

[void condor]

that's actually very good

[void condor]

the moment you realize that the duplicated events you are observing and considering a bug are actually due to event capturing & bubbling... and it's fucking awesome 😄

[void condor]

ok, building new controls & widgets is soo smooth now

[void condor]

w00t! another crazy bug fixed. The cocktail CSS selectors couldnt correctly match hierarchies involving pseudoclasses

so shit like this wasnt possible https://stackoverflow.com/a/7217397

[void condor]

finally reworked my rangeslider 🙂

consists of 3 controls, the background, the bar and thumb. with css you can easily animate/transition all kinds of effects

transitions & animations also emit proper events now, that way custom animations can also easily drive logic in & around controls

[molten sleet]

dazAwesome

[grizzled laurel]

is that the one you made for yourself?

im assuming yes considering the red-orangy inside lining of the coffee mug

[void condor]

yeah

[grizzled laurel]

looks sick

how expensive is ordering one of those from a company?

[void condor]

good question, lemme check how much

paid €17 for it

[grizzled laurel]

incl or excl taxes?

and shipping too?

[void condor]

incl tax + shipping

[grizzled laurel]

not bad

[void condor]

cups tend to be more expensive, but as always you never know if it's a good print till you get it

[grizzled laurel]

you satisfied with the print quality?

[void condor]

lookin forward to find out how bad my cortex hoodie turned out. till a few more days waiting

the cup is pretty good quality, like it

[grizzled laurel]

i see

pretty nice xD

[ionic badger]

oh no

someone I know is using AI as a way to evaluate their idea potential

well hopefully I'm just being skeptical and they make this real 😄

[void condor]

xD

lol, had to checkout some hardware at work today, reviewing the images I took and now I see Haxe snuck into the image 😛

[ionic badger]

lol

[clear dome]

How good is that laptop btw?

[void condor]

we run a few of these lenovo yogas, quite nice actually

[molten sleet]

SDL3+OpenGL quad moment

(also is it normal to have to call glFinish in your render function so it doesn't lag for an entire second when exiting)

[green breach]

Doesn’t your project have a thread now lol

[molten sleet]

this isn't lumina nor beacon

[green breach]

Ah

[molten sleet]

im messing around with opengl

imma add dear ImGUI probably

[clear dome]

What about the fan noise?

[grizzled laurel]

Does it have an ARM chip? If so how well does it work for day-to-day development tasks? (I'm asking because I saw the copilot key which is for ARM-based copilot+ laptops only, but that might have changed or I'm wrong entirely lol)

[green breach]

There are x86 copilot laptops too

[grizzled laurel]

With the key?

[green breach]

Yeah

[grizzled laurel]

Mine is cursed with an NPU but doesnt have the copilot key (thank god)

it does have copilot

[green breach]

https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadt/lenovo-thinkpad-t14s-gen-5-14-inch-intel/21lscto1wwus1

This has copilot key for instance

[grizzled laurel]

dang thinkpads still look as cool as they used to

are they still built like in the past?

Also WOW that thinkpad is EXPENSIVE for what it is

i5, 16gb, 256gb for almost 2k?

normal windows home

fingerprint sensor OPTIONAL

there is nothing notable about this on the surface

why is it so expensive

[green breach]

lol. It is for enterprise stuff. You can get them much cheaper used

Like $800

Hence why I am considering one.

[grizzled laurel]

Second hand thinkpad sounds like a great deal

or if you are willing to get something from 2021 you could maybe find something for free if you know the right people

[clear dome]

The showstopper for me regarding most (windows) laptops is their heat management

[grizzled laurel]

hahahahaha

yeah it's horrible

[clear dome]

Everything I tried is noisy or highly throttled as soon as you actually use it

[grizzled laurel]

when plugged in that is

my zephyrus G14 is actually reallyy good in terms of noise

i can't hear it 95% of the time

only when plugged in, on the dedicated gpu and gaming you can hear it

[clear dome]

That’s the main reason I stick to macbook pro. (I don’t love Apple at all, but they really did a good job with their M1-M4 ships)

(But the price tag is very high yeah)

[green breach]

I hope arm windows takes off enough, so then I can use their laptops on Linux.

[grizzled laurel]

my school said "the laptop had to be windows"

but that is bullshit as everything is web-based and most things can be hacked to work with macos

i've quite literally paid the same as an m4 macbook pro for my laptop

which is kindof dumb imo

If i'd known beforehand I'd have defo gotten an macbook too

[ionic badger]

either dual boot the laptop or just put a windows skin and never tell anyone

[grizzled laurel]

XD

well i have my laptop now so yeah

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[ionic badger]

but the school just wants to set the curriculum up for windows because it's just easier to manage that way

[green breach]

Can’t dual boot windows on apple silicon afaik

[ionic badger]

ah, must be windows laptops

or Intel macs*

[grizzled laurel]

looking at the apple website

a 24GB ram, 512GB storage 15" macbook air would've prob been better for school than what i have now in terms of battery life / portability / usability

oh well

[grizzled laurel]

What about a windows VM?

and what is the state of wine on apple silicon?

[clear dome]

That would definitely be progress yeah

[clear dome]

You can use arm windows on mac with parallels. Not ideal but it works

[clear dome]

Likely yes

I really wish overall build quality on windows pc was better, and cpu more quiet

[ionic badger]

is windows arm bad?

[clear dome]

It’s just probably asking for trouble with various software primarily designed for x64

[ionic badger]

my 15year surface book is pretty good imo

0 fan noise

high quality hardware

but i don't think they've really refreshed the surface book line in years now

they stuck with the surface laptops i think

it's a shame really

its a good laptop

9/10 times the tech or trends that I really like get cut

[clear dome]

Currently, I really think Apple is ahead regarding their cpu/gpu unified hardware. It’s just super pricey and very Apple-centric. I just wish this was more the default in general outside of Apple world

Discrete cards on laptops are also bringing a whole category of issues

[ionic badger]

yeah

[clear dome]

(And they did have bad series of macbooks, their intel based touchbar macbook were awful)

But their recent series are really good hardware if you can afford it

[ionic badger]

i hear they are also throttled hard

just seems to be the standard for quiet/thin laptops

framework laptops seem pretty cool

[clear dome]

Macbook air mostly maybe?

Because my M1 macbook pro 14 is still very fast and snappy

And if I do heavy stuff fan can occasionally turn on, but is still waaaaaay quieter than any pc I tried

Intel macs were throttled a lot however

Because it was getting very hot and noisy

[molten sleet]

i dont get the point of a very quiet pc

idrc abt some noise

besides

its good to know if your device turned on or not

fans spinning up

(for older devices) hard drive spinning

[grizzled laurel]

we aren't talking about PCs

noise in a PC is ok

in a laptop it is not so OK

can be very annoying because you use your laptop among other people (usually not the case with PCs)

[molten sleet]

even then its not that bad

[grizzled laurel]

laptop fan noise also tends to be way higher pitched

[grizzled laurel]

it is

have you ever sat next to someone with an rtx 4090 in their laptop? A power brick the size of an actual brick

[molten sleet]

i've never had a laptop with a dedicated GPU so idk

[grizzled laurel]

if you haven't then you don't understand

I can assure you it is way louder than any PC or laptop i've ever used

and my PC is pretty loud due to a half-broken water pump

being in a class with basically everyone having gaming laptops

trust me, it is distracting

[molten sleet]

whirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

yea i can see that now

[ionic badger]

I don't mind noise per say

but If I had to pick between noise and no noise

i'd pick no noise

and tbh, its less about noise for me and more about consistent noise

which is difficult for laptops in general

[grizzled laurel]

i can't even count the amount of times that everyone is just listening to the lesson and suddenly one laptop goes in overdrive

it's quite funny because suddenly you hear a supperr loud noise

[void condor]

I run a razer laptop with an integrated rtx 3080 ti. Battery life? What is that. Also you gotta speak louder, I cant hear you over the noise of my coolers and the extra fan on my desk that hauls air into it

TBS, I have an awesome noisecancelling headset and I listen to loud music all the time

oh, and concerning cooling, I dont use thermal paste in my laptop, using hair wax instead

[ionic badger]

lmao

[grizzled laurel]

lmfao

atleast you sound like a happy customer

[ionic badger]

have you got some kind of nitrogen setup

[grizzled laurel]

XD

unironically that does sound really cool (as a gimmick but still cool)

nitrogen gaming laptop

[void condor]

What started as an emergency replacement turned out to work for almost 2 years now. Can totally recommend
https://www.got2b.de/haarstyling/produkt/gel-creme-wachs/strand-matte-paste.html

[grizzled laurel]

I have a hard time believing that would hold my hair lmfao

[void condor]

it never worked for me as well

[grizzled laurel]

Currently using the strongest stuff Schwarzkopf has to offer

that does work well XD

[void condor]

but it has some shit in it for that matte look that totally allows for a good thermal bridge

[grizzled laurel]

wait you weren't joking

wait wait wait

[void condor]

im serious

[grizzled laurel]

surely you are joking

you use that on your razer blade?

[void condor]

not "on" but "in"

[grizzled laurel]

dazGyver

quite literally

[molten sleet]

this is very cortex related

[grizzled laurel]

how often do you remodel the hair of your laptop? 🤣

(aka how often do you reapply the paste)

[void condor]

it was the outcome of me spilling a full cup of coffee over and into my running laptop. had to take all apart and clean everything, then I realized I had no more thermal paste to refit the cooler/heatpipe. It was a saturday night and I couldnt get anything from a shop for 2 days, so I yolo'ed the hair wax

[void condor]

see, that's the thing, that was almost 2 years ago and I never replaced it yet

[grizzled laurel]

I'm genuinely wondering how you aren't in a psych ward yet.

🤣

[void condor]

can also recommend razer latops, these suckers are built like tanks

[void condor]

you sound like my girlfriend

[grizzled laurel]

yeah many people seem very happy about razer blades

[grizzled laurel]

She may be onto something

🤣

[void condor]

😄

[grizzled laurel]

Nah but honestly

you putting litteral hair gel in your laptop deserves respect

I've never heard anybody mentally unstable enough to try that

You deserve a sticker atleast

[void condor]

In my youth I tried toothpaste and banana, so Im not exactly a noob at this

[grizzled laurel]

that is mad work

[void condor]

tooth paste = 1-2 days safe work
banana = a few hours and very tasty smell

these days most shit has sensors and emergency circuits for overheating, things blow up way less often

[molten sleet]

thats diabolical

[grizzled laurel]

I don't want to imagine it

[grizzled laurel]

I do feel like it is a double edged sword though with all the sensors

For consumer electronics that means shit turning itself off

Which does happen on the laptop of a friend I have

But also at my job which I can describe best as "heavy machinery"

The newer stuff is overall less reliable as any small difference will cause it to halt immediately

It has like tens of not hundreds if sensors

Meanwhile the older shit has like 5 sensors

[molten sleet]

@grizzled laurel

[grizzled laurel]

It's not animated :(

[clear dome]

Good for you if you don't care, but I CARE 😄

[molten sleet]

i just got SDL_image working 🥲

[clear dome]

I have been using intel PCs and Macs for a long while (laptops), they all were noisy as soon as you'd do something taxing on the cpu or gpu, unless you set them in "quiet mode" but then they are slower (throttled). Then I got a M1 macbook pro 14, and it's 99% of the time totally silent, you can run very expensive task on it and maybe sometimes the fans will start making a very small noise. It's just so much better on a daily basis. I don't want to have to always wear noise cancelling headphones. The overall build quality of the laptop is also very good (which, again, hasn't always been the case with Apple, but current series are great)

The main downside is definitely the price tag

(but worth it if you can afford it)

[ionic badger]

I think these days, apple is more price competitive than most

[molten sleet]

im never using an apple product - period

intel has always been perfect for me

anyway

MKI mitosis

[clear dome]

Entry-level macbook airs are not that expensive for what you get for sure, but it's a bit limited on the sockets. Then if you want a better option, go with a macbook pro instead, price is rising very fast. There are for sure the highest tiers that are mostly useless for almost everyone, but Apple wouldn't miss any opportunity to get more consumer money and some consumer are willing to pay for it even if they don't need it 🤪

[clear dome]

Good for you 👍

[molten sleet]

glm time

[molten sleet]

time to make a sprite class so i dont lose it

[molten sleet]

the project is complete, i have a basic 2D renderer in opengl

[clear dome]

Ship it

I'll soon get my hands on a macbook pro 14' with M4 Pro + 48Gb of RAM. Curious to see how it performs with compilation speed, local LLMs etc...

[ionic badger]

48gb ram? 🤣

you have more than me on my desktop!

[void condor]

living in the future rocks

like 10 years ago i was convinced that laptops will always stay pieces of shit compared to a cool workstation. Now Im running these specs with my razer laptop and think of workstations being pieces of shit 😄

although I stull have a threadripper setup on my bucket list. too bad AMD sucks when it comes to thunderbolt

[ionic badger]

The thing I don't like about laptop setups is the always charging battery

So now you've got a job of battery management

so desktop as a battle station will always be a thing for me

[void condor]

what you mean?

[ionic badger]

plugged in

for home use

[void condor]

these days you have smart charging, my battery wont charge beyond a save threshold

[clear dome]

Yeah charging hasn’t been an issue for me with recent macbooks

[clear dome]

Yes, and it’s unified memory, so it can be used by both cpu and gpu, really cool stuff, especially if you run LLMs

[clear dome]

My current setup is macbook pro 14 with M1 pro and 32Gb ram. Already very good hardware I’m happy with, but I need to get another machine to split things more clearly between work stuff and personal projects, both for practical and legal reasons going forward

[void condor]

hmm, better than expected

lets see how this holds up after several rounds in the washer

[clear dome]

Do you plan to advertise your engine, so you are wearing the hoodie and stuff

[green breach]

https://maniacx.github.io/Battery-Health-Charging/

[ionic badger]

Question for you smart peeps, when you guys "read the code" is there a particular process that you follow? how do you "build the context up"?

I'm guessing its just read, reread and it happens of itself, but, just want to see

[void condor]

there is no concept behind any of this. I just do what my heart tells me to do

[void condor]

I read and establish a map in my head of the control flow & assumptions that I see

sometimes I make an excalidraw to create an actual map

concerning control flow, I segment shit into high level & low level to filter out stuff that I dont need to understand yet, otherwise I get stuck in details

[lethal talon]

Begins to answer sees the smart peep criteria

[grizzled laurel]

oh shit

my bad

i take my answer back then

[peak kestrel]

lol, you deleted your previous answer?

[grizzled laurel]

we do a little bit of trolling

I do still have the answer copied though :P

[lethal talon]

no you count

[grizzled laurel]

no no no

you count

not me

[lethal talon]

i on the other hand am a certified dummy :,]

[grizzled laurel]

cats with a fish are the real ones

they are the smart ones

i'm just a silly hamster (with a lazer)

[clear dome]

Yeah, for me that's pretty similar to daz'. It's mostly about having a mental map about what you are doing and the different moving parts. It's like you are zooming in an out depending on what you are doing, with more or less focus to some specific parts

[void condor]

holy shiiiit

I just fixed an annoying bug that was bothering me in my scroll logic for like 6 months. Was just messing with some code, scrolled past a location and was like "hmmm, ok, this is counter-intuitive, I need to reset the bounding box here..." <bug fixed/>

[grizzled laurel]

does your scroll logic allow scrolling thru dragging your mouse?

[void condor]

@tall veldt what ya doing, you type much too long

[grizzled laurel]

it's scary isn't it?

especially the small breaks in between

[void condor]

you mean touch-dragging?

[grizzled laurel]

yes

but also with the mouse pointer

[void condor]

by default no

[tall veldt]

If we're talking about reading codebases you haven't written yourself, it usually starts with a lot of searching. Github search sucks, so I usually download codebase, drag folder into Sublime Text, and use that to search since it just fast to open and use. All you can really do is search a public function name and see how it's used within the whole project.

Outside of that, I don't have a specific process, but I find it's heavily dependent on the codebase. A well-written project should be self-explanatory and all the pieces should be easy to understand without much context outside of the class/file. If not... welll sucks to suck. D;

[clear dome]

I just fixed my animation glitch bug too yay

[tall veldt]

I had typed for like 10 seconds by the time you wrote this, lemme cook for a second. Ya'll are funny

[clear dome]

Oh yeah, quality/readability of a project you didn't write makes a HUGE difference

[grizzled laurel]

reminds me of someone ranting about how reading code sucks

especially code you didn't write

especially when it's shit code

and the point of the article was to say that LLM's is quite literally centered around reading code and that it is dumb for writing code in general

and how its a mess

https://justfuckingcode.com

[tall veldt]

I feel somewhat happy with the codebase for base Reflaxe, I definitely need to improve the gdscript/C++ targets a little.

But in general, I find giving things very long names with simple words >>>> short or creative names

I feel like that's the best advice when it comes to writing your own code over everything else when someone else might read it

[grizzled laurel]

i love verbose code

[tall veldt]

Yeee

[grizzled laurel]

for example, i have a pool

you can acquire and release

you may also deferRelease

so what if you want to acquire and defer a release immediately

acquireAndDeferRelease

realistically you'll only type 3 characters anyway :P

[tall veldt]

YES I have a lot of these

[grizzled laurel]

just stupidly verbose and descriptive names

i love them

because you get extra info

and you dont type that much extra due to autocomplete

[grizzled laurel]

hell yea

[clear dome]

💯

I think I like conciseness, but never at the cost of making things more cryptic

Java-style yourOwnStupidThingProvider().getFactory().doSomeBullshit() is making me sick, but this is the extreme verbosity without actual upsides

[grizzled laurel]

I think the stupid patterns is what makes it dumb in java's case

[tall veldt]

Folder (package) names are also important and I really need to improve mine. Getting into a new project and trying to figure out what the HELL each one-word folder is supposed to refer to makes me go crazy. Cause you'll have a class of behavior that could technically fit in multiple categories, and things get all messy. Verbose package names are important but hard to change without breaking compatibility. T-T

[neat smelt]

I'm not of the smart peeps, but I make a lot of use of jump to definition/type definition/references, add many breakpoints as I go, and then use some test cases to get useful callstacks.
I need to see it in motion usually if it's not a simple code.

[clear dome]

Now when I see "Provider" in a name I am having a panick attack

[grizzled laurel]

That I 100% agree with

[tall veldt]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I open a Github page and can't even tell which folder is supposed to have the source code immediately.

[clear dome]

This was me when I stubled upon unity project, until I figured out everything is inside Assets folder, even your lunch is there

[neat smelt]

"code is an asset" is engine programmer for "you're not allowed to crash the runtime, only I may crash the runtime"

[grizzled laurel]

oh i have the perfect example for this

[tall veldt]

SAAAME

[grizzled laurel]

i feel like i have used this example too many times already

https://github.com/ppy/osu
tell me where it draws the circle that the player hits

good luck.

[tall veldt]

oh mai gawd

[grizzled laurel]

enjoy :)

[green breach]

i'm guessing benchmarks

alternatively ios tests

[grizzled laurel]

xD

[green breach]

haxe people have done pretty well at standardizing to src, just ignore openfl and kha

[grizzled laurel]

;)

[green breach]

and that lunatic ^

[grizzled laurel]

AHAHAHAHA

in case it makes you happy, genkit_miniaudio, the library you use in that one bell project uses source too

<3

[green breach]

ah just to mix things up

[grizzled laurel]

so just know you are using source somewhere in your project technically

making you a fellow lunatic

[green breach]

i keep my lunaticy contained

[grizzled laurel]

i doubt that

[green breach]

lol

[clear dome]

I have been questioning myself if "source" wouldn't be better, but I'm too far into the src land

[green breach]

src is faster to type

i need those precious ms

[grizzled laurel]

that isnt micromanagement

focus on the nanoseconds

[grizzled laurel]

great question

[clear dome]

surprise @tall veldt doesn't name his source srd

[green breach]

he would call it sourcaxe

[clear dome]

reflsrc

[void condor]

src ftw!

[clear dome]

dazSource

[void condor]

all the scrollbar math is correct now ❤️

a few more things then I can add the CSS directives. atm they emulate the browser and no extra scrollview or some other wrapper required

just a little overflow: scroll

[green breach]

ACTIVATE, damn you windows?

[ionic badger]

You count dummy

lots of nice responses in here - thanks!

[void condor]

gaaaah

I just had a legitimate use-case for haxe on nodejs

but given how fucked hxnodejs & dts2hx are these days ...

[tall veldt]

haxe barely changes so they probably work perfectly

@ionic badger Probably uses both for @vapid quail?

[green breach]

I have had no problems with hxnodejs

There is also hxbun btw