💀 Cortex Engine

[ionic badger]

i think that would count

[green breach]

the dream would be shared tooling, it is a bit silly (but understandable) that ceramic and lime have completely different CLIs

[clear dome]

The difficult part is that it's already so hard to make tools right

[void condor]

cortex contains many cool libs you people will steal

[lethal talon]

Yeah I get that, maybe the time can be justified by making the ease of use for users coming from other frameworks easier

[clear dome]

So you try to keep thing as simple as possible

And if you need to add to that mental load a whole stack you don't know, it can make it harder

[void condor]

but honestly, I liked the snowkit approach

[clear dome]

No surprise people are reinventing the wheel over and over in some ways

[void condor]

dump cool libs together and maintain them together

[ionic badger]

need someone to set a standard

but don't abandon it

[clear dome]

Yeah, I did try to keep that aspect of things with Ceramic a bit

[ionic badger]

snowkit did seem to have the right idea

[lethal talon]

Yes though I would suspect that the CLI part would be easier to have interopability then the rendering layer.

[ionic badger]

ammer did try to fill the gap a bit i think

but he went off for uni stuff 😆

[lethal talon]

Ammer would have been one of the best projects in the Haxe ecosystem, I am convinced of that.

[clear dome]

That's the thing, as far as I'm concerned, most of the dependencies I use are things I made or could modify myself, because if you hit an issue with something you can't fix yourself, it can be a serious problem

[lethal talon]

I thought you were using a lot of nodejs depedencies for the CLI?

[green breach]

rust kidnapped our aurel

[clear dome]

Like, I don't use lix because I don't want to add another layer of issues. The risk of things breaking is higher than what it brings (from my perspective, it can vary depending on the context or the user)

[green breach]

i want something lix-like to officially replace haxelib

[clear dome]

That would be the best option yeah

[ionic badger]

i think haxelib is close enough to being "that thing"

haxelib + haxemanager is a pretty good combo

[green breach]

lix has a pretty great design

[clear dome]

Not anymore, Ceramic CLI has been rewritten in Haxe/C++

[lethal talon]

I agree, I try not to expose it user facing, because I don't want to fragment Haxe more so then the current situation.

[clear dome]

(not released yet)

[lethal talon]

Oh nice!

[green breach]

i have been using the hxcpp version for awhile, works great

[lethal talon]

I had a small hope that go2hx could be used to bring in Go libraries that were similar to the nodejs deps for Ceramic but oh well, you are too fast

[green breach]

not sure how hard it would be to convince haxe devs to ship it by default. it is made by people with a higher profile than me and it hasn't happened yet, so the chances might be low

but just playing around with it for a bit, it feels so right

[lethal talon]

I think the best person to talk to would be @shut oracle about it, iirc Simn said he is looking to be the new haxelib maintainer, so he may have sway in bringing in something like lix for haxelib

[green breach]

i think a lot of it might be the node dependency

[lethal talon]

Yeah true

[green breach]

(might be go2hx's time to shine there, depending on what it is for)

it does make integration with node projects nice tho

you can just add it to your package.json

oh there is crobes, hi

[ionic badger]

I'm not a fan of lix

[lethal talon]

(It might be your time to shine too, because you can figure that out probably better then me, and cordinate what needs fixing for XYZ to work in go2hx to replace lix's usage of X)

[ionic badger]

i think it's a bit convoluted and also very buggy

[green breach]

From a quick glance, it seems that basically every class uses some form of js

[ionic badger]

(when i used it)

[shut oracle]

Yeah, I was working on some haxelib improvements, the most complex bit is haxelib git which I was improving but was blocked due to some neko crashes on windows, but those are beginning to clear up now so hopefully it will be possible to return to that!

[lethal talon]

Amazing! So you really are the savior of haxelib :)

[clear dome]

A neko-free haxelib would be so nice lol

[grizzled laurel]

daz go2hx ceramic reflaxe

on second thought, maybe these keywords shouldn't be made public, hihi

[lethal talon]

... for sure that's a +4

[green breach]

From a (slightly less) quick glance it seems like child processes, http, and zip/tar extraction are a big chunk of it.

[ionic badger]

👀

[grizzled laurel]

c-ramic h-xeui?

[ionic badger]

reflaxe testing

[lethal talon]

Which keyword are you tracking? 👀

[ionic badger]

typically none, but just testing things that people have issues with

[shut oracle]

That's the goal too, hoping to move to hxcpp or hashlink

[lethal talon]

I see, http is gonna be a while until it works, the other 2 are likely to be passing by the end of the month (assuming no change of number of contributors)

[lethal talon]

Why is eval off the table?

[shut oracle]

haxelib needs to be a binary

[clear dome]

child process is indeed one of the things nodejs was bringing to ceramic tools. Replaced it with linc_process

[clear dome]

That would be great, 100% with this

standalone binary

[lethal talon]

So if it is hl then a hl executable needs to packaged with hlboot.dat to make it into an executable?

[shut oracle]

Probably hlc, but we were also looking into this for a faster compiling alternative: https://github.com/HaxeFoundation/hashlink/pull/744

[clear dome]

Something that produces a exe that doesn't need any companion dll/data file would remove a lot of friction imo

So yeah hlc seems like a good idea

[clear dome]

no arm64 😢

[ionic badger]

they'll be a few sad peeps around here 😄

[shut oracle]

yeah, it would mainly be as a way to speed up compilation during development, with hlc for a full build

That's one of the drawbacks tho i guess

[clear dome]

Sounds like a good approach yeah

[green breach]

Gotta use reflaxe cpp instead

[clear dome]

To be fair, now I made two CLI tools with Haxe + HXCPP (ceramic, loreline). It works great, definitely a valid option

No reason haxelib couldn't be done this way, but I guess HL is more "haxe core" than hxcpp

[void condor]

only for the brave 😉

[clear dome]

Looks like a trojan name

[void condor]

totally installing a backdoor in your brain

it will crash I guess since I just realized an absolute shaderlook path is in there

ah, no it wont

[grizzled laurel]

does this mean im lacking a stupid amount of skill?

[void condor]

oh look it's running!

wasd + space, super mario those grabs

[grizzled laurel]

you should remove the ability to hold space

its a free score glitch

[green breach]

hmm i guess i can try running it in wine lol

is it possible to compile on linux?

[grizzled laurel]

also audio seems to be broken

[void condor]

game design is not finished. jumping will cost you

[grizzled laurel]

i dont hear anything atleast

[void condor]

audio is disabled

[grizzled laurel]

ahh

[void condor]

it can/will

press ^ to open the console

or whatever it is on international keyboards

there is also a project.cortex file, you can mess with, like switching renderers

[grizzled laurel]

what keycode is that?

^ doesnt seem to work

[clear dome]

I’m only testing web builds for safety purposes 😉

[grizzled laurel]

you know what they say

fun #1

safety #2

this game is giving me enough dopamine to pull through this evening

[void condor]

ScanCode.GRAVE

[grizzled laurel]

oh grave

lovely

[green breach]

uh might not be chromebook ready™️ yet but seems like it works with wine lol

[void condor]

change the renderer to vulkan and see what it does

[green breach]

how?

oh project.cortex

[void condor]

copy the name from the shaders

to renderer

[green breach]

spirv?

[void condor]

'renderer: Vulkan'

like that

[green breach]

ah ok that is what i was going to do before

i should uncomment the shader right?

[void condor]

no

[green breach]

it instantly crashes

[void condor]

shader registry has defaults

no override necessary

[grizzled laurel]

2 quick thingies:

• input needs some work
• clear() doesnt seem to scroll up :(

[green breach]

it just shows the score before crashing

[void condor]

• input SUCKS! MVP 😄
• Scrolling is a hack!
  100 % hackjob

[void condor]

oh ok

[green breach]

OpenGL almost works lol

[void condor]

then indeed, wine + d3d11 == best bet

[void condor]

yeah, didnt optimize the shaders for ogl. So that can be made to work

[green breach]

might be the fact that i am running it inside a container inside a vm on a chromebook

so i'll test it on real hardware later lol

[void condor]

encouraging

[green breach]

probably will get >1fps too

[void condor]

u prolly will

so hot reloading is active, if you mess with the css you can change the UI visuals

or mayyyybe not

interesting, it throws a null function pointer

wtf

[green breach]

vulkan?

[void condor]

no, filewatch crapping out

ah well, you cant win them all

at least this adds a few more testing considerations

ah, still had some paths hardcoded

[void condor]

that's actually the same behavior I see in emscripten + gles

so if I fix the shaders emscripten builds should also run fine (aside from compiling)

[grizzled laurel]

I quote

Tests are overrated

-- dazKind 2025

[shut oracle]

From my perspective, it's just that it's easier to quickly make an app out of hashlink bytecode. The build times for hxcpp are quite slow, especially compared to neko which is what haxelib uses now and cppia doesn't make it as convenient to bundle your cppia script as an app (though, this could be improved).

[void condor]

has anybody ever looked at using hxcpp cache in github CI?

incremental builds using the cache should be super fast

[shut oracle]

That would be pretty cool!

especially for the tests, those take a while to build

[clear dome]

As long as the resulting executable can just work as is without trying to look for libneko and so on, that’s fine I guess

Using hxcpp cache in CI would make me nervous because that would mean using previous builds side effects for the next ones?

[shut oracle]

I would be scared of that too 😅 But I suppose the only way to solve those issues is to start testing it out in cases like this

I've discovered issues before where using cache can introduce an error into a build that would've worked fine otherwise: https://github.com/HaxeFoundation/hxcpp/issues/1180

There was also: https://github.com/HaxeFoundation/hxcpp/pull/1129

[void condor]

it depends on how the apps/tests are structured. if all tests are different executables that are built in sequence you can clear the cache when you start a build and have them share common objs during the current CI run

[green breach]

@void condor hah a bit better on my desktop

the recording slows it down a bit, but you can't even read the numbers

do most applications do some form of average for their fps?

is it expected that the crabs randomly disappear?

[void condor]

yeah, usually a slowed down average

[void condor]

they disappear based on the distance from the center atm

[green breach]

haxejam logo actually works surprisingly well as a playable character lol

[molten sleet]

🦀 vs

who would win

[green breach]

haxe bcs they despawn right before they can catch me

[void condor]

you moved past their range 😄

the playfield is not constraint yet

it's just super basic stuff atm

but a good sample of different patterns on how to model a game in cortex

statecharts, ecs etc

[green breach]

does bgfx not have a shader cross compiler?

[void condor]

the shaders are generated & compiled from common sources to all platforms by the asset pipeline

all the resources in the game are cooked/backed versions, not the source ones

[green breach]

ah k

[void condor]

Vibe-Coding: How it started. How it's going. lolol

[clear dome]

That’s both worrying and hilarious

[ionic badger]

lol

[clear dome]

The replies of the first post being like "we don't need developers now, just marketing" 🤦‍♂️

[grizzled laurel]

it gets better

https://x.com/leojr94_/status/1902537756674318347

leo (@leojr94_) on X

i'm shutting down my app 😑

Cursor just keeps breaking other parts of the code

you guys were right, I shouldn’t have deployed unsecured code to production

I'll just rebuild it with Bubble, a more user friendly and secure platform for non techies like me

I appreciate everyone

X · Mar 20, 2025, 1:48 AM

[clear dome]

The guy keeps saying "I can't code", when we never had as many ways to learn it in human history as nowadays

[grizzled laurel]

yup

it is very funny

[clear dome]

I'm just amazed by the amount of energy that can be deployed to skip learning

[ionic badger]

another interesting way to look at this, is this guy made income with basically no technical skills

[clear dome]

Oh sure that’s possible, but it’s nonetheless a fragile bet to push into production something you don’t understand at all. It’s even more meh when LLMs are incredibly powerful tools to learn faster and folks decide they won’t learn at all and instead lock themselves up with a strong dependency to a tech provided by a third party that could change the rules at any time

Anything you learn for real is invaluable compared to any fancy tool that makes it for you, and people are going crazy avoiding that

[ionic badger]

it's more of an interesting view, able to actually get users but doesn't have the technical ability to develop the thing

[clear dome]

I understand the excitement over things that were impossible to do before by many, and now become possible

But what I have a hard time to cope with, is the amount of detour people take using these tools to avoid learning, even in situations where actually learning the craft is not necessarily harder or longer

You can really learn basics of programming in a few days now

Just open a LLM and ask where to start

When I started programming, I only had a TI89 and a paper manual with cryptic examples with close to no explanation, that was WAY HARDER to start

(Of course programming manuals did exist, but I didn’t have a desktop computer at that time 😅)

[lethal talon]

You can also search up anything, the issue with starting is asking the right things is actually very challenging if you don't know about the concept.

[clear dome]

That’s the thing, LLMs are very good at pointing you to a concept you didn’t hear about, which is much harder to do with, say, Google search

[molten sleet]

Consider your conversation interrupted

[clear dome]

I remember when I was learning PHP, I didn’t know the idea of concatenation, so I was searching « how to merge variables » and so on

[lethal talon]

I didn't know about for loops when I first started so I thought you had to use the timeline to do iteration in flash.

[clear dome]

Yeah, it took me ages to just get the actual « concatenation » word

Now, here’s what Claude says for the same question:

I honestly wish I had that when I was learning the basics

[grizzled laurel]

omg

[lethal talon]

Maybe I am stubborn but I feel like if everything was spoon fed, I wouldn't have learned how to figure out all of the really difficult problems

[grizzled laurel]

the . " " .

that brings me back and hurts me at the same time

very tempted to just make something random in php for the fun of it...

[ionic badger]

I'd like to try haxe php some day

[clear dome]

I still have trust that people who really want to learn new things will use LLMs to their advantage in that task, you can put the limit of what is doable higher than before, it doesn’t mean you have to stay passive and stop to learn

But the opposite is definitely possible too. People who won’t try to go further than what a LLM can do is definitely happening. The LLM is the limit

[clear dome]

Me too lol

[molten sleet]

I currently use GPT-4o + search + reasoning, should i switch to Claude?

[clear dome]

I have a summer project that will use it 😛

[clear dome]

For programming, I find Claude better, but ChatGPT is alright depending on what you need

[lethal talon]

By the way just to play devil's advocate I searched the same thing up with duckduckgo, and clicked the first link: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/8336858/how-can-i-combine-two-strings-together-in-php

[clear dome]

Yeah, when I searched that duckduckgo didn’t exist 😛

[grizzled laurel]

xD

[ionic badger]

back then it was all about forums

[molten sleet]

I basically exclusively use it for programming and explaining concepts (like batching or instancing)
I'll check it out, ty

[grizzled laurel]

i smell a very fun topic is about to start up again

but sadly i gotta dip

[void condor]

this week I reviewed a systemd service file that didnt work right in staging and it turned out it was generated by AI and included a subtle setting that was causing shit to not work right

so much for saving time by using LLMs

[grizzled laurel]

have an appointment with the optician tmrrw in the morning 😬

[clear dome]

LLMs can’t stop people to make trash lol

[grizzled laurel]

might have to start wearing glasses o7

[molten sleet]

One of us

[grizzled laurel]

i mean i feel like that is kindof the biggest problem with LLMs

it gets the broad "context" but doesnt pick up on very specific things

[void condor]

I also tried vibe coding for a simple prototype (webrtc, websockets)

[grizzled laurel]

possibly because the sample size of the option used might be too small

[grizzled laurel]

uh oh

[clear dome]

It’s definitely not a silver bullet solution, but I would lie if I said it didn’t help me get Loreline done, for instance

[void condor]

after 30 mins I gave up, cause the output was such a fucked up mess

[clear dome]

Imo it can be very complementary to a skilled developer

And it’s definitely better at some tasks and worse at others

[grizzled laurel]

i think LLMs can be useful if used correctly (specifically mock data, data transformation, docs and maybe stupid regexes in non-critical enviroments)

things that are very trivial but take time and cant be messed up (generally) is good use-case

[void condor]

yep

[lethal talon]

dip or no dip, there is no part dip

[grizzled laurel]

shit true

[clear dome]

I think of it as an assistant, you give it very specific tasks that save you time, but you’re the one knowing the big picture and working on the interesting bits

[void condor]

Im also testing different stuff with my teams to discover where we can apply shit

[grizzled laurel]

too much dopamine to be found in this conversation

my small young brain needs that dopamine man

[void condor]

so far it has been a sobering experience

[grizzled laurel]

what do i do without the dopamine!!1

(just joking lol, i hate most social media)

anyhow bai

[clear dome]

Sometime I just want it to fill-in a method, with proper context? Output can be near perfect

[lethal talon]

#1234939525931728906 is becoming the hangout spot now for this discord (or just us).. haha

[clear dome]

But ask it stuff for Unity, you are out for a wild ride

[clear dome]

I enjoy that lol, sorry not sorry daz 😂

[void condor]

every case where we gained an initial big win, it then deteriorated into review & rewrite loops resulting in no time being saved at all

[clear dome]

Yeah that’s also very common. I guess some guetting used to is needed, so you know better what is worth asking and what isn’t

[void condor]

that's perfectly fine. Everyone is defined by the company he or she keeps around. Cortex will be fine 😄

[clear dome]

(There are many things I do I don’t ask Claude obviously, that’s also why I don’t ise cursor/copilot suggestions as-you-type)

Cortex Congregation when

[molten sleet]

The hangout of pure programming nerdiness

[void condor]

The other day I asked my deepseek to convert some fucked c++ types for an extern, it did a marvelous job and I learnt something. So yeah, you gotta use it right. But the low barrier entry and the insane code generation will cause a shift in software development in general

[clear dome]

Staying critical and ask questions no matter your starting out or veteran is key imo

[void condor]

LLMs are already training on their own data, so given the stochastic nature we are in for some mind breaking clusterfucks people gonna create in order to generate a quick buck

[clear dome]

But I think anybody smart enough with a learning mindset can get a lot of good things from a LLM

[void condor]

true, as long as they never completely trust the generated answers they will be fine

[clear dome]

Yeah, deepseek trained on chatgpt apparently lol

[clear dome]

You can always dig more into a subject and the llm can often point you to an interesting direction if you don’t stop there, that’s at least my experience with it

And it doesn’t mean other ways of learning have to be avoided

Thankfully big LLM are all fed with libGen 🙃🙃🙃

[void condor]

sure. People that have an intrinsic motivation to understand/control something will be super-charged by an LLM under the right circumstances, the rest will just use it as shortcut to get whereever.

It's like an amplifier for people's core motivations. Interesting times

[clear dome]

Yeah I agree with that

(for the better and the worse 💀)

[void condor]

brace yourself 😄

[clear dome]

I'm just going to ignore people and keep doing my stuff at some point, that's it lol

Can't stop the world bulshiting itself

[void condor]

it's all hypeshit. the other day when looking at vibe coding shit I noticed a lot of people assumed that you can easily make money, bc look the dude that created a shitty plane game made 100k by adding ingame transactions... but somehow everybody forgot that this is just a zeitgeist / hypecycle thing, not a "omg, awesome product & value" one. Sad that people dont remember http://www.milliondollarhomepage.com which was the prototype for that shit

[clear dome]

Just the same cycle as people going all euphoric about: NFTs, crypto and so on...

[void condor]

This is how I operate

Im not triggered by FOMO in my areas of expertise

[lethal talon]

Same, I realized I will be much more content doing my own things rather then chasing to get ahead of some hype wave.

[clear dome]

Same here, I'm saying I "will" just do that, but actually I have been doing it for a long time. Never made Ceramic for getting into the hype train heh

And using Haxe, lol, just the worst choice for that

[void condor]

curious, u guys ever were ahead of some hype wave before?

[lethal talon]

Also hype trains are for lottery ticket buyers, it's not worth the effort, hard skills and focusing on the process are simply better strategies.

[clear dome]

I was using XMLHttpRequest before Web 2.0 euphoria, does that count

[void condor]

DHTML baby

thank god noone calls it ajax anymore

[clear dome]

I'm hoping writing interactive stories with Loreline script is going to be the next hype bubble 🤪

[clear dome]

And on Internet Explorer you had to use window.ActiveXObject, I remember it like it's yesterday

[void condor]

dont you miss those simple times nowadays? 😄

[lethal talon]

Not super hype trainy but more I am satisfied that the fundementals for me wanting to do go2hx were double confirmed by Typescript moving to Golaang and the lead dev talking at length on why they chose Go which is almost 1 to 1 why I thought it was a good pick for Haaxe.

[void condor]

oh! now that's something

[clear dome]

I miss the mood, not the tech

[void condor]

prolly the same for me

[clear dome]

People where doing things because they found it's cool

Now they are mostly doing things because they build a business

[void condor]

in my case I was ahead of the whole low budget autonomous drones stuff

[clear dome]

(at least on the internet that was much less corporate than nowadays)

[clear dome]

Too early is still bad timing I guess

[void condor]

oh for sure

[lethal talon]

Oh that's pretty neat

[void condor]

im lucky im not motivated by money 😄

[clear dome]

Same here, lucky enough to earn enough with my 4-days/week job and being able to do whatever cool thing I want next to it

[void condor]

it is! but at the some time thinking about teaching people on how to make linux-machines fly in coordinated swarms BVLOS and they use it to kill eachother was not so cool anymore

[clear dome]

Btw, today I reached a milestone at work: Make a native library with HXCPP and plug it to Unity, run it fine on Android. The thing is going through Haxe/C++ <-> C# bindings and Haxe/C++ <-> JNI/Java bindings without issues 😛

[void condor]

that shit going on in ukraine was like my worst nightmare

[void condor]

lovely!

[clear dome]

That's what they say, just like LLMs, you can do the best and the worst with a tech

[lethal talon]

Yeah that's brutal to see what you worked on be used in a war...

[void condor]

it depends on your personal investment. i'd prolly be fine if it had a benefit for the security of "my people"

[clear dome]

It's not documented yet, but I improved the bind library (https://github.com/jeremyfa/bind) to generate the whole stack of bindings from a C# class to the actual methods callable from Haxe automatically

So you run haxelib run bind cs SomeClass.cs and then the haxe equivalent becomes available

[void condor]

hmmm, this could be interesting if I think about reviving my augmented reality stuff

[clear dome]

(that's very different from a C# extern when targeting cs with haxe, as here the Haxe is becoming C++)

[void condor]

cortex is pretty much where my old engine was that I used on ios for ARKIT things

[clear dome]

Right now I'm mostly handling the case of bindings within Unity, but it wouldn't require much change to support other C# environments

[void condor]

wait

but bind mentions objc/swift

where is the c# coming from?

[clear dome]

The C# part is there, I just merged it to master today

But it's not documented at the moment

[void condor]

ah ok!

[clear dome]

bind can plug Java/JNI, Objc/Swift

And now... C#

All to the Haxe/C++ target code

I think the next thing I might try is supporting plugging simple C/C++ headers directly

you bind a header and tadam you can call it from haxe

(automatic externs)

But C++ is wild, maybe C is more reasonable

[void condor]

LLVM? 😄

sounds super cool!

[lethal talon]

COUGH COUGH I am looking for someone who would be smart enough to do automatic C externs for CGO

[clear dome]

Yeah I don't know, probably a good idea to not just do plain parsing without context, didn't dig through a lot, just keeping the idea around and implementing things as I go

[lethal talon]

CGO = Go's way to call bind into C code.

[clear dome]

Technically, it would also be possible to improve bind library to generate bindings for HL, but as I'm not using HL myself...

The way it works is two step. First step is to "parse" the input and create an interface object describing methods etc... and then the "bind" step that generate the glue code. So, plugging HL to Objc or Java/JNI would mean making a new "bind" step. But the "parse" step would stay identical

[lethal talon]

If bind could do HL it would be a great replacement for Ammer I would find, especially if it was well tested and/or stable.

[clear dome]

The tradeof with bind is that it doesn't try to be exhaustive

[void condor]

I'd prolly be fine with a DSL describing the interface objects

[clear dome]

It "officially" support some ways of describing interfaces, like not all Objective-C types or Java types are supported

But it support a subset that is good enough so that you can make a "bind-facing" api in Java, C# or ObjC that bind will understand

So the tradeof is: you don't need some specific DSL. The DSL is the handled subset of the target language you handle

[lethal talon]

A fully working subset is better then an exhaustive not well supported version in my view.

[clear dome]

So, plugging a super complicated C header is likely not going to work

But you can make a thin wrapper that can be plugged

(and of course bind could be improved over time to handle more cases out of the box)

[void condor]

but there always will be special cases

esp when you use it for a lot of different things

[lethal talon]

Hence you define a subset where those special cases that break it, are not included.

It's a challenge but a really useful software paradigmn, when corectness matters

[clear dome]

Like, in Ceramic, the HTTP implementation for android is there:

https://github.com/ceramic-engine/ceramic/blob/master/plugins/android/support/ceramic/src/main/java/ceramic/support/Http.java

It's a java class

[void condor]

lemme rephrase: required special cases 😄

[clear dome]

the plugin methods are directly bound to Haxe with a single command using bind library

[lethal talon]

Ah now I fully agree with you

[clear dome]

So it parses this signature:
public static void sendHttpRequest(final Map<String,Object> params, final Func1<Map<String,Object>,Void> done) {

[void condor]

ok, i see

[clear dome]

This will provide the same haxe method in an Http class, when the java map becomes a key value object, and Func1 and actual haxe function. All the JNI mess is handled

From my perspective, handling C headers is harder on the parsing part, but easier on the plugging part (might be wrong thoug)

And maybe an optional DSL to make things clearer could still be useful, even if that's not needed by default. Just thinking out loud

[void condor]

I gotta look into this at some point. for the moment my brain is fucking drained.. @clear dome btw, what's your dayjob?

holy shit

[clear dome]

As mentioned, I used to have a game studio for 6 years with a famous youtuber (the first in subscriber count in France for many years), then in 2022 we decided to stop (financial failure of last game being the main reason, living from games is hard anyway, even with your youtuber friend). Some former colleagues I used to work with before (for about 7 years, in digital publishing: making apps to read books, magazines and newspaper on the web (even in flash!), native android, ios etc...). Now those colleagues created a new company which is specialized in in-game advertising and I'm working with them again. I gotta say I'm not particularly fan of advertising, (wouldn't be sad if that economy collapses), but at least the idea is to have ads integrated within 3D scenes so that they don't block the play session and feel less "intrusive" compared to full-screen interstial ads. The technical stack of this is probably the most interesting part for me, and it's not that easy to find a job that ticks all the boxes regarding what you do everyday, the salary and this being in 4 days, allowing you to do other things next to it, even sell a game, and not being in a toxic environment in general. Among all the things I did, I'm definitely not complaining about my current situation

[void condor]

I might get into VR again

look at the size of these googles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbFU6KoEASU

[clear dome]

The question is, does it prevent the fog on the glasses lol

[void condor]

super interesting! Im not judging or anything, just super curious. Some similiarities there as well, also worked in digital publishing at some point 🙂

sounds like a good place to be

[clear dome]

The ironic part is that our tech is integrated in horrible mobile games that I would never dare to actually play, but those same games are order of magnitude more profitable thananything I did within my game studio 😆

[void condor]

it's so light, you can add an extra fan and you wouldnt notice 😄

[void condor]

yeah, mainstream markets suck, they are soo optimized

[clear dome]

They only care about the metrics, I can tell you

[void condor]

yeah

[clear dome]

But recently more high profile games are being cooked, that's interesting (and that partly runs with haxe, as mentioned before)

Cool thing is being able to see how other studios are working a bit, what kind of engine they use, as the tech I'm making has to work in a wide variety of environment and engines

Can't wait to play more with UE5

Less cool thing is having to ship things built with vs2012 because some games are old codebase lol

[void condor]

lol, yeah

[clear dome]

Had to use an alternative version of lib pcre2 to make hxcpp build in that situation

[void condor]

market adoption of a product has 2 sides, like a coin 😄

[clear dome]

That's also cool to be able to use Haxe. Wouldn't have used it if irrelevant

(Rust was a candidate too)

[void condor]

you should look at python

[clear dome]

ono

[void condor]

😄

[clear dome]

First idea was plain C++

But then using Haxe/HXCPP did really speed things up

User-facing API is in C++

Internals use haxe, but worst case scenario : if we want to get rid of Haxe, that only internal business, the user-facing API wouldn't change

turns out the whole thing is in production and runs fine

(had to patch hxcpp here and there, but that's not worse than having to make your whole stack in plain C++)

[void condor]

hahaha true

[clear dome]

What I'm very curious about is running in consoles

Providing a third party lib for console developers

What could go wrong

But I'm not worried lol, I'll figure it out when that happens

[void condor]

on modern consoles you should be just fine

[clear dome]

I just hope I can ship a dynamic library

[void condor]

if not, supply static ones

[clear dome]

Yeah but static = risk of symbol collision

especially with HXCPP

Like, top level String type without any namespace 😦

[void condor]

oh, I remember

[clear dome]

But no matter what happens, I'm sure we'll find a way

The whole stack is modifiable source code

sky-is-the-limit lol

[void condor]

yeah, hxcpp is not that complicated. there are people that replaced the whole GC to make things work for their use-case

[clear dome]

I'm fine with default GC

[void condor]

me too

[clear dome]

anyway, on ios, android, mac, windows

I ship dynamic library

so it avoids conflicts

On console, we'll see when I have dev kits

Oh and of course if I have dev kits I'll try to run CERAMIC on it

FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER

[void condor]

ofc u will 😄

[clear dome]

exciting times lol

[void condor]

i remember my console dev days fondly, but I dont miss them

[clear dome]

I heard you should use one computer for each dev kit

because each dev kit requires specific config on the machine and it's a mess to try to fit all on the same one

But maybe more recent kits are better

For now, Android stays the champion in most terrible dev stack (for me at least)

(old windows stuff close behind)

[void condor]

in one studio we had devkits per dev & workstation, very rarely they had to be moved. In another studio there was a single wii-devkit on wheels rotating between 6 devs

I guess it depends on what platform and version you end up with

😄

[clear dome]

ps4/ps5/xbox likely

[void condor]

I checked out of profesional gamedev on the height of the seventh generation, so dunno a thing about those. But I assume they come with way less caveats/constraints these days

[clear dome]

Probably. Also it's unlikely I'm going to fight with 5 other devs on the same dev kit as I'm basically only myself needing it

(very small tech team, but know each others for a long time and very efficient as a team, that's also a very good side of my current job)

[void condor]

again, good signs for a place to be

it's the people you surround yourself with

[clear dome]

yeah

[void condor]

makes all the difference

[clear dome]

Talked so much that I didn't finish my multiline text lexing of Loreline

Gotta head to bed lol

[void condor]

same 😄

having another smoke then bed after some more reading

take care

[clear dome]

Enjoy 👋

[clear dome]

Actually, regarding static linking on consoles as mentioned earlier, given that I don’t expose any haxe/hxcpp type to user-facing API header, simply setting symbols visibility to private/hidden for all hxcpp stuff should work

[molten sleet]

thank you, claude is peak

Claude just helped me design an architecture for PyHLGen

[void condor]

maybe I need to ask claude re-architect my scene system

[clear dome]

« You are absolutely right! »

[void condor]

hmmm, animating yoga layouts is actually pretty easy

[grizzled laurel]

thats pretty sick

i also love the ticker at the bottom :P

[void condor]

yeah, it's ok. I cleanup my multi-screen obs setup. was thinking about streaming again

[clear dome]

Never got to the idea of streaming when programming

I feel like what I'm doing is not engaging at all

Migh be disturbed by IRL events too

But at the same time, even we close to zero audience

Maybe that's a good way to get to work

[grizzled laurel]

yeah same, but the fact that what im doing is streamed keeps me focused on the task at hand.

[clear dome]

Yeah that's what I just meant

[grizzled laurel]

yeah

it is stupidly effective

i get the most stuff done when streaming

[clear dome]

Do you stream just here on discord?

[grizzled laurel]

twitch

[clear dome]

I see

[grizzled laurel]

i should prob stream again soon

[clear dome]

How do you set this up, you have 2 screens and you stream one?

[grizzled laurel]

i have 3 screens, i just stream my IDE though.

i put on some music

have a chat and music overlay set up

and it just kinda works

[clear dome]

I see, so you explicitly stream the window of the ide, not a whole screen

[void condor]

I use a scene switcher plugin to follow my mouse around

[grizzled laurel]

yeah

i dont want to use incognito mode and be logged out everywhere

[void condor]

then toggle elements based on the screen

[ionic badger]

probably has the same effect like working in a library or at a coffee shop

[grizzled laurel]

yet i dont want to leak info about myself

[clear dome]

Yeah that's a concern for me also

You can always switch to another software window if you, for instance, move to make some graphics

Maybe I could try streaming when making music

[void condor]

I move sensitive stuff on 2 of my other screens and only stream the 3 middle ones

[ionic badger]

what more info could we get from you? we already know you're a cat named jeremy

[grizzled laurel]

i encourage you to try

its pretty fun

[grizzled laurel]

jeremy is a cat?

https://tenor.com/view/keyboard-cat-musical-cat-beethoven-cat-gif-3298763

[clear dome]

What

[grizzled laurel]

didn't know this was jeremy

[ionic badger]

profile pic joke

[clear dome]

Ah yes, with my human pet, right

[void condor]

xD

[clear dome]

Btw, a channel about pets on this discord yes/no?

That's not political at least

[grizzled laurel]

XDDD

[clear dome]

I have plenty of pictures to post there

lol

[ionic badger]

thread on casual no?

[clear dome]

Yeah I guess

[void condor]

your cat got insta? if yes, connect her to my dog https://www.instagram.com/just_pauli_paul/

[clear dome]

Yes https://www.instagram.com/jimjam_cats And they are 2

[ionic badger]

don't sound so defeated, there was a really populer wordle thread there for a while lol

[void condor]

You caught me 😄

[ionic badger]

maybe we need a "gatekept" topics forum in the offtopic section

[clear dome]

A thread in casual like linux nerds would work though

[ionic badger]

yeah, just if its gonna become a thing it would be nice if they were easier to find

discord hides threads a bit

[clear dome]

Yep, you'll figure it out 🐱

[ionic badger]

not a priority for now tho :3

unless enough people just ask for it lol

[grizzled laurel]

who will create the petition?

[ionic badger]

shall we make a topic forum in casual?

[grizzled laurel]

bet

[ionic badger]

probably won't allow anyone to make a topic because i think it would get a bit "busy"

but adding on request seems fine imo

[clear dome]

#casual-chat message

[void condor]

allow politics in it with the requirement every post has to have a pet picture

[ionic badger]

lol, i think with politics it would be some opt in channel, hidden behind a command with a disclaimer 🤣

[clear dome]

An actual trojan horse

only horse pictures then

[void condor]

xD

[clear dome]

Nah we should probably stick with current rules, even me understand that

If people want to hang out and speak politics let's just do that elsewhere

[ionic badger]

There's enough places to talk politics in the world for now

[clear dome]

Exactly

[ionic badger]

Plus there's actually a haxe politics server

[void condor]

REALLY

[clear dome]

There is????!

[grizzled laurel]

???????

[ionic badger]

yeah, somewhere in the pins of #casual-chat

[clear dome]

Haxe lore is deeper than you'd think

[ionic badger]

https://discord.gg/CFqwcvYRre

there you go

[clear dome]

Very small server lol

[ionic badger]

i think they made it for me to join

and then i never joined 😅

[clear dome]

rainbow haxe logo, of course

[ionic badger]

i think zeta said something like most of the people there have similar beliefs so it became a bit quiet

haha

[clear dome]

I guess if you truly want to go talk to anyone from any political border, you go to public social networks, but do we want that. X is a mess now

[ionic badger]

i dunno, discord is the only social media i use now lol

[clear dome]

I like it, reminds me of forums in the 2000s

Too bad it's all locked down into discord as an entity

[ionic badger]

but i only used twitter for educational material anyway so when i was on it, i never had issues with any thing

[ionic badger]

i have ways to deal with this, its just mostly the incentives aren't there

i'm not going put time into solutions when the problem isn't large enough

[void condor]

let join and fuck them up! There can only be one true Haxe Server, and that Server has a no-politics rule!

[ionic badger]

lmao

[void condor]

THIS WAS A JOKE! (for the server logs!)

[clear dome]

Too late

xD

[ionic badger]

damn

haxebot has already started processing the ban

[void condor]

xDDD

x sucks, but grok is awesome

[ionic badger]

i won't call it x

its twitter

[void condor]

How is anyone afraid of AI taking jobs...

[ionic badger]

jeez that's so crazy man

[void condor]

top left is tooooo real I feel like

[ionic badger]

i really have not messed around with AI

[clear dome]

Is Haxe a white people thing? That's what you'd see from these pics too

[void condor]

it's biased by seeing good old UK hooligans mixed with a "dont show violence" counter-prompt

[clear dome]

Definitely biased

[shut oracle]

i didn't know sam altman was a haxe hooligan (bottom right)

[ionic badger]

i just realised we somehow moved from #1297978372529586207 to #1234939525931728906

[clear dome]

It's like two rooms in the same flat

[void condor]

yep 😄

[neat smelt]

people feel the fear when the person who decided some terrible HR software was a good choice is in the position to choose whether the AI is good enough replacement for your work

[clear dome]

At the end, the financial ratio will decide this for us

[void condor]

It'll be fine. AI is not a living system that adapts. But we are https://nesslabs.com/chaos-surfing

[neat smelt]

Maybe you are

I am a house of cards that collapses 😂

[void condor]

that's bc you think there was control in the first place. instead it was just high barrier of entry

which has been obliterated

[ionic badger]

@void condor @grizzled laurel

enjoy

[void condor]

will check it out later, gotta clean this mess

turns out i also collect headset, never knew

[clear dome]

can somebody type Ceramic or ceramic somewhere

[ionic badger]

ceramic

[clear dome]

Oh it works

[ionic badger]

its case insensitive

[clear dome]

ah, well, alright

I didn't dare to setup a tracker for... tracker library

[ionic badger]

lol

[grizzled laurel]

tyyy

[grizzled laurel]

danggg

[void condor]

just upgraded my laptop and reinstalled windows

i find it funny that you can NOT resize the taskbar by default

[grizzled laurel]

its a piece of software from microsoft

what do you expect :P

[void condor]

ok, finally got most of my shit working again. funny enough my gpus are way less busy after the reinstall

[void condor]

waaaaah

just realized how I can simplify inter-system interaction in cortex

[void condor]

gaaah

im stuck in reinstall land

finally updated all firmware and turns out I can run my iris gpu in combo with the nvidia cards and the load is even better distributed

the rtx only kicks in when there are 3D loads while the iris and the titan composite for the screens. finally

[molten sleet]

#gamedev message

[void condor]

damn, it soo sad that Konami is such a fucked up shitshow.

If I had to rate game-engines, I would prolly give S-Tier to the FOX engine. That thing is still unreal

[grizzled laurel]

Hmm

Does konami use Fox engine for everything (atleast modern games)?

I'm interested in knowning what is running on their arcade cabs

Specifically beatmania, jubeat, sound voltex, gitadora and nostalgia

Can't find that much online about it

[void condor]

not anymore. last game that used fox was PES 21

they switched to unreal

[clear dome]

What are you refering to specifically?

[void condor]

the made some questionable business moves that caused some very cool technology being lost in the wind

[clear dome]

You mean, moving to unreal engine?

[void condor]

fox was created by the studio that was run by kojima, once it got shuttered and kojima moved on all the work they did was locked down and now wasted

I hate it when cool stuff just gets lost

[grizzled laurel]

well yeah always happens with konami

[void condor]

@vapid mortar Hey, dumb hmecs question: What's the point of having pooled/generational entities given they are just integers?

only thing I see would be overflow-protection

but then it could just be int64 and we could accept an overflow if it happens

im thinking about persistence for save/load and multiplayer

[void condor]

a well, the entity pooling is also used to minimize changes to view containers

hmm

[vapid mortar]

@void condor given that a lot of the storage is in arrays, the idea is to keep them as compact as possible to minimize memory costs and traversal costs

you can use unique keys, but then you have to always use maps or similar data structures

traversal can get more expensive unless you do some clever things

I wanted to keep indexing as cheap as possible for components that were accessed all the time, and ideally, keep them sequential

Eventually, I want to figure out how to also sort them without breaking the references, but it hasn't been a high priority.

I guess just sorting the views is just as good

btw, if I ever don't answer a questions it's because I couldn't find the @ . Feel free to @ me a couple times if I don't respond.

[molten sleet]

okay yeah

im separating it

beacon will be the tooling + externs

lumina will be the framework

[void condor]

Yep, that makes sense. I think im just overthinking stuff

[void condor]

https://www.adriancourreges.com/blog/2017/12/15/mgs-v-graphics-study/

A few metrics about this particular scene: 2331 draw calls, 623 textures and 73 render targets were used.

73 render targets...

😄

[molten sleet]

73

Seventy three

[void condor]

the part about the shadow maps is interesting. the fox engine doesnt mess with complex shadow mapping algos:

Here we have 2 spot-lights in the hallway ceiling casting light downward, a 4k x 4k shadow map is generated for each.

this might just be for this particular scene, I wonder what they used for open terrain

https://www.adriancourreges.com/blog/2016/09/09/doom-2016-graphics-study/

In total there were 1331 draw calls, 132 textures and 50 render targets used.

[clear dome]

2331 draw calls, why do I even care about the number of draw calls in Ceramic then

(but I know why: web & mobile are reacting very badly against draw calls. MGS not a mobile game anyway)

[void condor]

I guess drawcalls have way less implicit costs/statemangling in dx11+ & vulkan compared to GLES/WebGL

[clear dome]

Likely

That said it's funny to target 1 draw call to render a whole 2D game frame 😄

[void condor]

you pay with cycles either way. The question is where you burn them 😛

[clear dome]

https://apps.apple.com/fr/app/ta-mère-en-slip/id1327819012 (sure that's not the most outstanding graphics out there)

That game used to need about 10 draw calls to render

because it used multiple texture atlases and additive blending mixed with "normal" blending

But after I had to optimize the default render path of Ceramic when working on Make More Views (which is much more HD graphics heavy)

And rebuilt that game with newer Ceramic

and it ended up being 1 draw call

Because additive blending has become "free" when rendering premultiplied-alpha textures

And because I added multi-texture batching

These are of course mostly useful to have by default for a 2D render path

And because Ceramic is mostly "old school single-threaded rendering using GLES", reducing the draw calls saves a lot of CPU time

(whereas the logic to implement that free additive blending and multi-texture batching is not particularly expensive, just more complexity in the implementation)

[void condor]

not sure i understand that "free" additive blending when it comes to rendering UI. you still need to maintain the geometry buffers and can run into fillrate issues concerning alpha-blended shapes

from those screenshots i assume instanced quads + geometry from svgs, both low reasonable counts

[clear dome]

Ceramic renders elements in the order of their depth. The "free" additive blending comes with the fact that you don't need to change the render blend mode to draw the element. When using blendFunc(one, one_minus_src_alpha, one, one_minus_src_alpha), you just need to change the alpha value of your color to make the blending look additive

[void condor]

so maintaining the buffers is likely not a bottleneck

[clear dome]

No they are actual textures, this is not because that's the best way to render them, but because all the graphics were made by somebody else with Spine (it's all animated)

(The reference I used to implement that: https://amindforeverprogramming.blogspot.com/2013/07/why-alpha-premultiplied-colour-blending.html)

It's a rather specific use case, but not that uncommon in 2D, so it's nice to have it by default in Ceramic. Of course if you use a different blend mode it will need a different draw call

[ionic badger]

chatgpt literally just used the phrase "A client of mine (anecdotal, not data) had similar issue" in response to my question 🤣

[void condor]

cool! The comment section is even better xD

[clear dome]

Ah right, very insightful comments indeed xD

[void condor]

xD

[clear dome]

I prefer to use chatgpt for this

Ha ha

[void condor]

tend to hit up grok

[clear dome]

Maaaan this is sick

[void condor]

xD

[clear dome]

I am both amazed by the quality of the output, and horrified by the consequences of such tech in the society

[neat smelt]

We automate away the things that made life worth living, while I spend 4 hours writing emails because the AI can't be trusted with automating anything that would give more time to do the things that make life worth living.

[clear dome]

I've just read today somewhere on the internet that you should be shitty at a craft in order to become good at it eventually. I agree with that and super good-looking AI-generated stuff shouldn't stop us

[ionic badger]

if ai existing makes you not interested in doing those kinds of things then maybe you were never actually interested in those kinds of things

[neat smelt]

I'm speaking of time and community, not interest

[ionic badger]

yeah but the automation of a thing doesn't negate the "life fulfilling" aspects to it

[neat smelt]

Making something leisurely like painting to express yourself available in 5 seconds so that we have more time to spend at the office

[ionic badger]

only if you see things like that, sure

[neat smelt]

is the opposite direction that we should have gone as a species

[ionic badger]

there's nothing stopping anyone from spending 10hrs on a painting

[neat smelt]

I worked 12 hours today and had 30 minutes and counting of leisure so it's hard for me to see it other ways 😄

[ionic badger]

if you wanna do it, you'll do it

30mins a day is a lot of time

you can get decent at an instrument on just 30mins a day over the period of a month or two.

it is seriously a good amount of time

[clear dome]

That's a very quick conclusion. I'm not worried about myself not doing those things. That being said, AI is not the only thing that can stop you from learning a craft. Paradoxically, having "good/better taste"/"being more critical about craft" in general can be a big obstacle too. Like, you know what you are doing is shitty, according to your own perspective, which can discourage you to continue. This is usually getting worse as you grow older, as you likely care less about being bad at something when everything is new to you when younger

[neat smelt]

you're not engaging my point. It's not about what can be done in half an hour. it's that we fed all of human knnowledge and creativity into a blender along with zillions of jigawatts of power and we still only have half an hour.

[ionic badger]

it is, for sure, but, complaining about what we can't do is not useful or insightful. At every step in history, there has been a reason to not learn a craft, and at the current step of history, it has never been easier to learn a craft despite

[clear dome]

AI should definitely do more our laundry and less our art, that's for sure

[ionic badger]

people were probably too scared of terminator robots to prioritise that route of development

[clear dome]

I think it's also a matter of cost. 100% digital AI scales much better than robots

Robots need a lot of hardware, it's very expensive

[ionic badger]

yeah but art generators are basically free and worth little

[clear dome]

They are definitely not free, there's just a lot of VC money being thrown at it

[neat smelt]

I see this comeback a lot but it always assumes that the person is saying "now I can't learn __ because somebody automated it". I really want to stress that that was nowhere in my statement.

[lethal talon]

you can run it on a personal computer now

[ionic badger]

what other point is there?

[neat smelt]

I want the plaguarism machine to, if it must exist, give me more free time. Not find ways to approximate what I'd do with more free time if I had it. Having an approximation of your free time waved in front of you while you spend most of your life trading labor for capital to survive feels like being kicked in the genitals

[ionic badger]

That's kind of the end point of AI tho

The whole point of AI, is to basically get rid of jobs

[clear dome]

Unfortunately, only a fraction of the society is going to benefit from that

[ionic badger]

then you can just live

you think so

[lethal talon]

I think it will be about the same 😅

[ionic badger]

i think out of the most likely scenarios you're most likely to be right there shadow, nothing will change

[lethal talon]

If I had a guess of what the most stable outcome would be, it would be to have jobs become disconnected from any type of production

Advanced economies are already heavily service based, it seems that will just take on news forms of humans servicing each other, and the new backbone of (non service based) labour being changed out with machines

[ionic badger]

i don't really understand this at all, i trade labor for capital. I don't feel like getting kicked in the genitals

Free time cannot be "generated", its a function of skill

Daz can get probably 20x more work done than me in 30mins

It isn't because daz is more gifted, has more resources or whatever. Its just he's more skilled

AI can be used for bad (to continue being lazy) or for good (to accelerate your skill development)

Nows the time I think, it will almost certainly get paywalled after enough time has passed

[neat smelt]

I'm thinking that also on this point also we will struggle to find common ground, since you are talking in terms of efficiency as a skill set ("you don't need more free time, just use it better") while I'm thinking in terms of where it matters to be efficient, with the end goal of more of life being not a game of productivity and efficiency.
It's hard for me to explain, but a whimsical "what if I painted some cats playing with the haxe logo", and the AI responds "it'd look something like this. get back in the mines", is the way especially the generated images speak to me.

[ionic badger]

Well without clearly conveying your point I obviously can't respond appropriately 😄

[clear dome]

That's part of my point when I'm saying AI will benefit only a fraction of the society. It will increase concentration of wealth (once again) on the people who possess the means of production, which will include all the AI tech as well, and push away everybody else from that. There is no guarantee that a new layer of production-less services can be built on top of that, that will fulfil all the jobs lost from the production-based job market

[void condor]

u flatter me but I aint no wunderkind

[ionic badger]

"it'd look something like this. get back in the mines"
If that's how you see it that's exactly what it is

What's the quote

[void condor]

skills are like knifes, you gotta sharpen them

[ionic badger]

If you think you can't do it, you're right. If you think you can, you're also right

[clear dome]

We could have hoped that reduction of labour to produce the same wealth would mean less work for everyone. But that's definitely not going to happen this way imo

[void condor]

anybody noticed how all these AI success stories are never random normies using AI for the first time? It's always a person with at least 10k hours experience in some area that leverages the new tools

[ionic badger]

yep

its accelerating people who can produce actual value

[clear dome]

And to add more to @neat smelt about being concerned with AI taking over creative skills, as an individual, if I do need to make a living wage, I'd rather have that by making something creative, than making something physically or mentally exhausting and repetitive/uninteresting

[ionic badger]

in the creative domain, there's no limits

[clear dome]

What I mean is that people are paying their rent and their food by making art/music/etc... and AI is litterally taking this away from them

Of course if you don't need to earn a salary, sky is the limit

[ionic badger]

I still don't know where I stand on that side of things

like, what would be different if another human was taking the work. It would be the same outcome but it wouldn't be "bad"

[clear dome]

In other words, I think as a society we should value and reward this creative work

And embracing AI is doing the opposite of that

[void condor]

like here is one thing I dont get: People use AI for emails... why though? The most time I spend with writing emails is just as long as I would prompt some AI for an answer. And in cases where I spent like an hour on an email it's usually I have to prepare a lot of data and review my wording vs. my intention. No way an AI could help me there since i would have to prompt it along my heavy thoughts

[ionic badger]

lack of communication skill so they offload the task to something they consider more competent

[clear dome]

"uses AI to write an email" -> SENT -> "uses AI to make a summary of email"

[void condor]

dont get me started

Im actually developing a secondary skill of detecting AI text

[neat smelt]

If the AI can be trusted with it it's probably not a very important email 😄

it messes up an invoice request or work order and you have to tell the supervisor that Grok is to blame

[neat smelt]

The difference then would be that the net number of creative jobs available to humans remains the same.

[void condor]

the other day I generated some documentation in our internal wiki. Afterwards reading all of it felt like shit bc the notes I used for the prompts where really the essence and much more userfriendly to follow than to read miles of prose the AI spit out

[ionic badger]

AI is very wordy isn't it

[clear dome]

Unless you tell it to shut up

[void condor]

I also had some great experiences

[ionic badger]

Like, most responses are 80% more words than I need

[neat smelt]

Copilot must be told every few turns "concise. data only. no anecdotes or greetings." when I trialled it

[clear dome]

you can add a copilot-instructions file somewhere in your project

[neat smelt]

I don't use it in an IDE

Well, I don't use it at all, but I was not trialling it in an ide.

Just the web client

[void condor]

like I had to deal with a lot of filebased data on a server the other day and I used AI to generate a python script to sort and isolate specific chunks for further processing. would have taken me like 20 mins to iterate and test this, with AI it was literally 1 min and 2-3 mins tweaking&testing before i was able to extract that data successfully

[clear dome]

Yes there are a ton of uses that can help save time

[ionic badger]

yeah 😅 It does save me time here and there, but I'm evidently not got enough responsibilities to actually use it to save time with

I've tried to think of how I could use it around here but I haven't had too many majorly useful ideas

[clear dome]

I saved A TON of time when making Loreline thanks to Claude, yet didn't make any compromise to the quality of the code

It really is powerful when used for the right task

[ionic badger]

currently my main use of ai is if I get stuck on something, I'll ask it and see if it can help lower the hammering time

[clear dome]

I also think the more a user is skilled, the more they can take advantage of such tool

[ionic badger]

definitely

[clear dome]

Being a junior developer in current job market isn't going to be easy

[ionic badger]

I can see workplaces indirectly encouraging skill stagnation by prompting reliance on the ai

now you're a junior developer for 2 years instead of 6 months because ai solved all your learning problems

[void condor]

they will develop new skills. they will learn to guide more AIs at the same time

they will become AI engineering managers

[ionic badger]

who knows, I think there's already skill stagnation prior to ai anyway. People have just gotten a bit lazy and probably created the gap for something to come along

[clear dome]

If you manage to get the job, you can learn quickly thanks to AI tools too and become "less junior", but apparently nowadays a lot of Junior devs are struggling to find their first job at all

(at least in France)

[ionic badger]

well, that's probably true but I wonder if that's just company over relying on ai

[clear dome]

not only

There have been a lot of new learning programs to become developer in France

even as a job reconversion

This increase the pool of junior devs, compared to a decade ago

But at the same time, companies seem to struggle finding more senior profiles

[ionic badger]

ah, so it's a perfect storm kind of thing

[clear dome]

I guess, and AI is probably making the problem worse, even if it was there already

[void condor]

hmm, synchronous eventhandling can cascade quite a bit. this is a frame where the player dies and the game cleans up the scene and switches to the gameOver screen

[lethal talon]

damn that's cool

[void condor]

also just realized that I render and then update the gamelogic, making stuff lag a frame behind

[clear dome]

Ah right, I guess something could be done to make this more « flat » while staying in the same frame

[clear dome]

Actually I did something like that in Loreline recently, because the way it works is:

• Loreline runtime execute a script AST
• It calls user-defined methods to display text and choices and waits for "end of text display" or "choice input" until a callback is called.
• All is fine if the callbacks are called asynchronously, but if called synchronously, it would have increased the call stack after each text or choice to display (until stack overflow)
• To overcome this, the runtime has a system that flattens the calls when it detects the callbacks have been called synchronously. That way you can have 10000 message handlers that call the callback synchronous without increasing the stack

[green breach]

https://github.com/dazKind/castle/pull/3

thingie

oh don't fret the diff count too much, i just moved some stuff around

[void condor]

pretty nice! will check it out on the weekend 😄

[clear dome]

CastleDB on electron seems like a nice upgrade

[grizzled laurel]

awwwwwww

[green breach]

dazDog 😮

[grizzled laurel]

dazLogo did a dazReaction??

[clear dome]

dazCute

[grizzled laurel]

dazIst very true

[molten sleet]

dazNotFunnyAnymore

[tall veldt]

dazNotUpForYouToDecide

[grizzled laurel]

dazConversationIsVeryFunnyYa

[void condor]

dazRight

dazNeverGetzOld

[molten sleet]

breaks the chain

[green breach]

dazIsntVeryCamelCaseOfYou

[ionic badger]

cobalt dropped the ball 😔

[clear dome]

dazillion possibilities of daz*

[void condor]

one in a dazillion!

just installed quake3 and played some deathmatch rounds with bots... holy crap that shit is still good!!

loading into a game is literally a few ms

and it runs with a dazillions frames per sec

[clear dome]

I remember I was playing it on dreamcast with a gamepad because I didn't have a PC

[void condor]

wtf

having a static regexp + initialization inf-loops in emscripten?!

[grizzled laurel]

tf

[void condor]

might be a regression in haxe5

[grizzled laurel]

cortex runs on hx5?

nice!

[ionic badger]

there isn't much different with hx5 yet

there are breaking changes but pretty minor quick fixes

[void condor]

waaaahhh, first time looking at hxWidgets, amazing shit!

[grizzled laurel]

man every time I see this kind of UI it throws me off

it was fine in win10

but in win11 they threw a skin over some components

changed the colours a bit

and called it a day

especially input

[void condor]

yep, but we dont care about the theme or colors in this case. I need something quick to prototype

[grizzled laurel]

yeah makes sense i guess

what are you gonna use it for?

[void condor]

I dont want to build the first version of the editor using cortex' ui, since Im constantly distracted by missing bolts and blobs. Instead im gonna use wxwidgets and throw everything together exploratively till I have my workflows and then I can look at what I actually really need build to UI wise (if anything)

[grizzled laurel]

Hmm I see

Is HaxeUI not an option?

[void condor]

I wanna prototype the games

Haxeui just adds more layers I dont need. wxwidgets is enough

[grizzled laurel]

or what about Qt? (iirc there are bindings for it)

[grizzled laurel]

I guess yeah

[clear dome]

Yeah same, « native desktop UI » sometimes just feels old

[ionic badger]

removing design as a parameter helps narrow the focus down to the task

[grizzled laurel]

defo agree with that, wxWidgets just seems like an interesting choice to me

[ionic badger]

personally i'd use haxeui hxwidgets for such a job, simply for the easy xml but if you're proficient or there's good tooling for the native version then I could understand it

[void condor]

using wxwidgets directly is a shortcut since I can generate code & stuff pretty quickly bc most LLMs learnt more about wxwidgets than haxeui 😛

[ionic badger]

HAaaaaaa

[grizzled laurel]

fair point

[ionic badger]

wonder if cppia + hxwidgets is a thing

[grizzled laurel]

what about imgui though?

there you have the reduction of "the extra layer"

and i think it could potentially be even easier to prototype with

[void condor]

nono, I want os level controls & functionality for the ui

[grizzled laurel]

I mean I guess if that is a requirement hxWidgets makes sense

why that requirement out of curiousity?

[ionic badger]

llm knows more about native wxwidgets than haxe widgets

[void condor]

true, but it maps almost 1:1

[void condor]

I dont wanna mess with anything related to the UI except bolting shit together for the workflows

[void condor]

doesnt work out of the box

[ionic badger]

basically prototype stage

[grizzled laurel]

isnt imgui ideal for this though?

you could just have an editor class and call functions in your engine to get stuff and display it

a list of entities could be as simple as
(pseudo-code)

for (entity in CortexGame.getEntities()) {
  ImGui.text(entity.name, 0);
}

to me that seems easier than having to do work to construct layouts or keep updating the UI in an acceptable way

the fact its immediate-mode makes it very hackable and easy to get stuff to just "function" with little work

with some nice features like docking too

[void condor]

yeah, I gotta start moving faster again. the past weeks I have been stuck bc I keep losing my focus with shit like "oh, I should prolly improve the textfield, oh the sliders need a css overhaul, oh I should prolly add embedded pngs to the css for the checkboxes, oh I need to write a menu for dropdown, oh.... " STOP THAT SHIT; my game doesnt even need all that complex UI and the game has a higher prio than the editor.

[ionic badger]

LOL

[void condor]

Im testing something, it should be native, no special rendering and as stable as a fucking rock

[grizzled laurel]

We got another nerdsniper in the haxe discord xD

[ionic badger]

I literally have been ignoring my textfields and sliders in my project

for the last few days

every now and then, my eyes will just pan to the horribly styled textbox

[void condor]

I cant do it

It bothers me so hard

[ionic badger]

it only bothers when its getting in the way

[void condor]

true

[ionic badger]

but i've been in that place you're at for a while, and i'm in the place you're at now

[void condor]

but I get constantly reminded

[grizzled laurel]

Wouldn't less work be better for testing though? ImGui is very easy to embed and is also very well battle-tested

[void condor]

so my solution is using a completely different tech.

[ionic badger]

found my ways to just say fuck it, we ignoring backend stuff 🤣

[grizzled laurel]

Idk I'm just a GenZ programmer what can I say aye

I really don't see the appeal in hxWidgets though especially not when testing and quick and dirty code is the goal

[clear dome]

+1 on thus

[void condor]

@grizzled laurel from the bottom of my heart, you know I love you, but seriously, fuck imgui, im not gonna touch a gpu renderer UI for what im doing, so please stop before I start screaming at you

[grizzled laurel]

Well I love dazDog and wouldn't wish for it to be jolted awake in the case it's sleeping, so I'll "shut the fuck up" xD

[void condor]

dazDog approves

[grizzled laurel]

I mean dazDog, is it a he or she

I said "he's" but I genuinely don't know lol

It does look very peaceful though

[clear dome]

dazTwoCats when using retained UI for quick editor stuff

[grizzled laurel]

Also have you guys tried out the new AI image tech?

That stuff is genuinely insane

I asked it to draw me as a cartoon, it genuinely feels like there is intent behind stuff like shading now

[void condor]

His name is Paul, 11 years old, best buddy you can wish for

[grizzled laurel]

Awww

[void condor]

https://www.instagram.com/just_pauli_paul

[grizzled laurel]

Yeah I saw that

Same with the insta for Jeremy's cats

What kind of personality does he have?

Is he the playful kind

Or the kind that's wants to cuddle you all day

[green breach]

wait you aren't a hamster???

i request a refund

[grizzled laurel]

A refund on what

[green breach]

uhh

[grizzled laurel]

I should be getting a refund here

[void condor]

he is very alpha, opinionated and stubborn. he either likes you or not, also you need to keep him in check

[grizzled laurel]

I donated to the shrine of logo

[void condor]

but once he respects you, he'll do anything

[green breach]

lol forgot about that

[grizzled laurel]

He should be the manager of a tech company

[void condor]

😛

[grizzled laurel]

I also fed the AI my quite outdated linked profile pfp

In reality I was a recruiter on linkedin all along

You've been fooled!!

xD

You know I believe more companies should introduce a department pet

[void condor]

he is my VP of engineering

[grizzled laurel]

Perhaps call it the debugging pet (kindof like debugging ducks) but then like talk and pet a dog or cat to debug your code

Instead of talking to a lame rubber duck

Talk to something that may or may not talk back aye (even if it's incomprehensible)

[void condor]

tamagochi all over again

[grizzled laurel]

Trueee

But like real

And it helps you debug

Wait debugging tamagochi...

That would sell really well

[void condor]

wait for windows 12

[ionic badger]

i wonder how "in" mobile pets are these days

I know they sprung up at some point

but maybe there's a lil gap there

[grizzled laurel]

Prob not much (defo not in Western countries)

Because shite platforms like tiktok gives too much dopamine meaning stuff like that can't compete

They'd have to add rgb and brain numbing content to tamagochi to make them sell

[ionic badger]

nah man, if they've been "ignored" for a while, its probably a good time to pounce on the idea

[grizzled laurel]

Would that even be a tamagochi any more?

[grizzled laurel]

Maybe

But it'd need to have modern-is features

Ideas like Nintendo Street pass could be implemented to make it cooler

Oled screen ofc

[green breach]

and can't be uncanny valley

[grizzled laurel]

Don't forget microtransactions for cosmetic items

Or "skills"

[green breach]

anyone remember eyepet?

[grizzled laurel]

Never known about it and judging by the image I don't wanna know

[green breach]

LOL

[void condor]

wtf

[grizzled laurel]

Logo you're American right?

[green breach]

yeah

[grizzled laurel]

Because I'm assuming that is an American toy

[green breach]

it was a game for the ps3

[grizzled laurel]

Look only Americans can cook something up that looks that cursed

[green breach]

by a british studio called... London Studio

[grizzled laurel]

No hate intended

But it is how it is

Ps3

Oh man

I was an xbox 360 kid

Loved that console

[green breach]

it was a free game for the ps move iirc

featured is the worst controller design of all time

[ionic badger]

there's also likely a gap for "just good games"

[grizzled laurel]

The square button layout arrgh

[grizzled laurel]

Yeah

[green breach]

this did really well
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1424330/Wobbledogs/

Steam

Wobbledogs

Wobbledogs is a 3D pet simulation where you raise your own personal hive of rapidly mutating dogs, physically simulated all the way down to their guts! It’s a casual and chill sandbox experience for players of all ages who want to care for their very own virtual pets in a surprising, unique, and stress-free environment. The dogs start out re…

Price

$19.99

Recommendations

10601

Metacritic

79

▶ Play video

they can get really messed up

[void condor]

got angry again, so I added this

[green breach]

baha

[void condor]

omg! https://github.com/peterigz/timelinefxlib

Cant wait to give this a try, timelinefx is such an awesome effect editor

[crystal grove]

I have it bookmarked from years ago, just never had a game to warrant looking into it further

[void condor]

I used it for several flashgames back in the day and have been begging for a 3D version for ages. Super stoked that it's happening

[molten sleet]

well dazCoolAndAll but how does one not go insane from attempting to learn graphics programming

[ionic badger]

might be too deep, take it step by step

what's tripping you up

[grizzled laurel]

You see, don't attempt to do it all at once. Allow yourself to fail.

I've tried 3 times before I actually gained a deeper understanding how things worked

And that is a really important foundation.

[molten sleet]

The sheer scale of it
There is so much to graphics programming

And idk where to look for rendering optimization techniques

I know abt stuff like batching, instancing, and not-drawing-triangles-that-are-off-screen (i forgot what it was called)

[grizzled laurel]

I still lack the knowledge and experience to know all techniques there are for doing many things.

But I do at this point know some basic techniques and I have a decent knowledge about how things work on a foundational level.

[ionic badger]

well that's the problem then, why are you looking at optimisations when you don't even know how the api stuff works

you're jumping ahead

[grizzled laurel]

Don't do premature optimization

see what works and you can work on other techniques later to optimize certain parts of your renderer (if it becomes a problem)