#Sakura doesn't have Evolution option

45 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

trail cipher
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Sakura is the only highest upgrade of a unit that I cannot apply evolution to. It doesn't make any sense and is kinda bullshit as well when every other unit can receive evolution buff and when there is nothing stating that it isn't going to have that when you choose the unit or when you choose Evolution.

timid agateBOT
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autumn lotus
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It's by design and listed on the patch notes for when Evo was released.

Evo Sakura would break balance since it gains value every wave it lives anyway.

trail cipher
split dune
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except none of those have a gold cost tagged to them

trail cipher
split dune
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which is why evo doesnt work and others do

trail cipher
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That makes zero sense. The one with an actual gold cost is the one you cannot put on but the free ones are fine?

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Its inconsistent and makes zero sense

split dune
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how much would evo cost?

trail cipher
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based on other units about 28 gold

split dune
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evo can be done as early as wave 2 for sakura, so it would cost 26 gold, but then on wave 19 sakura is like 800 value but you only paid 26 gold to evo it instead of 80 gold

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which is why its not allowed

trail cipher
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Evo is based on the cost

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it doesn't cost different amounts based on the mana on kingping

split dune
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it does

trail cipher
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why would it cost different amounts on Sakura

split dune
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you can test it, it costs different amounts on kp

slate trellis
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If it existed, and it costed 25g on the wave you build sakura, it would be fair. 10% of the unit cost for 10% of the unit, same as any other. Sakura gets stronger, so if you evolved it later then the evolve cost would have to go up. Nothing too complicated about it. I don't see why it couldn't be added.

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To "Break" the game, you would have to massively underpay for the evolution. Just need to find the correct number to pay for the evolution. Maybe it is more trouble than it is worth though.

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Still feels wrong to have a unit you can't evolve

spare plume
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problem is that it keeps getting stacks

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its the only unit that evolves on itself during the game

slate trellis
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If we buy 1x sakura, it grows at 1x the rate. If we buy 2x sakuras, we gain 2x as much value per round. If we evolve our sakura that we just purchased, we paid for 1.1 sakuras, we get 1.1 sakuras, and we gain 1.1x as much value per round. If we evolve a sakura later, you get the stats but you pay more to get it.

Again, nothing broken here. It is only confusing in your head because it FEELS busted. It is entirely balanceable, and is a perfect example of something that ought to be in the game simply because it feels broken to do.

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It gains stacks on itself? Well it's supposed to. You paid 275g for it after all.

fallen orchid
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That's actually a really good point.

spare plume
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You know that Sakura got changed right?

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Like the one stack you gain on wave 17 is more value than a stack on wave 7

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Evolving early like wave 2, scales way harder than all other units

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That means that a 27 gold investment scales % wise way more than that

slate trellis
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Yes, so we can adapt my analogy to fit your scenario. Here's how it goes

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If we build 1 sakura on wave 17, we gain a wave 17 stack. If we build 2 sakuras on wave 17, we gain 2 wave 17 stacks. If we build a sakura and evolve it on wave 17, we made 1.1 sakuras, so we get 1.1 wave 17 stacks.

nimble flame
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if you build 1 Sakura, for cost of 250, now at wave 10, that Sakura instead of being worth 550, is worth 605. instead of the 275, it was on wave 1. I think the issue lies with how much would it cost to upgrade a sakura on wave 1 or 2, to equal that large increase of value it could hold on like 15 or something. How can it be detirmined that this sakura will be worth 200 gold more then the cost it effectivly makes it have evolution. Maybe have it from the wave it gets evolution idk, its hard to balance is all.

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I hope thats a better explaination for you.

slate trellis
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If we build 1 sakura for 250, at wave 10 it is worth 550 (2.2x value). If we build 2 sakuras (everyone agrees building 2 sakuras is balanced), they are worth 1100. Twice as much as if we had only built one sakura. This is fair because we spent 2x as much money on wave 1. If we build a Sakura on 1 and evolve it, we paid 275g (1.1x sakuras). If we apply the same 2.2x we are supposed to get, then we get 605 value. This is fair because we paid for 1.1 sakuras, so we ought to get 1.1 sakuras worth of stats. If we had bought 2 sakuras, we would get 2 sakuras worth of stats. How is it fair to get 2 sakuras worth of stats, but not get 1.1 sakuras worth of stats?

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If this thread is any indication, it also shows that everyone genuinely believes that this is somehow broken, even though it isn't. That suggests this would be good for the game, because it gives the fantasy. "Look ma, I've achieved expoential growth! My build is so op". That's great! You want a build to feel powerful. That's player retention right there. You create positive memories, while at the same time having a perfectly balanced game. Bankers have the fantasy of having infinite moneyyyyyyy if you just build enough bankers. Doppelganger could do thousands of damage! Bone crusher could heal forever while staying around 50 hp! If we take a unit, and we put aps mps and dark mage on it it could attack 15 times per second. It feels busted, but it isn't! That's the entire point.

split dune
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you paid 25 gold to get 10% improved performance on a 250 gold unit, not 25 gold to get 10% improvement on a 500 gold unit.

KP 's evo cost considers mana invested.

Its ok for edge cases to exist that dont work or are not implemented for balance.

slate trellis
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If this is true, then there is something fundamentally broken with Sakura. Currently we can pay 250 gold to get 1 sakura. If we pay 500 gold, we can get 2 sakuras. By wave 10, we actually have a 100% improvement on a 500 gold unit. By your logic, this is broken too.

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If we're paying for the upgrade on wave 10, the cost would have to go up though like you said

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If you base the evo cost on 10% of the current value of the unit, it is balanced at every point.

split dune
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Id support putting evo on if it retroactivly took gold from you to make up the difference

fallen orchid
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Maybe another way to look at it: what's the difference between building 11 Sakuras or 10 evolved Sakuras? Same price, same growth, same damage. Why is one enough better that it can't be allowed?

slate trellis
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Bigger units are generally slightly better, especially in the early game. This is why people are willing to give up income/gold in order to play evolution in the first place