#Coming back to Arms after 10 years

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

dapper tide
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Hey everybody - I just came back to TWW to Raid as Arms and I feel I am missing so much of what I should be doing (currently green parsing).

I understood I need to keep my jaggernaut uptime as much as I can and that I need to react to Tactician procs (I downloaded both WAs from this channel - ty!!).

I am looking for help to understand my main areas of improvement, which I am sure are a lot. Personally, I feel there are key rotation flaws and uptime issues, but it's just a gut feeling that I have also from reading other posts here in the channel which have great arguments around that.

I am attaching here the link to my logs page for you to eventually go through that have all the info on my HC run. Thank you in advance for your kind help 🙏🏻
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/aggramar/recicero

P.S.: I also recorded my gameplay through WarcraftRecorders, but as a Discord free user I cannot upload due to file size - in case you might have the time to go through them I can upgrade my plan and upload the content (was planning to switch to premium anyway).

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Coming back to Arms after 10 years

lyric saddle
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Well for starters, you are undergeared. Your parses are underwhelming because you are competing with very strong players with a lot more gear than you. This doesn't mean that you cannot improve, of course - but it does mean that you are playing at a disadvantage.

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In the arms opener we want to click charge > rend > roar > Ava+trink+potion + colossus smash (you are already doing this wonderfully), but before clicking bladestorm we generally want to spend our heavy hitters. In pure single target, Mortal Strike is up so we want to get it on cooldown. If opportunist procs or we get a mortal strike reset, then we keep pressing Mortal Strike and Opportunist proc'd Overpowers until we don't have any anymore and then we go into bladestorm.

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In some scenarios, such as gallywix mythic, you can argue to get bladestorm on cooldown asap in order to have bladestorm ready for the adds, but that's more niché and you should stick to the general rule of spending the heavy hitters before going into bladestorm.

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Additionally, your execute phase is generally not very good.
Opportunist procs have a higher priority than execute within the execute phase. Do not waste these procs. Thats a LOT of damage that you're throwing aside.

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The rule of thumb in execute phase is:
Mortal Strike with 2x Executioners Precision > Opportunist proc'd overpower > Execute > Overpower without opportunist when low on rage

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on your sprockmonger kill you clicked execute too close to eachother, I assume you know why we dont want to do this right?

image.png
dapper tide
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Dear Kronzo, first of all thank you so much for your kind reply! As per your last question, yes you are right (obviously) as I understood we want to eventually hold on execute and use it when conditions are met to maximize juggernaut uptime

lyric saddle
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Also, in spite of you saying that you are tracking the opportunist procs from tactician resetting your overpower, you're generelly very inefficient at actually using it. Did you practice with it before going into the raid yesterday?

dapper tide
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Unfortunately no, I just downloaded the WA yday before raid - may I ask you why you say so? Is it because it passes a lot of time between proc and use of OP (like slow reaction time) or also because I use other spells before actually using the proc?

lyric saddle
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You click a lot of executes instead of overpower when opportunist procs

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specifically in execute phase

dapper tide
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Oh, yes I may know why 😆

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Cause I thought I had to: Execute, Execute, OP proc (eventually) and then MS (buffed by 2 EP)

lyric saddle
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no

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Mortal Strike with 2x Executioners Precision > Opportunist proc'd overpower > Execute

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Opportunist proc is big damage higher prio than execute

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in exe phase

dapper tide
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Okok I get it now, so eventually it takes more time to reach the buffed MS (as I am prioritizing tactician OP over building stacks)

lyric saddle
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yes correct

dapper tide
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I understand now, thank you so much Kronzo 😍

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Would you say I also have uptime issues?

lyric saddle
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no

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At least not on the kills i checked

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I didnt check all of them to be fair

dapper tide
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Okok thanks, yes I guess - your time has been so precious

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One last question (then I may come back for further doubts 🤣 )

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On Bandit fight, and more in general, how should I behave with adds? The way juggernaut plays out really doesnt make me want to leave boss 😆

lyric saddle
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you never leave boss on bandit anyway.

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you are glue'd to the boss

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boss moves to adds, you move with boss

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you dont leave boss

dapper tide
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Do I always stay on boss and eventually use bladestorm on adds to not lose Jagg stacks on main target and keep SS up in case boss goes close to them?

lyric saddle
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you dont charge/leap to adds away from boss, ever. Dont do that

lyric saddle
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you can farm execute on the adds for jugg stacks with sweeping strikes

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but like

dapper tide
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That's the answer I was looking for, thanks mate

lyric saddle
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ur main target is boss

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always

dapper tide
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Yes cause tanks don't always move boss prox to adds

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So... 😫

lyric saddle
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then ur tanks are idiots

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not ur problem

dapper tide
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Hehehehehe yeah true sad story

lyric saddle
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I tanked OAB plenty of times. you can always move the boss to the adds. Very easily, in fact.

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so if they dont do it, its their fault

dapper tide
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Yeah, which also doesnt allow me to contribute in dmg to adds

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Which slows their killing process

lyric saddle
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My friend you dont want to kill the boss if it means that u dont have fun because you get griefed by your tanks

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just use voice chat and pings to direct them if they suck

dapper tide
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I will probably do another post on my M+ runs, which are way worse than my already bad raid performance okayge

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Ahahahah true!

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Also one last final doubt (promise) - what balance should I achieve for my secondary stats in terms of %?

lyric saddle
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there is no such thing.

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retail isnt like classic where u go for certain items or stats

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it will tell you what has the most damage

dapper tide
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I see I see

lyric saddle
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Like yea sure in raid generally haste > crit >= mastery > vers

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but like

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no just sim your gear

dapper tide
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I did it for some items but I'll stick to that metric then

lyric saddle
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you can get crazy bad results because you think you have good stats but u actually dont

dapper tide
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Heheheheh yeah I get your point

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Mate is there any chance you could have a look at my kill VODs in case I upload them?

lyric saddle
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yea i can just post them here or make a new review post

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just...please have a decent UI

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i need to be able to see what ur pressing

dapper tide
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Another thing I missed out on are my trinket and weapon effect uses, because I didnt have them bound to action bars or displayed by a WA

lyric saddle
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use best-in-slots along with the following colossus smash

dapper tide
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Absolutely is good, I also have rotation tracker from details up my damage meter

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You can debug it perfectly

lyric saddle
dapper tide
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Ty so much mate, have a great day 🙏🏻 🙏🏻

lyric saddle
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u2 man, and dont forget to practice on a target dummy

dapper tide
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Sorry for audio (the software recorded also all the voicecomms)

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Thank you in advance anyway 🙂

lyric saddle
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general gameplay looks good. I see that the bosses get away from you from time to time. You arent glued to them enough. Try to be a lil bit more aware of how bosses move/are supposed to move. It takes time to learn but once u have it down then they wont get away from you anymore.

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if you check your cauldron of carnage kill at 2:45 you will a prime example of not having a proper idea of how to move with the boss. Fix this to get less downtime and you will be giga chilling, i promise you.

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you're also stress-pressing double overpower, not just in this one example

image.png
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in execute phase btw

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big no go

dapper tide
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Ty so much Kronzo, your time has been so valuable to me!

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Tonight I'll try to join Mythic raid, will be 670 ilvl in a few hours hopefully - in case my guild lets me in, I will be recording logs to eventually bring them to your attention 🙂

lyric saddle
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please watch kill POV videos of the fights from other warriors before going into mythic, it helps a lot

dapper tide
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I did watch almost all videos from Shirly, who is pretty much the only I could find that is actually also displaying rotation 😄

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But I guess that I need to find myself in those encounters aswell and then rewatch my VODs and compare

lyric saddle
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i could send you my videos but i only recorded fury

dapper tide
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Aaah ouch, would have loved to see those! You have a youtube channel aswell Kronzo?

dapper tide
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Mate, stupid question, did they just change Juggernaut talent so that now it's not tied to the target anymore but it refers to the Warrior himself/herself as a normal buff does?

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I mean so that now I don't lose Jugg stacks if I switch targets anymore, is it right or am I tripping? 😄

forest shore
lyric saddle
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i just have them in my recorder cloud

obsidian acorn
lyric saddle
dapper tide
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Dear all, here I am again with an updated VOD of my Vexie Mythic kill - is there any chance I can ask your help for a quick review?
I still feel that I missed up on quite some dmg (video recorded at 670 ilvl), which may also comes from the fact that I just tunneled-vision boss without really sharing dmg on adds.
Thank you in advance for the time you might take to review this 🙂

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P.S.: I saw your VOD Kronzo, too bad I don't play fury it would have been so helpful 😄

dapper tide
forest shore
dapper tide
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That's a good point, actually I didn't think about due to tunnel visioning into my ST rotation too much (my brain just lost awereness of all the rest lol)

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May I ask you if you see some other main concerns? I grey parsed this fight 😦 I guess some of that is due to gear, but I am 670 anyway, so not that low in general I guess

lyric saddle
# dapper tide

if you're recording this with warcraft recorder then you should remove the 2nd audio input of WoW, thats why it sounds so scuffed

dapper tide
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I will for next time, sorry for messed up recording, didn't know you could do it 😦

lyric saddle
dapper tide
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Thanks 😍

dapper tide
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Dear @lyric saddle , @forest shore - Tonight I have done a few mor HC kills to make practice and I feel I am still performing sooo bad, even though I feel I understand the core principles of our spec.

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I was hoping you could have a look at my most recent logs to help me understand why I am missing so much, I am still stuck at green "ilvl parse", so basically I am performing under average of Arms warr of my same ilvl (if I understand correctly)

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I attach the vid of the kill here too, this time only with WoW audio 🙂

lyric saddle
# dapper tide

when u have no opportunist proc its still overpower > slam, you lost a bit of damage on that
you kinda over-used natty overpowers in execute range idk why, just click execute, never double cast overpower in exe range unless u have zero rage

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and whats up with your consumable usage?

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overall you played well in this fight but u didnt get that many procs

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but u also didnt properly farm procs

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cuz u overused overpower in exe range

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each natty overpower is a gcd where u dont farm opportunist proc

dapper tide
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I see, the natty OP spam seems to be a recurring problem that I need to fix in my head xD

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I mean I really feel overwhelmed, parsing blue on this encounter

lyric saddle
dapper tide
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heheh yeah I read your post and watched ur video

lyric saddle
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like ur unironically not doing shit that poorly

dapper tide
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But your "shit" is 90% lol

lyric saddle
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ur fine

dapper tide
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❤️

lyric saddle
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like u unironically need to get gear tho

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that shit is holding u back big time

dapper tide
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I see, you're right

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I need to farm more M+

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As with guild we are stuck 2/8M 😦

lyric saddle
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are u on EU or NA

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if ur EU then i can tank for you at times, shoot me a dm whenever u plan on doing keys

dapper tide
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EU 🙂

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Oh mate I would love it so much, I will write you for sure

lyric saddle
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or i can also whip out my alt warriors if u plan on tanking, then I'll dps the shit outta those keys

dapper tide
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Thank you so much for the help mate - really really appreciate it

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hehehehe nono I am trash at tanking, havent done it since TBC (and was painful back then)

lyric saddle
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like this was my overall on my 670 warr alt in priory 12

image.png
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I blasted so hard

dapper tide
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Oh jeez lol

lyric saddle
dapper tide
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Ty so much ❤️

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I am in front of Vexie now, will try to push harder

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is the 4th kill tonight lol

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Lets see if I can upgrade my green parse

lyric saddle
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try to extend juggernaut on the bike adds if u get the opportunity to do so

dapper tide
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This boss feels so dumb I cant believe I am not pulling out more

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That's a good point actually

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Sneak an execute on low HP adds

lyric saddle
dapper tide
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I use on Pull and then wait for BL phase

lyric saddle
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yea p much

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i think that works out timing wise

dapper tide
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Should be, also bossess getting shorter encounters I feel is no good for us

lyric saddle
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doesnt matter

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shorter exe phase also means shorter pre-exe phase

dapper tide
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That's true

plucky pendant
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In your opener you are casting CS before Avatar and delaying BS for a while due to overuse of OP.

It also looks like you are overusing slam leading to a large number of 6-12s windows where you are not using MS at all.

At around 1:38 your HoC and Avatar desync, most people would just macro these together.

I checked the Vexie log from yesterday also and it shows the same patterns in your opener and general rotation.

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I can have another look later today, hard to read logs on phone okay

lyric saddle
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Ava after cs is okay, not that big of a deal

dapper tide
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Dear @plucky pendant - Thank you so much for your reply! Actually I thought I had to use my MS/OP charges and eventually Exe with SD proc before sending BS, but I understand that I actually should prioritize BS over using both OP charges in the opener (and maybe in general)

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Absolutely, macroing HoC and Ava is a must - I'll do it straight away

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About Slam overusage, I really need to check again my VODs to do some reverse engineering on why I am using it so much

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If you have a chance to go through logs in more detail, thank you in advance (and again!)

lyric saddle
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something i just noticed, you're playing with best in slots, yet you're not using the active of it. @dapper tide

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hero track best-in-slots is worse than a crafted weapon btw so you should do keys to save up the 90 gilded crests to craft a 681 weapon

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and since this is a common misconception - you can equip more than just 2 crafted items. You can only embellish 2 crafted items with the special embellishment effects, but you can continuously craft and equip non-embellished crafted gear until you're decked out

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your best bet is to craft a 681 weapon, 681 neck and 681 ring, in that order probably

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you can run sims to see what stats they should be, but it will most likely be haste crit every time

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we can help you sim it if you're unsure how it's done

plucky pendant
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Also using 3x Executes before MS whilst already at max stacks

Screenshot_20250624-123743.png
lyric saddle
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^good point, the only time we should exe 3x is when we get zero opportunist procs because exe is a stronger filler than slam

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It's kind of jarring how often you click exe 3x

plucky pendant
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Kinda sucked that it happened during your avatar/CS window, you could potentially have fit another 1-2 MS into it depending on procs etc

dapper tide
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Dear @lyric saddle, @plucky pendant - thank you so much for your kind attention, it's incredible to me to receive so much support from the community, thank you!!

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First of all, I followed your suggestion and I created an all-in-one macro to cast Avatar/Tempered potion/HoC - such a good quality of life improvement to save that extra-keybind, especially considering that makes my "burst opener" much smoother!

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In terms of Execute spam, I didn't notice that, so thank you again for pointing out such a missing point in my flow!

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For what concerns the crafts, I tried to ask in trade chat but I had no luck in finding some nice BS to help me out on that on my server. I have over 100 gilded crests, so I could fund immediately the craft of my weapon - is there any chance I can ask your help on this matter? I feel I have none to turn to 😦 The weapon improvement could also actually be considerable in terms of base dmg

dapper tide
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Actually, now that I looked at it, I didn't even add gems to my new ring to run the SIM scenario, and apparently it still comes out on top of a fully gemmed Jastor Ring.... Maybe I need to get rid of all the Jastor's mastery and make space for the 6.5K additional Critical Strike brought in by the Faded Championship Ring?

plucky pendant
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Are you simming your M+ spec? The damage looks very low for the usual raid spec

dapper tide
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Oh damn

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Thanks mate, I was actually in M+ spec

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Such a dumb mistake, sorry

plucky pendant
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You will likely keep your jastors equipped, the sim will change a lot once you start recrafting other slots to crit/haste

dapper tide
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Yeah I guessed so, I mean I am now sitting at 27 Crit/22 Haste/35 Mastery

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It did seem strange to me xD

plucky pendant
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Don't overthink your stats, just follow what the sim recommends

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Arms prefers higher crit/haste than Fury so there will be a bit of tinkering with items when swapping specs, the difference isn't massive though

dapper tide
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I see, I will try to run the sim again now with the proper spec xD

lyric saddle
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🤷‍♂️

dapper tide
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I understand perfectly now, thanks Kronzo and Fake

dapper tide
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Dear friends, @lyric saddle, @plucky pendant - I joined HC run for a few kills until Mugzee (included), and I finally managed to step into the "light" blue parse range 🤣, so first of all thank you once more for the improvements you helped me achieve with all your shared knowledge.

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Unfortunately I got hit by an ice lance in the after-cage Mugzee phase, which gave me 40secs downtime, sending me straight into the grey parse range for that fight alone

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I tried to focus more on the 3x Execute issue you highlighted me, and on giving more priority to opportunist procs over other casts

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However, my gut feeling is aalso that I keep getting jinxed by tanks in some fights, for example Bandit and Mugzee, where the boss is kept away from adds, causing melees to lose cleave dmg

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However, I am kind of disappointed at my Sprocket logs, which should be instead an ideal scenario for pure ST practice

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In case you had the time to have a look at my updated logs I would be grateful, I still have a long way to go for the purple range

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P.S.: I also got Hero track Bullet proof vest from Mugzee, I guess I am going to take mythic tier legs from vault and upgrade my new chest loot at this point

plucky pendant
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You missed a whole cast of avatar/trinket on Mugzee here

image.png
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90% uptime on rend, but if you got ice lanced its understandable

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You did get a little screwed over with MS crits throughout the fight

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Look into upgrading your helmet corruption to greater void ritual and sim your belt to see if there are any better powers to use

dapper tide
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Is there any chance you could have a look at my Sprocket log? The parse outcome kind of disappointed me, I thought I did better tbh

plucky pendant
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There was a 8-9s period at around 2:42 where you had no casts but I think this was due to the group soak

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if you are tracking timers etc you can always leap into the soak with 1s or so left to maximize boss uptime

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Also there was a period at 4:51 to 5:00 where you refreshed opportunist twice and casted execute 4 times in a row

image.png
dapper tide
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Oh damn, seems I can't get over it...

plucky pendant
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Also during execute phase there were quite a few times where the following things happened:

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0 Exe > MS 2
1 Exe > MS 4
3 Exe > MS 2
4 Exe > MS 1

dapper tide
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I see.. seems I can't stick to the 2Exe>MS pattern... meh

plucky pendant
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when you have bladestorm ready in execute range, you still follow the 2x Exe + Oppo procs before casting it since the first tick of MS will still gain the benefit

image.png
dapper tide
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Wow I didn't think I was missing so many

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Is this log from yesterday's Sprocket?

plucky pendant
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thats from Mugzee ^^

dapper tide
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Oooh okok 🙏🏻

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I just checked the VOD, those 9 seconds you found were because I got targeted by soak

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So had to get away from the raid

plucky pendant
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if you are the soak target its best to move early to not fluster other players

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if you were assigned I would just try to get as much uptime on boss before leaping into it etc

dapper tide
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Yes yes I was the soak target, otherwise I just leap in at the last second (aalso for cages)

plucky pendant
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Your sprocketmonger was a big improvement 🙂

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The main things that stand out really are:

1:57 to 2:09 - No casts during this time
3:29 to 3:38 - No casts during this time

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and the aforementioned exe/BS during execute phase

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idk what the timings looked like from your POV with things coming off CD but I would have tried to sync avatar here as you lost a decent amount of your CS window

image.png
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the boss died 20-30s after this so there would have been no loss of damage to hold CS a little longer

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your execute phase was good though and you stuck to 2x exe > ms#

dapper tide
dapper tide
dapper tide
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Second one is because I found myself on the opposite side of a "void" Ray compared to the boss because tank moved at last in opposite direction

plucky pendant
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Yea it's a jungle out there in pug land sometimes 😁