#vanilla-discussion | Skyhold | Page 17

quaint mauve May 21, 2019, 5:51 PM

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is there any discord channel dedicated for classic warriors?

modern river May 21, 2019, 7:26 PM

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I mean, I'd say this is by far your best bet bud.

modern garden May 21, 2019, 10:04 PM

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https://discord.gg/RbCZJtw

tender estuary May 22, 2019, 12:02 AM

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The stress test invites have started going out

slender scarab May 22, 2019, 12:43 AM

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Hello I have general Question about Classic Wow , is it better to level from 1-60 as arms or fury ? also for the horde vs alliance pick , isn't Horde has massive advantage due to Wind-fury totem from shamans beside the fact as horde you will have less competition on gear as if you were alliance because paladins

idle shale May 22, 2019, 12:44 AM

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I mean if you think you'll always have a shaman with you, for one. But also the arms tree has a bit more usefulness and utility in general for leveling

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since you can no longer abuse the /sit thing for free healing and enrage I think Arms is going to be the general good idea

slender scarab May 22, 2019, 12:46 AM

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Thanks Artunias , May i ask you personally if you are going to play alliance or horde ? also for the arms leveling spec are you going Axe or Sword most likely

knotty pivot May 22, 2019, 12:48 AM

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got stress test invite thought it was actual beta for a min feelsbadman

twin oar May 22, 2019, 12:49 AM

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yeah same

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it's just stress test

idle shale May 22, 2019, 12:51 AM

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@slender scarab I'll be horde, can't pass up the windfury lulz

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and I was alliance 15 years ago, so be kinda cool to see the other side

twin oar May 22, 2019, 12:52 AM

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Now that I think of it

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I might want to play a warrior

slender scarab May 22, 2019, 12:53 AM

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It seems warriors will be overpopulated class to the bones

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i can see that

knotty pivot May 22, 2019, 12:54 AM

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at first ya

idle shale May 22, 2019, 1:07 AM

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it's the highest dps class for most of the end game by a good bit

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and strong in pvp as well

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its' def going to be overplayed lol

solar matrix May 22, 2019, 1:12 AM

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Yeah hugely

slender scarab May 22, 2019, 1:13 AM

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Everyone is like roll a warrior main on release , there will be less supply of healers pog

slender scarab May 22, 2019, 1:30 AM

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what is better sword or axe for arms for pve

distant saffron May 22, 2019, 1:33 AM

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While levelling you just pick the spec for the best weapon you have

modern garden May 22, 2019, 1:50 AM

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it'll be overplayed but a lot of people will probably quit and reroll unless the beta levelling is really that much easier

crimson jay May 22, 2019, 1:51 AM

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there's no such thing as overplayed. Warriors will be always in high demand. just don't suck.

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make yourself a name

idle shale May 22, 2019, 2:45 AM

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eh, to some degree. still gotta gear. A geared rogue will do more damage than a warrior with mediocre gear

crimson jay May 22, 2019, 2:53 AM

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rogues get free gear? don't understand what you are trying to say

halcyon mist May 22, 2019, 3:01 AM

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vanilla is the time when warriors actually scaled with gear

crimson jay May 22, 2019, 3:01 AM

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also, being able to tank dungeons and exclude loot competition makes gearing up as a Warrior quite easy

halcyon mist May 22, 2019, 3:01 AM

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you are going to suck, for a while

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dungeon loot isn't what makes warriors good

crimson jay May 22, 2019, 3:02 AM

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it's enough to be at least on par starting with MC

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assuming everyone is at the same level of progression

halcyon mist May 22, 2019, 3:03 AM

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for warriors it aint a straight flat progression of power

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its a curve

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others have a line

crimson jay May 22, 2019, 3:04 AM

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yeah, which is why Warriors are outscaling everyone with high-end gear. doesn't change the fact that even with pre-raid gear you are one of the top dps

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we are playing 1.12, not early Vanilla

uncut hare May 22, 2019, 3:10 AM

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Has anyone else noticed the combat thing in classic beta with the unit frames?

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I swear that thing was only introduced in legion

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ill get some pics

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📎 1.JPG

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📎 2.JPG

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So just right clicking on a mob changes the level into combat without actually attacking the mob

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It's doing that in the beta

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I'll give 'em the benefit of the doubt because it's only beta, the raid frames are modernized too so probably still in development

idle shale May 22, 2019, 3:14 AM

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my comment was more that if a guild has 12 warriors, not all of them are gonna get gear

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where some rogues most likely will

nova knoll May 22, 2019, 3:25 AM

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just make sure you get favoritism

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: )

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I saw a big survey on what people are gonna play

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warrior was the highest at 13%

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everything else 7-10%

crimson jay May 22, 2019, 3:26 AM

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rogues and dps warriors have a lot of overlaps especially early on. in later phases there is great gear from crafting and pvp. guilds will prio-loot warriors over rogues. it's a non-issue IMO

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if anything then Rogues are fucked because Warriors are so good

uncut hare May 22, 2019, 3:27 AM

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wasn't warrior levelling a pain in the ass?

nova knoll May 22, 2019, 3:27 AM

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the sample size was about 15 thousand people on the survey I saw

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so idk

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I do think warrior will be most picked overall but I mean

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it's the best dps and tank imo

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and yeah warrior has the hardest leveling

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way longer than others even with tricks

crimson jay May 22, 2019, 3:28 AM

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also, Rogues actually using their T1/T2 in contrast to Warriors

nova knoll May 22, 2019, 3:29 AM

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gonna be selling arcanite reapers asap

arctic juniper May 22, 2019, 4:13 AM

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sure, can't wait for guilds to actually be big again...

uncut hare May 22, 2019, 4:23 AM

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can't wait for no guild banks

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it's bound to happen to other guilds what happened to asmon's

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one guy was the guild bank and he just dipped

main hemlock May 22, 2019, 5:09 AM

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how rare was AR plan actually that guy will be rich af who gets it early

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I remember paying like a 5 or 10g crafting fee for it

idle shale May 22, 2019, 5:13 AM

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I remember it being really rare

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but maybe my server was just bad I don't know

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lol

nova knoll May 22, 2019, 5:47 AM

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yoink

main hemlock May 22, 2019, 6:18 AM

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just yoink it

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it was a rare drop off a rare spawn in LBRS right

distant saffron May 22, 2019, 6:19 AM

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Yup

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~5% drop rate

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iirc

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Which I probably don't so ignore me

calm gate May 22, 2019, 12:37 PM

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hoi leute

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hello guys

lament musk May 22, 2019, 1:25 PM

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hey

slender scarab May 22, 2019, 2:22 PM

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When do you guys think next wave of invites go out?

lament musk May 22, 2019, 2:25 PM

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maybe after the stress test, tmorrow?

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what professions are people picking? Personally I am going to level with Mining and enchanting, then swap out mining for engineering when I reach max.

past tide May 22, 2019, 2:38 PM

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cant imagine tanking without engineering at this point

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I usually stick with mining to do DM:E runs

crimson jay May 22, 2019, 2:45 PM

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I'm torn on 2nd profession for endgame. Engineering is a must obviously but then it's tied between Ench, Alch and BS for me. personally prefer Enchanting because being able to disenchant and not having to look for an Enchanter each time you get a new item is cool. however, big pain in the butt to max out. I guess that Alch probably is a good money maker but you can just stock up on consumables. BS is only interesting if you can get the rare/epic recipes (Lionheart etc.) very early so you can charge ridiculous crafting fees.

idle shale May 22, 2019, 2:47 PM

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Herb/Alc is tempting. But I've also considered Enchanting/mining/engi in various forms as well

wary bobcat May 22, 2019, 2:48 PM

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I never played WoW until recently but i heard that crafting professions used to give stat boosts or sth right?
Will that be a thing again?

crimson jay May 22, 2019, 2:48 PM

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not in Classic

idle shale May 22, 2019, 2:48 PM

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Herb/Alch is most tempting because I'm not gonna be putting in tons of time to classic

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and yeah no stat boosts from professions in classic

past tide May 22, 2019, 2:48 PM

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herb/alch is higly dependant on your guild aswell

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very organized ones will actually act as a team on that regard

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and in fact spect of every single raider of having engineering

wary bobcat May 22, 2019, 2:49 PM

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Ah ok
So it is an economic pick?
Not so much dependant on combat?

crimson jay May 22, 2019, 2:49 PM

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gathering professions after leveling and inital gold grind are a big no-no to me. I will make most of my gold from playing the AH as always.

past tide May 22, 2019, 2:50 PM

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@wary bobcat quite the contrary, they are huge in both pvp and pve

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but, engineering is the only one that ask you having certain skill lvl to use it's items

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but you can fully use alchemy items not being one.

crimson jay May 22, 2019, 2:51 PM

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yeah, need Engineering, don't need Alchemy yourself

wary bobcat May 22, 2019, 2:51 PM

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Ah ok
So every character will do Engineering pretty much?
If you want to minmax

crimson jay May 22, 2019, 2:52 PM

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yes

main hemlock May 22, 2019, 2:52 PM

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what good stuffs did engi have don't remember at all

wary bobcat May 22, 2019, 2:52 PM

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Rip economy lul

main hemlock May 22, 2019, 2:52 PM

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I had alch herb back then

past tide May 22, 2019, 2:52 PM

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bombs, are huge both as dps boosts and for aoe aggro

main hemlock May 22, 2019, 2:52 PM

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when no one knew how to minmx

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ahh

past tide May 22, 2019, 2:53 PM

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tanks have specific shields that also great for aoe tanking

crimson jay May 22, 2019, 2:53 PM

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bombs/grenades, trinkets, shield, cloaking device, mind control cap, ....

past tide May 22, 2019, 2:53 PM

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on top of it you have gnomish battlechicken wich gives you a buf of 5% haste?

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cant remember the exact amount

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and thats only for pve, on pvp is even more important

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjG4UpuL84M&t=50

YouTube

Monkeynews

APES

APES Farewell to ND by Parla and Honcho https://www.twitch.tv/parlatv https://www.twitch.tv/honcho1

▶ Play video

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see all those fire explosions? that's goblin sapper charges

main hemlock May 22, 2019, 2:58 PM

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can't remember ever seeing it in vanilla, maybe some guy with 200iq did.. lol

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engi it is then

crimson jay May 22, 2019, 2:59 PM

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meta has evolved

lament musk May 22, 2019, 3:07 PM

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engi can make a good shield too i think it does damage on block but has a 50% chance to lose durability when u block. having multiple of those for aoe packs is good

past tide May 22, 2019, 3:08 PM

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2 are enough imo, unless you are in for a wipe fest

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but even then you should have some repair bots either way

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granted the values are the same as pservers yada yada

cunning tartan May 22, 2019, 3:12 PM

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hey ppl

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wow is classic 😃

uncut hare May 22, 2019, 4:26 PM

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📎 IMG_20190523_022603.jpg

lament musk May 22, 2019, 4:46 PM

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fun? no way!

hollow reef May 22, 2019, 5:21 PM

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Honestly alchemy ain’t bad end game for money making

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I wouldn’t do any of the armor crafting professions imo

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Those are money sinks

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Like cool. You can make robes of the arch mage, but those are obsolete real fast in the raid tiers

frosty haven May 22, 2019, 5:29 PM

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if you find a rare recipe that has big value, you can make bank

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but yeah its not always consistent cash

past tide May 22, 2019, 5:38 PM

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thing is, if you want to be a BS you probably need to have some hell of a lucky runs in pugs or be designated as "official BS" for the guild thus giving you prio in the most juicy recipes

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alchemy is okeish, since you can be tank and reserve flask recipes and get away with it, since said recipes come from different dungeons

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Tailoring is great for casters once ZG is open, you can craft a insanely good set.

solar matrix May 22, 2019, 5:42 PM

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Anyone in beta find a working autoturnin yet

past tide May 22, 2019, 5:42 PM

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wish I was in the beta feelsbadman

tiny osprey May 22, 2019, 7:14 PM

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Arcanite Reaper recipe

hollow reef May 22, 2019, 7:18 PM

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Alchemy is a guarantee money sink if you sell transmutes

main hemlock May 22, 2019, 7:38 PM

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money sink wadner

faint raft May 22, 2019, 7:45 PM

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Trying to remember, Execute was actually a DPS loss at high rage, right? Wasn't it most efficient to use at 15 rage?

idle shale May 22, 2019, 7:49 PM

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It scaled linearly I'm pretty sure, or if it didn't it was still the best button to hit

faint raft May 22, 2019, 7:52 PM

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All right, I'm looking at the tooltip on wowhead classic. 600 base damage at rank 5, +15 damage per extra rage spent. Just being tooltip math with no regard at all for AP or anything else, you'd need another 40 rage on top just to double the damage. :\

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Assuming the tooltips are accurate, even, which I won't be surprised if they're not. 🤷

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By how long you're typing, I'm assuming I've forgotten something very fundamental but not so fundamental that you'd respond with just 'lmao.'

idle shale May 22, 2019, 8:02 PM

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Yeah sure, but it only competes against other abilities like Mortal Strike. If you have improved execute a 30 rage execute is 30 damage per rage. I'm having a hard time finding a good calculation for mortal strike weapon damage with gear + the damage on the ability lol. But I don't think it would be higher than 20 damage per rage

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and that's with a pretty good weapon like Ashkandi

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so it doesn't scale linearly, that's true. But it's still your best attack

faint raft May 22, 2019, 8:05 PM

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A 10-15 rage Execute for sure would be the best pick if that's all the rage you had. But if you had 45 or more, and assuming you wouldn't otherwise be GCD locked for some reason or another (meaning we have the luxury to spread abilities over more GCDs for the sake DPR), I have a hunch that hitting Mortal Strike, then a smaller, more controlled Execute, might actually be a better use of that extra rage. That extra 30 rage into Execute just wouldn't really create that much extra damage. Certainly not more than a Mortal Strike could, I don't think, at least not with a decent weapon.

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30 rage vs 30 rage would be a more interesting fight that I'd probably hand over to Execute, but after 45, I don't know anymore.

idle shale May 22, 2019, 8:07 PM

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there's also the factor that at high gear levels your rage income is insane

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and if you waste 30 rage because you hit mortal strike instead of dumping with execute

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that's also a problem

faint raft May 22, 2019, 8:07 PM

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Which is where if we're GCD locked or not comes in, in my consideration

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If you're running out of GCDs in a mad dash to not overcap, then yeah, whatever dumps the most the fastest wins

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That said, it's going to be fun trying to explain to the healers why they need to not bubble or dispel me until I'm almost dead. Need that RFDT, baby

distant saffron May 22, 2019, 8:09 PM

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Execute always, unless AP is about 2k - 2.05k, then use BT > execute

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But only from about 30-65 rage

main hemlock May 22, 2019, 8:36 PM

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stand in fire dps higher

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heal plz

dark echo May 22, 2019, 9:00 PM

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Taunt boss as dps

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Get smacked for max dps

modern garden May 22, 2019, 9:20 PM

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taunt boss in order to parry

nova knoll May 22, 2019, 9:43 PM

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taunt boss and leave the area to reset

past tide May 22, 2019, 10:55 PM

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When in doubt just top the metters

crimson jay May 22, 2019, 11:01 PM

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it is known

nova knoll May 22, 2019, 11:04 PM

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ5nV9aKthU

YouTube

Stevie A

Eric Andre Let me in

▶ Play video

twin oar May 23, 2019, 12:01 AM

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500 queue on stress test lol

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oh i meant 300

tender estuary May 23, 2019, 12:03 AM

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mine's rarely below 2k

twin oar May 23, 2019, 12:04 AM

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Realm is offline

tender estuary May 23, 2019, 12:06 AM

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i think the server is more or less working now? just that it is constantly full

nova knoll May 23, 2019, 12:50 AM

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it was working for a minute then they took it offline

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I think it's still down

faint raft May 23, 2019, 1:44 AM

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some of you guys are all right, don't log on to stress test tomorrow

📎 SPOILER_lmao.png

slender scarab May 23, 2019, 2:27 AM

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wtf

nova knoll May 23, 2019, 2:59 AM

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I'm in boys

jade fog May 23, 2019, 6:54 AM

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They are really... Stressing that test

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👏

white marlin May 23, 2019, 9:16 AM

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Yay I'm hyped.

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Oh I missed the test. 😭

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It was today, wasn't it?

mild zinc May 23, 2019, 11:27 AM

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I solo'd Zalazane and logged off, ama

hearty zephyr May 23, 2019, 2:27 PM

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heya guys, i'm new here in the classic section, so i was wondering (always the same question i guess ?), even if war isn't that easy to lvlup, what is the best race for ant spec as war ?

misty bolt May 23, 2019, 2:27 PM

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Orc

hearty zephyr May 23, 2019, 2:27 PM

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a friend told me to do an undead, but i wanted to do an orc

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@misty bolt why orc ?

misty bolt May 23, 2019, 2:27 PM

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Stun resist,axe skill, blood fury

lament musk May 23, 2019, 2:28 PM

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dont go undead they dont get any benefits. orc has axe specialisation for extra damage, blood fury (dont use while tanking). Trolls are good for tanking too with berserking

knotty pivot May 23, 2019, 2:28 PM

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Orc master race and yes warr is slow lvln unless you run with a healer type frand

misty bolt May 23, 2019, 2:29 PM

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Undead get free food and fear break but wars dont need those

hearty zephyr May 23, 2019, 2:30 PM

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okay thnx, so let's get RP a strong Orc War ^^

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and when playing Ally ? Human ?

lament musk May 23, 2019, 2:31 PM

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Human yes

misty bolt May 23, 2019, 2:31 PM

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Yeah human but dwarf can be nice for pvp

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Or gnome

hearty zephyr May 23, 2019, 2:32 PM

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not going to do that much pvp i guess

bright peak May 23, 2019, 2:38 PM

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Then human for the weapon skill options

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And obviously the most important is stealth detection

hearty zephyr May 23, 2019, 2:43 PM

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why is dwarf better for pvp ?

grand sentinel May 23, 2019, 2:44 PM

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stoneform is good

sterile orchid May 23, 2019, 3:55 PM

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what do you guys think of prot in classic

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I'm between that and bear

frosty haven May 23, 2019, 3:56 PM

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prot is better than feral in general

sterile orchid May 23, 2019, 3:56 PM

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guardian*

frosty haven May 23, 2019, 3:56 PM

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guardian and feral are the same spec in classic 😄

sterile orchid May 23, 2019, 3:57 PM

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oh gawd you're right

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I love the old talents

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I love my prot big boi but I like the idea of travel form xD

frosty haven May 23, 2019, 3:59 PM

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yeah i guess it depends on what your goals are
if you want to raid, you will have opportunities as a warrior
but druid is better for solo content and arguably pvp

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thats not to say you cant raid as a druid

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feral tanks are viable, and resto is strong

sterile orchid May 23, 2019, 4:04 PM

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Cool, ty for the input. Noted! I'll dabble, and I'm sure i'll eventually make a prot warrior if I don't start with it.

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Those two are always my main characters in the game xD

frosty haven May 23, 2019, 4:04 PM

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👍

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also side note, fury is beastmode and arms is pretty good in pvp especially with a pocket healer

dry bone May 23, 2019, 5:10 PM

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Human #1 for alli in terms of numbers, but night elf have some nice quality of life traits. 50% move speed in wisp is actually useful in classic (you will die and the run back sucks) and shadowmeld can be very useful for suprise advantage for defending in pvp battleground. Charge cant be used in combat so guaranteeing a charge out of shadowmeld stealth is useful.

misty bolt May 23, 2019, 5:38 PM

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also 1% dodge

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and double jump

sterile orchid May 23, 2019, 5:50 PM

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hold up hold up...you're gonna play alliance? :P I'm 100% gonna be a tauren for druid and prolly warrior too...then not sure about shammy yet. alliance will definitely not have any of my love in classic xD

frosty haven May 23, 2019, 5:51 PM

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:smorc:

past tide May 23, 2019, 6:00 PM

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If you are going horde bear is out of the table I think (you don't benefit from WF)

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While in the alliance they are legit off tanks

misty bolt May 23, 2019, 6:15 PM

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Tauren with their broken hitbox

minor ferry May 23, 2019, 7:18 PM

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Is there a decent classic gear guide for warrior that came out of any of the private servers? Wana do my research

warm karma May 23, 2019, 7:25 PM

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I can't wait to charge something and wait 30 minutes to be able to do heroic strike on the next stress test.

prisma meteor May 23, 2019, 8:41 PM

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So torn. My warrior was first toon in vanilla and my main to this day. Leveling up another warrior for the VE heritage armor was fun but tiring. Thinking about a rogue or mage for vanilla but likely to go warrior again. Was fun at 60 but such a task getting there. Anyone else in the same boat?

nova knoll May 23, 2019, 9:16 PM

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orc warrior and undead mage are my fav

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hands down

crimson jay May 23, 2019, 9:16 PM

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Warrior is love. Warrior is life.

idle shale May 23, 2019, 9:17 PM

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Hunter and Mage have both tempted me, but really all I want to do is go Windfury some fools in PvP

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so warrior it will be

misty bolt May 23, 2019, 9:18 PM

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Warrior is defined by a weapon and Classic has so many cool ones

crimson jay May 23, 2019, 9:18 PM

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can't wait to have all the cool Warrior stuff back

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Stances, Heroic Strike yoyo

misty bolt May 23, 2019, 9:19 PM

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hard hitting execute

crimson jay May 23, 2019, 9:19 PM

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50% MS Pog

main hemlock May 23, 2019, 9:20 PM

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one hitting clothies pog

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Deleted

crimson jay May 23, 2019, 9:20 PM

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be top tank, be top dps, be top pvp (group)

main hemlock May 23, 2019, 9:21 PM

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be the man

crimson jay May 23, 2019, 9:21 PM

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assert dominance

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be the Alpha chad

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making your enemies tremble in fear and your healsluts wet

charred otter May 24, 2019, 12:30 AM

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Is it worth dual wielding in deep prot?

distant saffron May 24, 2019, 12:31 AM

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No

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Why would you ever DW in Deep prot

charred otter May 24, 2019, 12:32 AM

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Get more threat on bosses with minimal damage intake

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And quick switch weapons for shield slam or something

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I haven't played so wanna get a clue

distant saffron May 24, 2019, 12:34 AM

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If you want more threat and have the AP to support it, you go 32/19 instead

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Talents, you can change a few points here and there based on preference:

charred otter May 24, 2019, 12:37 AM

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Deep fury? I don't wanna do that off the bat especially cause I'll be stuck in that build the whole night

distant saffron May 24, 2019, 12:38 AM

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and have the AP to support it,

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Most guilds will never need more than Impale Prot

charred otter May 24, 2019, 12:40 AM

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Thanks for the links. I'll probably impale prot but trying to research my options

modern garden May 24, 2019, 1:28 AM

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What about early dungeon tanking like ironfoe runs

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Is there any value in fury prot there

distant saffron May 24, 2019, 1:29 AM

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I'd just be arms tbh

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For sweeping strikes on the trash

modern garden May 24, 2019, 1:30 AM

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Oh interesting

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So like 31/20?

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Er

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31/0/20

distant saffron May 24, 2019, 1:31 AM

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No, just standard Arms build

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You can easily tank dungeons as any spec

modern garden May 24, 2019, 1:32 AM

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Ah

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Also been meaning to ask but what's the purpose of the 2h slam build for alliance. I know for horde windfury is gr8 but when would you use that

distant saffron May 24, 2019, 1:34 AM

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when you have a 2H and nothing good in terms of DW weapons

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Steppenwolf, Mattz both used 2H slam quite well

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and with UTB at 2ppm its really strong

modern garden May 24, 2019, 1:34 AM

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So just super early or bad raid rng?

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Makes sense

distant saffron May 24, 2019, 1:36 AM

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Both

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2H Slam on ally is probs one of the hardest ways to play fury

nova knoll May 24, 2019, 1:49 AM

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after playing classic for the first time as someone that joined wow in legion

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jesus christ classic is so much better

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what happened

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classic is like cocaine and bfa is like the worst fast food you've ever had

ebon harbor May 24, 2019, 2:00 AM

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cant wait for classic to drop!

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warrior all over again! been one since vanilla till present. level fury till 40 switch to arms and never look back. well until raiding then go fury and top the charts.

nova knoll May 24, 2019, 2:18 AM

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lol

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m o r t a l s t r i k e ' d

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s t r u c k

#

s h o o k

#

I wish bladestorm was in classic

rose harness May 24, 2019, 8:53 AM

#

Whats the consensus for best Prot warr on Alliance?
Pure mitigation its quite clear that Nelf are the better race, but also a bit to gain from going Human.
Im planning on going for being the main tank, so I'm wondering if the mitigation on Nelf is just better overall or if its kinda 50/50 between going nelf or human

distant saffron May 24, 2019, 8:54 AM

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Human

#

100%

jade fog May 24, 2019, 9:02 AM

#

Go gnome for luls

main hemlock May 24, 2019, 9:03 AM

#

never go gnome

#

or you have to use deviate fish always

jade fog May 24, 2019, 9:04 AM

#

👏

#

Think big, go small

main hemlock May 24, 2019, 9:04 AM

#

and noggen

azure oar May 24, 2019, 9:05 AM

#

Am wandering guys, regarding professions, is it better to start with mining and herbalism to get some money on AH (then switch from herb to engi) or go with mining and engi from the beggining?

rose harness May 24, 2019, 9:13 AM

#

@distant saffron Why Human 100%?

distant saffron May 24, 2019, 9:13 AM

#

Weapon skill too strong

#

1% dodge is pathetic

rose harness May 24, 2019, 9:14 AM

#

But iirc the best tanking weapon from MC/BWL is an axe

#

So that kinda negates the weaponskill untill TF

distant saffron May 24, 2019, 9:15 AM

#

Except if ur human, you can take different weapons, and your stupid nonhuman furys can take the axe instead

rose harness May 24, 2019, 9:15 AM

#

Hmm... good point, but I guess those other weapons are going to rogues aswell 😄

#

Will definitely consider it, since my leveling buddy is going dorf priest

#

Makes more sense with human i guess 😄

distant saffron May 24, 2019, 9:16 AM

#

Tell your rogues to fuck off

#

You're the tank

rose harness May 24, 2019, 9:16 AM

#

haha

distant saffron May 24, 2019, 9:16 AM

#

Rogues won't want AWH anyway

lament musk May 24, 2019, 3:13 PM

#

In classic you want to prio threat as a tank (after def cap), more threat means more raid dps.

dry bone May 24, 2019, 3:27 PM

#

In what scenarios do you use slam in classic. I know there are some slam specs but it looks like you only ever use it with a 2hander and never dual wield? Is it used in pve only and not pvp? Seems like an odd ability

dapper mural May 24, 2019, 3:33 PM

#

Mostly in Arms in pve

#

It was your primary filler

dry bone May 24, 2019, 3:42 PM

#

Would you use it in place of heroic strike or in conjunction with? Also, would you still use slam if your not talented in it for the cast time reduction?

dapper mural May 24, 2019, 3:56 PM

#

Heroic strike takes the place of your next auto attack and you don't get rage

#

To effectively use slam, you cast it immediately after your auto attack lands, giving you the benefit of the rage gain.

#

If you're playing arms for pve, there's no point in not talenting into it

peak solar May 24, 2019, 5:11 PM

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All the streamers are making the “i was wrong about classic” videos

faint raft May 24, 2019, 5:46 PM

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If you're playing arms for pve, there's no point in not talenting into it```

Wish I had as many talent points available to spend as you.

dry bone May 24, 2019, 6:22 PM

#

That makes sense for slam usage. Thanks

steel flare May 24, 2019, 7:27 PM

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Is there a non scuffed threat meter for beta yet?

ebon totem May 24, 2019, 11:25 PM

#

Question for all of you dps monsters:

It feels like a bit of waste to watch 2h's collect dust while warrior and rogues fight over limited 1h's. As such, I'd like to go 2h dps. The fury/slam appears to be the most viable but the challenge is that I'll be playing as alliance.

My questions are:

Is there any clear information about the output delta between dw and 2h fury as an alliance warrior (without BRE to start)
Does making use of 2h drops that otherwise will not improve raid output make having at least one 2h warrior an ROI positive investment for an alliance guild?

faint raft May 25, 2019, 3:46 AM

#

It's a lot harder to play than dw fury, but imp slam 2h fury can compete and sometimes outright win on a low-movement fight in the later tiers, or at least that's been the recent conclusion on private servers. 🤷

Either way, your raid will lose more dos by that one guy who just won't give up on trying to play balance, or subtlety, or shadow than it ever would by you opting for 2h fury.

If RL makes a fuss, say you're interested in pushing pvp ranks, so you need the 2h anyway. Gimme dat Ashkandi.

As far as being alliance goes, there shouldn't be too much of a difference in your output. Just a question of orc with axe or human with sword, unless I'm overlooking something

distant saffron May 25, 2019, 3:48 AM

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No concrete data, but its low. Your rage gen is shit, and the spec feels clunky to play
Not really - Only 3 weps that are useful for it are BRE, Ashkandi, and UTB, and the first 2 are all desired for PvP as well. BRE is shit on bosses, but UTB is quite strong. You need to be very good tho

main hemlock May 25, 2019, 9:56 AM

#

DW is a lot more fun

dreamy ice May 25, 2019, 5:54 PM

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@faint raft windfury is the difference

faint raft May 25, 2019, 5:54 PM

#

Ah, fair enough

dreamy ice May 25, 2019, 5:54 PM

#

DW is just better. If you pick up a good 2H it's super fun in pvp

#

(Also, shamans won't be using 2H swords. But I assume they meant windfury)

slender scarab May 25, 2019, 6:45 PM

#

what is best horde race for sword spec

#

do you prefer Tauren or undead

dreamy ice May 25, 2019, 7:06 PM

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UD is better for the first couple raids in classic no doubt

#

I don't see any point in being tauren unless you really want the stomp

nova knoll May 26, 2019, 3:53 AM

#

when's august

gusty frost May 26, 2019, 8:49 AM

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@ebon totem I recall raiding both 2h arms 31/20 and also 2h fury (dont recall the spec exactly) but more than 31 was put into fury) with great sucess in Bwl/aq40

main hemlock May 26, 2019, 8:55 AM

#

arms is monkaS, MS debuff

#

means you will fuck some caster

#

I did the same at beginning of MC, but didn't know about the debuff limits and stuff back then

misty bolt May 26, 2019, 12:05 PM

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Arent there max debuff slots from the start ?

distant saffron May 26, 2019, 12:06 PM

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16 debuffs is still not a lot

main hemlock May 26, 2019, 12:16 PM

#

like half will be taken by sunder and other debuffs

#

curses

#

no room for MS

misty bolt May 26, 2019, 12:18 PM

#

Isnt BRE bis tho ?

distant saffron May 26, 2019, 12:21 PM

#

Not for bosses

#

Was bis on private servers because they overtuned content

cunning lotus May 26, 2019, 12:31 PM

#

Is warrior really that terrible to level ?

misty bolt May 26, 2019, 12:32 PM

#

No

#

Just compared to ezmode hunter

lament musk May 26, 2019, 1:53 PM

#

don't forget the nightfall debuff.

worldly dust May 26, 2019, 5:59 PM

#

any warr here with beta that can test if the heroic strike bug works?

ebon totem May 26, 2019, 10:16 PM

#

@faint raft @distant saffron thanks alot for your perspectives. I appreciate everyone else's reponse too.

It's a pretty tough decision for but I know that I'll be playing alliance and pushing raid content. I also know that I'll be pvping very actively as arms, so im going to be desiring 2h's either way. I know all the DPS warriors will be going dw because it's so good, so maybe I should just use the 2h spec to make my gear path more optimal.

dusk ice May 27, 2019, 1:03 AM

#

Anyone else remember 2H tanking? all the blessings of high threat, none of the misses

distant saffron May 27, 2019, 1:04 AM

#

Yes, its fun

#

Doesnt have as great threat as DW tho

main hemlock May 27, 2019, 7:02 AM

#

tanked BRD with a 2h as lvl 53 or something 🤔

steel flare May 27, 2019, 7:10 AM

#

What HS bug?

distant saffron May 27, 2019, 7:25 AM

#

@main hemlock I assumed he meant raid tanking

#

I've 2H tanked Sulfuron before

#

Its very fun :risitas:

main hemlock May 27, 2019, 8:47 AM

#

back in MC our tank tried fury tanking couple times, he wanted to out dps actual dps .. but he felt bad so he went back to prot 😆

#

he was a good man

grand lodge May 27, 2019, 11:25 AM

#

Hello, I'm looking for the ratio to calculate in% parry, dodge, blockage, touch and expertise in war tank

humble totem May 27, 2019, 11:44 AM

#

expertise isnt in pre-tbc

gloomy lake May 27, 2019, 2:10 PM

#

from what i've been seeing 2H fury is doable on alliance but weak vs horde side purely because WF totem exists

#

your rage generation is gimped in comparison

#

also in terms of debuffs, aye there's a cap of 16 but debuffs follow a priority system, deep wounds and ms are low prio iirc so they'll never knock off sunder/curses

#

also @ebon totem if you want to pvp as well as raid just remember respecs are 50g a pop and that's a significant amount in vanilla so maybe just go arms

lament musk May 27, 2019, 2:35 PM

#

Alternative to paying 50g per respec, quit your job, leave your wife and kids and maintain 2 level 60 warriors. One for pvp one for pve. That's the real vanilla experience.

gloomy lake May 27, 2019, 2:40 PM

#

or level a mage for high quality aoe farming

misty bolt May 27, 2019, 3:01 PM

#

Or just main a mage

copper helm May 27, 2019, 6:37 PM

#

I remember playing on Nost and not having the debuff priority active. No one wanted to Raid as a DPS Warrior 😂

main hemlock May 27, 2019, 6:38 PM

#

who raids as arms

#

no one who cares about dps

copper helm May 27, 2019, 6:39 PM

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the PvPers who dont wanna respec lol

main hemlock May 27, 2019, 6:40 PM

#

heroic strike 👌 💩

copper helm May 27, 2019, 6:40 PM

#

loool

#

no Crit Dmg tho cause of Deep Wounds

main hemlock May 27, 2019, 6:43 PM

#

just auto attack

#

private servers wadner

copper helm May 27, 2019, 6:44 PM

#

still applies Deep Wounds 😀 🔫

main hemlock May 27, 2019, 6:45 PM

#

just use fists

#

tbh that sounds super scuffed

copper helm May 27, 2019, 6:46 PM

#

yeah, it was jank as hell

ebon totem May 27, 2019, 7:54 PM

#

@gloomy lake good call.

worldly dust May 28, 2019, 5:03 AM

#

@steel flare https://web.archive.org/web/20101108220908/http://elitistjerks.com/f81/t37680-depth_fury_dps_discussion/p128/ 9th post

In-Depth Fury DPS Discussion - Page 128 - Elitist Jerks

I'm actually wondering how wrong it is if you have slower OH weapon than MH? Even if its 0.1 difference? Did some research on that but couldn't find

#

as long as heroic strike or cleave is queued, you dont have the dw hit penalty on your offhand; it was discovered really late in wrath

distant saffron May 28, 2019, 5:08 AM

#

Is there any evidence for it in vanilla?

steel flare May 28, 2019, 5:50 AM

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@worldly dust thanks man

copper helm May 28, 2019, 9:20 AM

#

@distant saffron it was probably a bug with Titans Grip, so I'd guess maybe not?

distant saffron May 28, 2019, 9:23 AM

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Yeah, I just confirmed it with Vesri, so its pretty RIP

#

That wouldve been so fun to play with on classic

feral sluice May 28, 2019, 1:41 PM

#

you cant pvp as fury at all in bgs ?

#

also being fury will be better as the honour system for pvp ranks comes out much later ?

main hemlock May 28, 2019, 2:15 PM

#

you can with good gear

#

but its still worse than arms for bursting ppl

#

and you take more damage with deathwish etc

jade fog May 28, 2019, 2:21 PM

#

I want that damn beta access 😦

past tide May 28, 2019, 2:31 PM

#

You can pvp as prot if you want, can you join a pre-made and rank up to the most juicy items as fury? Probably not.

main hemlock May 28, 2019, 2:50 PM

#

MS debuff is so strong

copper helm May 28, 2019, 3:19 PM

#

If you can get the Deathbringer Axe from Ony early on, you'd be in a good position for PvP as Fury

#

There are so many iconic weapons to be obtained as a Warrior, it is really hard to settle on what spec to Main

misty bolt May 28, 2019, 5:10 PM

#

yeah lots of big weaps are around the same dps and have interesting procs

vapid solar May 28, 2019, 9:35 PM

#

If I can get jinrokh I’ll be set for life

misty bolt May 28, 2019, 10:15 PM

#

thats like the shittiest grind in the game

slender scarab May 28, 2019, 11:22 PM

#

What spec was generally best for raiding in classic fury or arms?

distant saffron May 28, 2019, 11:23 PM

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Fury

#

Arms is awful with the updated talents

#

Most guilds won't even let you raid as it

slender scarab May 28, 2019, 11:23 PM

#

That’s for classic wow right

distant saffron May 28, 2019, 11:32 PM

#

Yes

idle shale May 29, 2019, 1:22 AM

#

not really wrong for BfA tho

#

xd

modern garden May 29, 2019, 3:06 AM

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ya but who cares about bfa xd

main hemlock May 29, 2019, 7:32 AM

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F u r y boys

#

feelsgoodman when you get perma flurry

green spoke May 29, 2019, 5:17 PM

#

For orc arms warrior pvp, is it worth giving up 10 points out of Fury for Iron Will in prot?

haughty ember May 29, 2019, 6:06 PM

#

Was this discord the one who got the hit table post together?

#

Or does anyone know which it was?

gleaming grail May 29, 2019, 6:21 PM

#

What is DRE? I recognize UTB and ofc asscandy but i cant recall that weapon

lavish marlin May 29, 2019, 6:24 PM

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I'm guessing its Dreadforge Retaliator

#

or it could be a typo and it was ment to be BRE, BoneReavers edge

gleaming grail May 29, 2019, 6:26 PM

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Ah yeah its dreadforge

#

Forgot about that one, i never got it to drop back in the day and ended up with ice barbed spear then TUF/jinrokh

main hemlock May 29, 2019, 8:21 PM

#

tfw you vendored og jinrokh

#

or deleted 💩

distant saffron May 29, 2019, 8:23 PM

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@haughty ember no, it wasn't this one

haughty ember May 29, 2019, 8:30 PM

#

Yeah I found it, no worries.

solar matrix May 29, 2019, 9:09 PM

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@green spoke it's kind of a meme build, giving up enrage + blood craze + piercing is a lot

#

Id only go it if stuns were driving me up the fucking wall for some reason in particular.

#

Could gain value if layering it super abusable and everyone and their mother has tidal charm tho lol

green spoke May 30, 2019, 12:28 AM

#

Ah. Yea I was comparing IW vs what it would cost and it's pretty sketchy. The defense skill talent is kind of a waste. But having 40% stun resist is enticing.

solar matrix May 30, 2019, 2:27 AM

#

@distant saffron turns out there was an issue with pserver hittables afterall lmao

distant saffron May 30, 2019, 2:27 AM

#

Yup

#

8% hit confirmed

#

And baeza formula also confirmed maybe

#

Which is really good

solar matrix May 30, 2019, 2:29 AM

#

i just need to know what this does

#

for weaponskillk

#

is edgemaster more or less mandatory now

idle shale May 30, 2019, 3:00 AM

#

They said in the post weapon skill is performing as described and as expected with no changes. Which means it’s still OP

distant saffron May 30, 2019, 3:02 AM

#

Well it looks like baeza

#

Which like I said

#

Is hige

lusty robin May 30, 2019, 8:54 AM

#

idk why people keep coming up with claims based on private server behavior, when it's long been known that private servers never had most of the combat data and just guesstimated values

jade fog May 30, 2019, 9:35 AM

#

Archi in classic discord 👀

main hemlock May 30, 2019, 10:49 AM

#

at this point it's safe to say private servers were mega scuffed

lavish marlin May 30, 2019, 12:38 PM

#

How else would you give somewhat reasonable feedback on the Classic beta, other than comparing it to pservers?

They have years of research put into them on what exactly it was like back in the day.
Yes, a lot of it is guesswork but outside of the Blizz reference client we dont have a better source for comparison.

main hemlock May 30, 2019, 2:02 PM

#

by comparing it to actual vanilla

#

but it's kind of hard to remember

#

that's why they invited mostly old timers who had account back then

lavish marlin May 30, 2019, 2:11 PM

#

How are you going to compare it to actual vanilla w/o the reference client ?

Of course its hard to remember, thats why the people who helped create those servers put in countless hours of work to figure out the exact numbers with the data they had available.

dapper mural May 30, 2019, 3:29 PM

#

When did deep wounds become good for buffing rogues?

uneven aspen May 30, 2019, 3:40 PM

#

https://classic.wowhead.com/news=291996/not-a-bug-combat-table-values-in-classic-wow
Vanilla bosses are supposed to have 9% more parry than they do on private servers

Wowhead

Not a Bug: Combat Table Values in Classic WoW

Blizzard has investigated detailed claims that hit table behavior was not working properly on the Classic WOW beta. They confirmed that the hit table behavior worked properly and provided an equally-detailed explanation on how combat table values work in Classic WoW.

main hemlock May 30, 2019, 5:42 PM

#

well im not sure what your point is, you cant really compare to private servers either due to them having stuff made up

lavish marlin May 30, 2019, 5:48 PM

#

My point is, using the pservers as a source of comparison is our best option atm.
They might not have the most correct figures, but its better than trying to give feedback based on our 15 yo memories how things were.

main hemlock May 30, 2019, 5:49 PM

#

yes but still not optimal, imo just play the beta and report any stuff you think might be wrong

#

if i actually had beta 💩

lavish marlin May 30, 2019, 5:56 PM

#

indeed, feelsbadman

lament musk May 30, 2019, 6:37 PM

#

i was 14 when i played classic, i aint remembering shit on how hard hitting/the numbers were. The only thing we have to compare by is those potato quality videos of people playing on youtube and private servers. There was a recent video of someone comparing beasts of the same level from beta to a private server using beast lore, to see if the damage is the same. but apparently beast lore is bugged in beta atm

main hemlock May 30, 2019, 7:09 PM

#

didnt blizz say the damage is correct on beta

uneven aspen May 30, 2019, 7:38 PM

#

yes
but what this means with a whopping 9% more parry is that parry haste is a legitimate concern

#

especially for DW Fury tanking

#

which will probably get hit much in dramatically larger spikes by lots of parry haste rather than one big swing

#

which sort of explains why DW Fury tanking never cropped up in retail Vanilla yet it is very prevalent on pservers

#

and also the threat increase of DW tanking is a lot lower because they're going to be parried all the time

lavish marlin May 30, 2019, 7:41 PM

#

DW Fury will take a hit with 14% parry and World buffs on a 2h CD. But it will still be a thing I'm sure.

uneven aspen May 30, 2019, 7:41 PM

#

when you're overgearing the content, yeah

lavish marlin May 30, 2019, 7:42 PM

#

Yeah, I dont think you need it prior to melee getting r14 weps

#

especially on alliance

uneven aspen May 30, 2019, 7:42 PM

#

this actually hurts fury DPS the most probably

#

because you will constantly be pulling threat regardless of your type of tank

#

which doesn't mean they are bad by any means

#

if you look at Nihilum world first videos, they usually have 1-2 fury warriors in their top 10 damage meters

#

it means rogues and mages (as conventional wisdom was at the time) are probably better than they are on pservers because they do less threat

misty bolt May 30, 2019, 8:22 PM

#

thats not bad, pservers stacking 20 dps warriors is ridiculous

uneven aspen May 30, 2019, 9:02 PM

#

it's all starting to make sense in perspective now

white marlin May 30, 2019, 10:12 PM

#

How does the invite happen btw? Will I get an email?

tender estuary May 30, 2019, 11:15 PM

#

You should, but look at the launcher mainly. you might see it there long before you get any email

lusty robin May 31, 2019, 1:45 AM

#

``How else would you give somewhat reasonable feedback on the Classic beta, other than comparing it to pservers?

They have years of research put into them on what exactly it was like back in the day.``

@lavish marlin no offence, but that's a kind of an ignorant comment (not the comaprison part, but the "years of research")

#

Sure, you can draw comparisons to some things

#

but you shouldn't be drawing numerical ones related to engine information that even the owners of said private servers have stated were made up

nova knoll May 31, 2019, 2:50 AM

#

is the stress test coming back up again soon? I got on it randomly this morning I had no idea it was up again I was just checking it out again

gleaming karma May 31, 2019, 2:50 AM

#

They had a test yesterday

cyan maple May 31, 2019, 3:27 AM

#

I think there are 2 more. Next in a bit over 2 weeks

lavish marlin May 31, 2019, 9:24 AM

#

None taken. @lusty robin

I don't think anyone claimed that the Pserver guys had accurate numerical values.

They guessed the values to the best of their abilities at the time, so reporting it to / asking blizzard if their combat table values are the same as on the reference client is an okay reason to submit a report.

They are the same? Yes. Okay, thanks.

lusty robin May 31, 2019, 9:25 AM

#

I get that, but that specific test case (as well put together as it was) had some alarms going off right from the start

#

like not knowing crit depression was in the game

lavish marlin May 31, 2019, 9:26 AM

#

Definitely

lusty robin May 31, 2019, 9:26 AM

#

I wasn't really bashing that bug report, because it was well put together, so much as the people who are clamoring about their experiences on private servers not matching up with beta

#

and jumping to the conclusion that beta is wrong as a result, when logically the opposite is more likely

distant saffron May 31, 2019, 9:27 AM

#

Most of us don't really give a shit if the beta is different - In fact, we've been super excited to see all the things we got right (or wrong)

#

Its nice to be able to see the correct formulas finally

#

no amount of time spent trawling through old posts can be compared to that statement from blizz tbh

#

The baguette logs have proven to be more interesting than originally thought

lavish marlin May 31, 2019, 9:32 AM

#

There will always be clowns who will claim that the beta is wrong even if Blizzard used their reference client for the live game.

The number crunchers are having a blast right now working with valid formulas / values right now.

distant saffron May 31, 2019, 9:32 AM

#

^^

#

We're having the time of our fucking lives atm

#

Just need beta to be level 40 now

#

So I can be 3/3 on my hit cap predictions

#

:rinsmug:

lavish marlin May 31, 2019, 9:33 AM

#

It's like playing PoE just from the Path of Building 😄

distant saffron May 31, 2019, 9:34 AM

#

no clue what that means but imma agree

lavish marlin May 31, 2019, 9:34 AM

#

Have you done any testing on the actual threat values from spells ?

distant saffron May 31, 2019, 9:34 AM

#

it's hard to atm

#

Because no cap

#

However, the 2 shouts don't seem to give threat, which goes against a guide from back in the day

jade fog May 31, 2019, 9:35 AM

#

Its heartwarming seeing people havinh genuine blast with Beta

lavish marlin May 31, 2019, 9:35 AM

#

At all ?

jade fog May 31, 2019, 9:35 AM

#

30 level cap is like new world in itself

distant saffron May 31, 2019, 9:35 AM

#

tfw Baeza was correct after 14 years of questioning

#

:feelsgladman:

#

frick

#

Enable emojis reee

lavish marlin May 31, 2019, 9:36 AM

#

This is a meme-free zone sir

jade fog May 31, 2019, 9:36 AM

#

Do you think pservers will take formulas from classic now

distant saffron May 31, 2019, 9:36 AM

#

@jade fog no, not from our testing

jade fog May 31, 2019, 9:36 AM

#

Or they will keep old values

distant saffron May 31, 2019, 9:36 AM

#

@jade fog dear god yes

#

Ofc they will

gleaming karma May 31, 2019, 9:37 AM

#

FeelsGoodMan

distant saffron May 31, 2019, 9:37 AM

#

:reee:

gleaming karma May 31, 2019, 9:37 AM

#

https://i.imgur.com/yWt0kdy.png

Imgur

#

sadcat

distant saffron May 31, 2019, 9:38 AM

#

:pepehands:

gleaming karma May 31, 2019, 9:38 AM

#

I was level 9

#

I had a green axe

jade fog May 31, 2019, 9:38 AM

#

Wow

gleaming karma May 31, 2019, 9:38 AM

#

agi/stam

jade fog May 31, 2019, 9:38 AM

#

Big boy

gleaming karma May 31, 2019, 9:38 AM

#

i was slapping

distant saffron May 31, 2019, 9:38 AM

#

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/582317222547030021/583477857125138432/unknown.png

#

This chart, along with a claim of 8% hit

jade fog May 31, 2019, 9:39 AM

#

If you were slapping than your axe was made of rubber

#

🤔

distant saffron May 31, 2019, 9:39 AM

#

was posted at the end of vanilla by a random guy named Baeza

#

Who claimed these were the accurate formula

#

Confirmed to be secret blue

#

:rinsmug:

lavish marlin May 31, 2019, 9:39 AM

#

Can you dm me the full list of his posts about vanilla forumals

jade fog May 31, 2019, 9:39 AM

#

So took 14 years to confirm it?

#

🤔

distant saffron May 31, 2019, 9:40 AM

#

Well, sort of

#

Theres a lot of formulas out there @jade fog

#

And this one had 1) no proof or data and 2) was contradicted by a few other sources

lavish marlin May 31, 2019, 9:40 AM

#

You are pining the wrong guy bruv

distant saffron May 31, 2019, 9:41 AM

#

?

lavish marlin May 31, 2019, 9:41 AM

#

Nvm, I thought you ment to ping me

jade fog May 31, 2019, 9:41 AM

#

Heh

lavish marlin May 31, 2019, 9:41 AM

#

about the formulas

#

mah bad

distant saffron May 31, 2019, 9:42 AM

#

however, he didn't seem to be entirely correct

#

He claimed 5.6% dodge/parry

#

:feelsbadman

#

https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Weapon_skill?oldid=349298 @lavish marlin this was the revision he posted to wowwiki

WoWWiki

Weapon skill?oldid=349298

Weapon skill represents your proficiency with a particular weapon. The basic formula for your maximum weapon skill at a particular level is (5 * level). Each attack which is not evaded has a...

#

It's super fun to see the things in the beta tho

#

like 308 glancing cap

#

For years we assumed that things made sense in vanilla

lavish marlin May 31, 2019, 9:45 AM

#

Did the pserver guys go with his dodge / parry percentages or try to figure it out for their own ?

Because if I recall correctly in BC it was believed that the bosses had an around 15% parry chance

distant saffron May 31, 2019, 9:45 AM

#

note : we thought wrong

#

we went with his

#

It's risky to use TBC evidence

#

because a lot was changed

#

Item stats, for example

#

on some of the naxx loot

lavish marlin May 31, 2019, 9:45 AM

#

Yeah I know

distant saffron May 31, 2019, 9:45 AM

#

Like the KT shield, which STILL hasn't been fixed on fucking nostcore despite me spamming the devs about it

#

Nost lul

lavish marlin May 31, 2019, 9:46 AM

#

Bis prot shield, poor paladins / shamans

distant saffron May 31, 2019, 9:46 AM

#

yup

#

But in vanilla ofc

#

it didn't have those stats

lavish marlin May 31, 2019, 9:46 AM

#

Aham

distant saffron May 31, 2019, 9:46 AM

#

3936 Armor
10 Stamina
10 Intellect
90 Shield Block Value
59 Healing
6 Mp5

These are in fact values from TBC. The correct values are;
3425 Armor
10 Stamina
10 Intellect
68 Shield Block Value
59 Healing
6 Mp5

The current iteration is the best survivability shield for Protection Warriors, as it offers extra Shield Block Value and armor over the Sapphiron Shield, "The Face of Death". This results in Warriors wanting the shield over classes that are intended to use it, such as paladins and shamans. Changing the shield to the correct armor value will allow the Sapphiron shield to reclaim its correct place as the best mitigation Shield.

Sources:

https://web.archive.org/web/20061120143233/http://wow.allakhazam.com:80/db/mob.html?wmob=15990 - KT drop table, with item tooltips
https://web.archive.org/web/20061126083847/http://wow.allakhazam.com:80/db/item.html?witem=22819 - Item Page.
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Shield_of_Condemnation?oldid=374257 - Revision as of 22:47, December 20, 2006
3425 Armor
68 Block
https://web.archive.org/web/20071023204849/http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/itemhistory.html?witem=22819. In this item history, the values change to the TBC value (3936/90) from the vanilla values (3425/68) 2 days before TBC prepatch - easily explained by either data mining or someone running their client on the TBC PTR.
https://web.archive.org/web/20060524223316/http://casterfriendly.com/newitems/shieldofcondemnation.jpg - Screenshot of the item stats, most likely taken on naxx PTR.```

#

the nost team went with a lot of TBC sources

#

surprised they didn't go with the parry but :shrug~1:

lavish marlin May 31, 2019, 9:47 AM

#

Except the combat table

distant saffron May 31, 2019, 9:47 AM

#

maybe they thought another source was better

lavish marlin May 31, 2019, 9:50 AM

#

I really looking forward trying to make a Shield Block Value impale spec in Classic once we get to raid Naxx.

As it stands, fury will be the go-to threat spec but on shorter fights, a shield block heavy set with the Saph trinket might give it a run for its money

mild crescent May 31, 2019, 5:25 PM

#

The 14% parry on bosses may put a pretty big damper on the pserver-style fury tanking (~5% there). Have a feeling parry hastened blows are gonna truck pretty hard for a lot of bosses

lavish marlin May 31, 2019, 5:59 PM

#

It's a fun paradox.
Because of the 14% parry chance, you will do less threat hence you will need to opt for furytank sooner.
But you will also take more dmg.

crimson jay May 31, 2019, 6:12 PM

#

(most) classic bosses are/weren't hitting that hard to make parry-haste a huge problem. parry-haste instagibs was a TBC thing.

lavish marlin May 31, 2019, 6:25 PM

#

Definitely, but take into account that your high tps-setup is really low on EHP and avoidance.
Stuff like Lionheart, Savage Glad chest, hit rings etc.

#

I guess we'll know for sure once we step foot into the actual raids.

crimson jay May 31, 2019, 6:36 PM

#

sure, you will have to find the right balance but as long as you can survive the worst-case-scenario and assuming competent healers and dps your primary concern should always be maxing out TPS/DPS

lavish marlin May 31, 2019, 6:45 PM

#

Indeed

misty bolt May 31, 2019, 6:47 PM

#

how will this affect locks and wars

#

dont they have some threat problems already

lavish marlin May 31, 2019, 6:53 PM

#

I doubt it will play a big role in the start, as both of those classes need gear to do some serious dmg/threat, and you should be funneling gear into the tanks first anyway.

Later on it will be a problem, most bwl bosses arent tauntable and the drakonids there can get shadow vulnerability, taking extra dmg from shadow dmg. That's when the warlocks and warriors will be having threat issues, in my opinion at least.

#

AQ has no threat sensitive fights if I'm not mistaken.

ebon harbor May 31, 2019, 10:21 PM

#

As someone that’s going to roll a warrior in classic. Should I stick to fury or go straight tank at 60?

#

Idk what to start farming... BIS tank/fury 😭

umbral valley May 31, 2019, 11:06 PM

#

Can anyone explain how crit works? I see I have a 13.9% crit, but it it says my crit rating is 5 and that I have a .49% chance to crit?

tender estuary May 31, 2019, 11:08 PM

#

because the base crit chance isn't 0%?

#

and the .49% is what you get from your gear?

lusty robin May 31, 2019, 11:19 PM

#

@distant saffron idk what guide you're referencing, but threat is a numerical multiplier - things that don't do damage or healing don't cause threat unless they have also have a specific aggro mechanic (like taunt and a few other spells)

distant saffron May 31, 2019, 11:20 PM

#

I'm referring to Kencos threat guide - was written shortly before TBC released

#

In it, he notes BS and DS as having threat values

lusty robin May 31, 2019, 11:21 PM

#

demo shout applies a debuff which, in the absence of any other threat can cause aggro, but it doesn't actually have any "threat value" (number)

#

Battle Shout as far as I'm aware (and it's been awhile! lol) is completely ignored

distant saffron May 31, 2019, 11:21 PM

#

https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Kenco's_research_on_threat

WoWWiki

Kenco%27s_research_on_threat

This is a copy-paste of the EU repost of Kenco's (Unity ) original post from the official forums from January 2006 with his research on Aggro/Threat levels called "Some Threat Values and...

#

Note that debuffs associated with abilities are not connected to the threat they generate. Demoralizing shout generates the same amount of threat whether the debuff is on or not. Sunder armor generates the same threat after 5 debuffs are on as when there are 0.

lusty robin May 31, 2019, 11:22 PM

#

Doesn't give a lot of detail, but I would not be surprised if he's just conflating hostile action threat (which doesn't have an actual value)

#

I guess he kind of hits on that with pulling

#

it's also possible something changed in one patch or another (though I doubt it in this case)

uneven aspen Jun 1, 2019, 12:08 AM

#

Demo shout definitely used to cause threat
I used it all the time for the adds on the panther boss in ZG

#

It wasn't a lot, but it was one of the better AoE threat generators you had

main hemlock Jun 1, 2019, 7:29 AM

#

yep, battle shout I dont remember any tanks using for threat

copper helm Jun 1, 2019, 7:55 AM

#

I can also attest to Demo shout spamming in ZG for threat quite a bit before people were allowed to AoE the panthers in ZG back in 2005

crimson jay Jun 1, 2019, 10:30 AM

#

Battle/Demo Shout should be easy to test on Beta with 2 Warriors. let them pool rage on a mob. Then body pull another, Warrior 1 shout and then let Warrior 2 shout more than once and see if he gets aggro or not

gray oasis Jun 1, 2019, 6:59 PM

#

Quick question. Is there a way to reduce the chance for your taunts to be resisted? I only really started playing during Cata so I'm not used to having my taunts resisted🤔

past tide Jun 1, 2019, 8:27 PM

#

There is a trinket from fishing boss in ZG

main hemlock Jun 2, 2019, 9:12 AM

#

Spell hit gear

crimson jay Jun 2, 2019, 12:10 PM

#

t3 set bonus

copper helm Jun 2, 2019, 1:08 PM

#

@gray oasis If a Taunt resists, you can also utilize Mocking Blow too. I know a lot of Tanks don't use it because it's an out of Defensive Stance ability, forget about it or don't bother cause it's not keybound

main hemlock Jun 2, 2019, 7:21 PM

#

thats just being bad

copper helm Jun 3, 2019, 1:36 AM

#

yup, which I'm willing to bet happens in a lot of guilds

dreamy ice Jun 3, 2019, 7:51 AM

#

mocking blow often gets dodged or parried as well

#

also re demo/battle shout: BS definitely used to cause threat

#

buffing an ally (any buff) causes a certain amount, same goes for all classes

#

warriors used it to tank the magic duder on twin emps

#

and if a priest/mage/druid mass buffed on the pull they could pull aggro

#

among other examples

cunning lotus Jun 3, 2019, 10:28 AM

#

How Did you acquire pvp gear back in vanilla ? Is it possible to get close to bis without pveing?

tender estuary Jun 3, 2019, 10:34 AM

#

When you do battlegrounds you get these "mark of honor" items, you trade these in for gear, but all the decent gear requires you to have pretty high rank iirc

distant saffron Jun 3, 2019, 10:36 AM

#

Wat

#

thats not what marks of honour are for....

tender estuary Jun 3, 2019, 10:37 AM

#

they weren't?

jade fog Jun 3, 2019, 10:40 AM

#

iirc mark of honors were traded for honor at beginning

dreamy ice Jun 3, 2019, 10:40 AM

#

you gained pvp ranks by obtaining honour

#

the tokens were turned in for extra honour

#

3 for winning, 1 for participating

#

once you had the right rank you could just buy the item

#

for gold

jade fog Jun 3, 2019, 10:40 AM

#

^basically that

#

Couldnt you also trade marks of honor for gold?

cunning lotus Jun 3, 2019, 10:41 AM

#

Back Then it was just a grind eight

dreamy ice Jun 3, 2019, 10:41 AM

#

there was also a weekly quest that needed each type of honor token

#

or daily idr

cunning lotus Jun 3, 2019, 10:41 AM

#

Skill hadnt that much value i guess

distant saffron Jun 3, 2019, 10:41 AM

#

It also awarded gold, raz

jade fog Jun 3, 2019, 10:41 AM

#

👏

distant saffron Jun 3, 2019, 10:41 AM

#

@dreamy ice it could be completed multiple times

tender estuary Jun 3, 2019, 10:41 AM

#

i just remember grinding alot of marks of honor from the different battlegrounds

dreamy ice Jun 3, 2019, 10:41 AM

#

yeah i remember now

cunning lotus Jun 3, 2019, 10:42 AM

#

Wasnt high waelord like 12h grind each day

distant saffron Jun 3, 2019, 10:42 AM

#

More

#

But depends on the server/pool, etc

#

with the 1.12 breakpoints, it could be less

#

or more

cunning lotus Jun 3, 2019, 10:43 AM

#

Fuck that tho It's insane

dreamy ice Jun 3, 2019, 10:44 AM

#

you progressed based on your rank among all players each week

#

i can't see that it would be much quicker in classic, at least at the start

#

probably will be a bit easier later

distant saffron Jun 3, 2019, 10:45 AM

#

Nah the start will be quicker than it was in 1.4

#

Bigger high brackets = more people getting better ranks in the first few momonths

copper helm Jun 3, 2019, 10:45 AM

#

333 players in pool of rankings = 1 r14 each week

distant saffron Jun 3, 2019, 10:46 AM

#

333 = 1 br1 spot

#

important distinction

copper helm Jun 3, 2019, 10:46 AM

#

yes that

cunning lotus Jun 3, 2019, 10:49 AM

#

So it was weekly ? Basiclly It's possible to grind 20h/D in 1 week get it Then never pvp again ?

#

Assuming i have all the gold etc

distant saffron Jun 3, 2019, 10:50 AM

#

No

copper helm Jun 3, 2019, 10:50 AM

#

negative, since bracket 1 honor gains has a maximum limit you'll get each week

distant saffron Jun 3, 2019, 10:50 AM

#

You need to get a point called RP

#

RP is decided by the weekly standing, which is decided by Honour

cunning lotus Jun 3, 2019, 10:50 AM

#

Ok unlucky

distant saffron Jun 3, 2019, 10:51 AM

#

Your RP decays each week

#

If you get BR1 every week, and full RP from it

#

You can go from 0-14 in 12 weeks

#

But that will never realistically happen

cunning lotus Jun 3, 2019, 10:52 AM

#

Idd Okok

#

Is it faction related? Or ally and horde

distant saffron Jun 3, 2019, 10:53 AM

#

Standings are per server, per faction

cunning lotus Jun 3, 2019, 10:54 AM

#

Ok ty

cunning lotus Jun 3, 2019, 12:05 PM

#

Will bgs be available from start ? Or is that in a later patch ?

distant saffron Jun 3, 2019, 12:06 PM

#

p3

cunning lotus Jun 3, 2019, 12:27 PM

#

Thats actually weird

#

So no wsg or anything for like a half year ?

distant saffron Jun 3, 2019, 12:29 PM

#

nope

#

I hope you like ganking in p2

dreamy ice Jun 3, 2019, 12:29 PM

#

hillsbrad derby

#

pog

cunning lotus Jun 3, 2019, 12:30 PM

#

Wow Thats weird

#

But Okok... fuck that was gonna be half the experience to do bgs again

#

Idk Why they choose that direction

#

Basiclly wont be anything pvp related to do at 60

dreamy ice Jun 3, 2019, 12:34 PM

#

did you play early vanilla?

#

there was a lot of pvp before bgs opened

main hemlock Jun 3, 2019, 12:44 PM

#

yeah there will be a lot of wpvp

cunning lotus Jun 3, 2019, 12:47 PM

#

What does that give u tho? Gearwise etc or just for fun

#

Can u progress towards something with the hks u earn?

vast burrow Jun 3, 2019, 1:22 PM

#

The enjoyment of clapping losers

copper helm Jun 3, 2019, 1:42 PM

#

@cunning lotus phase 2 you'll be able to grind HKs for rankings

#

phase 1 is purely PvE driven. level alts, professions, grind for pre-bis PvP gear for phase 2

#

the best advantage you can get pre-phase 2 is to establish yourself in a guild as a dedicated PvP player, this way you'll have a shot at getting Bonereaver's Edge or Spinal Reaper from Rags. you'll have a huge advantage going into the start of phase 2 for early rankings

#

idealy you'd want BRE over Spinal since we're getting the 1.12 version of it, but just depends how long you want to wait for a weapon

main hemlock Jun 3, 2019, 2:34 PM

#

yeah or get unlucky and see none of those drop

#

BRE, 0 drops in all of vanilla over a year of MC clears

#

I'd say you're very lucky to get either

past tide Jun 3, 2019, 2:47 PM

#

Imagine doing something in the game just because is fun

carmine ingot Jun 3, 2019, 3:03 PM

#

remember if you played Vanilla, dont go to crazy on people....

📎 763605.jpg

frosty haven Jun 3, 2019, 3:41 PM

#

zappy boi :peepolove:

copper helm Jun 3, 2019, 3:59 PM

#

If no Rags weapon drops, Ashkandi on 1st Nef kill 😏

past tide Jun 3, 2019, 4:09 PM

#

Hunt prio

fresh tendon Jun 3, 2019, 4:11 PM

#

I’m starting to get hella hype for vanilla tbh

frosty haven Jun 3, 2019, 4:13 PM

#

i played in the first stress test, made a tauren druid and ran to durotar to play with the orcs where my friend started
we got to level 3 trying to collect scorpid stingers or some shit, took us forever
great time XD

fresh tendon Jun 3, 2019, 4:13 PM

#

Been playing a ton of ESO lately and it just captures that feeling that I haven’t had since I started playing WoW where it’s a journey and I’m just excited to play and continue questing and slowly progressing towards a goal instead of being able to do everything in the game in a week

#

I was one of those “I think I’ll play it and it’ll be interesting to try but I don’t think it’ll have much staying power” people but I’ve changed my mind at this point

main hemlock Jun 3, 2019, 5:47 PM

#

yeah classic is good like you're not forced to grind m+ or whatever for gear to stay competitive

frosty haven Jun 3, 2019, 5:50 PM

#

yeah instead your just forced to grind DM to stay competitive :4head:

misty bolt Jun 3, 2019, 5:53 PM

#

m+ isnt the problem

#

grinding islands and other worthless garbage is

frosty haven Jun 3, 2019, 5:55 PM

#

i've never grinded islands

#

i just dont participate in content that is retarded

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

fresh tendon Jun 3, 2019, 5:59 PM

#

@frosty haven don’t you mean grind them guild events for that dkp?

frosty haven Jun 3, 2019, 6:01 PM

#

😎 just be a chad main tank and get all the loot for free

fresh tendon Jun 3, 2019, 6:02 PM

#

Truuuueeee

#

Ngl I actually kinda miss dkp

past tide Jun 3, 2019, 6:29 PM

#

I don't

#

Loot Council all the way

main hemlock Jun 3, 2019, 7:00 PM

#

just be the best dps and get free epics

misty bolt Jun 3, 2019, 7:02 PM

#

10 dps warriors fighting over BRE

#

will be fun

dapper mural Jun 3, 2019, 7:04 PM

#

Just be the GM.

#

😇

main hemlock Jun 3, 2019, 7:05 PM

#

just be the class leader xd

#

that was a thing in vanilla lmao

dapper mural Jun 3, 2019, 7:05 PM

#

Yeah that's probably better

main hemlock Jun 3, 2019, 7:05 PM

#

you show them how its done

past tide Jun 3, 2019, 7:16 PM

#

The life of a Fury warrior: Join a guild, get mad when other guy in said guild who is being a member for months gets whatever sword, hop to another guild in the next reset. Get mighty mad when...

carmine ingot Jun 3, 2019, 7:42 PM

#

the guild I GM'ed in vanilla was senoirty based. if you got there first you more than likely had first dibbs

frosty haven Jun 3, 2019, 7:43 PM

#

cant wait to give old geriatric guild mom tfury even tho she does like a third of normal dps

carmine ingot Jun 3, 2019, 7:43 PM

#

unless it involved Thunderfury then main tank got that and everyone else was screwed

main hemlock Jun 3, 2019, 10:05 PM

#

yep

#

first one at least

#

my better vanilla guild both tanks had it

#

lucky bois

vapid solar Jun 4, 2019, 2:51 AM

#

do we know how many servers there will be for classic? Id love it if I could coordinate with my friends on which server/guild to join

nova knoll Jun 4, 2019, 2:58 AM

#

might know on aug13th

gleaming karma Jun 4, 2019, 3:18 AM

#

They said you'll be able to reserve names ahead of time.

nova knoll Jun 4, 2019, 3:20 AM

#

"If you’re eager to claim your character name in WoW Classic, take note: we’ll be opening character creation on Tuesday, August 13.* Players with an active subscription or game time on their account will be able to create up to three characters per World of Warcraft account. We’ll have more information on realm names closer to launch, but rest assured—you’ll have plenty of time to figure out your plans for realm domination!

To align with other regions, the Americas character creation will occur slightly ahead of August 13."

dreamy ice Jun 4, 2019, 5:41 AM

#

deswind

crimson jay Jun 4, 2019, 9:57 AM

#

I was waiting for this.

twin oar Jun 4, 2019, 1:56 PM

#

Nice

#

What names are you guys gonna reserve?

#

Just kidding lol

jade fog Jun 4, 2019, 1:57 PM

#

Illidan, broxigar, Arthas, thrall

#

Full meme

twin oar Jun 4, 2019, 1:57 PM

#

iilliiddaann

#

can you even reserve these names @jade fog

jade fog Jun 4, 2019, 2:01 PM

#

I mean, why would you not be able to

#

They are just names 🤷 if nobody picks them before you it should work

modern garden Jun 4, 2019, 2:03 PM

#

Wasn't there a rule against using the names of lore characters back then

twin oar Jun 4, 2019, 2:04 PM

#

You can't use name of lore characters anymore

#

says taken or maybe someone has actually taken it

jade fog Jun 4, 2019, 2:07 PM

#

Im pretty sure even these days i see poeple running with legit spelled lore names

#

Dunno about past

#

Just look at wcl

#

Maybe they changed the rules

#

And maybe they wont change them for classic 🤷

#

But i dont care about those names

#

Imma be myself

twin oar Jun 4, 2019, 2:11 PM

#

Yeah me neither

dapper crow Jun 4, 2019, 6:11 PM

#

Thinking about going a warrior protection this time around in classic, something that has just been on my mind tough:
Wont it be really harsh for someone to make a prot warrior as first class? Since from what i know they are slow gold farmers, run sells wont be a thing in the beggining i think and repairs are high... any advice you guys have in order to make moderate amount of gold atleAst as a prot?

copper helm Jun 4, 2019, 6:13 PM

#

make an alt for professions that can craft CDs and sell those

#

Tailoring + LW if you don't want a daily CD to worry about, so those are 3 and 4 day CDs

#

unlike Alchemy where the transmutes are a 1 day CD

frosty haven Jun 4, 2019, 6:19 PM

#

yeah you will save yourself a lot of headache by just levelling a mage or hunter that can farm much easier

past tide Jun 4, 2019, 6:20 PM

#

Early on might be harder than other classes but you should get into a guild that helps its tanks

copper helm Jun 4, 2019, 6:21 PM

#

also, if you're a main tank or a secondary tank, typically most guilds will provide the expensive consumables for you (the flasks) so that'll cut down on costs usually

past tide Jun 4, 2019, 6:21 PM

#

Besides that as a tank you have plenty of ways to farm gold that are fairly reliable from the get go. That being orb farming for example

#

Later on you get DM:E as a miner which mind you will be I'd assume more profitable in retail that what we are used to in PServers (no dynamic respawn = higher arcane crystals value)

#

Furthermore down the line you can even organize Onyxia pugs and get something from the gbid for certain drops.

copper helm Jun 4, 2019, 6:24 PM

#

lol yeah, gotta cycle that chinese gold somehow 😄

past tide Jun 4, 2019, 6:24 PM

#

Hell I've even got paid for being a tank in AV trains for several hours

#

Long history short, as a tank you have to know some extra tricks to earn that shiny shekels, but is still doable.

#

Rule of thumb as a tank is being social and known by

dapper crow Jun 4, 2019, 6:36 PM

#

Thanks you guys for the fast replies! Will keep all of them in mind

main hemlock Jun 4, 2019, 6:49 PM

#

sell your tanking services , ezgold

dapper mural Jun 4, 2019, 7:56 PM

#

I think I'm gonna go priest since most of my guild called dibs on the fun classes

worldly dust Jun 4, 2019, 9:47 PM

#

fury defiance is the way to go as tank. also best way to make gold as warr is either herbing or dungeons with a healer

fresh tendon Jun 4, 2019, 10:04 PM

#

I’m torn

#

Between warrior, hunter and Paladin

#

I wanna play Paladin because I miss the old school pally and it was my first character when I started playing in TBC

#

But I’ve grown to love the warrior and I also really miss the old hunter when you had to carry ammo and used mana

#

And actually had melee weapons

nova knoll Jun 5, 2019, 5:28 AM

#

never pay for your own tanking repairs

lament musk Jun 5, 2019, 7:05 AM

#

Make a raiding guild, use dkp system, tell people if they donate 1g they get 1dkp, use guild gold for repairs and other stuff :)

#

Actually what I look forward to is gdkp runs. Made a lot of gold in wotlk doing that

jade fog Jun 5, 2019, 7:47 AM

#

Gdkp runs deswind

#

Play in tbc, do Gruul every week, reserve DST, sell it to highest bidder

#

👏

main hemlock Jun 5, 2019, 8:40 AM

#

Do a gruul pug 2. Win DST by roll 3. profit xxdd

jade fog Jun 5, 2019, 8:50 AM

#

Do a gruul pug 2. Win DST by roll 3. Dont replace it till tbc is over

main hemlock Jun 5, 2019, 10:23 AM

#

big true

#

I used it with shard

#

dirty rouge back then

urban mica Jun 6, 2019, 9:23 AM

#

Im a bit scared to roll a warrior in vanilla 😃 im a pvper , solo mostly runnin bgs ....

lean agate Jun 6, 2019, 10:23 AM

#

Hello, anyone knows if it's possible to slam between white attack without resetting attack timer on classic beta server ? i tried at lvl 30 with the WW axe but it seems it reset the swing timer..

distant saffron Jun 6, 2019, 10:25 AM

#

Slam resets swing timer in classic, can't prevent it

lean agate Jun 6, 2019, 10:25 AM

#

but it's a bug no ?

distant saffron Jun 6, 2019, 10:25 AM

#

no?

#

Why would it be?

#

extra attacks reset swing timer

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Windfury, etc

lean agate Jun 6, 2019, 10:26 AM

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if i remember right back in the day you could use slam between white attacks

distant saffron Jun 6, 2019, 10:27 AM

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Slam has always been like tha

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its why you cast slam ASAP after a swing

lean agate Jun 6, 2019, 10:27 AM

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alright, indeed that's how it is on beta right now

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i work on weakauras port for classic, i want to make the swing timer accurate for warriors

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retail version was also reducing swing timer after a parry, i'm not sure if the maths changed or not since vanilla

distant saffron Jun 6, 2019, 10:31 AM

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Parry haste is a thing

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We're testing to figure out by how much its affected atm

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it seems to be variable

lean agate Jun 6, 2019, 10:31 AM

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right now it's calculated like that after a parry on weakauras swing trigger
if (timeLeft > 0.6 * swingDurationMain) then .... timeLeft - 0.4 * swingDurationMain
if (timeLeft > 0.2 * swingDurationMain) then .... timeLeft - 0.2 * swingDurationMain

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if you find it's wrong i'd be interested to know about it

distant saffron Jun 6, 2019, 10:35 AM

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best way to check anything

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is to follow the github here

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https://github.com/magey/classic-warrior/issues

GitHub

magey/classic-warrior

Contribute to magey/classic-warrior development by creating an account on GitHub.

lean agate Jun 6, 2019, 10:40 AM

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i didn't know about it, thanks

lean granite Jun 6, 2019, 4:10 PM

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Is there a cast bar addon?

tender estuary Jun 6, 2019, 5:09 PM

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ive seen streamers using cast bar addons, so they do exist

elder kindle Jun 6, 2019, 5:30 PM

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in regards to the slam thing, if you maxed out improved slam you could hit it RIGHT as your melee attack was about to go off, and it would not reset your swing timer

main hemlock Jun 6, 2019, 5:56 PM

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pretty sure it reset but there isnt much to reset if you landed it like 0.1 after AA

worldly dust Jun 6, 2019, 8:10 PM

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It would not if you cast it while the auto animation, but that only works with tbc imp slam that reduces its cast time to 0.5 seconds. Vanilla has 1sec cast on slam with imp slam

uneven aspen Jun 6, 2019, 10:06 PM

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wait, Bloodfury is scaling with Strength?
That sounds like abug

distant saffron Jun 6, 2019, 10:06 PM

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Its not

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Its supposed to scale like that

uneven aspen Jun 6, 2019, 10:07 PM

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doesn't the tooltip say "base"?

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I thought it was changed in TBC

distant saffron Jun 6, 2019, 10:07 PM

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Yes

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and strength increases your BASE ap

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It was changed in TBC to be a flat number

uneven aspen Jun 6, 2019, 10:07 PM

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so does this mean humans are rip

frosty haven Jun 6, 2019, 10:08 PM

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not necessarily, you dont have paladins on horde

distant saffron Jun 6, 2019, 10:08 PM

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DPS isn't about how good you are

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its about how good your guild is

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Get in a top guild, and your DPS will skyrocket

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Shorter kill times are the ONLY thing that get you logs in vanilla

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:feels

frosty haven Jun 6, 2019, 10:08 PM

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yeah that too, does the boss die fast enough that my buffs last a large portion of the fight

uneven aspen Jun 6, 2019, 10:09 PM

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yeah
I feel like the threat difference is going to be the biggest difference in DPS from private servers -> classic

distant saffron Jun 6, 2019, 10:09 PM

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Yeah, but stuff is hitting like a pansy

uneven aspen Jun 6, 2019, 10:09 PM

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because tanks having 19% avoidance they just can't get rid of now is massive

distant saffron Jun 6, 2019, 10:09 PM

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So can wear more threat gear/DW earlier

uneven aspen Jun 6, 2019, 10:10 PM

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In my experience from tanking since Vanilla, unpredictable hits (regardless of actual damage) are far more dangerous than large, predictable hits

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like
I always remember tanking the 4th boss in Mt. Hyjal that chunked for 80% of my HP per swing that had no parry haste
was trivial for the healers compared to Morogrim Tidewalker, who had parry haste and hit for about 50% of my total health

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I had died over 20 times to Morogrim tidewalker from tank damage vs. 0 to Azgalon (Azgalor)

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his name was something like that

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but even still, being able to DW more doesn't actually increase your threat if your guild is great anyway
weapon skill just straight up doesn't seem to reduce parry/dodge in Classic

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having a 19% chance to just do 0 threat is pretty big

distant saffron Jun 6, 2019, 10:13 PM

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being able to DW absolutely does increase your threat

uneven aspen Jun 6, 2019, 10:13 PM

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yes it does, that's not what I'm saying

distant saffron Jun 6, 2019, 10:13 PM

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You just adhere to the meta I predicted

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which is slow OH, fast MH

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cause no enrage on demand = need a disparity for not eating stacks

uneven aspen Jun 6, 2019, 10:14 PM

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what I mean is that if you're already DWing in Private servers
vs. DWing in Classic

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you are doing less threat

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I worded it badly originally

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tanks across the board will be doing a lot less threat vs. the same Pserver setup

distant saffron Jun 6, 2019, 10:16 PM

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yup, with same gear for sure

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But if bosses hit as hard on the scaling as these dungeons atm

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you can literally just not bother with defensive gear

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its gonna be so fun

uneven aspen Jun 6, 2019, 10:18 PM

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also, I see from this link that expose armor does not stack with sunder?

distant saffron Jun 6, 2019, 10:18 PM

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Yup

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Its blizzlike to not do that

uneven aspen Jun 6, 2019, 10:18 PM

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yeah, because I don't remember it being the case in Vanilla

distant saffron Jun 6, 2019, 10:19 PM

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Was a nostcore bug because nostcore is awful

uneven aspen Jun 6, 2019, 10:19 PM

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I don't remember all our rogues speccing into it

distant saffron Jun 6, 2019, 10:19 PM

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tbf to nost

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They buffed boss armor by 900-1700

uneven aspen Jun 6, 2019, 10:19 PM

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so bosses will always have 250 more armor

distant saffron Jun 6, 2019, 10:19 PM

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so I'll give them that

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no

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Bosses will have 0 armor on classic

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after full debuffs

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3731 is boss armor

uneven aspen Jun 6, 2019, 10:19 PM

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didn't they say it varied, though

distant saffron Jun 6, 2019, 10:20 PM

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Yup

uneven aspen Jun 6, 2019, 10:20 PM

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in significant cases, because I remember C'thun had extremely high armor

distant saffron Jun 6, 2019, 10:20 PM

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theres 3 classes of mob

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Mage, Paladin, Warrior

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mages have about 3k

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paladins 3.5

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Warriors 3.7

uneven aspen Jun 6, 2019, 10:20 PM

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oh yeah
that's what that little icon meant in unit frames lmao

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I could never figure that out

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I was like
why is this guy casting lightning bolt a paladin

distant saffron Jun 6, 2019, 10:21 PM

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you can get mob armor to 0 with Sunder/Faerie Fire/CoR/Anni

uneven aspen Jun 6, 2019, 10:28 PM

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I think parry haste may have a bigger impact on fury DW tanking when you get to AQ/Naxx
and bosses start to hit harder/healing becomes more strenuous

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also when 1.12 talents get closer to the talents that were available at the time

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My intuition tells me that MC/BWL will probably be easier than Private servers and AQ/Naxx will be harder

open oak Jun 6, 2019, 10:56 PM

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@lusty robin late to this and may have missed something but in patch 1.12 Battle Shout still generated threat per person buffed and was a tactic for Nefarian prior to that as it buffed pets in phase 1 Warrior held threat on all the adds by spamming it while grouped with 4 hunters and raid standing behind throne using aoe spells.

lusty robin Jun 6, 2019, 11:06 PM

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Pretty sure I never went back to Nefarian after 1.12, so I'll take your word for it

steel flare Jun 7, 2019, 4:32 PM

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If you have edgemasters (as non orc/human) what is the required hit rating vs boss?

empty zephyr Jun 7, 2019, 5:02 PM

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according to blizz,if u have at least 5+ wpn skill,you need 8%hit

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if not ,9%

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for special attacks

steel flare Jun 7, 2019, 6:15 PM

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<3

nova knoll Jun 7, 2019, 10:49 PM

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these 2 months are going by too slow

wanton bison Jun 7, 2019, 10:55 PM

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Edgemaster's Handguards was extremely op before naxx due to the +7 weapon skills

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I got it for 33g in the AH after I found the thread in the EJ forums, I think it nullified glancing blows too

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not sure if it was +7 skill back then after this comment now, it was just incredible w/e it did

📎 unknown.png

worldly dust Jun 7, 2019, 11:05 PM

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wait till ppl notice that dft is actually a tank trinket

dreamy ice Jun 8, 2019, 2:31 AM

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it wouldn't have nullified them since bosses were still 3 levels higher

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not on its own, anyway

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and it was definitely 7

distant saffron Jun 8, 2019, 2:32 AM

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There is no way to nulify glancing blows

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Weapon skill reduces the penalty from 35% at 300 to 5% at 308

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You can't reduce the chhance

dreamy ice Jun 8, 2019, 2:33 AM

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it's calculated based on the difference between the weapon skill and defense iirc

distant saffron Jun 8, 2019, 2:33 AM

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The penalty is, yes

dreamy ice Jun 8, 2019, 2:33 AM

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i thought you could push them off the hit table the same way as you can push misses off if your hit and crit etc are high enough

distant saffron Jun 8, 2019, 2:33 AM

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No

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The chance is always there

dreamy ice Jun 8, 2019, 2:35 AM

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shrug

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even as an orc or human it would only be 312 anyway

past tide Jun 8, 2019, 9:53 AM

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You can reduce the damage loss from them, but not remove them all together

paper wave Jun 8, 2019, 11:36 PM

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Hi guys! I was listening to Countdown to Classic today and they referenced that armor values would be lower in Classic leading to higher Physical DPS but I can’t find a blue post or anything to confirm that. Did this come from somewhere else and I just can find it?

distant saffron Jun 8, 2019, 11:37 PM

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TLDR nost and nostcore servers used the TBC values - 4691 - 5491 armor for bosses

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However, the max we can record from vanilla was 3737

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thats between 900 and 1700 less armor on bosses

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As warriors scale exponentially, that means that less armor = a fuck ton more damage

paper wave Jun 8, 2019, 11:38 PM

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Got it. That’s good to know at least. Thanks Babyhoof.

main hemlock Jun 9, 2019, 2:05 PM

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I do remember a fury do 1200 dps on patchwerk, but that was 2006 and people weren't as good

cunning tartan Jun 9, 2019, 5:43 PM

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hi all

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100% classic !

past tide Jun 9, 2019, 6:19 PM

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sal

onyx jackal Jun 9, 2019, 9:12 PM

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this wait is taking too damn long lol

dreamy ice Jun 10, 2019, 11:31 AM

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fury could do a lot more than 1200 on patchwerk

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the highest i saw was about 1450 but it could go higher

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the trouble was it was unusual to have a raid with 40 people in vanilla, all of whom were actually playing at a high level

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you only needed around half that to do the instance properly

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if the other 20 could stay alive and not wipe the raid, that was about all they needed to do

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these days with a committed raid you could have a turbo quick patchwerk kill with people doing well over 2k imo

main hemlock Jun 10, 2019, 12:04 PM

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yea just stack furys xd

dreamy ice Jun 10, 2019, 12:12 PM

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fire mages and rogues are pretty good too

main hemlock Jun 10, 2019, 12:21 PM

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yeah for sure, wont have 15 geared furys anyway

dreamy ice Jun 10, 2019, 12:24 PM

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zg / ony buff with flask and all the elixirs

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plus a raid full of people chosen for high dps

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could have a <3min patchwerk kill

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huge dps

frosty haven Jun 10, 2019, 10:14 PM

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the best way to get insane dps is by having insane kill times
and there were plenty of fights that werent intended to die within a couple minutes or less

distant saffron Jun 10, 2019, 10:20 PM

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Your place on rankings is almost entirely decided by kill times

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I had no parses of note - joined one of the best guilds, and instantly had a top 10 server run

frosty haven Jun 10, 2019, 10:34 PM

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modern parses are a bit more controlled, as classes tend to be much closer in power level, and burst isnt as varied. ie reck being on a 30 min CD is nutty and warrior isnt necessarily balanced around it

dusk ice Jun 11, 2019, 12:29 PM

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just a quick FYI regarding weapon skills and glancing blows - even after hitting the 'glancing blow damage reduction cap' its still very valuable due to giving both hit and crit and reduced chance at being blocked/dodged/parried

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Q u o t e:
Really? Because going by what Crezax posted I still see no reason to prefer weaponskill over hit rating and attack power.

Q u o t e:
Let's say you increase your weapon skill by 4.

Against a mob 3 levels higher than you, you get: 0.8% lower chance to miss, 0,4% lower chance to get dodged, 2,4% to be parried, and a 0,8% higher chance to crit. That means a 4,8% net increase.

IIRC, all ratings cost the same in the item budget. And according to wowwiki:
3.9 weapon skill rating gives you 1 weapon skill.
22.1 crit rating gives you 1% crit.

If we instead use the item budget to increase crit rating, 4 weapon skill would be equal to (3.9*4)/22 = 0.71% crit.
So the weapon skill gives more crit% then crit rating, without even taking dodge/parry/miss into account.

empty zephyr Jun 11, 2019, 1:06 PM

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there is no rating in classic,either 20agi=1% crit or 1% crit directly from item

modern garden Jun 11, 2019, 3:15 PM

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does agility round

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or is 10 agility 0.5%

distant saffron Jun 11, 2019, 7:58 PM

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0.5

distant saffron Jun 11, 2019, 8:40 PM

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@dusk ice which wowwiki article are you quoting btw?

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Because unless its by Beaza

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I wouldnt trust it

fringe furnace Jun 11, 2019, 9:58 PM

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Looking forward to have those tasty hit or crit threads reappear 😉

copper helm Jun 11, 2019, 10:21 PM

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lemme get dat classic simcraft

hollow reef Jun 11, 2019, 11:55 PM

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having a good vanilla guild and then going back to the whole 20 good players, 20 dead weight was brutal

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I couldnt ever raid Molten Core or any of that old content again

distant saffron Jun 11, 2019, 11:55 PM

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Dead weight players are the worst

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Furies that deal less DPS than the tank :feelsbadman:

exotic frigate Jun 12, 2019, 2:52 AM

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Yeah I'm telling myself in my head: "hey people have raided mythic, getting a big group to do MC should be easy"

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In reality it's going to be 15 good players, 10 decent

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And the rest garbo

sudden junco Jun 12, 2019, 2:59 AM

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I never did mythics later on, but the vanilla fights were might simpler for the most part. The gating was more logistical and (resist) gear related.

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And lack of knowledge about how the game worked.

dusk ice Jun 12, 2019, 3:18 AM

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@distant saffron was from a blue post way back

distant saffron Jun 12, 2019, 3:20 AM

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Well, from our current testing, you cant even come close to reducing parry by that much

dusk ice Jun 12, 2019, 3:20 AM

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@empty zephyr i understand that rating were introduced in tbc - but the math remained the same - instead of a flat +1 skill or +1% hit/crit - they introduced the rating system to reflect how classic worked

distant saffron Jun 12, 2019, 3:20 AM

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Seeing as Beaza has been correct on melee mechanics so far, and he's 99% an old blizzard employee, I'll trust him

dusk ice Jun 12, 2019, 3:28 AM

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this is exactly how it worked in classic to my memory, and the exact same in reverse for weapon skill > mob defense

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If a mob's weapon skill (its level * 5) is EQUAL TO your defense, and you have no gear or talents that increase any of your defensive Ratings:

Its chance to miss you is 5%.
Its chance to score a critical strike against you is 5%.
Your chance to block the attack is 5%.
Your chance to parry the attack is 5%.
Your chance to dodge the attack depends on your Agility.

For each point that the mob's weapon skill (its level * 5) exceeds your defense, it gains the following:

Its chance to miss decreases by 0.04%.
Its chance to score a critical strike increases by 0.04%.
Your chance to block the attack decreases by 0.04%.
Your chance to parry the attack decreases by 0.04%.
Your chance to dodge the attack decreases by 0.04%.

For each point that the mob's weapon skill (its level * 5) is less than your defense:

Its chance to miss decreases by 0.04%.
Its chance to score a critical strike increases by 0.04%.
Your chance to block the attack decreases by 0.04%.
Your chance to parry the attack decreases by 0.04%.
Your chance to dodge the attack decreases by 0.04%.

distant saffron Jun 12, 2019, 3:30 AM

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The reverse is not the same

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If it were, hit cap would be 5.6

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https://github.com/magey/classic-warrior/projects/1

GitHub

magey/classic-warrior

Contribute to magey/classic-warrior development by creating an account on GitHub.

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Go read this

fringe furnace Jun 12, 2019, 7:08 AM

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quite sure it was @distant saffron

bright karma Jun 12, 2019, 9:20 AM

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it never was

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people didn't know if it's 8% or 9% back in the day, so they geared for 9% to be sure

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but now we know because blizzard told us

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https://github.com/magey/classic-warrior/wiki/Attack-table

fringe furnace Jun 12, 2019, 9:52 AM

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hm maybe i should have written quite sure the reverse was the same

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i did not mean hte 5.6 hitcap is right

karmic cloud Jun 13, 2019, 8:26 AM

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I remember 5 was hitcap for yellow damage to an equal level player

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It was 8 or 9 for raids if I recall

cunning tartan Jun 13, 2019, 8:38 AM

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hey all

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😃

distant saffron Jun 13, 2019, 8:41 AM

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Not you again

modern garden Jun 13, 2019, 3:06 PM

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who dat

steel lantern Jun 13, 2019, 3:08 PM

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8% for a single weapon iirc in raids

bright karma Jun 13, 2019, 3:10 PM

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9%