ur skillcap button
#vanilla-discussion
plain jungle
frosty haven
such skill hitting HS when above 60 rage
plain jungle
when you truly have mastered your warrior
unborn sable
Its not even a CD rage dump, literally let you dump rage as fast as your auto attacks! 1.3 speed dagger tank GOOOOOOOO
royal topaz
i don’t get
plain jungle
so are shadow priests good in classic?
main hemlock
they were known as face melters for a good reason
main hemlock
no fear break means ur ded
as undead they were easy like warlocks
usually you died to their dots after
shadow hound
Last wipe
I have the feeling he dies from kimbul dot
Does shieldblock work agains the dot?
scarlet umbra
shadow hound
Ups wrong channel xyd
royal topaz
anyone got a wa for tom
unborn sable
@plain jungle to give a logic behind the "no shadow priest" thing, in vanilla there was a debuff cap, even after it was increased twice, DoTs were generally a nono, because you needed room for debuffs that either made the bosses not kill the tanks (thunderclap, demo shout etc...) or made you hurt the boss more (sunder armor, curse of elements and such)
who knows what this classic version will bring, if the debuff cap will be removed and all the hunters can rejoice as they spew lacerates and serpent stings from every orifice
plain jungle
ok cuz i played hunter in TBC
unborn sable
It was originally I htink 8
plain jungle
and that would be annoying xD
unborn sable
increased to 16 at some point
in TBC it was I think 40
now I don't think there is a cap
or if there is its like 255
unborn sable
Warriors had 4 debuffs in vanilla 😄
erm mebbei 5
we only really used 3 though :p
Demo, Thunder (was a melee attack speed slow) and Sunder
plain jungle
ill be hoping on classic for sure
but warrior seems such a slog to lvl
wonder how many guilds maybe die
cuz half their roster went ot classic and didnt come back xD
unborn sable
Not man
not many
I mean, I'll be in both, you might see some folks stay with classic fulltime
but unless they "Progression" it
People will get bored eventually
and wander back to live.
A lot of people will give up while leveling
cause it is a slog
compared to now.
Felt like greased lightning compared to EQ back in 2004 though
mint basalt
hi peeps
unborn sable
👋
mint basalt
early and chilly....heading to kul tiras, lol
plain jungle
ok so what was the best leveling spec as a warrior?
keen gate
Classic doesn't have specs as such
main hemlock
any 2h spec or prot
woven torrent
No. Do not go prot for leveling
woven torrent
You will want to kill yourself
main hemlock
prob
woven torrent
I leveled as fury back in nilla
Cuz dw was rad
I was also a dumb kid
So not much has changes
steel lantern
Only go prot while leveling if you have a full group of friends leveling with you
woven torrent
But even then, dungeon spam isnt that fast
You will be decked out in blues for the entire time tho
And if itemization is of 1.12, youll get really good stuff
Lots of items got lots of spell power, a casters dream
unborn sable
Slam fury = #1 leveling spec
And yeah Prot had literally no way to deal damage while leveling, Shield slam is your level 40 talent, and doesn't do a whole lot (because its damage was increased by SBV)
You basically auto attacked, sundered armor and heroic striked stuff to death
or Rend
you could use rend in defensive stance (which dealt 10% less damage)
unborn sable
yeah, SS not scaling atall in Vanilla was less fun
unborn sable
Well, should've seen some of their concepts in beta ><
Combat tanking rogues
Melee priests
twin oar
imagine leveling 40 or so levels without an instant ability
steel lantern
By today's standards class design was fucked in vanilla
unborn sable
I mean they had these things "Tanks shouldn't deal damage, aggro should be generated by effects"
slender scarab
Tanks shouldnt deal damage, I agree
unborn sable
That was a throwback to EQ, where over half the tanks aggro was generated by effects like "anger" (proc on your weapon, hope RNGesus likes you)
steel lantern
Taunt should be able to miss or be resisted
slender scarab
Lol
unborn sable
yeah, THunderclap and tuant being on spell hit +++
slender scarab
dont??
unborn sable
that was amazing
slender scarab
Play M+ on Warrior and talk to me about damage
unborn sable
🤔 Prot warriors are one of the highest AE DPS
hey know what i"ma love about Vanilla
Thundercla
slender scarab
Reaping 
steel lantern
Gotta love when you needed to taunt the boss missed and wiped
twin oar
Yeah but that's only one tank
twin oar
and most bosses in Naxxramas
unborn sable
where until uh Luclin, you couldn't taunt mobs higher level than yourself
steel lantern
At least tank swapping wasnt much of a mech back then
steel lantern
Yeah
unborn sable
thus the famous 31/5/15
twin oar
8 tanks in Four Horsemen LUL
steel lantern
Most people couldn't do it at all
plain jungle
true
twin oar
Vanilla raids might be easy
unless they tune something
which I doubt they're gonna do with all the "no changes" crowd
plain jungle
idk if they are easy
unborn sable
Well if they leave attunemnts in
plain jungle
I know they will be a lot easier than they were back then
twin oar
Attunements are easy lol
plain jungle
u have all the info u need now
unborn sable
and leave the time restrictions on Ragnaros
twin oar
I have done attunements so many times that it became easy
unborn sable
getting BWL attuned wasn't easy back in vanilla, Drakasaith was some roughness
steel lantern
Vanilla raids were only really hard because everyone was garbage back then and organizing 40 wow players is borderline impossible
unborn sable
I mean, it was a scale down from 54 person raids in EQ 😛
twin oar
Yeah that's true
unborn sable
which is why most early vanilla raiders were EQ players
steel lantern
Yeah
twin oar
guilds kept falling apart because you needed like 40+ players for a raid
unborn sable
no XP penalty on death
twin oar
lol
unborn sable
You didn't LOSE YOUR GEAR
plain jungle
that would be pretty cool in wow
unborn sable
If your gear stayed on your body
and you had to make your way back, naked to try and pull it out from under a god?
it added that element of danger to it
plain jungle
osrs does this today
twin oar
is the shadowland thing canon?
where you die and ressurect
and go to your corpse to ressurect*
steel lantern
The fact that a player character is an immortal
woven torrent
Well, gor dhs it is
plain jungle
"adventures"
woven torrent
For
unborn sable
Azeroth brings us back
woven torrent
Everyone else never died
plain jungle
demon hunters have that yes
unborn sable
somethingsomething blahblah
plain jungle
every1 else just never died
in the illidan novel some guys get killed
and then ressed
in combat
woven torrent
In the tutorial even
plain jungle
so combat rezz is canon
unborn sable
Well
steel lantern
Lore wise your just near death not actually dead
unborn sable
^^
plain jungle
and there are entities that just straight up rezz u
woven torrent
Imagine not dying to cthun b4 nerf
plain jungle
like when jaina died
woven torrent
Adventurers r stronk
plain jungle
and got ressed by chi ji
unborn sable
whowat
plain jungle
dazar?
steel lantern
Necromancy and souls are both a thing as well
woven torrent
Cba to remember their names
woven torrent
Still no troll sword from arche
plain jungle
so not rly brought batck
twin oar
Was Dazar a thing back in vanilla?
woven torrent
Shit game
steel lantern
Like I said necromancy
woven torrent
Who tf is dazar
plain jungle
its not the same as straight up ressurection
twin oar
It's the first Zandalari King
twin oar
And the last boss in Kings' Rest
woven torrent
Rastakhan u dofus
plain jungle
wtf when was he ressed?
woven torrent
When you had to get his bloody soul from death loa
twin oar
Wait I'm confused
steel lantern
A lot of troll magic involves binding souls
woven torrent
Ffs
twin oar
You talking abotu Rastakhan?
plain jungle
yikes
woven torrent
ye
woven torrent
I dit it at max lvl
twin oar
I know the quest
woven torrent
As i went from ally to horde
steel lantern
When you get rezan to get bwonsomdi to not claim his soul
woven torrent
So i actually paid attention
steel lantern
Yeah he was only on the edge of death
twin oar
LUL
unborn sable
Oh
woven torrent
Like, i didnt know ysera died until like 3 months after legion
unborn sable
I should probably just go ahead and do my horde characters
plain jungle
Ysera didnt rly die though
plain jungle
her soul goes to the dream
twin oar
How dare you skip that beautiful cutscene?
woven torrent
When she got fucked
plain jungle
where it will reincarnate
woven torrent
By a jobber
steel lantern
Man the aspects fell pretty far after cata
woven torrent
Ye lol
twin oar
There are some good storylines but most of the main story is shit
plain jungle
there are always some cool storylines sprinkled around
that get forgotten
very quickly
twin oar
Tbh Legion was pretty okay I guess but both WoD and BfA are shit
steel lantern
Thrall got his character fucked from cata on
plain jungle
sylvannas should have never survived the spire of icecrown
twin oar
Wish they didn't scrap wod for Legion
plain jungle
her character was fine
the storyline with heir
heyr
the deal with helya
all forgotten
her being garrosh
actually worse than garrosh
there was a lot that happened that was out of garrosh's control
while she is commanding all the dumb shit she does
terrible lore anyway
twin oar
Yeah
steel lantern
I just want pre cata thrall back
twin oar
Garrosh's story wasn't that bad
woven torrent
I love garrosh
twin oar
It was consistent
steel lantern
Voljin got completely fucked over with how he died
woven torrent
ALL HE DID WAS FOR THE HORDE
You ungrateful fucks
Blizz will pull some shit with sylvanus
twin oar
It was said that the whole Stoentalon mountain story was a misunderstanding
steel lantern
Why does the writing team hate the horde leaders
woven torrent
Like controlled by an old god shit
steel lantern
So literal garrosh 2.0
woven torrent
And then she wakes up and is like
O no how cud dis happen
I wud neva kill da allians n da big three
Then next expansion is like
It was all a dream
You wake up in bes after last raid in legion
steel lantern
Nah she's almost certainly going to die either with azshara or the last tier
twin oar
Imagine wow ends at the frozen throne with every champion getting turned undead
screen goes black
you wake up
look at the frozen throne and then your hands
they're all diseased
you close your eyes
blizzard logo
kek
still a better story than wow
twin oar
Yeah and WoW 2 is us slowly regaining consciousness
and whatever bullshit
adding you take a look at the frozen throne and see everyone around you dead
and then you look at your hands and bla bla
this is literally better than bfa in it's entirety
and I'm not even a writer
Fury fantasy was interesting, you take more damage and deal more damage
do you guys remembr the old Whirlwind sound effect?
rip chat
stray kayak
Cant wait for sword spec in PvP <333
proven marsh
twin oar
@proven marsh rip?
uncut hare
What do you guys think of someone who's willing to stream classic as much as possible (up to 16 hour streams) to basically no-life the game and become a neckbeard player?
I've always had it in mind because I'm looking forward to pvp in classic where if I put in the time to get the grand marshal gear I'm going to be putting out damage
So why not stream the progression of it?
woven torrent
Well, no gm gear for a while
frosty haven
streamers are successful based on a couple factors, the popularity of the game and the streamer's personality
slender scarab
be a cool dude while streaming and I'll chuck you a view 😃
there are loads of streamers which put in stupid amounts of streaming hours and are good at the game
but are devoid of personality, or dont even use a mic meaning they dont get much viewers
assuming thats what youre after
but id argue some of the comfier streams which I always come back to
have smaller viewership, but a lot of engagement via the chat
really depends on what youre after
but its best to not assume youre get a lot of people viewing for awhile (over 50 viewers)
royal topaz
@woven torrent explain
round marsh
i would never watch someone doing the grand marshall gear... is non-stop boring grind... endless boring grind, most likely will be fun for some days and near completion but the journey is so long
slender scarab
It not matter process. Result matter
faint raft
So they admitted that the hit table wasn't implemented correctly. Maybe next demo, if there is one, Overpower will be a button you press at some point, other than schooling the occasional rogue in a duel. 😏
frosty haven
hit has nothing to do with proccing overpower
frosty haven
hitting from the front 🤢
woven torrent
Can dodge my frost shock kiting
nova widget
There already is what u talking about
plush hatch
is there a way to bait the adds to spawn closer to melee on stormwall?
the uh sirens
in lamaria phase
grave yarrow
no
plush hatch
damn
jade fog
Wrong chat 
lusty cove
hoo
modern river
What's the best race for an Alliance prot warrior?
thorny niche
human
+5 to sword and mace is very good for tanking
and rep bonus is always handy
hot beacon
Need that Dwarf 10 Frost Resistance for Naxx
frosty haven
warrior racials dont matter that much, but human is probably the best for min max
and if your healers can handle it, you should spec deep fury with prot dip
to add extra dps and TPS
prisma isle
Human for pve gnome for pvp
Orc for pve ud for pvp
frosty haven
dwarf/NE also viable
but i'd probably go with human
the most straightforward choice
idle shale
I mean weapon skill is pretty imba against raid bosses
frosty haven
yeah
idle shale
did humans have rep bonus in vanilla? That ain't all bad either
woven torrent
And human has weapon skill for tundafuree
prisma isle
Rolling horde because I want to redo the ony quest chain again, fuck rexxar
frosty haven
you can go with pretty much any race for horde, all have unique strengths
orc/troll best for pve
orc also really strong in pvp
idle shale
yeah I'd be Orc, troll was a lot more niche in PvE iirc. Where orc had weapon skill, with a lot of great axes in the game, and Blood Fury
woven torrent
Tank troll, deeps orc
steel lantern
Blood fury wasnt great for tanking
frosty haven
kinda depends on how hardcore you are
idle shale
it still put MS on you back in classic didn't it
frosty haven
it did
woven torrent
Yep
idle shale
lol
frosty haven
that group killed onyxia in less than 20s
steel lantern
When?
idle shale
I'm kind of curious if Fury is actually good even back in MC gear. I always remember saying it didn't take off until you had like really good BWL gear.
woven torrent
@frosty haven
idle shale
but no idea if that's true since literally everyone was awful at the game then
woven torrent
frosty haven
its still the best dps spec in MC
woven torrent
Cease
frosty haven
:banned:
steel lantern
Also since classic is using end of vanilla class balance from the start it's not going to end up being 100% the same in terms of what's the best
idle shale
you mean a crit with your 1.6 speed off hand giving you a full rage bar might be too much?
NEVER
frosty haven
fury bursting like 3-4k dps during reck windows while the mages and locks are lucky to break 1k
idle shale
Reck was still a 30 minute cooldown in 1.12 right? I don't remember when they changed it
frosty haven
yeah
pretty sure it was
i thought it was changed like in BC
or the class revamp patch for BC prepatch or something
idle shale
yeah I think you're right. I remember in Naxx wiping when I used my Reck and being a real mad boi
steel lantern
Also shared a CD with SW and something else that I cant remember right now
frosty haven
retalliate
steel lantern
Yeah that's the one
idle shale
they unlinked those at some point before changing the cooldown duration. That might have been during classic
don't remember that either lol
but might have all been the BC patch
slender scarab
frosty haven
esfand :lul:
pine grotto
arms has 0 PVE viability , or maybe we can make it work?
frosty haven
its okay but depends on your definition of viable
and how hardcore you wanna be
its better than most melee, but worse than fury and rogue
which doesnt really say that much since fury is so far ahead
you can tank and pvp as arms
pretty easily
but you can also tank as fury and do more dps
so
¯_(ツ)_/¯
pine grotto
on classic, fury is rage starbed, or has a lot of rage to burn with hs like end of wotlk?
frosty haven
you get lots of rage
but its gear dependent
rotations in general for classic are very basic
fury will have one of the most complicated rotations and its just BT on cd, WW on cd. use HS to spend rage
hunter and rogue probably the most involved rotations
twin oar
You use OP too afaik
Changing stance once OP is usable
@idle shale I think fury becomes strong once you have enough hit
2H Fury is better for mc and bwl I think
Since you don't need a lot of hit for 2H
thorny niche
i feel like most people are going to be rolling warrior this time around
you can already see it on some of the private servers, people always looking for dps and heals since theres so many more many more tanks practicing for classic
brisk yew
Cause all retails players gonna dps 🤘🏻
twin oar
Yeah in most servers. warrior has the biggest percentage of all classes
halcyon mist
i have a hard time imagining warrior, one of the hardest classes to level in vanilla, is more popular than hunter
woven torrent
Cuz people wanna do large pp dps
halcyon mist
you arent doing that as warrior til youve actually done raids and got some sick gear
"warrior starts slow but scales really well" started somewhere after all
ill bet you a nickel hunter is more popular than warrior when classic goes live
nocturne widget
most people will drop off on warrior, majority of people roll it but only like 30% make it in a reasonable timeframe
woven torrent
Just play shaman
nocturne widget
and yeah hunters are shit past mc
nocturne widget
they do damage but they scale like shit
woven torrent
I feel bad for hunters
Great t3 design
Shit class
Dont you need like a couple in a raid?
For the enrage remover or something
idle shale
Yeah
slender scarab
@woven torrent to make a shaman you need to be horde tho
woven torrent
Best faction
slender scarab
I wanted to go shaman in classic but literally everyone I know will go alliance
twin oar
^
Yeah they don't scale well
hunters are good in MC but after that the other dps classes get better
scaling
slender scarab
They are the easiest to level tho
twin oar
That's true
I'd rather level a warrior than a hunter though
I don't like hunters in vanilla
slender scarab
If you are planning to play classic just for the nostalgia factor, do MC and be done with it and not going hard then hunter is a very good pick
How good are they in BWL?
slender scarab
because my guess is that a bunch of people will be done with classic when they clear BWL
hollow reef
Hunters get slotted for that NR Buff for select AQ40 bosses and Razorgore for BWL iirc
other than that, im not very familiar with hunters in vanilla
frosty haven
you keep a hunter around for trueshot
frosty haven
:peepolove:
steel lantern
Yeah the teueshot buff on it's own makes it worth it to bring a hunter
woven torrent
Didnt they have a nature resist buff too, orbwas that at a later expac?
steel lantern
I cant remember
idle shale
they have a NR buff too
steel lantern
Just looked it up aspect of the wild was a raidwide NR buff
frosty haven
but yeah from the discussion earlier, warrior is the most popular spec for people who know the meta
hunters are still popular given their ability to solo and make gold
steel lantern
Warrior was crazy in vanilla
woven torrent
I wonder how much of that dmg was from wf
idle shale
windfury was the nuttiest shit, as an alliance player and getting shamans in BC. Pretty much shit myself
woven torrent
Shamans were every melees best friend
idle shale
yes
frosty haven
yeah
idle shale
that's kind of interesting to see though, all I have are my vague memories but I thought rogues were always super close to warriors basically the entire expansion
idle shale
I mean, I was definitely bad in Vanilla but so was everyone basically haha
steel lantern
I mean most players in vanilla were garbage by today's standards
idle shale
I was still in one of the highest ranked guilds, but was 100% bad looking back lol
steel lantern
Yeah my guild was clearing all the raids but looking back we were trash
frosty haven
well warrior's scale better with gear, and these dps ranks i assume are pretty much full BiS players, also rogues probably didnt get priority on thunderfury and what not
woven torrent
Tf tank weppun
And thats a pserver, so they prolly fed the best stuff to warr first
steel lantern
Assuming you got TF to even drop for anyone in your guild
woven torrent
Since they know meta
idle shale
that's true a fury warrior with a TF was absolutely bonkers
not many of those around back in the day
frosty haven
@steel lantern groups that really tryhard and run MC enough will be able to get everyone TF
with splits
woven torrent
And raggy
Such a nice hammer
And i assume mc runs took like 20m with good gear and people knowing not to stay in fire
steel lantern
Probably a bit longer just off the time spent walking through it
frosty haven
20 min sounds about right for speedrun groups
i bet you could get it really fast if you divide and conquer
woven torrent
Ye
steel lantern
I'm just looking forward to people not being able to go on about how classic was so much harder anymore
idle shale
that is truly one of the worst arguments/ideas ever
woven torrent
Leveling sucked
idle shale
classic was a joke, everyone was just fucking awful at the game
frosty haven
classic required more effort, not more skill
woven torrent
The only hard thing was getting pug tanks for ubrs
frosty haven
which is where people get all scuffed
woven torrent
Eyyyy
steel lantern
It was just a bigger time sink to be able to do anything
hollow reef
How did rogues scale? I remember topping the meters as a combat dagger rogue
idle shale
they scaled alright, just nothing like a warrior.
and rogues were definitely good, I know I didn't really start playing fury until AQ and that good ol' DKP system made it a bitch to get that other set of gear lol
frosty haven
rogues can top meters, but an equally geared and skilled warrior should outperform
idle shale
^
hollow reef
think my warriors were just bad back then
I do remember Naxx geared tanks in WSG and AV near the end of Vanilla. Nothing could stop them
they were mini raid bosses
grave yarrow
rogues also gimped themselves because they couldnt run deadly poison because it took a debuff slot
i dont think it would be enough to make them better than OP 1.12 warriors
frosty haven
also rupture i think
idle shale
I think the debuff problem was solved with 1.12 right?
frosty haven
uh not really
i think until 1.8? there were 8 slots
afterwards it is 16
which is what we are getting
idle shale
Oof
frosty haven
so yeah
not much better
although warriors dont need debuff slots, so the more you run i guess the more available you have
like i think its just sunder
idle shale
Deep wounds was still a thing but very minor in classic iirc
frosty haven
yeah and iirc it was a low prio debuff so more important debuffs wouldnt get overwritten by it
idle shale
I think the wrath version of deep wounds was when it was nutty. Had the ignite treatment and based on ability damage
frosty haven
yeah i think so
ignite is weird in classic, iirc every mage contributes to the same debuff so you dont have like 7 different ignites taking up slots
idle shale
Yeah the first mage to crit got it, and got to keep it. I’m not sure if that was a bug or intended
Have they commented on the debuff slots at all? I could see that being a point of discussion
frosty haven
confirmed for 16
and the way ignite worked im sure was a work around for the slot limits
and yeah the first mage to crit got the buff, until it fell off
idle shale
Yeh
frosty haven
i hope modern damage parsers can record ignite properly
its gonna fuck up meters and logs if not
woven torrent
"Wow. This mages ignite did 50% of the boss health."
spice ocean
no advanced combatlog ( not confirmed atleast i think ) and the debuff being a single one for all mages will make it impossible to differentiate 🤷 best case scenario parsers will just remove ignite damage from all mages and add as its own entity maybe?
grave yarrow
I think i'd prefer they just leave w/e combat bugs that were in vanilla
shadow wind
eh, it's going to mess them up either way, since the mage who has it has a very hard time dpsing properly due to threat
twin oar
Or just increase debuff limits
frosty haven
they would have to increase limits, and fix the ignite ability. 2 changes that, while for the better of class design and balance, will have a very unlikely chance of being made
just for the sake of preserving game mechanics from vanilla
and tbf, the ignite mage having threat problems is mostly on the tank to git gud
violet halo
@alpine belfry
distant saffron
@frosty haven Stop linking my logs :ree:
actually I wasn't there in that particular speedrun lmao
frosty haven
:pepega:
distant saffron
damn can't even :pepega: back
slender scarab
classic wow
windfury shamans
everyone rolling rogue thinking they're as good as the guy in the world of roguecraft videos
cant wait
fluid turret
@ruby kiln bis spec?
ruby kiln
Prot
distant saffron
🤔
Talents, you can change a few points here and there based on preference:
Standard DW fury: https://classicdb.ch/?talent#LbhxkhbZVV0VgxoVo
2h Slam spec for Alliance: https://classicdb.ch/?talent#LbhxkGbZVV0V0EoVo
2H Hamstring spam Spec for Horde: https://classicdb.ch/?talent#LbhxkIbZVVbVMxoVo
Slam Spec for Horde: https://classicdb.ch/?talent#LbhxkIbZVV0V0voVo
Impale Prot: https://classicdb.ch/?talent#Lihb0hbZcZxizoeMzVo
Deep Prot: https://classicdb.ch/?talent#Lq0bZVZEizoeMdVo
Fury Prot: https://classicdb.ch/?talent#LZVVzA0xoVoxfzoe
DW Fury Prot: https://classicdb.ch/?talent#LZVV0VxxoVoxizox
Arms PvP: https://classicdb.ch/?talent#LMhxdIboxuE0zu0x
loud stag
I go for: pvp/leveling https://classicdb.ch/?talent#LMhxdIio0uE0zu0x fury https://classicdb.ch/?talent#LhhxzhbZVV0VgxoVo
distant saffron
yeah thats pretty much the spec I linked :risitas:
loud stag
Ye but 3/3 HS >>> 1/2 overpower
distant saffron
only once you have the gear to not worry about needing OP to pop flurry
loud stag
I wonder how much of an impact not being able to sit and proc enrage will have
hollow reef
if you level a warrior i'd personally wait till a friend hits 60 so they can help you get the best weapons/armor you can at those key levels
IE, Whirlwind Axe at 30 w/ Fiery or Crusader
30-45 was amazing on my warrior because of that
grave yarrow
or just level with a friend and probably grind out the crests for WW axe around 34+
Corpsemaker is a good placeholder for ww axe
same for Ravager
loud stag
Im doing mage/hunter then a pimped out warrior, worked nicely before
woven torrent
Dunno whats so fucking hard about this
grave yarrow
????
pine grotto
grave yarrow
^
loud stag
Make 45-58 amazing with executioners cleaver and finish it off with arcanite reaper HOOOO
hollow reef
How was that Uldaman Sword for Warriors leveling up before they did the weapon speed nerf/changes
I remember the sword was one of the only ones that had a 4.0 attack speed
modern river
Kinda wanna try hardcore raiding in Vanilla since it's going to be during my summer vacation but I also kinda like sleep and personal gain as well
distant saffron
Depends how hardcore you want to go really
I've played in a hardcore guild that raidlogged and a hardcore guild that forced members to keep 2 seperate characters up to date, along with summon alts etc
grave yarrow
I think if you wanna go casual pvp is the best option for you
raiding actually takes so much time
distant saffron
depends on the guild tbh
you can play with a casual guild for 6 hours a week and bring no consums etc
and guilds like that will exist
cedar lantern
6 hrs? what u plan on killing mostly jsut trash ?
gleaming karma
There was this one guild on a private server that clears naxx in about 4hrs
sure thats a ton of people being really geared though
The general skill of the playerbase will be much higher than it was
distant saffron
@cedar lantern people will form super pepega guilds
if you want to be casual, then there will be guilds for you
@gleaming karma 4 hours? try 68 mins
gleaming karma
I mean it was one guild I randomly saw
distant saffron
yeah guilds have clearing down to an art now
I expect rag to be dead in 7 days, BWL in an hour after release, AQ in 2, and Naxx in 3
at the very maximum
gleaming karma
Yeah I dont expect raids to last long at all
distant saffron
The content isn't hard - it's all about pushing it to the extreme now
Like the 33 warrior ony that @frosty haven linked earlier in here
That was us!
Stuff like that is what's going to be fun on classic
luckily warrior is OP in that regard :risitas:
uneven aspen
I want to see pre-nerf C'thun in Classic for this reason
I want to see if he can be done now
Idk if Kungen has weighed in on that, but I'd like to hear his opinion
loud stag
If you want to go proper hardcore raiding you might want to get rank 14 cos those weapons are the best for quite a long time
If you replace them its not til naxx and im not even sure if you do then
uneven aspen
We don't know when they're implementing r14 rewards
hasn't been announced yet
the rest of the content release is known at this point
aside from the actual release date
wooden sparrow
classic pepega
woven torrent
Troll
empty current
whos better tank at lvl 60 nexx items
woven torrent
Troll
woven torrent
Haste
empty current
racial?
empty current
mmmmm better than nature protec?
woven torrent
So that racial is wasted
empty current
the more haste more rage?
raw tangle
Orc isn’t too bad for the 25% reduced stun. It’s what I played back in Vanilla but I wasn’t trying to min/max back then.
hollow reef
tbh. MC isnt that hard
its just that so many people sucked that clearing trash took longer than it should have
When you raided with a guild of competent people 3-4 hour MCs werent unreasonable
i raided in both guilds that took minutes to get to Lucifron and guilds that took an hour+ to get to luci
frosty haven
a group of entirely competent players can get the run under an hour
3-4 hours is more along the lines of a pretty casual group
but if everyone is pre raid BiS, and knows the fights. it should be a breeze
uneven aspen
I'm actually pretty stoked to try it with 15-20 people
Because my guild won't have a "hard" requirement on when to reach level cap
So we will have some people take it slow and enjoy it rather than force it, because we won't need it necessarily
and since it's really not difficult with 1.12 talents, the first people to do it will be the people that don't sleep to get to 60
distant saffron
If you dont have thunderfury you'd be using Crul, which is an axe. Troll for MT, all other warriors roll orc. No reason to roll tauren/UD
distant saffron
@loud stag R14 Weps are good, but not as good as some people make them out to be
Ally - R14 Swords until Emp or AQ40, where you use Emp/R14 Mace and AWH. Swap it in naxx for MSA/Emp and AWH, or any naxx weapon really, MSA/MSA, MSA/Castigator are all better than R14
Horde has it slightly better - R14 Axes until BWL, where you use R14 and Crul. In AQ40 you swap your R14 OH for armaments, and swap the MH in Naxx for Hatchet of Sundered Bone. Or just get UTB from BWL first boss, nice 2H thats bis until MoM :risitas:
mint sail
How important was race choice on Alliance for warrior? tank or otherwise, Im thinking about a dwarf or nelf, more than likely going with whats more asethetically pleasing, but if the racials really gimp/imp me i could be swayed toward any
distant saffron
For PvE or PVP?
mint sail
Ill be doing a bit of both, PvP wont be serious, maybe plan to hit 11
distant saffron
If you plan to do PvE even semi seriously, play Human
Wep skill racial is way too good
mint sail
rgr that, maybe Ill mess around with whatever race I want as an alt, then. dont wanna fuck myself lul
Does 2h slam spec apply to any alliance race? or just orcs?
distant saffron
You can play it as ally, but it's only really useful with UTB
Pretty much mandatory to be human - it feels clunky, your rage gain is pretty bad, and you need both low ping and good timing
mint sail
utb? (sorry, I havent touched classic since...classic and wasnt the best obv LOL)
but understood
mint sail
right got it
hollow reef
PvP - Dwarf. PvE Human
Stoneform killed poisons and bleeds
Humans also won vanilla 10% faster with diplomacy
near linden
but dat orc axe
hollow reef
Did night elves have extra dodge back in vanilla?
ah yeah 1%. Marginal for tanking
distant saffron
not worth in the slightest
hollow reef
Oof. Forgot how beasty Orc Warriors were back then with Hardiness. 25% stun resist
add that Arm's talent and now you're 40% resistant
distant saffron
It was in prot tree in vanilla
theres a 31/5/15 build that oftens floats around
but its not great
hollow reef
Beast Slaying: Damage dealt versus Beasts increased by 5%.. That's a big boost if you're fighting a beast boss. Cant recall how many of those existed for raiding
Core hound in MC, BWL Core Hound
what else?
hollow reef
i didnt raid at all as horde
I leveled a tauren druid, realized i hated 40 man raid healing, and tried to compromise being Boomkin
i never logged back into that druid again
distant saffron
yeah that was unlucky
hollow reef
i love vanilla warriors, but i'll be playing vanilla solo. Prefer not to play the class that does shitty on its own
thinking between a hunter and a warlock for vanilla.
distant saffron
yeah warrior solo is nasty unless you're experienced with the class
hollow reef
I thought about a Dwarf Shadow Priest as well
distant saffron
and even then, its painful on occasion
loud stag
I’ll also be playing solo and for me it was between mage and lock, leaning towards mage so I don’t have to farm shards, also probably going alliance as well so Wotf will be annoying
raw tangle
Mage is pretty easy. Pull a shit ton, frost nova, and blizzard.
Meanwhile on War you pull two mobs and fall over
hollow reef
Aoe farming isn’t that simple for mages. People over/under estimate the power of ranged mobs in vanilla
And how there’s certain areas where that’s viable
Hard for me to decide what I wanna do. Shadow priest is warlock light and brings mana and life regen utility while warlock demon pets, dots, summoning, and conjurables are also fun
Also can heal as a priest
primal kite
spriest didnt give mana regen in vanilla
and vampiric embrace (life regen) is kinda bad
loud stag
If you go spriest a lot of people will just be annoyed at you for not being holy tbh
hollow reef
Meh. at that point though I’m playing for myself and not others
uneven aspen
Spriest does give shadow vulnerability
which is pretty necessary in raids
then you put the extra 31 points in holy or disc
31 in holy if they really need the healing, 31 in disc if your DPS want power infusion for meme parses
modern river
Are alts a thing in Vanilla?
Because I'll be maining a prot warrior for raiding progress.
But I also kinda want a spriest.
jade fog
If you have lot of time sure
past tide
besides the hunter damage is not great to begin with
alts is dependable on what you use them for I'd say
personally I usually one alt for gold farming
but having several ready for raid progress? that's hard, more over when you do a lot of farming runs with your main just because you want that very specific item from certain boss/raid
raw tangle
I had a Warrior I mained and a 60 Rogue and Hunter during Vanilla. But I also had my brother and dad leveling and playing too. It is definitely a time sink.
But there is a lot less to do at max level. If it wasn’t peak time for BGs/Dungeons, you could just level
past tide
Depends if you are a raider or not, the amount of consumables for a single run is quite intense on progress
At least most of the time I spend at 60 is either farming reagents or gold
raw tangle
I was in a AQ40 clear/start of Naxx40 guild
Consumables weren’t really required but encouraged
past tide
Then again, that's dependable on what kind of guild you are of course
raw tangle
Obviously for Naxx40 push that would have been different
I did have to farm all my own materials for TF though. Guild wouldn’t help.
Nothing like doing circles in Unguro for Rich and Ooze veins
past tide
Tbh I've grown used to just lvl a hunter and run maraudon over and over
god bless modern times with a second Netflix screen lol
frosty haven
@uneven aspen shadow vulnerability is only necessary if you are stacking locks. otherwise its just another meme spec
loud stag
You’ll probably find time eventually but if you want to main tank you’ll probably have a lot less time than everyone else anyway
hollow reef
I think hunters would be great if you plan on pvping
Hunter's were pretty great
pew pew pew spam on AV all day, great defenders in AB, and they weren't exactly horrible for WSG
PvE, a bunch of guys who raided as hunters back then mentioned they were on the low end for dps and didnt scale as well as Warriors / Rogues did
twin oar
Yeah, hunters do well on mc and then they fall flat afterwards
hollow reef
If I was to do the pvp thing again (I'd consider it for vanilla wow because pvp wasnt the shitfest it is today) i told myself id be a hunter
twin oar
Hunters can do a lot of stuff
They can kill mana users easily
because of the sting
Viper Sting
loud stag
I wonder if lupos will have shadow dmg or not
twin oar
He won't
If the game is gonna be 1.12.1 then no
he got it changed to physical somewhere around 1.4
past tide
Hunters are fine on pve I actually enjoy them
But their work ain't doing dps per se much of the time
hollow reef
i was always dissuaded from being a hunter because everyone plays hunters
in vanilla/tbc i had some enjoyment / appeal playing the underdog and underplayed classes. Im weird like that
twin oar
Yeah everyone plays a hunter beacuse they're easy to level
hollow reef
reading up on it now. Shadow Priests seem to be PvP monsters, but stale for PvE
i think im confusing shadow priests with TBC ones
grave yarrow
yeah spriest was gross in pvp
twin oar
yeah shadow priests had this physical damage reduction on Shadow Form and they had Inner Fire which gave them tons of armor a
plus the shield
hollow reef
Was it actually optimal back then to have x1 shadow priest, x1 feral druid, x1 boomkin, and what not for the bonus for dps in that 5 man party?
Since buffs werent raid wide yet
grave yarrow
idk about feral/boomkin
distant saffron
It's not optimal, but casual guilds will probs bring a shadow
hollow reef
15% more damage for curse of dooms for when you're trying to beat enrage phases through trickery? yes please
frosty haven
xd
hollow reef
It was more of a Raid Trick back then
Like for Huhuran, she'd enrage at 40%
or whatever
distant saffron
so max 4k damage with CoS and and weaving
hollow reef
Anyway. You'd stack spells like Curse of doom 1 minute out from before she hit that % life enrage. They'd all proc at or around 40/41 percent and in theory, it'd drop the boss down a few percentage points meaning you had to do less overall damage to down the boss
distant saffron
thats the most 2006 strat ive ever heard
distant saffron
so 40% to 1% would be 400k health, right
hollow reef
WELL THATS WHAT MY GUILD DID
hollow reef
I'd do the reee emoji but I cant cross link here
I dunno. that's what my guild did. I was just a filthy rogue at the time
frosty haven
i can see the thought process, but that's really shooting yourself in the foot
just optimize for dps
boss will fall over
hollow reef
I just remember Huhuran enraged at a certain percentage and it became a survival fight for the healers to try to keep as many people up as possible to burst her down
and i wasnt the best raider / wow player at the time. I did what Papa Rogue Leader told me to do
frosty haven
sure but trying to time COD around the enrage is going to cost more mana long term. sounds like someone thought too hard and tried to make it work. or maybe the locks really wanted to see a big cod crit
hit*
hollow reef
https://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=1742 this website from 2007 claims curse of doom also had a 200% coefficient from spell damage
i mean, that'd be 4.8%
distant saffron
TBC source
distant saffron
but lets assume it wasn't change
the lock probs has what, 500 spell damage onaverage?
hollow reef
I'm not gonna defend it. That's just waht we did back then
Was it viable or did it make sense? PRobably not. Did it work for our guild? Sure.
did down C'thun eventually
uneven aspen
Can anyone with extensive private server confirm that the armor debuffs don't work right on private servers? In that they're reducing armor more than they should be
That's what I've heard, and that makes sense why people stack 10+ Fury warriors
in addition to people just knowing how to play Fury now
my friend who raids on private servers and who will be raiding with me in Classic has told me that the MC bosses die in under 30 seconds
in early AQ gear
I'm curious to ask Kungen how fast his MC reclears were
Although I'd imagine they were saving the world buffs for AQ/Naxx at that point
raw tangle
No talk about PS.
But guilds stack fury warriors because of how they scale with gear. Their damage increases exponentially
uneven aspen
Yeah, the bloodthirst formula is like, 100% of attack power, isn't it?
and obviously death wish having such high uptime and a short cooldown
uneven aspen
I don't recall, were there any fury abilities that scaled off weapon damage?
except heroic strike, but that also compensated by being usable more often
unless you count slam I guess
which is more 2H fury
or arms
raw tangle
Not that I know. It was just weapon damage + x
A lot of warriors would have a weapon swap macro
uneven aspen
for heroic strike?
raw tangle
Yes
uneven aspen
when does it check the swing speed?
raw tangle
So the higher damage weapon is main hand before putting it back for flurry
uneven aspen
ahh, I see
so it counts a bigger flurry
past tide
Confirm is hard mainly because nobody really knows about armor or resistance values in Vanilla
Bottom line is there is a high chance those are things that we will not know untill Classic is released.
Having said that, furys are not only stacked because of their great DPS. But also because guilds are now aware they eventually need to gear up to 8 warriors in order to deal with 4 horsemen.
frosty haven
well they are stacked mostly for their insane dps, hardcore guilds can gear up alts with split runs easily enough that roster limitations dont really matter
for the more casual groups, stacking warriors for the purpose of pre gearing for bosses that require extra tanks will be pretty common
loud stag
Theres also the sit crit enrage thing but some people say it was in vanilla and some say it wasnt
So whether its there in summer, who knows but it will make a reasonable difference
And i think WW scales with weapon damage
loud stag
Either way, if youre a warrior who is willing to off tank then youll probs have a raid spot
loud stag
Expensive being a geared warrior tho, half the bis gear is boe
hollow reef
Geared Warriors were scary as fuck in Vanilla PvP
idle shale
that too, would end your day
double trinket, pom pyro, does 7k damage when people had 4k hp
xd
distant saffron
fair bit of misinfo here - will type up a paragraph rq
Armor debuffs are working fine on Pservers - The problem is that armor is too high on them. This means warriors deal less damage than they should. Bosses in full speedruns die in less than 30 seconds - our record is a 7 second lucifron. Warriors scale exponentially with gear due to unnormalised rage - 45% of attack power gets added to bloodthirst. Warriors use a fast OH for more consistent rage gen, not a slow one. We know armor values in classic - I'll post one of my reports on the subject. Most guilds that are hardcore run between 10-15 fury warriors for main runs - In speedruns that number can go higher, we ran 27 for one run, 33 for another. Sit enrage isn't as much of a difference as people think.
uneven aspen
anyone that speaks german in here able to tell me if there is any information on Classic that I can get out of this interview?
http://www.buffed.de/World-of-Warcraft-Spiel-42971/Specials/Ion-Hazzikostas-Interview-Patch-82-Azsharas-Aufstieg-1279023/
google translate just says he is still working on it, but will not announce anything about servers or release dates
It's the first question
woven torrent
@uneven aspen alright, here is the answer
It will be released when its ready
Yeet
uneven aspen
People in North America don't have flexible work schedules 😦
Most people, anyway
People in my guild are concerned about getting time off
and recruitment
wooden sparrow
have they said the thing about classic like how are u gonna get it
woven torrent
I assume it's just a subscription
wooden sparrow
is it with the normal sub or a separate one etc
woven torrent
Since most of the people have already bought it
12 years ago
Same sub
So bfa and classic
frosty haven
you just need an active subscription, you dont need to have the current xpac
raw tangle
I will make Arms work in Classic!
frosty haven
its good in pvp, and "viable" in pve. you wont compete with fury and combat rogues, but against the other meme specs it will be competitive or better
raw tangle
I played Prot during original. Was fun, especially having TF. But PvP was kind of boring just being a meatshiekd
Want to one shot kids as Arms and raid too
idle shale
I mean, despite being bad in general and having retarded classses like ret paladins and arms warriors and whatever else in our raids we still killed everything in the game back then
I find it unlikely that most guilds will be overflowing with people going 100% hardcore gotta have 25 fury warriors or whatever
raw tangle
I think it’s silly
Those hardcore guilds will be complaining once they clear Naxx
About lack of new content
Since how it is now they have to constantly re-level and reclear as Blizz takes PS offline
It won’t be the case with Classic
idle shale
I mean, I think it's fine if that's your goal. People want to max it out. Maybe they'll play alts more or something after that initial rush
but the content will absolutely be crushed lol
raw tangle
Yeah
It wasn’t hard
You just had to carry 20 people who got 1 fps
And the skill level back then was trash compared to now
loud stag
Mortal Strike might push a debuff off the boss tho
idle shale
monkaS
desert junco
idle shale
slender scarab
NA GRIZZLY INC
twin oar
People in Pservers usually play 2h Fury at the beginning like in MC because you won't have enough hit for dual wield
But arms was never a thing in pve
steel lantern
I mean people definitely ran arms in pve back in classic was it good? No but they did it anyway because we were all shit back then
twin oar
I meant it wasn't a thing as in it wasn't good
raw tangle
Most specs will be viable since the content isn’t hard.
People just stack FWars for speed clears
idle shale
I mean people cleared naxx with half their raid as meme specs back in the day because that's what people had. You can play whatever you want, but there are certainly huge swings in performance if you are a min/max player or in some super hardcore guild
twin oar
lmao
mint sail
Does anyone know if there are any BiS lists thru each phase or raid tier for warriors? I can find pre bis or post naxx, but nothing as a checklist as I go.
solar matrix
It's all gonna depend on what patch the itemization is on
a pre-raid 1.12 list is completely different than a pre-raid 1.0 list
halcyon mist
they said something about itemization the other day, that they're keeping an eye on that and trying to gate the powerful boes and stuff in the way that they would have been
i don't recall if items were buffed/nerfed but i remember something about buffed items coming in later when they were buffed, something like that
solar matrix
yeah they're going to add items that were added in 1.10 with the appropriate wave
but there are lots of items that were changed super heavily
stuff like this