protection

[stark sage]

oh

[rigid edge]

I see what you did there Erga

[brittle owl]

so you're also wrong

[stark sage]

oofers trigonometry is haunted

[sweet summit]

its 19

[brittle owl]

better lugg next semester @stark sage

shit dunking on 3 yello names today

i'm on a roll

[restive flax]

btw guys, how do I set my role for the server?

for Prot

[strong forum]

You already have it

[stark sage]

alright @ valkyr ban this guy

[strong forum]

There's no other role

[restive flax]

wat

[brittle owl]

should make a

[strong forum]

Valajar is the regular boi role

[brittle owl]

"failed trigonometry pleb" role

[sweet summit]

its only for yellows so u can see where they are the yellow

[restive flax]

I clicked on a random Stormforged (Anda) and he has Arms n Fruy

[strong forum]

Ye

[restive flax]

Ah I see

[sweet summit]

ig orange and blue has spec roles too

[stark sage]

@ionic fern kill maelk
he's bullying us

[sweet summit]

^

[strong forum]

I never had trigonometry so I couldn't have failed it

:dab:

[brittle owl]

you bullied yourself @stark sage

now you gotta retake an exam gg

you played yourself

[sweet summit]

last time i had math was in first year of high school

and thats at least 3 years ago

[ionic fern]

[strong forum]

Hol up

[ionic fern]

No bully. Be frends.

[restive flax]

nou

[strong forum]

We all are

[rigid edge]

Would it be undefined?

[strong forum]

Erga 18yo or what

I are confusion

[restive flax]

or he was very late for Highschool

[sweet summit]

19 👴

[strong forum]

Baby

Literal zoomer

[ionic fern]

What.

[still pagoda]

🙃

[ionic fern]

Youngsters everywhere.

[stark sage]

imagine having a birth year that starts with 20XX

mega cringe

[restive flax]

^

[strong forum]

This

[ionic fern]

That's scary.

Tbh

[sweet summit]

oh

oh no

[brittle owl]

imagine using cringe unironically

[sweet summit]

shut up cringe man

[rigid edge]

Imagine being born in 2020

[strong forum]

Woah

2920

Wow 2.0 announced

[brittle owl]

i'd want that tbh

[restive flax]

^^

[rigid edge]

Shh no one saw that

[stark sage]

🤖

[brittle owl]

maybe SL is finally fixed then

[ionic fern]

It's fixed.

Balanced around WQ content.

[restive flax]

Pog

nice

[rigid edge]

Classic would be at BFA at that point

[restive flax]

Honestly I am very curious about Torghast though

[ionic fern]

I'm not. 😦

[strong forum]

I hope they work on it

[ionic fern]

Looks like another chore i won't do.

[strong forum]

Like 3000% more

[restive flax]

Its only once a week tho

[strong forum]

Exactly

[ionic fern]

Too much.

[strong forum]

That's the issue

[ionic fern]

I did like 10 islands total in bfA.

So i'm lazy

[strong forum]

Just another chore

[restive flax]

I didnt do a single island

[strong forum]

To get off of the checklist

[restive flax]

But I also skipped BfA basically

[rigid edge]

I haven't read much on Torguast what is it all about?

[ionic fern]

RNG.

[brittle owl]

@sweet summit do you want the answer

[restive flax]

Its a solo / coop roguelike dungeon

sort of

[sweet summit]

sure

[brittle owl]

cotangent can be written as cosine/sine

[rigid edge]

Hmm didn't they had something similar on XIV? I love roguelikes tho

[restive flax]

me too

[brittle owl]

x/y when x goes to infinity and y goes towards 0 is infinity

[restive flax]

Which is why I'm interested in Torghast

[brittle owl]

cosine of infinity is undefined -1 ; 1

sine of infinity is undefined 1 ; -1

[rigid edge]

Hey I said it was undefined 😅

[brittle owl]

ctg of infinity is therefore -1

well it's technically undefined and oscillating between -1 and negative infinity actually

so @rigid edge gets a B+

[civic rover]

i hate math

that is all

[strong forum]

I was only 1 number off

Can't be that wrong

[tame garden]

I did like 10 islands total in bfA.
@ionic fern

[sweet summit]

speg you look great today

[uneven mason]

11%

threat boost

yeah, that'll fix BrMs problems

🙄

[last mason]

are there actually new wqs or just dailies

and where do you kill nathanos

[restive flax]

Plaguelands or Tirisfal I think? Not 100% sure

Would assume in plaguelands where his house is

[sick sentinel]

It's Plaguelands. He even mocks players for taking so long to try to check his house.

[sweet summit]

ok this is epic

[modern brook]

execool

[uneven mason]

Yup

its that nice

[modern brook]

at least the dps specs got shield blcok to even out the unpruning

[uneven mason]

Ignore pain has actually come in handy while I've been running around as arms

[modern brook]

SR is also the meat tbh

i just wanted to meme cause :warrior:

[uneven mason]

SR

mmm yes SR

[modern brook]

oh im ont cool rip

[limpid pawn]

how much leech % does all pieces with leech give you?

[uneven mason]

could've given us DS

[limpid pawn]

memory of lucid dreams brings my passive leech from 9% to 15%

[mellow patio]

That depends on the amount of leech per piece brother

[limpid pawn]

roughly

like a range would be good im just curious

[mellow patio]

Usually 2-4% leech per piece if my forehead math is right

[sweet summit]

man lucid execute slaps

[mellow patio]

Large rage

Large execute

Large damej

[brittle owl]

damej

[mellow patio]

Larj damej

Raj

[modern brook]

@limpid pawn 6.40250276

is the current ratio

at 60 its nearly 21 flat

source: https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/theory/mechanic/array/leechratingarray?spec=MageFrost&version=live

So for every ~6.5 leech you get 1% leech

based on the highest tank in the world rn

It looks like each peice gives between 10-20 with a median around 12

[sweet summit]

man i love this

why didnt i try this earlier

[modern brook]

For the sake of napkin math we can call it 13, and say each piece gives ~2% leech

== 22% leech after you exclude neck, cape, and azerite

give or take

[last mason]

anyone know if nathanos drops shields

[strong forum]

erga what didnt you try

im confused

[sand condor]

woah

[strong forum]

@sweet summit answer me

[sweet summit]

lucid execute and telling people to stop dps 📈

[strong forum]

ah

ye

ravej + lucid execute

📈

[sweet summit]

yeas

[brittle owl]

smack

[sand condor]

lucid exec

someone explain this to me so i can copy it

[sweet summit]

take lucid major

take ravager

once the boss hits 20%

use ravager->lucid->avatar+execute

and only execute

if youre running dragon roar

pop it once youre low on rage/with GS stacks (if you have GS) depending on how early boss will die

take coral too if you have it

and save it for execute

like, apply on pull

and extract with lucid

[strong forum]

that was a very low key erga wasnt it

[sweet summit]

yes

it was a 16

[strong forum]

ye figured

use booming voice

[sweet summit]

i wanna try this in raid

[strong forum]

instead of dragon roar

[sweet summit]

but i also dont wanna raid

so idk

[strong forum]

yeah..

[sweet summit]

ya BV is prob better for this

but i prefer DR in m+

like

its sick

doing a 16

just pulling everything

and DR slaps

big number

me like

[sand condor]

aight

i am doing this

and if i depelte this 15 because of it

i will laugh

[sweet summit]

blame me

np

[uneven mason]

pul many packs, pop all CDs, leap to center, DR, stun intervene out

[sweet summit]

out?

what does that mean

[sand condor]

im grabbing that booming voice

[uneven mason]

so murbs not behind you (I said center)

[sand condor]

for that 20% extra damage

on my executes

[sweet summit]

but 🐉

:(

[modern brook]

🐲

[sand condor]

I love DR

Gotta say that

[ebon lark]

https://www.wowhead.com/news=319030/shadowlands-pre-patch-world-boss-nathanos-blightcaller-drops-ilvl-115-loot

me likey that shield

[still pagoda]

That shield was there since 8.1 tho

👌

[ebon lark]

oh?

i never got it

ever

U_U

oh well easy access :p

[uneven mason]

Do darkshore?

you can't fall down stairs without running into that stuff

[still pagoda]

Downstairs is warfronts

And falling from warfronts is falling into the abyss of garbage content blizz made over these years

[ebon lark]

I did the rares for 2 weeks it was up and I never seemed to get the night elf shield

and i was like ??

around that time I stopped playing BfA though

[still pagoda]

Are you alli?

[ebon lark]

mhm

[still pagoda]

Heh

Rng

You could also get it from pvp back then

[ebon lark]

My PvP friends quit because they didn't want to regrind azerite

which lead to me quitting cause no friends =

😞

[uneven mason]

Oh you mean the NE stuff

[ebon lark]

yea

[uneven mason]

....I Mean, I don't judge

[ebon lark]

played a nelf warrior since TBC and i try to get a decent nelf look going

[uneven mason]

but wearing smurf armor

just doesn't appeal

[ebon lark]

smurfs are blue

nelf armor and stuff is green, purple, and some white/blue adornments usually

[uneven mason]

a decent nelf look going
@ebon lark You might as well ask for a ranged spec for warriors.

[ebon lark]

i just want our heritage armor

[uneven mason]

you can put flowers in your hair now

[ebon lark]

always found it odd how the less played races got their stuff first

[uneven mason]

🤷‍♂️

[ebon lark]

besides blood elfs

cause everyone plays belfs

[uneven mason]

Because making Night Elves look good is on par with balancing borrowed power systems, they just don't seem to be able to do it.

But Hey, smurfs got eyebrows finally after 15 years

[still pagoda]

i just want our heritage armor
@ebon lark
Darnasus archer slutmog incoming

[ebon lark]

i have no problem with this

i mean they gave blood elves body jewelry in the beta

:p

and by that I mean chains hanging off their bra and such

a lot of this customization is neat but you need to slutmog to see it on a lot of races (troll, orc, worgen, dwarves comes to mind off the top of my head)

but anyway back to prot stuff don't wanna get in trouble for derailing

[still pagoda]

and by that I mean chains hanging off their bra and such
@ebon lark

This didn't make it to prepatch tho

Absolute slutmog experience is not here

[ebon lark]

My thing is its like you give nightborne glowing tatoos

But to see them you need no armor, armor from literally 15 years ago, or cool racial armor they have but can't use because "its attached to the NPC models"

[lavish oracle]

Do we know how big the threat bump was?

[modern brook]

11

[lavish oracle]

Ah, good, this helps

[undone sun]

It's something ¯_(ツ)_/¯

But really a double edged sword

[lavish oracle]

I meant more from like a numbers perspective

Base threat multiplier for tanks in BFA was ~4x

And then 4 essences buffed it to ~6x

[grand drum]

to 11 from what during prepatch?

[lavish oracle]

It's not actually 11, hah

(Pretty sure)

Afaik, it's still a little less than 6x until we lose essences

And back to 4x without them

Couldn't tell you what the new number is

[undone sun]

it was an 11% increase, according to wowhead

[modern brook]

Yeah

[lavish oracle]

Ah, okay, so we should be at like 4.85x threat up from 4.35x

Hm

Not sure that's enough but hey, I'll take it

[undone sun]

Tanks gain threat equal to 5 times of damage done (was 4.5 times)
With the Heart of Azeroth equipped, Tanks will gain threat equal to 7.5 times damage done (was 6.75 times)

[lavish oracle]

https://www.wowhead.com/news=294012/how-much-more-tank-threat-does-each-essence-slot-give

Is where I'm getting my numbers

[toxic wadi]

Does shield block just block auto attacks, or does it also block physical damage abilities?

[lavish oracle]

Blocks most phys abilities but it's a case by case basis

[frank jay]

How are prot war looking in SL?

[civic rover]

Can’t say much atm but as of now on live it honestly feels pretty good

Compared to all the other tanks they’re looking to be middle or back of the pack but they’re all pretty closely balanced imo. I’m having a lot of success with all of them in keys.

@strong forum you’ve been playing punisher and HR right?

[ebon lark]

As Beef said, the most balanced things in the game overall role wise is probably tanks

[cinder nova]

You wanna hear some wishful thinking?

IP also potentially resetting SS.

How massive of a buff do you think that'd be? 🤔

[modern brook]

I mean it doesnt make a lot of sense

Ip isnt rotational and having a reset off the global cooldown seems awkward

[cinder nova]

I mean in addition to devastate, revenge, and TC

[sweet summit]

Id rather have it on SB then. Makes more sense to me

[cinder nova]

Honestly just having any additional vectors to reset SS seems like a straight buff

And it's not like we wont be slapping the shit out of IP on fights that are magic heavy.

I mean I don't even turn on ShB for anything other than DPS on Skitra

[strong forum]

you’ve been playing punisher and HR right?
@civic rover na, devastator + bolster
I played punish for a few keys, but always bolster cuz HR is only a raid talent imo

[civic rover]

it actually feels pretty good for M+ surprisingly

but bolster with devastator is so good

[strong forum]

Never tried it

Could be

[ionic fern]

I despised HR in m+.

Feels horrible.

No control over your mitigation and being pissed that SB falls off just as SS resets.

Could become better once we get more haste tho.

[strong forum]

HR + ITF new meta

[still pagoda]

last time i've seen HR being good was in T19

[undone sun]

and im pretty sure that was because of a maths error

[sand condor]

Can’t HR/Punish potentially be good for a heavy physical damage fight?

Raid wise

THE

RNG

HAS FINALLY

BEEN KIND

[strong forum]

Vic, devastator has huge synergy with HR

Punish doesn't pair as well

You want as many SS resets as you can get playing HR

Punish is moreso for magic / dot intensive encounters

[sick sentinel]

General tanking question, coming back to the game after a (very) long break

Is it just normal now for everyone to be extremely abusive toward tanks?

[ionic fern]

Yes.

[sick sentinel]

Like if I’m still learning fights (or just the very diff prot toolkit) I will take constructive criticism

[ionic fern]

Especially if you're joining this late into the expansion.

[sick sentinel]

If someone is a dick to me I just leave. Enjoy the tank queue

[ionic fern]

People have stupid expectations that you know everything and if you don't they will just yell at you like morons.

So jeah..unfortunately it's a thing.
It will get better once you familiarize yourself with stuff obviously but as a new/returning player joining late into the expansion it's horrible.

But as you said - luckily you're a tank and you can do like 5 dungeons with a different group before they can find a new tank.

🙂

[sick sentinel]

Yeah, I’m definitely not taking it to heart (and I’m trying to improve, of course)

It just seems silly to me to antagonize tanks as that could fuck up your whole run right there if they leave

[still pagoda]

🙃

also, you can ignore chat for all it takes

[sick sentinel]

If they are minimally competent but just aren’t familiar with some encounter it would be a lot more productive to teach them, not potentially risk sitting around for 10+ min or the group disbanding..

[still pagoda]

treat chat in pug keys like chat in League of Legends

[sick sentinel]

My problem is that I’m a little vindictive

If someone talks shit i like to screw them over if I can

But yea I’ll try to not get so tilted

[still pagoda]

if only there was /mute all in WoW

[sand condor]

we have /ignore

[rigid edge]

People have stupid expectations about Tanks, especially on Keys, you are supposed to have all top routes memorized, know all fights, know your class, and have a nice looking transmog, otherwise you don't deserve to live

[strong forum]

And be a monk

Make all the call outs

[brittle owl]

hey

[strong forum]

Basically be perfect, and if the healer fucks up and the dps die on a boss mechanic, the key is automatically depleted with no way to recover, absolutely impossible

And it's also your fault

[sand condor]

if the hunter pulls 3 packs

while youre already tanking 3

its clearly your fault

[brittle owl]

wrangling retards is better than following some rando turtle dude that thinks he knows whats up

[strong forum]

Absolutely

[rigid edge]

It's always your fault, especially if the servers crash, that's also your fault

[strong forum]

We have a saying

If you don't want to have a shit tank, be the shit tank.

[brittle owl]

who cares

suck it up chum

top the dps meters to assert dominance

scumbag pulls

put the dps in place

healers? they exist to serve you

[rigid edge]

Ha that's a good one, honestly? If I'm not confident on what I'm doing I let people know prior hand, if they give me shit, I just leave before starting, saved me a lot of trouble in the past

[brittle owl]

someone gives you shit? next time he ninja pulls something let him die

"that's what you get for talking smack"

[rigid edge]

The worst part is as Nome said, I don't have enough fingers to count the amount of times I've saved a key from mentally challenged Healers, and DPSs that thought they were playing a First Person Shooter. But it doesn't even matter.

[brittle owl]

i mean

that's normal

you expect things to go well

[strong forum]

Literally had that happen 2 days ago, I was playing dps. Wiped on UR 2nd boss cuz healer didn't heal enough

Everybody leaves

:wat:

And I get flamed cuz I didn't top dps meter

Vs a frost mage

[brittle owl]

idk man

all the 6 keys i've done so far in prepatch

all of em i had a frost mage

all of them did dps lower than the healer

[rigid edge]

I hate quitters so much, they are the bane of the game at the moment imo

[brittle owl]

i get a feeling frost mage is the new outlul

[strong forum]

Well the mage I play with atleast knows what he's doing

Ye frostmage is new outlul

200%

[rigid edge]

Everyone is making a Mage

[strong forum]

Or warlock

[sand condor]

didinty

they smack mage

hard today

[strong forum]

We need to do some keys this week mael

[brittle owl]

:o

[rigid edge]

Class hoppers 🤷 and they wonder why they never get good at the game, even after using "tha op class"

[brittle owl]

what even is this week

teeming something

[sand condor]

we should set up 4 warrior groups

quaking

[strong forum]

Fort teeming quaking

[sand condor]

🦆

[strong forum]

Aka big pad week

[brittle owl]

fort teeming

big pümp

[rigid edge]

Sounds like a fun week

Full WAR group or go bust

[strong forum]

Ye it's omega pad week

[brittle owl]

breh

[strong forum]

Well mael isn't war

I tink

[brittle owl]

i am a tactical nuclear holy bomb

my war is stuck in 8.1

[strong forum]

Perfect, I'll show you my omega 100ilvl affli powers

[brittle owl]

[rigid edge]

Haha, man I love this community

[strong forum]

Our healer is out this week, so you can tank, I'll meme, and our resident druid will heal

Ez

[brittle owl]

ez clap

meme keys best keys

[strong forum]

Only do meme keys

25/26s

👏

[rigid edge]

Technically a Paladin is just a Warrior who is scared of death, so you still a Warrior

Speaking of holy bombs, didn't Retribution got pumped this patch?

[strong forum]

Doesn't matter, all that matters is having 3x Lights Decree

There's your Auto pump

1 LD on a ret pally is like 400dps

Alone

[rigid edge]

I see, damn, I haven't touched Paladin since TBC

[sand condor]

welp

i've done the 20 minute questline

and enjoyed the 3 dailies and the 1 worldboss

is this the entire event

[strong forum]

Enjoy your 1 more quest next week

Finish the epic story line

[sweet summit]

[sand condor]

damn son

I'm so hyped!

thanks bliz

also, varian and saurfang in maldraxus?

[jovial zodiac]

Im told Elvis and Kennedy is also in Maldraxus

[sand condor]

this would make sense

[slender socket]

Hello all! Quick question: I know that spell reflect has been nerfed by blizz for SL, does anybody know where to look up a list of the mobs/spells that can be reflected in M+?

[strong forum]

#698541559049748520

Also SR hasn't been nerfed, they just started designing bosses and dungeons with it in mind

[slender socket]

Fair enough 😀 is there any sort of guideline where you could determine what can be reflected in that case? Or how do you guys go about this?

[sand condor]

there'll be a weakaura probably

[jovial zodiac]

There used to be a document for bfa raid/dungeonbosses listing blockable/reflectable abilities.

Ought to be one for SL too

[strong forum]

I'll go with my experience

Also just press it on CD when there's something happening

And then find out if you took dmg / the buff got eaten / if you didn't take dmg

If you didn't take dmg from X mechanic, you deflected it completely without the buff getting eaten, if the buff got eaten you did reflect or deflect something

If you took dmg and the buff persisted, you only reduced the dmg and nothing has been reflected/deflected

[ebon hound]

^ 5head advice

[sand condor]

or

you didn;t press it hard enough

[jovial zodiac]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRvMMhBT1xyvECDvAlxXirfLYtgzYZ18vjY3zRyA4LU7NgVg5Vmj-MroMT5W6i94q0aYNodyer0hbZ3/pubhtml#

Thats the reflect/block document

[strong forum]

For bfa yes

[jovial zodiac]

Its updated for every tier, so it ought to be updated for SL as its released i imagine

[strong forum]

Well the SL one is linked in #698541559049748520

So, it'll just get a new link in #268491842637660160

[toxic wadi]

Which level 30 talent does the most damage, best served cold, booming voice, or dragon roar?

[jovial zodiac]

Should think booming voice if youre still running bastion/avatar build.

Personally im finding best served cold pretty nice aswell. But havent really done much challenging content after prepatch

[toxic wadi]

ok how about most damaging talent for open world, questing, and torghast?

best served cold I imagine?

[jovial zodiac]

From the torghast testing i did, burst seemed the best choice

[toxic wadi]

oh ok

[strong forum]

Dragon Roar or BV are both great

Best Served Cold is a dead talent

Never pick it

[toxic wadi]

ah ok

Then I'll use booming voice

I try to go for the least amount of buttons to push in my build lol

so i'll take devastator and BV

[strong forum]

Sure

[uneven mason]

DR is crunchy level satisfying though

big pull + uncapped AE, makes me remember the glory days of 8.1

[slender socket]

While on the subject, is this for sure that DR is uncapped? Follow up Q: whats the least amount of crit where its not worth anymore to talent into it?

[uneven mason]

🤔 Whats crit got to do with it?

[strong forum]

DR is uncapped, has no dmg drop-off

Without Sims we don't exactly know if there's a sweetspot for DR

Sweetspot / breakpoint

It's good dmg regardless

[rigid edge]

I'm gonna miss the cloud with the sunglasses

[strong forum]

Already..

Man, everytime I try a new avatar

[rigid edge]

I thought you were a mystical being, I feel tricked

[strong forum]

I can be everything you want me to be 😳

[rigid edge]

And on-topic DR is really fun to use, and got sweet damage as he said

I feel like the inclusion of DR, Rav and Execution made Prot even more fun to play, but that might be me

[modern brook]

honestly how u gunna look at his new avatar and not think he's a mystical being still??

my guys rocking rimless glasses thats op

[rigid edge]

That's a good point... He is OP

[modern brook]

To your point though; hard agree

Prot's offensive rotation feels great rn

even if the #s arent really up to the stupidity of some of the other tank specs

[strong forum]

😳

[rigid edge]

That's right, I mean it's not really a issue for me, I try not to compare specifics against other Tanks, and focus more on general utility and what we can bring to the table ourselves, unless of course they break our class completely...

[modern brook]

honestly same

Every other tank is snoresville tbh

[uneven mason]

Warrior is🤘

[rigid edge]

Very true, I couldn't get the same satisfaction while Tanking as I do with the Warrior

Especially as a Monk for me, tried it, never could get into the class...

[uneven mason]

Google "The Fetid Log"

Reasons why BrM is boring, because it doesn't matter if you press buttons

outside of holding aggro

Oh wait, with your Ox statue, doesn't matter there either, justl iterally make a macro to taunt the statue every 6s

[ebon hound]

Looks like SivHD's intelligent brother 😉

[still pagoda]

Reasons why BrM is boring, because it doesn't matter if you press buttons
@uneven mason

[strong forum]

Kek

[still pagoda]

well, it's a bit more fun with SL changes

but still pretty boring

[uneven mason]

They literally removed a button

the most important button

from how gameplay worked with BrM in BFA

They read "The Fetid Log" and went, wow they're frustrated that pressing Ironskin brew doesn't seem to matter! - Lets REMOVE THAT BUTTON SO ITS SMOOTH BRAIN ALL THE WAY DOWN

[strong forum]

Now you can skillfully press CB

But also receive more healing from healers and get bigger absorbs

[uneven mason]

and the gaming of evasive still is there I think...

🤷‍♂️

BrM will be BrM

But prot will always be 🤘

[slender socket]

🤔 Whats crit got to do with it?
@uneven mason I mean it does 3x normal damage if it crits, that's why in my head it goes well with a crit build (like rings, neck, trinket);

[modern brook]

I think between natural crit and neck/cape you cant get low enough for that to be relevent, tbh

[slender socket]

I see

[sweet summit]

o wait

:/

[modern brook]

though to my knowledge no ones done the graph out yet

Hoenstly just use he big circle of yelling death because its a big circle of yelling death

[sweet summit]

yes

[modern brook]

The problem with the other two talents for damage (and dont get me wrong, voice is still dope AF), is that best served cold is ignorable, and that BV is a damage buff and we're no longer global capped

Esp now that our damage is (rightfully) in a spender in aoe

so we're no longer fitting like 12 casts of our big damage button inside that window. Im sure we could if we play around it and stuff, like pooling rage - but frankly just press the big yell button and get a bunch of rage and ignore all that garbo

My point just being that BV lost value with UF no longer being the major source of damage

[sweet summit]

ya but it lines up with ravager aka big rage time

big rage time=much revenge

[modern brook]

vtrue yeah

[uneven mason]

DR is fun, BV is probably still going to lead in damage and survivability

overall

[modern brook]

I hope not tbh

DR should lead in damage imo

but BV also just scales better

so probably

[uneven mason]

with DC I think BV will outpace DR 5 or below mobs

big pulls in M+ obviously the uncapped ability will lead

in SL without DC DR will for sure lead

but thats #698541559049748520

[jovial zodiac]

Remains to be seen how viable big pulls will be at all, seeing as nearly all dps is targetcapped. Large pulls has worked cause theyre all dead before your cooldowns run out. That might not be so anymore, atleast not on meaningful keylevels.

[modern brook]

most ranged specs are uncapped right now

[jovial zodiac]

Really?
Spridits and affliction locks count as most?

Spriests

[modern brook]

Destro is also uncapped; all aoe spells on mages are uncapped except maybe arcane

[jovial zodiac]

https://www.wowhead.com/guides/shadowlands-target-capped-abilities-uncapped-capped-spells#warlock-destruction

Says differently

[modern brook]

does it?

[jovial zodiac]

It does

[strong forum]

Blizzard and frozen orb are capped to 8 I think

Cba looking at the data

[warm plinth]

Frozen orb, yes. Blizzard has the 20 target softcap

[jovial zodiac]

Read up on what softcap actually means

[warm plinth]

I know what the soft cap means

It's been around since MoP

[modern brook]

20 softcap has been in the game since mop ;^)

[strong forum]

Sneaky

[warm plinth]

Smooth Bull

😂

[modern brook]

I strated in legion

T-T

[jovial zodiac]

Youre arguing that softcap and uncapped is the same thing?

Think rhis argument is done already

[warm plinth]

Who even said that lol

Your imagination?

[warm plinth]

Yeah but pretty sure no one said that uncapped and softcap are the same thing

Bull was obviously just mistaken when he thought it was uncapped.

[modern brook]

my point is just that

If it works now

and your argument is that target capping will minimize omega pulls

The fact that like 80% of ranged specs are uneffected by the target capping changes

means they'll still probably work

[strong forum]

Warlocks, mages and uhdks can still solo entire TD beach for example. So yeah, stuff will happen in some dungeons, it's just not possible by certain layouts in SL

[jovial zodiac]

We'll see i guess how it turns out. But i remain doubtful it'll be a thing like it was in bfa on anything other than trivial keylvls

[strong forum]

Prolly gonna see some interesting stuff on Friday

Beta m+ meme tournament

But no hardcore chumps I think

[jovial zodiac]

Need to remind myself to catch that. Ought to be fun to see either way.

[sand condor]

My healer is finally back

[sweet summit]

pog?

[sand condor]

Nah this is a real one

[sweet summit]

pog

[sand condor]

PepeD

[frail blade]

does revenge apply deep wounds to all targets or just the first 5?

[strong forum]

All targets

Revenge hits everything, just not for full dmg

[frail blade]

thanks

[rigid edge]

Did anyone grab the 34 slots bag already?

[ionic fern]

I haven't even done any things yet as the lag is unbearable.

[bitter pumice]

sorry for the noob question, just resubbed and read the icy veins talents guide, having trouble picking between Anger Management / Unstoppable -VS- Ravager and Bolster for M+, any advice?

[uneven mason]

Now 80% less meme

[ionic fern]

@bitter pumice really play which ever you want, both of them work.
AM is still strong due to triple BoM. On higher keys where you need more block uptime you probably want to go for Bolster instead.

[bitter pumice]

roger, ty!

[limpid pawn]

is it just me, or does vengeance DH have much fewer abilities than other tanks

[strong forum]

yes

[modern brook]

U mean the spec whos entire rotation was literally the shear button for an entire raiding tier?

[limpid pawn]

i just started gearing up my dh today, prepatch seems like a great time

they seem to have some massive downtime with their demon spikes

[strong forum]

yup

always have

[limpid pawn]

is meta considered good mitigation while spikes are down

[strong forum]

VDH is AM downtime, the spec

[limpid pawn]

or like do you ideally want meta and spikes up at the same time

[strong forum]

never pair meta and spikes

youre already immortal during meta

[limpid pawn]

ok

[modern brook]

I feel like these might be questions the vengecnce discord is better prepped to answer, although just trusting nom is always sa good option :^)

[grand drum]

^

[limpid pawn]

i trust nom more than the VDH discord bro

[modern brook]

Honestly same

[strong forum]

ill just answer his questions in there

lmao

:^)

[limpid pawn]

i'm already in like 4 tanking discords

lemme live my life

[dusky mica]

leave them all they're all nonsense

[mellow patio]

You leave fel hammer out of this

That is a lawless wasteland to be preserved in time

[kindred crypt]

I figured out the question belongs here: I heard as a prot warrior you sometimes got threat problems, did the 11% buff help or not?

[sweet summit]

when did we get buffed what

[strong forum]

if you dont have good dps players, you wont notice it

[sweet summit]

did i miss something

oh nvm i cant read

[strong forum]

and in general, you wont notice it no

[kindred crypt]

Oh okay, so just a thing when everyone doesn't know their stuff?

[strong forum]

11% isnt enough to hold aggro instantly of a great DPS player going insta ham in SL

currently in pre-patch its still fine, but in SL is when you start having issues

cuz RN you generate 7.5x aggro with neck

in SL you'll only generate 5x aggro ontop of losing azerite traits, because the neck wont work anymore

[kindred crypt]

So you lose a ton of threat and blizzard doesn't do a thing? But well, seems like people can't go randomly ham any more, or at least shouldn't

[strong forum]

yeup, they adjusted tank threat by giving tanks 50% threat modifier for the gain off essences and corruption in 8.3 through your necklace

we lose that in SL

[sick sentinel]

whats up gang

[modern brook]

talkin bout threat

you?

[sick sentinel]

anyone on voie chat

are pvp tanks still in?

[strong forum]

never have been

unless youre talking RBGs

[sick sentinel]

rbgs

[modern brook]

i think VDH is still the FotM for rbgs

pvp might have more qualified opinions tho

[strong forum]

not as much anymore through the infernal strike nerf

meta was havoc actually as FC

currently idk tho, nobody plays rbgs

[modern brook]

whoa not cool

theres a lot of 15 year olds who think their glad rbg rank matters who'll get mad at that statement

[strong forum]

good

[uneven mason]

Havoc being FC right now would be about as successful as using a water balloon as a truck tire.

[strong forum]

havoc has been FC for a while

[uneven mason]

Yeah I know 😄

because double FR VR Meta leap

and glide

[kindred crypt]

yeup, they adjusted tank threat by giving tanks 50% threat modifier for the gain off essences and corruption in 8.3 through your necklace

Do you think it would be better to give all tanks more damage so they can generate more? As example paladin and DH

Or just modify the threat generation?

[uneven mason]

I mean, I think tank damage should matter, but they neutered all of the AEs in SL.

8.1.5 prot was best

Big damage, big tank

I think its more giving us the appropriate tools to maintain aggro on the same # of targets as DPS can DPS, without the idiotic scaling they've imposed

some DPS have uncapped AoE

we're softcapped

[strong forum]

getting more dmg is always the answer

im a dps whore so ill always say that

[uneven mason]

but for DR

[strong forum]

simply modifying threat gen is degenerate

[sick sentinel]

whats everyone running on there talents and pvp t's

[uneven mason]

PVP?

[strong forum]

and doesnt add into playing well = aggro

[uneven mason]

wat

[strong forum]

if you have omega threat multiplier

[graceful brook]

guys is Kazzak server down or something ??

[strong forum]

yeah seems so

i cant login either

[uneven mason]

WTB BFA TC

[graceful brook]

same

[strong forum]

i was just about to farm my Zaq shoulders 😦

[kindred crypt]

8.1.5 prot was best
Wasn't he OP back then? Or wasn't corruption implemented there?

[strong forum]

Pwar beat DPS in aoe

regularily

( did in 8.0 aswell but hey )

[limpid pawn]

lol 815 prot war was insane

they had to make room for our twilight devastation with dat nerf

[kindred crypt]

So you want prot warrior to be OP again?

[limpid pawn]

just have all the tanks on deck

[strong forum]

no, i just want to deal damage

[limpid pawn]

you will always be OP

[strong forum]

good ol season 1

[kindred crypt]

no, i just want to deal damage

That's...not your mainjob

[brittle owl]

yikes 10k overall dps

[strong forum]

it is

[brittle owl]

also yes, it is

[uneven mason]

Prot main job is dealing damage

[brittle owl]

tanks is for pump

[uneven mason]

Why you think we got execute back

[strong forum]

if you dont pump as a tank, youre weak

[uneven mason]

and Ravager was unnerfed

If not pump as tank - must be BrM

[brittle owl]

survival is binary, you either live or you die

dps is not

[kindred crypt]

Why you think we got execute back
Idk, never played prot warrior?

[brittle owl]

living more or living better is pointless

[uneven mason]

But yeah, 8.0 until they nerfed TC in 8.2? We could pump 6digit DPS burst on big pulls

[kindred crypt]

I am just looking on which tanks look funny to sl and which communities are interesting

[uneven mason]

"Can't hurt me when its dead"

[strong forum]

id say all tank communities are similar, since we're less people and have kind of the same goal

[brittle owl]

best defense is a good offense

[strong forum]

especially the more well versed individuals

[uneven mason]

Finally something me and the windchime agree on

[brittle owl]

also most tank communities have alot of individuals in common

[strong forum]

and that ye

[kindred crypt]

id say all tank communities are similar, since we're less people and have kind of the same goal

I can deny that, you have ever seen the guardian community?

[uneven mason]

I got washed away by all the tears

🤷‍♂️

[brittle owl]

DG is full of bear fanfic

[strong forum]

@undone sun what are you doing

[kindred crypt]

The guardian druids are.... crazy, while from the brewmaster monks I am a bit surprised how empty it was

[uneven mason]

BrM is not a passionate community

[strong forum]

BRM is just omega math spam

[uneven mason]

Most tanks hate playing BrM

because its 😴

[strong forum]

yeah, nobody really likes brm

most people are playing it cuz theyre forced to

not because they want to

[uneven mason]

its OP in most situations, but its hard to be passionate about a class you can play at 80% efficiency by not pressing any buttons

[kindred crypt]

BrM is not a passionate community

That's what I figured out, waited some hours to get a answer and then got 1 word

[brittle owl]

i mean

just stagger yes?

[uneven mason]

BrM has no theory crafting

because you literally stand there

[strong forum]

Ikari, youd be surprised.

[uneven mason]

and press purify when the bar turns red

[strong forum]

HOW MUCH

[brittle owl]

there is a skill cap to brm

[strong forum]

THEORY CRAFTING

THEY HAVE

[uneven mason]

I mean, I Know Nom

But its a lot of numbers to be like "Yeah, stagger"

[strong forum]

if BrM has 1 thing

then its a theory-crafting-numbers-generation-machine

almost making it seem like a minmax spec

[kindred crypt]

Isn't it?

[brittle owl]

the skill cap to playing brm has nothing to do with minmaxing throughput

[kindred crypt]

Like isn't everyone played brewmaster because you can min-max so good?

[brittle owl]

rather, it has to do with breaking the game

[strong forum]

for dmg, sure, but you dont have to do alot to survive

[kindred crypt]

Playing*

[strong forum]

its a low effort, big return kinda class

[uneven mason]

No most of us run screaming from BrM unless we're being pressured into playing it

[brittle owl]

people played brm bcs its giga safe and strong with the bfa damage model

also

elusive brawler breaks the game

if you're smart

[uneven mason]

yeha

being able to dodge tankbusters OP

controlled dodge

[brittle owl]

(all of the endbosses this expac could be broken by EB)

[kindred crypt]

No most of us run screaming from BrM unless we're being pressured into playing it

I was thinking about playing BrM a short time, but it was like really boring and tiring

[uneven mason]

you get it

[strong forum]

like i said, most people dont want to play brm

but they do because, 1st of all Monk Buff

2nd of all, its just amazing defensively for raiding

but not very exciting to play

[kindred crypt]

I did think about it because the ring of peace would help me in m+ wouldn't it?

[strong forum]

for necrotic and kiting, amazingly yes

[kindred crypt]

But can't help me if I am asleep already

[strong forum]

in S3 RoP was the sole reason why monk was better than prot war

along with getting more value out of the raid trinkets

because of their passive

oh yeah and a bug

actually

[uneven mason]

Imagine in 10.0 they make Spear base kit for warriors

[brittle owl]

bruh

[uneven mason]

🤤

[brittle owl]

s3 brewmaster was omega broken

[uneven mason]

BrM is also insanely strong because of the damn ox in many situations

[brittle owl]

gotox bug, hot trub, RoP

[uneven mason]

since the taunt on the ox

is big range, mobs don't cast at it

[brittle owl]

statue is situational

[kindred crypt]

I played VDH tank this season because it was the only max character I had and I kind of want a tank with more uptime on their defence so I kind of stumbled about prot warrior, I am not wrong here am I?

[strong forum]

well hot trub helped them to compete with warri dmg, slightly and the lance

[brittle owl]

bro

they healed more than bdk/vdh

[uneven mason]

eh, VDH and Pwar both have uptime issues

[brittle owl]

or rather, more effectively

[uneven mason]

with their AM

prot less so than VDH

but VDH is big balls in beta

[kindred crypt]

eh, VDH and Pwar both have uptime issues
Damn, shattered my dreams D:

[strong forum]

VDH is a mitigation gap king, followed by BDK who doesnt even have mitigation

[uneven mason]

BDK is a sad and broken shadow of its Legion self

[brittle owl]

bdk doesn't really fit into an AM discussion

[uneven mason]

crying in a corner somewhere

[brittle owl]

it's less shit than people make it out to be

[kindred crypt]

but VDH is big balls in beta
I don't care about the balls, my best key is a +18 so I am not in the position that my choice of tank is important xD

[uneven mason]

Oh I Know (I play all the tanks)

[brittle owl]

its like comparing sl prot warr to bfa pwarr

ykno

[uneven mason]

Go prot

[strong forum]

Prot pally, Guardian and Monk have 100% uptime on their mitigation tools

[uneven mason]

Monk has infinite uptime

[kindred crypt]

Prot pally, Guardian and Monk have 100% uptime on their mitigation tools

Hmm okay good to know, even tho I am not sure about playing monk, but I can give it a try again

[strong forum]

every tank is fine defensively

its all about how you use your buttons

everybody plays a bit differently to the other

nobody is really comparable

you play 1 more aggressive than the other and so on, honestly just try some out, maybe watching streams/vids can help

[kindred crypt]

I do think about needing to press my defence many times of at least get rid of some damage with it, VDH got a bit to spikey for me on 18's but that can be me who sucks

Of = ore

Or*

Damn, my grammar, my teacher would kill me

[strong forum]

VDH and BDK are spikey by nature, but having that in 18s is kinda early

Monk never spikes, unless its some omega dot / magic hit

[kindred crypt]

To be honest, I don't know if it was me, it just appeared when playing with my heal mate but I can't judge him as long as I am not playing perfectly

[strong forum]

well, i always start with myself, you can almost always play better

[kindred crypt]

As long as I can see mistakes on my side I will and do believe its my fault

[strong forum]

the only time when i look at healers fault is when im ticking out to a dot, when i cant attack anything

[kindred crypt]

An example I can give is like: We never finish Atal Dazar because we die on the damage the honour guards to do the group, such things are the ones we are dying at so I am wondering what I can change

[strong forum]

if youre talking about the 2x honour guard pack infront of Volkaal ( the poison boss) you never do that pack

its just too much damage

[kindred crypt]

We don't do that one

You know the one by the pillar near Volkaal?

[modern brook]

waht about the one infront of the 3rd ob/

yeah dont do that one either

[strong forum]

yeah you dont do that either

[modern brook]

I should be yellow nom smh

[strong forum]

somebody hire this man

[modern brook]

next you'll say

so do i do ob with last boss?

[kindred crypt]

That's what I got told to do, by him and many people, but I see my mistake now, thank you guys

[modern brook]

damn

nevermind

fire me

[strong forum]

if you have a rogue you can do a fancy skip where they pull stuff away

[kindred crypt]

so do i do ob with last boss?

Afaik, you can lure them away with a mage/hunter/whatever and then go into a pillar?

[strong forum]

but generally you do that pillar with last boss

[modern brook]

Afaik, you can lure them away with a mage/hunter/whatever and then go into a pillar?
@kindred crypt anyone willing to die , any night elf, or anyone with some form of threat clear

Hunter mage rogue are the big 3

[kindred crypt]

Pugs don't give you any of these

Even hunters wont

Won't do that*

[modern brook]

I mostly play rogue (im just here to complain im not stormforged); and in my experience most hunters will take it over me even

pugging in the 18-20 range

although i havent played much in prepatch

just gotta ask

"hey HuntMan-Barthalias, can you feign the pack at ob?"

[kindred crypt]

Probably I got the wrong people than at the wrong times but doesn't matter anymore I will just look for a juicy tank in shadowlands and prepare to get shitted on every dungeon

[modern brook]

hell yeah

[kindred crypt]

That enthusiasm, I need if

it*

To be honest, I don't even know why I play a tank, was forced to it once and it way more chilled than dps or heal so I didn't try anything else

[strong forum]

most of us went tank

because the tanks we played with

were shit

[kindred crypt]

It was more like

I was in a guild on a starter server and so they kind of abused me not knowing shit and forced me into playing tanks for raids and dungeons and so

[modern brook]

I learned the game on tank because i joined my friends guild who needed a tank in legion

I eventrually swapped to DPS because watching the absolute 🐒 that is Pug DPS players miss every mechanic that isnt "barely hitting my rotation 75% optimally" was increadibly infuriating

Now i do the same but withe the absolute 🐔 that is pug tank players

its easier watching 1 guy fuck up than 3 tbh

[kindred crypt]

Watching yourself fuck up is the hardest of all

[modern brook]

never happened

I've played flawlessly my entire life

[kindred crypt]

At least one of us

[modern brook]

😏

[kindred crypt]

But rogue looks sick again where I don't need to rely on luck

Where I would get negative results on my dice if possible

Because the only rogue I can play is outlaw xD

[toxic wadi]

Does shield block just block auto attacks, or does it also block physical damage abilities?

[sweet summit]

not all, but most

[toxic wadi]

what does it not block?

does it block physical damage abilities of other classes in pvp, like mortal strike, aimed shot, etc?

[kindred crypt]

How does block work? Does it just reduce your dmg took or does it negate dmg? If I am allowed to ask a thing in between

[strong forum]

it reduces dmg

take it as 2x armor

[kindred crypt]

Ahh okay, thank you

[strong forum]

its armor ontop of armor basically

[kindred crypt]

Like iron fur for druid?

Or Shield thingy for paladin?

[toxic wadi]

and it only blocks melee attacks, not spells (fireball, etc)

[kindred crypt]

Armour doesn't reduce that either, doesn't it? Or am I mentally in the wrong game?

[toxic wadi]

Armor is physical damage reduction

you can see the tooltip in character menu in game

one weakness of prot warrior is magic damage

dh's and dk's deal with magic damage well

[kindred crypt]

Yeah, but I am in bed already and haven't played for some days xD

So I wasn't sure about magic damage reduction

[toxic wadi]

yeah ignore pain and spell reflect are our magic damage mitigation

and help from healers lol

[kindred crypt]

dh's and dk's deal with magic damage well
Yeah, but they don't reduce the damage as good as a warrior so should/could be even

and help from healers lol

Well, yes but no xD

[limpid pawn]

so DH magic mitigation...

i'm looking at these tools here

is it nonexistant other than fiery brand?

[sweet summit]

Self healing

[limpid pawn]

like it's just the raw amount of self heals from using soul cleave

and soul bomb

[sweet summit]

Its mostly consume soul

[strong forum]

spirit bomb

[limpid pawn]

so what about like big ass magic hits

like ilginoth on prog

[sweet summit]

Meta

And fb

And lr

[strong forum]

healing comes from absorbing souls

not from soulcleave

if you play Spirit bomb, you dont use souls on anything other than spirit bomb

oinly do 4-5 soul spirit bombs

also stand still

movement causes souls to be absorbed

which is a dmg loss

[sweet summit]

Why arent souls combopoints yet

🥺

[strong forum]

for big hits, you have FB, and youre a DH, you take 15% less magic dmg by default

[limpid pawn]

took a while but i made a weak aura that has a combopoint type bar for souls

oh, FB is a 1 minute cd

[sweet summit]

Ya but youll still auto consume if you walk on them :/

[uneven mason]

consuming souls by moving when I'm max health is infuriating as VDH

[mellow patio]

Wait did they kill sigil CDR

[limpid pawn]

VDH seems pretty strong for shadowlands

[strong forum]

@sweet summit the power of lucid execute is true

execute window ended perfectly after coral ran out

[limpid pawn]

who here is good with excel

i wanna do something relatively simple, changing the spreadsheet with pacific time to eastern time

[frail blade]

Excel time uses a 24 hour base

so you have to add fractions of a day

to add 3 hour you would do =Ref+3/24

@limpid pawn

[limpid pawn]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/1_HU7Z-oUCNu4MC6gHch26yPa0DMj0SaeEEQsCrCUoHI/htmlview?pru=AAABddzH28Y*CEkJMoDB8MR42grinZfeJg#gid=0

in this one, the formula is strange. i see it for the second cell in the A column

how would I do it?

(in the NA) tab version

[modern brook]

isnt this exact excel already written out with eastern times?

[limpid pawn]

the owner edited it for me

nomeratur, does using spirit bomb heal you for the amount of souls consumed? or no

and the final row talent bulk extraction - does this just suck in existing souls?

[shy yoke]

I haven't tanked +15s since the season ended, is this build good enough or should I change anything?

[mental anchor]

how long does it take last breath of the world breaker to spawn? Like can this not spawn for months?

[sick sentinel]

dose nathanos drop a shield

[frail blade]

No but there is one from a rare in icecrown

[limpid pawn]

kings rest seems bugged

i got stuck just now in the 4 kings room

none of them ever activated

scuffed

@shy yoke You will want storm bolt instead of rumbling earth, dragons roar instead of booming voice, ravager instead of unstoppable force, and bolster instead of anger management

friendship with thunderclap has ended bro, new best friend is ravager

[shy yoke]

:O thanks for that info, need to try that build, yeh I can't just say good bye to thunderclap :c

[kindred crypt]

@shy yoke You will want storm bolt instead of rumbling earth, dragons roar instead of booming voice, ravager instead of unstoppable force, and bolster instead of anger management
@limpid pawn why Dragon roar and not booming voice?

[civic rover]

because roar

[kindred crypt]

Hm

[short shore]

does bastion of might stack?

[civic rover]

yes

[short shore]

sweet

[civic rover]

stack that shit

[crude gulch]

did they buff our the threat per damage?

[civic rover]

all the tanks got threat buffs

[crude gulch]

Nice

[modern brook]

@limpid pawn why Dragon roar and not booming voice?
@kindred crypt at 15s the burst damage is better cause shit melys

Sorry for the ping brollik

[ionic fern]

🤔

[kindred crypt]

Hmm okay, thank you :3

[modern brook]

Mwahi thinking face makes me qualify with imo

[ionic fern]

😂

[lunar perch]

Is Ravager a better choice over Unstoppable Force?

[ionic fern]

No harm in running Dragon Roar, it's solid.
But the same goes for BV - it is the better defensive choice, will generate more rage, and still be competitive in DPS.

[modern brook]

Ravager

[kindred crypt]

No harm in running Dragon Roar, it's solid.
But the same goes for BV - it is the better defensive choice, will generate more rage, and still be competitive in DPS.
The rage was the reason I was thinking about BV and Icy Veins said the same, so I was sure BV is it

[ionic fern]

Currently you can run which ever playstyle you prefer more @lunar perch .
Once SL comes around chances are you will be "stuck" with Ravager so might want to start practicing now.

😂

[lunar perch]

Yup! I'm more used to Ravager actually

thanks for the tip

[modern brook]

The rage was the reason I was thinking about BV and Icy Veins said the same, so I was sure BV is it
@kindred crypt I also fully believe b will be better the later we go into the expac