WW was more before they changed how fall-off damage worked.
Before Revenge damage fell off after 1st enemy. Now it's after 5.
#protection
ionic fern
fringe marten
ugh WTF; unless there's itemization that does something amazing for whirlwind yeah..it's literally trash for prot.
ionic fern
OFc it is.
Feels bad. Could have given us back some more interesting things instead. 😒
Where my stances at.
lusty grotto
/cast [help, @mouseover, exists] Intervene; Charge
we're never getting skull banner back
lusty grotto
that's what im using
fringe marten
They literally said we were getting banners back didn't they? and instead turned it into an AOE taunt.
(which was challenging banner)
fringe marten
...
was doing
/cast [@mouseover,exists,nodead,noharm] Intervene; [@target] Charge for the charge portions of that macro
lusty grotto
ima remove mouseover cause i hate it
fringe marten
why?
lusty grotto
idk i can do mouseover on heals but sometims i have my mouse somewhere i dont want it to be
rather deal with targets
sweet summit
Only thing u use mouseover for is execute and intervene 😎
sweet summit
Nah bruv focus target
lusty grotto
def on arenas
fringe marten
I had that issue for a bit with my leap being macrod in with it...I'd often charge at something or intervene to a raid member; I literally had to just learn to be conscious with my cursor.
ionic fern
Never PvP, never use PvP trinkets, never F.
fringe marten
what PVP trinkets were you utilizing?
fringe marten
I pvp'd enough to get all the essences (as prot btw) but not sure which one you mean?
ionic fern
They removed the allied race reputation requierment with prepatch right?
lusty grotto
fringe marten
2's with me and a rando...was cancerous.
lusty grotto
i cant remember the one
name
on use pretty much
relentless was the passive one
that reduced time on cc
then there was the other that activated by itself which was crap
adaptation, medallion and relentless
relentless reduced cc time by 20%
medallion was on use
adaptation activated by itself which i never used
it was mostly Medallion, and swap to relentless on certain comps
@ionic fern should i stay haste versa?
like should i destroy everything else?
or sell
or will crit come out on top again due to parries
fringe marten
Likely will shift when we dig into shadowlands proper. We will lose the huge mastery boost we're gaining from azerite traits through avatar...=(
lusty grotto
ah shit that's true
ionic fern
Nothing has changed regarding stats tho.
Ilvl has just become even more important due to Vangard.
lusty grotto
kk
fringe marten
Didn't the Str vs armor conversation get toned down?
wasn't it boosted to 120% later in bfa?
fringe marten
I remember they boosted vanguard ..was it with the azshara update?
ionic fern
JEah, now it's up to 100%.
Which by itself is another scaling issue just waiting to happen.
sweet summit
S C A L I N G 📈
soft kindle
Stop taking my meme
sweet summit
What
soft kindle
sweet summit
😎
soft kindle
ionic fern
regal tree
stop SCALING guys, lets slam
still pagoda
soft kindle
Prot doesn't scale special right
still pagoda
topaz ember
brittle owl
brittle owl
regal tree
brittle owl
Prot owns
@sweet summit very positive
regal tree
btw never search SCALING in youtube 😄
sweet summit
soft kindle
Prot doesn't scale special right
@sweet summit
brittle owl
lmao weird vids i can creep people with
sweet summit
Well will the recent vanguard buffs, we will end up with a lot of armor as we get more and more mainstat if you wanna call that scaling
Running around with more armor than a druid with one iron fur stack is kinda cool
brittle owl
or slightly less armor than a paladin with sotr
regal tree
Well we still lack in other thing like MAGIC
soft kindle
Didn't think so but wanted to make sure
brittle owl
ionic fern
I think i had like 60% DR from armor on PTR yesterday when i checked. 😂
soft kindle
really annoying when you tell someone they're wrong but turns out you are 
ionic fern
Just turn it around with the "I knew that..i was just testing you".
sweet summit
ionic fern
THat's how i got TC.
brittle owl
@regal tree just in case you're actually serious about that, magic is damage is rarely an issue
ionic fern
sweet summit
Literally cheating the system
regal tree
Well i remember how KR was
brittle owl
there's 3 encounters in bfa where magic damage is an issue for tanks
zul and last 2 bosses ML
brittle owl
guess what, you can cheese rixxa with SR, so that's just 2 encounters left
sweet summit
We're doomed
still pagoda
brittle owl
where magic damage is something you should take note of
oh and i guess last boss workshop?
soft kindle
zul 🙂
sweet summit
Yeah p1 king mechagon
brittle owl
i just said that
sweet summit
Kinda slaps
brittle owl
but there's always ways to deal with it
still pagoda
p1 king mecha is a bootleg zul
sweet summit
Yep
still pagoda
Just with appropriate amount of damage instead of zul's shit
sweet summit
But you also have blob on there
still pagoda
I don't want to do KR ever again
sweet summit
Still need the mount from kr zzzz
brittle owl
who's ready for mage tears
warm plinth
@lusty grotto whatchu want
lavish oracle
Vanguard feels absolutely absurd, right now
sweet summit
still pagoda
Just as everyone predicted
Also
No awakened
Get ready for cheesy strats with rogues and hunters
fringe marten
Hunters being given a stealth cloak?
fringe marten
well death runs were already a thing if you could coordinate a quick battle rez/etc...death runs were doable with a lot of class comps...including having a prot warrior who could just run/charge through stuff and use cd's to live long enough for people to invis pot to position. I was hoping they would do away with essentially needing 1 class for good M+ progression.
The awakened affix/concept was so good I thought they would surely keep it in some form or another.
still pagoda
They decided to scrap it
fringe marten
I don't want to form too many opinions before I simply get to dive into shadowlands proper. I want to 'try' and stay hopeful for something I'm committing to playing for the next year or two... =\
still pagoda
SL dungeon design doesn't have much place for skips though
fringe marten
(I'm not up in arms about covenants/etc because the power balance shifts, tuning always occurs every raid tier etc. we're all going to just go with what's best..regardless of how 'bad' it is. Literally nothing stops me from playing prot warrior regardless of any balance issues.)
fringe marten
Literally no pun was intended...but you can have it if you want it LOL.
I'm gonna' deal with whatever systems they put in place; the power balance is irrelevant I'm not a player pushing for world first races. I just want it to be fun enough..that my guild sticks around for the duration and WoW is enjoyable to log into because people want to do SOMETHING.
pliant narwhal
anyone has an intervene / charge macro?
still pagoda
@fringe marten you need the game to be balanced and working for this to happen
fringe marten
No, yes.
still pagoda
Otherwise you'll be stuck in a mess where half of specs won't even do any damage
fringe marten
The game is never balanced..but of course I assume you mean somewhat 'attempted' to be balanced. But yes it has to WORK. and that means more than just not having login issues...the systems vs the gameplay has to be enjoyable.
I only play prot, and branch into arms or fury when my prot is approaching or at the 'can't improve' mark..in gear/etc.
I only care about prot really.
sweet summit
#showtooltip Charge
/cast [target=mouseover,help,exists,nodead]Intervene;Intervene
/cast [target=target,harm,exists,nodead]Charge;Charge
@pliant narwhal
pliant narwhal
thanks !
fringe marten
So that's why for 'balance' I'm not super concerned..tank balance has been pretty good and even when it's BAD I deal with it. (was doing cutting edge in Legion when warriors were being melted by all the magic damage in that 'tower' raid zone..IE that bridge boss)
BUT; if it's shattered for everyone else and they aren't having fun..then yeah it collapses for me as well.
still pagoda
You're overcomplicating that a bit. The thing is: systems are a part of gameplay nowadays. You're really going over the board whebln saying that you don't care for balance, while in reality, it will affect you a lot in case something is completely broken and can't do shit.
And also, warri magic mitigation was always good with SR. And especially back in Legion. Utilize your CDs to maximum and you won't have any problems
Balancing issues are huge for dps if not solved
fringe marten
LOL I get how to tank..but there was a time when the disparity between me tanking and my cotank (a bear at the time) was unreal. He was just an unkillable pudgeball and that bridge boss took careful CD management and heavy healing to survive.
fringe marten
But anyway; my point being is that if the game is fun..if the content is spaced out enough to keep people playing and having fun for the majority of the expansion I can fully forgive any balance/etc issues. (You KNOW they will be there, you know they will..with all the borrowed power systems, there's no chance there isn't)
still pagoda
Krosus was a fun fight and a dps check whos hard enrage was a cause of a lot of wipes for many guilds
Main problem on him was dps
If you couldn't keep up with your co-tank, it's your own problem
And a problem in your gameplay
Not class
fringe marten
Right..the mongo dps who wouldn't switch to the orbs and soak/etc as the bridge collapsed.
You realize this was both before the spell reflect change and when they added BACK damage (they removed after the first 2 weeks of legion) to ignore pain...
still pagoda
You've misunderstood this. DPS check(meaning the time you have to kill the boss before hard enrage wipe that requires certain dps amount) was the main issue
fringe marten
If you were at krosus early in the curve there was no 'skill' that would overcome the fact that bears were taking magic damage MUCH smoother and much easier than warriors were. Bears were so OP blizzard flat admitted it and said SO many guilds were relying on them for progression they wouldn't retune them.
still pagoda
Once people figured out how to get to soaking fast, it became apparent that dps is the main issue
fringe marten
DPS is always the issue man?
still pagoda
Are you even reading? HARD ENRAGE WITH TIGHT TIMER
fringe marten
After you get your hands on a fight for a few times..the tanks know their roles, the healers do their thing...the mong DPS is literally the entire rest of the learning/execution curve.
Yeah..we killed him..I get it ?
(? done talking to him..he's literally having another conversation)
Knowing...KNOWING there will be class imbalance, dps will whine about what is OP and what isn't, knowing tanks won't be 'perfectly' balanced NONE of that matters to me. If the game is just enjoyable enough people log in and stay subbed..I can forgive ANY of the imbalances that effect the class I play. If it's not, and problematic (for whatever reasons) enough that people start dropping off like they did half way through BFA...then instead of sticking it out through bfa like I did; I'll just abandon wow early. Is really my only point here.
If you are so competitive that you will unsub because your 'thing' isn't doing well. THen you are an idiot for simply not changing and playing the FOTM class like ALL the competitive players do.
still pagoda
So you don't care for people getting benched simply because their class's specs don't work
fringe marten
I'm not in a guild like that
We will do our mythic prog..we'll clear the raid..it will be behind the world leading guilds...and? I'm cool with that.
Guilds who will bench players based on relative power between class specs (and NOT personal performance) because they demand such a high level of character performance..because they are that competitive; that's on them..and more power to them if they want to push THAT hard. I don't hate on that; but I'm also not a part of an organization like that.
still pagoda
Mate. Do you understand the difference between "doesn't work" and "undertuned"?
If blizz are to release SL in a state with horrible balancing, you will see a lot of specs underperforming to the point your guild will bench people
fringe marten
Yes; and depending on how quick blizzard is on their fixes I do understand that if a spec really is performing so poorly it 'doesn't work' they do get around to fixing it; but not quickly generally.
Again..no the guild won't bench anyone...not for a class being 'bad' if someone plays like trash; yes it will happen.
still pagoda
I'm out. Don't have much time to watch someone saying they don't care about balancing issues. If you're up to looking at double the difference in dps between specs and some being completely not working, go on. You will have "fun" in such environment
It's a MMO, not your single player rpg
fringe marten
Gosh..it's like this has never happened before; and there weren't ridiculously strong DPS builds compared to much weaker ones (even if played well). I don't remember the mage in my guild crying every day over not getting his 'bracer' or whatever it was in legion that was the defining legendary for them.. This happens..EVERY. SINGLE. EXPANSION.
If you think it won't...why? It's definitely going to.
This happens every raid tier just about..not even just at expansion launches.
The balance disparity is a bigger issue when the content isn't as enjoyable. Legion had the same issues but because the expansion was so much better recieved..people just kept playing anyway.
brittle owl
if something is anecdotally true that doesn't mean it's normal or that it should be expected
🤷♂️
fringe marten
So I'm trying to go into shadowlands without reading too much into complaints about borrowed power balance..because I'm going into shadowlands no matter what.
still pagoda
And if something is not working, it doesn't mean blizz should forget about it because someone like you spergs out that YOU don't care
brittle owl
but a discussion is kinda moot when you've adopted an absolute stance, is it not?
fringe marten
And so are most of us...so going in with a pitchforks and torches raised..ready to riot over issues that are nearly ALWAYS present at expansion launch...well? You're setting yourself up to hate it and quit.
brittle owl
not really
fringe marten
Yeah malekenar...crazy it goes for both sides.
brittle owl
scrutinizing flaws is what feedback is made of
while i do agree thst circlejerking around issues is kinda silly
fringe marten
Yeah and blizzard is a CHAMPION of listening to feedback and quickly acting on it.
Right?
brittle owl
that isnt really relevant is it?
still pagoda
That sperg level comment is not relevant here
Blizz are doing their best to address the feedback this time around
And it can be seen
fringe marten
Kind of...depends on what side of the 'balance' you're on isn't it? Kartons argument ultimately is his enjoyment is effected highly by balance..if he suffers negatively from it; and can't progress with his guild/etc.
still pagoda
If you don't care, you can go on and continue your delusional thinking that everything will be great
fringe marten
So if you're the busted 'doesn't work' class than blizzrds speed at fixing it matters a lot.
If you're busted 'OP'...then you get to enjoy that for a while.
fringe marten
Sure; I'll take that if it'll stop it.
sweet summit
There are too many words someone give a tldr
Unless its just ranting and venting
brittle owl
ranting and venting for the most part
fringe marten
Karton simply just can't let his side of it go; when ultimately I don't care about his opinion on it because it's about something I don't care about.
sweet summit
Ah ok
brittle owl
sensible discourse was lost some time ago
fringe marten
But he feels if he acquiesces that he 'loses' or something?
So..I'm dumb, you win. yay.
still pagoda
Just as i ultimately care for balance and for specs to work. What also made Legion good? All specs worked. Some were undertuned, but you could do really good on them too
Ingorance of issues is what i despise
fringe marten
(yes maelkenar when I made a comment about hoping it would be fun..and willing to forgive balance issues if people just stay and play...then he turned it into "do you know what doesn't work means..and bad dps get benched. Which had nothing to do with me simply saying "hope the expansion is fun..I know it won't be balanced.")
still pagoda
The problem is: while you might think you can forgive balance issues, in reality you can't
brittle owl
i mean at this point, imma let you bois have your wordycuffs , i completely lost interest
fringe marten
You think everything will work at launch? It didn't in any expansion I can remember...was everying balanced either? no. So things not working (ie your doesn't work comment) are going to happen. Imbalance will happen.. None of it matters if it's decent enough to stay through it; because in time it's all addressed and changes.
fringe marten
The thing he's talking about will happen; the only issue is does it happen to HIM.
still pagoda
Does it happen to everybody. As to me, my guild is the community i care about. And if someone can't play their favourite class because it can't even do the simplest content(or is trash-tier in raid. Hello, sub rogues after the nerf), it is already an issue with the game.
Tank balance was always good with some outliers here and there like warri for most of BfA and bear in Legion(another example is WoD pala). But with DPS and healers, it is a much more intricate thing and should never be ignored
fringe marten
Yup..I know. Don't care 'cause I don't play it... Only effects me if it bothers them enough to quit. IE they're not enjoying it...ya' know..the thing I said a long time ago.
still pagoda
sweet summit
...
sweet summit
#showtooltip Charge
/cast [target=mouseover,help,exists,nodead]Intervene;Intervene
/cast [target=target,harm,exists,nodead]Charge;Charge
Take this and keep not reading
unborn wren
i generally dont spoiler myself with beta stuff at all
it's much more fun seeing the finished product
and let people who can provide feedback during beta do that
going to be interesting figuring out where i can add all these new abilities to my rotation
sweet summit
Whirlwind is bad
brittle owl
shattering throw is the highest impact ability we get
still pagoda
^
brittle owl
o, also execute
rigid edge
Thanks for that Macro Erga, saved me the trouble haha
sweet summit
👌
orchid frigate
nah didnt work for me
think it tries to log you in on tukui.org
but might get the files from github idk
thin pecan
Anyone else using the new preach ui?
brittle owl
thin pecan
Whoops sorry!
real orchid
Anyone got a charge/intervene macro?
so annoyed that they split this
nevermind, I created and seems to work fairly welll
#showtooltip Intervene
/cast [@mouseover,harm,nodead] Charge;
/cast [@mouseover,help,nodead] Intervene;
/cast [@target] Charge
crude pond
Making a macro is not annoying, but their cooldowns being splitted is
still pagoda
Track both
@crude pond https://wago.io/j-xg2L49s
From our buddy Titania in #ui-addons-manager
crude pond
Thanks, but since I don't have wa, I can't see what it even looks like.. could you please decribe how it works?
crude pond
Nevermind, it now shows on the website, thanks a lot!
steep bone
Not having WA 
steep bone
Tmw 
crude pond
Yeah I use TMW
still pagoda
I've used TMW back in 7.0-7.1
steep bone
Ive used tmw in cata
still pagoda
When i have only been starting my raiding endeavours
crude pond
I made my own, have been using it for ages and am too lazy to port it to WA
pliant narwhal
what are the best talents for the actual mplus content ? i cant decide
elder isle
my into the fray is bugged and always on even if not talented , pogchamp
sick sentinel
only reason i liked bubble bobble was because of the happy music and graphics
I don't think it's possible to find this song too horrible to listen to
ionic fern
what are the best talents for the actual mplus content ? i cant decide
@pliant narwhal Icy-Veins and WoWHead guides are both up to date.
sick sentinel
what class though lol
i'm prot warrior personally, i got a shitload of characters, they just not all at 50
strong forum
Yooo bubble bobble holy shit I played that in kindergarden
sweet summit
1986
sick sentinel
this is specifically only tetris to my knowledge, but i had one very very similar
or same, bit bulkier transparent purple i think, but yeah, you were cool kid if u had one in those day
rigid edge
Remember the old Game&Watch?
craggy harness
1986? I remember the LCD games
One in particular, like snoopy tennis
This looks about right
chortle Wide screen
stable flower
How is prot feeling after the pre patch?
sweet summit
Solid
stable flower
Debating between war, paladin and DH for SL
stable flower
And out of the dps specs fury seems the most fun
craggy harness
using fury in world pvp or still arms?
woven radish
Devastator was weird getting used to, but now after a few dungeons I low key love it. Super chill and methodical style now planning CD's while waiting for procs
I dig it
glacial ridge
i do like devastator, i get enough carpal tunnel from fury
flip side ive seen people bind devastate to scroll wheel lol
ebon geyser
So is probably because idk what I'm doing or im too new but I cant point out whats the difference between using ravager and AM /HR/bolster
Like I dont get why to pick certain talents
glacial ridge
well Ravager is on a different line to the others
glacial ridge
its all about them working together
UF with AMsynergises because Avatar becomes your powerhouse key
sweet summit
you dont need AM to play UF
ebon geyser
So for someone that is gonna alt this and wanna get their feet wet in m+ and some light raiding like normal/heroic
sweet summit
you can still play UF and Bolster
crude pond
I'm kinda getting an impression that BV vs DragonRoar is just like the old BV vs Devastator - one being more defensive, the other more offensive. Am I right?
sweet summit
BV is more rage, DR is more snap threat/aoe nuke(?)
glacial ridge
you dont NEED any lol like i said they just synergise
sweet summit
i know
glacial ridge
yeh im agreeing with you for others
agile stag
ravager feels fun, but its too much to give up for the clap talent
ebon geyser
I just wanna be tanky until I get the hang again of the class
But ravager looks cool but I know is more offensive
agile stag
also devastator feels weird AF. what im supposed to bind to 1 xd
sweet summit
/dance
crude pond
you never used devastator before?
crude pond
was it??
sweet summit
was great for ST dps all of BFA wdym
agile stag
yeah
glacial ridge
lol my dev is 4 and im tapping away like a madlad
ebon geyser
Lol
brittle owl
dragon roar is poop damej
sweet summit
u r poop
agile stag
ye bra boomer voice is big
ebon geyser
Anyone did raid last night NA folks and can tell me how you felt
glacial ridge
boomie voice is the shit
brittle owl
@sweet summit
sweet summit
:/
agile stag
i think dragon roar is for children
agile stag
pls gib damej )
sweet summit
i am losing braincells every time you say something
glacial ridge
^
brittle owl
which one of us
agile stag
Idk what im gonna tell my m+ team. i tried shadow priest and it feels so good makes me wanna main ot
sweet summit
yes
empty locust
I raided, felt pretty solid
ebon geyser
I just need to practice on it,was getting dc to much last nite
glacial ridge
just follow a build posted on Wowhead if youre only doing low M+ raid and youll be fine, im sure Marok would be working on the IcyVeins version
glacial ridge
ahh i c correction. I do remember seeing army mentioned somewhere
sweet summit
and im pretty sure IV is updated for pre-patch too
glacial ridge
OK last time i chacked IV it was just levelling builds etc
sweet summit
yeah IV is updated 
glacial ridge
OK there you go, sorry im at work on mobile
ebon geyser
So mwahi is our fearless leader now
sweet summit
always has been 🔫
sick sentinel
still pagoda
orchid frigate
?
lusty grotto
morning you filthy EUers
sweet summit
gm nim
glacial ridge
lol
orchid frigate
"fy fan"
still pagoda
orchid frigate
"its dont called intercept anymore!"
lusty grotto
lel
orchid frigate
i love watch top players when theyre confused
lusty grotto
or they just play dumb so people just "correct" them
glacial ridge
whats he running ? UF/AM?
strong forum
TFW you log into prepatch
and you dont have to edit any UI things
only add like 2 buttons
god UI creator here ama
glacial ridge
screw you lol, as soon as i logged in it was bugsack going off its tits FATALITY!
every 3 seconds
orchid frigate
yes @glacial ridge
strong forum
only stuff i have is addonskins not working yet
orchid frigate
with punish
strong forum
orchid frigate
my foreskin isnt working send help
lusty grotto
azilroka basically made no keys work when i got in last night lol
sweet summit
glacial ridge
yeh azilroka will be updated in the next couple of days
orchid frigate
been watching some keys today and it seems like havoc is a bit gutted?
glacial ridge
*ignoring foreskin comment 😛 *
still pagoda
strong forum
doesnt seem like it
lusty grotto
trusty companion of Chef Nimchip
brittle owl
that actually looks pretty dope nome
lusty grotto
the first chef ever
brittle owl
chest kinda sucks tho
strong forum
chest is perfect fit with weapon and tusks
brittle owl
trustycrusty companion of Chef Nimchip
strong forum
legs perfectly fit with gloves and shield
brittle owl
yeah but make the chest look out of place/stand out more than it should
strong forum
eh not really
brittle owl
yes really
strong forum
lusty grotto
lmao
strong forum
really doesnt stand out
brittle owl
that looks decent cause you can see the side thingies
still pagoda
brittle owl
from the front it's jarring
strong forum
your mum is jarring from the front
lusty grotto
i have identified the problem
brittle owl
with a mullet to boot
lusty grotto
youre welcome everybody
mellow patio
brittle owl
mulletRATur
lusty grotto
ENHANCE
strong forum
slim pier
what did i just get into
strong forum
long beard
lusty grotto
ENHANCE
strong forum
confirmed
slim pier
damn furries
lusty grotto
jesus it looks like tukui's servers are being ass pounded right now
mellow patio
Eyepatch and fish BiS
lusty grotto
its Stewarts brother ya hawgz
mellow patio
Yeah that’s Liam
mellow patio
brittle owl
viral garden
Do we have info on if it's worth it to wait for auto attacks to see if devastator resets shield slam before casting another ability in the prepatch now?
lusty grotto
dont wait
mellow patio
Paying enough attention to know when autos happen
still pagoda
leveling a pala
mellow patio
mellow patio
Paladins are DUMB reeeeeeee
sweet summit
yes, you
brittle owl
@still pagoda
sweet summit
@sweet summit
brittle owl
@sweet summit @still pagoda
brittle owl
lusty grotto
lol naowh playing punish
orchid frigate
oh ghostcrawler coming back
strong forum
well you can play both punish and deva
brittle owl
inb4 9.2 gives punish leggo
strong forum
that'd be big
pastel sleet
i have a 5 stack of ITF even though im not talented into it
sweet summit
i only have one 😔
pastel sleet
why do i have it? bug?
sweet summit
yeah
pastel sleet
lol
50% haste feels nice
if i was capable of 20s in 8.3, what should i be able to do in 9..0
sweet summit
as in prepatch?
pastel sleet
yes
sweet summit
20s i think? i honestly have no idea
pastel sleet
okay
analog zinc
/cast [@mouseover,mod:alt,nodead,exists] Intervene
/cast Charge```
This seem like a good charge/intercept macro?
It casts intervene on mouseover when you hold alt, & casts charge otherwiseyeah that one works
altho you could replace the "mod:alt" with "help" and you wont need to hold alt to use intervene
modern brook
what talents/traits were u using nom?
lilac quail
Do we still like the Thunder Clap build, or does it look like we're going to revenge or shield slam?
mellow patio
TC build still works well and still feels good, but you lose out on a lot of block uptime
still pagoda
^
it will probably be bis for low keys and shite
as it still boasts incredible damage
strong forum
this is what i was using
î should do Gathering storm tho
now that i think about it
lusty grotto
uhhh...
lusty grotto
lmao
stark sage
strong forum
actually if anyone can find 3x GS + 3x CR thats prolly the absolute best
lusty grotto
lolll
sweet summit
any shoulders?
modern brook
î should do Gathering storm tho
@strong forum I asked cause i was trying it
couldnt tell if it was me being shit
or if it was just underwhelming
strong forum
well if youre playing AM bom is gonna be better
modern brook
I will say i think the DC is a trap - without UF you dont the stomps to maintain Shout in a meaningful way
imo
strong forum
if youre not gonna play AM GS will be better
grand drum
what if i have 3GS 3 BoM
modern brook
thats what i did :/
strong forum
well you can play that
but DC has great defensive value
i can play 3x bom 3x gs too obv
wild sandal
we can bladestorm as prot?
grand drum
ravage counts as bladestorm
wild sandal
ah thanks was really looking for it on my spellbook for 5 min
modern brook
does DC still have good defensive value when you're only adding 4 seconds to shout?
nevrmind i cant count
you still hit the 6s cap
cursive hedge
should I switch back to Haste from Vers now that corruption is gone?
modern brook
you should never have gone verse 😠
[joking]
Im psure the defensive stat prio rn is haste<verse<mast<crit
m+ makes crit better by a lot, haste still the best
cursive hedge
haha i forgot this discord hates vers
modern brook
its not that i hate verse its that TD is right there.
strong forum
its not that vers is hated, its just unnecessary in 99% of content
cursive hedge
but those of us doing keys over 20 regularly needed it 😛
strong forum
25*
cursive hedge
agreed that everything else it's not necessary
lusty grotto
haste was always kind of top
cursive hedge
nah, haste was bad past 20
strong forum
lmao
modern brook
the bigger issue with Verse stacking is that you start doing it when you need it.
undone sun
it's not a definite line when people switch to vers, it's subjective
modern brook
which meant that you can def start stacking verse at like 15s
lusty grotto
even with high versa pieces you prio'd that it had haste
modern brook
but that be definition means you're playing the spec poorly
"just play better" becomes "just get more verse"
steep bone
warrior ded yet?
strong forum
yup
undone sun
saying this channel dislikes vers is overgeneralizing and asinine
strong forum
no vers
undone sun
uninformed
cursive hedge
@undone sun look at this response
lusty grotto
if you have big haste small versa item >>> big versa item small haste now
cursive hedge
it's not uninformed at all lol
I think people here just like wowhead guides. i get it
lusty grotto
we dont
steep bone
if you have versa item > delete
sweet summit
i prefer the IV one 
steep bone
if you have no versa item > equip
lusty grotto
youre talking out of your ass Rodek
maybe make a claim other than just spout nonsense
cursive hedge
what nonsense?? I asked a simple question and people immediately start shitting on vers
lusty grotto
nah, haste was bad past 20
lusty grotto
im guessing you meant before pre patch
sweet summit
ilvl>haste
last mason
with the reduced demo uptime, is booming voice really still that much bbetter than other talents o nthe row
namely bsc
strong forum
BSC is unplayable
sweet summit
BV is great, good aoe damage increase and a lot of free rage
undone sun
people only started jumping on you when you generalized the dislike towards vers, which is blatantly false
last mason
oh so bsc is still just undertuned
lusty grotto
nobody hates vers
strong forum
BV offers the most rage on the row, DR is a good option next to BV
lusty grotto
we all had versa sets
cursive hedge
I've observed a general dislike of vers and a preference for haste and TD in this channel
lusty grotto
but we didnt use them for sub 24 keys
strong forum
because its universally better
cursive hedge
I'm not making a statement that every single person in this channel agrees with that
strong forum
and Vers stacking starts only becoming attractive for 23+ keys
lusty grotto
I've observed a general dislike of vers and a preference for haste and TD in this channel
well that's false
cursive hedge
you have zealots that are very passionate about haste in here. that's all im saying
sweet summit
because we've had a lot of people come here that stack vers unnecessarily and its just a running meme now
strong forum
outside of that niche its not optimal
undone sun
I'm not making a statement that every single person in this channel agrees with that
@cursive hedge https://puu.sh/GCYRP/a653a327ef.png
lusty grotto
because haste. is. better. now.
cursive hedge
yes. im not talking about now
lusty grotto
do you need math?
lofty widget
mastery when?
cursive hedge
i agree with that
steep bone
i remember we had a guy here
cursive hedge
I've already switched to haste
sweet summit
when BoM 🦀
steep bone
almost insulting people for saying that vers is bad
probs snitch from /r/competetivewow
lusty grotto
again, most of us had versa sets for 24+ keys
modern brook
🤷♂️ i dont think anyone said verse is bad
lusty grotto
so how could we hate versa
modern brook
Just that you dont need it
strong forum
Haste is the best stat because of the increased rage generation ontop of lowered CDs, ontop of having played AM in BFA which further increased your Cooldown Reduction the more rage you spend, thus giving you access to more CDs.
Even in BFA thats true for 99% of content
and keep in mind this is a public forum
not a "high pusher only" discord
lusty grotto
^
strong forum
its not wrong to talk about vers stacking if you use it in the right context
there were enough memes about people being declined in low baby keys (22 and lower ) because they didnt run vers corruptions because they leader was misinformed
lusty grotto
id imagine, because i wasnt as active, that people were told not to go versa as a "fits all" kind of thing if they were doing keys that were 15 or so - and this is generally how it should go
mellow patio
Nah vers stacking was, is, and always will be for huge nerds
lusty grotto
Hawgz and Liam
modern brook
no change it back
mellow patio
Never :^)
undone sun
modern brook
also hey nim welcome back how was not-classic?
clever bronze
I hate talent set addons for a variety of reasons, so I made a small addon that lets me write down talent info in lieu of constantly googling the same basic info. Does this sound accurate for prepatch based on the guides?
https://i.imgur.com/TTf8U2f.png
strong forum
HR doesnt offer DMG
clever bronze
It doesn't?
strong forum
Punish and Deva are both Viable
sweet summit
doesnt it increase SS dam anymore?
strong forum
no
clever bronze
That's right, it's just rage.
Which could be spent on damage
Although more consistent Shield Block uptime would mean more of that Shield Slam damage increase, right?
strong forum
i wouldnt call that more dmg, id just say HR Viable
both BV and DR are viable
one doesnt need TGV to play BV
DR isnt "best" in pre-patch both are perfectly fine
civic rover
what's the general consensus so far for talents on the last row?
clever bronze
I was just going off of "probably superior"
https://i.imgur.com/WSGsyim.png
mellow patio
@civic rover I’m playing bolster because as you get to higher m+ in shadowlands it’s going to be the play imo
clever bronze
So does that mean for the most part, these talents are just a choice in playstyle?:
- Punish and Devastator
- BV and DR
- HR and Bolster
Like, they're closely balanced enough it's more about flavor?
lusty grotto
im playing AM atm
civic rover
yeah anger management just doesn't feel worth rn
like yeah more avatar uptime is gamer but idk
lusty grotto
just for that saucy wall
clever bronze
I would think HR would get a leg-up because it means you get to keep Last Stand as an extra cooldown.
mellow patio
HR is meh
strong forum
civic rover
HR doesn't look too awful
strong forum
id say this
civic rover
idk i'm just gonna play around with stuff rn
clever bronze
Does HR and Devastate have natural synergy, where like if you pick one you kinda want the other?
lusty grotto
and probably swap between Bolster
mellow patio
UF makes avatar more satisfying
clever bronze
This good?
https://i.imgur.com/4oLyDYQ.png
sweet summit
ya
civic rover
@strong forum how does ravager feel?
mellow patio
Yes you have rage out the ass
clever bronze
bigg ragee
mellow patio
So much that you mash revenge lmao
lusty grotto
youre not looking for a one size fits all thing Anase right?
cause
legendaries will factor in
clever bronze
If anyone wants to use my shitty addon, just throwing it out there. Talent sets suck for me because I don't like having to make tons of combinations of sets, I'd rather just know how to use each row.
EDIT: Also, I don't know how to fix it, but on login, you gotta open and close the talent window a couple times to get the frames to properly show/hide.
lusty grotto
you play a class long enough you dont need annotations 😛
clever bronze
@lusty grotto Mostly just getting most of the current metas in place for my notes so I only have to make small adjustments later. I suspect tuning and balance and what-not will be a thing, but at least my notes no longer say "XYZ talent is best" when it's not because it's on an entirely new row.
clever bronze
@lusty grotto I'm an altoholic.
clever bronze
I'm also pretty casual. My high end is mid-level keys and heroic raiding, which I wanna start getting more into in SL because life kinda fucked me through different sections of Legion and most of BFA.
mellow patio
Alliance 🤮
civic rover
hey, alliance might not have tauren, but they have dorfs and pandas
mellow patio
I’d say devastator is viable with or without HR
modern brook
has anyone tried Callous reprisal with new meaty revenge?
mellow patio
It’s a sick meme lmao
lusty grotto
i dont know if theres a set meta right now
so im not sure of your notes
honestly its more open than anything
clever bronze
That's a pretty nice feeling, tbh.
modern brook
hard agree. at least for right now it feels like we have a lot of flex points
sick sentinel
Hello guys, i was just wondering, how is prot warrior looking in shadowlands, may level it
clever bronze
I do like having some guidelines for now, though.
modern brook
esp compared to the BFA
ionic fern
Idk, Avatar with triple BoM is still super good unless you actually NEED the block uptime from bolster.
modern brook
where our talent tree only existed to bait people
I really like AM/UF/BV/Indom
its a shitty version of the feed back loop we've been playing for 2 years
clever bronze
I used to be 3 BoM but now I'm sitting on 3 BFI, 1 BoM
ionic fern
I'd much rather play AM than HR in m+. 🤷
If i need more defensive value i'd just take Bolster.
modern brook
^hard agree
lusty grotto
yeah im sticking with AM for Avatar
clever bronze
I really liked Devastator + HR in Legion, even more when people eventually figured out using the Devastator macro was a waste of time and I could finally delete it, and just enjoy the free-er GCDs.
chilly brook
Assuming you're going defensive
ionic fern
Yep.
ionic fern
Hello guys, i was just wondering, how is prot warrior looking in shadowlands, may level it
@sick sentinel different than it was in BfA from gameplay PoV but still solid. 🙂
chilly brook
Since HR is so rng dependent
lusty grotto
once we lose our BoMs though
clever bronze
That's why I assumed HR and Devastate have good synergy. More SS resets = more SB uptime.
chilly brook
No
lusty grotto
nah
clever bronze
I mean, isn't SS usually your highest priority ability other than CDs, though?
ionic fern
Yes.
clever bronze
Or is it just that M+ requires more CD-uptime, so you want more Last Stand w/ SB and stuff.
chilly brook
Yes but again you're assuming you get resets when you need them
clever bronze
True, true.
chilly brook
Which from playing beta is not really the case in m+
ionic fern
I tried HR in beta. It felt horrible in dungeons. Watching SB drop off and then SS reset is just awful.
clever bronze
That's true too, I did kinda hate how that ended up working.
Funny enough, though, I think it feels way better in SL now
chilly brook
HR just isn't consistent
clever bronze
And the reason for that is you have way better on-demand rage in your opener that means you don't need to start with a Shield Slam to get the rage for a Shield Block
chilly brook
And now that bolster gives you the shield block buff....
clever bronze
With Avatar and stuff, especially with BV too.
sick sentinel
@sick sentinel different than it was in BfA from gameplay PoV but still solid. 🙂
@ionic fern would you say its better than a vdh?
chilly brook
You can literally just last stand and dump 2 shield blocks into it while shield block recharges
clever bronze
Yeah, that's gonna be sweet.
ionic fern
I haven't touched VDH enough to answer that . 🙂
chilly brook
And have more block extension than you would with HR
ionic fern
I never really liked VDH either so... 👀
civic rover
idk, VDH looks insane
clever bronze
Vengeance Demon Hunter?
chilly brook
@sick sentinel all the tanks defensively are fairly close together
VDH is winning out on damage done
And the meta build for DH sucks ass
ionic fern
Are they still shear spamming?
sick sentinel
Alright thank you
chilly brook
Eh
clever bronze
So how would you guys recommend I update my notes?
https://i.imgur.com/9pvuJLp.png
Bolster is better in M+, for example?
chilly brook
Everything basically revolves around spreading your Fiery Brand rn @ionic fern
clever bronze
Or just delete HR? XD
chilly brook
I just dont see a point in using HR rn
But again why am I typing in here I'm a pink boi now
lusty grotto
ill stick to AM
for now
because BoM
might be worth to swap to Bolster depending on key
ionic fern
For now definitely stick to AM.
clever bronze
Because of BFA stuff like BoM?
lusty grotto
like lets say tyrannical WM and i want to not reset tree boss
ionic fern
Because current raid doesn't warrant going defensive.
clever bronze
Gotcha.
lusty grotto
or humongous fortified pulls
but even then BoM mastery might be better for that last one
ionic fern
It has a lot of nuances to it @clever bronze , what is the fight like, how often are the tank swaps, etc.
clever bronze
Sounds hella
chilly brook
I mean like honestly you shouldnt need to make notes for the talents
clever bronze
I do, so no bulli 😦
chilly brook
But like that's making more work for yourself when resources for these things already exist
clever bronze
Not really, it's saving me time in not having to constantly look stuff up when I forget.
lusty grotto
matt different strokes
chilly brook
I.e. wowhead, icy veins, tanknotes.tk
lusty grotto
😉
clever bronze
Gonna bookmark tanknotes.tk, tho.
steep wraith
Ravager doesn't add any defense anymore either (assuming your note was about the parry)
clever bronze
I didn't know about that one.
Nah, it's because Ravager is in the defensive build on wowhead
I miss the idea of it having Parry-synergy with Revenge. Sounded cool.
Too bad it was a dead talent
chilly brook
Would have sucked tbhb
lusty grotto
when you think about it, why would you pick Ravager without AM
chilly brook
Since revenge is now capped on procs
civic rover
AM just isn't as valuable anymore imo
lusty grotto
its amazing damage
clever bronze
And if you're taking AM, it goes farther with UF I'd think.
lusty grotto
it depends
clever bronze
I mean, more rage doesn't mean more Shield Block uptime, though. So there's a limit to your defense from rage.
And Shield Block is super important, no?
chilly brook
Yes
ionic fern
You can't go wrong with playing Bolster in m+ tbh - it's a solid choice and a more defensive one.
It just takes a lot more time getting used to due to picking Ravager etc also with it.
chilly brook
But you aren't limited on IP casts
Outside of your rage
And it also means more damage
lusty grotto
more rage means you can pepega IPs into AM so that your avatar resets faster
clever bronze
Yeah, but IP only takes half damage into its absorb shield.
chilly brook
Because more rage you can spend on revenge
lusty grotto
BOM
chilly brook
It's still more absorb
clever bronze
Oh, yeah, that's right.
chilly brook
More absorb is more absorbed
ionic fern
I tried AM with Ravager/DR and UF/BV and the CD of Avatar was roughly 35-40s with both. 👀
So go nuts.
clever bronze
Oh, so the rage to CDR is about the same with both? 👀
Holy shit, so many competitive talents
civic rover
slightly more avatar uptime isn't better than much more shield block uptime imo.
lusty grotto
until leggos hit 😉
clever bronze
Of course
ionic fern
Gimme that Thunderlords. 😦
clever bronze
I'ma be happy I got my god damn thunderlords this time.
And I got the manacles as a talent
Legion screwed me on leggos
lusty grotto
gtfo
civic rover
i mean it really doesn't depend
clever bronze
I got, in this order: Destiny Driver, Aggramar's Stride, Deeper Stratagem
And then I think I got a DPS leggo
civic rover
more shield block uptime is always the best option
clever bronze
Or The Walls Fell
chilly brook
lusty grotto
thats not true leif
ionic fern
more shield block uptime is always the best option
@civic rover that is true. IF you need more SB uptime.
chilly brook
@lusty grotto
clever bronze
And then I was DPS raiding so I didn't get any of the really good tank leggos
dusky mica
Imagine posting anything paladin related. SMH.
modern brook
Have u considered just having a casual boost of like 60% mastery instead?
chilly brook
Fight me with my pink gloriousness
clever bronze
Destiny Driver as my first legendary 😭
civic rover
if you're raiding AM or HR is probably better but for M+ I see zero reason to not pick bolster.
lusty grotto
not everyone here is running high keys
civic rover
it's not even for high keys
lusty grotto
and SB uptime is easily managed in lower keys
mellow patio
The adequate amount of shield block uptime to complete the content you are doing while also outputting the most damage is always the best option
There
Fixed it for you
lusty grotto
not everyone goes for big dick pulls etc
clever bronze
Hawgz gets it
mellow patio
If you don’t need more Sb uptime
lusty grotto
what happens in caster mob scenarios?
mellow patio
Why do you want it
lusty grotto
wasted
modern brook
u still get the ehealth :^)
mellow patio
The word is law
modern brook
in caster scenario
civic rover
it's more block uptime and a much lower cooldown. i see zero reason to not take bolster in M+.
lusty grotto
it doesnt disappear from your skills
modern brook
ionic fern
Then take Bolster. :)
I'm still rocking my AM.
lusty grotto
😬 bull
modern brook
its an epic meme nim
lusty grotto
aha i got you with your emoji
clever bronze
Okay, how's this?
https://i.imgur.com/j52yHMJ.png
