protection

[brittle owl]

or for dps

but you sim for that

[split portal]

cool, thanks bud

[inner drift]

what covenants you rolling guys

[frail blade]

can you advice me, what a best trinket for High m+ keys:Wrathion trinket or underrout for healing?

[ionic fern]

@inner drift pin in #698541559049748520

@frail blade - what's "High" for you? Underrot one is horrible. In general Vita/Rezans/Wrathion are all good.

[frail blade]

for 22-25+ keys I mean, ok thanks for response

[ionic fern]

LPS is also solid if you make good use out of it.

[sweet surge]

Boys, I have a 465 haste versa wep from Atal w/ AVoidance proc on it, now i just got a 475 of it from chest, no avoidance. Thoughts?

By Avoidance proc I mean it proc'd to also give avoidance

[novel ruin]

Ilvl in wep and shield always

[sweet surge]

What does more ilvl on wep exactly do for us (new to tanking), other than higher auto attacks?

[novel ruin]

Everything

[sweet surge]

Are our other abilities also based on wep dmg? Like revenge slam

[novel ruin]

Yes

[sweet surge]

I see

ty 😉

I guess I got lucky, even though its late expansion. It also has TD3 on it kek

[novel ruin]

Nioce

[modern brook]

no think only ilvl

[sweet surge]

Need 1 vision for a sockety sock and I'm set 🙂

[novel ruin]

That’s big

Plz go haste

[sweet surge]

I'm a versa Andy 🐒

My friend healer loves going kitty cat and leaving me alone to live at 200k so I feel far better w/ a defensive build

In general, what level would you say starts "Requiring" versatile in M+?

[brittle owl]

your healer friend can do that even if you run td

[novel ruin]

@sweet surge 24ish

[sweet surge]

Okay, so I'm set then, I am pushing 24-25

[novel ruin]

🙂

[sweet surge]

My TD Set lacks IT, I feel like I miss that more than I do Versatile tho

I played TD last week because of SKittish

The windows where I don't have block are miserable

[novel ruin]

IT is POGGERS

[sweet surge]

yeah, now that I didn't have it for 1 week, I can attest to that

Can defo tell the difference

[novel ruin]

Td 3 > IT > anymore TD

[sweet surge]

Problem is, I only recently started tanking because we had no1 else (and warrior DPS is just pepe for the most part atm), soI don't have any ITbooks left

and because of the retardation that is the corruption rotation, I can't get it anyway

[novel ruin]

Arms slaps

Fury does aight

[sweet surge]

Yeah, I played Fury, finally gathered a full, none too shabby set for Arms w/ Haste mastery etc

And tried to just go with that in M+ pugs with my Mage friend

0 invites, literally

[novel ruin]

You can time 25/26 just fine as any spec

[sweet surge]

The moment they see our class color as DPS it's insta decline

[brittle owl]

Td 3 > IT > anymore TD
this stinks of feelycraft

[sweet surge]

For sure youcan, but I don't have a full team unfortunately

[brittle owl]

but i respect the td on top

[novel ruin]

@brittle owl it is

[brittle owl]

vers is for nerds anyway

[sweet surge]

When I leave the party, my mage gets invited within seconds solo xD

And I am talking about 21s and 22s

[novel ruin]

Tanking is by far the best m+ role

[sweet surge]

It's real fun, I'll tell ya that!

Prot feels extremely fluid atm

[novel ruin]

It is

[brittle owl]

shadowlands

[sweet surge]

it won't in SL xD

[sweet summit]

[sweet surge]

from what I am seeing tho

[novel ruin]

I’m playing Pally in SL

[brittle owl]

deus vult

[sweet surge]

I guess I'll have to play something else if it actually ends up that tragic

which is kind of unfortunate, I've mained warrior since 2005

[sweet summit]

isnt pally suffering the same fate in SL as they do in BFA?

[brittle owl]

nah

[novel ruin]

Nah

[brittle owl]

its completely siff

[strong forum]

Pally got a complete rework

[brittle owl]

instead of discreet long stretches of am downtime

now you gotta contend with micro downtime

[novel ruin]

^

[brittle owl]

which is cool and skillful

[sweet summit]

as in SotR being kinda wack?

[brittle owl]

people froth about that since bfa launch

and lemme tell you

[novel ruin]

Just like current warrior

[sweet summit]

tell me

[brittle owl]

people frothing are dumb

[honest plinth]

Fifty Shades of fotm Players

[brittle owl]

the same nerds

[sweet summit]

frothing owns

[brittle owl]

complain about sotr being whack

but suck the dick of demon spikes

[strong forum]

[brittle owl]

also they say pally is the "uTiLiTy TaNk"

forgetting that all that utility cann be used on yourself

[novel ruin]

Guys, y’all have to play what’s fun. Clapping is going away as we know it (for the most part). Captain Americaing is next best fun

With wings, everything is better with wings

[strong forum]

Vdh

[novel ruin]

And pally is big utility for this raid

[strong forum]

Vdh is a dps but tank

[brittle owl]

lmao

thats p paladin

vdh is gud doe

[novel ruin]

Paladin does most Dam

[strong forum]

High mobility, aoe silence you get to have fun grip

[brittle owl]

im leveling both anyway

and choosing depending on raid tuning

[novel ruin]

DH and DK are my next two chooses depending on tuning

[strong forum]

Ya but pally has to chose between dmg and healing

[novel ruin]

Choices*

[brittle owl]

wut

nah

[strong forum]

And vdh just does both

On 1 button

[brittle owl]

lel

[novel ruin]

But shield throwing > any button DH presses

[brittle owl]

dk or vdh depends on your raid comp @novel ruin

[novel ruin]

That too

[brittle owl]

if havoc is ass

you're shoehorned into vdh

[sweet summit]

i think we're doing monk+bdk/pally depending on bosses

[novel ruin]

That’s pretty much what we are doing

I’m working on my DK rn

Well I was

I only raid logged the last couple weeks besides a dungeon or so on DK

[strong forum]

Everybody will be doing that

And there I will be

The "prolly bear + prot war combo"

Coming thru

[brittle owl]

hey

[novel ruin]

As long as tanks can live damage, what you play is kinda moot

[strong forum]

Exactly

[brittle owl]

maybe ww or mw gets buffed thru the ceiling

[strong forum]

Fuck all y'all

[brittle owl]

freedom from brm

[strong forum]

Maybe

But doubt

Stagger is just too good for early progression

[novel ruin]

^

[brittle owl]

idc my cotank's gonna play brm if the debuff is needed anyway

[sweet summit]

when is the gcd announcement

[novel ruin]

What GCD?

[strong forum]

Prolly tonight

[brittle owl]

i mean

if the raid is giga overtuned

monk+vdh might be the play

[novel ruin]

GCD announcement? What?

[brittle owl]

there was a leak

[strong forum]

He doesn't know

He lacks critical information

[brittle owl]

💧

[novel ruin]

Tell me plz

[strong forum]

You'll see

Or not

It's just rumours

[brittle owl]

could just be a very highbrow troll

[strong forum]

Looked pretty convincing to me

But yeah could be giga troll

[sweet summit]

idk i just woke up and people are talking about some gcd things

[brittle owl]

shhh

go back to sleep

[strong forum]

Wake me when SL comes

[sweet summit]

its almost 4pm

[brittle owl]

don't let the gcd monster get your hopes up

[novel ruin]

Woah

[strong forum]

Only gcd I care for is SS and avatar

[novel ruin]

Scrolls are going away

[strong forum]

OTP here ama

[sweet summit]

yeah

avatar and demo off gcd thanks

[brittle owl]

wings and wog pls

[strong forum]

Demo doesn't fit the narrative given

But avatar and wings do ;)

[novel ruin]

And engineering Brez going away

[sweet summit]

yep

[brittle owl]

engi brez going away

is the

single

dumbest

thing

they ever did

👏

[strong forum]

It's worse than covenants

[novel ruin]

Is knife going away too

[sweet summit]

dont think so

[strong forum]

Engi res leaving is literally worse than covenants being locked

[novel ruin]

Hasn’t engin res been a thing since vanilla?

[strong forum]

Regular for a while

But brez hasnt

[novel ruin]

Ahh

[strong forum]

Regular will prolly still be a thing

But brez leaving fucks over m+ so much

[novel ruin]

Yup

Makes restos even more powerful

[left hatch]

psh itll be an all dk meta

[brittle owl]

it doesn't even make resto's as powerful as it's making DK's

[left hatch]

with how stronk blood frost and UH are rn

[brittle owl]

specifically bdk

[pliant geyser]

should we be doing all haste gems or all vers?

[strong forum]

All haste

[left hatch]

depends on your content level, if you have to ask 99% chance all haste

[sweet summit]

whats vers

[strong forum]

If you do high keys + vers%, vers

[left hatch]

(and high keys is well into the 20 range)

[novel ruin]

High keys is 24+

[pliant geyser]

at what key range does vers gems

oh

yeah on my main i only do 20-22 keys, probably will never do higher than 21-22s on this guy

[left hatch]

then dw about versa

grab 2IT's and TD

[pliant geyser]

just cuz thats when keys start super sucking

[left hatch]

or just full TD

[novel ruin]

All da haste

[left hatch]

2 IT1's*

and then full gem haste

[pliant geyser]

okay cool

and rest TD pretty much?

[left hatch]

mhm

damage is trivial and you can solo delete packs with TD procs

[novel ruin]

@left hatch DK will get nerfed after season 1 like BFA

[left hatch]

probably

but that still means itll be op in s1

and i think Pally is closer to the chopping block rn

[novel ruin]

What?

Chopping block for what?

[left hatch]

for an incoming nerf

[novel ruin]

Ahh

[strong forum]

Numbers wise, defo

[left hatch]

their op damage output rn is being conflated with being op in general, despite the same ol issue of survivability between SOTR

[novel ruin]

I thought you were saying Pally was dead

[strong forum]

The conduits are way overtuned

[left hatch]

so i have a feeling that they'll be nerfed in more than just the #'s department

[novel ruin]

Probably

[strong forum]

There's no downtime on sotr tho

[pliant geyser]

sotr?

oh

[left hatch]

shield of the righteous

[pliant geyser]

right

[strong forum]

The issue is you have to choose between sotr or healing

If you heal, you're dead on the next melee

[novel ruin]

I’m fine with that

[strong forum]

If you don't heal but sotr you can die just as fast

Assuming you're low

[novel ruin]

It’s a skill

Be nice if it wasn’t on GCD though

[strong forum]

It's your spender now

[left hatch]

the trick is to just have a ret with healing hands

so they crit heal for a lay on hands

[sweet summit]

true

[left hatch]

don't even need a healer when you have that

[novel ruin]

I wonder how the new Ret talents are

[strong forum]

Dog

[left hatch]

yah its... not good

[strong forum]

Ret is literally in the gutter

[novel ruin]

Feels bad, it was fun to play during raid testing

[strong forum]

It's basically the same as bfa

[left hatch]

they're worse in every way but bringing BoP to UDH

and they made the GCD issue even worse for them

[novel ruin]

BoP is pretty big in this raid

[left hatch]

while fixing arcane mage and bdk

[novel ruin]

What GCD issue?

Blizz wants em to have dead globals to fill with “utility”

[left hatch]

with certain cove's and talents you have like... a 6ish buff opener

before you even start doing damage

[novel ruin]

Ahh

Just go crusade and legendary that makes wings last longer every Hammer hit, have wings for 60seconds

[brittle owl]

just look at ret paladin

you can

wings, inquisition, seraphim, execution sentence and STILL not do any damage yet

[left hatch]

except the way their aura works, if you have a 60s wings buff and someone dies... it overwrites the exended buff for it

to make it a smaller duration

gayme design

[brittle owl]

very gayme

[novel ruin]

They need to get rid of that aura

[left hatch]

they needed to keep auras passive

[novel ruin]

They also got a nerf on their speed

[brittle owl]

ret aura is dumb for ret, makes for skillful use for holy tho

for prot it's eh, sure?

[left hatch]

eh even if its skillful use, auras are supposed to be something that helps your group

[brittle owl]

but absolutely dumb for ret, considering they had it as a passive

[novel ruin]

Cuz crusader aura isn’t passive anylonger so your horsey moves slower

[left hatch]

but its rn an opportunistic selfish -self buff

[brittle owl]

wdym

that's what all utility should be

zug zug

[novel ruin]

My utility is doing big damage, whatcha mean?

[brittle owl]

you died for the greater good or whatever, now imma get wings and pump

bless the and somesuch, time to GOO

[novel ruin]

Ret can never be top dps

It’ll be OP

[brittle owl]

as long as prot exists

ret will never be top

[novel ruin]

Could you imagine Ret being as powerful as Arms rn

[brittle owl]

i can but

at the same time

[left hatch]

i just feel bad for ret not really having a niche rn

[novel ruin]

DH/ hunter wouldn’t be a thing

[brittle owl]

i'd rather imagine paint drying

[left hatch]

like they want them to be good at burst but, even that they don't do as well as frost

or burst aoe they fall way behind mr. "im always cleaving" UH

and DH is gutter rn

[brittle owl]

you misspelled frost DK on burst aoe

[novel ruin]

Pet management is bleh

[left hatch]

i meant frost dk haha

eh the worst part of pet management was remembering to manually turn off claws to pool energy

and now they did a QOL fix so you don't have to do t hat

[novel ruin]

Anytime I have to manage a pet, I instantly want to change toons

[left hatch]

xformation refills energy bar so woo

hunter might be a thing?

in raid theres a lot of mechanics they can handle on their own

and even with the nerf tar trap is op as fuck

[novel ruin]

Yeah, Even if BM is middle of the road, they can handle a ton of jobs

[brittle owl]

i liked pet management in TBC with demo lock

but somehow

it got worse as the game progressed

nowadays pets are legit crackheads

[left hatch]

idk, i played a BM for the first time mid 9.3 and never really had issues of pets running off to attack diff packs

unless i autoshot or something

and thats user error

[novel ruin]

Game got more complex so more times for the pet AI to mess something up

[brittle owl]

that's a pisspoor excuse/explanation you know that right 😂

[left hatch]

the worst or derpiest part is some pathfinding on skips, or the pets needing to be in melee range to use their purify

and i think.... you no longer need melee range to purify anymore

[novel ruin]

Or ghouls making Sharks go faster

[left hatch]

with tranq shot coming back

[sick sentinel]

i saw challenging shout back 4minutes cd taunt all

thats something i want for sure

prefer the flag taunt from cata thing better tho and disarm PVE

[steep bone]

mEtA SlAvE

||we had like 20 queues with good people xD|||

[left hatch]

ah, just like the meta simps who look for UDH in 10's

refreshing

[steep bone]

like legit

anything he takes and its fine, especially in ad

[brittle owl]

twisting nether

[steep bone]

LULW

[brittle owl]

[steep bone]

im from kazzak xD

[brittle owl]

oh hello fellow smooth brain

[pearl summit]

Kazzakstan L U L

[steep bone]

he ofc took mage

[sweet summit]

hello my brain is also smooth

[steep bone]

and FURRY warrior

😮

[left hatch]

smooth brain just means you more aerodynamic

[brittle owl]

kazzakistan rise up

[left hatch]

zoom zoom

[brittle owl]

TRU

[sweet summit]

exactly

[brittle owl]

[sweet summit]

🏃‍♂️ 💨

i am speed

[steep bone]

kazzak is the best realm ever

[brittle owl]

maximum nyoooom

[steep bone]

dont @ me

[sweet summit]

@steep bone

[vocal skiff]

at what point does mage even do anything

I was told threshold was 20

but at some point people are going to say mages are only good for 30s lol

(I understand there isn't a rigid threshold)

[sweet summit]

somewhere in the lower upper teens/20s they start to shine

[left hatch]

it really depends on the other people in your group tbh

[sweet summit]

a bit lower if you really play around them

that too

[brittle owl]

depends how you pull

for myself

[left hatch]

like in the case of UDH, they need decent amount of time to build up and really start going, so even in a 23/24 if you have 2 havocs that just delete the pack(s)

they won't do much

[brittle owl]

whenever i have a mage in my group

i go afk or pull small whenever they font

out of spite

[strong forum]

Mages aren't people.

[novel ruin]

you are tank.Pull for yourself

Do not simp for the other classes

ever

otherwise you can go be leather tank

[tame garden]

🤨

[exotic spoke]

@tame garden I missed you qtpie

[mellow patio]

Speg leather tanks are sub human

[tame garden]

@exotic spoke

[novel ruin]

people who wear leather arent even tanks

[sweet summit]

I am a simp

I will gladly simp for my princess

[novel ruin]

Go be leather healbot

[sweet summit]

Maybe

[tame garden]

[sweet summit]

It was ok

[novel ruin]

You arent allowed to be a plate wearer if you simp

That isnt tanking

[sweet summit]

Looks like im breaking the law

[exotic spoke]

I miss playing with my spriest 😦

Chain pull like a MFer was great fun 🙂

[novel ruin]

Whats new? You illegally changed your name

[sweet summit]

Oh shit

That was legal

Dont worr

[novel ruin]

Did you get permission from Mwahi? Otherwise its illegal

[sweet summit]

Oh

Then it was illegal

[novel ruin]

BANISHED TO THE SHADOWREALM

[ionic fern]

[novel ruin]

[balmy quest]

just tanked a 14 Atal, 4 min oot but for that being like the 3rd dungeon I've tanked I dont htink its too bad

[sweet summit]

Nice mate

Keep going, you got this

[balmy quest]

yeah fucked up on some of the simple things

accidentally pulled the nasty pack infront of Vorkal, and also forgot the pillar near him ><

[stiff inlet]

Reclearwd through carapace last night. Didn’t know spell reflect can cause a wipe when used on a madness bomb...

[balmy quest]

so did the middle pillar to there adn took that one to Yazma

[rancid ember]

Nice! Consider skipping the pillar in front of Vor'kaal all together. It's usually spider or Blob both of which are easy to handle with Yaz /w BL. Having a rogue /w Shroud helps go from Vor'kaal to the stair pack effectively for the % you want there.

3rd instance just read mb, but still! Adding 1 ob to final boss is fun 🙂

[balmy quest]

Yeah, might be a second soon to start adding obs to bosses, if it were FH I would have though

spider + harlan is a joke

[charred ivy]

any1 tried tank with fury crit gear? doable?

[balmy quest]

rn im mostly trying to copy how my main tank goes

[novel ruin]

crit is good for protection

[charred ivy]

yeah but most reccomenf haste/Td / vers 😛

[sweet summit]

Whats vers

[safe cosmos]

hey guys im new here lol im getting back into wow and was wondering if anyone can help me set up my hot bars for arms warrior

oh my b this is protc channel my b

[sweet summit]

Np

[novel ruin]

@charred ivy No

ilvl > haste > crit >= vers > mastery for majority of players

if you arent doing high keys (24+ ) no real reason to ever go vers

[steep bone]

that also doesn't mean you want to have 0% vers, just don't stack it like fluffy pillow full vers socket/enchants

[chilly brook]

Real quick anyone have any logs for m+ where you used a ton of abyssal healing pots?

[ionic fern]

@charred ivy definitely doable.
I sometimes forget myself in fury azerite and it's literally not a issue if you know the class. 🤷
People put too much emphazis on "borrowed powers" even though you can do most things with the base class itself.

[steep bone]

does visions go away with prepatch?

i mean can i still get mount after prepatch?

[rancid ember]

Friend tested on PTR and it's impossible, idk if they'll tune it

[novel ruin]

@steep bone @sweet summit I’m raid tanking tonight

[sweet summit]

pog

solotank carapace with ineffable ravager please

[novel ruin]

@sweet summit I need crash course in talent/essence set up for raid plz

Gonna go haste, TD everything

[sweet summit]

same as m+ just go devastator

or bv if u just pray for td anyway

[novel ruin]

CoF Major?

[sweet summit]

yeah

[novel ruin]

With vision, conflict and what minor?

[sweet summit]

CnS>Null>Void/VoP

[novel ruin]

Warden or lucid?

Null for damage I see

[sweet summit]

always

[steep bone]

@novel ruin im dpsing today XD

[novel ruin]

@steep bone whyd you get beat by fury warrior?

[mellow patio]

Damn called out

[steep bone]

oh thats just trash but also hes bis geared and im just xD + absolute no clue what im doin

[mellow patio]

I like your battle shout WA

My guild would love if I had that

And because of this I will not get it

[novel ruin]

@steep bone I kinda want your UI for SL. How hard is it to change for other classes/specs?

[steep bone]

@novel ruin it's naowh's ui

[novel ruin]

I’m

Ik*

[steep bone]

Hmm

it's pretty ez, he has weak auras for all classes

[novel ruin]

@sweet summit Are you holding Demo for specific times?

[sweet summit]

nah just on cd

[novel ruin]

In raid, that is

[sweet summit]

nothing does damage

except bashers or something

and ilgy beams

[novel ruin]

What will kill me?

[sweet summit]

ilgy beams

if u get too many stacks

like 3 or something

[novel ruin]

I take 2 stacks then switch?

[sweet summit]

yeah

[novel ruin]

Eat first, SR/Somethinf 2nd

[sweet summit]

u can sr both

[novel ruin]

They are that far a part?

[sweet summit]

ye

[novel ruin]

What about avatar?

[sweet summit]

on cd, big dam

[novel ruin]

Rotation on pull/pre-pull?

[sweet summit]

same as m+ bosses

[novel ruin]

So no taunting?

Can I CoF during charge?

[sweet summit]

yes you can

[novel ruin]

So Avatar > Charge > CoF

[civic rover]

almost every fight is just a taunt swap mechanic lol

[rancid ember]

Raid tanking snore fest. need to change roles for SL raiding.
Mythic+ tanking is where it at thoo

[mellow patio]

Very insightful

[sweet summit]

np

[strong forum]

When I open on bosses it's usually pre-pot - cof-avatar+charge+taunt-ss+sb or Demo mid charge when close enough to apply and insta SB

That's usually my first cast is demo mid charge for the rage

[novel ruin]

appreciate it

[steep bone]

I actually like dpsing on nzoth 😮

[brittle owl]

dps on nzoth is sleeper

[sweet surge]

In Tol Dagor, if Jes Howlis opens the gates to release the prisoners, do the prisoners grant % towards mob kills or only if they're separately released and killed beforehand?

[novel ruin]

The latter

But they won’t do on death affixes if Jes opens em

[sweet surge]

I see, thanks

[steep bone]

actually i got weap and xpac is over

[mellow patio]

No leech 🗑

[steep bone]

no versa

[mellow patio]

Dead stat

[steep bone]

versa is bis

[mellow patio]

Dead

Stat

[steep bone]

i stack versa since m0

ive stacked versa before it was needed

[mellow patio]

“Before it was cool”

Jk it was never cool

[steep bone]

wait, i can play furry now

double nzoth weap 😮

[limpid pawn]

if they let vulpera be any class, their subscriber numbers would go up substancially

*substantially

[sweet summit]

die vulpera die

[limpid pawn]

im watching a bolstering spotter video

how do you move the spotter without dying to melee once it's bolstered

is there like a deadzone near it that moves it but it won't hit you

[sweet summit]

no idea

[steep bone]

@sweet summit brooo, how bad is 40% crit fury without amps XD

[sweet summit]

not bad

[steep bone]

i wanna go away from that arms joke 😦

[sweet summit]

arm bad

furry good

[steep bone]

mind if i whisper u

[sweet summit]

im not in game

but u can dm me on discrd

[steep bone]

aye in discord

[sweet summit]

ofc

my dms are always open

[chilly brook]

Lemme slide in them dms

[sweet summit]

😳

[mellow patio]

I’ll slide in somethin

[undone sun]

[still pagoda]

@steep bone
got last piece of loot from nzoth today

now it's over for real

i'll continue raid logging tho

no leech on mount

[mellow patio]

🗑

[novel ruin]

@steep bone why no more arms? I’m glad you are seeing the light

[steep bone]

@novel ruin because i got myticc nzoth weap and i wanted to try it, but no crit corrupts makes it pretty yikers compared to arms, sim wise ofc, but playstyle wise fury feels way more enjoyable, and i also don't have good essences for furry 😦

@still pagoda gratz 😄 i got mine last raid i think D:

[still pagoda]

now it's time to semi-AFK krab in EVE till SL launch

[mellow patio]

@lusty karma relative to what exactly

[chilly brook]

So average hit of TC without avatar is 22.3k.
Average hit of TC with avatar in 8.3 is 46.5k.

That's more than a 30% increase to the damage but more like a 50% which makes sense because avatar already bumps damage by 20%.

so currently avatar seems to boost damage by 47% on TC

Using that logic

Unbuffed UF would be a ~120% boost

[lusty karma]

have to factor in avatar uptime increase from 8.1 to 8.3 with VoP, I'm not sure what the increase is but I imagine between the proc and reduced CD it's fairly high, other essences also factor and lastly corruption on that, 7 TD seems to be what most are running these days

[mellow patio]

F math what are we saying 8.3 prot is more powerful relative to what?

[lusty karma]

8.1 prot scaled up vs 8.3 with essences/corruptions/new azerite

the statement is 8.1 > 8.3

[mellow patio]

8.1 > 8.3 relative to other classes

[lusty karma]

that wasn't the statement

"8.1 prot warrior if given the same gear as you have in 8.3 would clap the cheeks of your 8.3 warrior"

[chilly brook]

Corruption is on gear

dummy

[mellow patio]

It’s the only statement that matters tbh

[lusty karma]

then that makes your statement even dumber

because then you're just saying 100% tclap on UF is > 30% tclap on UF which is obvious

but your statement was 8.1 > 8.3 which factors in a whole bunch more

[mellow patio]

That is... the point?

[lusty karma]

the statement was on overall warrior not on UF the talent

[mellow patio]

Why make it relative to anything except other classes tho

[lusty karma]

we saw a damage nerf to UF but we got essences and corruptions to balance that out and I believe with that we come out ahead

[mellow patio]

We didn’t get them

Everyone got them

[lusty karma]

VoP is class specific on the ability and scales varingly

so that's also an untrue statement

[mellow patio]

Corruption and essences narrowed the gap between prot and other tanks

[lusty karma]

DK gets VB we get Avatar

big difference

[chilly brook]

Your argument is actually stupid

[mellow patio]

Prot was miles ahead in 8.1, and corruption and essences have brought other tanks closer

[lusty karma]

Once again the literal statement wasn't comparing other tanks, it was 8.1 to 8.3 prot

[chilly brook]

"hey bowered generic power makes us better because it's current patch" no duh. But then literally a better class design could never be considered as peak because at that snapshot in time it didn't have a broken generic power available to everyone....

[lusty karma]

VoP is class specific, if you don't understand that I can't help you, and the class is a summation of all things including, yes, borrowed power

maybe don't make such generalizing broad statements if you can't defend them

[chilly brook]

VoP is not class specific

[lusty karma]

it is

We get Avatar

[chilly brook]

It's available to everyone

[lusty karma]

Blood DK gets VB

it changes based on class

[chilly brook]

It's effect for us is specific

[lusty karma]

and how it affects that class also changes

[chilly brook]

the essence itself isn't

[lusty karma]

VB to Blood != Avatar to Prot

and borrowed power is a factor of our class

you can be mad about that

that's fine

[chilly brook]

And you're using CoF in raid anyways

[lusty karma]

you can debate whether more should be baseline vs. added via some other system

that's also fine

[chilly brook]

And if you're pushing keys you're using lucid =or CnS

[mellow patio]

If we aren’t comparing relative to other tanks

[lusty karma]

but borrowed power is part of that just as much as talents, abilities and everything else

i don't agree with Blizzard putting so much emphasis on borrowed power but they do

[mellow patio]

This conversation is ... say it with me... p o I n t l e s s

[lusty karma]

but what aspects in comparison to other tanks?

rotation/playstyle/survivability/damage/mobility? there's multiple aspects in a comparison which is why doing them is difficult

[mellow patio]

Say it with me

Say it

[lusty karma]

right now prot warrior wins on survivability, mobility, damage pretty handily compared to other tanks, rotation is subjective but I find it fun

[mellow patio]

Yes. And my point is it did so even more in 8.1 than now

[chilly brook]

You would literally be better with 8.1 prot

[mellow patio]

Any thing other than that I cba

[chilly brook]

Would you not be better with 100% UF?

What else have we gotten since then?

0

[lusty karma]

at least compared to the two I've played Blood DK and Prot Paladin, I think the only one that competes with us is Vengeance DH

VoP is pretty huge relative to other tanks for us

because we get Avatar with it

My DK gets Vampiric Blood which is meh on VOP, Paladin gets Wings which is better but the talents don't back it the same way

and to be clear the original argument wasn't "compared to other tanks" no matter how much you want to move goalposts now

[mellow patio]

Well you are terrible at making your original argument then lmao

But I’ve made my point so this is

Say it with me

Pointlessssssssss

[chilly brook]

That's because he moved the goalpost @mellow patio

[civic rover]

VoP isn't why prot is op though

[mellow patio]

Thank you

[civic rover]

like yeah it's helpful sure, but there's a lot more in the equation

[lusty karma]

sure but it's a good chunk of the factor

[mellow patio]

Prot was op before vop

So OBV it is going to be op after

[civic rover]

more uptime on avatar is always good but the main contributor to that is anger management

[mellow patio]

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-andy-andy-bernard-punches-the-office-andy-bernard-punches-gif-12104995

[lusty karma]

My original argument was prot started weak and got better over Legion/BFA, that still stands and will likely stand for SL

[mellow patio]

Prot wasn’t weak at the start of bfa

Factually incorrect

[undone sun]

Well...

[mellow patio]

Were we as good as 8.1

No

[undone sun]

8.0 wasnt a great time for prot

[mellow patio]

But weak is an overstatement

Projectiles being blocked was a welcomed change tho

[undone sun]

Sure, that's the point where prot got good

8.1 isn't 8.0

[mellow patio]

And IP on gcd felt clunky but our damage output and survivability was never weak

[civic rover]

regardless, unless we're pushing for top 100 world or extremely high keys our tank choice isn't going to be holding us back.

[lusty karma]

Exactly, the reason I even made the statement was to highlight the normal loss in power at the start of a new expansion isn't a reason to give up on a class, as a lot of people have been doom and gloom on prot and people kept asking "how are we looking for SL"

[undone sun]

:o revolutionary

[lusty karma]

borrowed power may have made the loss more substantial but we've had it before with tier sets and general loss of secondaries

[mellow patio]

Excuse me you said SL pls take this to #698541559049748520

[lusty karma]

well some people frame it like it's the end of the world in here

[civic rover]

most people active in this discord aren't giving up prot

[lusty karma]

I'll be sticking with Prot Warrior like I have since WotLK when I first swapped, it's always been enjoyable but I'd be lying if I said current iteration wasn't some of the most fun I've had on it

[mellow patio]

Also I can agree with you on that point

[slow steppe]

hello protection warriors, im back with another newbie prt question. ive gotten enough echoes to buy my final rank 3 essence for ym neck, i currently have Vivion slotted in major, with crucible and memory of lucid dreams minors

[novel ruin]

conflict

[mellow patio]

Rude

That was my moment to be useful

[slow steppe]

what are my best options for my final essence? i sorta want nulll barrier to help me mitigate magic damage, since it seems to hurt the most, but are there some others i might be missing?

[novel ruin]

lol

[mellow patio]

And you stole that from me

[novel ruin]

Null isnt used for the shield

its used for damage in raid

[mellow patio]

For the dam

[novel ruin]

Conflict is best

[slow steppe]

unfortunately i havennt gotten rank 3 conflict on my main

[mellow patio]

What rank do you have

[slow steppe]

2 on my main, i dont have it on my warrior

[lusty karma]

Raid tanking or M+ tanking?

Aegis is good for M+, NB is useful for raid, not sure when we'd want to use Lucid as prot

[slow steppe]

ive only raid tanked thus far, last week was a no go for me on M+ because of skittish and my lack of TD. i also dont know the obelisk routes so i havent been confident to run keys alone

[lusty karma]

ah okay then probably NB, do you have Formless?

[slow steppe]

i think i could buy rank 3 formless void

[mellow patio]

Do not buy that

Farm that

[civic rover]

try to get lucid dreams

[lusty karma]

they have lucid

[civic rover]

wait

[slow steppe]

i have rank 3 lucid purchased

[lusty karma]

I think NB then if you farm formless

[civic rover]

i cant read

[lusty karma]

if you aren't going into M+

[slow steppe]

these are the ones i currently own

[civic rover]

get strength of the warden to rank 3

[lusty karma]

if you want to go into M+ then strength of the warden/aegis are both good gets

[slow steppe]

id like to go into M+, my gear is just butt. LOL

[lusty karma]

also strength is needed for all tank runs for fun

but that also needs td and other silly stuff

[civic rover]

i mean you go TD anyway

[mellow patio]

Farm CnS r2

[novel ruin]

aegis is gonna be way more value than warden, especially if you dont need the resistance

[lusty karma]

right he just said he didn't have much I think, CnS is huge though and r2 is fairly easy to get

[oblique garnet]

Null is used for that extra change to proc td

[lusty karma]

how much TD do you have?

[mellow patio]

Brrrrrrrrrrr

[oblique garnet]

8

[lusty karma]

oh I meant @slow steppe

[slow steppe]

zero.

[lusty karma]

any other corruption or no?

[slow steppe]

my Warrior is ultra fresh and ive been dedicating echoes to essence purchases

only random ones ive gotten

uhhh i have Wrathion sword

[civic rover]

TD3 comes up september 25th but that's probably going to be right before prepatch

[slow steppe]

a mind flay tentacle piece

[oblique garnet]

Its kinda late to try and buy off corruption gear since prepatch is around the corner

[novel ruin]

^

[lusty karma]

Yeah, I'd say farm Conflict & Strife/Formless, hold off on Strength as you don't have the corruption to justify now, and probably buy Aegis

normally in M+ I run VoP major, Aegis/C&S/SotW minor but without SotW you'd run what, Lucid?

[civic rover]

you should always use lucid in M+

[slow steppe]

so, how come i cna buy Lucid Dreams but not Aegis of the deep?

[buoyant scroll]

even if nekrotik?

[slow steppe]

i have revered nazjatar on my DK, and thats how i got memeory

[lusty karma]

You have to have unlocked R3 of Aegis on someone to buy it

maybe you didn't buy it

idk

[civic rover]

you can run CNS major for necrotic if your comp doesn't have anything to do with it but I don't think it's needed

[lusty karma]

@civic rover Lucid major or minor?

[civic rover]

minor

even rank 1 it's really good imo

[oblique garnet]

Makes it easier to deal with so no real downside to running CnS major on necrotic

[civic rover]

you see lucid major picked in high WS/KR keys too

[lusty karma]

Yeah I've seen major just never ran minor, always C&S/Aegis/SotW for me

[civic rover]

I use lucid major with my push group but i pull the entire dungeon around its cooldown and we do massive pulls with it. it's fun to play around with.

[lusty karma]

I swap between CnS/VoP major, occaisionally Lucid

yeah I could see that

[buoyant scroll]

yeah can´t rly do it bc of mage 😄

[civic rover]

i run with hunter/boomkin/unholy

the unholy also plays DH and rogue though

[buoyant scroll]

i hate mages btw well to say it softer i hate the design of the firemage

[lusty karma]

do you have the combust weakaura?

I actually enjoy playing with fire mage

when combust is up I go ham

[civic rover]

i dont invite mages to my groups, most of them are garbage fotm rerollers that have that really annoying chat spam combustion weakaura

i just track it on omnicd

[buoyant scroll]

yeah the weak aura is installed in my teamspeak3 client @lusty karma

[oblique garnet]

Why? Now that every decent mage plays minute mage you wont have to pull around him as much

[lusty karma]

but i have a mage who pulls 300k+ pretty regularly and 100k+ on bosses so

yeah minute mage was a big change in my opinion of them

2 min felt bad but minute

it works out to every other pull or every pull having it up

[civic rover]

i get irritated when 3/12 2k io mages try to tell me how to tank the dungeon in their 15 freehold.

[lusty karma]

oh yeah that's annoying

[civic rover]

that is all.

[lusty karma]

i just pull big when i see its up and if they don't use it properly then I ignore it

[buoyant scroll]

yeah but with the 1 min u have one combustion that hit like a wet noodle and one like a bulldozer

[civic rover]

meanwhile my raid team has four fire mages lol, they're all pretty good

[lusty karma]

most will think "big pull i'm gonna combust" though, even the dumber ones

unholy is similar though right? big pulls timed with cds

[civic rover]

yeah but the unholy i run with is funny as fuck

[buoyant scroll]

and i currently didnt get the information which one comes next

[civic rover]

and he's actually been playing a lot of outlaw recently

[lusty karma]

yeah a lot less dickish unholy dks than fire mages

@buoyant scroll True it varies depending on how many cooldowns

but i do love it when they combust the ooze and i drag it to the tentacles and they all die to ignite

[buoyant scroll]

well the tentacle from the blub is a thing for itself i ask him when i should move he dont say anything most of the time and complains bc of it after combustion luckily he streams

[cursive burrow]

Woo~ Vexx down. 7/12.

[sweet summit]

Pog grats mate

[novel ruin]

@sweet summit i did it

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/stormrage/xanthose#spec=Protection

[sweet summit]

Did you die? 👀

Big mate

[novel ruin]

imagine my TD only doing 700k on Raden and monk tank had almost 3mil 😦

[sweet summit]

😂

Bad rng wcyd

[novel ruin]

I didnt do Nzoth cuz i wasnt confident on the pathing

next week i will do it

[sweet summit]

Once you do it as dps you kinda get a feel for it, but i can understand

[novel ruin]

yeah it was dps glasses

[sweet summit]

Cant see bad only boss to kill 😎

[novel ruin]

exactly

dont pay attention to what tanks or healers do, only eyes on my swords

[sacred roost]

wow, looking at wowmeta, both our dps specs are crap, and our tanking spec is crap too? we are getting screwed.

Guess I'm playing warlock, or Paladin, till New World release 😛

[mellow patio]

Wowmeta

[novel ruin]

id never even heard of this website until now

[undone sun]

lucky you

it's not good

[mellow patio]

Also choosing your class based solely off perceived meta

[undone sun]

[sick sentinel]

what talents should i pick

[brittle owl]

#268491842637660160

also wowmeta

[strong forum]

Wowmeta is a scam website that steals logs from wipes from beta raids.
The website is nothing but a clickbait website to scam ad revenue. @sacred roost

[brittle owl]

now

noxxic on the other hand

:kapp:

[strong forum]

Kek

[sturdy sun]

I swapped to prot because I'm tired of getting my sack beat over my hps

Pls be gud class

[strong forum]

Hps is a dead metric

[brittle owl]

wat

hps is a meme

[ebon hound]

do good and it will be good

[strong forum]

Anyone who complains about hps has no clue about what they're talking

[brittle owl]

there's very limited information to be gathered from hps

if any at all

[sturdy sun]

Guild I was in a while ago, I got nagged at like every open raid

[brittle owl]

right

so that guild is dumb

[sturdy sun]

:v

[brittle owl]

shoulda just dunked people on dps

that would've shut their mouth

[sturdy sun]

I was dpsing, that was part of what they bitched about my hps for

[brittle owl]

simple answer for that

"did i die?"

"no but-"

"shut the fuck up nerd"

[sturdy sun]

Ikr the only hp that matters is the last one

[brittle owl]

subscribe to my onlyfans for more tutorials

[sturdy sun]

They were p adama

LMAO

[strong forum]

Hey.

[brittle owl]

here's a poem for your guild

[strong forum]

My OF is way better

[brittle owl]

roses are dumb
violets are dumb
you complaining about hps makes you very dumb

[strong forum]

so beautiful

[brittle owl]

take notes @sturdy sun this is top notch, grade A WoW information

usda prime even

geneva approved

[orchid frigate]

ugh played with a retpala when i was bear tanking. had forgotten how they can pull aggro

[steep bone]

I want to play wow, but its boring rn, i turn off game, im starring at desktop, thinking of playing other game, nothing is good enough, i come back to afk in zuldazar ;_;

[brittle owl]

just play neverwinter nights

or kotor

or witcher 3

[steep bone]

i played kotor, i dont like neverwinter

and i played witcher 4 times, its boring

[brittle owl]

mass effect 1 2 3

[steep bone]

i played me series like 20+ times

[brittle owl]

the new dooms

[steep bone]

i don't like doom / played once

[brittle owl]

fall guys?

[ionic fern]

OR..go off the PC.

👀

[brittle owl]

yeah

[steep bone]

im not interested in such games as fall guys

[brittle owl]

play existential dread

start working out to distract you from it

[steep bone]

working out can cause injures

[brittle owl]

if you're dumb sure

[ionic fern]

So can playing computer games tho

😂

[brittle owl]

if you're dumb sure

[ionic fern]

Anything can

[steep bone]

i was thinking of looking for work actually

[ionic fern]

If you're dumb.

🤷

[brittle owl]

sure

[steep bone]

but then going out of home while having serious social phobia is yikers

[brittle owl]

sitting for most of your day is more likely to cause injury in the long run than risking some sprains/tweaks while doing sports/working out doe

ez fix for that

just get so swole you intimidate people

[steep bone]

only workout i enjoy is bicycle

[brittle owl]

get quads bigger than someone's torso

no one will fuck with you

[steep bone]

im already... big lulw

[brittle owl]

accounting for the fact that your cyclist legs can kick em across the yard

[steep bone]

but back to games topic

[brittle owl]

fallout new vegas

[steep bone]

THERE'S NOTHING COOL

played it

[brittle owl]

agine

[steep bone]

right now im playing horizon zero dawn ;_;

[brittle owl]

meh

[steep bone]

but its get so repetetive and boring

it gets

[brittle owl]

play morrowind

[steep bone]

i played tes series religiously

and nonono ill spend 2 days of installing mods

[brittle owl]

morrowind always works

no mods

[steep bone]

just to turn on game and crash instantly

[brittle owl]

straight vanilla

[steep bone]

because too many mods

YIKERS

[brittle owl]

NO FUCKING MODS FOR MORROWIND

[steep bone]

TES without mods is like prot with vers

[brittle owl]

NO CHANGES

YOU'RE GONNA RUN LIKE A SNAIL AND YOU'LL LOVE IT

[steep bone]

https://tenor.com/view/no-bugs-bunny-nope-gif-14359850

[brittle owl]

imma be honest

this seems like a you problem

you know what's a gem

if you havent played it

psychonauts

[steep bone]

Umm

[brittle owl]

OR

[steep bone]

I think ill play spyro remastered

[brittle owl]

again if you havent played

jade empire

[steep bone]

maaan

[brittle owl]

that shit's so good

[steep bone]

if game isn't mmo

i dun like and get bored fast

[brittle owl]

if you liked mass errect

[steep bone]

so i always come back to wow

[brittle owl]

and rpgs in general

jade empire is something you need to play

back when bioware was still a good studio

[steep bone]

but its from 2k5

[brittle owl]

still good

it's amazeballs

[steep bone]

its ugly ;_;

[brittle owl]

and there's chinese tiddies in it

[steep bone]

u kno what

but installing OW to get tilted firs 2min into match and uninstall afterwards YIKERS

[brittle owl]

play jade empire

this is all i'll say

[steep bone]

[sturdy sun]

Play total war: Warhammer and plowed by NPCs for several hours

Quality time

[strong forum]

My recommendation is staring at the ceiling

Until SL

[still pagoda]

but installing OW to get tilted firs 2min into match and uninstall afterwards YIKERS
@steep bone

@strong forum my recommendation is to raid log only

until SL

[strong forum]

Nah, what's the point

[brittle owl]

banter with guildies

[still pagoda]

banter with guildies and lulz

[steep bone]

Guildies still need mounts, im feeling obligated to help

[still pagoda]

new DPS trials need mounts

i'm here to just chill and reclear with the guild

[sweet summit]

Fuck em

[brittle owl]

😳

[steep bone]

new DPS trials need mounts
@still pagoda our core needs still xD

And everyones tilting as they keep taking trials and ofc they get them.
Atleast im happy with mine lmao

[sweet summit]

imagine

giving trials

mount

before core team

trials are not people 😎

[steep bone]

Core people started having exams and other irl issues. Ofc they started having them just right after they got their mount so we gotta cover spots with them xD

And it ends up as taking garbo quality players into mythic to boost them for free

[still pagoda]

90% of our core is active

we just reclear for fun and chatter

i'm not really in core as i'm a tank trial

[steep bone]

I mean not like we can see that those people are playing or streaming other Games while telling us they gotta study so cannot attend for 1-1:20h once a week (wrath cara nzoth)

[still pagoda]

but oh well, no one wants me out so far. It's just typical post-prog trying out that takes ages

[gilded scroll]

Man if they’re gonna lie they should atleast make themselves invisible

[steep bone]

Well some people are not too smart to do such stuff xD

[gilded scroll]

Sounds like they need to actually study instead of gaming lol

[steep bone]

Or people legit logging 5m after raid ends

[sweet summit]

"will be a bit late to raid, bus is delayed"

streaming rainbow6siege

true story

[steep bone]

And when our rl pointed that out they just insta left Discord after raid xD

[novel ruin]

Lots of peeps don’t want to raid right now

It has been out for 8 months

[steep bone]

Still ive, no respect for people coming for raids just to get mount and never show up again

[novel ruin]

True that

[pearl summit]

I was put absolute last in line to get my mount due to my rl wanted to give the new tank practice as I'm leaving for SL

FeelsGoodMan

I got it yesterday coming in playing a gigascuffed arms warr with 0 experience

[novel ruin]

Arms warrior-get banished to the shadow realm

[sweet summit]

die arms die

[pearl summit]

💢

Arms is the least shit dps spec for warriors

[sweet summit]

arm bad

fury good

[pearl summit]

fury go face no brain

[sweet summit]

exactly

[pearl summit]

stand in poo and outheal

[sweet summit]

yep

[strong forum]

Die fury die.

[sweet summit]

shush nome

[strong forum]

Fuck

Outta

Here

[sweet summit]

no

[pearl summit]

I really like arms because it actually makes u use at least 10% of ur brain

[sweet summit]

🤔

[novel ruin]

Arms uses brain?

[pearl summit]

10% of it

Duh

Silly fury no brainer

[novel ruin]

Fury uses 10% of brain

[pearl summit]

-10%

[novel ruin]

Cuz gotta do mechanics

Idk how arms takes any brains cuz you spam 1 button

[pearl summit]

More planning, less reaction

[novel ruin]

You plan to press 1 button with lucid, thats it

[pearl summit]

making sure you have your big ToM's for key moments to deal good damage is not very easy tbh on some fights

[strong forum]

The good ol fury vs arms discussion

[pearl summit]

ye its literally whatever tho

[sweet summit]

lets not try to trick anyone, neither spec is "hard"

[novel ruin]

I can’t wait until ToM is gone

And lucid

And corruption

[pearl summit]

i yoinked cara wep with socket yesterday

[strong forum]

I can't wait until fury is gone.

Nvm it won't...

[novel ruin]

@strong forum You are yellow, you aren’t allowed to say such things

[pearl summit]

Say it again

[strong forum]

I am, I only have the prot tag

[novel ruin]

😦

[strong forum]

[brittle owl]

I can't wait until fury is gone.

[pearl summit]

[novel ruin]

Nom go become a BM main

[pearl summit]

Xan go become a BrM main

[brittle owl]

hello

i'm sorry sir but the smol pp club is in a discord called peak of serenity