I have a guildie who thinks tanks should go back to only being walls and not do any dps at all
#protection
grand drum
strong forum
ya gl
having the total amount of players that play tank be about 0.3 per guild at best
when its already getting diminishingly lower and lower
modern brook
I literally play warrior because ots a dps spec that cant die
still pagoda
in our guild*
we have both me and my co-tank
on top of 3 M+ tanks who DPS in raid or just socials
strong forum
for the entirety of BFA i was and still am the only tank that touched m+
in my guild and or friends circle
i had to carry through 60% of the guild through their weekly cuz nobody had a tank nor gave a fuck
tawny maple
I like to tank
But sometimes I wanna turn my brain off too
Raid tanking is boring as shit though
still pagoda
it's all the fucking same unless you have some tank that thinks that he needs to pull around his class
tawny maple
How so? I literally know nothing about bear
main vault
Yeah idk either
Routes are the same for Bear
The only differences are groups and comps, different skill levels
Not the class
grave lily
yea, maybe was just a weird guy
banking rage maybe? i couldn't figure it out and didn't care enough to ask
tame garden
Youd have to be a weird guy to play bear
grand drum
its the player, not the class
tawny maple
A bunch of small pulls into a big-ish one or?
grave lily
yea
grave lily
do bears care about getting hit in the back? that's something else that was creepy
tame garden
They cant dodge hits from behind
Not as important as not being able to block but still relevant
civic rover
pretty crazy that people still think tank meta matters when there's a bear in top ten tanks on IO.
just goes to show that you can play pretty much anything and be very successful
grave lily
i've always felt its the opposite, bad players need the handicap of meta classes
tawny maple
I've just always played what I found was fun unless it was literal garbage
But then to me it wouldn't be fun so
woven venture
Meta is path of least resistance. If certain specs are the easiest to time the highest keys with that is what will be played most, but it doesn't mean other stuff is unplayable at high levels.
That being said. Doubt a BDK could time the same level key a warrior could right now. There does come a level where every little bit counts.
civic rover
well yeah clearly at the highest level what tank you play can make a difference but when people are doing like 18/19 keys saying they want warrior and monk tanks only i just laugh lol
grave lily
full vers war for 18*
civic rover
mm yes the classic
brittle owl
highly doubt that
highest key done by a dk is 28 atm (ofc it's yard, but still)
i don't think tank choice will prevent you from doing any key
civic rover
from what i can see it looks like the highest is a 27 AD
grave lily
yea, the consensus is that if dratnos isn't currently casting your runs, you can probably play whatever
civic rover
survival hunter tank 😎
brittle owl
civic rover
oops i cant read
tame garden
Theres definitely a point where only warrior can time the key for a couple dungeons
Thanks to the bs that is spell reflect
grave lily
spell reflect is toxic
civic rover
i dont think it is
brittle owl
it's at the point where i think on tyr you kinda just skip it if you don't have a pwarr
civic rover
maybe im just dogshit at using it but every time i use it on stuff where people say it's OP it doesn't do that much damage
strong forum
the higher the key, the more OP it gets
brittle owl
^
civic rover
that would make a lot more sense
tame garden
On some bosses you will be top dps
brittle owl
on a 20 ot's whatever
tame garden
Its dumb
strong forum
up to where you do more than 120k dps on bosses
civic rover
laughs in 20s
brittle owl
on a 25 it can be the biggest source of damage on a boss
civic rover
ok that makes more sense thanks for clearing that up
grave lily
it trucks sisters as well, if you're "lucky"
brittle owl
outside of wcm it's not that egregious tho
tame garden
Shrine
strong forum
shrine and ML is quite banging
civic rover
first boss in temple
civic rover
can you still reflect all the cyclone things
grand drum
just one
brittle owl
wcm you have 2 bosses that you SR
tame garden
Shrine is almost as bad as waycrest
strong forum
na its only 1 cyclone
crystal dirge
does anyone know what causes saurids to jump off of snapspots?
brittle owl
shrine as well, now that i think of it
crystal dirge
sometimes they just decide to be retardo and get off on the healer/someone
grand drum
you dont have aggro on them
grave lily
im too chicken to reflect the sea blast or w/e on 1st boss shrine
brittle owl
esp on the first boss you can clunk him hard with good coordination
strong forum
WCM is obnoxious cuz maggots aswell, but shrine 1st and 3rd boss
crystal dirge
i have aggro on them ^^
tame garden
If you had aggro they would snap to you
strong forum
myrinä if the healer stands wrong he can get leapt on
especially the first one at rezan
that spot has the same elevation as the ledge on the left
so if your healer stands there he will still get leapt on
also if you really had aggro they snap to you
crystal dirge
they snap to me, then snap off, with the healer and the dh being in shadowmeld, not healing, not dpsing
strong forum
sounds like a clap issue tbh
strong forum
🤷♂️ thats the only reason i can think off
civic rover
i mean it seems like it's an obvious answer
tame garden
I mean either
- you don't have agro
- you're not standing in the right place
- someone else is also in the snap spot with you
crystal dirge
they let me clap 3x, then come out of their melds to start dpsing, and before anything is done, they start jumping off
we are snapping 5 packs to the weird sanguine snapspot
tame garden
Its gotta be one of those 3
crystal dirge
at the start
strong forum
the one on the entrance
crystal dirge
yeh
strong forum
i think you have to spam jump
to spam snap
cuz standing alone doesnt snap
i think
crystal dirge
healer was standing on stairs, we'll make him go higher up
civic rover
like the spot where tomoboar goes to?
strong forum
try on m0
tame garden
Gl gl
tame garden
Sucks to lose the key to this dumb glitch stuff
brittle owl
kinda ironic that glitches are the meta for timing keys
but also fuck up your key sometimes
tame garden
I wonder what level of atal would be doable if snapping saurids wasnt a thing
brittle owl
i mean
tame garden
That shit is deadly on fort
brittle owl
just brick your highest atal till you can do it ye
strong forum
youd just have to abuse rooting and gripping
brittle owl
maybe dk's would be more popular if snapping wasn't a thing
tame garden
Ye I guess youd just burst then inside a binding shot
strong forum
making warriors even more prevalent
raven knoll
is vision major the best dps essence for 15 keys? like to go fast
strong forum
pretty much
brittle owl
yes
raven knoll
okey thx
grave lily
clap root is addicting
civic rover
is prot actually looking as bad as people are saying it is
tame garden
Nah
tame garden
I'm jk
civic rover
people tend to exaggerate a lot in beta
grave lily
we deserved a nerf, its just not the one people wanted
civic rover
from what it looks like from what i've read
grand drum
its probably gonna be super good a patch or 2 into the expansion, or the other tanks will be nerfed right after launch
civic rover
it seems like prot will be more fun, but not as obscenely powerful
strong forum
will see
undone sun
feelings 
crystal dirge
snaps were too early
tame garden
It just wont be the best tank to start
strong forum
too early redirected?
strong forum
F
civic rover
i wonder if torghast will have rewards kind of like the mage tower
like weapon skins
or in druids case new bear forms
grave lily
give me back artifact weapon + bulwark and i'm happy
civic rover
i know a lot of people want mage tower skins to come back but maybe torghast could give alternatives, just a thought
like entirely new skins
strong forum
just like challenge mode gear and weapons
mage tower stuff should stay locked away
thats the reward for having gotten them, exclusivity
whats the point of something everybody can obtain easily? thats boring and not rewarding
civic rover
thats kinda my thinking, people played all of legion and didn't get them, thats on them. during antorus it got a lot easier.
civic rover
i got the druid one like when the mage tower first came out
grave lily
luffa abuser
civic rover
then just got all the others in antorus gear
strong forum
got warrior one like 3rd week it was possible, but i was below tos ilvl 🙃
civic rover
stud
civic rover
i only did druid one so early because i raided on druid a vast majority of legion
and because i was tired of mountain dew bear
soft prairie
higher Ilvl always better yes?
strong forum
the 485 is better yes
warm plinth
Yes
steep bone
we got dis ❤️
soft prairie
cheers, thanks
strong forum
big gamer
soft prairie
hype, gz!
steep bone
pogggggg ❤️
sweet summit
Grats mate
civic rover
i wanna tank nzoth on prot but my RL wants me to stay brew til we get a few more kills
strong forum
i like the part where you have big ass icons of your healers being dead
grave lily
would you get benched or would he give in
still pagoda
i wanna tank nzoth on prot but my RL wants me to stay brew til we get a few more kills
@civic rover
civic rover
i dont think he'd really care tbh
still pagoda
It's so far into the tier already
civic rover
just his preference i'll ask him lol
i want the helm and the carapace weapon on prot pretty badly
steep bone
Imagine being 4/12 with cutting edge
civic rover
lol
still pagoda
@steep bone gz
strong forum
thats the chad way
civic rover
he just told me i can next week LETS GO
civic rover
boutta get two characters 12/12
grave lily
when you wipe once and it's not your fault. he'll try to get you to relog
steep bone
@still pagoda thankzz
mellow patio
civic rover
my mythic parses are kinda booty ngl
strong forum
parsing this tier is a meme
crystal dirge
so, usually we play with rogue+hunter, but this time we had double hunter, and their md is only 8sec, so he was speedyboi with the snaps, and I got some mobs, during my jump up on the spot
and those were jumping off, the ones that were pulled with me already on the spot were gucci
strong forum
premature snap
obtuse yoke
@steep bone gratss
steep bone
cheers man
tbh skyhold halped me alot, without your knowledge, tips and such i'd still be pepega warrior
thanks guys
still pagoda
warm plinth
I've been in here for like 3 years and I'm still a pepega warrior
undone sun
4 years, same
civic rover
i think we're all pepegas in our own ways
sage granite
Guys what do you run in M+ heroic Phychic shell or mythic sigil or warding?
warm plinth
I would scrap Sigil tbh
sturdy gate
Any prot warriors looking for push group? 3.7k push group LF tank DM me
warm plinth
Psychic Shell is good if you need it
sage granite
I've not got good trinkets. My options are sigil, phychic shell, 470 butchers block, 475 razdunks red button or vial of animated blood
warm plinth
Probably butcher+shell or butcher+vial
sage granite
I have vita thankfully I just dont have other good options
sage granite
I think I need shell for motherlode, workshop and kings rest (zul fortified)
but yeah maybe for the rest I'll start using butchers
thanks mate 🙂
warm plinth
Sure
keen oasis
So, can someone explain to me how does "Shield Block" work in detail? Like, what exactly does it block ect. Because I am doubting if it only blocks melee when on Skitra who is 100% magic damage fight with bolts flying around I am getting blocks. I am just really confused.
warm plinth
It blocks things that Blizzard says it should block. The vast majority of which are melees and ranged (physical) projectiles. Though I'm not sure what you would be seeing blocks from on Skitra.
There's literally zero blockable mechanics/hits on that fight
Like unless you have a log showing you're blocking something, then I'd say you're just mistaken tbh.
keen oasis
Logs don't say I am blocking something, BUT filtering shield block in damage taken does change the numbers I get from total damage taken.
warm plinth
What do you mean filtering shield block? 🤔
Do you have a link to what you are seeing?
strong forum
no matter how i filter the logs, mitigated % isnt changing neither is average hit taken
so idk what youre looking at that gives you the idea youre blocking anything
what youre looking at is probably someone that happened to tank skitra less when he had shieldblock up
so obv hes gonna get less total dmg taken, if he doesnt tank
the only thing that could indicate that youre blocking anything would be a significant change in average hit taken and mitigated% during shiedblock windows
but this is not the case
keen oasis
avg hit with shield block on is 133k with 33% mitigation. That is from 8 hits. While without shield block on it's 158k avg with 22% mitigated with 15 hits.
warm plinth
It sounds like you're filtering attacks that happened with/without Shield Block active
Not attacks that were reduced by Shield Block
If the log doesn't say an attack was blocked, it wasn't
Regardless of whether SB is active or not
keen oasis
Alright, thanks for clarification.
strong forum
if anything was blocked, the difference would be bigger than 10%, more like 50-70%
keen oasis
So, just to be sure. That would mean that using Shield Block on Skitra is pure waste of rage?
warm plinth
Not really; it increases Shield Slam damage
strong forum
no, you wanna use it to increase Shiedslam damage
keen oasis
Well yeah, alright. There is that. I meant more in terms of mitigation.
strong forum
defensively it serves no purpose on skitra
pliant spire
=( , regrets not paying attention to math
trim bay
Hey guys. Second last boss on KR how come sometimes I "block" or mitigate the armour de buff the RHS boss gives after barrel through?
strong forum
you parry it
warm plinth
You can parry the backhand and/or the debuff
strong forum
theres 3 instances to what you can parry on that boss funnily enough
This attack does, knockback, debuff and damage
you can parry either of these 3 things, or all at the same time
trim bay
Ahhh ok awesome. Thanks again
strong forum
its just so weird like, you can get knocked back and get the debuff, you can also get knocked back and not get the debuff
you can not get knocked back and get the debuff, you can not get knocked back and also not get the debuff
its so weird
muted wedge
what should i prepot during m+?
muted wedge
ty
still pagoda
So, can someone explain to me how does "Shield Block" work in detail? Like, what exactly does it block ect. Because I am doubting if it only blocks melee when on Skitra who is 100% magic damage fight with bolts flying around I am getting blocks. I am just really confused.
@keen oasis
There is nothing to block on skitra
i still use SB for damage tho
raven knoll
does ML endboss do anything that i shoudl shieldblock? or only IP
still pagoda
nothing to SB
3rd and 4th bosses of ML are purely magical
except for drill smash
but you won't be able to block this for sure 
raven knoll
do you guys change anything for this dungeon essence wise? the last boss felt hard on tyranical week for me
still pagoda
Lucid
a good additional CD is always good
but this major is exceptional in ML
just as it is exceptional for higher keys in general
raven knoll
thanks
sudden snow
to stay below 40 corruption at max cape and what not, TD6 or TD3 + others?
raiding that is
at 480 ilvl
pastel crown
Can you combo intervene and spell reflect?
sudden snow
ya ya, i mean on tuesday i'll be able to be below 40 with either TD6 alone, or TD3+ others
was wodnering what'd be better
sudden snow
rgr
pastel crown
I was soloing ML on Mythic and noticed I could spell reflect the homing missile on the last boss. Since in a normal group it’s not cast on tanks I never really thought to try an intervene spell reflect combo.
still pagoda
damage in Nya is low to warrant defensive setups
sudden snow
so TD6 it is
pastel crown
What do you do on Mauts shield to avoid the kickback damage?
pastel crown
I took damage from collecting an orb and crit for like the 600k and killed myself.
woven trellis
do i really need to do weeks of pvp for CnS rank 3?
still pagoda
my last log from maut
pastel crown
We were doing progression attempts and I decided that it’s not worth the death
woven trellis
whats the best way to acquire it
still pagoda
it went so smooth that i didn't even notice incoming damage from kickback
pastel crown
does anyone know the answer to the intervene spell reflect combo?
warm plinth
@woven trellis Get to 1600, then just cap conquest for 3 weeks
Was it a full reflect Griftiest?
Like it did no damage, no debuff to you?
pastel crown
The homing missile? Yeah it was a full reflect, but again I was solo.
warm plinth
I'm not 100% sure how SR works in that instance. I know that intercepting can cause debuffs to go to you though so it's worth trying at least.
pastel crown
It only did 50k damage on regular mythic but I figured it would scale
limpid pawn
Vivv how many pulls was that nzoth kill
warm plinth
I just don't know if it would properly register as coming from the enemy or not
pastel crown
And it definitely would be worth a tru
limpid pawn
Honestly I think my guild is going to go into 700+ territory for sure
still pagoda
limpid pawn
We at 300 pulls
Me and my girl already bought the nzoth mounts each for 2 mil a piece lol
So IDGAF anymore
still pagoda
trim bay
sorry for all the questions. i use the mecha rings that give the haste buff at 465. i have 475 rings. the mecha rings are what im meant to be using?
valid heart
Hey guys, i have been trying to push 19-20 Keys but have problems on how to start a pull.
For instance on motherloas after first boss, my group and i wanne do 2-3 packs. How do you guys normally start of such a pull? CD wise. I normally find myself going very low or flat out dying.
atomic shore
Guys is there are guide for all reflactable spells in M+ BFA ?
warm plinth
@trim bay The mecha set (haste proc) is worth approximately 15 ilevels altogether.
Is where the reflect/block spreadsheet is
It's not all the spells but it's noteable ones/boss ones
trim bay
@warm plinth thanks
warm plinth
Hey guys, i have been trying to push 19-20 Keys but have problems on how to start a pull.
For instance on motherloas after first boss, my group and i wanne do 2-3 packs. How do you guys normally start of such a pull? CD wise. I normally find myself going very low or flat out dying.
@valid heart Assign kicks, charge in, rotate kicks/CCs on rock lances
I use heroic throw to pull additional packs
So if you do like...left pack, right pack and the second pack on the right, you'd want ranged to kick the far earthshaper
So that it runs to you
frozen cosmos
best trinkets for 15-20 keys?
valid heart
Oki so you charge to left pack and you use heroic throw to pull the two right packs?
valid heart
Ye prob better
warm plinth
But honestly you can just body pull the left pack probably and tclap and hit both left and right
Then you just have to worry about the far right one
valid heart
I Will try that
warm plinth
Just remember that you do not want your back to any of those mobs
Throw Rock can and will decimate you
valid heart
I have noticed
It was for sure a learning curve to tank and play prot. Ty for all the help 😊
vital stratus
QQ - if i am running 15-18 keys, I am still not supposed to stack vers?
still pagoda
Just remember that you do not want your back to any of those mobs
@valid heart @warm plinth another decimating mob ability in this dungeon is Throw Wrench
warm plinth
Yeah, though you can stun/LoS/basically anything those mobs
warm plinth
And it'll cancel
They only cast it once
So it's much easier than throw rock to handle
It also doesn't randomly insta-gib your DPS lol XD
still pagoda
all wrenches are going into the highest threat target
vital stratus
i have 2 IFT rank 1s, and TD 4 atm, but curious if I did stack vers that would make 15-18s much easier
still pagoda
so you're fine just not showing your back to them
i have 2 IFT rank 1s, and TD 4 atm, but curious if I did stack vers that would make 15-18s much easier
@vital stratus
NO
it won't
still pagoda
:D
valid heart
Ye i noticed the first three mobs of the dungeon use that ability and first time i didnt have shield Block on and i got 1 hit by 3 casts xD
still pagoda
This is a safe space
A definite answer requires a definite approach :D
warm plinth
All the laborers use it; there's a couple other pulls in the middle that have them
But like the pull by the middle house, you can just pull them then go into the house
valid heart
Secound time i did the pull i used shockwave so i could build rage and get shield Block first xD
warm plinth
And they won't recast it
drifting gale
Hey guys, I just got the Darkshore head Deathguard's Casque with the perma vers trait is that worth at 460 compared to the 480's with HoD? anyone have any info
main vault
No
autumn pendant
Def no
rare peak
@drifting gale 480 better at least more strength
warm plinth
Way more strength, way more stam, way more armor
woven idol
Last stand and rallying cry, the hp it gives is lost at the end of the buff correct? And can it kill you if you are below that 15%?
warm plinth
All the traits are better
main vault
It’s relative hp so no
hallow phoenix
no rambo
main vault
That’s not how it works
If you have 15% hp and Last Stand fades you still have 15% hp, just of a smaller number
woven idol
Oh I see, thanks!
main vault
Heal works the same way
drifting gale
thanks guys
woven trellis
is it hard to go 1k6+ in pvp?
warm plinth
Not really. Especially if you can play DPS at all
woven trellis
i just started and i have no good pvp corrupt
warm plinth
You can't even lose rating until around 1400
main vault
Yeah that is the ez bit
main vault
Since like ghash said you don’t lose til just over 1300
They don’t
You pretty much Zerg until 1800 or so
main vault
Can meme as prot
main vault
Yes
woven trellis
doenst do a lot of dmg tho
people will just burst my ally
and ill be left alone after
main vault
1600 is like heroic raid level at best
woven trellis
i rly lack pvp basics tho
main vault
That’s why you TD and pray for procs lol
warm plinth
I got 1600 on my warrior doing prot/frost mage/resto druid 3s 😂
Fuck this no global emojis thing
woven trellis
pumps?
undone sun
pumps
woven trellis
what does it mean
main vault
Means “literal tank god”
woven trellis
why is he only at 2k5 rio
main vault
He and his cotank are #2 and #3 on wcl all stars
woven trellis
so he just focus on raiding and not on m+?
woven trellis
good
main vault
But
woven trellis
i always thought people that had high raid objectives would want to perform in m+ as well
main vault
He also was runner up in the first ever MDI
woven trellis
oh he probably just didnt care for last season so
woven trellis
i6
warm plinth
Yeah I don't either
still pagoda
better off doing last boss with spider no matter the week
warm plinth
Always do spider with boss
still pagoda
than facing matron and spicy packs in the basement
also...
friendship with Bartender4 and SUF has ended. Now ElvUI is my friend like it was before
forgot to turn off SexyMap
:D
warm plinth
ngl that map would tilt me
still pagoda
now it's all set
huge thanks to Vivv for his WA's
wanted to move away from Afenar's due to duration/CD overlaps and other wonky stuff
raven knoll
can you explain how the marks in bottom left cornor work?
raven knoll
like do you just klick them and they mark?
distant crystal
kek
raven knoll
and what addon is it
distant crystal
yo i'm actually just replying to old chat in every discord
still pagoda
can you explain how the marks in bottom left cornor work?
@raven knoll
Exorsus Raid Tools
CR cooldown timer is from it too
i just do click them
and they mark
big icons are for target marks
small circles underneath are for land marks
raven knoll
noice i might try it out. the normal interface doesnt have it that clean
steep bone
@still pagoda im actually happy people like my wa rips
still pagoda
i think i'm going to make paladin one akin to it in SL prepatch
since it is a pain to refit UI for every different WA placement
steep bone
Btw how come theres empty box in bottom row next to charge?
still pagoda
maybe it is because you have cooldown progress as a trigger for every single part of essences
???
steep bone
Probs, i just made one wa with almost all essences
still pagoda
it's fine
steep bone
But i havent done testing with all of them
steep bone
I will look into that once im at PC
steep bone
Probs just delete triggers for cnf and vop and it should dissapear
exotic spoke
sup prot qtpies
still pagoda
apparently
Probs just delete triggers for cnf and vop and it should dissapear
@steep bone Reverse engineering other essence WA
there is a separate trigger for CD's
still pagoda
yeah
steep bone
I didnt thought about that xd and ive that essence wa since essences came out and i was remaking Fragnance dh Auras xD
still pagoda
changed Trigger 4 in yours to Heart Essence and now it shows
steep bone
Might Aswell delete triggers for cnf vop and put something like trinket on that spot but only if those are not present
steep bone
Get sharedmedia addon, You will have fancy fonts 😄
steep bone
Ill fix, and probs make bottom row as another dynamic group
With trinkets in it and such
still pagoda
i see
it locks the trigger into the a certain major after applying Heart Essence
hmm
the one i'm looking at is made out of 2 separate triggers with dynamic info being dropped from Trigger 1 to Trigger 2
i have an idea
steep bone
Theres another way of just making that certain aura with triggers only for essences You are actually using
still pagoda
Export -> Import
and reverse engineer later on
i understand now @steep bone
Trigger 2 is the trigger for knowing the spell
though
still doesn't change when changing major slot
still pagoda
it changes Heart Essence into the essence name right after inserting
which is strange
craggy harness
My aura was always specific to each effect
not the neck item, if i remember correctly
still pagoda
hmm... Maybe because of this? @steep bone
found this in the group of the aura i'm tinkering with rn
inserting this return function into the main group can cause a lot of problems tho
but if we move the essences aura out of it
it may actually work
steep bone
Dunno really, ill look into it soonish
still pagoda
@steep bone Easiest fix to the problem is just placing Thunderstruck instead of Conflict and Strife in trigger 4(already applied myself)
but i think i'm going to dig deeper into the ways to make it into one icon
right now it replaces Heart Essence in spell name with currently equipped major
pastel sleet
for those that are running vers set up, how much vers are you at>
pastel crown
I am at 42% in my vers build, like 3500 or so
It tbh I don’t do high enough keys for it to matter and I just run td5 most of the time.
sick sentinel
5200 59%
steep bone
@still pagoda I'm actually reworking it a bit
obtuse yoke
@pastel crown im basically the same vers at 3200, i only run it if i'm doing a 22 and the dungeon scares me a bit
and if i trust my dps
steep bone
Bolster talent makes me block all melee attacks for full duration of LS or regular shield block duration?
oblique garnet
Full duration of ls
oblique garnet
Sp topping 
still pagoda
good Sp's can easily top the meters
oblique garnet
Eh
stiff inlet
RIP that fury warr
grand drum
that fury damage looks low
stiff inlet
Must have been running TD?
steep bone
i'd say he lost zaps
still pagoda
3 times he lost zaps
when he was alive, he did some good dam
but otherwise lost few zaps and died 2 times on last boss
steep bone
dying as furry 
still pagoda
grand drum
time a 21 jy where a rogue lost 5 shock bots, and we wiped on the last boss
grand drum
the healer kept getting hit by the beams and died and then we all died from pulsing damage
toxic remnant
Why's mechagon chest good? The clockwork trait?
sweet summit
Ye
woeful estuary
Would it be my fault if we were close to timing an 11 and two dps died and we missed the timer by like 45 seconds on Seige of Boralus
steep bone
How would it be your fault?
grand drum
sounds like low dps fault, unless you pulled too slow or something
woeful estuary
We never wiped the whole dungeon
I pulled by big groups
I skipped most of dungeon with obs
grand drum
what was everyones overall dps? sounds like low dps to me
steep bone
and others?
woeful estuary
So basically I need to find better dps
We would have timed it
Two of them died on the last boss fight
And we couldn’t kill all the tenticles to shoot the last cannon to kill boss
steep bone
if dps are dying on last boss it is either their fault for getting hit by avoidable mechanics or healer's fault for not dispeling/healing
steep bone
or yours for not tanking demolishing tentacles
steep bone
on second platform you shouldn't touch grippling tentacle until first demo is down, you get better uptime on it afterwards
hard to say if you don't have any logs or anything like healing meters, cds used, dispels etc
woeful estuary
How do I get my logs
steep bone
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ make an account, download their program, log in, type in game /combatlog (make sure to enable advanced combat logging in system > network)
grand drum
do you have details? it should show you these things too
steep bone
^ that too
woeful estuary
I have details
steep bone
if healer wasn't dispeling on last boss which is rather normal for pugs in such keys then they'll die
woeful estuary
Like I’m 471 and it just seems like I can’t progress on anything because people continue to wipe like they are playing with their head cut off every dungeon
steep bone
Do you have any TD? With that ilvl you should be able to basically solo dps +11
steep bone
That's weird
woeful estuary
Weird how
steep bone
with bigger pulls, TD and 471 ilvl in 11 you pretty much would carry trash pulls damage
woeful estuary
Yeah of course on every pull I pull around 80-90k dps
But after the dungeon I see around 35k average
steep bone
have you had any other wipes?/
steep bone
that looks like mystery to me then
woeful estuary
Maybe I just suck -_-
toxic remnant
Disregard secondary stats acquire more TD
primal dune
civic rover
kervy how much td you running
steep bone
just take a screenshots
woeful estuary
No I started like 3 months ago
Maybe 4-5
I have around 50 some I think
So I can’t fit another one
steep bone
@woeful estuary if you're using MDT you can check my route that im doing in pugs which always (well there are some exceptions) works https://pastebin.com/5FRjJcWF
After 3 months you should already be capped on resistance
steep bone
whats your /played at 120?
woeful estuary
How do I check that
steep bone
just type /played ingame
novel ruin
35k overall? Are you pressing procced revenges? Just coached a guy who wasn’t doing this in 19/20s and wondering why he was doing 40-45k overall
steep bone
oof that's not much played then
woeful estuary
Like if I just click damage done?
steep bone
@woeful estuary |
Hint: win+shift+s if you've win10 for easy screenshots of selected parts of your screen
woeful estuary
I know that, just trying to find out how to show overall dps
novel ruin
Yes ty
woeful estuary
I only did a very underwhelming 28k
novel ruin
40% with TD?
onyx vessel
I dont use td
novel ruin
That’s why
woeful estuary
What's wrong?
novel ruin
@woeful estuary Your percentages look roughly what they normally are. You may be skipping GCDs instead of filling them.
woeful estuary
In other terms what does that mean
onyx vessel
Just gotta get a better weapon
novel ruin
Then yeah, you are prob not pressing enough buttons
onyx vessel
Make sure tclap is on cd
novel ruin
^
onyx vessel
Ez 50kdps
novel ruin
Not in siege
onyx vessel
Fuck siege
woeful estuary
How much dps should I be doing in seige
novel ruin
Dps is variable
sweet summit
Entirely up to key level, how you pull other dps etc
novel ruin
But it’ll be less than other dungeons by a fair bit
novel ruin
Prob do about 2/3rds dps in a siege than other keys
woeful estuary
So would 28k be acceptable on seige or should I be doing more
novel ruin
If you are pulling 50k normally in most dungeons around the 15 level you are prob doing mostly everything right
In my 23/24/25 keys I pull 60-80k (besides JY) dps and siege is usually 40-45k
woeful estuary
I just feel very demoralized when I can’t time an 11
At 471 item lvl
Sometimes*
novel ruin
Siege is the hardest dungeon in the game
woeful estuary
Yeah but at an 11 it shouldn’t be too bad
sweet summit
Is this alliance siege 
woeful estuary
Wdym alliance seige?
novel ruin
Alliance and horde siege have different first bosses and trash before first boss
sweet summit
Dungeon is different for horde and ally
sweet summit
Same
novel ruin
Plus alliance has RP after 3rd boss
Alliance sieges will always be 1-2 key levels lower than Horde sieges
woeful estuary
It’s an alliance seige
novel ruin
But yeah, you should be able to time an 11 going one pack at a time with competent dps
woeful estuary
But I feel that my dps isn’t competent
novel ruin
So 40ish k overalls for a dps
woeful estuary
For my dps?
novel ruin
No
sweet summit
We all do
novel ruin
The dps in your group
woeful estuary
But some of my dps only did 28k
novel ruin
Your dps as a tank matters very little
woeful estuary
And 30k
novel ruin
That’s really low
woeful estuary
Yes
novel ruin
Top level sieges usually sit 70-80k dps as a DPS, not tank
novel ruin
That’s low
steep bone
were you giving assa time to restealth between pulls?
sweet summit
Top level siege has spotter doing 200k overall
novel ruin
So don’t blame yourself for the missed timer
woeful estuary
Yes
He had plenty of time
So how would I better that tho?
Transfer to the horde
steep bone
inspect people before you start key with them and just leave when they're undergeared
novel ruin
Send to me and we can go through it
woeful estuary
For the better players?
sweet summit
Or at least log
woeful estuary
What do I record it on?
novel ruin
I use Windows game bar
woeful estuary
Okay I’ll do that
Thank you 🙂
So if dps isn’t pulling high and we fail timer that isn’t necessarily my fault?
novel ruin
Yes and no
trim bay
no
novel ruin
Improvement can always happen
woeful estuary
Obviously I want to be the best prot warrior I can be
novel ruin
Perhaps you weren’t doing something that could allow that dps spec to shine
woeful estuary
Fair
novel ruin
Like pulling around CDs, etc
limpid pawn
I don’t think my guild is going to kill mythic nzoth lol
novel ruin
Maybe pulling dangerous inefficient trash so dps has less uptime, etc
woeful estuary
How many mobs should I be pulling at once?
woeful estuary
I’ll have to record a video
novel ruin
Yeah
chilly brook
I 100% disagree that your dps as a tank matters very little
Especially when as a tank I can be doing as much if not more than a DPS if rng is in my favor
Granted all of that is meaningless if you're dead because you're not playing properly and if you're not setting your group up for success
novel ruin
Sure, maybe that was the wrong way of wording it
But tank dps should not be a concern if you are pressing your buttons generally correct which by his breakdown, he is.
novel ruin
A tank has a lot to add to a dungeon run and their personal dps is much less of a factor than the dps
In timing said dungeon
novel ruin
Out of the keys I’ve done, there are very few keys where I’ve said that we didn’t time it cuz my personal damage was lower than it should have been
chilly brook
Yeee but also when your TD drops a mob pack from 40% to 0 instantly and it happens frequently in a dungeon that time adds up
novel ruin
I don’t run TD in my keys
chilly brook
I'm a dirty DH now so I just TD go brrrrr
novel ruin
Some days I miss it
chilly brook
Cuz y'know I do no damage without it
novel ruin
Than I think about how much worse 25 Rezan bleed would be without vers
chilly brook
Yea 20 Rezan bleed is already unpleasant without vers
Still completely negated by CDs tho
novel ruin
On a 20, yeah
novel ruin
I have no Nzoth trinket 😦
novel ruin
And can’t be bothered to grind heroic for it
But at least means I can still use vita hehe
chilly brook
475 Vita and 475 Scale gang
trim bay
how much vers are we talking for a 20 ad
sweet summit
Dont need anything really
buoyant walrus
Is rank 2 TD worth grabbing? Or should I just hold out for rank 3?
strong forum
There's no difference between getting individual ranks of TD, it just makes it easier to shift around a few corruptions if you run TD2 instead of TD3
modern brook
^ and td costs so much you dont have to worry about slot economy
buoyant walrus
Oh ok thank you
orchid halo
How's everyone dealing with zuul this week? Getting absolutely trucked by him unless we pop lust
ionic fern
On fortified weeks you are supposed to lust him if the key is high enough.👀
Try to have all your CD's once you get to him and rotate them,use all your rage on IP and ask for the healer external (or if you're not on voice track it when the healer uses it so you don't overlap another big cd on it). Hope your dps will be solid and kill it before you die. If needed and you have room you can also kite him.
sweet summit
Clean one shot wdym
strong forum
Na i doubt dk could handle that
Cuz he can't spam DS back to back to back to back for 2min straight
rapid trench
You might not have to
strong forum
This is 300k+ dtps
rapid trench
This is a hypothetical right Im assuming the dk would stack vers as well
strong forum
I mean it could work yea
rapid trench
Dh defo better
strong forum
But vdh straight up ignores zul
rapid trench
But dk wins stylepoints tho if pulled off
strong forum
Not for me cuz I hate bdk with a burning passion 🙃
rapid trench
Thats guardian druid for me :D
strong forum
Guardians hardly have a fanbase, not much to hate there
rapid trench
Ive known a few diehard guardians in my time, and its never been pleasant
sweet summit
Bear and dead tank is ok
But pink prot on the other hand...
brittle owl
pink prot slaps
only tank thats hated both by those playing it and those that don't is brm tbh
strong forum
Sounds about right
orchid frigate
think i need a new AD route. been running with variants of this but it seems that it's not the usual "pug" route
so how are people usually doing AD? 🙂
brittle owl
last time i did a key that was more or less my route
orchid frigate
start with going left, doing alun'za, out on the bridge and then down to rezan?
orchid frigate
yupp
brittle owl
last time i did a key was 2 months ago though so take that with a grain of salt
strong forum
There's actually so many ways to do AD Im never sure which is the better one to run
leaden dune
Need a good tank here
still pagoda
leaden dune
Messaged you karton
sweet summit
I am very good :^ )
leaden dune
@sweet summit messaged you
sweet summit
Mwahi is the best tank
strong forum
I thought fem was the best tank
sweet summit
"Fem is the best tank ive ever seen"
sweet summit
Mhm
strong forum
Unluck
brittle owl
sweet summit
👀
leaden dune
Haha was fo I buy 445 td3 globes
But I have now
As I’m leveling so be huge boost soon as 120
devout stirrup
Hey guys, I am contemplating which essence to unlock next for my prot warr alt since I finally got echoes for it, Atm I have vision as major, warden as minor, conflict as minor and can't decide what to unlock for the 3rd minor (m+ purposes), choices I have pretty much are aegis, lucid & nullification
(can only afford one atm)
sweet summit
Lucid
strange tide
Lucid is peng, as the young ones say
devout stirrup
Alright, going for lucid then, do I ever swap out any of the ones I named for let's say aegis or nullification? Not warden tho cos I need that one for corruption res
sweet summit
Not really
You can use null in workshop or raids for dps
Othrr than that i like to swap warden for sphere if i dont need the resistance
devout stirrup
Yeah well, sphere is like the only essence I don't have at all so that is a nobrainer for me I suppose
sweet summit
Well get rank 1
Thats all you need
devout stirrup
Doesn't aegis beat it in heavy aoe such as freehold pulls tho?
sweet summit
If you constantly have 6 or more mobs around you aegis is more stats iirc
modern brook
Othrr than that i like to swap warden for sphere if i dont need the resistance
@sweet summit this but an hour later
sweet summit
what
sweet summit
but why
strong forum
🤷♂️
novel ruin
If you have 6 or more mobs around you aegis beats out conflict for stats.
woeful estuary
What faction do you guys play on?
main vault
There is only one faction now
sweet summit
OCE is still a faction!
main vault
🤔
sweet summit
isnt oce ally 🤔
woeful estuary
I’m debating with a friend to swap to the horde from alliance
sweet summit
why?
woeful estuary
Because I’ve played on both and it seems like the basic player base on alliance just isn’t good
I play on sargeras
sweet summit
both are like that mate
theres just more players on horde
so "easier" to find better players
woeful estuary
And horde has cooler races imo
sweet summit
belf ❤️
woeful estuary
Yuck Fortnite
main vault
I would bet there is a correlation between Ally players and Fortnite players
sweet summit
only good thing alliance has going for them is dwarf racial imo
strong forum
If you aren't planning on doing pve content above +15s and heroic raiding alliance is perfectly fine. If you try to go beyond that, it gets quite hard to find good guilds / people
Outside of that, alliance should be just fine.
Especially pvp
sweet summit
you can """"easily""""" find a CE guild on ally
but LFG is completely empty compared to horde
thats the biggest difference ive found
still pagoda
I’m debating with a friend to swap to the horde from alliance
@woeful estuary
There's no debate unless you're OCE
RIP EU-Гордунни
woeful estuary
I do want to push higher than a 15 and progress, so horde it is then
sweet summit
you can defo pug way higher than 15s on ally
still pagoda
I pugged up to 19s before moving to horde this May
novel ruin
At this point you can do up to 23s on alliance and be fine
After that point people tend to invite people they have made friends with to the higher keys. Or be a solid tank and get whispered from people you’ve never spoken to before asking for you to tank a key
woeful estuary
Fair
modern brook
imo
its not that alliance is bad or incapable of doing higher content
its that the only ppl that play alliance are 12 year olds and asmongold
novel ruin
That’s false
There are more alliance players than Horde
There are just more high-end Horde players
novel ruin
So if you are interested in pigging 23+ keys and having more CE guild options then go Horde
Pugging*
sweet summit
agreed
modern brook
😏
novel ruin
Lol
woeful estuary
;^)
novel ruin
Play what you like though. And what your eventual goals are. If you are doing 11-15s rn, 23s are a far cry away
Alliance has better racials in BFA for M+ anyways
modern brook
^