protection

[steep bone]

ineffable

[modern brook]

Friend people you like
@novel ruin dont do this

u dont want to look desperate

its better to ignore them and hope your absense will make them miss you

CR>BS right?

choices are between cr +DC vs BS +DC

[civic rover]

why would you not add good people

literally the easiest way to push keys if you don't have a consistent group is to add people who you know will actually perform well

[modern brook]

it was a meme

[civic rover]

im dumb

[modern brook]

in fairness it wasnta good one

so CR >BS?

[sweet summit]

yeh

[modern brook]

<#

[left hatch]

IF

and only if

you were versa stacking id say BS would be better

cause its a fairly sizeable increase to IP

[modern brook]

LOL nonono i have a 440 shield

[left hatch]

but both are basically do nothing

compared to better traits

[novel ruin]

^

[modern brook]

yeah my 3rd option is 2 DC

[left hatch]

tbh id go that lmfao

[novel ruin]

Yeah no

I wouldn’t

[left hatch]

if you donig like sub 20's

[novel ruin]

2 DC adds very little

[modern brook]

I do sub 20s but i also dont use ignore pain

all rage -> revenge

[left hatch]

damage wise itll add more than the revenge does

i think

[novel ruin]

😮

[left hatch]

and sub 20 who cares about the survivability benefit as small as CR

youd have to sim to double check if thats accurate tho

[novel ruin]

Must also be a person who doesn’t clap during Avatar

[sweet summit]

id take a 2nd dc over cr or bs

large dam :)

[modern brook]

is formless void worth a minor consideration?

[sweet summit]

yeah

its better than warden if someone is using breath or cof major

as a major its fun to play with, steal lucid iris or bote zugzug

[upper violet]

Shrine isn’t horrible this week
fake news

its always horrible

no matter what affixes

[frosty granite]

hey all so i think i finished assembling a tank set after transitioning from fury. if i'm tryna tank 15's-20's what corruptions/gear should i get?

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9TFuNKb5j3ybugCZzPKzBX

[upper violet]

get td

[frosty granite]

can i just purify everything and go full td lol

sounds like fun

[upper violet]

enchant haste

and enchant force multi on weapon

[frosty granite]

only have 12% vers rn thats fine?

[upper violet]

other than that ur gear is pretty soild

yeah below 20 no need for fersa

versa*

[frosty granite]

cool cool ty for the help

[gusty bear]

i remember seeing something about trinkets, anyone have the link to that i skimmed the resource page and didnt see it

[left hatch]

Vita+Scale are gonna be your best combo below the 20 range

20-25ish Vita + LPS

25+ LPS+Alchemist stone

[sacred roost]

for m+, what are the trinkets of choice? Humming and Gore?

[novel ruin]

@sacred roost Read right above your post

[tropic nexus]

I am trying to build a damage oriented build for m+ carries, I am focusing on getting haste/versa (but considering crit because of parry, but don't know how reliable that is) and then twilight devastation. Is there anyone who does this who can already tell me if it sucks or if its fun? I want to boost 10-15, hoping that I could do enough damage so I can have 2 people boosted at once in a +10

[left hatch]

best statline is likely to be haste/crit

[strong forum]

its actually recommended to go haste/crit for m+

[left hatch]

for solely damage

tons of TD

[strong forum]

for dmg and defensive purposes, since in lower keys magic dmg is irrelevant so the massive amount of parry gained from crit outweighs vers quite alot

[still pagoda]

parry outweighs vers a lot till +22 for sure

[upper violet]

Also crit nice damage

[gusty bear]

im looking defensive purposes

[left hatch]

Vita+Scale are gonna be your best combo below the 20 range
@left hatch

its the same answer

you can scroll up to the rest of it

[raven knoll]

do i lose lots of dmg when i swap from vision to lucid major?

[left hatch]

if you pull around it you'll gain a lot of damage

[still pagoda]

did +22ToS today

sadly a brick

but i kinda get how much quality of life CnS major is this week

https://raider.io/mythic-plus-runs/season-bfa-4/22856623-22-temple-of-sethraliss

DPS make few mistakes and deaths

[raven knoll]

legit? how comes that i gain dmg? just cause of the rage i get?

[still pagoda]

and it's an instabrick

[strong forum]

cuz of the "big pulls"

[still pagoda]

legit? how comes that i gain dmg? just cause of the rage i get?
@raven knoll

Because you can pull big around it

[strong forum]

however this week you will do shit dmg regardless cuz necrotic

[left hatch]

you have higher uptime of avatar during high value moments

[strong forum]

and bursting

[still pagoda]

leading to being unkillable for 40 seconds

[left hatch]

since you can control when you have giga avatar windows they'er (in theory) better value avatar windows

plus the extra avatar gains the full value of BoM instead of 1/3 of it

[raven knoll]

i see thanks lots! is the essence itself such a big deff cd that i could for example leave shieldblock out? or just an addition to other cds in my kit

[left hatch]

you never drop shieldblock

even with something as strong as shieldwall

lucid is kinda just an extra thing to use roughly on cd

it doesn't replace anything else in your kit

[still pagoda]

i see thanks lots! is the essence itself such a big deff cd that i could for example leave shieldblock out? or just an addition to other cds in my kit
@raven knoll

It is more of a combined CD which you pull around

[raven knoll]

thanks i see

[still pagoda]

you will not leave SB out

but it is strong if utilized properly and for maximum effect

[left hatch]

yeh its something you have to

1. plan usage around
   and
2. be comfy with not rage capping during it

for it to be effective

VoP is technically weaker but its braindead

and therefore hella easier

[still pagoda]

^

for example

talking of DPS essences for tanks

best universal/AoE DPS essence for prot paladins is WR

it is not braindead compared to VoP

since you can pull around its 1min cd

[left hatch]

a good analogy is like... BoTE vs. iris for a dps class. a good number of melees prefer BoTE but it requires having a large batch of enemies and comboing it with your other cds. while iris ist just a button your press and it goes BRRRRR when in aoe on cd

its not as good a choice but if you're not planning around cd usage to that degree

it can be better

[still pagoda]

BoTE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt0Oxah2G7s&t=1605s****

[raven knoll]

the thing is about ragecapping sometimes i have like lots of rage but freeproccs like shieldslam reset revenge free ect. do i just try to dumb the rage into ignore pain even tho its still absorbing dmg? it feels like i have too much rage to dump

[still pagoda]

you know what this madman did here @left hatch

unironically

[left hatch]

yes

[still pagoda]

BotE is a great choice if you have one dps running it in your group

[left hatch]

overcapping IP is MUCH MUCH better than overcapping rage

[still pagoda]

^

you rarely look at IP absorb

[left hatch]

like tbh if you're anywhere close to 20 you don't wanna press revenge unless free at all

cause in some cases pressing it is a dps loss

[still pagoda]

but more look on your rage bar and whether you can dump that rage into Anger Management

[raven knoll]

can you explain how its a dmg los?

[still pagoda]

wasted GCD

that you could utilize on a TC

revenge hits like a wet noodle

[raven knoll]

so if my rage is going full but i have def shit up and im in avatar and im only worrying about dps ill clap on cd and dumb rage into ignore pain

[strong forum]

always do that

[still pagoda]

you always do that

just watch for 30 rage when you need to refresh SB

[left hatch]

yeh its a less efficient spender than IP

[raven knoll]

yep i fell into that trap of it running out and not haven 30

[left hatch]

so it can slow down rage gen/spending

and slow down the rest of your kit

[raven knoll]

am i even using free revenge procc during avatar ? only if clap is on cd or? like between 2 claps

[still pagoda]

when TC and Slam are on cd

[left hatch]

only if clap and SS are on cd

[still pagoda]

which means every once in a while when you get proc and have spare gcd

otherwise

all the other spare gcds into devastate

you won't have many of them

[left hatch]

yeh esp with 2IT1's i find myself hitting revenge less and less

too many clapssss

too many slammms

when does it end

[still pagoda]

that would be a good example

opener on mythic ilgy prog kill

with me taking the boss first

[raven knoll]

thanks lots for the infos guys! i got my ITs too and felt overwellmed by the buttons i could press when it procced

[left hatch]

yeh, try not to overthink it

you're doing the same stuff as before it

just.. faster and more often lol

[raven knoll]

yep think i was using revenge too often even without proccs but now i know better

[novel ruin]

@still pagoda No Avatar on pull? Is Avatar used as a defensive for raid rather than both offensive and defensive like M+?

[still pagoda]

@still pagoda No Avatar on pull? Is Avatar used as a defensive for raid rather than both offensive and defensive like M+?
@novel ruin

Nah, just 1 second before the pull

[left hatch]

might need it for 2nd ilgy beam

[still pagoda]

not to waste gcd

[left hatch]

oh gatcha

[still pagoda]

i fucked up with SB tho

[strong forum]

if you pre-cast avatar its not shown on logs casts

[still pagoda]

could use it right on charge

[strong forum]

only buff uptime

[novel ruin]

Ahh, kk

[left hatch]

tho tbh the every other gcd tclap shoulda given it away xD

i didn't think about that

[novel ruin]

What about CF?

On pull? Then taunt/charge?

I don’t tank so never really used CF as a major

I mean don’t tank raids lol

[left hatch]

i usually used it on pull, and then you gotta let the dot almost drop off before hitting it again

or you lose dps

[novel ruin]

Makes sense

[still pagoda]

I don’t tank so never really used CF as a major
@novel ruin

I use it 1-2 GCD's after wasting all rage gen spells

basically ramp up then start cycling CoF

[left hatch]

tbh delaying it a second will cost you 1 cast of it at most

so

not that big a risk

tho you couuuuld use it the split second before you charge-taunt-demo

it has some travel time

so it shouldn't prepull

idk if thats optimal or not

havn't looked at top parsing logs to really see how to minmax output

[still pagoda]

i was more concerned with looking at timings and constantly cycling CD's for beams

[left hatch]

yeh but not an awful habit to get into IF it is a better opener

and it costs nothing

since youre charge gcd is empty anyway

[still pagoda]

not really empty

if you precast avatar into charge and demo shout

you're going to get starved on gcd's really fast

[left hatch]

if you're casting ava at 1s

you have an open gcd as you hit charge and taunt

and by the time you reach the boss itll be open again to DS

[still pagoda]

hmm

will need to think about this on my first trial night with the new guild next Wednesday

[left hatch]

kinda awkward to hit 3 buttons tho, so just dropped taunt outta it

but my offtank also did shite for dps so never had a threat issue

[still pagoda]

kinda awkward to hit 3 buttons tho, so just dropped taunt outta it

Not for me since i have taunt on V and charge on R

[left hatch]

when i was raiding as prot*

[still pagoda]

and Demo on Q

[left hatch]

for me it was... G-Mouse 4 (if i taunted) - 4 - R

for charge - taunt - CoF - DS

[still pagoda]

1 > R+V > Q > 4 > 5 > 4/E/5/Mouse4

[strong forum]

are we talking CoF opener here?

pre-cast it

[still pagoda]

yuh

[strong forum]

why would you do it in combat?

when you can pre-cast the first one

[still pagoda]

[strong forum]

??

cof-ava-charge

[left hatch]

he was worried about rage on ilgy

to get it up before beamy

tbh you probably don't need BV

can just save DS for beams

[still pagoda]

to get demo right for second beam

so that it would do demo on first and SR+Demo on second

[left hatch]

and also frees up some gcd wiggle room with Devas being gone

[still pagoda]

instead of dropping SW right away

[muted spoke]

will our end build use 2 inefables + full vers? already got 2 inef but one of them is a crit/haste item, wonder if I shoud buy another inef to place in a haste/vers and dump the rest 25k echo on versatiles 3...

[strong forum]

only if you wanna push 25+

[still pagoda]

will our end build use 2 inefables + full vers? already got 2 inef but one of them is a crit/haste item, wonder if I shoud buy another inef to place in a haste/vers and dump the rest 25k echo on versatiles 3...
@muted spoke

What range of keys are you doing?

Nom just said it

[strong forum]

if you dont plan on pushing

then just go have fun with TD

[still pagoda]

my shit for +22-23 push

planning on using it in +24-25 if everything goes well

[left hatch]

yeh if you don't plan on pushing dw about EVERYTHING being haste/verse

just grab your highest ilvl

and look for pieces with haste with equivilant ilvl

that haste/crit item is dope unless you're already doing 23+'s

[muted spoke]

20-22

[still pagoda]

don't bother then

full TD is great in that range

or 2xIT1 and everything else into TD

[left hatch]

no reason to buy another IT then

[raven knoll]

is playing below 40 corruption still worth?

[left hatch]

haste/crit is a better piece already

if you arn't comfortable with TFB

perfectly safe to go above

hell Naowh was doing meme keys with 79 yesterday

just so he could get a fuckload of TD

[raven knoll]

hahaha

[upper violet]

Karton nice weapon omegalul

[left hatch]

(was in 22's and 23's tho so it was trivial content for him)

[still pagoda]

Karton nice weapon omegalul
@upper violet

RNGesus is not on my side lul

[upper violet]

F

[still pagoda]

maybe carapace weapon this wednesday

...

dunno

RNGesus saves

[upper violet]

I mean idk wrathion weapon even

[strong forum]

just get AD weapon with TD1 and socket from weekly cache...

smh

[still pagoda]

[upper violet]

Smh my head

[left hatch]

from a parsing in raid standpoint wrathion weapon < 465 fusion hacker

[raven knoll]

is going conflict main worth it with a setup like in kartons picture? im only having lik 2x versa AMPs or should i go for lucid at around 20s

[left hatch]

oh hes not even using fusion hacker

rip

[upper violet]

Conflict main for root

[still pagoda]

from a parsing in raid standpoint wrathion weapon < 465 fusion hacker
@left hatch

Last time i did parse as a tank for lulz was back in Antorus

[upper violet]

To deal with necro

[raven knoll]

so conflict main only this week right

[upper violet]

Hc parses are so ez with the 30 tank meme

[left hatch]

most situations you don't need the root to deal with necro

[still pagoda]

so conflict main only this week right
@raven knoll

You can go without it easily

it's a good quality of life major this week

[left hatch]

you have plenty of other tools to deal with it

[upper violet]

Yah

[still pagoda]

but you can surely do it with sphere minor, frost mage or assa rogue

[left hatch]

maybe like... Tol DAgor with bad dps so your mobility is limited and shit is alive way too long

but most other places you can Shockwave and yeet yourself away

[still pagoda]

CnS major can Tol Dagor you tho

just like TD

[left hatch]

everything can fuck you in Tol Dagor

[still pagoda]

but most other places you can Shockwave and yeet yourself away
@left hatch

I would say that WM can also be a good dung for that shit... But easily doable without it

[left hatch]

even just looking too intently at the wall can pull shit

yeh WM is another good example

[still pagoda]

CnS major is not a great major

[left hatch]

KR too to a degree at least the first room

[still pagoda]

it is just a QoL one

with added bonus vers

which is a minor defensive benefit

next week gonna be spicy

[upper violet]

What are the affixes

[still pagoda]

Sanguine and Quack

[upper violet]

Ez time

[left hatch]

freeee

[still pagoda]

dumb DPS, frost mage griefers and other shit

just like every other week

[left hatch]

step 1: have a druid friend

[upper violet]

Just ring of peace

[left hatch]

step 2: force him to typhoon

[upper violet]

Or typhoon

[still pagoda]

#protection on Hammer of Wrath turned into a gachi lounge

[left hatch]

good good

[upper violet]

Imagine being in paladin discord

Offtopic

I hate paladin tanks

[left hatch]

like.. the people that play them?

or them as a spec

[still pagoda]

i like prot pala gameplay

[upper violet]

Spec

Ive never played one

[left hatch]

yeh im not super keen on current pink prot either

[still pagoda]

SL will be my time of nostalgia with prot paladin for sure

[upper violet]

Just the ones i play with

[still pagoda]

my first toon back in MoP

[upper violet]

Are like paper

[still pagoda]

was a draenei pala

[left hatch]

having your survivability dictated by standing in a puddle is zzzz

[upper violet]

I play some healer abit

Pala tanks are so annoying

[left hatch]

tbh if you encounted pink prots that are paper, its likely they don't stand in consececrate enough

[upper violet]

Better than dks but still annoying

Hate healing dks

[left hatch]

my former cotank was a prot pally and kept forgetting

jaina was such a grind

cause hed get to like 10 stacks and topple over

and id be there MonkaS'ing at 50 on my monk

dk's must give you a heart attack

OH HES AT 1% ohe hes fine

OMG HES DYING oh hes ok

[upper violet]

Yeah

[left hatch]

literally every other global

[upper violet]

Real and true

[still pagoda]

OH HES AT 1% ohe hes fine

That's my experience with a terrible DK co-tank

an emotional rollercoaster

OH HES AT 1% ohe hes fine
OMG HES DYING oh hes ok [2]

[left hatch]

lol not even terrible dks

[upper violet]

Like u dont know when to heal them

[left hatch]

that just DK above like a 17/18

[upper violet]

1 sec the full 1 sec they 10%

Im like u want this cocoon

[still pagoda]

that just DK above like a 17/18
@left hatch

You just don't know how bad that DK in the guild i "left" last week is

[left hatch]

only way to predict that tbh is just play a fuckload of keys so you know 'oh this pack is omega spicy for tank damage'

and proactively throw shit out

[still pagoda]

Mentioned that to officers and got myself kicked

[upper violet]

Oof

[still pagoda]

and proactively throw shit out
@left hatch

DK's in SL: OH SHIT THAT'S SPICY ah it's fine i have a Rune Tap

@upper violet i am not a great or good player myself

but seeing someone casting 30 Death Caresses during shad'har fight is...

[upper violet]

I mean skill in wow is kinda weird to measure

[still pagoda]

[BIG AMOUNTS OF RUSSIAN SWEARING REDACTED]

[left hatch]

tbh wow skill is like

40% preparation 40% practice and 20% reaction time

[upper violet]

Yeah

[still pagoda]

aight

too much off-topic from me

[upper violet]

Eh

Its alright unless the mods say something

[left hatch]

its alright unless its preventing people from getting help

[still pagoda]

yeah

so. Back when i investigated the shit with my now former co-tank using void shard, i asked Panthea on DK discord

lots of crap revealed itself in no time

[left hatch]

Void on a tank 🤔

[upper violet]

OOF

[still pagoda]

also...

S T O N E S K I N G A R G O Y L E

[left hatch]

LULLLLL

imagine useing anything but unholy strenght

ever

[still pagoda]

imagine useing anything but unholy strenght

Fallen Crusader*

Unholy Strength is a buff it gives

[left hatch]

sorry yeh unholy str is hte buff it gives

oh thats your co-tank whos top damage is BB

yikers

yah thats basically the pally tank i had

[upper violet]

So they kicked u for pointing out someone thats underperforming or bad

[still pagoda]

who's whole damage was basically being lucky on TD procs

So they kicked u for pointing out someone thats underperforming or bad

Yes

[left hatch]

i was in a reallllly salty mood one night on a heroic reclear. didn't do anything but taunt

[upper violet]

Not the first time in a wow guild

[left hatch]

like literally nothing else

and did as much damage as him from AA's alone

[still pagoda]

politely asking officers to talk over with the dude

[left hatch]

on every single fight in Palace

so i feel the pain

[upper violet]

Ive joined a guild

[still pagoda]

since this would(and will for them now) end up in a disasterpiece on SL launch

[upper violet]

The gm is gay

His bf plays arcane mage

Boosted animal

Dies every pull

[still pagoda]

Playing arcane outside of Fetid Devourer and Mechatorkue

[upper violet]

No matter which moss

[still pagoda]

[left hatch]

thats the issue with like 90% of married couples/dating couples iv found in wow

one is good

[upper violet]

Which boss*

[left hatch]

one is trash

[still pagoda]

saying as a former mage main

[left hatch]

and god forbid you even broach the topic of helping their SO get better

that being said my current wow frands and M+ team are married and both are great

tho anytime we do a push key it feels like they're about to get a divorce (hes been tanking with her healing)

XD

[still pagoda]

it's always a gamble

[upper violet]

Yeah relationships in guilds especially in positions of power is just weird

[still pagoda]

sometimes you get great couples

sometimes 50/50

[left hatch]

easy to slip in a shitty mindset when you're a 'if they're out im out' even if you're just buds and not a couple

cause the first reaction isn't "how can i help them get better"

its "FUCK YOU ILL LEAVE"

[still pagoda]

cause the first reaction isn't "how can i help them get better"

That's my usual first reaction

how can i help him/her get better

back in that situation

i did ask officers to talk over with that DK guy

calmly and politely

with no drama and shit

was called drama igniter and kicked out instead

[upper violet]

Did they lob u instantly

[split portal]

Guys; scale & sigil of warding or sigil of warding & bandages?

[left hatch]

bandages is god awful

sigil is little better

[still pagoda]

Sigil is god awful too

[left hatch]

Scale + farming a better trinket

[still pagoda]

but it is better than bandages

[upper violet]

Ideally scale and vita

[still pagoda]

Scale + farming a better trinket
@left hatch

I would say Scale + Override subroutine mecha trinket

easiest option

[split portal]

No vita drops today ☹️

[still pagoda]

doesn't need any farming

[upper violet]

It is what it is

[still pagoda]

since you get it during mechagon questing

[left hatch]

yeh i think you can buy the haste card for it too

so can pick it up instantly

[still pagoda]

and then switch to rezan or vita

or to HM mecha card

[split portal]

I see good to know

[upper violet]

U guys think its normal for tanks to die on hm mythic

[split portal]

And how much vers do you guys rock?

[still pagoda]

U guys think its normal for tanks to die on hm mythic
@upper violet

no

[left hatch]

amps? 0

because i never went above 24 on myh prot

[still pagoda]

And how much vers do you guys rock?
@split portal

Zero in everything below +22-23

[split portal]

No %

[upper violet]

I could post logs

[left hatch]

was like... 7% last i checked

i don't look at %'s often cause they mean next to nothing

[upper violet]

Dk tank constantly dying

[still pagoda]

i'm doing 20% with 2 vers3's in everything above +21 since i pug that shit

basically baseline 10%DR

[upper violet]

Maybe ill pull a karton and start doing research

[still pagoda]

Maybe ill pull a karton and start doing research
@upper violet https://discord.gg/acherus

go bother panthea

[upper violet]

Maybe later

[left hatch]

unless you're doing very high keys Frostea, dw about how much of X stat you have

all 4 are good

and more stats > particular stats

[warm plinth]

But muh vers

[left hatch]

so go for Ilvl>Haste>crit>=vers

[warm plinth]

But muh haste

[still pagoda]

[undone sun]

[still pagoda]

i have to run this in +22's for the sake of consistency

because pugs are GARBAGE

[worthy relic]

whats best carapace weapon or wrathion weapon? both on mythic

[left hatch]

carapace

[warm plinth]

But muh @undone sun

[left hatch]

Ilvl>all

[worthy relic]

kk thx

[warm plinth]

[still pagoda]

But muh haste
@warm plinth

But muh crit and ineffables

[upper violet]

U know how on hm after echoing void theres the spike

[still pagoda]

[upper violet]

If u eat the spike its 100% heal reduction right

[still pagoda]

The ghost is haunting Skyhold... The ghost of I N E F F A B L E R A V A G E R

If u eat the spike its 100% heal reduction right
@upper violet

Yes. On mythic, if you eat any void spell on hivemind, you geat 100% healing reduction

[left hatch]

the frontal cone?

[still pagoda]

cone, puddles

[upper violet]

Ya so i think dk be eating that

[still pagoda]

stacking with someone

[upper violet]

And dying

[split portal]

Ah also, does anyone know of a website that lists bis builds?

[still pagoda]

no

and go full TD

[left hatch]

no such thing rn

[still pagoda]

MOAR TD

sorry

[left hatch]

your level of content is gonna dictate whats bis

[still pagoda]

4AM and my brain got roasted by pugs doing dogshit in +22ToS

[left hatch]

since most shit is situational

[split portal]

Thats what I thought/asked for builds

[warm plinth]

I’m running TD6 and IT1

Because alt

[left hatch]

so below 22ish Ilvl>Haste>Crit>=Versa

grab 2IT1's and ab unch of TD

Vita+Scale trinkets

[still pagoda]

wait

i see Nom playing Destiny 2

WTF

It's a good game tho

[left hatch]

22-25 you'll slowly start transitioning some of your gear to be haste/versa gear. swap gems and chants from haste to versa

[still pagoda]

^

[strong forum]

ya been playing for 24hrs in the past 2 days

[left hatch]

and roll Vita + LPS

[strong forum]

[still pagoda]

i don't swap my enchants and gems for vers @left hatch

[strong forum]

havent played since BFA release

[left hatch]

25+ 2 IT1's full versa amps and LPS + Alch stone

[still pagoda]

last time i played was during Season of the Drifter

ehh

worse than Black Armory on my list

[strong forum]

no idea

havent played since 2nd raid lair came out

[still pagoda]

basically

back then

they added second 4-shot burst pulse to the game

and they melt everything to this day

[strong forum]

:monkaHmm:

[still pagoda]

[left hatch]

i fall in and out of love with destiny

[still pagoda]

^

[left hatch]

last i played was when the moon opened

[still pagoda]

^

[left hatch]

then i got bored

[still pagoda]

same

cleared new raid, got bored quick, AT LAST did Luna's Howl quest(post-nerf already )

then abandoned the game

[left hatch]

i think the last thing i did

was the 'hidden' quest to get and upgrade the spooky lookin sniper rifle

[still pagoda]

Whisper?

kek

that was a good shit

[left hatch]

the one that looks all .... i forget the faction thats jsut a corrupted repaint of the existing ones

[still pagoda]

back when it restored ammo instead of drawing from reserves

[left hatch]

yeh Whisper sounds right

[mint needle]

Quick question on 3rd boss in ML. Do I have to SR before she casts chemical burn or can I cast it once it is applied to offset some of the damage? Having trouble timing it. Thanks in advance.

[left hatch]

you cast it before

[still pagoda]

cast before

2-3 second on timer

you use it

[left hatch]

transition from DBM - > Little wigs and you get dungeon timers for everything

[mint needle]

Thank you

[still pagoda]

and run into the boss

[left hatch]

much better

[still pagoda]

transition from DBM - > Little wigs and you get dungeon timers for everything
@left hatch

I did so back in late Legion

when DBM was laggy as fuck

[left hatch]

i did this xpac. with the catalyst literally being rixxa lmfao

[still pagoda]

[left hatch]

got tired of DBM's dungeon clalous being shit

callouts*

[dark crow]

So question for some experienced players. I started playing as a fury and its literally my only toon I have ever played. I am interested in learning tank but don't know what is the best way to go about it. Should I start a new character and have two warriors and learn from the ground up? Changing my spec seems overwhelming

[left hatch]

personally i like learning from the ground up

but thats a big time investment

start with the icy veins guide in #268491842637660160 and if it seems too overwhelming

yeh relevel ig

[still pagoda]

^

[strong forum]

or go step by step in world quests

[still pagoda]

and just hop onto there

any questions

we can answer

:D

yeh relevel ig
@left hatch @dark crow

Also really good thing is starting from prot paladin

[left hatch]

like i did the opposite and literally couldn't wrap my head around arms or fury, till i as lvling one as horde

[still pagoda]

actually a beginner-friendly tank

[left hatch]

always felt like i was fucking something up till i got to see the pieces come together 1 by one

in the kit

[still pagoda]

in Shadowlands it will also be the ultimate speed-boi among tanks

with HoPo returning

[strong forum]

bruh thats kinda

[still pagoda]

My nostalgia over MoP paladin starts killing me

bruh thats kinda
@strong forum

I dunno how people can wipe in D2 raids

especially in few last ones

the only raid that actually gave at least some kind of difficulty was Last Wish

[strong forum]

ya but only 5.7% having done the first raid on prestige

[light relic]

What's the toy called that makes you smaller?

[left hatch]

Burgy Blackheart's Handsome Hat

[light relic]

Does any toy that make you smaller work?

like gurboglge's gleaming bauble

[left hatch]

a lot stop working the second you enter combat/get hit

so the only one ik of for sure

is the gnome pirate one

[light relic]

alright thanks

[dark crow]

how do I reveal my ig name

[still pagoda]

Armory on official site

You can drop it right here

[raven knoll]

whats your guys opener on m+ aoe? avatar - charge - SB - clap - ds - clap? am i missing something?

[primal dune]

Can DS before Clap is group's not retarded and starts dpsing immediately

But generally yes that's the rotation

[still pagoda]

I always go ava>charge+SB>clap>Demo

Since it is kind of my preference for DPS to be able to go apeshit whenever they want

[primal dune]

They'll go apeshit alright

[still pagoda]

Better off doing it "safer" than looking at someone COMBOOOOOOSTING their way into the coffin

[primal dune]

Ever seen a TD DH on skittish fortified?

[still pagoda]

I have seen mage ripping off agro through taunt on skittish tyr

On second boss in FH

And then blaming me

Despite his own coomer mentality

[primal dune]

Obviously if you stacked expedient, your TD would proc 5 more times, holding your aggro

[still pagoda]

[dark crow]

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/ghostlands/spuutnik

[raven knoll]

talking about threat how are you guys pulling for example 2 mob grps that are apart together? like charge 2x or leap the second grp or throw weapon? is there a „best“ way to get them together fast and have aggro asap?

[still pagoda]

That's not how hasted procs work 😁 @primal dune

[primal dune]

Heroic throw and LoS

And pray dps don't go ape shit

[still pagoda]

@raven knoll charge into first then just throws into other packs

[novel ruin]

@raven knoll depends on the pack, etc

Communicate your plans

[primal dune]

That's when you'll see hunters immediately throw their pets in, holding pack in place for many secones

[novel ruin]

Tell your people you are pulling 2 packs and to wait until grouped

[still pagoda]

^

[novel ruin]

Number 1 thing all tanks can work on is being more communicative

[still pagoda]

Pugs will go apeshit anyway

😩

[novel ruin]

Whether that’s through voice or chat

[primal dune]

@glad thorn isn't hasted proc based on (1 + haste) real procs per min

[raven knoll]

for example on freehold the first 3 pack they are kinda close but yet i cant get them together asap with not losing threat for a bit on 1-2 mobs

[novel ruin]

Don’t move

After you put in key

[still pagoda]

@glad thorn isn't hasted proc based on (1 + haste) real procs per min
@primal dune

RPPM*(1+Haste%/100)

[novel ruin]

Once someone starts moving, the enforcer pack comes down stairs

So if no one moves the enforcer pack will be at bottom of stairs when you get there

[raven knoll]

didnt know that one thx

[primal dune]

I thought it's suppose to be RPPM = base proc * (1 + haste)

[icy harness]

No

[novel ruin]

I don’t know any of the math of the game

[icy harness]

Each corruption proc has its RPPM

[left hatch]

TD is also a weird version of RPPM

[icy harness]

And they are hated

Hasted

TD has a rppm of 1

But it's hasted

[left hatch]

it doesn't work the same way as like trinket RPPM or basically any other proc in the game

[icy harness]

So if you have 40% haste

It's 1.4 rppm

[left hatch]

its completely random

[icy harness]

Wat

[left hatch]

the proccing for IS and TD

does not function the same way

as trinkets/class procs etc

[still pagoda]

As your typical hasted proc

[icy harness]

Yep

[novel ruin]

Aren’t they hasted rppm though?

[still pagoda]

What i wrote is for typical hasted procs

[distant crystal]

in what way?

are TD and IS different from other hrppm

[icy harness]

[still pagoda]

Where haste adds as a part of coefficient in multiplication

[left hatch]

trinkets and other hrppm have a form of bad (and good) luck protection built in so that over a long enough timeline you'll average out to what it should be

IS and TD do not have that

[distant crystal]

that's what rppm is

so you're saying IS and TD aren't rppm?

[icy harness]

Any source to back that up?

[left hatch]

I have people here that have explained it to me much better than i have

i believe nom was the one that told me about it first

[primal dune]

RPPM is about the expected value of procs per min, the expected value would be practically the same for both cases

[left hatch]

but yah, thats why the variance of IS and TD is so drastic in any given situation

[icy harness]

There's no "safe rng" regarding trinkets/corruption procs

As far as I know

[left hatch]

while you can consistently rely on most other procs

[icy harness]

If be glad to be proven otherwise

Then it wouldn't be rng

For example dice trinket procs just as little as TD does

Because it's rppm is 1

And I see double dice procs and double td procs all the time

Or none

For 5 minutes

[left hatch]

RPPM has a trigger that calculates in the last time it has procced in most cases

so it weeds out your trinket proccing multiple times in quick succession

TD/IS do not have that outside a 1s icd

[icy harness]

TD says 4s icd if I'm not wrong

[left hatch]

or 4s

but yeh

TD and IS lack that 'last_successful_proc_ timer that goes along with most other things

[primal dune]

How does it work then

And how does it affect RPPM

[left hatch]

otherwise it works the same? its calculated using the OTHER critical timer for RPPM of last_trigger

[grim agate]

Guys, is stacking expedient a good idea?? Im 473 doing 15s

[primal dune]

So you're telling me the procs of TD are Poisson distributed with mean = HRPPM

No

[left hatch]

no im saying that because of how its calculated, usually classes that generate more instances for it to successfully trigger

are evened out by a %less chance per trigger event

[icy harness]

but dh get more procs overall?

since haste

[left hatch]

because its considering when the lass successful proc occurered

and yeh DH's not only have vastly more trigger events

[icy harness]

@strong forum

[left hatch]

but the %trigger isn't reduced

which is why theres the meme of "DH's are being carried by IS"

[primal dune]

So you're telling me TD is chance-to-proc on hit, while RPPM trinkets are based on RPPM

[left hatch]

RPPM trinkets also are based onthat theres just an additional timer its calculating

[primal dune]

i.e. TD related to the number of buttons you physically press in a given timeframe, as opposed to RPPM

[left hatch]

RPPM is just a measurement tooltips use to describe one of the events happening

[icy harness]

No wth

rppm is based on how many presses you have anyway

or well

the hasted one

[primal dune]

" With the RPPM system, it doesn’t matter how many spells you use or swings you take (like it does on chance-to-proc on hit trinkets)."

[icy harness]

Yeah, I don't understand it either

trust me

[primal dune]

AMR article explaining RPPM

[left hatch]

exactly lol

because of that second timer. you will still get your 1PPM or w/e it is based on your haste value

thats why RPPM is not an accurate way to fully describe how haste and IS work

[primal dune]

My understanding of RPPM somehow decreased after this 10 min discussion

[left hatch]

i mean

seconds = MIN( ( current_time - last_trigger ), 3.5 );
real_ppm = PPM * coeff;
old_rppm_chance = real_ppm * ( seconds / 60.0 ); are the 3 formulas that are calculated before any potential proc chance

[icy harness]

where did you find this

[left hatch]

reddit explanation of RPPM

[primal dune]

What's the coefficient

And what's their source

[icy harness]

^

[left hatch]

the coefficient is w/e value you're benefiting from haste

[icy harness]

So basically the assumption is that trinkets have a built in timer for last trigger

that won't let them stack

[left hatch]

yes

[icy harness]

But then again from experience, I've had 2 dice procs at the same time

and the rppm is 1

[tender phoenix]

is it usefull having 2% crit (got no other stat corruptions)

[icy harness]

Same as TD after the 4s icd

2-3 in a row

[left hatch]

dice also procs different stats so it may function differently as a trinket

[icy harness]

@tender phoenix useful? yes. best? nope

[left hatch]

but yah thats my understanding of how IS and TD is fucked

[tender phoenix]

its more or less pity corruption or place holder

[icy harness]

But there is absolutely nothing to confirm this

[primal dune]

That first one should be a max function

Min doesn't make sense

[icy harness]

place holder

[left hatch]

based on what ppl far more knowledgable about how wow functions explained it to me

[icy harness]

yeah the formula makes no sense imo but still

I see the assumption that they proc differently based on nothing, and when given that another trinket procs the same way comes to the conclusion that that trinket is also at fault

why are we still here

just to suffer

[primal dune]

the rppm_chance formula also implies there's a luck protection

Since probability can't exceed 1

[icy harness]

that's the whole problem

it can exceed 1

[left hatch]

didn't come to a conclusion about the trinket? offered a plausible explanation to anecdotal story

[icy harness]

as I have seen it exceed 1

[primal dune]

Although it would be statistically impossible to actually hit the value of 1

[icy harness]

not anecdotal really, it's known that dice can proc more than once at the same time

and the buffs stack

[left hatch]

and it also procs different buffs

so it works differently than say a Scale

[primal dune]

We have that RPPM*(seconds/60) <= 1

[left hatch]

which would only overwrite the proc

[primal dune]

RPPM <= 60/Seconds

Say RPPM is 1 in most of the cases

[icy harness]

yes it would overwrite the proc

[primal dune]

We have 1 <= 60/Seconds

And since seconds go from 3.5 to infinity

The formula is meaningless

[icy harness]

about right

thank you mike, very cool

[left hatch]

seconds is a comparison between the time in seconds since the last event and a fixed number of 3.5. The smaller value is assigned. For example if the time since the last event is four seconds then 3.5 is used and if its two seconds 2 is used.

[primal dune]

Wait no I'm retarded it's not meaningless

Formula holds for Seconds <= 60

Which means 60s is the luck protection

With a RPPM of 1, the time between procs of a trinket physically cannot exceed 60s

[left hatch]

mate, i have no idea how to understand this formula. im literally just trying to half-assedly explain to you whats been told me from multiple people

that are way smarter than i am

[icy harness]

@primal dune i'm gonna test it out

[primal dune]

It should be fairly easy to test out, since it's statistically insignificant to even get close to 1 min

Don't forget to factor in your haste

[icy harness]

yeah that's what I was going to ask you

what's the number of seconds that I should be guaranteed a proc

running a certain % of haste

on a 1 RPPM trinket

[primal dune]

Take off your haste prco trinks

And into the fray

So it's consistent

And tell me your % value

Of Haste

[icy harness]

i'm on my bear

1 sec

23%

[primal dune]

So we have 1.23 <= 60/sec assuming the base proc is 1 PPM

[undone sun]

If a proc is hasted, when it states 1 rppm * haste, 1 is when you're at 0 haste

[primal dune]

Sec <= 60/1.23

[icy harness]

yeah I know that, i'm just looking for the number of seconds

[primal dune]

49 seconds

[icy harness]

so

48, 49

timers on

[primal dune]

That's the theoretical celling for proc time

[icy harness]

1:07

no dice proc

take that atheists

there's no luck shield

it's all a myth

[left hatch]

ah in reading more, the old+rppm_chance formula is used when a trinket doesn't already have BLP on it

[icy harness]

I know for a fact I haven't had a proc way more than a minute before, and also have had it proc more than once, or two times in a minute

[left hatch]

or at least not one that SimC recognizes

[fierce bobcat]

i found some old posts about a toy - the Golden Banana used to be able to ranged interrupt - i don't have it but will go do the achieve if it still works. Anyone have this?

[left hatch]

and thats the formula simc uses to calculate your procs on the trinket

only use of Banana ik of is to stop mage district boss from TPing

[still pagoda]

@icy harness anima

🥴

[icy harness]

Mike, this time next year, we will be milionaires

[primal dune]

The old rppm chance formula IMPLIES the existence of bad luck protection

[fierce bobcat]

ooh so when he's about to teleport you throw the banana at him?

[left hatch]

i mean according to simc some trinkets have BLP

[primal dune]

Since you physically cannot exceed the limit

For example, with Vynnir's haste, at 49s, the chance of proc is 1, i.e. guaranteed

[icy harness]

which didnt happen 🤔

so no protection

debunked

[left hatch]

yes thats ig the base badluck protestion simc uses IF. it doesn't have a manual value set

[primal dune]

Which means the formula is wrong

[left hatch]

which could be greater or less than oldrmmp chance

its a default value

[icy harness]

things that do have protection would be PPM instead having a base value of procs per minute, no?

since you can't have less that the protected amount

protected PPM

PPPM

instead of RPPM

[left hatch]

i mean PPM and RPPM are interchangable iv been told

[icy harness]

within a formula yes

[primal dune]

RPPM is Poisson distributed with mean = hasted proc, change my mind

[left hatch]

no idea what it means but hok

[icy harness]

I haven't attended my math lectures recently

but i've done probability

[primal dune]

Poisson distribution is a generalised case of binomial distribution, with n approaching infinity

So say for every second that passes, the dice has 2% chance of proccing

That's a binomial

In a min, we have 60s, in each one of those seconds, the dice has a 2% chance

[icy harness]

It's basically the Poisson distribution

with added icd

[primal dune]

So we have p=0.02 and n = 60

[icy harness]

each proc doesn't affect the others

outside of the individual, unique icd

[primal dune]

Since there's no apparent upper limit, I'd say so

[sharp night]

RPPM does not guarantee a proc

it averages out to the expected RPPM over infinite time

[primal dune]

According to the formula Morrison provided, it had a theoretical max

[sharp night]

yes but the expected max is much higher than you would think

[primal dune]

Since the experiment provided by Vynnir immdiately dismissed that, we know formula is false

[sharp night]

like 1RPPM isn't guaranteed 1 proc a minute

[icy harness]

Yeah

[left hatch]

its a formula i found that describes how SimC calculates trinkets that don't have a BLM value set

[icy harness]

but that's for minimum @primal dune

not maximum

[left hatch]

allegedly

[sharp night]

the expected max time on a 1rppm is like 5 minutes

[icy harness]

I bet I could go more than 5 without a proc

with a 1 rppm trinket

[primal dune]

That's why I said a Poisson distribution may be accurate

With no theoretical max

[icy harness]

The issue is that there is no "protection" on the guaranteed minimum

but we dont know if it has a maximum

[sharp night]

the formula was given by blizzard so

[icy harness]

I love this cat

[primal dune]

Blizzard can suck my dick because they broke the laws or probability

[left hatch]

vince

iv heard that TD and IS function diff from other RPPM things

due to some randomness or lack of "good luck protetcion"

you know anything about it or nay

cause im in the minority and don't know anything about formulas lol

[primal dune]

Locked in player choice, I sleep

Mistakes in probability calculations, real shit?

[sharp night]

nah all traits/trinkets/corruptions that use hasted rppm work the same way

[left hatch]

hmm ok

then ppl i heard it from were wrong

[sharp night]

havoc's gain in IS/TD procs is strictly because of haste from FG

[primal dune]

We spent 40 min figuring out we know fucking nothing about RPPM

Literally

[left hatch]

nah i knew i know fucking nothing

im not smart lmfao

[sharp night]

the ICD is only in pvp for TD btw

in pve there is no ICD

[icy harness]

don't worry I know nothing either

[sharp night]

you can legit get chain procs

[icy harness]

i'm just a Morty to Mike's Rick

[left hatch]

im a Psych grad, nothing hard sciency

so

this is all been above my head

butits been a nice learning experience

[primal dune]

I'm actuary undergrad, I'm into this modelling shit

My degree is 1/4 econ, 1/4 finance and 2/4 statistical modelling

[left hatch]

i can't do numbers beyond like... more simplistic sociological data and interpretting really really really basically distrubtions and probability

[primal dune]

0/4 real world applicability

[left hatch]

but yeh everything iv said is hearsay admittedly from good players

[primal dune]

Poisson is literally a basic distribution

[left hatch]

that i took as fact

[icy harness]

Makes me feel bad considering i'm full on math/physics in engineering

[left hatch]

and then a redit copy pasta from someone that allegedly works with SimC backend?

[sharp night]

like i can't remember which discord i saw it in recently but there were logs of people proccing td 4 times in 8 seconds after the ICD was supposedly implemented

[left hatch]

thats where i got the formulas i posted

[sharp night]

yeah the simc formula is lifted straight from a blizz bluepost

back when they posted how the formula worked

[left hatch]

hey at least that was somethign i did right

but yeh my bad on spreading misinformation

[primal dune]

It doesn't really matter if the backend isn't accurate, since that affects the standard deviation and not the mean, which no one gives a shit about

As long as the RPPM is correct across all the models being used, the mean would be correct according to law of very large number, and the nature of sims

[icy harness]

also the 4s icd is what i've pulled from askmrrobot @sharp night i'm pretty confident I have had 3 procs in a span of 6-8 seconds before

[left hatch]

don't use Askmrrobot

[icy harness]

i don't use it, but it's a good source of info

on rppm and alike

without being in wow to check it myself

[primal dune]

It's a really good source on each individual procs

[left hatch]

ah ok thought you meant on like sims in stuff

them thinking you can sim defensive value omegalul

and to my understanding they kinda homebrew their own APL

and don't outsource to theory crafters like Mwahi to give more up to date/accurate oens

[primal dune]

For example
Type
Spell Hit
Cooldown (sec)
= 4
Real PPM
= 1 * (1 + TotalHaste)

SimC actually does sim defensive value

The script isn't updated for a while

But the infrastructure is there

[left hatch]

not in a way that'd ever be accurate

and why raidbots doens't offer that option

[primal dune]

If you add in the accurate boss swing timer and damage mods, you can actually accurately sim for defensive value

Raidbots doesn't do that because they're not paid to

[left hatch]

you would only be able to accurately sim on a case by case basis

[icy harness]

considering no passive damage

and no mechanics

[sharp night]

we know boss swing timers, but that isn't the only factor

[icy harness]

and perfect play

[left hatch]

otherwise theres way too many variables

[icy harness]

• you dont get hit constantly

🤔

[left hatch]

damage intake and profiles fluctuate WILDLY

[primal dune]

Not in a controlled environment

[main vault]

swing timers isnt even it

[primal dune]

Use the wrathion fight as an example

[main vault]

swing timers, boss abilities, fight timers, healer comps, dps comps, it all matter

[primal dune]

You take 2 breaths, melees between the breaths, and aoe everywhere

[left hatch]

yeh in a controlled envioronment. but that sim would only be accurate for wrathion. it would be meaningless for say Hivemind

[primal dune]

healer comps doesn't matter, it sims for defensive capability, not healers

[main vault]

bullshit

[grand drum]

You guys dont realize it but this guy is living in 3020.

[main vault]

Healer CD's are part of survival

[primal dune]

It sims YOUR defensiveness

Not your defensiveness based on healer choices

[main vault]

Healer CDs are YOURS

[left hatch]

yeh it would just assume 0 externals

which, not true to life but still

[primal dune]

You can also manually add healers in

[left hatch]

the amount of work would only be accurate for 1 fight

[primal dune]

That model would be unnecessarily complicated

[left hatch]

so you can

but it would be an ungodly amount of time to do it for every scenario

[primal dune]

You can literally sim a full 20 man Wrathion raid if you put enough effort into it

[main vault]

If you want it to be accurate is has to be unnecessarily complicated

Which is the point

[primal dune]

The amount of effort which can be used to just over-gear and run wrathion down like a bitch

[left hatch]

yeh i agree but the point is its way to much work and youd have to do it on a case by case basis

while dps sims are marginally more accurate

[primal dune]

Point is it's possible

[main vault]

Just go use AMR if you think it is so easy

[left hatch]

yah thats my issue with AMR is they offer it as an option

to ppl that use it

[icy harness]

@sharp night some info to come in

I've let moonfire tick

19 times

for 16 seconds

with is 304 seconds

5 minutes per se

and no dice procs

[primal dune]

Dice may not proc on dummies

[left hatch]

do dot ticks count as an ablity use to proc tho

[primal dune]

IS doesn't proc on dummies

[icy harness]

does dice proc on dummies?

[primal dune]

And that

[icy harness]

that's the question

i don't know the answer

[primal dune]

After this long of a test, I'd guess no

[main vault]

It only procs off initial cast

[primal dune]

Well time to throw our entire conclusion out the window

[icy harness]

but

[left hatch]

yeh usually ability usage implies pressing ab utton

[icy harness]

TD procced

off of the dot

[main vault]

yes

[icy harness]

not the cast

[left hatch]

yeh TD can proc off AA's too

[icy harness]

yet not dice?

[left hatch]

which is monkaS on bolstering

[main vault]

Because 1 thing doesnt mean all things do

[icy harness]

Source for this?

[left hatch]

of it proccing on AA's

[primal dune]

I know for a fact IS doesn't proc cuz I hit the shit for 7 min without prcos

[left hatch]

its literally happend to me

many times

[icy harness]

same for me