on pull #10
#protection
still pagoda
sweet summit
PogU
sweet summit
Clean
chilly brook
@still pagoda tbh I think I'll start working on the paladin cuz I'd rather play a pally than a DK or a BrM
still pagoda
I started lvling pala yesterday
Just to get it away a bit earlier
And also get blood elf heritage armor
chilly brook
Oh you mean this?
cosmic canyon
is there any weakaura or addon that shows 'average' of each secondarystat during a key?
warm plinth
There's a WA that shows your current stats and updates but not sure about average.
live updates*
cosmic canyon
there is a handful of those minimum Ghash, i'm only interested in the latter.
warm plinth
Not sure what you would do with that information tbh
cosmic canyon
The avg?
warm plinth
Yeah
cosmic canyon
😮
still pagoda
Dynamic stats update is understandable
warm plinth
Oh, gotcha
cosmic canyon
yeah but you'd "even need" one if you want to have another tool to assess optimal gearing/corruptions etc
still pagoda
Meh, just slap on what gives the most amount of stat vs uptime
warm plinth
Yeah but average stats don't help you
cosmic canyon
right now you're left 'feely crafting' uptime on OP & BoM
warm plinth
Because the damage you take is not averaged out
still pagoda
^
cosmic canyon
sure it isnt
cosmic canyon
Like i said, 'another tool'
still pagoda
Keening, you're overthinking it
warm plinth
Like if I have a vers proc during Rezan's pursuit, it's useless despite the fact that it made my average vers go up.
It's not useful information is basically what we're saying
You can't make choices based on it that will actually make a difference
cosmic canyon
"we are saying" always a pleasure.. kek
warm plinth
?
still pagoda
?
cosmic canyon
Forget that i asked about the weak aura, thanks for replying.
warm plinth
Well I did answer your question, that I don't think it exists. I'm not even sure you could really make one without a lot of work (though I'm not familiar with the language that WAs use so maybe it's easy and I'm just dumb)
still pagoda
WA uses lua iirc
warm plinth
I'm sure it's probably possible because like I have a WA that gives me average run time of islands this session
still pagoda
It is possible... But will probably lag a lot
Since you need to account for every update to stats from procs
And there're thousands of such instances throughout the typical M+ run
warm plinth
Yeah that's true as well. Unfortunate
sharp night
you could do a "cheap" approximation by just adding the stats to a sum
every second
and dividing by time since start
still pagoda
Each additional instance will lead to exponential increase due to amount of processed data @warm plinth
sharp night
but that won't be that accurate anyway
sharp night
it's a relatively cheap operation
still pagoda
Yeah, but there're many of those... Hmm, it really seems good as median arythmetical value can be calculated in certain order and with a reasonable delay(5 seconds between each for example)
grave lily
vita + fang or scale for easy 15s?
distant crystal
scale
but what is fang
lol
oh merekthas
you can meme with it if you got a good ilvl one i suppose
jade laurel
Hey guys I recently started playing Prot and I'm having an absolute blast in M+. I've heard that Prot is getting heavily nerfed in Shadowlands? In what way?
summer edge
Which essences should i use for lower m+ faming
steep bone
vop major, cns, warden, lucid
left oasis
I'm using afenar's weakura but I have an issue that I don't see with seeing wheter my shiled block and ignore pain is up or not. Any advice?
strange tide
Get a separate IP and SB tracker maybe?
warm plinth
The two bars on the bottom of the WAs are for Shield Block/IP
left oasis
yeah I'd go for another tracker for those but I was wondering if I am missing something
@warm plinth those show only the cooldown, not buff status
warm plinth
No the bars show duration and amount. The icon shows CD.
left oasis
oh
warm plinth
That being said they're insanely tiny (especially the shield block one) for something that important.
I made the shield block bar bigger and moved it to the top
left oasis
that's cool. ty
warm plinth
IP idgaf about since you just dump rage with it anyway
fierce phoenix
Anybody doing 5 masks as prot?
warm plinth
✋
warm plinth
I'm good man. How you been
left sedge
how do i sim a piece of gear to see what azerite traits i should pick for it?
i just got the shoulders off carapace normal but idk whether to make it for prot or fury
also is there a way to sim something i dont own yet vs something i do to see which is better?
novel ruin
@left sedge You can’t sim defensively. Only for DPS. Go to raidbots, Download SimC addon. Import your SimC info to Top Gear in Raidbots, choose your options/gear/etc, profit.
left sedge
oh it doesnt work for tank?
undone sun
only for offensive purposes
left sedge
im currently using a 440 sheild, and i got a 460 maddening bulwark, the boe one with a 915 mast/10 sec corrupt wanted to compare that with the sheild from ilgy
undone sun
always take ilevel on shield
novel ruin
Always use highest ilvl for wep and shield
left sedge
i jsut havent put it on because my capes still lvl 1 so id be sitting at 40 some corrupt
i dunno if thats safe as prot
novel ruin
If still learning Prot, I would stay below 40
steep bone
Oh im sorry i mean 4th
novel ruin
Spell reflect every other one
novel ruin
You could SR every single one but need to do some charge shenanigans
warm plinth
Or if you get really lucky and have IT1x2 (or you time a leap well), you can reflect every one.
novel ruin
But yeah, Shield Wall 2nd one, Use Demo on the ones you can not reflect
And in higher Tyran keys it may be a better lust than last boss
warm plinth
Gotcha
rocky linden
I'm currently running TD3 + 2 x IT1, what's the next play for M+? More TD or Vers?
rocky linden
18-20 I'd say
novel ruin
Then more TD or Expedient
Don’t worry about Going any vers until 22 and full vers until 24ish
rocky linden
Okay cool, thanks
Don't think I'll be doing that high as a tank, I'm sticking with hunter for high keys
novel ruin
I’m pushing 23/24s and I’m currently TD3, 2x R1 IT and A little vers (sitting around 32% unbuffed). Works fine for me until I go for full vers next push week.
novel ruin
Deaths?
obtuse yoke
7
novel ruin
Was that a wipe?
novel ruin
Key level and route?
warm plinth
We missed timing our first 22 by 8 seconds last night 🙃
obtuse yoke
i did the standard jy route
novel ruin
Out of any dungeon, JY can be done the most unstandard way
obtuse yoke
yeah i get that it's rng
novel ruin
It’s not
rocky linden
@novel ruin what trinkets are you running for those keys?
obtuse yoke
every pug i do does this so seems standard to me
novel ruin
Yeah, that is pretty standard
obtuse yoke
which is why i said standard route 😛
novel ruin
I do spider with last boss
obtuse yoke
i usually like to do ob with boss but
novel ruin
@rocky linden I use Mythic socketed Vita ans Scale. Will transition to Mythic Nzoth trinket when it drops for me, replacing the Scale. Eventually if I push high enoug will replace Vita with Alch Stone
obtuse yoke
we had so much time and needed %
novel ruin
Terming only adds like 2 packs to the dungeon
Extra renormalizer pack next to ob most groups take to last boss and the 4 pack of Troggs next to double Haste buffs
rocky linden
Thanks again
novel ruin
@rocky linden but those 4 are what you aim for with the 5th being Rezans
rocky linden
Cool, I don't have any of those :p
Although alch trinket would be easy enough to fix
novel ruin
Haste FTW in lower keys
Arguably Alch stone is only valuable if you have vers corruptions
Otherwise vita/scale better
rocky linden
Using Vial of animated blood and humming for now since they're literally the only trinkets I have
novel ruin
Humming is Scale
novel ruin
Replace Vial with Rezans or Vita. Can grind out the Rezans
rocky linden
Didnt remember raiding on warrior... 😮
grave lily
heroic nzoth isn't worth it compared to mythic scale/vita?
rocky linden
What about Fang?
novel ruin
I’m pushing 23/24s and there are a few times it would have been useful but it isn’t needed
Fang is big damage, that’s it
rocky linden
I like big damage tho
novel ruin
Then run it. Just realize that Haste gives you more offensive and defensive power with a little less damage
I don’t play my character to sell 15s
rocky linden
Fair enough. And I guess offensive trinkets have lost a bit of its value with TD doing so much
novel ruin
I play them to one day push/clear content at the highest level
Yes and no
TD falls off after 10 targets
Fang gets better
grave lily
lately i've just been playing to gear other peoples mages it feels
distant crystal
a noble cause tbh
novel ruin
@grave lily I’ve got double hunter in my group xD
grave lily
the dream, mages aren't people
novel ruin
Neither are BMs though
rocky linden
Do you guys plan SR for special spells, or just pretty much use it on cooldown?
novel ruin
Both
grave lily
SR to gurantee someone else kicks
novel ruin
lol true
rocky linden
Nobody kicks in my groups so thats fine
novel ruin
For instance Last boss of Atal, SR the damage for the DR even though you won’t do any reflect damage
Or Vent Jets in Workshop
That can destroy a tank
In high enough keys on a SR mob/boss you can end up as highest damage
In the 27/28 Shrine that Naowh's team was doing a few weeks back, they would bait the Blast from first boss onto Naowh so he could SR it. Was doing 1-1.3 million damage each time on a 90mil HP boss
rocky linden
Good to know
mental anchor
Holy hell how do bait that
novel ruin
yup, the 3 smaller ones do that as well on random targets if no one is in their melee range too
thorn anvil
360 strength vs 198 haste?
warm plinth
What are we comparing, specifically
warm plinth
Yeah but are we comparing like one trinket to another or what's the deal?
thorn anvil
nah, just noticed while fishing something
lemme get the item
this increases your haste by 3%
while a standard flask is about a ~3% strength increase
warm plinth
Ah. Strength is better
steep bone
How are SoB bosses? I got 21 and dunno what to expect
thorn anvil
lol
steep bone
last boss tyran
is memes
might actually go for 'weekly no leavers'
any huge damage on other bosses tho? On 17 they all were tickling tbh
sour silo
3rd only kinda smacks but its fine
And u can reduce dmg from the puddles that go on ur party by SR
steep bone
oh?
sour silo
Well its magic dmg
steep bone
but how do you reduce it tho
sour silo
Use spell reflect before it explodes
steep bone
ohh
sour silo
Its not life saver but it helps xd
steep bone
but is it actually gonna reduce aoe on whole party or just dmg on me
steep bone
oooh
thats actually nice
well whatever can help is good tho
but is it worth reducing that dmg instead of reflecting thing from beyond?
novel ruin
Justg stun thing
steep bone
actually truu
blissful falcon
hey guys, hi, I have a question, maybe a stupid question, why is Intervene used in motherload, 3th boss, there is an essence, talent or something else that I don't know? or does it just make me intargettable from the spell and the shot doesn't hurt you?
warm plinth
Intercept isn't used in ML 3rd boss. You don't want to take any more damage than you already are.
blissful falcon
in all the videos of that boss I see that they use intervene
novel ruin
You wouldnt use safeguard
sour silo
If u play CaS major , thing from beyond is your lil friend because more vers
novel ruin
you may charge out to allow someone else to get the dot
steep bone
maybe he was just charging away so someone else gets dot
warm plinth
Yeah that's honestly all I can think they're doing it for
steep bone
it melts kinda
novel ruin
cuz dot goes on 2 closest targets
warm plinth
But you can typically do that by just moving out a bit anyway
novel ruin
^
cuz if you safeguarded someone with dot, thats rough. Warriors already get trucked on that fight
nova vector
Ok here’s my issue. Recently went prot for my m+ group. Bought a ton of vers amp because I thought that was pog. However my group is just now getting into +20 keys and I’m reading here that expedient is the way to go at my level
steep bone
You mean twilight devastation and 2x IT
nova vector
I don’t really mythic raid so don’t have a ton of 475s lying around and all my 475s now have vers amp. Do I just suck it up or worth it to swap out for expedient?
sour silo
Vers is life
steep bone
you go vers amps for like 23-25+keys
warm plinth
Expedient stacking is never a thing. At best it's used as a filler when you can't fit another TD
blissful falcon
.
maybe he was just charging away so someone else gets dot
@steep bone
in every high keys i see them
doing
nova vector
I’m currently running TD 2 + IT 1 and the rest vers amp
warm plinth
But typically you do TD stacking with 2 IT1 until you're in the mid-20s or so
steep bone
you can run hybrid TD&Vers amps on like 22 keys if you want extra tankiness
novel ruin
Expedient is more of a filler
steep bone
but for vers amps you actually need vers gear
nova vector
I can run TD 5 but lose a IT 1 in order to do so. Yay or nay?
novel ruin
I wouldn’t
steep bone
i'd say nay, IT is giga
nova vector
With my vers gear I’m at around 40% unbidden
steep bone
with current resistances you can easily run td5 +2x rank1 IT
nova vector
Unbuffed *
novel ruin
You have vers amps?
nova vector
I have 5 of them
novel ruin
If you already have the gear/corruption for vers, I would go for it
nova vector
I’m using TD 2 + IT 1 + vers amp 15 atm
novel ruin
Get a 2nd IT
steep bone
but find some other gear and get TD for lower keys, there's absolutely no point in not having that juicy extra damage
novel ruin
Echos are expensive
steep bone
novel ruin
Are you running Lucid Major?
nova vector
I’ve been running VoP so I don’t have to think about it
steep bone
IT r1 comes at 07/14/2020
novel ruin
If you are starting to push 20s, and wanting to continue to push, I suggest learning Lucid Major
nova vector
Will do
novel ruin
Lucid always you to do some ridiculous pulls
warm plinth
Plus it's fun as hell
novel ruin
^
warm plinth
Yeah
novel ruin
Like 8/9 mobs on right side of Atal
limpid pawn
or whole entire room at priestess atal dazar
nova vector
Guess I need to try and get 5k more echoes before tomorrow night and buy a TD3
I have one right now but it’s on my braces which is also where my only IT is
sour silo
Or survive zul 
nova vector
When does TC become useable every gcd? I feel like I’ve read somewhere that it is
novel ruin
I believe you need like 150% IT or something like that
It isn’t an actual thing, just feels like it
steep bone
With enough haste you feel like you clap every gcd but you actually don't
nova vector
Also I’m using vita 460 and h nzoth trinkets but thinking I should drop nzoth trinket for mythic scale because I rarely feel like I HAVE to use nzoth trinket
Ahh ok gotcha
novel ruin
Even if you could, in vast majority of packs there is a dangerous mob you want to focus down anyways which means SS has higher prior over TC
steep bone
you don't really need to use nzoth, but it's nice extra oh-shit button
novel ruin
Yeah def go scale until you feel like you need Nzoth trinket
steep bone
unless you go push high keys*
nova vector
I feel like it’s still good in certain dungeons. Zul is the obvious example
novel ruin
Lucid is also king in KR
nova vector
My Ilvl is 476 with 40% unbuffed vers and I did about 63k in a 19 SotS last night. Does that sound reasonable?
novel ruin
Yeah
nova vector
Run with a rogue, BM, and SP
I know one huge mistake I make often is forgetting to use SR
steep bone
You could try this weak aura https://wago.io/zcY0ZrS0d it track spells that can be reflected, not using it myself but maybe it'll make you get better hang of it
nova vector
Will def look into that
warm plinth
FWIW I don't think that WA has been updated in like...a while.
worldly ermine
What essence should i run for 16-17-18-19 ?
warm plinth
I run Lucid major, Vision, C&S and Warden minors
Can swap Lucid and Vision if you aren't comfortable with Lucid major though
raven knoll
guys for KR i just swap out for safeguard right? otherwise normal skillorder?
queen mantle
is that alchemy trinket worth it to have?
mellow patio
Paladin ☹️
novel ruin
@queen mantle Not bad, gets even better when stacking vers
chilly brook
@mellow patio well if my options are pally, DK and BrM
I think I'd rather play pally
glacial echo
I was wondering, if someone can give me a source to bis for prot warrior, because the sources Ive seen the gear was like 430 ilvl
novel ruin
bis for what @glacial echo '
glacial echo
Gear for protection warrior
novel ruin
Tanks dont really have BiS lists like DPS
But as much 475 gear as you can muster with stats you want
with sockets in everything
glacial echo
ah gotcha, so prot warrior is more biased for the way you play?
novel ruin
all tanks generally are
glacial echo
ok ty!
novel ruin
If you are pushing less than 25 keys, go for haste/crit gear with highest ilvl
TD as main corruption and then rank 1 Ineffeable truth x2
glacial echo
I also have a question about dungeons, normal, heroic, and mythic are all the same dungeons right? just scaled to be harder, cause the biggest problem I have with tanking is, since the tank basically is the leader most of the time, I want to be able to know if I am going the right direction, and not having to stop and look at the map.
novel ruin
yes, there may be some new abilities in mythic not in normal/heroic but pretty much same dungeons just harder
glacial echo
im trying to get back into tanking, cause I started WoW 1 week before classic launched, and I was having fun tanking in bfa, then when classic launched, I was having the worst time of my life, and by the time I hit lvl 55 in zul'farak, I quit lol, now I want to get back into it
worst time of my life, not as if I was not able to tank, I was able to tank, but you would get a garbage healer, and blame it on tank, garbage dps that cant kill stuff, that the healer ends up going oom, and they blame on tank, and I ended up quiting lol
steel frost
Sounds like every other week to me
glacial echo
^ true, but classic is like that on steroids
cedar stump
when comparing 2 pieces of gear, do I want haste+vers or crit+vers for M+
radiant path
Depending on the lvl of key, you will msot likely want haste>crit>=vers
cedar stump
cool, thanks!
radiant path
Around 23+, you'll want to switch to vers
cedar stump
keys in the 15-20 range for now
sick sentinel
i'm book marking that WA because i'm only on pc waiting for phone to charge
i'll definitely use it nextweek/tomorrow
cedar stump
but Nae it sounds like Haste>Crit in all scenarios?
sick sentinel
just want enough phone charge that i can play a game or browse web some crap long enough to fall asleep
haste crit for m+ up to 23 and beyond yes
haste vers for raiding?
onyx vessel
I use vers amps anyways cuz i dont care
novel ruin
Haste crit up to 23s, then haste/vers
sick sentinel
haste because more GCD/cooldowns, crit for damage and you parry more auto's which is like 75% of dmg you take.
onyx vessel
sick sentinel
i doubt most people ever reach +23 keys though
onyx vessel
I dont see why telling everyone to run this till 23s then switch when you can run vers amps and do prefectly fine
Oh no my td dmg doesnt carry me
Caring about dps as a tank
sick sentinel
best i've done on time is a +16 junk, and i could likely do a +17 +18, but that sounds like way too much stress to me
onyx vessel
onyx vessel
If only i cared
radiant path
Defensively, it's gonna be the best. If you can run it at 23 and above, then its technically the best... But if you want to help out the group as a whole, then learn how to tank properly and run haste/TD
novel ruin
^
grand drum
vers amp is useless if you have no vers gear like me 
sick sentinel
but like, if you are having trouble with +15s without versa, you are doing it 100% wrong to begin with. probably blocking no attacks, probably standing in all the fire.
onyx vessel
Then run td6
novel ruin
exaclty
onyx vessel
Not vers
radiant path
Also, I recently switched to Memory of Lucid Dreams... Holy shit balls. That thing is incredible when used right!
novel ruin
if you are doing 20s and having trouble, vers amps wont save you
onyx vessel
Fill with IT1s
radiant path
You can't die while it's up
grand drum
yea it works wonders on the fear boss in m+
onyx vessel
I use to struggle a bit on the fear add
sick sentinel
good use of spell reflect helps alot too because it has such a short CD and -20% magic damage is never a bad thing
onyx vessel
Till i roasted the healer to stop dispelling themselves instead of me
sick sentinel
still not a fan of that tank buster dude
icy mist
thoughts on lingering sporepods (underot trink)
onyx vessel
sick sentinel
tank buster and slime are only 2 i get concerned about pulling
onyx vessel
Emote for it
onyx vessel
Trash
icy mist
ty
blazing gale
U can literally run around with Spirit Breaker and he doesnt cast it even once
restive plaza
does the method website have tips for m+ dungeons for prot warriors?
sick sentinel
eventually led to me leaving.
grand drum
last place i would look is the method website for any tips lol
novel ruin
@restive plaza what are you wanting to know? Pins here have a great resource for M+ to start with
sick sentinel
tips for tanking: don't let anyone die an avoidable death, kill things before they can kill you
restive plaza
I was just trying to find out if there was certain things I should be taking for dungeons I've never tanked before
or like if there's a spell that's reflectable
that kind of stuff
novel ruin
Pins has a spreadsheet
restive plaza
for certain dungeons?
sick sentinel
which ones?
restive plaza
WM and temple
sick sentinel
WM take the first obelisk all the way to witches room no matter what group has to stay with you though
temple is easy
main vault
Any GM who says Sporepods is the best is not a place I am willing to be
novel ruin
I sometimes take first ob to courtyard if we dont get top left
blazing gale
How does one get 475 items witch leech 
sick sentinel
Plz blizz no more versa mastery in mythic box tuesday
sweet summit
Spreadsheet in #268491842637660160
ionic fern
@blazing gale get a 475 item and buy the leech corruption. Beat the system . 👍
still pagoda
mellow patio
leech?
undone sun
no
lavish hearth
Never buy leech. You want the passive leech and then TD or vers depending on fuck ups and key levels
shadow wagon
is there a good resource to have that will tell you what % you need to have before going down to certain areas in a dungeon?
like in waycrest, i know you need to have 80% before you go down to the lady
but there's lots of dungeons where I just don't know
knotty fiber
If I already have VoP rank 3, what essence should I buy next? CnS, lucid?
sweet summit
Yes, its called experience
MDT is also good to play around with
CnS and Lucid, yeah
ionic fern
Mdt is your best bet jep.
radiant path
This week is 87% on Waycrest if you're going straight down to boss room.
knotty fiber
Is one of them going to provide more of a benefit than the other?
shadow wagon
but i don't need a whole route i just need basic shit
sweet summit
CnS>Lucid
shadow wagon
like don't go past here without this much %
knotty fiber
thank
sweet summit
Again, experience/playing around with MDT
radiant path
A really easy way to tell is to download MDT and creating a new profile. Then only mark the mobs/obelisks that you're going to pull down there
that will tell you how much percent you need
Then you can create a weak aura
onyx vessel
Already is one
radiant path
When you're in Waycrest, have something on the side of your screen that tells you what percent you need
Well ignore me then ahha
And go download that 😂
onyx vessel
Auto mark i think is what its called
onyx vessel
Very customizable
blazing gale
AutoMark is for marking enemies with interrupt abilities?
blazing gale
You have name of every enemy in game and assign mark to the name doesnt matter if u pull them or not, dont know how it works with route
onyx vessel
Yes it does
Route wise no
Only marks dangerous mobs
Get mythic dungeon tools
Old method dungeon tools but renamed for obv reasons
Find routes from raider.io by dratnos and look at the map
Simple
hollow cypress
hey i started playing a prot warrior a few days go for the first time ever really and I've been pushing some keys with 3 (pretty undergeared) friends for the fun of it. We were timing +9s but in some fights in particular I was taking huge damage. I assume this will improve with iLvl as I've been spamming AD but can't for the life of me get a shield. Mine is still 400 ilvl so i know I'm missing out on a ton of armour and block.
If anyone has any tips for atal dazar specifically that would be much appreciated. Serrated teeth on rezan seems to be the biggest issue for me atm
sorry for wall of text xd
sweet summit
Dont drop shield block even if you feel like ignore pain would be better. Its not
Use shield wall, last stand, pool some rage to have ignore pains ontop of shield block
hollow cypress
makes sense ty
I guess other than that having dps that are more geared to make the fight go quicker is the next best thing
sweet summit
Also healer externals
ionic fern
Avatar/DS usage + the general rage circle.
radiant path
Make sure to communicate with the healer. Don't stack your big CDs togehter. Use shield wall on one and have healer sacrifice, bark skin, etc. on the next
hollow cypress
yeah I'm fortunate to have a good resto dudu who i can be in voice with all the time
radiant path
Sweet
hollow cypress
that was the main reason I wanted to start playing my warrior
it's fun to communicate and know when we can do big pulls and such
just hope i get a shield soon :(
radiant path
Yeah, I got lucky... The first two weekly chests on my warrior were a 475 weapon and a 475 shield haha
hollow cypress
that must have been amazing
sweet summit
That fight has no other healing required other than serrated teeth, so make the healer pump some heals once you have the bleed. Then go back to catfrom and dps
sweet summit
👌
chilly brook
Guilds that don't update their WoWProgress are cancer
Same with guilds that have "all classes" under the recruiting section
Wait what
"Tanks are recruited internally so new recruits may apply to only dps or heal role. New recruits go through a 2-week period of trial."
What the.....
undone sun
chilly brook
"Hey I see on your wowprog page that you're seeking a Vengeance DH at high priority"
"Oh we've been trialing someone for that since last week"
sweet summit
civic rover
that was me in legion
"hey i see you need a bear tank based on wowprog"
"nah sorry bro we already got a dude"
sweet summit
civic rover
playing bear for three tiers made me absolutely hate it
chilly brook
"We already have insert tank class here "
As if you can't run two of insert tank class here
hallow phoenix
That one is my favorite
knotty fiber
bear is nice but simple. no one really wants bear for push groups...
so, that is also why I now have a warrior
ionic fern
Bears are good tho.:(
knotty fiber
I think they're fine, but I can't seem to get in a decent group :v could just be because I'm on alliance and there's slim pickings for groups
sweet summit
Alliance omegalul?
knotty fiber
I took a long break and returned to my old guild last tier, so I didn't have much experience with keys and didn't realize that the factions were so skewed
ionic fern
@sweet summit says the dude who was alliance just a couple of months ago,smh.
left sedge
which of the mechagon rings are suggested for tanks, the prot gear list on icy-veins only has hivemind and nzoth rings listed
sweet summit
3 abilities+haste
chilly brook
Actually annoyed at how much value people give BrM
civic rover
i mean it's not totally undeserved
brewmaster literally can't get one shot and it's very easy to pick up and play
chilly brook
Eh
They can be one shot
Believe me
I've played one for a decent amount of this xpac and last
brisk sapphire
guys, does 2nd boss in underrot hit particularly hard?
civic rover
on tyrannical tantrum can hit hard yeah
chilly brook
@brisk sapphire only indigestion tbh
civic rover
yeahthat too
chilly brook
But you can outrange it
civic rover
but you can leap out of it
brisk sapphire
so cant sidestep it?
brisk sapphire
oh..ill try that next time lol
and the last boss the junkyard
i left so squishy there
copper pewter
Just watch out for melee dps who aren't aware of frontal cones.. and teach them a lesson
steep wraith
You can block wreck, so make sure you have it up
steep wraith
Yeah, or last stand
brisk sapphire
cool, ill remember that
chilly brook
@civic rover tbh I feel more tanky on Vengeance than I do BrM
brisk sapphire
and how much vers should i have for 15s ?
brisk sapphire
or its not important yet?
civic rover
on progress i run nzoth trinket and urchin on brewmaster, i literally don't die.
chilly brook
If you have to ask about whether you should use vers you shouldn't
sweet summit
Any % is ok
brisk sapphire
sorry lol i played bdk on m+ and hated it so much so used to stack ver early
sweet summit
Thats because vers is also your best dps stat most likely
chilly brook
I cant really think of a point where I've died that wasnt a wipe on my BrM but the same could be said about my DH tbh
civic rover
i think all the tanks feel pretty good though
i don't think any of them are outperformed by others to the point it would ever actually matter
chilly brook
I agree
And most of these guilds also aren't in a position where they need to leverage the class performance tbh
civic rover
yeah
i'd play druid more but three tiers of it in legion was enough for me
i've been gearing up a paladin too and they're pretty fun
chilly brook
I've just found I really enjoy vengeance
And I want to play it
But the current offer I have is a CE guild who is moving one of their tanks to DPS but they want me playing BrM/Pally/DK
civic rover
idk why they wouldn't want vengeance tbh
mellow patio
Demand to play vdh
civic rover
i think it's pretty good
chilly brook
Because they already have one
sweet summit
Fuck em
mellow patio
It’s good rn but is an unsafe bet moving into another expac but not wanting two of same tank is 4head
civic rover
two grip sigils on vexiona though
chilly brook
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
civic rover
that's pretty lame though i think vengeance is actually pretty good
my co tank is vengeance and he just runs TD and pumps while being an absolute unit
chilly brook
If I could find a guild that's like anywhere between 8-10m that let's me play whatever tank I want that's what I would go for tbh
mellow patio
I always tell my guild when the class I play is the reason we are not killing a boss I will reroll
chilly brook
Like I understand wanting to have the "safe" class but that's why I keep more than one tank up to date
mellow patio
Because if I am expected to play a specific class, I will expect the same of healers and dps
What guild is it?
civic rover
gossip 😮
mellow patio
Allow me to stalk them
civic rover
lol
chilly brook
Poutine
mellow patio
What server
sweet summit
That name sounds familiar 👀
chilly brook
Probably because Excidias is the DH tank?
civic rover
my personal take, if they aren't gonna let you play your favorite class i wouldn't bother. what's the point if you aren't having fun
mellow patio
I don’t think I could ever do a 3 day schedule again
chilly brook
You on a 2 or 4?
mellow patio
2 lmao you think I would log on to raid 4 times a week
sweet summit
2 days 4 hours?
chilly brook
Yes
mellow patio
3 hours
chilly brook
Because you play a panda
sweet summit
I see
mellow patio
How dare you shit on my panda
chilly brook
I'm not
civic rover
pandas are fucking cute
chilly brook
Remember I'm a panda boi too
lunar slate
I just switched from Prot pal to Prot war...still hope I made the right choice. See couple of ppl switching to other tank classes
mellow patio
Prot war is 🐐
sweet summit
Warrior owns
chilly brook
Now is the time
civic rover
i think both are fun
mellow patio
Prot pal smells of goat cheese and urine
sweet summit
Sleep well mate
strong crescent
I don’t know how people raid period lol
mellow patio
I used to do it, but then realized if I get a group of really good players and focus for two days a week we can smoke a lot of 3 day guilds
strong crescent
Always felt more like a job than anything enjoyable
civic rover
prog is pretty fun with good people
mellow patio
Good players make raiding enjoyable
civic rover
but for it to be fun everyones gotta know their shit
mellow patio
Bad players make raiding awful
civic rover
one or two people underperforming can really hurt a mythic raid team
like recently on /r/competitivewow someone posted their guilds mythic shad logs
strong crescent
M+ feels more manageable in that respect
civic rover
they had like 15 people not playing their classes correctly
mellow patio
Pushing m+ feels more like a job lmao... “here let me enter this key that is obviously going to suck but we have to do it to get another one. Hopefully we time it”
strong crescent
Ya but I can do it on my schedule
civic rover
i think both are fun
strong crescent
Atleast I’m my own boss
civic rover
both offer ways for people to get good gear. some people don't have time to raid, some people only want to raid and aren't interested in timed dungeons.
mellow patio
Both are fun, why I play the games
strong crescent
Ya time is my biggest reason for not raiding
My work schedule just doesn’t allow it
mellow patio
But I am blessed to not play with turds so my time is more enjoyable than most
civic rover
i have like 25 people on my friendslist who i can count on to do well in keys
i never have to pug
mellow patio
I like to pug
sweet summit
Friends 
mellow patio
I feel as though I am giving a gift
civic rover
LOL
mellow patio
I will pug several 15s per week where I will invite the first people that sign up
If your ilvl is 390, you’re in
It’s my good deed back to the community
civic rover
i do guild weekly 15s and it's either super silky smooth or we spend an hour in a JY
mellow patio
Lmao I’m a tank I make my guildies boost my Alts
civic rover
some people are pretty capable M+ players and others just want the weekly 15 because my RL requires it
you can imagine what gchat looks like monday night at 9 pm
sweet summit
Mood
strong crescent
Last minute panic
mellow patio
Hawgbear went resto for a week and timed a 16 whilst doing 12.4k hps
strong crescent
Monday’s I get way more messages asking me to tank
People come outta the wood work lol
mellow patio
Make Alts and tell them you will carry their main if they carry your alt
That stops people from asking
Or the real ones will answer the call
strong crescent
All my alts that are geared are tanks too lol
mellow patio
So make them boost your tank
sweet summit
Same
mellow patio
Gross how you got that much energy my man
mellow patio
I maintain 3 tanks and can barely stand it
civic rover
2 of them have like rank 4 cloak
mellow patio
That’s cloak and all tho
strong crescent
Cloak is so annoying
mellow patio
Ok Jesus max resist on 3 chars
strong crescent
I already hate dailies let alone having to run the same ones over and over on all my toons just to lvl up the cloaks
civic rover
i got laid off of work so i have nothing but time
strong crescent
Fair enough
mellow patio
Fair
sweet summit
Unlucky
strong crescent
My work slowed down a bit in April and may so I was actually able to play consistently for the first time in years
mellow patio
At this point I just gear a char until it can make reclear then it’s 475 after a week cause guild just funnels
Once it’s full BiS it goes on the shelf and I start another
civic rover
i'll be able to go back to work once this covid stuff really dies down which will hopefully not be super long from now but not totally sure
but my parents are vulnerable so my boss won't let me work
strong crescent
Hope your folks stay healthy!
civic rover
yeah, i think they'll be okay
my area thankfully hasn't been affected super badly but i worked at a grocery store
strong crescent
I just want to be able to work overtime again lol
I had over 500 hours of OT last year and when oil prices crashed pretty much stopped all that in its tracks
You all in the states?
civic rover
yeah california
strong crescent
Ya you guys just getting smashed by this thing
We’ve been doing better lately up here in Canada
civic rover
my area only has had like 400 cases
strong crescent
That’s good!
civic rover
but i also live in the middle of nowhere
strong crescent
Ya I’m way up in butt fuck no where Canada
civic rover
like bay area has been hit very hard
strong crescent
Northern Canada that is so we’re like 5 hours from a major city and we’ve been on tighter lock down than more places due to the oil and gas industry up here
They don’t wanna have to shut down any of the plants so they’ve been way more strict
still pagoda
Actually annoyed at how much value people give BrM
@chilly brook
BrM has few really good utility features, but on parr warr IMO
Tank balance is nearly ideal rn IMO
daring bay
Damn boi, just started tanking in raids and we got to mythic nzoth. That boi hurts
Like, i might have to build a little bit vers? not just full TD
sweet summit
Generally you dont need any vers to tank raids. but if you really want to, sure go ahead. I cant stop you
daring bay
I mean, i just feel weak and feel like i am generating no rage
we are all dying but i am to
from the tenties
sweet summit
The lash or whatever?
daring bay
basher tentacle
daring bay
Yes
sweet summit
Is it that, or just everything?
hallow phoenix
You can spell reflect the first tick of void lash which helps a lot
sweet summit
Thats neat
hallow phoenix
I alternate psychic shell and shield wall for the void lashes, with demo and reflect up for each one
daring bay
Will give it a try, and i am geussing they only cast it once when you actually have some proper progression?
hallow phoenix
If you have a paladin they can bop you during it to negate the physical portion, otherwise just call for normal externals
daring bay
Had multiable void lashes
sweet summit
Yeah, we barely get one iirc
hallow phoenix
Yeah two void lashes per basher is yikes
On some of them (combust ones) they don't even get to cast it
Negating the first tick with SR already puts you in a solid position though
daring bay
how many times does it tick?
sweet summit
5?
hallow phoenix
Idk like 5 or something
Everyone says warrior is bad at magic but I find it to be excellent at most magic mechanics (barring encounters like zul or maut tank)
still pagoda
Void lash comes up and syncs with your cds easily
hallow phoenix
I'm not sure if it will deflect unless used for first tick, I've never tried @sick sentinel
still pagoda
Everyone says warrior is bad at magic but I find it to be excellent at most magic mechanics (barring encounters like zul or maut tank)
@hallow phoenix
Unironically, BrM is the worst in this department
sweet summit
BrM can just zen med
still pagoda
hallow phoenix
Apparently marekthas fang hits explosive orbs so I'm actually excited for next explosive week
sweet summit
No thats not ok
hallow phoenix
Which part
still pagoda
sweet summit
Fang hitting explosives
hallow phoenix
Survival hunter explosive shot thingy used to (still does?) cleave them too
hallow phoenix
I'll never forget when someone submitted that bug report the day it was noticed and got a "we'll look into resolving this bug" from blizz cs
Followed by complete radio silence
sweet summit
😶
halcyon coyote
Is it normal to get 1 gcd gaps in between shield blocks?
sweet summit
Wdym?
halcyon coyote
It seems like I get hit at least once if I don't start with 2 charges
Like from 2nd to 3rd sb
hallow phoenix
You can't have 100% shield block uptime in a long enough fight
halcyon coyote
I don't have it up by the time the 2nd expires
sweet summit
How low is your haste??
still pagoda
Ok so they can cleave to orbs, but we cant get vr procs????????
@sweet summit
I remember proccing War Machine off of the orbs back in Legion
That was turboDPS moment
hallow phoenix
Big fun detected moment
still pagoda
With 100% uptime BL
halcyon coyote
18% haste before fray
still pagoda
I sacrificed all vers to the haste god
And even in semi-vers set i have 34% before ItF
halcyon coyote
O damn
strong crescent
Ya I’m up over 40% haste before fray it’s amazing
ornate peak
i have a question, would you go for 2x deafening crash or 2x clockwork heart? 🤔
still pagoda
2xCwH
sweet summit
1x DC and the rest CwH and whatever
still pagoda
and get 1 Deafening Clash somewhere else
+21KR
Mage doing 55k DPS on first boss
same for all other DPS
ornate peak
yeah i already have 1 deafening.. thanks guys ill go for 2x clock
still pagoda
still pagoda
but mage...
ffs
how can you ever do 55k DPS when you have all your CD's and BL on pull?
sweet summit
Death?
modern brook
Did he have cds?
Sometimes fire mages trip on their social anxiety and forget to ask to delay pulls when they misuse their combust
sweet summit
Play kindling and buust every pull
languid light
Hey guys, question, how do you tank Raal with his whole room, without letting the adds hit your back?
Not the adds, the trash.
sweet summit
Speedpot and grab them all, then move to raal and position yourself
modern brook
^ if u grab the whole room, and grab them on the right
Take them to the left of the boss
That way you're facing everything
toxic atlas
do you guys quest as prot or go dps spec
modern brook
Just pull them across the boss really
toxic atlas
im only 331 but this nazjatar questline is rough cus i do 12k dps lmaoo
modern brook
Quest as prot is op cause u cant get knocked off mount
sweet summit
True
modern brook
Tbh at 331 ur gunna go just as slow in dps but you might also die
But it doesnt matter all 3 specs are good for world content
I'd suggest making sure you're using the right talent set up and rotation, then pulling more aggressively
Most of our damage cleaves without damage loss so fighting 1 thing at a time takes as long as 10
still pagoda
Sometimes fire mages trip on their social anxiety and forget to ask to delay pulls when they misuse their combust
@modern brook
I'm tracking that bitch
ez
worldly ermine
someone got a reflect maccro or something for people know when u reflect ?
kind lynx
/say REFLECT?
still pagoda
just write in /s with whatever you want on top of
#showtooltip
/cast Spell Reflect
sweet summit
VoP major
Cns+lucid+sphere/warden minors
surreal elm
What do you use to sim for medium keys? Slice fine, or something else?
mystic yoke
hi guys, what addon are people using to auto mark casters etc in dungeons?
surreal elm
Really?
sweet summit
Patchwerk like 5-6 targets
Dslice isnt great
@mystic yoke a weakaura i think, called auto marker
mystic yoke
ok cool, thanks
halcyon coyote
rocky linden
Hmm, I see the weekly route from raider.io goes priestess first this week in AD, is that what you guys do too?
sweet summit
Always
halcyon coyote
is it even worth to kill that thrash with lust
sweet summit
Most times*
rocky linden
How come people stopped doing Rezan first? Because of awakening portals?
rocky linden
Hmm, alrighty then
jolly thistle
I usually go rezan first on tyrannical weeks and priestess on fortified
still pagoda
@rocky linden @sweet summit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqucsHq2jEw
wouldn't say that everyone goes priestess on tyr weeks
rocky linden
ty!
still pagoda
the question is really how you want to line up your BL's
i personally go rezan > vol > priestess > yazma this week
to get perfect BL line up
if it goes faster then intended get a bit more trash in the meanwhile
steep bone
which one gonna be easier to boost, 5 mask with boostie who's healer or dps but he does negative dps?
brisk storm
I had a guy pull the entire room for priestess into the boss on a 20 surprisingly it worked nobody died took 2 minutes the first blood phase was messed up but overall saved a ton of time
sweet summit
Always pull trash onto bosses if affixes allow for it tbh
brisk storm
I agree but the amount was pretty ballsy with adds that could easily cause wipes with the fiery enchant and what not
halcyon coyote
@still pagoda 100% agree on that. lust rezan, then do middle thrash
until around like
4 mins lust or 3 mins till lust
and then right side (vol) thrash
brisk storm
I’ve seen people pull all the middle trash including the ramp towards it snap and lust that and it worked well idk everyone seems to have their own spin on atal
I mean I had a guy pull the crap outside of vol kal yesterday and log after we wiped
chilly brook
@steep bone if hes in healer spec it will be easier in terms of mobs have less HP
steep bone
Oh poggies so healer it is
storm elk
Is there a guide or anything that lets me know good times to use SR? Like on the first boss in Workshop and the flame jets.
ionic fern
When ever:
1)You have a specific thing to reflect (Check the #268491842637660160 reflectable spreadsheet)
2)You are taking magic damage
storm elk
Is there a spreasheet like that one available for M+? thats super helpful!
Ignore me i found the tabs
ionic fern
👍
orchid frigate
Think I heard a rumor or something when SL started to get datamined that there was a engi belt that worked like meld. Have I dreamt this up?
ionic fern
sweet summit
can you move when stealthed?
dry bridge
How much ineffable should i be running?
rocky linden
2xr1
dry bridge
What does that put the cd on block down to just curious
rocky linden
Dunno, I just care about the claps :p
sullen valve
This discord is kind of pathetic in terms of theorycrafting and intelligent protection warrior discussion.
Is there a better one?
sullen valve
Wait you responded too fast
ionic fern
sullen valve
What do you mean
All I hear about for raid is DAMAGE. Who wants to do damage. You're a tank. You only goal would is to take as little damage as possible
ionic fern
Please Mr.Abe stop trolling. You'll give some wrong impression to people lurking.
Smh.
orchid frigate
🍿
sullen valve
OI. Coming in and talking to yall is always fun no matter how short
still pagoda
halcyon coyote
gl
brisk storm
Has anyone here had alpha access ?
modern brook
still pagoda
warm plinth
Only 84k DPS smh
novel ruin
@still pagoda Are you EU? Why king first?
novel ruin
You can get 4 or 5 shock bots depending on comp before first pull by going to Gunker.
novel ruin
Missing out on a ton of extra damage that way. Plus I assume you lusted King therefore holding onto lust for a good 5-6 minutes of the dungeon
fluid inlet
guys quick question, for Prot warrior Versa build I saw some warriors that uses 28% base haste and some others that sacrifices some haste to stack more versa, like having 22% base haste and then they stack full versa, what do you guys think is the sweet spot in terms of base haste?
I'm tanking basically only M+
mellow patio
Get as much haste as you can
People start to put on vers as they get to higher keys to smooth out damage a bit and make bigger pulls more easily executable and avoid one shots
But in general unless you are doing keys in the 23/24 range it probably isn’t necessary
fluid inlet
I'm aiming to push 23s and forward, but not sure if I should sacrifice haste and reduce 28% to 22% in order to have more versa, right now I have 28% haste 25% versa, but wanna start buying a bunch of versa 3 wich may reduce my haste to 22%
so I'm not sure if I should sacrifice that 6% haste to increase my versa even more, or if I should hold that 28% haste and get as much versa as I can holding the 28% haste
sweet summit
22% is fine, as around that is where you can get 3x SBsback to back to back
mellow patio
Ye if stacking versatile more base vers is almost always the play
fluid inlet
thx appreciate it
orchid frigate
have a friend that wants to join our guild but he can't gquit from the old one (he's not gm). any ideas that might help?
chilly brook
@orchid frigate care to explain why he can't gquit?
modern brook
every time i look at someone elses ui im like why
chilly brook
R8 my UI babe https://youtu.be/Fg6n9MFTmVE
mellow patio
custom UIs 
🤔
sweet summit
i miss the days of infinite demo shout
chilly brook
I too miss the 80% uptime @sweet summit
strong forum
I miss the days of enjoying games
sweet summit
mood
strong forum
Read the d4 quarterly update today
I almost died of hype again
Every time I think about d4.
It's gonna be the best 2 weeks ever that I'll nolife.
olive gust
searing flames any good?>
still pagoda
searing flames any good?>
@olive gust
Worse TD1
olive gust
worse than td 1 ur saying?
i just got mechagon wep with td 3 lol
at 13k was famring all weekend for td 3
get it at end of run ..
steep bone
@sweet summit you feel like doing 21 sob tommoro?
steep bone
Maan I had GIGA pugs and we twochested 19wm so now ive nice poggies keys
No freehold tho 😦
steep bone
i hate last boss tyran pug sob
still pagoda
i hate pugs
yet continue to pug keys since i don't really have group
at least for now
olive gust
i have a baby 2.5k hpally if interested
olive gust
rip
cloud wind
are there any good youtubers to learn dungeon pathing and what packs to pull
still pagoda
both of us are EU
olive gust
im us H , looking for competent tank to push with
steep bone
@cloud wind NerftankTV
still pagoda
Deswind
steep bone
hes doing pug runs with in-depth explaination what and why he's doing something, so you actually see keys from pug pov that's not as coordinated as dedicated group
olive gust
hes streaming rn?
steep bone
dunno but he has videos on yt
cloud wind
thx
sweet summit
i could if i have time, yeah