protection

[distant crystal]

feint is really good

even w/o illusiveness

[novel ruin]

Feint really good too

But ironbark is a personal that doesn’t have to be a personal

[distant crystal]

that's another big plus for rogues in M+, really hard to die

[novel ruin]

^

[sick sentinel]

that's called an external

[left hatch]

eh moving the goalpost at that rate imo, looking at it strictly as a personal and not as an external

its not as good

[sick sentinel]

that goes for like

[novel ruin]

I guess

[gilded tapir]

extra melee range is actually pog for melee

[sick sentinel]

the thing literally every healer has

in that vein

[distant crystal]

i mean barkskin is the personal

[sick sentinel]

bop is a personal that doesn't have to be a personal

[left hatch]

yeh barkskin isn't as good

[raven knoll]

one more question on last boss of mechagon workshop i cant block anything in first phase rlly right? do i just ignore pain? or am i missing somethign

[grave lily]

ret has the best personal

[left hatch]

correct, but a lot of the time you do it with blob boi

[distant crystal]

@raven knoll reflect on cd

IP

[left hatch]

so you still have to block that

[distant crystal]

and shieldblock for the rage spend/dam

[novel ruin]

Reflect pulse blast and spam ignore pain

[sick sentinel]

ya reflect is also fucking nuts

btw

[novel ruin]

Yeah

[distant crystal]

p good spell

[sick sentinel]

easily >> barkskin

[distant crystal]

is it baseline in slands?

[novel ruin]

Reflect may be best personal

[sick sentinel]

ya

for arms too

xD

[raven knoll]

okey thanks!!

[distant crystal]

that's amazing

[left hatch]

theres a legendary that makes it group wide

[distant crystal]

o my

[left hatch]

which has some huge meme damage potential

depending on how hte fights are

[novel ruin]

Don’t know if it reflects though as a group

[sick sentinel]

that's stupid

if it works that way

[distant crystal]

mass spell reflect pvp talent?

[sick sentinel]

that means as a utility legendary it's going to outclass damage legendaries for at minimum 1 person in raid

which is dumb

[novel ruin]

And if warrior reflects something, group dr may fall off

[left hatch]

yeh but not in yet so can't test ):

might just be a 20% 5s DR for your group

which is still pretty disgusting

[novel ruin]

I assume it’s that

Which is pretty amazing since magic damage destroys

[sick sentinel]

i really only hope you can only use that legendary as prot

[grave lily]

mass spell deflect

[left hatch]

also one that applies 50% of SW to your party, and a soulbind that reduces SW's cd by 20s and is potentially stackable/scales with ilvl

so warrior gonna be the big boi for raid defensives

[sick sentinel]

i hate it

[novel ruin]

But raid tanking

[sick sentinel]

thanks

[novel ruin]

Sucks

[left hatch]

big true

[novel ruin]

M+ tanking most fun I’ve ever had in the game

[left hatch]

eh iv been enjoying dpsing M+ lately after tank maining from MoP-this tier

its way more relaxing

[sick sentinel]

raid tanking is very boring

[novel ruin]

Except for killing lich king in wraith after being taunted all expansion

DPS super relaxing. Crazy how much stuff you don’t care about or notice when you just press buttons lol

[left hatch]

yeh

way less pressure too

any fuckup when i was tanking i took it as a personal mistake, even if it was another person

dps i just don't care lol

[novel ruin]

I love creating routes

[left hatch]

i did my best, thats good enough even if we scuffed

yeh i switched with my friend, so i still make the route for him (:

all the power, none of the responsibility

[novel ruin]

Lol

[left hatch]

absolute win

[novel ruin]

True

I also been playing around in 15-20s with holy Pally

[left hatch]

im still deatlhy afraid of healing

i tried resto Druid in legion and

yikes

[novel ruin]

The balance between healing and doing damage super interesting to me

[sick sentinel]

hope it goes away

the "free damage" meta

[left hatch]

was about to say

if healers can't do damage

[novel ruin]

Free damage?

[left hatch]

what are they supposed to do

XD

[sick sentinel]

yes

only way to balance disc priest is to remove it from the game

[left hatch]

idk, i think having options like kickweaving is interesting

[sick sentinel]

you will NEVER see a mistweaver, resto druid, or holy priest in world first prog

[novel ruin]

If healers don’t do damage, I wouldn’t want to play em

[sick sentinel]

i mean

all healers do damage

but all healers don't do FREE damage

[novel ruin]

Holy Pally doesn’t do free damage

[left hatch]

i have basically no knowledge of how pally damage works, but don't you have to invest in talents and traits

[sick sentinel]

it does

it heals by damaging

[left hatch]

to make their damage build work

[sick sentinel]

casting holy shock on a player or a target deals damage or heals all targets affected by glimmer

[novel ruin]

You have to make the choice of what to glimmer

[sick sentinel]

using crusader of might also causes crusader strike to lessen the cooldown of holy shock

[novel ruin]

Yes

[sick sentinel]

judgment is free

[novel ruin]

That isn’t free damage though...

[sick sentinel]

it is pretty free, yeah

[novel ruin]

Resto shaman arguably does the most ST damage of any healer

But they have to choose between healing and damaging

[sick sentinel]

battle shaman was a thing for literally 1 fight

jaina

it was not relevant before

and it has not been relevant since

[novel ruin]

People care way too much about a meta that doesn’t affect them

[left hatch]

yeh 'what's used in world first' means virtually nothing

[sick sentinel]

i mean

i find it interesting

so i care about it

[left hatch]

prot isn't relevent if thats your metric

[sick sentinel]

why am i not allowed to care about things

[novel ruin]

You are

[sick sentinel]

this topic is irrelevant to this channel anyway

[left hatch]

eh prot goes off topic super often

as long as its not bogging down ppl looking for help it doesn't really matter

[novel ruin]

But trying to base an argument and saying something is or is not relevant is misleading when the information handed out is not applicable to 99.9% of players

[sick sentinel]

representation

while not as important as in real life

still counts for something in this game

[left hatch]

yeh, there is a stigma attached towards whats used in super high end gameplay

[novel ruin]

Every question someone has asked while we’ve been discussing stuff has been answered

[left hatch]

and things become 'not viable' solely because the top .1% arn't using them

right, which is why its not a problem (:

[sick sentinel]

that has nothing to do with what I've said

but I agree

[left hatch]

then i have no idea what yo'ure talking about with representation

[sick sentinel]

after like week 4 your comp stops mattering

wf rep

[left hatch]

missed your point

[sick sentinel]

again

you're not going to see a lot of specs in the "Race to wf"

which is now WoW's real psuedo-e-sports event

[novel ruin]

All healers should be more like disc

[sick sentinel]

disagree

[novel ruin]

Why?

[sick sentinel]

disc is fundamentally unhealthy for the game and for healing

but it is the most fun

because you don't choose between doing damage and healing

[novel ruin]

It’s incredibly rewarding

[sick sentinel]

you do both at the same time

it's too rewarding

[novel ruin]

Perhaps

[sick sentinel]

disc becomes the default for 3 reasons

it pumps damage

it pumps healing

and it has barrier

[left hatch]

eh thats a bigger topic that also loops in Immunities with it

[novel ruin]

It does those first 2 in specific windows

[left hatch]

like certain fights will always require X amount of rogues/mages etc

[sick sentinel]

i am aware of ramps

[left hatch]

in WF

[sick sentinel]

but that is not important

for sure

but for example maevey played rsham on nzoth

and it's not because rsham was super great

it's because he was super good at it

but mistweaver, for ex, brings nothing.

[novel ruin]

Rsham horrible for nzoth

[sick sentinel]

nah

gust and link kinda own

ur trolling

[left hatch]

don't they have the highest tank throughput? (could be wrong cause i know next to nothing about healing)

[sick sentinel]

ye but that isn't important

relatively

[left hatch]

idk thats not nothing, Gwarm thats literally all that mattered

[sick sentinel]

raid dam is the important part

guarm was almost 2 expansions ago

and not even an endboss

[novel ruin]

You literally would gain more from bringing a holy Pally than rsham

[sick sentinel]

correct

doesn't mean rsham is horrible tho

[novel ruin]

Nzoth is horrible for rsham.

[sick sentinel]

you would gain more bringing an hpal/disc compared to literally any other spec in the game

[left hatch]

tbf no class is really horrible right now (for raid at least)

[novel ruin]

Way too much movement and not enough stacking

[sick sentinel]

now, sure

but now it doesn't matter what you bring

[novel ruin]

It didn’t matter what you brought in the first week...

[sick sentinel]

we ran 1 hpal, 1 disc, 1 rdruid, 1 mw

idk about that

i don't have logs, I couldn't tell you specifically

[novel ruin]

We aren’t world first raiders

[sick sentinel]

that's irrelevant

and changing the topic

[novel ruin]

Not really

[sick sentinel]

I literally just told you I brought it up because I care about it

if you want to stop talking about it, that's cool

but I never changed the scope of the conversation

[novel ruin]

???

You literally said first week

[left hatch]

nah i think just misunderstood your passion for a metric of viability

[knotty fiber]

Getting a straight minute of vop procs in a key feels amazing

jeeze

[sick sentinel]

everything is viable

ya

[novel ruin]

All healers has enough HPS for progression the first week

Had*

[left hatch]

and id say that WF strats arn't even the most optimal strats

[knotty fiber]

I thought vop was nice on bear but it's even better for war

[left hatch]

since a lot of it is built around eeking out every bit of ST damage to bypass mechanics

[novel ruin]

Avatar feels amazing

[sick sentinel]

very rarely do people have optimal strats

it's mostly about molding what you can do at that point in time around your comp

[knotty fiber]

I do feel it's more annoying to keep up mitigation while avatar is up tho

[sick sentinel]

but I feel like the coolest thing I saw this expansion is xyronic figuring out the mythrax lock snap

[knotty fiber]

mostly 'cause I just wanna tc

[left hatch]

TC helps with that tho?

[novel ruin]

How? Shield block isn’t on GCD

[left hatch]

SB isn't on the gcd and TC gives you lotsa rage 😄

[strong crescent]

How about that local sports team

[novel ruin]

What are sports?

[left hatch]

i really liked squid lady... her name eluding me rn

[sick sentinel]

woo

sports

azshara

[left hatch]

yeh

ty

[sick sentinel]

bad healing fight 😦

fun dps

[knotty fiber]

I just wanna spend all my rage on revenge tho

[novel ruin]

😮

[left hatch]

watching them have boomies offheal

was 😮

[sick sentinel]

true

[novel ruin]

Plz don’t

[left hatch]

In some instances Lyvern revenge is a dps loss

[knotty fiber]

for real?

[novel ruin]

Yes

[left hatch]

Yeh, its on the GCD while IP isn't

[sick sentinel]

if u die u do 0 dps

[left hatch]

so its a less efficient spender and could cost you gen

[strong crescent]

Revenge is just a rage dump no?

[novel ruin]

90% of the only revenge when it procs

[strong crescent]

^

[left hatch]

so if you have say 2 IT1's and should be Tclapping every gcd, you'll make your cds come up slower by tossing in revenges

vs. burning all your excess rage with IP

[knotty fiber]

what's the prio during avatar? tc > sb > devastate?

I'm a baby warrior so the only corruption I have is vr

[strong crescent]

All the thunders you can get in

[left hatch]

ST its still SB first

[knotty fiber]

hit 120 two days ago

[novel ruin]

Shield Slamnot shield block

[left hatch]

SB>TC>free revenge > Deva

swap TC and SS

SS*

thanks for the catch xan

[knotty fiber]

and just dump into block and ip?

[novel ruin]

No

[left hatch]

Keep block up, dump into IP

big distinction

[novel ruin]

Block up

[knotty fiber]

yeah

[novel ruin]

Use bolster talent

[left hatch]

if you think VoP stacks are fun tho, just wait till you try using Lucid with 2 IT1's

[novel ruin]

3 blocks then Last stand, rinse and repeat

[knotty fiber]

sounds good

[left hatch]

most Lucid uses you get 3 back to back ava's

normal avas you get 2 back to back

its ❤️

[knotty fiber]

it's gonna be a while until I have good corruption tho, unless I get lucky

[novel ruin]

Think of shield block/ignore pain as mitigation, not dps

[strong crescent]

Just save up for exp 3

[novel ruin]

Different priorities

[strong crescent]

I think it drops on July 10

[knotty fiber]

all my echoes are going into cloak upgrades and essences

[novel ruin]

^

[left hatch]

id wait till IT 1 week after that

2 IT1's are bis at every key leve

level*

[novel ruin]

Get 2 IT

[sick sentinel]

you can farm vop

lucid/cns are good to buy

[knotty fiber]

I already got vop

[novel ruin]

Then some TD

Good to go until 24 keys

[left hatch]

yeh, esp if you're new don't look at Versa%

TD or if you want 1 exp 3

for a bit more defence

[novel ruin]

Haste on everything

[left hatch]

and you're set

[novel ruin]

With crit

[knotty fiber]

yeah it seems a lot like bear in that regard

[novel ruin]

Force multiplier enchant for wep

[strong crescent]

I’ve been trying to get all the city haste I can

Crit haste*

[left hatch]

tbh i stopped caring about statline outside of rings

i just slap on my highest ilvl

unless its same or socketed

[novel ruin]

One day Ilgy shield and Nzoth trinket will drop for me

[left hatch]

statlines are for classes that NEED 1 stat like HDH or BM

[novel ruin]

BM goes for 3 stats though

[left hatch]

Just sacrifice your first born for a 475 ML shield from box

starting out its all about crit

and only crit

[sick sentinel]

bm wants crit > haste > vers

right

[left hatch]

until you can maintain your buffs decenlty

[sick sentinel]

ye

[strong crescent]

Hahaha good joke a good drop from chest

[sick sentinel]

crit scaling is ridiculous until you have 100% frenzy uptime

[novel ruin]

Lol Mythic Ilgy shield better for me

[sick sentinel]

then I assume it falls off.

[left hatch]

yeahp

[sick sentinel]

in which case

[novel ruin]

I’m switching to all vers next time it’s up

[left hatch]

then you pool into haste until... idk, it hasn't fallen off for me yet

[sick sentinel]

bleed ticks and cdr are big

so haste #2

then versa cuz it's versa

[novel ruin]

They do some mastery for AOE

[sick sentinel]

unless barbed shot is like unstable affliction and literally gains nothing from haste

[left hatch]

They don't even use their super special bow anymore lmfao

[sick sentinel]

(that's real btw)

[left hatch]

nzoth weapon edges it out

[novel ruin]

For damage, yeah

But not utility

[left hatch]

yeh thats fair

[sick sentinel]

does skitra bow reduce cd of like

exhil and turtle

[novel ruin]

Everything

[sick sentinel]

ye

[left hatch]

yeh but its mega unreliable

[sick sentinel]

for dam i assume it loses a lot of value after 100% frenzy uptmie too

but turtle cdr is uhh

👀

[left hatch]

nah, tbh it was still super valuable until we could choose corruptions

[novel ruin]

I mean having a 15-18sec kick is huge

[sick sentinel]

true

[left hatch]

but a stat% and +10 ilvls edges it out

[sick sentinel]

become as valuable as melee

[grave lily]

rapid reload does turtle cd right?

[novel ruin]

No

[sick sentinel]

aspect of the wild

[sick sentinel]

also cheetah?

all of them really

it owns tho

need one for m+

[left hatch]

rapid reload is just a lot of fun

huge QoL upgrade for their rotation

for M+

[novel ruin]

Good to bring adds onto bosses for em

[sick sentinel]

bm just got it all this expansion

lol

insane crit scaling

[left hatch]

well they did lose their BR

which sucks

[sick sentinel]

still have lust tho

and a heal

[left hatch]

yeh

[sick sentinel]

can literally just take engi

and ur poggin off

[novel ruin]

Hunters are nuts

So much utility

[sick sentinel]

ya

the crit scaling tho

it like triple dips

[left hatch]

lol yeh its nutty

[novel ruin]

I prefer MM over BM though

[sick sentinel]

perma 6k agi

[left hatch]

im liking MM more in the alpha rn from what iv seen

[sick sentinel]

i want survival but with pets

melee bm

[left hatch]

unholy next tier dude

its basically a melee BM

but edgier

their mastery is changing to scale pet damage

and they have a lot of shit that impacts pet only

plus gargoyle back baseline

and in a QoL fix if you play UH recently, Dark Xform gives ghoul 100% energy, so you no longer need to manually toggle off claw before you pop it for best cleave dps

😄

[novel ruin]

Haven’t played DK since Cata

[sick sentinel]

i dont want to be dk

i wan tt to hunter

and choose my pets

[left hatch]

petition wow to let your ghoul be undead animals

just recently undead so they look mostly alive

😄

[sick sentinel]

lol

[left hatch]

actually thatd be a really cool glyph

for hunters as well

to undead-ify their pet

hast some lore grounding as well given how many times youve killed your pet letting it tank for you

its bound to come back a bit Pet Cemetary-ish

[grave lily]

glyph of the broken spirit

[lusty pond]

dumb idea to drop 460 vers/crit + leech boots to equip 465 vers/haste boots?

[left hatch]

nope

more stats and haste>crit

[sick sentinel]

actually

leech kinda owns

[undone sun]

no

stop

not enough to drop for it, it's a fine bonus if it's on equal pieces

[knotty fiber]

it turns out that if I don't spend every other gcd on revenge I actually don't feel rage starved during pulls

[modern brook]

Yeah but then how are you supposed to let the mobs know who's boss?

[left hatch]

mashing revenge is for SL silly

when it does omega damage

and hits twice in 3+ targets

[still pagoda]

^

and also when incoming AM nerf is concerned

[onyx vessel]

Whats on the corruption vendor right now?

[still pagoda]

https://www.wowhead.com/news=316720/corruption-vendor-preserved-contaminants-on-sale-for-july-3rd-july-7th?webhook

[onyx vessel]

Masterful 3 and td3

Yikes

Idk vers3 or surging3

Currently running 5 vers3s 2 It1s

Get more vers3s or a surging

Hmmmmm

[hallow phoenix]

If you have enough base vers then vers3 is better

[onyx vessel]

Whats enough

Im at about 3k

Surging would fill out nicely

Not on wow but i think its 2802

[hallow phoenix]

Surging vitality is about 50% uptime. Say you have x% versatile. Add up all the vers from your gear and see how much extra x% is giving you. Do the same for surging vitality proc (account for uptime). Now see if an extra 12% vers beats that surging vitality number

You can skip step two actually. The x% from your base vers doesn't matter

But will matter for seeing if surging vit is worthwhile

Be sure to include stuff from essences like cns

[onyx vessel]

Well thats tricky

[hallow phoenix]

Simple spreadsheet stuffs

[onyx vessel]

Not being at a computer mostly

[hallow phoenix]

From experience I run five vers3's and have vers on all but one piece of gear

[onyx vessel]

On my phone at work

[hallow phoenix]

And vers3 > surging vit for me

[onyx vessel]

For me i have vers on all but legs

[hallow phoenix]

It's also more consistent

[onyx vessel]

And no alch trinket

[hallow phoenix]

Alch trinket is huge

You should consider it

[onyx vessel]

Eng and bs tho

Guess im dropping blacksmithing

Yeah no im not gonna switch to alch

Realized it requires bs to use the crafted gear and the ones i use for my fury set are corrupted

And eng is just too good

I do have a 445 pvp str trinket with base vers

🤔

[hallow phoenix]

Dropping BS felt bad cause my only good belt was BS

But alch trinket is almost 500 vers

[onyx vessel]

Over eng tho

[hallow phoenix]

It's about 543 vers actually

[onyx vessel]

Can craft some fat vers legs with bs

[hallow phoenix]

I'll never drop engi

Have saved many a run being an engi

[onyx vessel]

Right now i cant drop bs

WTB 3rd profession

[hallow phoenix]

You lose the transmog too if you drop it

[onyx vessel]

I dont even have any blacksmithing gear as prot

Only fury

F

[left hatch]

madjay, as for the surging vs. amp theres a google doc that compares the 'realistic' value of surging 2 vs versa 3

you put in your base versa rating and it does a comparison

i can hunt around for you

[onyx vessel]

My base vers is 2802 with vers amps

I did find that awhile ago but couldnt edit it so i gave up

[left hatch]

you have to save a copy

1s

whats your base amount before amps

[onyx vessel]

No idea

[left hatch]

hmm do amps add to base rating or just %

[onyx vessel]

Rating

[left hatch]

rip, well if you wanna do napkin math to remove your amps or add up your sources

i have the spreadsheet open and ready to edit

[onyx vessel]

I didn't logout in tank gear nor am i home

[left hatch]

rip

[strong forum]

Wait you have 5 amps but only 2.8k

[onyx vessel]

No vers trinket

[strong forum]

Ya neither do I

[onyx vessel]

[strong forum]

I run 2 amps and I'm at 2.5k

[left hatch]

DM'd you a link to an edit-able version

[onyx vessel]

K

Teach me the ways

[strong forum]

Like you should be around 4k vers with that many amps

[left hatch]

maybe he has bad rng

or not full sockets

[onyx vessel]

Outside of cb?

[strong forum]

What's the point of amps then

If you don't have any vers

[onyx vessel]

My legs dont have vers

[hallow phoenix]

is vers the main stat on your gear

or are you running like haste > vers

[onyx vessel]

I have like 6 sockets all with vers as well

[left hatch]

only 6 sockets in this day and age

smfh

jk, i don't blame you i havn't done anything real on wow in like... a month and a half

[onyx vessel]

My 2nd set

I bought like 13 sockets gtfo

[strong forum]

I never grinded sockets

Cba

#cancelvisions

[onyx vessel]

Teach me the ways of vers stacking bb

[left hatch]

i got all but one on my DH before i lost interest in min maxing

around the time they turned off AK

[strong forum]

The secret is, have haste vers in every slot

👍

[onyx vessel]

I dont

[strong forum]

Unluck

[onyx vessel]

[charred ivy]

Best tip for a totally new protection warrior?

[strong forum]

Reading the icv veins guide

[left hatch]

read the icyveins guide

[strong forum]

And checking out #268491842637660160

[onyx vessel]

My shield is crit vers

Smash tclap

[strong forum]

Don't have the boe?

[onyx vessel]

Keep block up

Afk

I aint rich

[charred ivy]

Read all guide hehe. Tanked some 15s etc but want The PRO tips

[strong forum]

Dunno how much it is

Mh...

[onyx vessel]

Stack td get #1 dps

[mellow patio]

Excuse me guys he asked for pro tips let daddy hawg take it from here 🙂

[onyx vessel]

Mock your team

[strong forum]

Kek

[onyx vessel]

Like nome

[mellow patio]

Lead raid, remove dps who are below you on meter

Also

Hello prot chat

[strong forum]

Xeervor, gotta be more specific than that, but if you stay around for a while you'll prolly snack some knowledge here and there

[green laurel]

Hi all, Having issues holding aggro, Mainly when DH/Mages pop cd's any tips?

[hallow phoenix]

tell them to fucking chill

[left hatch]

some of the pitfalls new prots fall into

1. thinking IP is mitigation on par with SB. in any situation you're taking AA's you want SB up as a priority with IP only being a rage dump
2. don't hit deva (or non free revenge) if something else is up
3. Avatar and Demo Shout arn't cd's so much as part of your core rotation, delaying them a lot hurts your rage gen a LOT
4. learn to love Spell reflect, between it, pummel, Shockwave, stormbolt, intimidating shout you have a LOT of st cc in your kit to balance out lazy/bad pugs
5. never. ever. overcap rage
6. don't use hps as a metric for how tanky you are, it can lead to bad play that actively hurts your tankiness, like spamming IP at the cost of SB, taking shit traits like Bloodsport, or bad talents like never surrender to pad your HPS meter.
   6b. instead you gauge tankiness by logging your runs and seeing your % hits blocked
7. do'nt use SB while you have LS up. LS's strongest defensive component is being an extra long SB charge

@charred ivy

[hallow phoenix]

There's not much to holding threat besides using tclap and SS whenever you can

[green laurel]

And thats what im doing 😒

[left hatch]

yeh... if yo'ure having threat issues on pull, its on them for not delaying a GCD or 2

[hallow phoenix]

Generally packs have a priority target that most people focus down first, so try to make sure youre doing the same and throwing your shield slams on it

other than that

its dps job to not pull threat

[green laurel]

when they start pulling 250-300k in 1 second it rips aggro

so getthem to delay the start by a few seconds?

[hallow phoenix]

My DH likes to jump in while I'm still rounding mobs up

and rips threat on shit 15 yards away from me

[green laurel]

We didnt have a misdirect in group either

[hallow phoenix]

I just let him die

100% they just need to chill

[left hatch]

Im not a big boi and only was doing 22/23 range so i wasn't at the range i needed to worry about stun diminishing returns, so i would open on packs with a shockwave (or with nova on my DH) to give an extra GCD or 2 to pick up threat

which helped a lot

[mellow patio]

Wow if that isn’t the Great Wall of text

[green laurel]

Thought about running TD to see if that can some ho counter it, But its ultimately RNG

[mellow patio]

🙂

[hallow phoenix]

Just wait for next week when you have DHs opening with meme beam, eye beam, or a TD proc

splat

[green laurel]

oh know its that affix is it :S

[mellow patio]

If they do that they want to die

Tbh that falls under the “you pull it you tank it” rule

If I see an eye beam while I am pulling I am hands off keyboard and pants on head

[left hatch]

is it friends or pugs?

cause if its a DH friend

just tell him to open with Nova -> eye beam

added benefit of giving him a few skittles to pick up after his eyebeam to reset it faster

and its up for basically every pull

[hallow phoenix]

opening with a stun doesnt seem smart

muh stun DRs

[left hatch]

idk in 22's i never ran into an issue with stun DR's

but if hes going higher than that, yeh its a consideration

and it had an added benefit personally of letting my baer get the rage he needed for his ironfur's

[hallow phoenix]

bear

[left hatch]

which is really the only time baers are squish is on pull

[hallow phoenix]

🐻

❓

[left hatch]

Bären

[hallow phoenix]

sir bearington when

Druids aren't people

[left hatch]

if worgen get tophats why not bears

[still pagoda]

some of the pitfalls new prots fall into

1. thinking IP is mitigation on par with SB. in any situation you're taking AA's you want SB up as a priority with IP only being a rage dump
2. don't hit deva (or non free revenge) if something else is up
3. Avatar and Demo Shout arn't cd's so much as part of your core rotation, delaying them a lot hurts your rage gen a LOT
4. learn to love Spell reflect, between it, pummel, Shockwave, stormbolt, intimidating shout you have a LOT of st cc in your kit to balance out lazy/bad pugs
5. never. ever. overcap rage
6. don't use hps as a metric for how tanky you are, it can lead to bad play that actively hurts your tankiness, like spamming IP at the cost of SB, taking shit traits like Bloodsport, or bad talents like never surrender to pad your HPS meter.
   6b. instead you gauge tankiness by logging your runs and seeing your % hits blocked
7. do'nt use SB while you have LS up. LS's strongest defensive component is being an extra long SB charge
   @left hatch

SOMEONE, PIN THIS ALREADY

i would say that good gauge of tankiness is whether you're constantly dipping on HP or not

if you're literally sitting at constant, take damage smoothly(which implies that you keep SB up and get maximum blocked%) and don't stress the healer while going for as much damage as possible, then you're fine

but yeah

look into logs, don't use IP outside of it being a rage dump, disregard shitty traits and talents and just git gud

[sick sentinel]

just remember that it's okay to pool rage

mitigation is mitigation, and IP is mitigation

[still pagoda]

IP is not really it unless you run giga vers

damage smoothing at best

[arctic python]

Guys which pair of rings is best for me to use in M+? I have quite a few expedient stacks, but i am in doubt of whether i should stick for the higest ILVL?

• ofcourse i would change the enchant

[hallow phoenix]

mechagon rings imo

though highest ilvl rule is all about more stats > better stats

calculate expedient haste% into your ring choices

more stats wins

[distant crystal]

i'd prob just rock mechagons

vers amp on a ring that gives 426 crit tho

gotta love it

[arctic python]

It dropped with that corruption

[distant crystal]

ya just UL

[arctic python]

Do you still rock mechagon rings when you start stacking vers over haste`?

[distant crystal]

any other slot and it's nbd but ring has so much secondary

i'd imagine you'll shoot for big haste/vers rings

n'zoth/ritual binders or w/e

[hallow phoenix]

you definitely dont stick with mechagon rings when doing a vers build

like waat said there's just too much stats on rings

[sick sentinel]

@still pagoda I've been preaching stuff like this for a long time

eventually it ended up people posting my wall of text on dms of whoever asked a question but still nothing would be pinged so I gave up

[still pagoda]

kek

i just don't care really

[sick sentinel]

I used to care about giving advice

at some point...

[hidden plaza]

I liked the advice 😄

[undone sun]

same @sick sentinel

[sick sentinel]

i'd go with

nzoth ring and thornwoven with vers amp 👀

[steep bone]

Hello frens

[undone sun]

New day new vivv pfp

[steep bone]

[still pagoda]

[icy harness]

@sweet summit you on? 😳

[sweet summit]

ya

[icy harness]

wanna do work 19?

that 20 just instafailed, a hunter decided to straight up leave 3 seconds in

💀

[sweet summit]

oof

[icy harness]

could use some big pp tankin or dps

[sweet summit]

ye sure

[steep bone]

did someone say tanking

[still pagoda]

i can heal if you want...

[sweet summit]

come

we need healer

[still pagoda]

/invite Memphy-Kazzak

[steep bone]

@still pagoda

[still pagoda]

mistakes are mistakes. Noted all that stuff for later on

[gentle niche]

!protwarrior

[still pagoda]

we don't have bots akin to stuff on DK discord here @gentle niche

[gentle niche]

thank you

[steep bone]

everything is in pins

[still pagoda]

#268491842637660160

and

[steep bone]

and there ^

[unkempt palm]

May or not be the right place to post or a question that I probably will know the answer to already but, how many of you guys here are intending on staying with prot warrior or warrior as a class in SL? Or are there any other tank specs/classes that you’re strongly considering maining?

[sweet summit]

Warrior til i quit

[still pagoda]

staying on warr for SL for sure

[sweet summit]

Too early to tell if its good or not but i dont care

[still pagoda]

but as an active raid tank, i shall say that you're a role main first and foremost

not of a certain tank spec

[tropic fox]

what is this text showing and is this a weakaura? https://i.imgur.com/kLJA5Q8.png

[still pagoda]

so it is better to learn other specs and sometimes get ready for nerves

[tropic fox]

this P: and M:

[still pagoda]

https://wago.io/B1pg1fRub

[sweet summit]

Effective hp againt physical and magical damage

[dense totem]

After seeing the new BDK notes for SL I might hop between prot and BDK

[tropic fox]

you're the best, thanks!

[sweet summit]

Seems like useless clutter to me idk

[still pagoda]

both brown and pink prots and BrM are my current plan

Seems like useless clutter to me idk

I just stack them on top of my main frame

[dense totem]

Wait wtf

[still pagoda]

@sweet summit

Not really a useless clutter on prog when you need to know exactly how much can you take before taking a certain mechanic

especially when it comes down to magic damage

[sweet summit]

Mate i have no idea how much damage an ability does

[still pagoda]

[sweet summit]

I just pray

[still pagoda]

i was literally calculating all my CD's minutes ahead during ilgy prog

[sweet summit]

I get to tank a farm raid in like 3 weeks

Gonna be interesting

[still pagoda]

cara prog today

first night of it

[sweet summit]

Get more ineffable and solotank it

[somber carbon]

Quick question - at which point should i be satisfied about my Ignore Pain uptime? Currently i run arround 52-55% uptime on a complete m+, is that acceptable or should i focus on getting higher?

[sweet summit]

IP uptime is irrelevant

You use it to spend extra rage

Thats it

[stark idol]

what practical use is knowing how much physical and magical health you have?

[sweet summit]

0 from what i can see

[warm plinth]

Really only relevant for when you're trying to push very high keys to ensure you can survive mechanics that approach 1 shot territory

[steep wraith]

I don't know anyone who uses pre-mitigation values even in high keys. You work out what it'll actually hit for and work with that number.

[warm plinth]

Yes, but there's a WA that live updates that tells you how much effective health you have for both physical and magic damage. So if you know ability x hits for y damage, and the WA says you have more effective HP than that, you know you won't be 1-shot

[woven idol]

@still pagoda whats that raid marker addon on the top left corner of your screen?

[still pagoda]

Exorsus Raid Tools

[woven idol]

thanks

[steep wraith]

Or rather than a weakaura, you just know the ability hits for 500k and look at your hp bar.

Why learn a premitigation value and install a weak aura to show your effective hp than just learn what it actually hits for and use your hp bar. Seems convoluted for no reason. Plenty of resources exist to translate m+ abilities along with their scaling by key lvl and affix, in addition to avoidance etc. into a damage taken number you compare against your hp.

[sharp grove]

Hey, what are the current Nya Heroic Pug tactics?

[novel ruin]

Live

[strong forum]

uuh... kill the beast

[still pagoda]

my application to gally got accepted

[warm plinth]

Proud of you boo

[grave lily]

why force mult instead of quick or vers nav? is it just better

[wooden radish]

@warm plinth hi

[strong forum]

@grave lily Force mult has very high uptime on Str + whatever you highest stat is

It can even double proc and give you Str + 2 instances of additional secondary stats

For example during avatar you can get haste + mastery + Str from force mult
Quick nav needs several stacks to provide more haste than force mult, whereas force mult always grants the same amount of stats so there's little to no variation in power gain

[warm plinth]

@wooden radish Hi cutie

[wooden radish]

This is harassment. I’m writing a twitlonger

[strong forum]

Ghash cancelled

[warm plinth]

D:

[sharp grove]

Don´t worry, Gash.

You can call me whatever you want.

Just ignore my note-taking and screenshot gathering.

[warm plinth]

I'm gonna call you Fluffernutter

[sharp grove]

🤔

[strong forum]

[orchid frigate]

yummy

was a long time since i had one of those

[warm plinth]

Me too and now I freakin want one

[sharp grove]

Ooooo...

... I legit thought Ghash meant something else entirely.

I´m going to call you Berliner Boller, Ghash.

Cuz I want some.

[warm plinth]

idk what that is

[sharp grove]

Where are you from?

[sweet summit]

NA pelb smh

doesnt even know what a berliner bolle is

[sharp grove]

Basically.

[warm plinth]

I'm from 'murica

[sharp grove]

It´s donut dough shaped into a ball, with powdered sugar on top + jam filling.

[sweet summit]

noooo

not the jam

[sharp grove]

Only the Jam.

[sweet summit]

[sharp grove]

🔫

[sweet summit]

vanilla sauce or 👉 🚪

[sharp grove]

https://tenor.com/view/tom-sad-leaving-gif-10661695

[sweet summit]

👋

[sharp grove]

Right, gonna go get my jam fillings.

Bye.

Also, there were some heathens who put nuttella in them.

[sweet summit]

that should be illegal

[sharp grove]

I know, right?!

[mental anchor]

Nutella for life

[junior pebble]

How many ilvls do you figure leech is worth on a belt slot?

assuming same stats

[warm plinth]

0 ilevels

[sharp grove]

Give leech a chance. D:

[orchid frigate]

top key pushers seems dead set on leech

[strong forum]

you only drop ilvl for leech if youre stacking running full vers corruptions and its have/vers piece

[steep bone]

what is leech

[strong forum]

and youre pushing 26+

outside of full vers corruption + gear, you dont drop anything for it.

[storm elk]

When does it start becoming worth it to stack vers over haste? 20+?

[strong forum]

25

at best

[still pagoda]

what is leech [2]

[tame garden]

free healing

[storm elk]

should i be using expedient then at lower levels or just TD for htat mad AoE DPS?

[strong forum]

TD all the way

[storm elk]

thats what i love to hear

[still pagoda]

When does it start becoming worth it to stack vers over haste? 20+?
@storm elk

+25.

You can start doing hybrid TD-vers build like TD3+2xVers3+2xIT1 in +22-24 range

depends mostly on comfortability

[strong forum]

hey thats my corruptions

are you stalking me

[storm elk]

Honestly im barely doing 15s. Just you know you get the know it all guildies who say i should be doing one thing

[still pagoda]

are you stalking me

Nah, just using the same

since it is the best i can make

[strong forum]

know it all guilides are the best

[storm elk]

They're the greatest.

[strong forum]

especially if theyre non-tanks that dont know the actual value of dps

[still pagoda]

just stack TD until you get into mid 20's

[storm elk]

yeah? Dont even get IT?

Music to my ears.

[still pagoda]

along the way

2xIT1 is good

but not required

[strong forum]

IT is a good filler, but not necessary

[warm plinth]

You're a good filler

[strong forum]

😳

[still pagoda]

😳

[blissful ether]

Hey so i have a question. I tried both pally and warrior as tank and i had the feeling Pally had so much better defences. i got melted as warrior and as pally its easy to stay up. I would much rather play warrior But how hard is it to actually get decent with it?

[steep bone]

you got melted because:
You didn't use shield block or any defensive
You were eating magical damage like a sponge without any interrupts on them

But hard to say really if you don't have logs/vod or something more

[eternal plank]

Warriors are one of the best tanks in my opinion

You have many defensives to use

[blissful ether]

Yeah honestly just ran 1 atal M0 and got fucked

[steep bone]

don't expose your back to mobs

use demo shout on packs, try to approach them with precasting avatar, follow with shield block, spend exceptional rage on IP

and what ilvl you gone to that m0 with

[blissful ether]

Like do you need to use a defensive cooldown alot? im running +10 with pally without barely having to use them.

i think i was around 410

[steep bone]

Then it's deffo your gameplay

[blissful ether]

Yeah for sure

its 100% me. i've seen beast prot warriors

[steep bone]

I mean you have to use SB, IP to spend rage on, Last Stand when out of SB charges

[blissful ether]

does ignore pain has to have a 100% uptime?

so last stand when you're basically running out of active mitigation?>

[steep bone]

No, you only use it to spend rage to prevent overcapping or on stuff that does pure magical damage like last boss in workshop or zul

[still pagoda]

Hey so i have a question. I tried both pally and warrior as tank and i had the feeling Pally had so much better defences. i got melted as warrior and as pally its easy to stay up. I would much rather play warrior But how hard is it to actually get decent with it?
@blissful ether

Pally indeed has many safety nets and flat DR with 100% uptime.

Warr is not forgiving. You can check #268491842637660160 for icy veins guide and pins in this channel for in-depth on corruptions and essences

[steep bone]

but there are better warriors to correct me tho

[blissful ether]

alright lads. i'll give it another go!

[steep bone]

and paladin is imba on low keys imo

[still pagoda]

Paladin is a good beginner tank spec

[blissful ether]

Yeah it helped me understand tank role and dungeons alot more. its super forgiving

But i wanna main warrior to have fury as a off spec

[steep bone]

Play it

ask questions

[blissful ether]

Alrighty thankyou! really appriciate it!

[steep bone]

And dont be afraid to use cooldowns 😛

they've short cd anyway

[blissful ether]

Yeah i'm always like " i better save them might need them later" instead of using them when i actually could need them

Should change that mind set

[junior pebble]

Last stand's only use is to proc bigger beams

[still pagoda]

cycling CD's is key to dish out maximum out of brown prot in higher keys

Last stand's only use is to proc bigger beams

[cobalt cloud]

i was so happy to find out that warriors can spell reflect split personality in visions

that and reflecting vexiona's shattered resolve

[full monolith]

Dont forget you can spell reflect junkyard last boss‘ gauntlet - like reflect and dont have to dodge

[cobalt cloud]

same with the consume spell cast by the slime adds

[full monolith]

Ye thats insane dps

[strange night]

@full monolith

Dont forget you can spell reflect junkyard last boss‘ gauntlet - like reflect and dont have to dodge
Not sure i get what gauntlet ability is 😆 what are you refering to ?

[shadow bay]

just 30 tanked nzoth

hilarious shit

wondering if blizz is gonna nerf sotw to 5 ppl

[warm plinth]

Not sure i get what gauntlet ability is what are you refering to ?
@strange night The robots on the top ramp with the circles around them (not the top platform but the ramp going up to it), you can spell reflect and run through them.

[orchid frigate]

Nice

[strange night]

Allright, never tried that, seems hilarious

thank's !

i think we can leap through a good part of it too

[orchid frigate]

Can you use it in the other ground effects?

[warm plinth]

No, doesn't work for the spinny beams or the vents

[orchid frigate]

Kk

[steep bone]

Yeah i'm always like " i better save them might need them later" instead of using them when i actually could need them
@blissful ether Think about it in that way "I need them every pull"

[warm plinth]

But you can jump over the beams with practice

[orchid frigate]

Yeah

[sweet summit]

spell reflect works on the spinny beams and bots

[orchid frigate]

I prefer saving leap

[warm plinth]

We did a JY the other day and half my group kept getting ported down with nothing near us lul

Fun game

[orchid frigate]

But sometimes it feels like I get stunned for no reason anyway

[strange night]

True !

[warm plinth]

But yeah I always just leap across the first part and bob and wave the 2nd part since it's easy enough anyway but not like you need SR for anything else in that fight so

weave*

[steep bone]

you can enter robot like split second before pylon is finished and let healer finish it, dunno how that works on high keys but on lower-ish it saves lots of time of running down

[modern brook]

The robots dont hurt right?

[warm plinth]

The ones that port you don't hurt. The vents that stun you do

We usually have our tank finish but that's because he's a VDH and can get back down giga fast

[modern brook]

I'm just asking cause I never know which one kills me and dont need to die walking back to the boss

So walk into the ones on the ramp?

[warm plinth]

Any of the bots, not necessarily the ramp ones

The ones that patrol the top work too

[solar rover]

was trying to search the history but only found some essence questions about m+

should i be running vop , lucid or crucible for mythic raiding

[warm plinth]

I believe Crucible is still the play for raids

[modern brook]

Crucible or vop

[still pagoda]

i use crucible

because it is free 5k DPS

[solar rover]

tyty

[bronze sable]

Is ineffable truth worth stacking? I have 2 rings with the 30 corruption rank of it and wondering if i should cleanse one of them

or is it even useful for prot i know its pretty good for arms

[sweet summit]

no, you want 1-2 rank 1

[steep bone]

It's better to have 2x rank1 IT thank one rank2

[bronze sable]

kk so cleanse

[steep bone]

I mean I'd keep that one IT2 until it comes back from vendor

if you have budget for having extra 6 corruption

[bronze sable]

Yeah I'm gonna keep one of them

[storm elk]

Is a 480 piece of azerite gear always better than a 450? Or am i still beholden to getting the right traits?

[sweet summit]

ilvl owns

[storm elk]

Beautiful

[steep bone]

DC worths 15ilvl aye?

[still pagoda]

yeah

but only first

[steep bone]

of course

[still pagoda]

i wonder how our first vex re-clear will go

[steep bone]

just kill it 4Head

[still pagoda]

this is literally last boss left before going on cara prog

[mental scarab]

so howda fuck im a gonna survive ah 168k tik from rezan bleed on a 20 key O_O

[still pagoda]

cooldowns

[steep bone]

cds, ask healer for help

[still pagoda]

make CD rotation clear for your healer

[mental scarab]

playing with friends our first 20key as grp

did 20keys last season and dont remember it hurt s much xD

[still pagoda]

who's your healer?

[mental scarab]

pala 😄

[still pagoda]

just ask for sac

rotate sac > SW > whatever you have

[steep bone]

sac, wings, last stand, heal pot, healstone, rally cry

so much things to keep yourself alive

[mental scarab]

but like the dmg is retarded lul we ddint know it hurted so much <_<

fun dho

[warm plinth]

There's no other damage on that fight. Healer should just be pumping into you when Serrated Teeth is up

[mental scarab]

true

[warm plinth]

You have BoP too in a pinch

[mental scarab]

aye

[novel ruin]

@mental scarab Start with Shield Wall, then Sac, then Last Stand. Demo Should be available for nearly all of them. If you dont have anything, tell your team to allow pursuit to happen for a few seconds longer so you can get CDs back up

[sullen valve]

@warm plinth mwahi didn't answer my last question :(

[warm plinth]

Which question was that

[knotty fiber]

what did you do to your text

[sullen valve]

Man I think he hates me

I used italics to show urgency

[knotty fiber]

:wry:

why does warrior discord hate external emojis

rude

[sullen valve]

It's because mwahi is a butt

[still pagoda]

It draws near

[knotty fiber]

good luck

[steep bone]

just remember to keep kalm and clap often @still pagoda

[ionic fern]

You stack haste @sullen valve

👍

[sweet summit]

Cross server emotes when

[ionic fern]

Never.

[sweet summit]

[distant crystal]

man

[ionic fern]

™️

[distant crystal]

why have i been doing visions as fury all this time

prot is so much freer

[ionic fern]

Yes it is.

[still pagoda]

Cross server emotes when [2]

first pull incoming

[sick sentinel]

Good luck @still pagoda

[dense totem]

what % of haste should i get to before vers stacking?

[chilly brook]

There isn't a %

@dense totem what content are you doing

[still pagoda]

@dense totem you should not go for vers if you are not doing +23 keys and above

[dense totem]

Heroic//mythic raiding, keys above 20

oh 23?

welp guess more haste then

[still pagoda]

moar haste and TD then

[chilly brook]

Keep stacking haste until you need the increase in EHP

[still pagoda]

in raid you can go zero vers policy with ease

and say fuck you to your GM/co-tank if they don't understand that vers is meh

[chilly brook]

Aka until you're one shot or until you hit a point where your mistakes that you struggle correcting get you fucked

[still pagoda]

^

[dense totem]

alright ty

[chilly brook]

So I got an offer for a 12/12 guild

But they want me playing BrM pally or blood

[dense totem]

Mmmm

BrM

[chilly brook]

I mean I already did 9/12 as BrM

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I just want to play Vengeance but they dont want to double stack tanks

[still pagoda]

But they want me playing BrM pally or blood
@chilly brook

That's fine for this tier tbh

like

[mellow patio]

Only nerds care about what class a tank plays don’t @ me

[stiff oracle]

@mellow patio

[limpid pawn]

brew mitigation is amazing but...

none of the fights really check mitigation like that lol

and actually warrior with AUG major prob requires less healing than brew IMO

[chilly brook]

@still pagoda they want one of those 3 for next xpac too

Tbh I feel like BrM is extremely overrated this tier

[sweet summit]

Or, every tank thats not brm is underrated

[novel ruin]

Isn’t Brews highlight during progression since their damage intake is smooth?

[sweet summit]

Yeah

[chilly brook]

Yes but that's also overvalued imo

[limpid pawn]

yes i agree

they require more healing than any other tank

[sweet summit]

Statue is also very epic

[limpid pawn]

statue is prob the main reason

[still pagoda]

@still pagoda they want one of those 3 for next xpac too
@chilly brook

I'm going warr and BrM/pala/BDK for next expac myself

[limpid pawn]

for big add fights

[novel ruin]

At this point progression is over and if people are still progressing they are more likely way overgeared to the point classes don’t matter

[sweet summit]

Yeah

[still pagoda]

we've just started cara prog

prot warr and BDK

[chilly brook]

For example if you're a prot warrior you're just as smooth if not easier to heal if you actually utilize your CDs and mitigation properly in prog @novel ruin

[still pagoda]

going good

[limpid pawn]

I did 11/12 as a prot war

and like half and half prot war/brew on nzoth

[novel ruin]

I don’t raid tank so my knowledge of it is abysmal

[limpid pawn]

have not killed nzoth, have my doubts, have my 3 mil gold saved up for CE/mount just incase

[still pagoda]

more to say, you can abuse few mechanics in mythic as a prot warrior @chilly brook

[sweet summit]

Reflect owns

[inland silo]

imo its just phys damage debuff that makes monk tank required. unless you're just griefing and have a windwalker

[still pagoda]

i literally took 3 stacks in a row rn

[novel ruin]

But people have so many sockets and 475 loot from weekly chests plus corruption that Mythic isn’t like it was 2 months ago

[inland silo]

other than that, what tanks you have doesnt matter

[chilly brook]

I cotanked with a BrM in prog quite a few times as prot this expansion and everytime I didn't get chunked as hard and didn't require as much healing @novel ruin

[sweet summit]

We have a WW :(

[novel ruin]

@chilly brook interesting. Doesn’t BRM technically take more damage, it’s just smoother?

[chilly brook]

Yes

[sweet summit]

Correct

[chilly brook]

But it's hard to not be smooth as a prot warrior lmao

You get tickled 90% of the time

Except for like the 1 magic tank buster that doesnt put you in danger at all

[novel ruin]

Same way in M+ too. Either you get tickled or take big damage

[chilly brook]

And hits monk just as hard if not harder

Cuz magic stagger is a joke

I've also done like half the raid as vengeance and I honestly feel so much more tanky tbh

[mellow patio]

i literally took 3 stacks in a row rn
@still pagoda wait why are you taking stacks and not reflecting it

[still pagoda]

i mean by reflecting

reflect, stack, reflect

[mellow patio]

[still pagoda]

IT just doesn't proc

[novel ruin]

Vengeance is prob the most self-sufficient tank

Take less damage than blood and the damage you do take, you just heal it

[sullen valve]

@ionic fern if i hit exalted with bloodsail buc can i get cross server emotes uwu

[ionic fern]

@sullen valve no.

[sullen valve]

But

what if i hit giga with the mwahi rep

[strong forum]

Yarr

[obtuse yoke]

@limpid pawn assuming you're still progging on nzoth then i feel like you'll kill it

tier isnt done til november

[still pagoda]

@sweet summit we got him to P3