oh minions of zul
#protection
chilly brook
MD is even better because it's got more uses throughout the dungeon
sweet summit
trying to argue that being a belf does not increase the amount of mobs you can pull
still pagoda
technically belf racial is just a good fuckup fix
chilly brook
I know
I'm just saying if you truly needed aoe purges that often MD is better than blood elf anyways
sick sentinel
I guess i'm going with belf then π
But does be female prot not look eh "small"?
chilly brook
@sick sentinel be a panda and thank me later
primal dune
You can have belf on most classes, not one in particular
still pagoda
^
chilly brook
Panda baby
sick sentinel
@sick sentinel be a panda and thank me later
@chilly brook Fuck don't throw another race in aha, i admit it looks neat
civic rover
just play what you think looks best
still pagoda
dunno
been playing goatgirls for all eternity before xferring to horde
now playing only belfs
primal dune
You can literally change your race
still pagoda
With twin tails
civic rover
because ultimately if you don't like how your character looks you won't have fun
chilly brook
AdMike you're honestly like that kid who lost a bet on a sports team but couldn't stop talking about why that sports team should have won at this point
civic rover
lol
still pagoda
You can literally change your race
understand that every race change costs money
primal dune
Just because you hold different opinion to me doesnβt make you right
still pagoda
that's a big NO
civic rover
no one is saying you're wrong, you're just arguing about something really dumb
primal dune
Playing this game also costs money
sick sentinel
So feel like most votes are going for be female? π
chilly brook
But is it run defining? No
primal dune
But shadowmeld is run defining
chilly brook
Because any case where it would be "required" its already been covered by an interrupt, some sort of CC to stop a cast, or by the DH in the group
civic rover
shadowmeld is run defining if everybody has it
still pagoda
but who plays alli anyway
civic rover
why are you changing the topic
still pagoda
XD
chilly brook
But literally no one plays alliance unless its MDI
sharp night
biggest use for it imo is the 3 mobs in the middle of 2nd boss tos room
cause they start with the buff
and waiting 20+ seconds for a dh to dispel them one by one is terrible
primal dune
My topic is literally racials are required for high keys
Both nelf and belf are my arguments
civic rover
no theyre not
warm plinth
Why do you say that
chilly brook
No your topic was Blood Elf racial
warm plinth
That might have been true in Legion but it really isn't in BFA
warm plinth
Go watch any of the high key videos and show me the gamebreaking moment that a racial participated in
still pagoda
because most time giga keys go with druid and hunter/rogue/mage
where everyone has ways to avoid pursuits and other nasty stuff
primal dune
Now you have 2 ways
warm plinth
Yeah like Rezan is just...which two people can avoid pursuit; okay those two people go out
primal dune
No randomly between 2 not in melee range
primal dune
If only 1 is outside melee then anyone randomly
still pagoda
there's not so many places where mass purge is needed
especially if people play perfectly
warm plinth
Even in the situations where it's "needed", you almost definitely have an alternative to it
sick sentinel
Jesus i really started a debate haha! The questions was just about race π
primal dune
Show me a player who plays perfectly all the time
chilly brook
People doing high keys successfully?
warm plinth
I mean, purging something doesn't require perfect play
You target the mob, you press purge/dispel magic/consume magic/whatever
And it's done
And a lot of purges don't even have a CD
warm plinth
Right I was counting consume and spirit shock as the exceptions
warm plinth
Dispel Magic, Purge, Spellsteal all don't have a CD
chilly brook
Big brain
sharp night
we need it in siege because we suck at removing the shield when we miss kick π
and then we all get blasted
chilly brook
Just bring a DH 
warm plinth
And if you're giving up a GCD to reduce a mob's damage by 30%, it's worth the GCD on a higher key. And in the giga high keys, they have a fixed comp anyway that has at least two dispels, one of which has no CD (spellsteal)
sharp night
we have 2 + a hunter
warm plinth
Idk I don't feel like we miss the shield that often
sharp night
and purging it before it explodes
yeah it happens like once every 10 runs maybe
or less
warm plinth
But yeah like...blood elf racial in that case even would just be a crutch
Not an actual requirement
chilly brook
And it's not like a DH using a purge on the gcd is even a dps loss for them since it's free fury
sharp night
realistically KR is the only place where belf racial is way ahead of everything else
nothing else really comes close to it
even MD can only hit 5 targets
and there's like 8 or something
undone sun
interns, as we know that's who worked on bfa
primal dune
IP was on GCD
chilly brook
It's not even a meaningful choice imo
wooden geyser
look at this guy, they did 21 interrupts in the whole dungeon and you here argue which racial is SLIGHTLY better
chilly brook
You're gonna want to use your GCDs to prevent damage as much as possible
Then lotp tbh
sonic saddle
torment vs scale... same ilvl
chilly brook
I'm assuming you're going for dps?
Cuz if so just sim
If you're wanting a more well rounded or something that also helps survival go scale
sonic saddle
aye simming shows torment
still pagoda
torment vs scale... same ilvl
Scale anyway
it's a good well rounded trinket
oh
fuck
Dire Maul
time to suffer 
supple vortex
Are 465 mechagon rings better than 2 475 haste vers?
supple vortex
Ok sweet
still pagoda
though which mechagon rings
since the only worthwhile combo is is 3 spells haste one
spice musk
as tank in m+ just stacking twilight rank 1 should be good right? when is that purchasable again?
sweet summit
twilight dev is linear in damage
mental scarab
Get that stinky Classic in the other channel π€©π€©π€©π€©
exotic spoke
Maybe hes leveling
vestal pond
so which of these trinkets should i use for mythic+: 475 dragon scale, 465 vial, 465 butcherblock, 465 vita, 470 psychic shell... i know i need the peerless trinket but this is just for OS tanking when we need a tank and dont want to switch from BS or ENG for an OS
exotic spoke
Psychic shell and dragon scale imo. Until you get a 475 vita
sweet summit
vita+scale
replace scale with LPS if you need a defensive trinkets
still pagoda
Maybe hes leveling
Exactly
exotic spoke
assuming youre doing high enough keys. Otherwise Id use butcher and sragonscale
vestal pond
just really doing 15s rn tanking
still pagoda
vita is much-much stronger compared to any other trinket
sweet summit
vita is very large
still pagoda
assuming youre doing high enough keys. Otherwise Id use butcher and sragonscale
@exotic spoke
Ilvl over all rule doesn't apply to trinkets
and rings
sweet summit
riki knows, riki is smart
vestal pond
so i should go just dragonscale and vita or dragonscale and shell
still pagoda
vita and shell or vita and scale*
undone sun
it's more lenient on rings, but it still applies
vestal pond
okay thanks yall
exotic spoke
@still pagoda Im not saying ilvl
Im saying high enough keys that you need defensive you sue lps
Otherwise Id use butchers block and scale
depending on group comp
sweet summit
im curious, why not vita?
still pagoda
which is just...
lets be honest
vita >>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything else
just mathematically
exotic spoke
Depends on what you want. If you're doing low enough keys it doesnt matter survivability wise.
Which is why I said butchers block.
vestal pond
ill prob just stick with vita and scale i was just looking at what the top key pushers were suging
exotic spoke
regarding vita over scale /shrug
I havent looked at it in forever. I knew vita was better at equal ilvl - didnt know it was at lower
I'd still recommend butchers block as the second trinket for sub 20 keys personally
still pagoda
Depends on what you want. If you're doing low enough keys it doesnt matter survivability wise.
Which is why i say vita
it is the best trinket both offensively and defensively
sweet summit
yeah, mwahi did a cool spreadsheet thing that karton linked. shows average haste between vita-scale-rezan at 460-475
vita is just so much stats
exotic spoke
Saying its flat out the best trinket offensively is dangerous.
Oh I know it is so much in stats.
I'd still recommend block over scale or LPS for mid range keys
And I admitted that I wasn't aware of the math since I hadnt checked it in literally months
wooden geyser
I see a lot of warriors running C&S as major, why do they do that and when should i switch vision for C&S. My guess is they use it for kiting purposes
exotic spoke
Theres a pinned message about that from a bit ago
sweet summit
the major gives double vers when you CC something, and the TC root procs that. its mostly for the extra vers
and yeah, 
still pagoda
last time i simmed 460 vita vs 475 goreblock, there was no difference
exotic spoke
Thats for your character and you're still missing the point that Im recommending vita and lps for high keys and vita / gore for low
exotic spoke
I admitted I switched
still pagoda
i use vita+scale and vita+goreblock myself
exotic spoke
I admitted I hadnt seen the math
Did you miss that?
Saying Vita instead of scale
arctic charm
Has anyone looked into using clockwork heart shoulders instead of skitra?
sweet summit
its generally better for damage
but thats a sim question
people stacking vers prefer skitra shoulders for HoD consistency and IV
also OP
sacred roost
Anything I can improve on, outside of corruptions I'm still waiting on
plan to stack versa
sweet summit
not taking never surrender
not stacking DC π
higher ilvl shield
nzoth trinket instead of jes
more sockets
sacred roost
I don't have nzoth trinket, never surrender was recommneded to me, I don't have access to a higher ilvl shield (unless someone puts the BoE one up.
and I like DC. π
still pagoda
who even takes never surrender?
sweet summit
never surrender is never recommended here
there are some gray areas like last two bosses ML where im actually not sure if its worth or not over bolster
sweet summit
but for normal situations, you always take bolster
if you plan on stacking vers, i highly recommend HoD over extra DC traits
also get CnS
with a 460 shield, iron fortress helps a lot defensively. due to the added block value, and HoD>extra DC on your head π€·ββοΈ
upper violet
True
sweet summit
but thats just my 50 cent : )
sacred roost
I use ignore pain alot more then last stand though
sweet summit
π€¦
still pagoda
easy heritage armor
undone sun
sweet summit
yes you do, but thats not why you take bolster
you take bolster to help with shield block downtime
still pagoda
bolster turns LS into a longer shield block
sacred roost
CnS is what, so your saying that I should have 1 HoD, 1 DC, and 1 CnS?
sweet summit
conflict and strife, essence
sacred roost
replacing what?
sweet summit
id take 3x BoM, 1x DC, 1x HoD and 1x IF
warden, as you dont need the resistance
if you do need the resistance, replace aegis
sacred roost
Well, I can get 1 IF, now, but HoD is useless to me till versa 3 comes back
sweet summit
thats fair
knotty fiber
is warr one of those classes that feels really squishy at low ilvl? I can chain pull in low keys no problem but if I go into n or h nya I feel like I'm getting trucked
sweet summit
if your shield is low ilvl compared to the content you are doing, yeah
knotty fiber
ah, it's like 435
so pretty low
I wanted to buy one of the boe shields but I didn't wanna drop 200k on a 460
sweet summit
you can get a 465 for free by doing a 15 dungeon 
knotty fiber
I'm gonna spam 15+s as soon as I can get invited
unfortunately my 310 ring and 370 wep are holding me back
sweet summit
calm phoenix
@knotty fiber just do timewalking to at least get 410s.
knotty fiber
I've been doing low keys and nya, I'll do some timewalking soon. I do have that quest to get 5 done
wooden geyser
M0 is prety easy and u get 430 ilvl gear
strong forum
exactly
sweet summit
Cursed
strong forum
timed it π€·ββοΈ
autumn pendant
thats mega crused
foggy bolt
Anyone have a good WA for tracking shield block, Ignore Pain, last stand and shield wall?
strong forum
theres a couple in #268491842637660160
foggy bolt
Thanks
still pagoda
i didn't play pala for 6 years before making this one
guess it's gonna be a good ride to 120
cloud wind
should i use my 475 haste verse gloves with versa proc for visions, or my 460 crit haste with echoing void rank 1
strong forum
for visions
uuuh...
technically the EV is more dmg
but its so irrelevant so just go with whatever you like more now
cloud wind
havent done a full clear yet so no idea
rank 7 cape guna go for rank 15 now and to get some echoes for TD 3
distant crystal
indeed
one day i'll get a 475 to change my icon to
but first i'd have to stop opening cache as prot praying for a shield
exotic spoke
Want some 465s? I have one with coastal surging
distant crystal
i got a 465 on my first KR run
was only there to help a UDK get one
and i traded him one in a later run :p
exotic spoke
Lol
distant crystal
doh, this was supposed to be dm lol
oblique ruin
is surging vitality worth it to run or should i just wait for the pure vers % corruption in 2 weeks?
novel ruin
@oblique ruin It is better with more vers amps, there is a calculator somewhere were you can do the math yourself
distant crystal
if you're going full defensive 1 surging vit will prob be in your budget at the end
like 8 amps + 1 t2 or t3 surging
cloud wind
did they hotfix rank 9+ visions to be 2 pages, or is it still 4, i swear i read somthing about a catchup for cape with pages
distant crystal
nothing is more than 4 pages
was the change
you can always get a lvl with 1 vessel
full clearing
cloud wind
ah kk
not sure if i can do a full clear yet need to watch a vid to see what i can skip
novel ruin
@distant crystal You will prob want 7/8 Vers Amps and 2 IT. Prob no room for a surging
oblique ruin
@novel ruin thank you dude
novel ruin
@oblique ruin Also realize that vers isnβt really needed until 24/25 M+ keys.
oblique ruin
been told to just run vers and inef for ~18-20
knotty fiber
What kind of shield block uptime should I be looking for at lower gear? Like ye, I get that you're supposed to have it up as much as possible, but what's the usual overall uptime % during the fight?
novel ruin
@oblique ruin You could if you want to. Isnβt needed at those key levels though. Better to go Ineffeable rank 1 X 2 and TD /Expedient Amps. The damage at those levels isnβt high enough for vers to overtake the benefits haste and crit gives
oblique ruin
@novel ruin thank u
knotty fiber
is ie good for warr because it reduces the time on sb/revenge/avatar?
sweet summit
not revenge, but it interacts with AM so thats poggers
still pagoda
and also allows for some SR shenanigans
and sometimes 3rd avatar if it procs during lucid window
arctic python
Should i buy devestation rank 3 ? I have full expedient and i am currentty running keys around 18-20. Is it worth the 15k or should i just upgrade my cloak (72 resistance atm)
arctic python
Is it that much better?
still pagoda
full haste amps are fun and fine, but TD is plain better for prot
arctic python
ty
spare crescent
what race best for alliance?
high m+ hord player change panada its double food buff?
still pagoda
they change for double food buff
but you can play whatever you want
it doesn't really matter
despite DID and normal dwarves having really strong utility from their bleed removal
spare crescent
its true
still pagoda
there're some really strong utility racials like Arcane Torrent, Fireblood and Stoneform
but they're nowhere defining
and act more as a minor boost
still pagoda
i play female blood elves just for the sake of aesthetics and good look of transmog
civic rover
tauren gang
just moved back to horde and back to my old guild, feels good to be a bull
until i have to use the gnome toy to play tol dagor and WM
main shoal
Hey should i get td 3? i was running vers corruptions cuz of pvp
and i have 1 td 2
mostly doing 15s now yay
sweet summit
rock that TD, mate
mental anchor
Kul tiran haymaker people off the cliff is life
sick sentinel
does spell reflect damage scale up with the amount versa % you have ?or is the reflect damage just a flat amount
sweet summit
flat
sick sentinel
cheers
wet fable
@civic rover haha, agree so much. Using noggenfogger for small skeleton.
sick sentinel
i use that aswell i heard the gnome pitate toy has + points for some mechanics can anyone tell me what they are?
dont really know where u benefit from it and how
sweet summit
less camera angle fuckeries
civic rover
yeah in dungeons like td and waycrest it's helpful
also in workshop the door you have to go through next to second obelisk
if you're not a small race and avatar is active you'll be too fat to get in
cloud wind
how long do the new corruptions last on mother, kind of wana have a good idea of how long i have left to get my echoes might actually be able to grab it, especially if it lasts till reset day when i can open chests
TD rank3 went on 4th EU
obtuse yoke
lasts until next reset
it will change at the same time the m+ weekly cache becomes available to click
warm plinth
The resets happen at the same time the minor assaults reset. You can see how long you have left by going to the world map and hovering over the eye icon on the minor assault.
mental anchor
if you're not a small race and avatar is active you'll be too fat to get in
@civic rover shit Iβm kul tiran Iβm always too fat to get in
hidden plaza
so a melee dps got melee'd by sister malady in wcm about 6 secs into fight when fighting solena did I do something wrong as tank?
civic rover
it can be hard to keep aggro on all three
modern brook
malady shouldnt auto attack that early on unless kicked im p sure
so while yeah u probably lsot aggro
it sounds like he was targeting the wrong one
hidden plaza
will check logs think range might have kicked a cast
modern brook
nothing wrong with kicking off targets for the record
sick sentinel
Avatar can be Rng vop'd
hidden plaza
So a DH going ham early with beam and fel barrage
sick sentinel
What if you are too fat and try to intercept someone already through the junk door
modern brook
what are you talking aboutyogi?
sick sentinel
Does game not let you
@civic rover shit Iβm kul tiran Iβm always too fat to get in
@mental anchor
Gdit
mental anchor
@sick sentinel I can leap or intercept through doorways yes
warm plinth
Gotta pad for days man
tame garden
glacial echo
What is a better weapon enchant for prot warrior Gale-force striking, or quick navigation?
undone sun
if it's only those two, quick
glacial echo
what would be a better one, other than those 2
undone sun
force multi is a popular pick
sweet echo
sick sentinel
underrated cuz it sucks
limpid pawn
onyx vessel
main vault
sick sentinel
night nexii
sick sentinel
true
mellow patio
Red team rules
shadow bay
chu think about wrathion's weapon and its' corruption?
i have it 460, and hook from freehold 465
what shud i chuuz
mellow patio
Take ilvl on weps
Unles you have no other corruption
Wrathion corruption is a worse TD1
royal rune
anyone else had demo warlocks do bad dps
hallow phoenix
I've had every class and spec do bad DPS and amazing DPS
Except sub rogue. Never seen a sub rogue
hallow phoenix
Sounds like a player problem
Last I checked demo lock gets mongo haste and shock bots scale off that, so that alone shouldve let him pump
royal rune
i pipped him with 85k overall
never see n that before
what to watch out for with KR on 21 tyr?
just big boss dmg ey
grave lily
can safeguard drains, thats about it
grave lily
the talent, still probably not worth running over crackling
royal rune
yeah i wouldnt think so
onyx vessel
Higher keys its good to save your team from 1shots
civic rover
coffin guy
royal rune
ah k
distant crystal
you can safeguard ppl that get bleeds
royal rune
whats the WA that puts target of the caster on the name plate
onyx vessel
You can safeguard alot of huge dmg intake on dpsers/healers
sick sentinel
whats the WA that puts target of the caster on the name plate
but
that's also a native function of things like Plater
royal rune
im just running elvui
sick sentinel
i'll check
raven knoll
is the alchemist trinket completly bis? like combined with the nzoth one for m+ tanking?
sick sentinel
don't think you can
install plater
@raven knoll no
nzoth trinket owns though
ppl often run vita/nzoth
raven knoll
can you explain why nerftank and naowh are both running it?
left hatch
verse + extra healing on pots
left hatch
its by no means 'bis' though for like 99.9% of content
left hatch
and even in the content their doing youd have to talk to them if its truly bis
they're*
because at that level things are way less objective
for the vast majority of keys Vita will likely serve you better
raven knoll
the thing is they would have probably access too like every trinket they want if they really need it
so the question is why they go with a profession trinket
left hatch
because the strats they're doing values it
sick sentinel
because it gives vers
and they run like 800 vers amps
that's pretty much literally it
left hatch
doesn't necessarily mean its the be all end all best option
sick sentinel
it gives a LOT of vers.
the objective is to smooth damage intake
that trinket will do it better than any other trinket
left hatch
its just what they feel is the best option for the current shit they deal with in keys
and yah like Pastures says its the best item to mitigate unavoidable/unblockable damage
which the higher you go the bigger deal it becomes
grave lily
what else would you run? maybe urchin
novel ruin
Yeah, best trinket with vers amps to smooth out damage.
novel ruin
Gives like 6ish% vers with amps
sick sentinel
i would never run urchin
left hatch
like low 20's unavoidable damage is still relatively trivial so a haste trinket will do more for you point for point
than a versa trinket
grave lily
i guess nzoth / vita for most people running TDs and doing sub 30s
sick sentinel
i don't weight pure hps higher than damage intake reduction
left hatch
^ hps is a bad metric to look at as a prot war
novel ruin
Top 4 I would run are Vita, Nzoth, Scale and Alch stone.
left hatch
^^
novel ruin
And if you donβt have access to those, farm Rezans
left hatch
or Butchers block ain't bad either, esp on Necrotic weeks
novel ruin
True but Necrotic bleh
left hatch
you can reset stacks in aoe melee with some good rng and it (:
and it pumps
so for no sweat keys its a lot of fun
novel ruin
I hate Tyran Necrotic
sick sentinel
tyran is dogshit 24/7
novel ruin
At least for the 23/24s Iβm doing
left hatch
easier to time keys, but harder to push with it ):
novel ruin
Tyran is actually easier for keys less than 20
left hatch
yeh
novel ruin
Well, roughly 20
novel ruin
And itβs not that Tyran is harder than Fort in the damage taken sense
left hatch
really depends how coordinated your group is tbh... if you can time a key easily tyran just makes it that much easier
cause less required DPS pad
sick sentinel
tyran is harder than fort
novel ruin
Itβs more that Tyran is a big issue if bosses have other mechanics to them besides big damage
sick sentinel
in a damage sense
left hatch
and I agree, tyran just creates more 1-shot instances
sick sentinel
tyran sucks both because of damage and because most affixes that combine with it are just fortified-lite
glossy depot
sick sentinel
tyran teeming is literally just tyran fort
left hatch
eh id disagree
outside of like 3/4 packs
that become nightmares with teeming
its just fun dps pad that week
novel ruin
If they added an extra 2-3min to Tyran timers, you would see the disparity between fort and Tyran become much smaller
left hatch
id say the other way around
left hatch
Tyran usually just becomes a wall for prog
left hatch
fort has a higher hp pool to plow through
sick sentinel
i mean
sort of
but not really
what essences do u guys recommend me to buy for new warrior
because it's not like trash packs have spirit link
yes you do more damage on fort
but most classes you bring to m+ to push have completely passive cleave
dh is passive
rogue is passive
hunter is passive
mage is passive
left hatch
buy CnS and Lucid first
novel ruin
AOE scales way higher than ST
left hatch
manually farm VoP
left hatch
grab sphere then in its place
sick sentinel
AOE scales way higher than ST
if i understand what you're saying
yes
fort is easier
novel ruin
I mean yes and no
raven knoll
thanks for the explaining
raven knoll
so if im a casual guy tahts starting out wiht tanking and wants to do 15-20 keys i just aim for nzoth + vita right
novel ruin
Yes
left hatch
tbh wouldn't even bother with nzoth that low
sick sentinel
you can pull big in fort
left hatch
unless you have places you plan to use it
novel ruin
Or Vita/Scale
novel ruin
You can pull big in both things
raven knoll
you mean from wrathion?
onyx vessel
I use shell and scale
grave lily
what's scale again? having a brain fart
left hatch
Wrathion trinket yeh
sick sentinel
Aegis of the deep is bad for prot?
grave lily
dragonscale, duh ty
left hatch
its not bad, you have to play around it to make it worthwhile tho
novel ruin
Good of consistently pulling 6+ targets
sick sentinel
idk
left hatch
without amps you need to be in combat constnatly with 6+ targets
sick sentinel
if tyran isn't harder
novel ruin
Good if*
novel ruin
Itβs not that far behind
sick sentinel
it is
left hatch
no i agree its way harder to push on tyran
novel ruin
Itβs more like 2
left hatch
its just easier to farm lower keys with it
novel ruin
Tyran Isnβt harder from a damage viewpoint
sick sentinel
there are less than 20 27s timed
novel ruin
And people run out of CDs
left hatch
now yo'ull be able to use 3 pots on those fights π
novel ruin
Also realize that a lot of top level people donβt put in the same level of effort on Tyran weeks
left hatch
tbf theres other variables to consider besides just Fort vs. Tyran at that point
the other 2 affixes matter a lot
sick sentinel
Also realize that a lot of top level people donβt put in the same level of effort on Tyran weeks
i wonder why
novel ruin
Did 24 KR this week, council took 6:25
sick sentinel
which means
raven knoll
is there an option too compare the little traits like to find out whats best? or donet they mather much?
novel ruin
It isnβt a harder fight than on Fort
left hatch
little traits?
novel ruin
It just takes longer
sick sentinel
which
makes the keys harder
on tyrannical
because the point of keys is timing them
novel ruin
Yes, but again, what makes Tyran harder isnβt the damage taken, itβs running out of time
sick sentinel
yes and no
novel ruin
If Tyran had an extra 2-3min on timer, Fort and Tyran become much closer
sick sentinel
eudora is awful
novel ruin
Keys puts caps on keys
distant crystal
is no-go
distant crystal
you can like, complete a 35 fort almost anything
sick sentinel
rixxa
distant crystal
maybe not KR
novel ruin
If so why hasnβt a 35 been done...
distant crystal
but there's some tyr keys that you can't complete
sick sentinel
rezan too
left hatch
because fort pads the timer more
distant crystal
because completing != timing
raven knoll
@left hatch something like elemntar whril vs azerite globules vs shimmering haven
distant crystal
and you need to time a 34 to get a 35 key lol
novel ruin
Elemental whirl
left hatch
@raven knoll ignore the 'tank' traits like shimmering haven, ablative shielding, crystalline carapce. Ideally go for Overwhelming Power or Unstable Flames, failing that Whirl or the static stats
Last resort is Gutripper/heed my call
novel ruin
How similar is boss damage like Rezans bleed from a Tyran 24/25 to a Fort 28?
onyx vessel
left hatch
you can calculate the % diff using the other abilities tho
sharp night
fort 28 hits significantly harder
it's 27.3% more than a tyr 24, and 15.7% more than a tyr 25
sick sentinel
key level difference is about 2 levels
distant crystal
but fort 28 will have less hp right
sharp night
yeah
distant crystal
so potentiall fewer bleeds total
novel ruin
So a Tyran 26 Atal Rezan is similar to 28 Atal fort
sharp night
the scary part about tyr isn't the actual damage
sick sentinel
no
sharp night
it's the health
distant crystal
there's no good 1:1
sick sentinel
well
yeah
but no
depending on healer you're fnie though
should have a solid rotation of mitigation
novel ruin
Again, Tyran issue is things taking forever therefore running out of CDs
Blizzard, please just remove Fort and Tyran
novel ruin
They arenβt interesting affixes
left hatch
eh id rather ditch bolstering
civic rover
tyrannical is literally just "boss fights take 2 minutes longer because fuck you"
novel ruin
And the feeling that an entire week is unplayable sucks
novel ruin
Bolstering isnβt fun either
novel ruin
Buts it is interesting
sick sentinel
i honestly don't care about affixes period
bolstering isn't that interesting
it's just annoying
left hatch
they need affixes to avoid M+ becoming stale
novel ruin
Depends
left hatch
having to approach dungeons differently week to week is good for longevity
novel ruin
DPS needs more affixes for themselves
novel ruin
Agreed
sick sentinel
necrotic isn't fun
novel ruin
Grevious is free
sick sentinel
ya ok
left hatch
necrotic is pretty free too tbh
novel ruin
Immunities?
left hatch
as long as your healer isn't already behind thats fine
greivous is only a pain if your healer falls behind and lets it stack
sick sentinel
stones and pots won't save you after a certain point
imagine getting targeted twice
kms
novel ruin
No they wonβt but smart play will
novel ruin
And sometimes the smart play is to just die
sick sentinel
netherwalk then blur and pray
novel ruin
Meld
left hatch
darkness
sick sentinel
darkness is bad
novel ruin
Darkness
left hatch
wut
sick sentinel
darkness is not reliable*
left hatch
darkness is an incredible cd
novel ruin
You literally said pray
sick sentinel
darkness excels at periodic damage
novel ruin
And are saying darkness is bad
sick sentinel
the initial hit of jagged is also a concern
left hatch
if you can't survive the first hit of jagged, greivous is the least of your concerns
sick sentinel
grevious at minimum should at least fall off outside of combat
left hatch
yeh ill give you that
novel ruin
Yeah, agreed
sick sentinel
i don't like grevious because it is an affix that pretty much penalizes you from trying to pugging healers
left hatch
eh theres a lot of affixes that suck big much if you pug lyfe
novel ruin
But as an affix itβs pretty easy to manage besides a few cases like JY intermission last boss
sick sentinel
true
left hatch
bursting? lul
sick sentinel
grevious shines tho
left hatch
bolstering? lul
sick sentinel
healer is probably the 2nd most important part of the dungeon
novel ruin
Bursting is much easier on higher keys
sick sentinel
explosive is hilarious
novel ruin
Same with Bolstering
gilded tapir
explosive is just garbage
novel ruin
Yes
sick sentinel
it's pretty boring though
gilded tapir
Debatably harder in a 5
sick sentinel
key level isn't the factor there
left hatch
thats true, if only because you're bound to have a super undergeared healer
sick sentinel
it's the healers applying for a 5
novel ruin
^
sick sentinel
the play for bursting is usually to not pull that much period
but i mean
sure, you aren't wrong
left hatch
eh iv seen healers that can't handle 5/6 stacks even with no reapply
novel ruin
If healers are prepared for it, def can heal 10-15 stacks
left hatch
and 5 stacks is a pretty consistent pack size
grave lily
the ones that have addons that start crying at 3 stacks
gilded tapir
Its fine to pull big on bursting in higher keys if your DPS have a brain
novel ruin
5 stacks doesnβt even kill
gilded tapir
You've got a much larger HP buffer for things to not die
left hatch
nope, but people freaking out and leaving does (:
novel ruin
Find good people, friend them, never pug again
left hatch
yeh i pug rarely
but when i do
oof
I had a tank lose his shit and rage quit a 14 ML because i forgot meta stuns... and stunned the first jockey from getting in his gundam
he raged his route was ruined and left
novel ruin
But I usually pug 20-22s for warmup before pushing or when peeps arenβt on and itβs not horrible
sick sentinel
i dont even play the game
ye
meta stuns
if you macro to @heavy mirage it instantly stuns
sick sentinel
so u can hold it for a second if you want to stun
havoc owns
carried by corruption though
novel ruin
Iβm glad a 14 tank even had a route
left hatch
eh havoc was fun pre-corruption
sick sentinel
tanks at low keys with a route are the worst
novel ruin
I donβt even have a route for 23 ML lol
gilded tapir
pretty sure even the 20+ runs we dont bother with a route in ML
distant crystal
the same thing that makes havoc great w/ corruption made it great w/ everything that was hasted rppm proc
sick sentinel
remove tdev and unguent
distant crystal
furious gaze
left hatch
damage? sure. fun value and playstyle corruption has literally nothing to do with it
novel ruin
Only change I make is sanguine weeks I donβt do peacekeepers
sick sentinel
ok
but who the fuck is talking about playstyle
they aren't bringing hunters to 29s because it plays well
left hatch
who was talking about raw output?
sick sentinel
me
when i said it was carried by corruption
and you commented on my sentence
:p
novel ruin
Look at rogues
sick sentinel
cba to argue
left hatch
or monks in the previous seasons
gilded tapir
Some DHs are ditching tdev for double lash & vers stack now too
novel ruin
Yes they are
left hatch
only there for their buff
sick sentinel
dont they play sin
novel ruin
No
distant crystal
always law p much
left hatch
@gilded tapir thats not for damage tho, thats to survive unavoidable damage lul
novel ruin
Law way too good on utility
distant crystal
shroud is still pretty damned useful when you're struggling to time perfectly-run keys
sick sentinel
no rogues above 6200
novel ruin
I mean
novel ruin
There are what
novel ruin
10-15 people at 6200
gilded tapir
@left hatch still doing enough damage to be useful in 26+ keys though
left hatch
yeh for sure
sick sentinel
oh wait i'm trolling
distant crystal
giga utility
sick sentinel
ignore π
left hatch
their raw output before TD was still crazy
which is why they'll probably be dogshit tier come SL :/
distant crystal
sap blind gouge cheap bte vanish cloak feint
the ability to break the fight on last boss ToS now... lol
left hatch
do'nt forget cheat death
grave lily
cheat death saves lives
sick sentinel
dh are going expedient/lash/versatile
novel ruin
More consistent plus higher survivability
distant crystal
cause they proc it so much more
sick sentinel
lash competes way more
left hatch
yeh the worlds highest key rn they def stacked all versa besides double lash just for survivability
novel ruin
Vers better for ST
gilded tapir
You lose some damage, but you also don't die from getting 3 TDs and ripping threat on pull
sick sentinel
with the expedient
novel ruin
Itβs like with Fury
left hatch
you never die from that anyway on high keys
gilded tapir
You don't lose THAT much damage
novel ruin
Fury Strikethrough versus TD
left hatch
Vers% also boosts the newer build with Fang + Fel
distant crystal
fury doesn't run strikethru do they?
left hatch
so you have absolutely disgusting burst
novel ruin
Yes they do
sick sentinel
so july 14 and 17 are the days to gear my dh...
distant crystal
thought CSHB devalued it
left hatch
striekthrough is crit damage
gilded tapir
You play some strikethrough as fury
left hatch
wouldn't it value it more?
novel ruin
Severe + Strikethrough is PoG
distant crystal
well CSHB likes you critting a lot and cares less about critting bigger but
novel ruin
You either go Severe and TD or Severe and Strikethrough
gilded tapir
Crit cap becomes relevant
distant crystal
ye
left hatch
wait you no longer stack 3 CSHB?
distant crystal
it pandemics right?
novel ruin
You do
sick sentinel
no
distant crystal
the trait stacks
novel ruin
^
distant crystal
it just doesn't like, add if it procs again
left hatch
oh gotcha
left hatch
i do'nt think a lot of things pandemic anymore
sick sentinel
who cares
novel ruin
Just resets timer
left hatch
kitty is the only thing offhand
left hatch
but tbh you reapply so often does it really matter if it pandemics?
sick sentinel
^
sick sentinel
crit devalues after a certain point cuz it's a bleed
novel ruin
In a dungeon I have about 80% uptime on CSHB with 55% base crit
sick sentinel
the timer and ppm are separate
left hatch
yeh once you can reliable keep it up 100% i think crit drops off
sick sentinel
so you can go a bit without a proc and still keep uptime
left hatch
but crit% still has value
novel ruin
Never will be 100%
sick sentinel
it has less value
left hatch
close to*
gilded tapir
It's more to do with being crit capped during CDs
Going excessively past that point strikethrough becomes better
left hatch
i really like classes that value stat essences more than TD
novel ruin
Yes and no
left hatch
like BM, just way more interesting to see corruption augment their kit interactions
than a random death beam
novel ruin
Some are ridiculous
left hatch
super subjective for sure but
novel ruin
Like arms and mage
gilded tapir
Dying because of TD proccing off charge also not fun
novel ruin
Fury has a nice balance
grave lily
I like how BM balances 3 stat amps, more interesting than 8 expedients
left hatch
is arms still in a place where you literally need some expedients to make it viable
novel ruin
Itβs viable without expedients
left hatch
competitive with fury tho?
novel ruin
I believe with no expedients, still does more ST than Fury if played perfectly
left hatch
cause start of this tier it was super hard to get enough haste gear
to make it relevent
novel ruin
^
novel ruin
^
distant crystal
being a melee with shit personals
novel ruin
Raid progress Arms was better
distant crystal
and no self healing to speak of
novel ruin
Dstance is actually nuts
novel ruin
Dbts is good but 3min cd
novel ruin
Nor blade dance
left hatch
well.. blurs the best personal in the game lul
novel ruin
Too bad I dislike Arms AOE
left hatch
theres no comparison
novel ruin
Iron ark
novel ruin
Ironbark*
distant crystal
divine shield yo
sick sentinel
feint + elusiveness