Yeah I’m general I forget about demoshout
#protection
chilly portal
tranquil edge
you generally don't really want to use devastate unless you have nothing else
@civic rover ironic with it being called devastate. Not very devastating
chilly portal
I think beefing up my rage spending by just throwing it at IP will help with that
tranquil edge
mellow patio
for example on a fight that length you should probably be TCing 70-80 times more than you have been
civic rover
you can also pop the logs into wow analyzer
mellow patio
that too
civic rover
it'll tell you if you're using TC and SS enough
also shows if you're using CDs appropriately but maybe take it with a grain of salt
mellow patio
2 LS casts too 
civic rover
yeah u should almost be casting LS on cd assuming you have TD
chilly portal
I might practice by assuming devastate isn’t a skill at all
civic rover
unless you need it for a big incoming hit
chilly portal
I do have TD
mellow patio
I mean to use LS effectively you'll want to use it to fill gaps in SB uptime
the added benefit of the extra TD damage is bonus
chilly portal
Great advice everyone
I only recently got into prot warrior a few months ago after many years of prot paladin
civic rover
pop the logs into wowanalyzer and it'll give you some general tips
chilly portal
Similar in a lot of ways but also obviously very very different in just general rotation
civic rover
yeah icy veins is a great resource
chilly portal
Just so I can get it out if my mind, what haste are you usually sitting at with full into the fray but before procs
civic rover
i get pretty lucky with gear but im usually between 50% and 55%
mellow patio
keep in mind I have good gear but I sit at 62% with ITF
civic rover
i think almost all my pieces have haste
but i still have some 460... if i get a few more mythic pieces i might be a bit higher
mellow patio
def
chilly portal
Okay. I’ll double check when I am back on
And that stat you’re referencing is just from the character screen not if you hover your mouse over the stat?
civic rover
yeah
chilly portal
Kk
civic rover
what trinkets are you running
if you have one or two haste proc trinkets like vita and the wrath trinket it can also help a lot
civic rover
yeah as far as i know that's the best offensive trinkets for M+
sometimes you'll want nzoth trinket but yeah your trinkets are good
chilly portal
That’s what I used for a long time on my paladin until I had a 475 rezan
Which replaced wraithion
civic rover
rezans alright too but i think it procs a lot less than those two
mellow patio
rezans is same PPM as vita
mellow patio
just less stats per proc so scale averages out to be more haste at equal ilvl
shadow wagon
how do i not get my ass clapped on rixxa fluxflame
mellow patio
reflect every other chemical burn
shadow wagon
i was reflecting every other dot thing
mellow patio
do not overlap cds with your healer
shadow wagon
her autos were melting me
vocal skiff
18 AD, had 8 minutes to kill yazma. All dps dies, deplete
mellow patio
hate to see that
civic rover
do you guys kill the middle pack on AD
vocal skiff
I do this week
mellow patio
ye on teeming volc thats free %
civic rover
i usually pull it if it's not bolstering
fierce phoenix
hey quick maybe stupid question - in terms of shields and "blocking" is it always just higher ilvl gives better block %s
(% of dmg mitigated)
mellow patio
yes
fierce phoenix
is there anywhere to go look at the numbers
how much stronger is the 475 ilvl shield than the 460
particularly given that haste/verse shields are limited in where you can obtain
mellow patio
oh god, math is hard. you dont have to have haste/verse btw higher ilvl will always outperform stats on a shield
lots of factors that play into the difference between a 475 and 460
fierce phoenix
@mellow patio thank you!
mellow patio
i live to serve
fierce phoenix
It's still half a mill on ah!
civic rover
I’m still rich from legion
arctic charm
Does anyone have thoughts on clockwork shoulders instead of skitra shoulders?
vocal skiff
timed the AD 18 now
I guess third time is the charm
I thought I would embark in a Vivv's UR adventure of sorts
civic rover
i've attempted at least 7 tol dagor 17s and all have been depleted
sick sentinel
Where do you feel most time is lost or most dps or you die?
grave lily
accidentally Twilight Deving an MDI pull is my favorite part of TD
sick sentinel
I know the final boss on tyrannical can be a real brick wall for some groups and all of 2nd boss room can be an absolute nightmare with the group bubble
I know you can td pull cages but Rng proc makes it too unreliable I wonder if it would be wise to have a 2nd td'er get him to do same as you, then you'd only need 1 Smith key, scroll and could eliminate taking rogue entirely
civic rover
it's just
i feel like TD is very punishing of mistakes
tyrannical sand queen can eat a lot of time... second boss without a rogue is tough, idk
i think there's just a lot of stuff that can really screw the key if a few interrupts are missed and stuff
a lot of the runs are only one or two minutes over
sick sentinel
One thing with a pug at least is you simply cannot lust on 3rd boss
Yes, it's literal a do nothing boss, which is great for lust, but final is sorta do nothing too, but needs to die before too many rotations of dead eye go off and people start to get confused
People start moving to soak,when they don't need to and bar fills up stuns and they get hit by cannon/star attack
sullen valve
@ionic fern how do I get a 8 second shield block cooldown?
void hill
When stacking Vers is it normal to run lucid dreams?
chilly brook
@mellow patio sooooo
I'm being propositioned to swap to Alliance for a guild that's 11/12m with 200 pulls on N'zoth
chilly portal
@mellow patio follow on one of my questions from earlier. 473 ilvl and have 44% with 5 stacks of into the fray. I’m assuming that’s low based on the numbers you reported but is that going to make or break my ability right now?
sick sentinel
so i got 430 gloves with TD3
should i use that over my 460 gloves?
same secondary stats but i dont have any TD right now and i feel like the damage will make up for it
chilly portal
As you can see above, still trying to make my own as a prot warrior but a lot of the advice here is that td will be much more useful than the ilvl
If you’re not getting spanked then that dps is going to be massive
void hill
@sick sentinel you can sim it to find out
but im going to guess TD3 is better than 30 ilvls
sick sentinel
wow analyzer?
or ? new to tanking unsure but will check pins
i see stuff like do sims but they arent reliable at the same time for tanks so idk
chilly portal
No, simulationcraft
Add on that grabs your character and gear then you throw in on raidbots to sum your dps
Sim*
void hill
there are some good youtube vieos
mellow patio
@chilly portal haste is still low but you should be fine, your inefficient rage dump is your main issue
Make sure you are using avatar and demo shout on cd
chilly portal
You can’t aim for tankiness. The ilvl will be tankier, so that’s what I meant by if you’re not dying for the content you’re doing, the twilight dev will more than likely sim greater dps
Can’t sim for tankiness*
sick sentinel
ok
chilly portal
Thanks @mellow patio there are some lower ilvl pieces I have with td im still hanging onto until I can replace with the td 3 I bought today so that probably accounts for a few hundred haste
mellow patio
My advice is wait until you have a solid 475 piece that you won’t replace to apply the TD3
void hill
@mellow patio what's your target haste?
mellow patio
No target, get as much as you can
mellow patio
Yes
Haste > crit for m+
Haste > vers for raid
Can use vers in m+ as well, but stacking vers isn’t something that is typically necessary until higher keys
void hill
what's higher keys? 20+ or 25+
mellow patio
It varies based on your/your groups ability but generally 23/24+ people start to go more vers heavy
Doesn’t mean those keys aren’t doable without vers, but it increases the margin for error
void hill
what kind of damage are you doing in keys
mellow patio
That is going to vary by pull size/gear
As you get more comfortable defensively and start pulling bigger, your dps will naturally go up. For now I’d focus on staying alive (if that’s a problem) and go from there
void hill
oh i thought we were talking about vers vs crit builds
I stack vers and run 1 TD3
just curious how much damage you're doing running crit
mellow patio
My damage varies anywhere from 70k - 100k depending on dungeon/affixes
mellow patio
Crit is nice offensively sure but also gives us parry which is unreliable but a significant benefit of crit
mellow patio
Low 20s i would run crit
chilly brook
I did like 67k overall on my DH running TD in a 16 this week
TD is far more advantageous up until you actually need the increase in EHP @void hill
I don't know because this is #protection
void hill
i mean my warrior is my alt but im typically doing 19s or 20s
i have a TD 6 build
but vers seems better
and does about the same dam
it feels like
chilly brook
Sorry but I'm gonna call Bs
mellow patio
If it feels better, run it. There is literally nothing wrong with stacking vers at that level
chilly brook
Vers stacking should not be doing the same damage
void hill
im not really vers stacking
mellow patio
What I am here to say is that it A) does less damage and B) is not required to complete keys at that level easily
void hill
im running td3 + vers
mellow patio
If you aren’t stacking vers I wouldn’t run versatile
chilly brook
^^
mellow patio
Ye no worries do you, I just try to steer people away from the notion that stacking vers is the play 100% of the time
If it’s comfortable, do it. Very little downside
void hill
well i mean i could also be playing it wrong
i can tell you running TD 6 or maybe it's 5
i've never done more than 60k
chilly brook
Certainly a high possibility
How big are you pulling?
This week should be big numbers
void hill
okay so i just did a 19 freehold
i pulled the first 3 packs
i think my dps was at like 150k for that pull
void hill
i get that
mellow patio
Like 150k for that pull isn’t bad
void hill
i dont have the best gear either
i dont have any mythic raid items
just all weekly chest or 465/470
mellow patio
If you’re anything like me with my Alts, I get it lmao. Granted my Alts get the absolute mythic boost at this point
void hill
yea mine do too
but
warrior is my 4th alt
behind pally, druid, and priest
i have issues
raven knoll
any good trinkets for the beginning out of m+ for tanking? or just non good at all?
chilly brook
@void hill are you holding any CDs?
mellow patio
Sporepods is terrible and so is modular platinum plating @raven knoll
Good trinkets are vita, rezans, and wrathion trinket
As well as nzoth trinket
Also
Any bears in the chat
chilly brook
I feel like I'd be stupid to not take this offer Hawgz but at the same time alliance
mellow patio
Honestly just find a horde guild who has it on farm lmao
exotic spoke
What was the offer?
mellow patio
Play dps and beg to tank in SL
Most tanks hate tanking enough that they will swap lol
sick sentinel
it’s a trap
sick sentinel
it’s a trap
exotic spoke
That’s possibly the most unique schedule I’ve seen
sick sentinel
I’ll watch this situation with intrigue
exotic spoke
I’ve never seen that before.
What’s the guild name?
chilly brook
He also told me he didn't care what I played
Gotta do opsec I don't want that to get sniped before I make a decision Riki
exotic spoke
Just DM me. I won’t leak - swear to god. Plus I like my guild and can’t make that schedule as it would be 1 am to 3 am for me
chilly brook
I'm not actually worried
sick sentinel
pog
mellow patio
The thought of playing alliance makes me want to die
sick sentinel
ask them their nzoth prog first
chilly brook
You mean you don't want to be a thicc boi?
sick sentinel
alliance fucking sucks
mellow patio
Although boralus is pog
chilly brook
I can just look at logs for that Pastures
mellow patio
Question is how low is nzoth after 200 pulls
exotic spoke
50%
void hill
@chilly brook sorry for the late reply
sick sentinel
one good pull away from killing it
exotic spoke
53% was lowest I think.
And yeah if going for the burn strat (and why wouldn’t you)
mellow patio
Ye that’s just get through an anguish and burn > portal > burn
Boss is so fun as prot lmao
void hill
I use Avatar and demo on CD basically, I used SB x3, then last stand. Ignore pain if i need mitigation or revenge if i dont. and use nazoth trinket and other cd's as fillers
sick sentinel
hardest part of nzoth is staying awake
void hill
thunderclap on cd, shield slam on cd
mellow patio
Hardest part is watching one dps die to anguish every pull even though it’s on farm
exotic spoke
I just started N’Zoth. First phase hurts. But that’s it really right?
mellow patio
Yes
exotic spoke
In terms of damage in
mellow patio
Get through psychus
Never take damage
Thotties can hurt if you don’t block but why wouldn’t you block
And if you position them well they should just melt
exotic spoke
Try raid leading when you’re absolutely shit faced on your birthday (everyone knew I was going to be)
Reclear in um antorus? I think. With the three shivaraa or whatever. I called stack at the wrong time.
Instead of spread
mellow patio
Classic
But raid leading
How much do you hate yourself
I can barely manage myself let alone 19 mongos
exotic spoke
I don’t raid lead anymore
sick sentinel
oh wait riki that’s you
exotic spoke
Gallywix asked me to raid lead an alliance in house if we needed it and I said no thanks. I’m done with that for now
I’m everywhere
/wave
Also hi! And why do you say that’s me?
mellow patio
Riki how come you never did keys with me
exotic spoke
Oh! Probably I have lots of people on my bnet.
I may have removed you if you hadn’t logged in for a while - for buyers
sick sentinel
you’re the one who told me about davie 
exotic spoke
And hawgz. That’s cause there’s only enough room for one toxic warrior 🙂
Ahh daveybtw
That’s content
sick sentinel
and then i left
sick sentinel
sick sentinel
stop being alliance
knotty fiber
is prot vers > haste > other stats like bears are?
exotic spoke
Not at all Hawgz. It’s pretty easy
exotic spoke
Ilvl > haste > rest
Until you get to low to mid 20s and then vers > haste
Trust me. I know some toxic healers
mellow patio
Basically just make sure you have haste vers on every piece of you are gonna stack
knotty fiber
I'm planning on pushing keys, but I'll gem/enchant haste until I start getting to those 20s
mellow patio
Good work soldier
exotic spoke
@tame garden I found a fellow prot bear
mellow patio
I am ambear
exotic spoke
He may need further guidance in coming to the light
mellow patio
Is that me
exotic spoke
You’re a healing panda though
knotty fiber
I'm lyvern
exotic spoke
Not a prot Bear
mellow patio
Incorrect
exotic spoke
I know 🙂
mellow patio
Hawgbear is a bear
tame garden
mellow patio
Speg
exotic spoke
Sup qtpie Speg
exotic spoke
Speg is best bear
knotty fiber
oh fuk speg
mellow patio
How tf do I unlock legion bear artifact appearances
exotic spoke
Cutest bear.
knotty fiber
he's gonna find me cheating on the bear discord
exotic spoke
I let him in my discord cause he’s so cute
tame garden
mellow patio
My discord is a lawless wasteland
exotic spoke
I should transfer my second warrior back horde
tame garden
vulpera bis
knotty fiber
if I had vulpera unlocked I'd faction xfer my warr right now
exotic spoke
My discord is wholesome. The DHs tried to overthrow it though. Tried to make general chat the DH strat talk and the new channel I made for them called “DH strat talk” into the new general
They never saw my retribution coming though
mellow patio
Yeah mine is an unregulated state
We have a bot called “the law” that deletes the bad but other than that anyone has full privileges
It’s a wild ride
exotic spoke
I have several druids in my discord that are cute
Dree. Speg. Smashed (he’s not so much of a bear but more so a cat / boomie / resto)
mellow patio
Am bear
exotic spoke
Panda don’t count.
mellow patio
I am druid now
exotic spoke
!
mellow patio
This is not a drill
mellow patio
Juiced up my warrior, fully geared vdh, bear seemed like a logical next step
I am only healing rn cause it’s easier to get carried lmao
exotic spoke
Don’t have Double r druid 1 rsham 1 h priest for mythic prog
Also if you know a hpal let me know. Just started N’Zoth prog.
Night prot cuties
mellow patio
Night notriki
stark ocean
Any ideas on what I can change to do more overall damage? I like to go into 15-17s and just chain pull/large etc because my main, monk I use for higher keys due to comfort
I find myself hovering between 45k - 55k overall on Details!. I have a lot of grinding to do get resist to make TD4 > TD5, but I see people on stream doing these keys and ending up with higher overall dmg
I feel like I warriors are supposed to do much. More than just 5-10k overall than (in this case) my monk
I just want to crank maximum stupid dmg in the 15-17 key range
I’m thinking of removing devastate from my bars bc i think I have a tendency to press it sometimes and gcd lock out of a thunderclap so that’s one thing I may try
mellow patio
You run TD4 no? Honestly I don’t see any glaring problems with gear. It’s likely either your pulls aren’t big enough or you are having rotational issues which I can’t tell from rio
stark ocean
Yeah TD4 + IT1
mellow patio
Don’t remove devastate from your bars, just don’t prio it
stark ocean
I think it’s a habit tho from it being on the same keybind as my much slower paced monks tiger palm
Which is why im thinking of it’s removal
Monks are sooooo slow compared to warriors esp when IT, avatar, trinkets are all going it’s like nonstop button pressing on my warrior
Okay thanks Hawgz appreciate the feedback
mellow patio
Don’t hold avatar either
Ever
Press avatar and demo shout on cd
Then TC and SS are priority
Dump rage into IP
stark ocean
Yah I don’t hold cds except for SHIELD walll
Everything else at this key level is on. CD
Yah I think I miss TCs
My net overall, TC is #1 with TD tied for second
mellow patio
If you have logs we can help out a bit better but it could also be pull size
TD also introduces some RNG
stark ocean
Probably a combination of missing TC as soon as it pops up plus pull size
Because TC is dynamic in cool down (whereas all major buttons for monk are fixed(
I thin I need to focus harder on hitting that TC faster
mellow patio
Ye in avatar you should be TC every other GCD
With good luck you can TC>Ss>TC at times in avatar which is big dam
stark ocean
Yea I do TC, DEmo. TC, Ss, TC, dev, TC etc
And when IT and avatar and haste procs
TC is a global
mellow patio
You have the right idea, probably just some issues with execution
Comes with practice 🙂
stark ocean
I’m still thinking I over use devastate lol
I know myself too well as I type this out
ok thanks! Time to@sleep
knotty fiber
you aren't supposed to heroic throw every other gcd i navatar?
fuck I've been playing this wrong
ionic fern
114 Heroic Throw casts in a dungeon, ama.
knotty fiber
weak
idle idol
question, how much does block value actualy mean for your survivability?
like i upgraded shield from 5k block to 8.5k block
how big is it
knotty fiber
I'm not certain what the numbers are in reference to on each column
ionic fern
?
DR from blocking.
mellow patio
knotty fiber
no wonder the boe shield from nya is so expensive
junior pebble
Does ineffible work on interrupt?
amber siren
yep
nova arrow
Hey fellas, I’ve started doing higher keys as a prot and got my full 15s and now I wanna go further. I was wondering if u guys are using any m+ addons that make easier to play through the runs. Using basic stuff like dbm, wa and also have interrupt wa to see my groups .
Like any useful source that gives usable info ^^
steep bone
DBM isn't as detailed as little wigs, from addons it's good to have some Weak Auras (that you can find on wago.io), Mythic Dungeon Tools to plan/see routes/mob count etc.
Also.
Hi frens
nova arrow
Yeah also have mdt, details, gtfo
junior pebble
Yeah, MDT is going to be your big one, half planning routes and half amending routes on the fly
nova arrow
Yeah, what I’m asking is the more underrated but useful ones
junior pebble
An addon that tracks the group's interrupts is always very nice to have
sweet summit
ZenTracker
nova arrow
Like some ppl with 3k rio says the thing that what u got hit for a huge dmg, some useful stuff like that
Aight I’ll check zentracker ^^
sweet summit
its a WA
steep bone
zentracker displays you party cooldowns/abilities so you can see for example mage when he's gonna have combustion so you can do bigger pull for it
nova arrow
Yeah I checked it, it seems better than my current interrupt wa so I’ll change it and use zentracker ^^
Yeah exactly ^^
steep bone
along with it use nnoga adidtion to it, changes it's looking a bit, i mean its personal preference but i like it
nova arrow
Zentracker requires LibGroupInspecT which is like 8.1.5 old
Does it work with anything else or just works even tho it’s out of date
steep bone
@sweet summit are u in game :P?
sweet summit
yeah im doing visions 💤
sweet summit
👌
still pagoda
Zentracker requires LibGroupInspecT which is like 8.1.5 old
@nova arrow
Because SpellID's of all cooldowns didn't change since then
nova arrow
Aight thanks
fast vessel
is there any point of haste where gem/chanting for others makes sense?
sweet summit
no
fast vessel
thanks
hidden plaza
21 workshop what major would you go with?
strong forum
MS
still pagoda
MS
strong forum
lucid @hidden plaza
hidden plaza
cns/vop and?
hidden plaza
i dont need the 10 resis still sotw?
hidden plaza
ty
sick sentinel
when is curruption reset?
strange tide
9pm server time in EU
steep bone
Hi frens ❤️
shadow bay
steep bone
Nut
still pagoda
grats
nova vector
Good morning warriors. I’ve been Fury majority of expansion but recently went Prot for my m+ group. We are currently doing keys in the 19/20 range. I had purchased a bunch of vers amp since I thought that was the route to go but seeing here that may not be necessary until mid-20 keys. Plus I was only able to buy 5 vers amps so not even able to maximize that atm.
So far my ability to survive has not been an issue so my main goal right now is to push dps as much as possible. From reading in here, TD seems to be the way to go for that (TD 5 or 6). Is this correct? Also if running heavy TD, should I not be running vers amp and instead run something else? Thanks for the replies. I’m loving the change to prot so far.
sweet summit
a lot of TD, and with one or two IT1
strong forum
to maximise dmg you wanna use as many TDs as you deem fit, Fill the rest with IT1
vers amps obv only do anything if you have vers on every slot
im running a mix build for my 22-24 keys with TD3 + 2x Vers3 + 2x IT1
steep bone
I just had amazing pug group
nova vector
I forgot to mention I do have 1 IT. Will work on getting a second
wooden radish
@ionic fern question -- does the ripple in space minor stack with the run speed gem?
sick sentinel
Hey guys, sorry to bother you. In your personal experience, when did it seem like vers stacking was the way to go over TD in M+? My apologies if this has been asked recently.
novel ruin
@sick sentinel 24/25s for vers
To give you an idea, I run TD3, 2x R1 Ineffeable and have a couple vers amps. I have haste/vers in almost every slot. Sitting at 32% vers and mid 50s haste with Into the Fray. Attempted 24 KR last night, I only died to Zul (at 4% gah).
strong forum
Well Zul is more of a dmg check rather than gear check
novel ruin
Yeah, the point showcasing that you don’t need to run a ton of vers even in one of the hardest dungeons at a 24 level.
strong forum
Ye. The only reason why I will drop TD soon tm is because I just wanna afk
novel ruin
Next time vers comes up I switch completely but that’s because my group is hoping to be at that 25 stage in the next 3 weeks
steep bone
https://corruptionvendor.com/ you can check when it's gonna be
tranquil edge
Quick question
does VOP with Avatar proc the IP from Azerite trait?
cant remember
sweet summit
yes, at 35% efficiency
sick sentinel
Thanks for the insight. I only ask because I was running a 21 KR and a PUG holy pally was having a tough time keeping up. I have no idea what was causing it.
Barring Zul, I know that’s rough anyways
Well there's two (point five) answers
- He played poorly
- You played poorly
2.5 You group didn't pull the right mobs/kick the right stuff/tank the bleeds
Like I guess that falls under point 1 but if you were tanking all the zerker bleeds instead of melee dps/pets/etc that would hurt
Where did he have issues
Yeah I was
I guess additionally do you know he was having issues? Maybe he knew that you could survive on low hp so he was just pushing more damage 🤷♂️
Well initially that’s what I was thinking, but there was a pull (specifically the first zerker pull) where I just fell over after cycling defensives.
But that may have just been a one off
The thought he knew I would survive does make sense for the rest of the dungeon tho
Were the shadow bolts or whatever being kicked
That first pull has two casters and obviously magic is your greatest weakness
I think the issue there came down to them not getting desynced now that I think about it.
So they were just smacking me at the same time with the bleed
That could add up yeah
Those kicks are really important cause at that level each one is doing 300k to you pre mitigation
At least it's not fort
But you didn't die so
Pog
I did unfortunately
That was the one pack
We still timed it. Was just unfortunate.
Oh
Unlucky
Well if you log your keys people can probably analyse them and give some tips but it sounds like you know how you should have handled the pull and if you have no issues elsewhere you're probably set 👍
I appreciate you man! It was just the difference of +2ing the key, so was a tad unfortunate.
knotty fiber
is intimidating presence any good
still pagoda
no
knotty fiber
cool, ty
tho I'm sure just about anything is better than the 370 weapon I have right now :v
sweet summit
midnight coral
Hey bois! I have a question for the advanced warriors. I have a 465 chest piece + shoulders with BoM on them from heroic ny'lotha. Would it be a good idea for me to replace them with random 475 armor I can buy with residuum even if they have bad traits on them, or should I save up for the specific pieces?
sweet summit
random 475 would be better since ilvl is yuge
midnight coral
I know deafening is worth 15 ilevels, not the same for BoM?
sweet summit
nop
still pagoda
tho I'm sure just about anything is better than the 370 weapon I have right now :v
@knotty fiber
Weapon is always the slot that is ilvl dominant
Just as shield
midnight coral
ok thanks @sweet summit
knotty fiber
I'm trying to get a new one :c
sweet summit
try harder 
sick sentinel
Hey all. So since i still have my bfa boost around, i thought about boosting a prot warrior. I've already tanked keys up to 15 on my druid, but was wondering, are prot warriors much harder than the other tanks?
warm plinth
Not really harder but more punishing to mistakes
sick sentinel
Not really harder but more punishing to mistakes
@warm plinth yeah that's what i heard :/ Hmm big decisions
hold up
i'm watching asmons stream he's doing final boss of junk (technically mecha zero) and you can just jump over the blue beams? like as in space bar not HL
sweet summit
yes
strong forum
yes
sick sentinel
god damnit
Not really harder but more punishing to mistakes
@warm plinth is it by a lot tho? like on mistake and your close to die?
still pagoda
Not really
strong forum
depends on what youre doing
still pagoda
But in higher keys you will definitely die if mistake is done
sick sentinel
in like +15 you can afford up to 2-3 mistakes at one time i find
before shit starts to go south
sweet summit
just play perfectly
sick sentinel
I personally think that prot warriors have a high skill floor but a low skill ceiling of the tanks
Once you've learned to have effective shield block uptime there isn't much more you can do to make yourself play better
Like it's really hard to die unless you're against lots of caster
My 2 cents
still pagoda
That's literally the case with all tank specs
Prot has higher ceiling due to high apm gameplay
sick sentinel
No I don’t think so
still pagoda
BrM is braindead beyond relief
sick sentinel
Eh just nervous i got to used to druid tanking, since all you pretty much have to do is ironfur up constantly, and normal rotation
Prot pally and bdk are both far more punishing
strong forum
well thats due to being weaker
still pagoda
^
sweet summit
ok so what tank other than maybe bdk is more complex?
strong forum
not due to being mechanically harder
still pagoda
Prot pally is really easy on mechanical level thanks to mastery
strong forum
take 50% armor away from prot warri and all of a sudden its way harder
thats not really how it works
still pagoda
^
sick sentinel
Is there any weakaura that helps telling when to use shield block and ignore pain? While learning
sweet summit
not that i know of
its not hard tho
taking blockable damge? use shield block
have extra rage you need to get rid of in order to not overcap? use ignore pain
strong forum
theres no weakaura that will play the game for you
tanking requires knowledge of what dungeon / boss youre about to fight
sweet summit
ra-den auto assign, check mate
sick sentinel
remove as much un-nessecary bullcrap visuals from your screen as you can and don't click buttons
sweet summit
sick sentinel
hes learning
@strong forum i tanked 15 on druid tho 😛 I just heard so mixed about prot warriors
strong forum
15s is whatever
you can do them blindfolded
ill argue that you can do 15s without even using SB
still pagoda
Is there any weakaura that helps telling when to use shield block and ignore pain? While learning
@sick sentinel
No. Since this is really simple. You keep SB up whenever you have blockable damage incoming, and IP just as a rage dump
You need to refresh SB soon? Keep 30 rage and don't dump it all into IP while using IP with no regard to its absorb, just as a rage dump
sweet summit
i could probably tank a 15 on my warrior, as fury
knotty fiber
as a bear main, prot is a lot more nuanced and there's a ton more shit to do
strong forum
ya defo
knotty fiber
the amount of buttons is like doubled
sweet summit
BAER OWNS
still pagoda
Even more braindead than BrM
sick sentinel
NO, you cannot do 15 without sb, or at least it would be extremely painful and exspensive
knotty fiber
bear is dum easy and warr is a pretty nice upgrade to complexity
sweet summit
im pretty sure you can, yogi
sick sentinel
Hi sorry I was getting a delivery
ur gunna have a real bad time if you don't use SB
I don't think it's fair to say warrior is more punishing that prot pally
Ignoring the numerical strength
They simple just have lower uptime on their active mitigation
And as such, every time they choose to use it when it's unnecessary, they are punished more down the line
I'm not too involved in this but it just makes more sense to me that if prot pallies get less uptime on activei mit
Then each usage is more important than prot warrior
And thus each misusage is more impactful
still pagoda
pally
Low uptime
Most palas use mastery as the second best secondary and sit in consecration for eternity while cycling through SotR
strong forum
havent played pally since 8.1.5 so i cant comment much on it
sick sentinel
Compare it to prot warrior tho
lower cd shield block
avatar
anger management for last stand + bolster
I haven't played prot pally so to be fair I also might be talking out of my ass
still pagoda
They have a really good saving net which is the consecration with normal amounts mastery
sick sentinel
But that is what I've heard thrown around
fleet kayak
I need to cleanse 1 item, should I keep Infinite stars 2 or Twisted appendage 2?
sick sentinel
i thought about stopping playing personally
still pagoda
Warr is the only tank where you don't have any saving throw mechanics
still pagoda
I need to cleanse 1 item, should I keep Infinite stars 2 or Twisted appendage 2?
@fleet kayak
Cleanse both
sick sentinel
like the whole thing literally imploded
still pagoda
that guild is apparently disbanding now
@sick sentinel
A-52 is a pretty big server as far as i heard
Just find a better guild
👍
sweet summit
4head
knotty fiber
Tanks want one of 2 things: vers or TD
fleet kayak
why cleanse both?
still pagoda
Because both are garbo
sick sentinel
Yeah I agree they have nothing to like save them from death like ardent or wahtever the cheat deathy thing is for prot pally
fleet kayak
so run 0 corruption, thanks
sweet summit
cleanse IS if anything
sick sentinel
But like do they ever realistically get in that situation
still pagoda
Have you ever been to mythic ilgy? Or Imonar back in 7.3.2 days?
sick sentinel
i haven't ran my +15 for the week yet, and i have the mdt's, i just really don't feel like it
still pagoda
Just in case. For prot warr, mistake = death
sick sentinel
Do any of you use threat plates?
sweet summit
i use plater
sick sentinel
Well I’m talking in the context of the current expansion
knotty fiber
also use plater
still pagoda
Ilgy is the current expansion
sick sentinel
And I was mainly talking about m+ but
still pagoda
Current tier even
sick sentinel
I did say unless there are casters thrown in the mix
I’m trying to adjust my threat plates to put my target forward ahead of any other enemies health bars and make casting targets health bars move ahead of them as well.
Illy g is a pain because he’s a safer
*caster
Ffs
still pagoda
In M+ you'll still get yeeted if mistake is done
sick sentinel
Can you do either with plater?
strong forum
you can do everything with plater
its absolutely superior to every other nameplate addon
sick sentinel
I messed around with plater’s options once but it had a lot of options.
Idk I find it very hard to get fucked
I feel as if I always have a tool I can use
still pagoda
After starting my push into high keys recently, i just know that if you make mistake in something like +22-23, you die
sick sentinel
Well I guess I’ll give plater a try again. I felt like it provided more info than what’s necessary. I really like how threat plates show threat values approx. is the same achievable with plater?
Well I guess
What’s your definition of a mistake to you
Like there are different scales, perhaps we are talking about different kinds of things
Like since I was trying to argue the skill ceiling is low in terms of punishing your mistakes I was trying to state the min maxing is less important. Like I would technically consider using a charge of shield block on yazma (assuming no skewer) when she is about to cast wracking pain into soul rend a mistake
As assuming you’re not capping charges
You can better use that shield block charge after
To give more effective uptime
But I will admit I haven’t done this in practice as I don’t play my warrior enough where it matters
But to me, that’s a mistake as it’s not min maxing. But I also feel as if there’s no punishment to wearing a shield block charge there as I know with IT and anger management there are plenty of spare cool downs to go around should they be necessary
God I fuckijg love bolster
i would probaly only do keys up to around 20 ish! And one of the reasons i started with druid, was their saftey net, so i thought it would be better to learn with ^^
What is the safety net on druidb
It’s not frenzie rejuv right?
@strong forum the one i use is specifically for threat, called threatplates
The thing I didn’t like about plater I remember was how debuffs showed.
so in "tank mode" anything you have aggro on is green by default, yellow losing/netrual and red if u lost aggro
makes it real simple to figure out what to taunt
For example
It’s not frenzie rejuv right?
@sick sentinel both that, also cc as Tauren speed boost away, quick swiftmend. Mind you I only done up to 15 at this point
The debuffs above unit frames on player look terrible and don’t tend to stand out as well. Or buffs
I guess that’s kind of a safety net but I thought it’s rotational
Kinda feels like calling death strike a safety net XD
To me the real safety nets are ardent and then the literal cheat deaths of DK and DH
No one else has a cheat death right?
sweet summit
rogue 🧢
sick sentinel
Lol ofc
Btw when i get to the point of 17+ keys I would probably have learned when to sb and ip 😛
I guess that’s kind of a safety net but I thought it’s rotational
@sick sentinel haha yeah I see what you mean! But I found myself thinking damn close call, and wondered what I would have done as warrior 😛
To me I was just thinking you wouldn't end up in that situation realistically unless you made mistake upon mistake but I see your point too haha
Warrior is giga fun tho
clap clap clap
👏
🎬
0 second cd on anything
what's a great key for this week?
I thought about TD, but well, that's tol dagor....
civic rover
anything that's not KR
primal dune
Every key other than KR
civic rover
the first boss room you have to split it into 4 pulls unless you're in a coordinated group
sick sentinel
You can't do the first two pulls of the first boss room together because there's a caster in each
So that slows you down
primal dune
I mean it’s Tyrannical KR
sick sentinel
You gotta deal with the purification guy in the blob room
civic rover
just adds too much BS
sick sentinel
oohh
nooonnonononononon
fuck that dude
i remember him
There's an extra brute that patrols
no way i'm going thre
primal dune
He’s not hard if you just do 2 blobs
civic rover
every other dungeon is pretty easy
primal dune
Wiped cuz a hunter pulled rest of the room
sick sentinel
And you pretty much have to do the brute because teeming means your count required increases
primal dune
Both brutes
sick sentinel
Tyrannical bosses in there already last so long, 3rd boss is 5 or 6 mins yk
And they're hard
Teeming just means you have to spend MORE TIME doing everything else and that's what is going to caues you to deplete
what order is the trio?
If you're too slow the timer runs out womp womp doesn't matter if you die
Backhand/chrage > caster > axe
primal dune
Construct ele axe
sick sentinel
Also a bad order
if its the axes first it can be pure hell
Axes first is better than charge first I'd think
You want the charge guy like last cause it's so disruptive if it overlaps
totem charge axes is bae imo
I think*
civic rover
doesnt temple also suck in teeming
primal dune
Temple is ez
primal dune
Just extra rogues near first boss
civic rover
isn't therea bunch of those charge guys
sick sentinel
Well the thing is the charge during the axe overlap is very punishing
which ever one dies first, it's spirit comes back to try to avenge it's death from the grave type thing
sweet summit
not only the first one
sick sentinel
Even if you position well you will end up between like two swirling axes at best case and there's a knockback soo
lasts <5 seconds
civic rover
SOMEBODY IS LOSING A HEAD
sweet summit
the play for KR is just to not die before axe bitch or bring pally+dh
also, run safeguard for first boss and axe bitch
sick sentinel
yeah, see, erga knows
primal dune
Had a retard pally tank who popped bubble twice without taunt
sick sentinel
i call her the axe bitch too
primal dune
Boss immediately slaps me twice and I’m dead
civic rover
lol
civic rover
the other week some guildies wanted me to tank like an 11 KR and they wouldn't. kick. anything.
primal dune
One F for every kick after you told them you’ll spell reflect
sick sentinel
i'm scared to play pally because i know for fact i would screw up timing of bubble and LOH and cheat death
primal dune
Playing with my retarded Guildies honestly lower my dps by 2% from missed reflects
sick sentinel
Warrior is giga fun tho
@sick sentinel haha seems like it! Also become a fan of my Tauren warrior 😛 Guess I’m just nervous if I never gonna learn the sb and ip shit lol
civic rover
there's this guy in my guild who said my FH route was wrong and he was like "you forget that i'm also a tank" and i'm like... i have triple your tanks io
sick sentinel
but those blessings are so so nice, i played one vanilla-aq40
primal dune
Lmfao
sweet summit
if you can press iron fur, you can press shield block 👍
primal dune
Had a LFR tank call me garbage because I said I’ll solo tank raden
Btw LFR raden gives you health per stack
So I was padding with TD
civic rover
you can probably solo tank raden at 440 ilvl tbh
primal dune
I was at 1.8M health at 4 stacks
sick sentinel
one of the wost things i got called was a walking trashcan 1/12N R word who should delete his character
primal dune
Are you not?
primal dune
^
civic rover
3 chested a 15 freehold and one of the dps said "slow pulls but whatever"
sick sentinel
wat
primal dune
Didn’t you know if you pulled quicker you could’ve 4 chested?
civic rover
sub 10 minutes?
sick sentinel
uh, for a 15 i wouldn't be surprised if you COULD do it in sub 10
would not surprise me at all
civic rover
yeah maybe
would have to be like nerftanks group or something though bc i'd think the pulls would have to be massive
warm plinth
Maybe. I think the record for MDI was 17 mins on a 19 so seems doable to me lol
sick sentinel
if you can press iron fur, you can press shield block 👍
@sweet summit haha thanks for the support! Guess I probably just have to jump in eh? 😛
jump in
sweet summit
hell yeah
sick sentinel
i'm just waiting for some super secret crap like, you run a +30 junk, then a work in the same day nobody wipes all hard mode and you get like, a job at blizz
or a car
civic rover
lol
i'd watch mdi more if it wasn't just like
2 or 3 insane teams and the rest are just there
primal dune
If blizz would give money to ppl, they won’t be time gating shit like corruption resist
Started a BM hunter
Couldn’t get into 2s with 435 ilvl and 2.2k IO
civic rover
meanwhile my bear that just hit 470 gets the pick of the litter of M+ groups
primal dune
Had more interrupts than all the melee dps combined
Also can’t get in 15s with my 478 in bag fury
civic rover
5k io requires sorry
primal dune
I thought the IO push is suppose to make life easier
civic rover
need rogue/bm/DH for my 15 FH bro cmon
primal dune
That’s where I’m going wrong
Had a kitty do 100k overall on 18 FH
Quite an experience
primal dune
You can meld it in non raid setting
civic rover
he's a kul tiran
sick sentinel
hell yeah
@sweet summit haha guess I just need to decide on the gender... Tauren female or male
sweet summit
female blood elf
upper kindle
Only grandma's play female taurens
primal dune
Non-ironically the racial is too good to not take
knotty fiber
play a thicc worgen or bust
upper kindle
Orc warrior
sick sentinel
Non-ironically the racial is too good to not take
@primal dune really?
primal dune
High tier content it does
civic rover
like >25 keys maybe
main vault
BE is easily best horde m + race
civic rover
something that 99.9% of the playerbase doesn't do
strong forum
even then it wont make a difference, itll just be beneficial
but wont make a difference
primal dune
How do you define difference in this case
strong forum
dying and living
knotty fiber
an action can be beneficial without making a noticeable difference
sick sentinel
Welp maybe it’s first time I should make a be male 😛 not sure if I like female be for prot :/
primal dune
I say you can get more dps because there’s interrupts you can afford to miss, and even if you do miss, shields and damage reductions won’t be a problem
strong forum
whatever floats your boat drak
main vault
Just being able to AoE purge shields in UR/TD is a noticeable difference
sick sentinel
Okay so be it is
primal dune
Female model has an easier time doing the AD snap
knotty fiber
stonks
civic rover
that's literally such a miniscule difference
primal dune
In sub 10 WS key you can also hide in the corner of crates to avoid patrol
civic rover
"for high tier content it does"
knotty fiber
sub 10
civic rover
there's the gnome toy for that
primal dune
That comment is specifically referring to racial
Gender is QoL benefits that can be overcome by being good
sick sentinel
In sub 10 WS key you can also hide in the corner of crates to avoid patrol
@primal dune eh not really gonna be something that will pick it for me 😛 Mostly can’t decide If female or male will look better 😛
primal dune
Meld and aoe purge is literally god tier racials in high M+
Everything else is not as significant, unless it’s a direct dps increase
main vault
The difference in utility of racials is a lot bigger than the difference in dps numbers
Having 9-10 AoE purges a dungeon is not insignificant
chilly brook
@primal dune interrupts dont cost you a global so if you're playing right it shouldn't cost you anything
main vault
Especially in lower keys where the cast is more likely to get through
primal dune
That same interrupt could’ve been used for another spell
chilly brook
Dont get me wrong I love having an aoe purge on my DH
wooden geyser
may i ask why tanks run ineffable truth at rank 1 instead of rank 2?
primal dune
Instead of saving kicks for watery dome, I can kick the water blast to take less damage
chilly brook
But its not like we're in Legion where Arcane Torrent was actually busted
knotty fiber
people run IE at rank 1 because it's more efficient for the cost than R2
primal dune
I can trivialise a 8s invulnerability by having a race
wooden geyser
so ppl will run rank 2 when we get more back corruption?
primal dune
That costs a stun
knotty fiber
yes
chilly brook
You dont say?
stiff oracle
Belf has had so little use for me in bfa. Guinea pig racial >>>>>belf for pushing keys imho.
chilly brook
That's kind of implied in using a stun
knotty fiber
fennec fox aesthetic > dumb pointy eyebrow elf aesthetic
chilly brook
I guess it's a good thing that stuns are better used than not used and that storm bolt is only a 30 second CD
main vault
Vulpera < deleting the game
primal dune
The opportunity cost of using racial is significantly lower than stun or kicks in high keys
sick sentinel
fennec fox aesthetic > dumb pointy eyebrow elf aesthetic
@knotty fiber Don't have vulpera unlocked :/
civic rover
isn't panda the most common prot race in higher keys
civic rover
i remember a bunch of 5.5k+ io guys playing panda
knotty fiber
I'm considering faction swapping my warr to push IO tho
chilly brook
What does that even mean
stiff oracle
Panda is meme
knotty fiber
basically the only reason I haven't already swapped is that I don't have vulpera unlocked 😢
chilly brook
How is spending a global on a racial a much lower opportunity cost...when literally using a in interrupt or stunning accomplishes the same thing
knotty fiber
I hear the community is much larger on horde
chilly brook
@civic rover I would assume theres something to it since vers stacking is a thing that high up and pandas get double food buff i.e. 186 vers from food instead of the 93
knotty fiber
more groups = more chances to push = more push groups to find
civic rover
yeah like the double food buff is pretty good but not super necessary
chilly brook
I mean we already established that you should be kicking water blast instead of letting it go through anyways
A water blast in a high key will kill you
wooden geyser
the double food buff is prety retard proof aka me. but i really hate how pandas look 😄
primal dune
You only have 2-3 melee interrupts in a typical set up
potent anvil
Another thing to consider if you want to play panda, is that if you die then you practically have no racial bonus until you can eat again. And finding 10s to sit down can be rough sometimes when you have to keep moving.
knotty fiber
tbf I just wish there were a non-fat options for pandas >:c
primal dune
Having a belf racial literally saves 2 of those interrupts on blasts
knotty fiber
pandas are super thicc
primal dune
Not aoe
stiff oracle
Wew
primal dune
I’m alliance
stiff oracle
Giga wew
chilly brook
Smh
main vault
Then all of your BE logic doesn’t apply...not just DH
chilly brook
^^^^^
primal dune
I can literally meld every targeted ability as nelf
main vault
I had your back til then, on your own now
chilly brook
Like my man I'm doing keys in the 20 range I dont ever feel like I need aoe purge
Is it nice?
Absolutely
Most of the time though I just purge the only mob that has something with my single target purge that also gives me a small absorb
stiff oracle
This discussion is so... just no
primal dune
We’re not just talking about classes with a purge
chilly brook
And meld is arguably the most busted racial this expansion
primal dune
Allows you to make bigger pulls
stiff oracle
?
civic rover
thats why naowh plays a panda
primal dune
Meld allows you to skip and negate damage completely
chilly brook
Making bigger pulls is limited to so many other things.....
primal dune
But a group with a Belf can make such pulls given the condition applies
chilly brook
What week it is, how good your group is, whether you have CDs, is x mob too much of a risk list goes on
No
sweet summit
what
chilly brook
That's really not the case
sweet summit
i cant do bigger pulls because im a belf
chilly brook
Do you even have a blood elf at max?
primal dune
You can chain pull skeletons next to second UR boss into work and patrol with a belf
sweet summit
i can do what without a belf
chilly brook
Facts
primal dune
Then you lose damage on bone shield
main vault
That’s just the normal pull
chilly brook
Not really?
primal dune
Or take raid damage
sweet summit
its extremely minor mate
sweet summit
only "big" thing i can think of is the watery dome in TD
sweet summit
Blood Elf gang
chilly brook
The damage taken reduction too on a few mobs @sweet summit but again that's easily handled by a DH in both situations
civic rover
then what r u trying to argue lol