protection

[left hatch]

so yah food/flask/hearth is my only clickable

oh nad pull timer

[warm plinth]

And hearth, yeah

[left hatch]

even disenchant has a binding lmfao

[warm plinth]

I use elvui so on the rare occasion I actually have a profession

I use deconstructor mode

[left hatch]

whats dat

goes to google

[warm plinth]

You turn it on, and you can prospect/mill/disenchant/whatever everything by clicking on it

So every thing is just one click

[left hatch]

thats.... super helpful

you remember where in settings this is?

[mortal plinth]

Is normal LSP worth it if I need the survivability?

[left hatch]

if you need it yeh

[warm plinth]

It's a button on the bag part of the addon

[main vault]

My argument would be

[left hatch]

:l never noticed it

[warm plinth]

There should be like a "D" button on there I think?

[left hatch]

tyty

[main vault]

If you only have a normal, you may not be doing a level where you need it

[steep bone]

I think u get deconstructor after u instal Shadow&Light Extension for Elvui

[main vault]

I had to delete S&L

Always gave me dark text

[warm plinth]

Really?

[steep bone]

U gotta config

[main vault]

yeah, all the time

[warm plinth]

Huh, I wonder if it was being conflicted with

[steep bone]

Like quest text?

[main vault]

Id fix, and eventually it came back with update

[warm plinth]

I've used it for a long time and never had that issue

[steep bone]

It’s all black?

[main vault]

Yes

I quit trying

[warm plinth]

Unfortunate

[steep bone]

Then u need to set in options to remove text boldness or how was that called

[main vault]

so I use basic bitch elvui

[warm plinth]

Idk tbh I'm not 100% sure I'd miss S&L if I didn't have it anyway haha

[steep bone]

I can tell u where exactly when I get to pc

[main vault]

Yeah I fixed it

[warm plinth]

The character screen is probably all I really care about

[main vault]

But every update it reverted

So I cba

[left hatch]

character screen i got narcissus for

cause it looks nice

and in the case of corruptions has a really nic functionality of giving exact #'s and %'s to the corruption scaling

[warm plinth]

idk Narcissus looks nice but I'd get annoyed by it guaranteed

[left hatch]

like it gives me the exact % slow of first rank, per tick damage of eyeball etc

which i havn't seen from any other addon

[main vault]

does advanced tooltips not

tbh havent looked

[left hatch]

i wanna say i have advanced tooltips cause i can see PPM and the modified PPM once hasted

and it didn't show shit with corruption

besides adding the corruption name/tier under its effect

[warm plinth]

Corruption Tooltips is what I use

But yeah just does the rank/name

[rotund fjord]

hey guys would you say prot warrs are still best m+ tanks and what about mythic nya?

[left hatch]

what tank is best in raid is largely irrelevent unless yo'ure in WF race

at this point you'll overgear the scary shit long before you have to deal with it

so its fine

[rotund fjord]

Makes sense, how about mythic nya? I guess more of the same however some tanks have a better time right?

[left hatch]

i typod, i meant raid

for M+ were exceptionally good, idk if were the undisputed best still cause Veng has also been performing really well but

were in a gud spot

[warm plinth]

Guardian is a sleeper as well tbh

[rotund fjord]

I thought brew/bdk were also hot but not 100%

[sweet summit]

bdk bad :(

[left hatch]

for M+ bdk is

[rotund fjord]

Ah ok

[left hatch]

oof

and in raid they have utility usage but eh

[main vault]

BDK literal worst

[left hatch]

you bring them for mass grip

[rotund fjord]

Ah right

[left hatch]

thats it

[warm plinth]

BDK struggles once you get past a certain point because things can literally 1-shot them haha

[left hatch]

things can 1-shot them long before they can 1-shot every other tank****

[rotund fjord]

Well basically im picking between a geared prot/pala/bdk, semi geared guardian/veng lol

[warm plinth]

Yeah

[left hatch]

like we do'nt need to versa stack till mid range 20's

dks need to versa stack at like... 18

[main vault]

Id go War or Bear

Bear is super strong

[warm plinth]

Plus if you unlocked mage tower you can be a bearhulk

[rotund fjord]

Fair, probs better for me anyway as i love feral and the gear is almost the same

[left hatch]

disco bear is best bear

do'nt @ me

[rotund fjord]

Unfortunately i didnt at the time...

[warm plinth]

I cba to do balance of power

[rotund fjord]

Can still unlock it?

[left hatch]

hulk bear no

[main vault]

Not Harambear

But the rest yeah

[left hatch]

the cool glowing bear yiss

be bright purple with orange highlights

[warm plinth]

Harambear is best bear

[main vault]

the black pvp one is literal bis

[left hatch]

do they have a ./dance yet?

[undone sun]

rave bear or riot

[main vault]

Yes!

Harambear has a dance now

[rotund fjord]

Hmm how to unlock the glowing bear, i know i could google it but if its faster here xD

[left hatch]

about time

Balance of Power questline

its pretty involved and requires doing nighthold (but you can solo)

[warm plinth]

No reason to rush it, it's gonna take you a while 😂

[left hatch]

yeh its still pretty timegated

[rotund fjord]

Ah that sounds shitty

[warm plinth]

I think you still have to do EN like 4 weeks in a row or something?

[main vault]

Noooo

2

[left hatch]

it detered me from getting that appearance for glaive on hDH

[main vault]

You can almost do it in 1

[warm plinth]

2 weeks for old content still feelsbad

[left hatch]

despite needing it for my xog

[steep bone]

You can almost do it in 1
@main vault just start it few hours before reset

[main vault]

Is true, but then NH will gate you

[still pagoda]

and in raid they have utility usage but eh
@left hatch

My co-tank is BDK

[left hatch]

well hey

everything is viable

[main vault]

oh how did your trial go

[left hatch]

like i said what tank you pick in raid matters only for WF race

warrior is also 'bad' for raids but

who gives a fuck 3 months in

[still pagoda]

tank balance is really nice right now

oh how did your trial go

good

[steep bone]

Kick their dk and replace with me, yes yes

[still pagoda]

No

[steep bone]

[main vault]

Double War

Now that is inting

[sweet summit]

the DREAM

[warm plinth]

Nexii you're supposed to lift your warrior brothers up, not keep them down

[pseudo depot]

When you guys are building your vers builds for high mythics, what is the lowest haste/crit you'll go?

[main vault]

20-22%

[exotic spoke]

I’m still at like 35% haste with my vers. Only about 30% vers though

[upper violet]

thoughts about buying td1

or nah

[pseudo depot]

yes, it fits into seperate kits

[main vault]

If you have the slot and space for it, might as well

[upper violet]

i dont really have a good item for it right now

but i need something real soon because ive been wearing the same 430 td3 gloves for a while

[main vault]

Is there anything else you wanna buy?

[upper violet]

IT r1

a few copies

how much are they

[sweet summit]

4150 or something

[upper violet]

damn i only got 12k

[left hatch]

@pseudo depot dw about crit rating

if yo'ure commiting to the versa build all that matters is haste and versa

and prioritizing them 2 IT1's before you fill the rest with amps

[brazen jetty]

I have 460 VITA charged and 465 REZAN alongside my 475 Humming, which one should i take?

[left hatch]

Vita rezan

er

[pseudo depot]

ty!

[upper violet]

humming vita imo

[left hatch]

vita scale sorry

rezan is arguably on par with scale at equal ilvl

but def not worth an ilvl drop

and vita is just bis for 99% of content frankly

[brazen jetty]

cheers boys 🙂

[main vault]

https://www.wowhead.com/news=316436/chinese-guild-scary-maze-defeats-mythic-nzoth-without-mythic-only-phase?webhook

[sweet summit]

yeah i saw that

[steep bone]

I mean we got aotc in first week without achi and we had to rekill to get it, we were also able to loot again. Im not even concerned

[sweet summit]

insane

[left hatch]

not as cool as the sepeku shaman strats in EP imo

that shit was funny as fuck

[sweet summit]

XD

[left hatch]

and a 30s ashvane fight was 😮

[steep bone]

Sepuku shaman?

[left hatch]

was a trait in EP that if an ally died gave you giga strats

[steep bone]

Ohh

[left hatch]

so a guild stacked a bunch of afflic locks and a few shamans

had the shamans die and incarn to trigger the trait one at a time

and they ended up killing mythic ashvane in like 30s

was nutty

[steep bone]

Lmao

What do we have ptr for if such things are going live

[left hatch]

lol i mean

theres just some stuff blizz can't account for

and stuff like that is such a niche case

its ok when it happens

its an extreme use of what it was intended for

[main vault]

tbf

Noone is PTR testing shamans and Locks

[orchid frigate]

one more to go...

took longer than i expected but not a fan of doing visions

[steep bone]

Change Gloves pls, ruins tmog

[orchid frigate]

hehe well

dont have anything that fits

need some mythic look a like ones

[steep bone]

Just get boe if exist

No tmog or set gives You atleast -25% dps penalty

[orchid frigate]

full set will give me -50% dps penalty

[steep bone]

Its full set anyway isnt it

[main vault]

Full set 2/10

[brazen jetty]

What’s best way to do 5 mask run? As protection or as fury?

[main vault]

Yes

[steep bone]

Id say prot

Doing it as a tank and its just steamroll

[main vault]

At this point any spec can

[brazen jetty]

Thx

[still pagoda]

[gilded niche]

@left hatch sup mate u told me I should get mythic skit spaulders and I just ran him and I looted it

can u now tell me to get the mythic Maut legs?

[left hatch]

you should go get maut lets :d

[steep bone]

@gilded niche you should get sporepod trinket

[left hatch]

oof

thats toxic

[gilded niche]

Im a fury warrior

so Idk what that is

[steep bone]

I legit used it before You prove me im wrong

You as in Discord

[undone sun]

[upper violet]

Hello thyme

[cosmic canyon]

I know it actually says strength but just to exclude anything, Vanguard is not affected by AP or any modifiers other than Str?

obviously stamina as well

[left hatch]

yeh those are the only factors for vangaurd

[cosmic canyon]

ty

would be some nutty double'dippin otherwise

[left hatch]

druids have had some pretty silly double dipping with their mastery

in previous xpacs as well

to the point in legion they had to turn it off on frenzied regen

[torpid echo]

Hey guys, do you have a solution for Zul in KR ? I'm progressing toward all keys timed on 15 but this one just destroys me when I don't have either shield wall or spell reflect up. Any advice (I know a solution would be to stack versatility but I don't have much gear to work around, actually sitting at 18 % versa out of combat) ?

[exotic spoke]

You need to cycle your cooldowns so they don’t overlap.

And be sure your healer is giving you externals and bombing you with heals

[left hatch]

that versa amount is pretty high anyway

grabbing 2 IT 1's for more SR's will help

if all else fails you can kite

[torpid echo]

Ok, I'm only overlapping those two with Ignore pain. I mean, I shield wall, wait for it to end, then use spell reflect

[hoary root]

Will 5 ilvls on a helm help me defensively? Thinking that I’m using nzoth helm with HOD right now

[left hatch]

SR first so its back off cd after SW

depends what you're giving up for it

[torpid echo]

I didn't know I could kite this one !

[hoary root]

I get to choose.

[sweet summit]

nzoth helm and using HoD over BoM??

[hoary root]

I mean bom

[sweet summit]

oh ok

[hoary root]

Nzoth with Bom.

[sweet summit]

if the other helm also has BoM take that helm

if not stick to nzoth

[hoary root]

Doesn’t... vendor helm

Ok.

[left hatch]

just save up for Abyssal Malevolence helm

[sweet summit]

thats what im doing

[upper violet]

Just

[left hatch]

BiS

(i think its even better than the +10 ilvls to get mythic nzoth helm just because of its inner row)

[sweet summit]

OP+IV big

[hoary root]

what traits do you get on that?

[left hatch]

BoM DC OP IV

so its bis for the same reason Vex chest is bis

OP + IV

alongside BoM

[tropic basalt]

first day as prot. rumbling earth or storm bolt for hc/m raid and high m+?

[left hatch]

if yo'ure just picking up the spec rumbling earth

less buttons to worry about

[tropic basalt]

kk

[left hatch]

Stormbolt is great once you have the kit down though for an extra interrupt

[tropic basalt]

is stormbolt even good in raid

[left hatch]

eh

[hoary root]

If I already have DC on my chest. Will it still be worth if I take bloodsport Bom op iv?

[sweet summit]

nah

[left hatch]

im trying to think of a use for it

but i can't

this tier

[tropic basalt]

actually both of those are kinda doodoo, one needs multiple targets, one needs a stunnable target

[sweet summit]

vex maybe?

for the assault thing

[left hatch]

whats the other option on your chest?

and yeh itll still be worth it long term

because BiS is BiS

and ideally you'll get a chest that you don't take DC on

[hoary root]

I’m using desert guardian chest

[left hatch]

if not mythic vex than Mechanized Plate Chassis or Ashvane Wardens Cuirrass

[hoary root]

So it’s DC/CR

[left hatch]

thats a pretty awful chest

[hoary root]

Callous reprisal

[left hatch]

CR is bad

[sweet summit]

id honestly take a 2nd CD there xd

[left hatch]

as is blood sport

[loud shoal]

what was with that surging vitality 2 sheet that was going around is it just worth buying that over a 3 or soemthing?

[left hatch]

the TLDR is it depends on your base rating

and thats what the sheet did

[loud shoal]

yea but it was just comparing 2

[left hatch]

was tell you if it gave you more versa than an amp would

probably compared r2 to v3 because its similar cost?

and if surging 2 > amp 3 then surging 3 will be better as well haha

[sweet summit]

can anyone help me understand whats going on

[left hatch]

math

math is going on

yw

[sweet summit]

like, how do i see whats better

[loud shoal]

read the top of it

[left hatch]

look for the highest #

cell also highlights for you

[sweet summit]

so id want 6x SV2s and 2x vers3s?

[still pagoda]

math is going on [2]

[left hatch]

according to this yeh

but

it also ignored IT 1's

[sweet summit]

yeah

[left hatch]

which from everything iv seen in high keys is mandatory

[sweet summit]

imma buy 2 of em once they're up

[still pagoda]

it also ignored IT 1's
@left hatch

It's a vers spreadsheed

basically choose the best option which will allow for 2xIT1 in the budget

[left hatch]

so lopping off 20 from your budget

[still pagoda]

24*

one IT1 = 12

[left hatch]

the best is 2 amps and 5 procs

with what you got rn

yeh its 24 but

working with the best i can rn D:

with dis here spreadsheet

[still pagoda]

same

i think i'm gonna pick up 2 IT1's next week

if they will come back ofc

next few weeks are just ughhhh for pushing

[tropic basalt]

can you guys help me make a prot set for m raid/high m+? im just starting my prot offspec now

running a top gear sim rn so you can click run again

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/woNjpfh2q2o5QjRB5WVP61

[sweet summit]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gzyDhf2f3o4y8QrLhoRN3t

@tropic basalt

[tropic basalt]

ty :)

cant get exactly that without fucking up my fury spec but i very much appreciate it 👍

[sweet summit]

the gems/enchants are minor

can just keep that as crit tbh

but the traits are kinda big

[tropic basalt]

azerite traits will also be a pain

yeah

maybe eventually ill get 2 of each piece lol

[sweet summit]

yeah

raid azerite is good for prot so if you can get like nzoth head/skitra shoulders/vex chest youre good

[tropic basalt]

will farm tyvm

is modular platinum plating worth keeping

over gore block or smth

[sweet summit]

no

[tropic basalt]

kk

[sweet summit]

scrap plating

[tropic basalt]

what about corrupted glad safeguard

ill hold onto it for ilvl appear but yeah

[sweet summit]

trinket from wrathion or rezans eye can be used over block

[tropic basalt]

kk

[sweet summit]

nzoth trinket if you need a defensive trinket

[tropic basalt]

assume the same goes for this

[sweet summit]

nah

[tropic basalt]

i mean like thats not worth keeping

[sweet summit]

block and vita is better

[tropic basalt]

ty

[still pagoda]

anything is better than PvP trinkets outside of their main case use

[sweet summit]

there is one good pvp trinket, if you're into vers stacking

[still pagoda]

RIP +19SotS

[sweet summit]

[still pagoda]

pug healers are garbo

and a pure gamble

[sweet summit]

yeh

[still pagoda]

like

my 2k rio pally guildie does much more and better

[tropic basalt]

haste gem over strength gem?

[still pagoda]

then a 3.2k rio pug

[sweet summit]

yeah

[still pagoda]

haste haste and again haste

[tropic basalt]

kk

[still pagoda]

MOAR

[sweet summit]

haste is better this late into the xpac and with corruptions and shit

[still pagoda]

^

[sweet summit]

but its not wrong to use str gem

[tropic basalt]

what % is good %

[still pagoda]

especially with TD

[sweet summit]

any%

[still pagoda]

22% is minimum, but you want as much as you can grab

[sweet summit]

there is no set % you need

[tropic basalt]

im at 48 rn

as a start

not bad i guess

[still pagoda]

GOOD

[sweet summit]

thats good

[still pagoda]

48 with ItF?

[tropic basalt]

my crit on fury is lower lmfao

[sweet summit]

but thats with into the fray stacks

[tropic basalt]

uhhhhhh

idk what that is lmao

cant answer

[still pagoda]

i have 59% with Into the Fray stacks and Exp2

[sweet summit]

your level 15 talent

[tropic basalt]

oh

yeah

not with stacks

just base

[still pagoda]

👍

GOOD

[tropic basalt]

im just sitting in trade district rn

pog cool

[still pagoda]

if no stacks ofc

[sweet summit]

are you sure? o.O

[still pagoda]

you can keep vers as such

[tropic basalt]

oh wait

i have 5 stacks

feelsdankman

[still pagoda]

then it's meh

[sweet summit]

yeah thats what i thought xD

[still pagoda]

need more

[tropic basalt]

i assumed they fell off out of combat

[sweet summit]

nop

[still pagoda]

it's not really a problem

[tropic basalt]

oh wait yeah its the one where allies are near

[still pagoda]

but having more haste is nice

[tropic basalt]

frick

[sweet summit]

yeah, allies/pets count towards it

[tropic basalt]

yeah base haste is 29% rip

[sweet summit]

thats fine

[still pagoda]

29% is not bad

that is literally the amount i was using back in ABT

[tropic basalt]

havent switched traits yet

[still pagoda]

:D

[tropic basalt]

i added the one haste gem to my wrists but im not gonna change the one on the waist

cause fury is still main spec

but yeah

[still pagoda]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5RoMWjg3TI meanwhile i'm looking at this and just assuming that i won't really push into keys higher than +22/23(if at all) with my attitude and current schedule

[steep bone]

How do people survive very high tyr first boss in td?

On ally u can just meld

[sweet summit]

defensives/mobility abilities

for example you can heroic leap and dodge it

[steep bone]

I guess its fight with time than boss because of cooldown cds

Wait rly?

[sweet summit]

yeah

[steep bone]

I thought only things like blink work

[sweet summit]

heroic leap, roll, blink, disengage, grappling hook etc

can avoid it with good timing

[steep bone]

There was WA with timer that tells u exactly when to blink

[sweet summit]

there is one for leap too i think

[steep bone]

I think it works for everything

[loud shoal]

vanish/ feign, charge

[steep bone]

Also is it wise to charge target whos gonna get uphevaled to reduce his dmg taken, speaking about people that refuses to dodge it

Or i need to pick that talent

[sweet summit]

youd need safeguard i think

[steep bone]

Oh

[sweet summit]

and you would want to intercept early and dip out asap

[steep bone]

Any dungs where its good to take it?

[sweet summit]

or you might get cought too

[loud shoal]

you would need to pick the talent. If you are doing high enough keys people should know the timing, if not people shouldn't die so

[sweet summit]

uhhh, all of them?

[steep bone]

Wait rly

I always played crackling

[loud shoal]

the only dungeon you really play safeguard in is KR

[steep bone]

For first boss i guess?

[loud shoal]

I mean you can play it in any dungeon if you want but

KR for first boss and 3rd boss/ 2nd boss (sometimes)

[tropic basalt]

yo i heard theres graphs here about rotations, where can i see those

[steep bone]

So another question, for what bosses/abilities is good to charge someone?

[sweet summit]

freehold vs eudora and p1 kragg
underrot tantrum
KR as stated above
off the top of my head

[loud shoal]

first boss FH during first phase so they don't get shot 2x in a row and eudora FH

[steep bone]

And thats for tyran right?

[loud shoal]

you don't need safegaurd for eudora or first boss first p1, intercept works

[sweet summit]

fair

[loud shoal]

it only matters in high keys

low keys people aren't going to get one shot or two shot

[inland silo]

crackling is pretty useless though imo

if theres any use at all for the other two you might as well pick them

[tropic basalt]

what is this ability

[sweet summit]

orc racial

[tropic basalt]

shie ok

[ripe shale]

When it says "base vers rating" on the SV vs Versatile spreadsheet, is it without proc/buff/essence ?

Cause 2500 base on gear seems pretty high

[strong forum]

base is without any procs

top tanks have 4k+ vers base nowadays

*with versatiles equipped

[ripe shale]

I have only 1k5 with vers on all slots 😮

[strong forum]

[ripe shale]

(without gems)

[left hatch]

gems

is a huge factor

thats another 600 vers

[ripe shale]

yup but not 1k

[strong forum]

im at 2.4k with 2 versatiles

and missing 2 sockets

[ripe shale]

with versatile nav, cns major and aegis i'm getting pretty high tho :d

[distant crystal]

also crackle4lyfe

having your first clap miss a mob or two sucks balls

[steep bone]

Hmm, is it better to go for TD5 or get one IT and stay with TD4? Considering im doing for now just 15-17s

[strong forum]

im running TD5 + IT1

[ripe shale]

same

[analog swift]

results of IT1 nom?

[strong forum]

?

[analog swift]

right now, td 6 + exp 3

but thinking about IT

does it double interact w/ rage?

[strong forum]

yes

[analog swift]

wow

def worth I assume

[distant crystal]

if you get an AM proc during IT

[analog swift]

I have avatar up soooo much

[distant crystal]

you basically get 1.3 AM proc

[strong forum]

IT is the best corruption now to get

[analog swift]

wow

ok

good to know

I wonder if 2 would be overkill

[strong forum]

na 2 turned out to be the meta

[analog swift]

interesting

I know naowh did that

there is a kinda breakpoint

[distant crystal]

2 as in 2 1's right

[strong forum]

2x IT1

[analog swift]

where you have avatar up so much and more IT isn't a benefit

[strong forum]

first it was discussed that more than IT1 is overkill

[distant crystal]

i mean it's a benefit for so many things

[steep bone]

Thing is i don't have enough resistance yet for that

[analog swift]

yeah of course

[distant crystal]

you can SR every cast on rixxa

[analog swift]

that's what really got me into it

i mean if you get a proc right?

[distant crystal]

with enough IT/luck

😄

[analog swift]

what's the proc rate

1ppm

[strong forum]

1ppm

[analog swift]

gotcha

didn't buy the first round

and never got it

because 1) wasn't sure the AM interaction

2. wasn't sure if it would be nerfed

[distant crystal]

i have an IT 2

need to buy a 1

[analog swift]

gross

[distant crystal]

should prob scrap it tbh but

when IT1x8 + IT2x1 is meta

[analog swift]

ran a near full verse build on monk this week holy fuck what a difference it makes

[distant crystal]

i'll be like 12.5% there

[analog swift]

LOL

in an 18 sots was able to do two full rounds of boss and 1 intermission sans healer

[marble cipher]

In the Nerftank vid, what is making second boss in Siege not jumping away with withdraw?
Is it CnS major root that's keeping her from jumping, since you can basically keep that up all the time during avatar? Or something else?

[strong forum]

ye

but its Very finnicky timing

[marble cipher]

because there's tiny gaps where the root will not be on her or something I guess?

[strong forum]

yes and you need to root her on the very second she would try to jump away

ring of peace also works

and knockbacks

[marble cipher]

yeah, tried that, couldn't get it right 😄

(ring)

[strong forum]

but its an incredibly small timeframe

[steep bone]

im pretty sure that if u have hunter tar trap does the job

[strong forum]

na you literally only have like a split second

[ripe shale]

he's talking about withdraw

not the jump

[marble cipher]

^

the "back jump" only needs a slow that's true

[strong forum]

oh that

[marble cipher]

but I was talking about the boat jump indeed

so your answer was the one I was looking for @strong forum

[sharp night]

guessing binding doesn't work

[dapper sundial]

does 480 vex chest outperform 480 ashvane in keys? Mostly doing 18-20 keys currently

[left hatch]

yes

OP and IV outweigh MS

[dapper sundial]

IV is pretty busted for an inner tbh

[left hatch]

wait im thinking skittra shoulders

lemme check whats on vex chest rq

[dapper sundial]

yeah ashvane has OP and vex doesnt

[left hatch]

mmmm

itll be really close

[dapper sundial]

i see top wars running vex but prob plays into vers coming from HoD

[left hatch]

yeh

from what iv heard (ppl in hear running 24+'s) the CH chest is the go-to

and im pretty sure the vex chest is for IV

[dapper sundial]

yeah as of now tho im stuck with ashvane with MS vs vex chest

yeah thats what im thinkin

[left hatch]

id stick with MS for the keys you're doing?

the aoe pull shield is fine

and Haste is still way more valuable than versa in 20's

[dapper sundial]

tbh im tempted to use vex just to avoid reforging off arms after raid each week

[left hatch]

oh then by all means

use vex

fuck reforging lol

[dapper sundial]

i imagine they gotta be super close

[left hatch]

the diff between the 2 is really feelycrafty

so yah

[dapper sundial]

yeah i got picked up by this guild as arms instead of prot and the reforging is a nightmare

[left hatch]

but yeh if yo'ure looking for 'true' bis or w/e

abbysal helm, skittra shoulders, CH chest

[dapper sundial]

just need to get cara shoulders so i can keep my mecha shoulders with prot traits lol

gotcha

[left hatch]

skittra has OP IV as well

[dapper sundial]

hmm thats true

[left hatch]

its too juicy to give up for CH

[dapper sundial]

skit hates me

got a mythic vita before skit shoulders

lulw

[left hatch]

well hey thats still big value

gz

[dapper sundial]

oh yeah dont get me wrong i was mega hype

[solemn venture]

so um....how do u deal with the raider on a 22 sob on alliance in the first boss's room? we tried mass entangle, imprison on the bomber but the hook always grips a random ranged player and 1 shots them.

[dapper sundial]

when it comes to getting the x2 IT 1, is it worth running it with TD for mid level keys or wait until vers stack for high keys?

i imagine the tclap every global feels nice

[strong forum]

IT is always worth running

[left hatch]

iv been running it on lower keys

just cause its fun

[dapper sundial]

id have to drop a TD but i think its worth

[left hatch]

is it as good as TD stacking in 18/19? eh

[dapper sundial]

the cooldown reduc in general is nice

[left hatch]

yeh

makes things a bit safer

[dapper sundial]

yeah and doesnt require a full commitment like vers amp stack

[left hatch]

plus it has a lot more value

than versa does in low keys

theres a reason the general statline for M+ is Haste>crit

[dapper sundial]

yeah most of the damage spikes in low keys is avoidable

or can mitigate effectively

[left hatch]

mhm

1 water blast aint gonna kill you ina 20

[dapper sundial]

facts

still hurts tho

did a 19 sots yesterday

rip mind is bad vibes

[left hatch]

yeh but that versa amp also not gonna save you from missing tons in a row

its not a buffer against stupid haha

or at least THAT big a buffer

[dapper sundial]

yeah the comp was pretty suboptimal for interrupts

with lock and mage

[left hatch]

oof

[dapper sundial]

so i shoulda avoided doing bridge with my route tbh

pug life

[left hatch]

only way youd get me in a shrine with that

is if i had a shaman healer

[dapper sundial]

holy priest

xd

[left hatch]

i refuse to touch shrine w/o 3 melee cd interrupts

[dapper sundial]

2nd boss went clean honestly

mostly just bc big dam

[left hatch]

too many bad memories of trying to help guildy casters and getting stuck on 2nd boss

[dapper sundial]

but rip mind got me like

[left hatch]

them IT's tho

you know how much you can pump on that fight

with 2 its

😄

[dapper sundial]

yeah and feels better than TD

[left hatch]

i think rip mind is 3rd boss right?

[dapper sundial]

clappin

[left hatch]

or is that shadow bolt

[dapper sundial]

the casters on the bridge

[trail rune]

rip mind is the bridge yeh

[left hatch]

w/e his spam cast is

[dapper sundial]

deathspeakers or somethin

[left hatch]

ahhhh yeh

[dapper sundial]

the void bolt hurts but

rip mind is RIP

[left hatch]

those just suck cause fucking everything needs to be interrupted

[trail rune]

as the name suggests

[left hatch]

one thing kills everyone

another just makes them immune

fun

[trail rune]

rip mind should be prio there imo

[left hatch]

yeh living > doing damage

[dapper sundial]

yah and the IT x2 cd reduction for spell reflect

[left hatch]

but still a huge time waste to miss the others

[dapper sundial]

means its echo farm time

bc yknow i gotta buy a million exp 3

for raid

[trail rune]

i gave up on trying to gear all 3 specs

[left hatch]

if you want a defensiveboi build for your 20s

[dapper sundial]

feelsbadman that IT 1 is with exp 3

[left hatch]

its great for that too

id rather do 2 IT's and some exp in a 20

than start on the versa push

[dapper sundial]

yeah i feel like my deaths at this level are due to misplay

[trail rune]

cos im not grinding 8 vers amps, 8 haste amps and 8 crit amps

[dapper sundial]

not shit like "well i just died after doing everything"

[muted spoke]

what to add for low keys (under 20), another TD 1 or IF1?

[left hatch]

IF

get it in there now, cause youll use it at every level above as well

[trail rune]

2x IF 1

[left hatch]

but imho, versa might have saved you from some of those deaths

but if a mistake kills you

[muted spoke]

is it selling next tuesday?

[left hatch]

you'll learn better from it

[trail rune]

Yes

[muted spoke]

kk will do

[left hatch]

learn where yo'ure fucking up now cause higher keys you'll need near perfect play AND the versa cushion

and itll be more frustrating to learn later rather than sooner

my thoughts on it anyway

[trail rune]

stuff like consistently landing the snaps in atal is huge

[dapper sundial]

yeah i just started playing bfa this patch and learning some of the tricks in the dungs has been a pain

[shadow vale]

does anyone have the link for the magic damage cheat sheet?

[trail rune]

the amount of times i've falled off in 22+ keys and depleted because of it

[left hatch]

you mean the reflect/block sheet?

[trail rune]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRvMMhBT1xyvECDvAlxXirfLYtgzYZ18vjY3zRyA4LU7NgVg5Vmj-MroMT5W6i94q0aYNodyer0hbZ3/pubhtml#

[dapper sundial]

such as the fact i coulda skipped bridge in shrine but walking on ledge to get initiates for windspeaker and avoid bolster

didnt know prior to the dungeon

by*

[shadow vale]

ty salty

[trail rune]

yw

[left hatch]

you can also just taunt the little guys around windspeaker

and seperate them

they arn't a linked pack

[dapper sundial]

yeah i didn't know at the time unfortunately

nice to know tho for pugs especially

bc bridge is lethal

[left hatch]

yeh

those minibnosses are worth a decent amount of %

learning to cheese the storm ele with SR too

can be a big time saver

[dapper sundial]

so with the ele

do i go in and everyone los

[left hatch]

and the eels at the end don't bolster (and irrc don't burst either)

[dapper sundial]

and reflect the shock?

[left hatch]

yeh it guerentees the shock will go on you

if everyone else is oor

[dapper sundial]

dope

[left hatch]

and you reflect it for big value

[dapper sundial]

so i pretty much just solo the dude

[left hatch]

yeahp

[dapper sundial]

and everyone stay back

interesting

on the runecarver can i just taunt out the initiates as well?

[trail rune]

no

[left hatch]

no they're a linked pack

i skip him

[dapper sundial]

alright yeah ill prob use ob to skip him without rogue

[trail rune]

yeah runecarver fuckin smacks on higher keys

[left hatch]

cause the only successful pulls iv had w/ him on boslter have needed a druid mass root

[dapper sundial]

grab ele + pack behind

[left hatch]

and even then is sketch

[dapper sundial]

for big count

i hate runecarver

[left hatch]

yah, i clear up to runecarver

then backtrack to ob to skip him

then do pre-bridge pack -> ele- etc

[dapper sundial]

tbh just anything to get out of bridge + the enforcer packs in shrine

is fine with me

deep smash hits deep fam

[trail rune]

i always wondered why no one pulls those packs

until i did it on a 21

sometimes you gotta learn the hard way

[left hatch]

yeh its really ironic that pugs struggle super hard with the ritualists in lower keys and the enforcers are free

and then you get to the 20's and it reverses

[dapper sundial]

yep i feel you

[left hatch]

the skeles no bolster and the ritualists do nothing with good interrupts

[dapper sundial]

learned my lesson with bridge packs lmao

deep smash claps so hard tho with the enforcer packs its bonkers

can reflect one

then wall and pray

[sick sentinel]

hi i am prot trying to set a group for workshop, is ret with full masterful any good for single target too

[trail rune]

the way i'd describe ret is melee fire mage

[left hatch]

im pretty sure raid rets go Masterful and IF

so yes

[sick sentinel]

ineffible truth?

[left hatch]

yahsorry IT

[sick sentinel]

okay then ill accept this guy, thanks

ret paladins have always always had it good

what

I don't remember a time where ret was OP in both contents being M+ and raid

actually I don't remember them being good at all

xd

[left hatch]

i hear rets complaining a lot

mostly how limp dick their damage is outside of wings

so they just play the wings waiting game

[sick sentinel]

you know part of how i became a clicker too, is in vanilla i was a ret pally

you ain't gotta do crap for that. buff a person, put on ur seal, judgement auto

[onyx vessel]

is there such a thing as a vers calculator

[still pagoda]

just a spreadsheet made by one guy who deserves a lot of praise for ACTUALLY DOING THE FUCKING MATH

@onyx vessel

[onyx vessel]

do you have the link

[still pagoda]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rTitGB3dIVZcQGIMXDt7MGuS5RUzsW2EkI7OQF_AmOw/edit

sure

account that you hold off 24 corruption for 2xIT1 indefinitely

so pick the best option that you see

[sick sentinel]

my buddy got pissed off because he bought 20k worth of versa 1 and next day versa 2 came out

[still pagoda]

i'm gonna buy a shitton of TD on my monk

and then expedients and IT1's for MW

Time to kickweave

CHAOS REIGNS

[sick sentinel]

i got 15k or so of them but i an't spendin it on shit till TD 1/2/3 comes round or IFT1

why would you ever buy rank 1

lmao

Buy rank 2 for wiggle room in corruption

[still pagoda]

^

[sick sentinel]

and the rest rank 3

because corruption point valu

[still pagoda]

i would buy R2's as a placeholder

[sick sentinel]

the corruption point value of the rank 1 and 2 are worst than it is with 3

[still pagoda]

and then stockpile for when R3's come up on vendor

[sick sentinel]

rank 2 is 30 points and rank 1 is 12, i got in crap for it because i gave it to DH for vendor loot spec

[sharp night]

td2 and td3 cost the same per corruption

it's 10k/15k

[still pagoda]

the corruption point value of the rank 1 and 2 are worst than it is with 3
@sick sentinel

I would say corruption point per amount of slots we can corrupt

bruh

i'm broke

on echoes

on my monk

[sharp night]

you aren't going to fill all your slots with corruption anyway if you use td2 so it doesn't matter

even at endgame you get max 7 td, so it doesn't matter if you waste some echoes buying td1 for flexibility

you can do td2/2/3 or td1/3/3 or td2/2/1/1/1

it's all the same

[sick sentinel]

If i ever wannabetheguy and gitgud

gotta learn somehow

[strong forum]

Wanna be the boshi

[still pagoda]

^

[sick sentinel]

gotta listen to every piece of advice there is

[still pagoda]

[left hatch]

oof do'nt mention that, send me into nam flashbacks

[strong forum]

vvvvvvv anyone

[still pagoda]

The Oath Meal box boss

[left hatch]

vvvvvv didn't hold a candle to IWBTG or IWBTB

and neither does jump king

despite ppl comparing it to them

[strong forum]

I only watched the speed runs, but still quite something

[still pagoda]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPAYhzmD7-E

this by itself is QUIET SOMETHING

[sick sentinel]

OMFG you reminded me of a game i played years back and it made me extremely angry very difficult

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QCIEFXft_8

[left hatch]

see ppl watch that and go "psh i could do that"

and then can't get passed the first screen

[sick sentinel]

this game made me mald

[left hatch]

i was proud i killed mike tyson in IWBTG when i was a wee lad

[sick sentinel]

IWTBTG is leagues beyond my skill

[still pagoda]

and then can't get passed the first screen
@left hatch

Exactly

it's like with PoE

[sick sentinel]

that viking game is much harder than it looks, just trust me okay.

[still pagoda]

Pffff i can do that

can't get past Act 5 Kitava

[left hatch]

is the viking game supposed to be a rage game tho?

or just sposed to be hard

like the "dark souls of insert genre here

[sick sentinel]

kinda, but it's like dark souls just gotta gitgud

[still pagoda]

honestly

last boss of IWBTB seems like a thing that inspired blizz to make Mythic KJ

[sick sentinel]

no, what that problem was is that you get access to new abilites when you get armor, but if you get hit, you lose the armor and you can't do crap for attacks.

[still pagoda]

the same energy of rage rollercoaster boss

[left hatch]

yeh theres a big line between 'get gud' and 'get gud and spend hours in exceedingly precise trial and error platforming'

and then theres crap like jump king

or octodad/qwop

where its supposed to be meh controls

[sick sentinel]

it was platforming, but it was also alot of combat raging too

bosses take mulitple attempts to figure out what to do even some times

[still pagoda]

typical of platformers

[left hatch]

yeh im ok when the controls are tight

and its hard/frustrating in that way

or like cuphead

perfect example of a getgud game thats still fair

[still pagoda]

^

but IWBTB

it's a pure madness

[left hatch]

its madness but idk

i wouldn't call it fair but

at least shit functions the same way everytime

your jump always goes the same amount

getting over it is so much more... loose?

idk how to describe it

that if boshy didn't have the tight controls it did it just wouldn't work

where the inconsistency is what makes getting over it hard

and thats just not fun to me

[still pagoda]

same

i'm better off learning trem picking with the picking technique i have at last instead of spending my time playing boshy

[sick sentinel]

i'm still pretty good at quake3

[buoyant scroll]

jo quick question what is ur usually uptime on avatar?

[still pagoda]

around 70%

[left hatch]

yeh i do'nt have a thingy up rn but

70+%

[buoyant scroll]

so 64% is then bad ?

[left hatch]

nah, we probably just have more haste than you

or lucid boosts it a bit

also depends on dungeons

[buoyant scroll]

30% haste and have lucid

[left hatch]

yeh i got bit more haste than you

[sick sentinel]

when i was like 25, i booted up my pc and joined a random server, and was moping floor with everyone and i think it turned out i unironically joined a quakecon because i got messaged about it years later saying oh i remember you from this one time.

[left hatch]

and iv been starting to use IT consistently

whichll boost it big time

[sick sentinel]

good old quake 3 arena

[left hatch]

lmfao

[buoyant scroll]

it?

[left hatch]

Ineffable truth

[sick sentinel]

ineffable truth

[buoyant scroll]

ahh thanks#

[sick sentinel]

proc CD% reduction for x seconds

[left hatch]

2 IT 1's are an essential part of any balanced defensive build (:

and just damn fun

[still pagoda]

my monk's gear is not that bad now actually

though i still lack corruption

to even run a bit of HoD

[humble agate]

whats a good essence setup for lower keys?

i have VoP major with CnS/Sotw/Lucid minors atm

[still pagoda]

what you're running is perfect for them :D

i would trade SotW for something like Sphere if you don't need 10 res right now

[humble agate]

cool, thanks man!

and as far as traits go, is there a priority system or are we focused on getting 3 bastions/1DC

[still pagoda]

literally it

1xDC is the only one worth ilvl technically

around 10-15

3xBoM and 1xDC is optimal

good fillers are mostly generics

HoD, CwH, MS

you can also run IF and BfI if you don't have access to generic fillers for last 2 slots or running with a low ilvl shield

[humble agate]

aahh awesome, thanks!

[analog swift]

So I'm doing 20-22 keys (most keys timed at 20) for those that have fucked around w/ full verse how has it turned out?

I don't ever really have a problem surviving outside standard shit like zul last boss ML etc.

so it's generally not a survivability issue but will cover up mistakes

[sullen hinge]

How does IT work. Rank 1 is 30%
Rank 2 is 50%
If I wear 2 x rank 1 is 60%?

[sick sentinel]

Yes

[sullen hinge]

Ooo. How high would I actually need? Just IT 1 or 2?

[marsh smelt]

Going to tank M Nyalotha for the first time. Is there a standard set of essences for the first 3 bosses?

[sick sentinel]

Should i be intercepting on cooldown to something for rage generation?

[steel frost]

versatile 2 any good?

[proven vault]

Guys haste vers or haste crit with leech. Basically asking how valuable is leech?

[mortal brook]

same ilvl?

[proven vault]

Yeah

Sorry for late answer

[sick sentinel]

if you have vers amps

like a lot of them

stay haste vers

if not, go haste crit

[proven vault]

How many item levels is leech worth

[undone sun]

None

You don't drop for leech, it's a good bonus if it's same ilevel

[proven vault]

idk about that

[undone sun]

Ok

[proven vault]

LOL

[jovial ice]

So i dont understand a hell lot about gear, but on the range of 24s-26s keys, would it be better to weak the wrathion sword with a socket or carapace mace without a socket? And what if they both had sockets? On my sims the carapace mace only gives me a 0.8% dps increase, but i lose 2%(around 250 after corruption input) verse from dropping the sword

[sick sentinel]

Since amps became a thing, you don't always go for ilvl

if you have like a 465 haste vers or a 475/485 crit mastery

you pick the haste vers

with haste/vers amps

People need to stop saying ilvl always

as it's not right

[proven vault]

Both naowh and nerftank use the cara mace and they wear like 6 vers amps

[jovial ice]

yeah

even fam and yoda and etc use it

but idk, just trying to think if it is worth or not

[main vault]

@undone sun LOL

[ripe shale]

cause its a weap

[undone sun]

🙄

[dapper fjord]

Are haste multipliers tested? Can warrior have 100% uptime on block?

[left hatch]

i mean you can math out how much that would take

166ish% is the 100% sb threshold

[novel storm]

Would it be better to run 2x ineffeble truth over another rank of twilight? for tanking ~20 keys.

[left hatch]

so you can work hack from there the rating tht would require

yes

[novel storm]

Also at what point should i consider stacking vers? I've tanked a few 21s now and i feel pretty invincible tbh.

[mortal brook]

25ish

[left hatch]

24/25 is when versa becomes critical

basically when you start being 1-shot despite near perfect play

is when versa becomes better than haste/crit

[novel storm]

So if i don't have to run nzoth trinket i shouldn't even consider starting to stack vers?

[left hatch]

has nothing to do with nzoth trinket

[novel storm]

mhm

Am i trolling for not running it in ~20 keys?

[left hatch]

oh nevermind, im blind and saw "to run" in your sentence

yeh basically

until you get to the point where like 1 water blast obliterates you

[novel storm]

but my haste 😢

[left hatch]

even an expedient will do more for you defensively

and you arn't trolling not running LSP

if you do'nt need the absorb you do'nt need it

[novel storm]

ah

[left hatch]

its super powerful, and if you can make spicier pulls wearing it go for it

if not and itd just be sitting around unused

double haste op

[novel storm]

I've tried using it in a few dungeons but i end up just not using it cause i feel like i'm taking no damage. And it feels like im trolling if im taking it for like 1 or 2 moments.

[left hatch]

exactly, if you don't use it

no reason to have it equipped

[ivory elbow]

any weakauras for kick that works with ineffable truth?

[novel storm]

is IT really good for prot war?

[left hatch]

2 of rank 1 are yes

[novel storm]

how come you need 2 rank 1s for it to be good?

[left hatch]

hits a sweet spot of letting you have 3 avatars back to back with lucid, 2 back to back outside lucid, lowers SB to sub 6s when procced etc

[novel storm]

i do like avatar uptime 🤤

[ivory elbow]

rank 1 is less corruption

you get 30% from rank 1 and 12 corruption

[novel storm]

so 2x rank 1 IT is better offensively than twilight + you get the defensive benefit as well?

[ivory elbow]

from rank 2 its 50% and 30 corruption

[left hatch]

its not better offensively

[novel storm]

o

it sounds like you get a lot of defensive benefit from it at least

[left hatch]

outside of niche cases like more SR's for Rixxa, 3rd boss shrine etc

yeh its very valuable defensively

[ivory elbow]

well

more spell reflects

[novel storm]

guess i'll aim to go td5 and 2x it 1 and sit on 59 corruption

[ivory elbow]

did a 21 shrine third boss i did 10 mill to it with spell relf

xD

[left hatch]

that was my point, the more SR's make it better offensively

[ivory elbow]

it was monkaShake

[left hatch]

in those circumstances

[calm magnet]

So is td the only good replacement for exp 3?

Im currently running exp3