nothing worse than doing keys with dps who don't understand skittish holy fuck
#protection
burnt iron
chilly brook
Dont even look at vers until 25s
vagrant vale
does it significantly lower dps?
steep bone
how do you run ad this week, i've been thinking of going priestess > rezan > volkall
chilly brook
It's a significant lowering of DPS compared to TD stack in a dungeon
vagrant vale
Yeah I focus mainly on m+
vagrant vale
k cool, thanks c:
chilly brook
Yep
orchid frigate
hmm uninstalled ora3 and now i dont get a sound for readycheck anymore 😦
sterile edge
I dont know what is TD, could you say me the meaning, please?
amber siren
@sterile edge twilight devastation
sterile edge
ahhh ok, thx Rybie
sick sentinel
Shrine is fine, if your group sucks tho the dungeon sucks
upper violet
it was a bad grp
sick sentinel
Actually a really doable key if your group isn’t stinky
sick sentinel
Where? Bursting isn’t too bad except maybe the first pull or non elites before second boss?
sick sentinel
Just pull the packs before second boss one at a time and pull the first room as two pulls if you have to. But a healer should be able to reliably out heal 4-5 stacks
craggy harness
hmm, can't seem to find right things to google to get the website with the current max wrathion corruption resistance you could get with malefic cores. Anyone got it handy?
toxic gyro
The more vers I have the more I enjoy tanking as prot. You can pull pull more packs at the same time too and shift kicks a bit
Like In shrine before 2nd boss im able to pull all 3 packs and just kick tempests and ignore kicking water attendants. Only use stun on one so I don’t eat 2 blasts at the same time.
ionic fern
If you can ignore kicking multiple water blasts then you are not doing high enough keys to warrant running Vers builds.
sick sentinel
Vers will not save you to the point where you can just ignore water blasts
scrolls down Oh mwahi already responded
toxic gyro
I only don’t get hit by multiple at once. With 3 packs pulled together you have 4 attendants. I reflect both blasts on first cast, stun and eat the other one with demo, and just keep interrupting at least one with stuns, gouge, blind
Worked pretty good on 24, maybe would have to do it differently on 26 or higher but My group probably won’t go that high
chilly brook
Bruh your healer must hate you
warm plinth
@craggy harness The max corruption resistance will be 125 from the cloak + 10 from the essence, or 135 total.
craggy harness
yeah, but i meant for the week
i suppose i can just dial back and make an excel sheet for myself
warm plinth
If you're caught up this week, it'll be 86
left hatch
86 +10
craggy harness
but i swore there was table out there 🙂 Thank you
chilly brook
And how are you reflecting both blasts on their first cast?
Unless they're literally going off at the same exact time
And hit at the same exact time
toxic gyro
They are perfectly synced on first cast and it reflects both
chilly brook
As far as the rest of the casts you should have enough kicks to not need to eat any
toxic gyro
Tempests are pretty hard to dodge when you have 3packs
eager fractal
445 urchin is better for m+ than 475 sporepod right?
strong forum
only because sporepods are 📉
upper violet
strong forum
sick sentinel
cosmic canyon
"This week" being Tuesday onwards? Like, just started? I mean 86 cap.
worthy cradle
simc well maintained for prot?
chilly brook
I dont see how having 3 packs makes tempest dodging any more difficult
warm plinth
Yeah, the only place you pull multiples of that mob have a lot of maneuvering room
sick sentinel
We should have pulled all three of those packs when I was on my monk
warm plinth
@cosmic canyon Just started in NA, yes
chilly brook
Lol
sick sentinel
I think we could have done it
still pagoda
warm plinth
IT'S PURE CAPACITANCE GEL
orchid frigate
those demo tentacles aggro seems to work a bit differently
warm plinth
How so
orchid frigate
i have to taunt them even if ive been solo on hitting them but someone else has been close when theyve spawned
chilly brook
I dont seem to have that issue
warm plinth
Well if they spawn and your melee are there, they are going to melee whoever got aggro first until you hit them.
And slam is a cleave so if your melee stand in it, that's on them
chilly brook
Which is how normal aggro works
warm plinth
Yerp
tight whale
Any Advice Bolstering Fortified Grievous Week. Thinking about USing conflict as mayor and Versa set.
strong forum
🤷♂️ nothing special
sick sentinel
Just another week
strong forum
like you dont build gear / essences for specific weeks
pallid berry
Is gushing wounds worth on a tank?
strong forum
no its not
pallid berry
Shame
last mason
i feel like everytime we dont have tyrannical, we have bolstering
just feels that wat
always some aids affix
upper violet
Same
daring bay
This is why Rio score needs to change, it should scale with affix difficulty so there arent these obvious "dead weeks" vs "push weeks"
upper violet
Honestly i miss the legion dungeon design
Most of them felt fun and maybe 3 were annoying in bfa it feels like the opposite
sharp night
@limpid pawn update your details, author accidentally left some debug code in there from when he was adding the spellreflect stuff
limpid pawn
got it thanks
still pagoda
250 echoes left away from TD3
time to slap this bad boy on my 475 shield or KR ring
and cleanse all the non-haste TD1 pieces
since both my TD' will be on rings
modern brook
@upper violet that's some rose tinted glasses dude
upper violet
prob
modern brook
Legion dungeon design was dog shit across the board and maw of souls
still pagoda
Legion dungeon design had a lot of holes
modern brook
There were literally entire classes that couldnt do 15s
still pagoda
i can easily admit this
^^
Post-nerf ShPriest
when they nerfed STM into the ground
modern brook
Like not "oh its hard"
flint ember
quick question, anyone got a link for bis prot?
sharp night
there was no class or spec in legion that couldn't do 15s
what are you talking about
left hatch
super feelycraft, but legions 'annoying' dungeons were way more tedious than BFA's
Halls and seat were just so long an tedious
id take a triggering TD run over that any day
sharp night
it's because you had the easy dungeons to compare to in legion
left hatch
but both xpacs have really good and fun dungeons
tame garden
seat was only hard cuz no1 knew the mechanics cuz everyone avoided it
still pagoda
super feelycraft, but legions 'annoying' dungeons were way more tedious than BFA's
@left hatch
Seat especially
sharp night
in bfa the "base difficulty" of dungeons is much higher
in legion half the dungeons you literally just
pulled half the dungeon and ran
and people nuked while you ran away
so the dungeons where you actually had to do mechanics felt WAY worse than bfa
still pagoda
Seat, Cathedral, Halls on certain weeks, EoA with shitty DPS
sharp night
where you have to play the same no matter what
still pagoda
every dungeon could wreck you
left hatch
my biggest complaint with BFA dungeon design is a lot of cases making trash hard means making it have more shit you need to interrupt. which makes running full comps of casters not viable
still pagoda
^
left hatch
which kinda sucks you can't run shrine with like 3 warlocks
warm plinth
Not to mention, the mechanic where mobs will cast on other targets when the eligible one is not in range (in most cases, the aggro target) was not as prevalent in Legion, so you typically didn't have mobs randomly casting while you were kiting; kiting just completely negated the damage.
still pagoda
while in legion we could take as much mages and hunters as we would love to
obtuse yoke
fav prot mogs?
warm plinth
Yeah, in Legion you just kited so it didn't really matter who the other two DPS were as long as one was a warlock :p
obtuse yoke
i want to build something around skullflame shield
sharp night
yeah because you negated all mechanics by just running away
in bfa you run away and your group gets blasted
left hatch
im still kinda bummed out about them putting an aoe cap on basically everything
sharp night
less viable specs
left hatch
feel like its them assuming every group makes MDI style mass pulls
at every level of gameplay
and are overcorrecting based on that
same reason they changed gear swapping in M+, or taking away group loot
vagrant rivet
What do you guys think about 2 x Gushing + 5 x Versa III for keys up to 24/25?
left hatch
not great
still pagoda
don't bother
vagrant rivet
The gushing should excel on ST though, right? Even IT
upper violet
vagrant rivet
I'd like to get rid of TD - same as IS on DPS
still pagoda
warm plinth
Why would you like to get rid of TD
vagrant rivet
But yes, gushing would not be the proper way to get rid of TD
sharp night
gushing would beat TD overall in WS most likely tbh
steep bone
guys, which one ?
sharp night
but you would need enough to cap resist
vagrant rivet
TD currently only deals around 20-25% of my dps overall and it's worth 48% versa
sharp night
and there aren't enough slots for that, so you'd mix some stuff
still pagoda
@vagrant rivet why would you ever get rid of TD?
vagrant rivet
Exchanging TD with versa should not even be that much of a dps loss
still pagoda
it is literally the best corruption
still pagoda
you don't need vers until giga keys Naowh-style
thinking it wont be a massive dps loss
vagrant rivet
1 TD3 = 20% dmg overall. That equals 48% more versa (nearly). This might nearly match
upper violet
i meaaaaaaaaaaaaan yeah thats true and thats true thats pretty fucking true... thats just how it is
orchid frigate
what a terrible group, DH + ele shammy that probably havent heard about skittish
still pagoda
@left hatch I still have place for IT1 in this shit. SO... I will just slap 1-2 IT1's when they come up on the vendor again
orchid frigate
i literally had to run around and chase mobs
warm plinth
You realize that Versatile increases the versatility you gain from sources, not your Versatility percentage, right?
still pagoda
1 TD3 = 20% dmg overall. That equals 48% more versa (nearly). This might nearly match
@vagrant rivet
Account also for haste loss and disparity between TC and TD in damage. And also what Ghash wrote
vagrant rivet
Yes ofc, but I can get to ~2.2k versa, so it would increase the flat amount by 1.1k + conflict + aegis ...
still pagoda
vers stacking is just mathematically not valuable until keys where you need to survive oneshots
left hatch
in order to get 48% rating youd need almost 4k versa lol
vagrant rivet
48% versa should equal around 1.5-2k versa
vagrant rivet
Without food and essences ofc
left hatch
generous estimate and thats still only like an 18% increase
still pagoda
https://puu.sh/FQx9I.jpg
Taking this from #brew-lounge on PoS. This is good. 2.2k is extremely low
vagrant rivet
I did a lot of calculations today and I should (without aegis) be at around 4.8k with 60% versa as an alternative
vagrant rivet
With my current gear
still pagoda
not this 2.2k nonsense
still pagoda
^
left hatch
and unless you're doing midrange 20 keys
you'll also be less tanky (given proper play) than if you went with expedients and IT
upper violet
ait im going versa and u cant stop me 
vagrant rivet
21+ atm, but it's a twink and I aim for higher ofc
left hatch
it is 'safer' in the sense it allows imperfect play and lots of mistakes
still pagoda
then why you even bother with vers
left hatch
but if you're confident in your play of the class
vers is worse in every way to other builds
at that range
vagrant rivet
I am currently at TD3 + 2 x expedient 3
left hatch
id drop one of the expedients for 2 IT1's
next time its up
and stick with haste gems/chants
vagrant rivet
I am too low on corruption anyway atm, 22
still pagoda
vagrant rivet
Another reason I thought about 1 GW
left hatch
eh itd be an ok filler but
vagrant rivet
So GW wouldn't be an option in any way you think?
sharp night
wait 3 days
left hatch
IT1 should be back next week
sharp night
td1 will be on vendor
vagrant rivet
Yep
left hatch
if you're serious about a versa bulid too for higher keys
im pretty sure at least 1 surging vit
and 2 IT's
are the play
vagrant rivet
Yes, 1 Surginng would be worth it
left hatch
but thats also not gonna be worth it till like 24/25 bare minimum
vagrant rivet
But still ... How much overall dmg % do you guys have with 1 TD3?
left hatch
until that point haste and crit are better defensive stats
vagrant rivet
20-25?
still pagoda
30-35 with TD4
vagrant rivet
Yeah that would match roundabout
still pagoda
will go do few keys with TD5 and drop some tuff
vagrant rivet
That would mean TD12 would be 100% :-D
still pagoda
MOCK
sharp night
i mean
sharp night
honestly td12 would be like 99% yeah
left hatch
then die
left hatch
its a race for TD or TFB to proc
vagrant rivet
Yeah that's funny but not true :P
warm plinth
Okay but like, TD doing 20% of your overall damage does not mean that gaining 20% versatility will give you the same damage. Because TD is not based on your existing damage; it's based on your health.
Let's say you do 10k DPS (to make math easy), 2k (20%) of that is your TD. If you took your TD away and replaced it with 20% versatility, then you're taking 8k and multiplying it by 1.2 which gives you 9600 DPS
still pagoda
^
upper violet
honestly ive tried playing with tfb its annoying and half the time it spawns directly on me no time to react
vagrant rivet
Yes, and in addition a shitload of defensives
upper violet
caused me bs death
still pagoda
even if we account for TD being 20% damage, 20% vers stat(not amps) will give you only 16% of your non-TD damage AND THIS if we count that you did run with 0% before that
left hatch
10% isn't 'a shitload'
still pagoda
otherwise it will be a really small bonus
left hatch
and theres the opportunity cost of the haste you're giving up
left hatch
which again, until you need it versa is a worse defensive stat than haste and crit
left hatch
you'd also probably lose ilvl to toss on some versa pieces
which rip some stam and armor
left hatch
its still not just a 10% DR net gain
but again its a game
you can do w/e you want lol
its just not optimal in 21's
youd gain more out of learning Lucid Major pulls
vagrant rivet
Imho there's 3 options you could decide going to
TD
Haste
Versa
Mixing them is meh ...
left hatch
tbh i don't think expedient stacking is really a thing
still pagoda
^
still pagoda
it's an arms thing
alright. +18 SoB for testing purposes
lets see how much TD5 will pump
left hatch
even fun stuff like twistie tendies isn't real anymore ):
vagrant rivet
Got TD3 + 2 exp3 atm. IT1 would fit without going above 40 cor
left hatch
that IT would be a lot better than a versa amp
vagrant rivet
2 IT + 6 Versa 3 or 2 GW + 5 Versa 3 was my current plan
left hatch
Deadly momentum and Avoidant are kinda garbage
and TA has been outscaled by %health corruptions at this point
but if you don't have any other options
GW isn't worth
if you want damage go TD
warm plinth
I'm gonna assume you meant you're 465 right?
left hatch
if you want defensive value go IT
untold sorrel
yeah 465
left hatch
and again, the versa build is not optimal at 21's lol
sharp night
yea if you're 365 you have other things to think about before corruption 🙂
marsh smelt
Spiked the weekly reward
warm plinth
ngl would've been impressed they were 365 and had that many corruptions 😂
vagrant rivet
Well I probably won't have the option to have both gearsets atm. So if I plan on going for 23/24 keys within the next 2-3 weeks, I need to decide "soon" :)
vagrant rivet
World domination is the goal, but yes, keep it realistic :)
left hatch
and focus on your play and pulls
tight whale
How to properly kite this week? When I run out CDs? Always?
left hatch
working around things like LSP and lucid
cause you'll need that AND versa once you hit like 25+'s
candid inlet
can someone take a look at my azerite choices and see if they're ok? This is like 445ish looking to push +10s
vagrant rivet
The cheapest would be 1 IT 1. That's TD 3, 2 x exp 3 and 1 IT 1 then. That costs like nothing atm
left hatch
Everything but bloodsport is ok with what you have circled
and not really
its a higher cost worse TD
candid inlet
Bloodsport super bad?
left hatch
yeh bloodsport is awful
candid inlet
ok tyty
vagrant rivet
Hm ... I got around 10 days to think about Exp or versa actually... Got 30k echoes atm
loud oyster
@left hatch thanks mate
candid inlet
is the ilevel upgrade better than the socket?
left hatch
id stick with the socket
esp since it has haste on it as well
and you'll find something higher once you break into 12's
candid inlet
ok
candid inlet
and what I currently have on cause it has haste as well right?
still pagoda
mastery has penetrated the bottom
candid inlet
is vers stacking only a thing for like 25keys and up?
still pagoda
^
left hatch
haste and to a lesser degree crit are better defensively
(versa stacks up hella slow... 81 per .5% dr)
left hatch
pog
still pagoda
and this is only with 68 cloak res
still pagoda
well
left hatch
tbh no catchup on post 15 corruption res
still pagoda
74 next week
left hatch
is what made me stop caring about my Shaman and hunter
cba to do nzoth as well each week on alts
still pagoda
gonna just go get HC N'Zoth and vision weekly bumps before raid night
candid inlet
So with the echoes only being for buying null dynamo when I get it on my other character, what should I be buy for corruptions?
candid inlet
Just TD?
left hatch
well for one thing Null is kinda niche
still pagoda
TD is priority
candid inlet
I assume you just run it for ML
still pagoda
IT1 and Haste% are good fillers
left hatch
CnS, Lucid, VoP, Sphere, Str of the Warden and even Aegis has more use
still pagoda
^
left hatch
and even then... most weeks i do without it on rixxa
and once you get giga high
some groups hearth out to swap
to like AuG major
still pagoda
VoP major
CnS, Lucid, Sphere minors
left hatch
and null minor
still pagoda
this is my usual setup
left hatch
you won't need null to survive rixxa till like 18 minimum
still pagoda
when i want to run lucid major, i just swap VoP and lucid in their places
^^ can confirm
candid inlet
I have r1 cns cause I don't want to aarena
left hatch
if you raid tho Null is a good pickup
still pagoda
she starts wrecking at +18
left hatch
if you don't wanna do CnS
VoP, Lucid, Sphere, Aegis/Str
pick up r1 of sphere of suppression
candid inlet
bad picture
left hatch
aegis you gotta actively play around for it to be good
anytime you're not in combat with 6+ targets
its worse than other choices
still pagoda
left hatch
so if you don't like doing bosses with trash or chain pulling which is impossible this week lul
sphere r1 in its place is better
still pagoda
yes
candid inlet
Oh man
left hatch
you only grab r1 of it tho
still pagoda
^
left hatch
or r2 for the slow
upper violet
3 worth something
still pagoda
or R2 if you're a masochist like i am
upper violet
im like 8k honor away from r3 on another character then i could pick it up
candid inlet
Rank 3: No change.
still pagoda
r3 minor doesn't add anything
candid inlet
??
upper violet
i am speed
left hatch
wowhead never updated
left hatch
i can't stand pvp
upper violet
ddint play last season so ye kind of a problem
i like 2s more than 3s tbh
3s just feel weird
candid inlet
Ok so I should spend my echoes on TD1 right?
upper violet
maybe im just bad
still pagoda
@upper violet try playing WLD, TSG, Thunder Cleave or Turbo in 3s
you'll get a shitton of fun out of it
left hatch
since yo'ure just breaking into 10's you'll get a TON of new gear soon
and likely replace it
whichll feel awful
left hatch
so buy some TD!'s and wait till you start getting 465+ gear
upper violet
played lots of turbo in legion but this xpac not much pvp till recently
candid inlet
Okay cool
left hatch
that you're positive you wont replace
left hatch
IT1 also comes back next week
candid inlet
Is there a "bis" azerite list
upper violet
pog
left hatch
and thats worth picking up a rank or 2
You wanna get 3xBoM 1xDC and 2 of either HoD/CH or MS
candid inlet
As in like a piece of gear with all good azerite*
upper violet
next week or next vendor reset
left hatch
for non mythic raiders the pieces are.. Abyssal Malevolence Helm , Mechagon Chest (forget the name) or Ashvane Warden Cuirrass, Tankbuster shoulders or Kraken Pauldrons
candid inlet
And for corruptions, I'm not 100% on how they work
still pagoda
TD
candid inlet
Is there a TD3 corruption?
still pagoda
yes
left hatch
yes
sweet summit
That too
still pagoda
it's purely additive
candid inlet
But there's also a single td3 corruption?
sweet summit
Yes
candid inlet
Can you get to say TD12?
candid inlet
O shit
still pagoda
TD5 is optimal at the moment
sweet summit
Its possible, but maybe not playable
sharp night
the highest you can get without cascading is td7 at endgame
left hatch
sure it is
its a dps race between you and the other thing
make world content a gamble
candid inlet
Okay cool
still pagoda
also
don't forget about tea breaks
annoy everyone by doing at least one between keys
upper violet
What are u british
candid inlet
Are tanks supposed to be able to solo visions
still pagoda
everyone is supposed to do so
upper violet
Yep
vagrant rivet
By now everyone can solo yes
TD comes in quite handy in visions :)
I think every spec / class can solo 5 masks as well, with the proper gear. In the beginning it was harder for some classes (and still is)
warm plinth
I've already 3 masked on my warrior (as prot) and I'm terrible. Pretty sure I can 5 mask once I actually have 5 masks heh
candid inlet
Ah I see
strong forum
Every single spec in the game can solo 5mask
vagrant rivet
5 mask solo is ok too, but you pretty much only wait for TD to kill everything :D
strong forum
However classes without interrupt might have trouble here and there
vagrant rivet
Yep
I play shadow priest / disc as well. You got some problems with interrupts sometimes, but experience tells you how to play around that
upper violet
How do not shamans/monks do it
vagrant rivet
Rexxar as shadow sucks (solo) and the mage quarter end boss
upper violet
Magequarter boss with the chains of ice shit can fuck off
warm plinth
You just run a few steps, stop, run a few steps, stop
upper violet
I guess its better than split personality doe
vagrant rivet
And he does 2 casts and 45s cd is a long cd for an interrupt
warm plinth
The vast majority of the sanity damage on Umbric is the missiles
vagrant rivet
Yes
warm plinth
Unless you just walk into the frozen storm shit
upper violet
U can SR poly right
vagrant rivet
Yes
warm plinth
Tbh I kill him too fast on 3 mask to even get poly so I wasn't 100% 😂
candid inlet
Also is the prot loops supposed to put you in avatar for basically forever?
warm plinth
Umbric ports > TD proc
warm plinth
Umbric ports again > TD proc
left hatch
but yeh you'll be in ava more often than not
upper violet
I think i remember reflecting it but idk might be delusional
candid inlet
I feel so anemic without avatar up
warm plinth
I'm fairly certain you can
vagrant rivet
Poly can be reflected
left hatch
you might be misplaying
upper violet
Ye
left hatch
common misplay for new prots is thinking IP is something that competes with SB
or that uptime of IP matters
it doesn't.
SB is top priority in all but like 3 cases
and IP is just a rage dump
vagrant rivet
And magic dmg buffer
candid inlet
Aside from like telegraphed hits where you know something is coming
Should you ever hold it?
vagrant rivet
Magic dmg / bleed buffer
left hatch
uhhh you don't use it while Last STand is rolling
and its better to have 1s gaps between uses than like using 2 charges back to back and having longer instances where you have no block
candid inlet
Ah smoother damage
vagrant rivet
You can pretty much block every hit for ~ 1 minute straight
left hatch
and yeh its a buffer for magic damage, but outside of Zul, Rixxa and galvazzt there really isn't a situation that youd prioritize IP over it
candid inlet
What haste do I need for that 1 second buffer?
vagrant rivet
Dino Boss Atal dazar tyrannical
left hatch
since almost every pack has not insignificant aa's to block at the same time
you do'nt drop SB for that lol
vagrant rivet
Nah you don't drop it
left hatch
hell just kill you with aa's
vagrant rivet
But IP helps with the bleed a lot
vagrant rivet
Well "a lot" but not enough :-D
upper violet
Rixa and galavaz dont AA u damn
warm plinth
Galvazzt 100% melees you
left hatch
their AA's are unblockable
vagrant rivet
I play with double absorb trinkets on that dungeon + tyr
upper violet
It kinda looks like they do so i press sb
upper violet
Oh oof
warm plinth
No
left hatch
if not whats his name
candid inlet
no that's
candid inlet
tos air ele
warm plinth
Rixxa and Mogul both technically auto attack but they are unblockable magic damage.
Alpha Cannon Mogul and something flames iirc on Rixxa
vagrant rivet
Zul does melee? :D
left hatch
yeh
warm plinth
Yeah, but infrequently
candid inlet
Is there a breakpoint for haste I should be looking for?
left hatch
not a reachable one
vagrant rivet
On zul u would not SB
vagrant rivet
Cheat death major, nullification, double absorb trinket, full IP
vagrant rivet
And beg your healer to not be a Pala that only shocks to have good dps logs :-D
vagrant rivet
I like the double shield wall
left hatch
if you're proccing it often you have some serious issues with your play
vagrant rivet
Or Zul
left hatch
again you have some serious issues with your play
vagrant rivet
I only use it on KR Fortified, ML Tyr
hallow phoenix
You can kite zul if you really need to
upper violet
vagrant rivet
In KR it also helps with kings room eventually or the big group before 1st boss
left hatch
you actively run into more dangerous situations on the assumption of 'im going to die' by doing that
vagrant rivet
I prefer not proccing it, but when it does I am happy to have it
hallow phoenix
It only procs if you would die right
left hatch
rather than actively avoiding those situations
vagrant rivet
Yes @tusks and 10 min CD then
hallow phoenix
Nothing in mini boss room should kill you
vagrant rivet
I don't think it forces me to increase my risk
hallow phoenix
It's all blockable or interruptable
vagrant rivet
Yeah u seem to have a group of friends to play with
left hatch
like theres a reason people run Soul Barrier/Void Reaver over Last Resort
hallow phoenix
So it shouldn't be proccing in that room
left hatch
and Bone Storm/Red Thirst over Purg
vagrant rivet
I need to play all keys in pugs
left hatch
cheat deaths are kinda a last resort
unless you're using it to cheese some mechanic or learning
theres ALWAYS a better solution
and you're making the dungeon harder by using it
as a safety blanket
and it does increase your risk because outside it proccingf it has 0 value
yo'ure running no major essence
vagrant rivet
Yes, true, but when it proccs, it was a good decision to have it. On KR without a battle Res it's useful for zul.
left hatch
and giving up the significant value of VoP or Lucid
hallow phoenix
Lucid major is probably more reliable at keeping you alive through any scary uncontrolled situation, and has only a 2 min cd
vagrant rivet
Your assumptions are made on good setups and / or premade grps with communication
left hatch
no
hallow phoenix
I pug a lot
hallow phoenix
18-19s
left hatch
not a reactive tank
vagrant rivet
Yes, lucid is awesome, but we were talking about zul
hallow phoenix
Lucid is amazing on zul
left hatch
^
hallow phoenix
Until it's over
vagrant rivet
Safer
left hatch
its not safer
if your healer is that unreliable
you'll just die after your second SW
vagrant rivet
I don't know the healer before
left hatch
big value
vagrant rivet
I will walk through the whole dungeon to find out if he knows how to single heal
hallow phoenix
It's almost impossible to die while in lucid
left hatch
and you can't just look at 1 mob in a vacuum
you're running essentially nothing for 99% of a dungeon
because you're not relying on your own ability to handle one mob
not your healer
your own
cause last resort you can kite him
still pagoda
Lucid is till pretty nice IMO. Just fun and can be used for practice in 19's
but yea
it's true effectiveness comes by in 21's and higher
hallow phoenix
In a high enough key lucid will keep you alive longer than an extra shield wall on zul
vagrant rivet
Yes of course
left hatch
also allows mass pulls where your healer can afk
left hatch
cause the leech plus IP spam makes you invuln
hallow phoenix
Whatever it is
vagrant rivet
I said I only run it on some ML tyr + KR fort
left hatch
in ML as well, you're better off with AuG
vagrant rivet
Depending on week dungeon I prefer majors: Lucid, CnS, VoP
left hatch
the absolutely useless essence
vagrant rivet
I don't consider it useless though, but there are many ways to keep it yep
left hatch
end of the day tanking is all about control
still pagoda
the only tanks that need cheat death are the weak
left hatch
running that major relinquishes basically every benefit and control
still pagoda
who can't just press SB
left hatch
on the expectation you'll die
left hatch
i mean what fight this tier really needed a cheat death to learn
stiff oracle
Play better.
left hatch
shad? you'll just die to his next combo
strong forum
KR revolves 100% only around zul. So picking your gear solely around him is worth it
still pagoda
git gud
vagrant rivet
You think too digital :) bullshit (0) Vs good (1)
hallow phoenix
Disagree nom
still pagoda
pugs
warm plinth
I mean, for the tank it makes sense. BUT, I still wouldn't use Touch for Zul
If anything I'd use AUG
strong forum
Exactly
hallow phoenix
Zul kited
warm plinth
Like the dangerous shit in KR largely happens to the other people in the group
strong forum
You cant reliably kite zul without clearing atleast 1 side of the bridge
hallow phoenix
I would never make my setup 100% around one of any mob
warm plinth
Spit Gold, Drain Fluids, etc
strong forum
Nobody kites zul these days
hallow phoenix
Cause it's not needed
vagrant rivet
I don't clear the bridge
left hatch
but nobody runs cheat death on it either lul
vagrant rivet
Yes, I do
hallow phoenix
I run lucid in high kr with rsham
hallow phoenix
And we never kite zul
vagrant rivet
What is high?
stiff oracle
23
vagrant rivet
And Fort or Tyr?
hallow phoenix
Not really
stiff oracle
What lol
vagrant rivet
Link?
strong forum
The bigger issue is the HP on fort
left hatch
shaman is one of the weaker healers
stiff oracle
Why would sham be good there
hallow phoenix
Don't think we've ever linked it
vagrant rivet
Shouldn't link be good there? Never went there with a sham I guess
strong forum
Sham isn't good on zul whatsoever. Next to disc it's the weakest tank healer
Link doesn't work if you die insta
hallow phoenix
It would be good but it's just one cd
left hatch
every healer has externals to toss on you
hallow phoenix
Zul is mostly throughput
vagrant rivet
Disc a weak tank healer?
hallow phoenix
Disc is a weak tank healer compared to rdruid hpal monk
Only other external for zul in my group is darkness
We get by him just fine
left hatch
and darkness is super RNG-ey for big hits like that
strong forum
Disc is the weakest tank healer next to rsham, he gets + points from pain sup and bubble
That's about it
Rsham struggles from lack of externals and 0 smart heals, shamans needs to time his healing perfectly
still pagoda
Link?
@vagrant rivet
Link is much worse than raw output of druid, MW or holy pala
vagrant rivet
On zul fight length is important as well... 3 x 80k dps Vs 3 x 150k dps is a big difference as well
left hatch
why cycling cds/externals is so important on it
strong forum
You can cover a good 45sec alone by CDs
hallow phoenix
That's true but again lucid lasts twice as long as an extra SW and will keep you alive on zul
strong forum
After that it gets scuffed
left hatch
but lucid is also a better cd than the SW from a cheat death
lasts longer, shorter cd, and more effective than SW
hallow phoenix
Gets your actual CDs up faster too
vagrant rivet
Well with lucid I don't manage to outheal zul
hallow phoenix
An extra demo is huge
vagrant rivet
Maybe I do STH wrong
strong forum
Idk I do 100k hps on zul
left hatch
you def are
hallow phoenix
That would be the norm
strong forum
Without hero or urchin
left hatch
you get 2 back to back avatars (3 if you run IT2 and get lucky)
and have spam IPs
and demo shout has giga uptime
are you worried about overcapping ip or something?
vagrant rivet
I'll try lucid next week on a 18 or 19
left hatch
and not spamming it
vagrant rivet
And check my hps
hallow phoenix
You just have to spam ip
still pagoda
just spam IP
still pagoda
break this button already
left hatch
yeh its super easy to overcap rage with lucid rolling
and overcapping IP >>>>> wasting rage
grabbing an IT next wed wil also make zul much easier
vagrant rivet
Yes
still pagoda
grabbing IT1 is just good as it is
left hatch
but my point is the cheat death shouldn't feel safer
it takes away control from you
and actual value
on a contigency
its a false sense of secuirty
security that strips away more than it provides
vagrant rivet
Ah crap, need sleep - good night :D
left hatch
or at least with decent play it does
vagrant rivet
Thx for discussing
still pagoda
cheat death doesn't even feel anywhere "safer"
left hatch
sorry if i came off as condescending or anything
left hatch
and honestly the more you get into the mindset of mitigating issues before they happen
the smoother yhour kyes and easier higher keys will go (:
vocal skiff
First time tanking heroic tonight. I massively outgear it
Should I go with CoF major?
left hatch
if you want its good for st dps
hallow phoenix
Yus
hallow phoenix
Gives your raid good void uptime too
vocal skiff
It's my first time tanking a raid in a while, I will go with my comfy booming voice
perhaps later
left hatch
thats fair
vocal skiff
But def will pick CoF
left hatch
i find i forget to press DS when im running deva lol
can't waste those gcds i could be SSing ):<
vocal skiff
And then I guess null, CnS and lucid minor?
left hatch
Null, CnS and Void
vocal skiff
I don't have void
left hatch
VoP over lucid
vocal skiff
Oh yes, forgot about VoP
exotic spoke
For raid?
vocal skiff
So used to running it as major
left hatch
yeh for raid
exotic spoke
Mythic or heroic?
vocal skiff
heroic
left hatch
heroic
hoary dune
I just did a 17 seige with a prot warrior using the temple toxin trinket and he did insane dmg with it, is there a trick to optimizing the dmg you do with that thing? I think it out damaged his r4 TWD overall
exotic spoke
Null will depend on the fight. But in general CoF / Worldvein depending on the fight / your strat for majors
Vop, cns , lucid, formless(if you need corruption resistance) for minors. But you can also sun yourraelf
left hatch
make huge pulls around it
and make sure nothing is gonna whack you you because you can't block with it
exotic spoke
Huge pulls around it and probably don’t use it in whatever you think is a high key
left hatch
im... fairly certain that running the taunt major into it isn't worth it tho
still pagoda
@hoary dune pull HUGE, stun packs and go ham with it
left hatch
not 100% on that tho
hoary dune
Ok, Ik that dh trait scales it with haste but warriors don’t have anything crazy like that right?
left hatch
and also note that Demo shout won't increase its damage
still pagoda
Ok, Ik that dh trait scales it with haste but warriors don’t have anything crazy like that right?
@hoary dune
We have HASTE
a shitton of it
left hatch
yeh we gem full haste, run haste trinks with it
and ideally haev a few Overwhelming Powers
left hatch
i think i consitently get 160% after every eyebeam
hoary dune
Ok so avatar won’t scale it? Might be worth avataring with 3x bastion before using to live though I assume?
left hatch
nope
exotic spoke
Nope
left hatch
mastery doesn't increase trinket damage
exotic spoke
You gain nothing other than an IP from it
warm plinth
tbf I'm not 100% sure that Strength major wouldn't increase its damage. It doesn't appear to be whitelisted as far as wowhead says.
left hatch
yeh, thats a big reason im not sure running it is the play
aside from the offensive loss of lucid/vop
eh if shits whacking you in a massive pull
warm plinth
Avatar/Demo doesn't affect fang ofc, but Strength should unless wowhead just doesn't have it stated that it's whitelisted, which is possible.
hardy mesa
Does Thunderclap affect cysts on Mythic carapace?
proven breach
Exp 8 2 raid haste trinkets 2 meticulous scheming and last there are no cool downs 👍
Lust
left hatch
i mean, your Ava and DS effectively stop scaling after 100% haste
cause thats when your GCD stops scaling
same with LS
so after 100% only thing you're boosting is SB uptime
so seems a smidge overkill
grabbing IT tho will keep scaling those (;
bright pier
Hey guys, you think Lucid Dreams or Conflict and Strife major this week for 20+ keys?
still pagoda
you need 200% haste with no IT's for that
Hey guys, you think Lucid Dreams or Conflict and Strife major this week for 20+ keys?
@bright pier
VoP or Lucid
left hatch
Lucid
still pagoda
no need for CnS
left hatch
CnS is ehh
still pagoda
i'm going to push into 20's this week and would prefer lucid
bright pier
cheers
versed widget
hey guys, tradewinds or first rank of iron fortress?
i figure tradewinds might be good cos bastion is bis
left hatch
whats your shield level?
versed widget
465 shield level
left hatch
probably IF
versed widget
aight ty
eager fable
Hi guys, wondering what to pick when the vendor resets, I have 53 Corruption resistance and only running TD3, what corruption should I add, IT1 (x2) and then as much Versatily3? or ignore IT and just add vers? or get rid of TD3 and run IT and Vers? Sorry if its a repeating question
still pagoda
Get 1-2 IT1's and then stockpile for TD
Vers stacking is not needed if you're doing keys below +25
The optimum for 99% of keys is TD4-5 + IT1
eager fable
thats surprising, i see a lot of top players stacking vers, imagined it would be pretty universal, What do you mean by "TD4-5" ? should i be aiming for TD in slots?
still pagoda
Aight, time to go off to bed. Lots of stuff to be done tomorrow
thats surprising, i see a lot of top players stacking vers, imagined it would be pretty universal, What do you mean by "TD4-5" ? should i be aiming for TD in slots?
@eager fable
WF keys are not "usual"
left hatch
versa stacking is only great when you absolutely need it to survive 1 shots despite perfect play
still pagoda
^ been said a 1000 times
left hatch
what ppl do in 28's is a world apart from what yo'ull see in even 23's
left hatch
and until that point haste and (to a lesser degree) crit are better defensively than versa
still pagoda
Ffs, i have shitton of studies and first raid night with the new guild tomorrow
left hatch
so TD and filling with IT and expedient >>> versa builds
distant crystal
i mean versa build is gonna be the best defensively regardless of the content eh
it's just that you don't really need to build defensively in middling keys
still pagoda
The best defence is offence
The faster trash dies, the significantly less damage you take
hallow phoenix
There's nothing wrong with throwing in more defensive options in 20+ range
left hatch
but theres also better things to do at that range defensively like learning how to use lucid, LPS etc
than relying on versa to live through stuff
still pagoda
^
left hatch
cause itll be better to learn whats truly dangerous and the proper way to play around it earlier
than rely on a versa stack and not prep for that
someone earlier was talking about ignoring water blasts because he has so much verse
and thatd be lethal in higher keys and is a bad habit to get into
hallow phoenix
True but I definitely consider throwing on some vers pieces for tyr ML or atal when my group does a 22-23
left hatch
and you also probs running IT (:
hallow phoenix
For some dungeons yeah
still pagoda
Fuck interrupting wash
left hatch
he was interrupting tempest instead
hallow phoenix
Sarcasm karton
hallow phoenix
Real play is skip all that trash and do a 7 pack pull with runecarver. Not this week though :(
still pagoda
SotS this week is 
material
left hatch
i just cant stand bolstering
still pagoda
I'm gonna pull big despite bolstering
left hatch
anything that stops me chain pulling when shits at like 25%
still pagoda
Time to
left hatch
makes me sad
still pagoda
Last bolstering week i was pulling big
This will not be an exception
Just no chain pulls
hallow phoenix
My group ree's really hard if I don't let their potions reset every pull
It's become music to my ears because I love chain pulling
pastel sleet
Ilvl over stat priority forever correct?
hallow phoenix
Yes
pastel sleet
And rings
left hatch
yeh rings you need haste
left hatch
iv held onto a ring for like 25 ilvls between sockets na dbad RNG on haste rings
pastel sleet
Aight
left hatch
less of a deal now we can put sockets on stuff
pastel sleet
Got an upgrade out of my chest then woot
left hatch
gz
marsh smelt
Does the 30 tanks with TD to kil nzoth thing actually work? Should I bother signing up for one?
left hatch
yeh
candid inlet
Is the best way to do pvp islands just running around gathering stuff then aoeing things?
warm plinth
Yep
hallow phoenix
spawn camp enemy team
urban radish
gushing wound still viable single target after the nerf?
left hatch
for its budget its still better than TD if its all on like 475 shit in st only
but youd need to put it on like every piece
and falls instantly if theres even 1 more target
clear pawn
gushing wound any use in buying them for prot ?
urban radish
was just looking for some extra damage, have TD 3, exp 3, and avoid 1 right now
cosmic crystal
is 5 mask easier as prot or arms
left hatch
wait till friday and gget a TD1