protection

[trail dome]

[brittle owl]

it's good now, just unintuitive and most people that play tanks are kinda smol brain

[sweet summit]

[brittle owl]

but tbh

any shield class >= vdh>bdk>rest

[trail dome]

back when i was good at this game in legion i played BDK. Love that spec.

Runes & RP is my favourite resource system in WoW

hands down

[brittle owl]

honestly

[strong forum]

Bdk has an insane fanbase

It's scary

[brittle owl]

it's shit imo

esp compared

to original system

[trail dome]

yeah

i miss OG runes

[brittle owl]

which was actually cool

[trail dome]

you're not wrong

but they kinda ruined that for BDK anyway

[sick sentinel]

But you have to be a weeb at some level to be a BDK main right?

[strong forum]

I checked the logs of all raids. Bdk is always top 2. Even in bod and EP when it was the worst tank. Still top 2

[brittle owl]

no tobit

you got it wrong

[strong forum]

By numbers

[trail dome]

like i think it was..... mop?

[brittle owl]

bdk is for boomer edgelords

vdh is for zoomer edgelords

[trail dome]

was it mop they made DS basically give you permanent death runes anyway

[brittle owl]

paladin is for weebs

[sick sentinel]

LMAO

[sweet summit]

warrior is for chads

[trail dome]

chuds

[brittle owl]

warrior is for people with no higher education

[trail dome]

maybe

[strong forum]

Warrior is for grugs

[sweet summit]

:(

[brittle owl]

bear is for animal humpers

[trail dome]

nah

[sweet summit]

yah

[trail dome]

that's like rdruids and fearls and shit

[strong forum]

Mael spitting facts

[trail dome]

bear players are like

[brittle owl]

and brew is for legitimate mongoloids

[trail dome]

stoners

100%

[sick sentinel]

I think clap is one of the satisfying buttons fo press in WoW

[strong forum]

Not in SL

:)

[brittle owl]

incorrect

[still pagoda]

and brew is for legitimate stoned mongoloids*

[brittle owl]

best button to press in wow

[trail dome]

every single bear player is a big lofty goofy thing that smokes 16 joints before they get up

[brittle owl]

is TD

[sweet summit]

[brittle owl]

[trail dome]

BrM is the mage of tanks

[worthy flicker]

What do you guys think...Dwarf or Kirin for alliance?

[trail dome]

tryhard minmax raider pve type

[sweet summit]

dorf looks cooler

[trail dome]

@worthy flicker dwarf

that racial is so nice to have when its good

[brittle owl]

kul tiran for chonk

hands down

no contest

[sweet summit]

hands up

[trail dome]

rezan? ✅
kings rest? ✅
Necrotic? ✅

[sweet summit]

any fonts

[brittle owl]

💪

[worthy flicker]

Dark Iron or Reg? Currently I’m a thicc boy but I do like dwarves.

[trail dome]

Original and best

[sweet summit]

normal>red

[brittle owl]

dark iron for the metal

no

[sweet summit]

yes

[brittle owl]

fire beard >>>> virgin beard

[trail dome]

@brittle owl are you a dk player

[sweet summit]

ahahaa

[brittle owl]

i was one

now i play vdh

[trail dome]

wow

i guess it wasn't a phase

[brittle owl]

i play every extreme of the wow personality spectrum

bdk/vdh for the edge

paladin for the weeb

or gay, depending on interpretation

nd woyer as an inbetweeny

my char screen is legit a rainbow

don't have a rogue doe

[sweet summit]

i have given up on the vdh dream, cant get TD :(

[brittle owl]

but brown is a good substitute for yellow

arguably better

i have given up on the vdh dream, cant get TD :(
lmao git gud scrub

[sweet summit]

😢

[trail dome]

I played erry tank in legion barring warrior

[brittle owl]

i am a very inclusive and accepting wow player

[trail dome]

only one i don't have the MT appearance for 🙁

[brittle owl]

i just won't ever touch

druids

monks

hunters

not even with a 12 m pole

[sweet summit]

WW is the only good monk spec

but its not even good

:(

[trail dome]

nah for me i think it's brm

i feel like uh

brm is the only monk spec they had a really good idea for

[brittle owl]

brm is babys first tank

[trail dome]

and the other two are kind of a mess that they put in because they had no idea what they wanted them to do really

but they felt they needed 3 specs

[brittle owl]

brm is the first tank designed with AM in mind

so i guess theres that

but then again, ISB 😂

sHufFle

[trail dome]

active

[brittle owl]

😂

[long sun]

how good is leech for a tank ?

[brittle owl]

not good

[sweet summit]

irrelevant

[brittle owl]

^

better wording

[trail dome]

if you have 2 pieces that are the exact same and one has leech

take the leech one

if you have one that's like 150 crit 100 haste, 50 leech and one is 100 crit, 150 haste, no leech

i'd take the leech

that's about my leech threshold

does anyone remember early NH

where on brm you'd finish skorpyron and have >30 mins of ISB

that was fun until they hotfixed it

[brittle owl]

skorpyron

you mean the boss that prot paladin could solo tank

[trail dome]

yeah i more just meant

that you could infinitely stack ISB

went away in the staircase bit after trilliax though so you'd have to restack it on aluriel.

🙁

[vagrant orbit]

aye should I have atleast one Leviathan's Eye of Strength in socket or just put all quick sand spinels (haste gem)

[amber siren]

personal preference tbh

maybe sim it

[ionic fern]

@trail dome ?

[trail dome]

they were being mean to paladins

[vagrant orbit]

wont make too much of a difference? icy veins recommends having one

[amber siren]

dps wise you'd have to sim to check, defensively im really not sure how big of a deal it is

i dont have one bcs i play arms/prot and i have all haste gemmed but thats just me

[trail dome]

i really wanna get some better arms gear

pressing execute is fun

[sweet summit]

execute for prot in SL

[trail dome]

do we think prot will be best m+ tank in slands

or do we think they'll spin the wheel again

and by that i mean like

reduce prot armour by 10% and critical block value by 50%

or something

[sweet summit]

throw a dice

🤷‍♀️

[trail dome]

Did you see those graphs of M+ representation over time ?

It's pretty wild

Nerf rdruid.

https://imgur.com/a/EzX4ewd

The thumbnail is tanks. It has a bunch of stats in there though

[vagrant orbit]

isnt blood looking super strong atm?

[trail dome]

yeah

but BDK is always nuts with no gear

[vagrant orbit]

true, good point

[trail dome]

@amber siren do you by chance play arms in raid and prot in m+

that's what i'm doing atm and i'm not sure what the best way to handle my azerite situation is

[sweet summit]

thats what i do

[trail dome]

beyond farm 2 sets of everything.

[sweet summit]

i have 2 sets

[hasty quest]

i have an alt as BDK and its fun, specially for 2x interrupt , d&d slow, grip etc

[trail dome]

ok so i have 19 or 20 heroic nzoth kills and no helmet.

Every char i have has engineering helmet.

pls help

[sweet summit]

just loot it

[hasty quest]

but running with my Hpally friend he said: every time i have an hearth attack:)

[trail dome]

the thing with BDK is you basically don't need a healer even in like 19s

i play with a BDK friend a lot on my hpal

beacon is all he really needs

and if he dies it's basically always his own fault

he'll do like 80k hps on a pull while i'm doing 20k

[sweet summit]

isnt that every tank

[trail dome]

often he does >100k and i'm still only doing 20k

[sweet summit]

if you die you messed up

[trail dome]

you need to heal a warrior though

unless you're some god victory rush sniper

or leech stacker. 👀

[sweet summit]

👀

[trail dome]

actually growl hhad a really good thing about this recently

which is basically he has 0 agency over if the DK lives or dies

Which is true.

[sweet summit]

he can bark him, thats about it :p

[trail dome]

yeah but it's hard to know when

[ionic fern]

👀

[trail dome]

all it takes is one mistake from the DK & you just flop

like "OHMYGODINEEDBARK" and you're dead before you finish saying need

or whatever

[ionic fern]

Think i needed like 12k ehrps in a +19 yesterday.

[sweet summit]

we go again

[trail dome]

@ionic fern what about during rezan bleed

for example

[ionic fern]

🤷
I'm looking at the overall picture.

[trail dome]

ye that's kinda what i mean though

[vagrant orbit]

@trail dome thats hwat im going to start doing, arms raiding prot mythic+ I had a day off today so I thought id try pug some mythic + as a deeps. Never again

[trail dome]

i was watching nnogga tank WCM a little bit ago and he's like "don't heal me don't heal me"

even on like lord & lady

just calls for externals

[sweet summit]

i needed 16k ehrps in a 22 JY :(

[trail dome]

See tbf

[sweet summit]

how do i git gud

[trail dome]

JY fucking slaps

Nanoslicer 👀

[ionic fern]

I haven't logged any high AD's.

[trail dome]

Headbutt 👀

[ionic fern]

Just

Pull

Bigger.

[trail dome]

Raging headbutt 👀

[still pagoda]

👀

[ionic fern]

I hope i get to do FH this week at some point

[trail dome]

anyone ever died to raging enraged headbutt through shield block

[ionic fern]

I wanna do big pulls.

[trail dome]

when you have a druid AND hunter in your group

that was a tilter

[sweet summit]

i cant find any of my atal logs

[trail dome]

can't find that clip of growl talking about it

but it's what i'm tryna say put much more concisely

[still pagoda]

[sweet summit]

i like waycrest

raal with all the trash is one of the best feelings in the world

[still pagoda]

another free rio key

[smoky wave]

You pull raal with the trash together? Man, I need to change the way I tank. That sounds fun

[trail dome]

i do uh

[sweet summit]

yeah, entire raal room ontop of raal

[trail dome]

2 packs out in the hall

other 2 on raal

[still pagoda]

Say no other word

[trail dome]

strange formless minor

[sweet summit]

druid healer

CoF major

=

[still pagoda]

^

[sweet summit]

void

[still pagoda]

formless bis

[trail dome]

ye that's money in the bank i guess

[hasty quest]

how formless work ?

[sweet summit]

when someone in the party, including youself, activate their major essence

[still pagoda]

gonna pull half of backyard and raal room in huge pulls

[sweet summit]

you gain haste and mainstat

for 20 seconds

[tropic talon]

hello, what is the proper way to add ignore pain into your rotation? Ive read the guides but still a little confused. Thanks all!

[sweet summit]

when you need to spend rage

[tropic talon]

thats it?

[sweet summit]

yep

[still pagoda]

just a rage dump

nothing special

[tropic talon]

cool cool thank you

[amber siren]

@trail dome yeah like rosjen said, 2 sets of azerite gear

[trail dome]

my arms azerite is really really sad

[sick sentinel]

I will run shrine on +15 all week if i have to to get timer

[trail dome]

Anyone feel like giving me an F

[stiff oracle]

O

[amber siren]

f

[sweet summit]

one yike

[trail dome]

i can play 465 in every slot and 480 in shoulders

but no ToM so

the 450s are better

[sick sentinel]

never timed a +15 yet, so i'm exicted to try once again! best run i've had so far was

[sweet summit]

[trail dome]

i have faith in you yogi

but sots isn't the one i'd pick for first 15

[sweet summit]

i believe

[trail dome]

i'd take like junkyard or freehold

[sick sentinel]

something to prove i guess

[trail dome]

I don't like doing sots as a warrior tank

feels like a lot of the dungeon isn't in my control

i love doing it on my prot paladin though

ending pugs with 80% or so of kicks

oh btw @sweet summit mr high keys

any tips for the pack in front of jes on teeming

i got salt blasted a lot

it was fine but i had to run and los like, a lot

dps were holding kicks for the shield

[sweet summit]

i say dont kick shield i will belf

[ionic fern]

1)Taunt big boy, kill him separately - you won't get smacked by Salt Blasts since you are not technically in combat with the casters
2)After big boy dead - nuke the others.

🤷

[trail dome]

ye we had 3 belfs in party but i should have said

[sweet summit]

i charge the guy thats not a seaspeaker so i can get double reflect

arsonist

[trail dome]

the arsonist is the one you can pull seperately though right

[sweet summit]

isnt that the thug

[trail dome]

no it's block warden

[sweet summit]

oops

[sweet summit]

idk ive never split that pack afaik

one of the seaspeakers will seablast the warden

if you dont taunt it

[trail dome]

all of them were seablasting it

[sweet summit]

yeah

[trail dome]

when i did it

[still pagoda]

wanted to pull Raal with all the shit in the room

[trail dome]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bWEYU5r2ih1BBdUaHb3GN2

This is my highest ST sim as arms

[still pagoda]

hunter and rogue decided not to give me MD and tricks

and literally ruined pull and left

[trail dome]

i wonder if I should just raid as fury until my arms gear catches up

[still pagoda]

RIP +18

[trail dome]

er, as prot*

[sweet summit]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sdWW1MZFQk1XJenxunGHqc

i am small sim arms gamer

:(

[trail dome]

still >2* mine

pls send gear

[still pagoda]

honestly

why there's so many crabs in 18's

that literally don't MD/tricks and don't get scared away by big pulls

Man you pulled the boss with trash that's not ok i'm leaving

[sweet summit]

one tip for raal, get a speedpot and run through all packs then run to raal

clap and profit

[sick sentinel]

^

I literally only use MD/tricks to snap

[still pagoda]

well

i needed them to snap

[trail dome]

@sick sentinel and i appreciate you

[still pagoda]

but still

[trail dome]

i love when people md / tricks to pull to me

[sick sentinel]

real talk, what potions should i be using for shrine?

[trail dome]

i add hunters / rogues that do it well

[sweet summit]

HP pots

[trail dome]

@sick sentinel abyssal health potion

[still pagoda]

pugs get scared away by big pulls 24/7

[sick sentinel]

HP potion?

[sweet summit]

abyssal health potion

[sick sentinel]

thought u would say a dps one

[trail dome]

also lightfoot

health pots are OP people don't use them enough

[still pagoda]

^

and old 50% speed potions

[sick sentinel]

i have nitro boosts on a 475 belt so i got that covered

Unbridled first bosses and empowered proximity/strength for packs

[nova idol]

Any tips for shrine and TD in particular? they're the last 2 15s I need to time

[still pagoda]

Shrine is easy. Just get more trash before first boss without touching eles and skip all the bullshit with pillars

TD? WELCOME TO HELL

[sweet summit]

shrine is sleeper key on teeming

literally pulling the entire dungeon cba

[trail dome]

i just strength pot unless it's a v srs key tbh

Don't @ me

but i'm not made of money

i spent all my legion boosting gold on boes on my hpal 👀

[sweet summit]

i only prepot bosses

[nova idol]

Biggest issue I've run into with shrine is the MC on 3rd boss

[sweet summit]

yeah thats a big stop if the gamers dont know how to game it

[trail dome]

@sweet summit stop prepotting bosses and prepot the omega huge pulls.

io > overall > friendship > money

gotta remember that

[sweet summit]

TD will carry my damage

[trail dome]

omg

my prot sim is 5k dps behind my arms sim on ST

this is tragic

[sweet summit]

ahahaah WTF

[trail dome]

ok not 5k

[sweet summit]

i havent simed my prot for ST in a good while

[trail dome]

but uh

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bWEYU5r2ih1BBdUaHb3GN2

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9y5CpTpyxD7BG9ddgXnMW2

🙁

[sweet summit]

do a 5 minute sim and the arms number will skyrocket

idk why you're simming 4 minutes tbh

[still pagoda]

NA guys

please

spotlight vendor for us

once it cycles

[trail dome]

just picked a random number

don't shame how long i can last ok

[sweet summit]

😳

[trail dome]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jTjSjTURB6zzy6vFKSboq7

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5eccwxsA24vrkqUjpzTXNB

you weren't wrong

[sweet summit]

ofc, 4 minutes you dont get lucid in execute

5 minutes you do

simple math 😎

[trail dome]

i mean you do you just have to hold it

[sweet summit]

the sim does not

[trail dome]

well

the sim needs to git gud

[sweet summit]

tru

[trail dome]

ask the sim to install time to die

[pastel sleet]

470 vial of animate blood
430 dragonscale
430 subroutine overclock device
465 butchers block
450 briny barnicle
what are yalls thoughts on what i should run?

[trail dome]

btw is there a better time to die addon these days

the fk is vial

[sweet summit]

underrot trinket

uhh

[trail dome]

i would say raidbots.com

[sweet summit]

block and something

[trail dome]

it's gonna be block

and then idk

sim it

[pastel sleet]

just sim for damage and call it gg?

[sweet summit]

yep

[pastel sleet]

bet

[pastel sleet]

well they are all within 1% of eachother

i guess that is comforting

[trail dome]

in that case go ilvl

so you look better for pugs

[pastel sleet]

wouldnt haste be the tie breaker for mitigation?

[sweet summit]

when you sign up, your bag ilvl shows not your equiped ilvl

i like haste

: )

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4aJzdELXL6sU7AFg4qTzYy

block sims higher :(

[bold nimbus]

Hello fellas got a question for this week afixes , atm im runing with vop major , minors : strenght, memory and /dynamo or aegis minor . My question is should i put anima as major for big pulls or stick with the upper ones ?

[sweet summit]

vita rezan dream dead

anima minor is very very very very bad

the major could be good if it wasnt on such a long CD

but the minor is shooting yourself in the leg

[trail dome]

i usually look at people's actual io page for my keys

[bold nimbus]

Dont have anima as major

[sweet summit]

you lose the extra HP when you need it, AKA low hp

[trail dome]

to see if they bought / what they're wearing etc

[bold nimbus]

Or minor atm

[sweet summit]

id keep what you have, CnS instead of aegis if possible

[trail dome]

i don't have cns minor yet

tempted to farm it as prot rather than arms tbh

just TD some people

i did get 2.2 as arms before but my arms gear is so bad

and i can't imagine ToM is good in pvp either

[sweet summit]

nah i think you want CA for pvp

[daring marlin]

CA/GS slap

[sweet summit]

i am very bad at pvp i just played fury and zugzuged the enemy healer to 1.6k and called it a day there

[trail dome]

that's the slam one right?

[sweet summit]

yeah

[trail dome]

hmmm

my arms pvp gear might actually be pog

compared to my pve gear

i have some high ilvl CA pieces 🤔

i really like arms utility in pvp. I wish you got like duel, disarm, war banner etc all the time. That stuff would be dope in m+

Imagine being able to like duel a bloodscreamer

[sweet summit]

you can have all of those and still have sharpen with CnS major :))))

[pastel sleet]

at what ilvl do you smart people start prioritizing haste and verse? (for m+)

[trail dome]

is cns major what people play?

@pastel sleet if you have to ask you're not there yet

~25-26

[sweet summit]

CnS or Breath major afaik

[trail dome]

yeah that makes sense

it takes 4 weeks to get cns right?

[sweet summit]

at 1.6k yeah

one week for r2 and 3 from r2 to r3 at 1.6k

[sick sentinel]

yo guys would 4% null dmg in m+ justify that slot?

[trail dome]

ugh

[sweet summit]

na i only play null in WS and sometimes in ML

you mostly pick null for the damage part and its only good on ST

since its split damage in aoe

[trail dome]

can you give me a list of bosses you don't SBlock on btw rosjen

[sick sentinel]

yea thats why im asking

[trail dome]

is it just p1 mechagon, rixxa, mogul

[sweet summit]

p1 king mechagon, last 2 ML, Zul

skitra if you're ever raiding

[trail dome]

ok cool, cheers

[warm plinth]

You know something I was wondering about and haven’t checked logs on yet, do the dervishes in Temple melee? Or is it all magic damage?

[sweet summit]

they dont melee, no

[still pagoda]

+17WCM

[sweet summit]

those cursed bosses are the only bosses i track my IP value

[trail dome]

oh dervishes is another place to not Sblock i guess

[sweet summit]

SB for big SS dam

[trail dome]

idk man

dervishes fucking slap

[sweet summit]

just have a hunter solo them :))))))))))))

[still pagoda]

healer DCed right during countdown for Raal pull

[sweet summit]

🙃

[orchid frigate]

weekend!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfkts0u-m6w

[chilly brook]

Mmm looking forward to letting people die in the key today @warm plinth

[sweet summit]

anyone streaming that??

[chilly brook]

I thought someone said they were going to

[warm plinth]

Me too

I’m streaming it

[sweet summit]

pls @ me with a link

[warm plinth]

I will

[sweet summit]

❤️

[chilly brook]

Finally killed m vex last night

[sweet summit]

EU friendly hours pls

ayyy

[still pagoda]

EU friendly hours

ok

dropping key even lower

+16

fuck retarded healers

[orchid frigate]

what happened?

[pale talon]

boys i need your help what is best in your opinion Mythic Humming black dragon scale or 465 rezan gleaming eye with 105 leach for m+ ?

[still pagoda]

healer DCed right on pull of raal with whole room

[orchid frigate]

meh

[still pagoda]

dunno if intentionally or not

previously, in +18

healer left right after slacking on this exact same pull

"This was not in my plans"

[sweet summit]

@pale talon id take scale because of the ilvl difference

[trail dome]

can't win karton

[pale talon]

@sweet summit i feel the same but those 105 leach are testing me

[trail dome]

if you play heal you get awful tanks

play tank you get awful healers

[onyx vessel]

[trail dome]

[chilly brook]

All hours are EU friendly hours if you try hard enough

[sweet summit]

leech is irrelevant in that comparison @pale talon

[onyx vessel]

Dont pug

👍

[pale talon]

@sweet summit u probably right

[still pagoda]

All hours are EU friendly hours if you try hard enough [2]

[chilly brook]

@trail dome tbh as a tank I run into far more DPS that dont deserve the io they have

[trail dome]

i think that's cause the floor of what oyu need to do as a healer in m+ is so low

[limpid pawn]

Hm, pulling the whole room with raal seems risky no?

[trail dome]

the difference between a fucking pumper healer and one who just does what they need to do is what like

30k dps

[sweet summit]

@limpid pawn thats what i do

[chilly brook]

I guess

[sweet summit]

90% of the time it works every time

[trail dome]

like i bet you any money i could play guardian affinity rdruid to 3.5k without trouble

[orchid frigate]

most healers i get to pug with (or friends) rarely do over 15k dps

[trail dome]

exactly

[limpid pawn]

I wouldn’t personally trust any pug healer with that lol

[chilly brook]

At least they're doing dps

[orchid frigate]

had a guildie that did a pug with gigabob which ended up top dps in a +15

[chilly brook]

A lot of times I just get healers that do 0 dps

[sweet summit]

gigabob is big

[orchid frigate]

ngl he is giga

[limpid pawn]

Me too, most heals do like 7k dps

That I pug with

[trail dome]

ye

but it doesn't really matter

[chilly brook]

But tbh in a pug I'd rather have them not do damage and keep idiots alive

[trail dome]

they're doing like

[sweet summit]

the healer i play with would rather see me die than exit catform

[trail dome]

idk 20-30k less dps than pumper healers would

[chilly brook]

Because there's a lot of stupid that happens in pugs

[trail dome]

but if you get a shit dps doing tank dmg

vs a pumper dps doing 130k overall

it's a huge difference

[chilly brook]

Facts

[orchid frigate]

the healer i usually play with says he dislikes the idea of healers doing dps 😦

[chilly brook]

I hear that a lot

[trail dome]

tell him to find a different game

[orchid frigate]

he likes "pure healing"

[trail dome]

[orchid frigate]

hehe

[sweet summit]

holy priest by any chance? 👀

[chilly brook]

But then I think "what else would I be doing with these empty globals as a healer"

[trail dome]

rsham

[orchid frigate]

shaman now

[trail dome]

CALLED IT

[sweet summit]

BATTLESHAMAN

[trail dome]

its always fucking shamans dude

[sweet summit]

3x IP or bust

[orchid frigate]

and he doesnt talent into the only external they have 😦

[trail dome]

@chilly brook precasting greater heal and cancelling obv

[sweet summit]

earthshield is an external?

[chilly brook]

But seriously though idk how healers can actually want to afk for a decent portion of a fight

[trail dome]

idk i like pumping dmg

hpal main btw

[chilly brook]

I haven't had that mentality since I started playing mmo's

[trail dome]

but when i queue tank and get some chode doing 9k overall dps

as a healer

it's frustrating af

[chilly brook]

Yo how do I play hpal

I gotta prep for this key

[trail dome]

in m+

?

[chilly brook]

Ye

[trail dome]

always have consc down

[sweet summit]

dont prep

you're supposed to be scuffed

[trail dome]

what key is it

[chilly brook]

Idk what key it is

[trail dome]

consc > else it's best dmg gcd

[chilly brook]

By virtue of not actually playing the spec I'm going to be scuffed

[sweet summit]

only holyshock for dps

[trail dome]

if you have glimmer rolling on your party then when you hshock mobs it will heal your glimmered party and the healing xfers to tank too

[chilly brook]

Lol

[orchid frigate]

rosjen, was thinking of that earthshield totem

[trail dome]

so you can just dps mobs

cast hshock on different mobs to cleave glimmer

[sweet summit]

earthen wall totem?

[trail dome]

use HA & Wings together for big dam

[orchid frigate]

ah

yeah

[chilly brook]

Bet lemme only cast shock on mobs

[sweet summit]

ahh

YES

[trail dome]

you don't have to like

try and keep glimmer up on your party

it kinda just naturally ends up on them

[sweet summit]

give yourself beacon

[trail dome]

just focus on doing dam & spot heal

[chilly brook]

Glimmer is too big brain for my small brain

[orchid frigate]

myself rolled a rdudu since i was appealed by doing dps and heal all rolled into one

but never get to play it

since theres always a need of tanks

[trail dome]

i'm kinda tempted to try get 3.5k rio only doing guardian affinity

i bet i could

rdruid is so digustingly strong in m+

[sweet summit]

if i can heal a 17 as rdruid

it has to be braindead

[trail dome]

i mean

so i think my rdruid is only like 2.2k or something

but it's kinda scuffed io that doesn't have every key and shit

[orchid frigate]

for some reason i find it easier with rdudu than MW which is supposed to be most beginner friendly

[trail dome]

but sub 20 you can heal through most stuff just by having efflo down and LB on tank

[sweet summit]

thats what i do

[trail dome]

yup

[sweet summit]

and wild growth from time to time if i have to

[trail dome]

3k rdruid player rosjen

[orchid frigate]

spam regrowth for the luls

[trail dome]

pls

we spam swipe

[sweet summit]

i fucking hate spamming regrowth

[orchid frigate]

🙂

[sweet summit]

every global im not in catform is a global wasted

[orchid frigate]

wild growth is cozy

[trail dome]

honestly if i didn't end up going tank for my friendos

i'd be playing rdruid right now

the thing that convinced me was uh

do you guys remember push week a while ago

ppl were going for rly high junkyards on stream & stuff

[sweet summit]

week 6?

[trail dome]

yeah

watching zmok heal gunker 27

and it's like

[sweet summit]

ye

[trail dome]

sweat rushing off his brow

[sweet summit]

ahaahha

[trail dome]

chaining HA into wings into sac & DP

aura mastery

personals

health pot

ok HA is back up

whew we did it

watching naenae

5 rejuvs

LB on andy

efflo

swipe

rip

rake

[sweet summit]

[orchid frigate]

zmok really seems to enjoy his pala tho

[stiff oracle]

wtf is happening here

[trail dome]

i was like

well fk this it's time to go rdruid i guess

but now i'm prot

honestly i'm really glad i picked prot over brm

[sweet summit]

the better prot i hope

[trail dome]

It's a lot more active

[orchid frigate]

yeah prot is more fun

[limpid pawn]

I got both and Brew just feels weak in keys

[trail dome]

i think that with mast amp my prot paladin will slap in keys fwiw

depending on the IT nerfs

[limpid pawn]

Lower APM

[trail dome]

The RP triple dip in IT is honestly crazy

they're nerfing my fist of justice though 🙁

[orchid frigate]

yeah brew feels a lot more squishy and need much more attention from the healer

[chilly brook]

Zmok is a beast though

[sweet summit]

zmok is really good, yeh

[chilly brook]

Dude actually makes you want to play a paladin

[trail dome]

yup

The guy is so good at doing damage on hpal it's nutty

[orchid frigate]

yeah

[trail dome]

Has similar overalls to ellesmere a lot of the time and ellesmere plays formless

[orchid frigate]

hes one of those that do good on whatever he plays

[trail dome]

ye like rosjen

amazing warrior

amazing rdruid

bring the player not the class

[sweet summit]

😂

[orchid frigate]

bring the rosjen like we use to say

[trail dome]

yeah

revvez might break record

[orchid frigate]

wonder when naowh and company will overtake the rio

[trail dome]

but rosjen breaks the rules

records*

[orchid frigate]

from andybrew and co

[trail dome]

probably never

that team has to take regular breaks for mdi

[orchid frigate]

true

and they have gingi

[sweet summit]

nah, andy's team is better and more consistent from what ive seen

im still waiting for the day where guardian druid is top rio

i believe

[orchid frigate]

well there is one

[warm plinth]

Hey man, where's the support for our prot war brother Rosjen

[orchid frigate]

thats almost top

[sweet summit]

yeah, tomoboar god

[orchid frigate]

mhm

[warm plinth]

Down with monks!

[sweet summit]

D:

[chilly brook]

Tomo was top

It did happen

[sweet summit]

was

[chilly brook]

Andy just didn't want to let it stay that way

[sweet summit]

[trail dome]

ye warrior sucks

nerf brm

[sweet summit]

confirmed prot warr needs UF nerf reverted

[warm plinth]

lul

I did a couple keys last night on my warrior. I'm definitely still a bit rusty but I thought they went pretty well.

Had to practice for the big game today

[sweet summit]

oooo i get tank PoV

[broken cedar]

any tips for entering into the +10 key realm? Well nervous about doing one :>

[sweet summit]

a 10 is easier than a 9, the obelisks allow for huge skips in most dungeons

[trail dome]

The scariest bit about that for me was that i didn't know route

[broken cedar]

think its the skips that scare me, not knowing them and most groups tend to just follow the tank

[trail dome]

s

[sweet summit]

just watch out for the tank buster, his spirit breaker ability can not be blocked. but try to have shield block up for his auto attacks after that

you have good weekly routes off of raider.io

[warm plinth]

Well, the great thing about 10s is that if you scuff a skip, it really doesn't matter

Because you can pull 10s one pack at a time and still time the dungeon if it comes down to it

[sweet summit]

can simply copy those

[trail dome]

Yes. @broken cedar i'd advise watching a tank streamer you like, or some videos on youtube or something, to get a good handle on that kind of thing.

Definitely seconding the point about the weekly io routes

they help a lot

[still pagoda]

teeming WCM with pugs is

[warm plinth]

I think you mean

[sweet summit]

another brick?

[still pagoda]

yes

[broken cedar]

any recommendations on good keys to start with, are there any a bit more easier than others to start with?

[still pagoda]

probably

[sweet summit]

freehold tbh

[still pagoda]

still 15 minutes left and 2 last bosses with pack in between them

[trail dome]

i pugged it on 17 earlier and it was totally fine until the downstairs bit

when alma ended up with 6 stacks of soul fetish

[sweet summit]

atal has some weird obelisk placements, so ideally you should be a bit more comfortable as a tank before trying that imo

[trail dome]

i know you often hand out a single yike but that was a definite yikes plural momen

t

[sweet summit]

is alma the one downstairs ye?

[trail dome]

yup

died through wall

forgot to obs so couldn't review replay to see what i coulda done better

🙁

[mortal brook]

@still pagoda its https://bestkeystone.com/#/runs

(late reply ♥)

[still pagoda]

oh

really late

got kicked out of their disk already

[mortal brook]

doh

[sweet summit]

what am i looking at here steve

[trail dome]

https://mplus.subcreation.net/all-affixes.html

If we're on stats

i like this one

[broken cedar]

oh cool thanks

hm would you drop 159 vers for 148 haste

[sweet summit]

at equal ilvl?

[broken cedar]

same ilvl

[sweet summit]

i would, i love haste

[strong forum]

Haste 📈
Vers 📉

[broken cedar]

ty

[tame garden]

Pls dont bm vers

[still pagoda]

sleeping on the move

and smh this +16 was timed

i need to get more sleep next night

had only 5 hours of sleep this onwe

[lapis pond]

Psh 5 hours of sleep is more than enough

[still pagoda]

but not when you do 8 hours of studies right after them

i'm literally falling rn

gonna just hold off till 11PM and then go to bed

refining this shit rn(after doing most of the dungeon somewhat not optimally)

honestly

just wanna skip obelisk in the basement

matron and the pack near the pillar are just pure garbage

[limpid pawn]

You pull the whole courtyard at once ?

[broken cedar]

is it better to have x2 deafening crash or x1 deafening and x1 brace for impact

[sweet summit]

1x DC 1x BfI

ideally you only have 1xDC

[exotic spoke]

Hi prot qtpies

[warm plinth]

Welcome back Riki

[exotic spoke]

It’s been like 1 day lol

[warm plinth]

@broken cedar 1x DC, 1 Brace

Yep, I know.

[exotic spoke]

Sigh

[amber siren]

[broken cedar]

ty

[still pagoda]

You pull the whole courtyard at once ?
@limpid pawn yes

[tame garden]

@exotic spoke welcome back

[exotic spoke]

Thanks qtpie Speg

:rooHeart:

[lean arch]

do we use a different azerite setup raid vs m+?

[buoyant walrus]

Why is CFS minor used more than Aegis? Doesn’t Aegis offer more vers?

[warm plinth]

I'm assuming you mean Conflict & Strife?

[lean arch]

520 vers you can get vs single target from cns

[warm plinth]

Aegis provides more vers only if you're tanking like 8+ targets (iirc, that's the number). Any time you're not, C&S wins

[lean arch]

or 820 that requires 10 enemies to be in your grill

[strong forum]

you need 7+ targets for aegis to beat CNS

and cns has 100% uptime

and aegis loses a stack as soon as stuff dies

[warm plinth]

And essentially does nothing on bosses

[strong forum]

^

[tulip finch]

Maybe this is an incredibly dumb question, but I'm trying to test out prot tanking for a bit on my warrior that his been predominantly DPS this expac. What is the best way of getting a shield? I've been running Prot loot spec for a few days now and it seems difficult to get up and running - I've got a 1her so far but no shield

[still pagoda]

aegis is pretty good this week though

[buoyant walrus]

Ahhh gotcha that makes sense. Somehow reading their abilities that thought went over my head haha

[still pagoda]

[warm plinth]

Just gotta farm dungeons and shit unfortunately Jake

[tulip finch]

blizzard in 2020 kekw

thanks

[still pagoda]

first day of looking for raiding guild. No results so far. Gonna just continue

[lean arch]

it's how you got a shield in 2006, also

[warm plinth]

It's really fun that in all the loot catch-up they do, they always like to neglect shields and weapons

[tulip finch]

it's a shame the timewalking vendor sells 1hers and 2hers but not shields for some reason

[sick sentinel]

You can buy shields on AH for hella cheap

[lean arch]

is all raid azerite our best setup, or is there a residuum piece to aim for?

[sick sentinel]

Raid pieces are actually kinda bad

they are ok but not the best generally

Workshop shoulders and Chest are generally better than mythic pieces, even mythic carapace

[lean arch]

i'm uh

[loud shoal]

for keys I'd run nzoth helm with vex chest and skitra shoulders

[lean arch]

finding that hard to believe

[loud shoal]

heart of darknes stats are very good

[sick sentinel]

N'zoth helm is the best

Workshop shoulders and workshop chest is the best

For keys that is

[loud shoal]

if you can't have mythic helm then hel mof abyssal malevolence

[sick sentinel]

the clockwork proc continues to cont down out of combot

combat*

so any obelisk opening, pull timers, RPs, Setting up pulls

makes the workshop value sky rocket

[loud shoal]

the problem with clockwork is that you can't really manipulate it in a live key setting imo

[lean arch]

and kiting makes the value plummet

[warm plinth]

I'll make your value skyrocket

[sick sentinel]

Kiting?

Why would you kite as a prot warrior

and what does kiting have anything to do with anything

?

[warm plinth]

You'd have to kite specifically when it procs for it to make the value plummet, which is the case for literally any proc. The only difference is that this proc happens at a fixed point

[sick sentinel]

and you don't manipulate it, just like you don't manipulate any other trait 🤔

[loud shoal]

clockwork will proc once per min regardless so it's not always going to be optimal, I personally would rather have the constant stats provided by heart of darkness

as a tank

[sick sentinel]

You have clockwork 99% of the time at the start of a pull

[warm plinth]

You have to be in combat for it to proc

So idk what you mean

[sick sentinel]

Heart of darkness is just

worst

lol

[loud shoal]

yea in combat

[warm plinth]

The way that CH works, it's actually better than a normal proc because as Kyothi said, a lot of times it's going to proc at the start of a pull

Which means it's probably going to be active during Avatar

Idk why you think it has to be gamed or optimized. We don't hold any other proc to those standards

[sick sentinel]

If you have both shoulders and chest, That's 3200 stats for 12 seconds at every single pull basically

lmao

and big numbers get affected by % corruptions linearly so you gain A LOT of value from it

Heart isn't close to what workshop gives

[loud shoal]

the gaming has more to do with dps than for tanking so you have 3200 every min with clockwork, maybe it lines up with avatar, you're already invincible during avatar vs 602 stats forever

I'm not saying clockwork is wrong I'm saying what I prefer

[amber siren]

more stats during your burst window is generally where you would want it

[sick sentinel]

^

[loud shoal]

for dps sure

for living no

[sick sentinel]

You act like having the heart stats out of avatar

does shit

lmao

literally doesn't affect you at all

[amber siren]

avatar is a big as a defensive cd as it is a dps one

[sick sentinel]

the faster the pack dies

the more defensives you have

🤔

[strong forum]

with 2x Cwh + 3x bom you will have 94% mastery during avatar

meaning it is in fact

a massive defensive

[loud shoal]

yea but my point is that without clockwork you are already invinvile during avatar so it's not adding much value there

[sick sentinel]

You're adding the value of getting a huge dps gain, the faster the pack dies the better

and it's on every single pull

[loud shoal]

I mean if chw is so great why are none of the top m+ tanks running it?

[sick sentinel]

Literally all of the top prot warriors

[amber siren]

[sick sentinel]

don't sim

nor follow a standard or find new things to do

They literally

just tank

You act like they play their class perfectly at the highest standard

[strong forum]

naowh thinks cwh is better for an MDI setting rather than high keys, which i dont agree with, he values IV more for some reason

[loud shoal]

have double IV does a lot of healing

or tiple even

I mean the name of the game is living in high keys right? I think that's why tanks run the IV, HoD setup

[strong forum]

yet they dont do more "healing"

[loud shoal]

dmg doesn't matter too much from the tanks, that's why most of them have switched off of TD and starting running vers builds

[sick sentinel]

The top tank still does some sort of TD

🤔

[loud shoal]

who the one from china?

[sick sentinel]

TD, + IT and a small amount of Vers %

he's still play TD

No, nerf

I'm pretty sure other prots agree too

[loud shoal]

I'd have to ask him if he's still in that boat or not, I know he's not pushing anymore and that naowh and rads ahve switched to vers

[sick sentinel]

i mean it s as always, if you think you wont survive shit, go vers, if you survive shit and still uses vers, you will sabotage group cuz no 80k+ dps in dungeons

[loud shoal]

it's all about what your groups needs for sure. M+ is about adapting around your group

[amber siren]

a lot of full vers + IT builds are still just in the 'throw shit at the wall and see what sticks'
period that the corruption vendor allows

for right now, td is still used in the highest keys to be timed and i genuinely don't see that changing

[loud shoal]

I disagree that TD needs to be ran at the highest lvl that people are currently running

look at andybrew and the keys naowh and rad are doing now

[strong forum]

andy is a monk

[loud shoal]

they are running vers builds

[strong forum]

monks require vers to stay alive

thats a whole different discussion

[amber siren]

rads rn is doing a 25, which is definitely not world first key levels

[loud shoal]

they wer ejust doing 26s and 27's

noawh and rad

[strong forum]

missing out on 20k+ dps when its not 100% necessary is questionable

[sick sentinel]

[sweet summit]

ayy

[amber siren]

[lean arch]

what are we looking at?

[sick sentinel]

2 chest 14

been banging head against wall to figure it out, want to do it on 15

[loud shoal]

I'm not saying you should or shouldn't run TD or Vers. In the end it's about your philosophy as a tank and what your group needs.

[amber siren]

the last key i can see that rads timed was a 27 TD with td rank 3

[trail dome]

i think that there may come a point where there's a discussion to be had about uhm

if you play more vers you can pull bigger which is better for overall group dps potentially

but i don't think it's at that point yet.

[sick sentinel]

Not true

[loud shoal]

raider io is incorrect he was running versx6 ineff 2 for the 27

[strong forum]

you cant pull bigger in 99.9% of the cases

[sick sentinel]

YOu don't play around vers

🤔

[trail dome]

And I think thhe biggest limiting factor is melee kicks.

[amber siren]

most large pulls fall short in terms of control rather than raw damage mitigated

[strong forum]

^

[trail dome]

Rather than tank survivability or healer output

[strong forum]

biggest limit is the mechanics you ahve to play around, not dmg intake on the tank

[trail dome]

Is that not what I just said

[strong forum]

yes

[loud shoal]

you see what I said @amber siren he was running vers 3x6 ineff 1 x2

[trail dome]

So I feel like all you're doing by adding vers is probably just adding consistency if there are some spicy pulls you might die on.

[sick sentinel]

but you said this https://prnt.sc/sq7nes

so we are clarifying

[trail dome]

Ah yes, take one part out of context.

xd

[sick sentinel]

I mean

that's literally what you said

and we were responding to that

??????????

[trail dome]

What I actually said was

"i think that there may come a point where there's a discussion to be had about uhm"

before that

which is kind of important

[sick sentinel]

Doesn't change anything

🤔

doesn't even seem remotely connected

[trail dome]

i think that there may come a point where there's a discussion to be had about uhm
if you play more vers you can pull bigger which is better for overall group dps potentially
but i don't think it's at that point yet.
And I think thhe biggest limiting factor is melee kicks.
Rather than tank survivability or healer output

This is what I actually said

[amber siren]

@loud shoal yeah i saw that, i can't say much more since i didn't see the run and apparently it didn't record correctly

[sick sentinel]

You said that after tho

I said that before you said that

🤔

[loud shoal]

when you look at keys in radier io it always shows the gear that the person is wearing when they logged off, it never records what was worn during the actual run

[trail dome]

Not interested in discussing that further bud.

[amber siren]

@loud shoal you're right, just checked the vod - full vers and IT corruption

[trail dome]

I have a habit of pressing enter as punctuation, I'm not interested in you trying to nitpick shit I didn't say.

Knock yourself out.

[sick sentinel]

huh

what are you talking about

lol

It's not only me who responded to that

We were only clarifying

calm down

I really don't care

It's annoying having to deal with this

i mean naowh is doing 25keys right now ? so i think the vers build thingy didnt go well

[loud shoal]

apparently you don't know how pushing works gib

[warm plinth]

Well, just because they didn't time 26s/27s doesn't mean their build was the issue :p

They make mistakes just like the rest of us

[sick sentinel]

🙂

so it isnt about vers shit but how you play right?

[trail dome]

Naowh did say himself after the tos 27 that maybe he had to play TD there.

To make the timer.

have*

[warm plinth]

That's most of it. The build does come into play at a certain level of course

[trail dome]

He felt like even with perfect play they'd still be about 30s or so over.

But he also added that he wasn't sure he could live the 2 big pulls without the vers build.

[warm plinth]

But at those levels it's all about min/maxing, and perfect play is a requirement.

[loud shoal]

I just take issue when people say one thing is for sure better than the other. In the end it just comes down to the situation that you're in and what your group needs. There are many viable builds

[trail dome]

I think it's really complicated honestly.

I think it's about identifying your limiting factors.

[loud shoal]

for sure

[trail dome]

If it's tank survivability, like, if you get to a level where tank death is a realistic issue on a regular pack of 4 mobs then obviously you need to gear for more survivability.

[sharp night]

the thing is, math and experience show that in timed content, more damage is better, and unless you are doing the highest content then gearing for survivability at the cost of a large amount of damage is a bad trade

[trail dome]

But where I think it gets really messy is if there's some big pull that you need to gear for survivability to survive then you need to weigh the option of gearing to live for that pull, or maybe pulling slightly smaller but being able to deal more damage for the entire rest of the key.

[sharp night]

because what limits pulls is generally not tank survivability

[trail dome]

And I think what vince is saying here is spot on, basically.

[sharp night]

it's the rest of the group and how many kicks or ccs you can put out

[trail dome]

There was a really interesting point about uhm, I think it was a pull in Junkyard that Andybrew was talking about recently.

Which is a pull that warriors can't do because they just flop. But he said that it works out about the same because while warriors can't pull as large as he can in that instance on his brm, there are other areas they make it up, and they have higher overall in general on trash.

And you can take that example and replace Brm & Warrior with Vers & TD, respectively.

🤷‍♂️

I think we just need a lot of testing, and I think actual best options will differ based on pathing & affixes.

For a pleb like me though, it's TD all the way down.

[lean arch]

what pull can't warriors do that brm can?

[trail dome]

I'm not sure what the pull was.

And I'm not committed enough to go through andy's vods from like.... maybe a week ago? to find it.

That guy streams like a million hours a day every day.

[amber siren]

i'm guessing it's pulls that extend past a usual SB/LS/SB rotation but that would have to be a pretty big and long pull

[toxic gyro]

Junkyard is all physical dmg on the tanks pretty much