still pagoda
i guess, i just dont cry over BrM, they've been practically top progression raid tanks for many many many tiers since MoP and they're currently the top M+ tank, though it's one guy lol
@prisma crane
Exactly. I'm moving over to BrM as my new main char(since it is the only one on the server i decided to move over to) and adore it. But it has its own problems
Base damage and corruption hard cap parts will come knocking at my door soon enough
sweet summit
@fast dove no
fast dove
Thanks @sweet summit
wicked orchid
Since we are on topic of Azerite gear, should I go for clockwork heart?
wicked orchid
Should I do it over a Brace for Impact? If I were to do it over Brace for Impact I would not have any with my current gear
sweet summit
at equal ilvl?
wicked orchid
Yes, they are in the same tier on the same piece
wicked orchid
Alright, I was going to go for CwH but I wasn't sure if I should give up Brace for Impact, thanks!
proven breach
Is more than one cwh good? Does the stat stack or do they have individual cd?
sweet summit
yes, you want to stack cwh if possible
wicked orchid
Should I take HmC or Ablative Shielding?
wicked orchid
I'll be sure to follow that, thanks again!
sick sentinel
whats the most reliable class to take for removing enrage?
gunna do a 10 KR try to push it
warm plinth
Druids and Hunters are the only classes that can remove it, and they're equally effective at it. Both have a 10 second CD on it
sweet summit
the first real breakpoint is at 166%
sick sentinel
oh damn
undone sun
Realistically, no breakpoints to worry about
high nacelle
what loot spec do i have to be to get rezans trinket
scenic hollow
Any
Easiest way to check that shit is to open up the dungeon info thingy and then change loot specs in the filter in the loot tab. Shows what you can loot for each spec/class
spark creek
did anyone try stacking ineffable truth?
wary ivy
@scenic hollow pretty sure it drops for any war spec
and nah but im boutta max stack TD whenever that shit hits the vendor boiiii
scenic hollow
Yeah that what I said haha. I was replying to the dude above me asking.
wary ivy
oh my bad tagged the wrong dude lol
coarse ferry
CwH over HoD?
left hatch
yes
coarse ferry
A 12sec stat boost every minute over a constant 85 stats per HoD 100% of the time??? I dont get it
left hatch
the sheer amount of stats you can get coupled with the consistency of how it procs
coarse ferry
Once per min so 48 seconds you get nothing from it
left hatch
its not an RNG proc, its an internal cd
so itll always proc at the start of combat where its the most valuable
and even ignoring that consistency
at 430 CWH gives 1,392 stat with 20% uptime during the spiciest part of your pull
where HoD will give 288
so its the same logic of on use trinkets especially cases like Vial
oak helm
Trinkets you activate when needed thougb
left hatch
and there is no RNG component of CwH
oak helm
Where as procs may come at the worst times , its mostly about consistancy
oak helm
Even if the proc is guaranteed once per minute
Well unless u have alot of value from stats in those 12 sec, i feel like 100% uptime on less stats is better 😛
left hatch
eh end of the day the differences are minimal
but how most people pull in relevent content that value of stats decrease the longer combat goes on
again, its why trinkets like Vial are so great for output
or why in high keys Lucid is better than VoP
you pull around it to make the most use of giga cds
but regardless of if you chain pull or pull 1 pack at a time the value diff between the 2 doesn't really have a wrong answer, HoD is still very very good
just not quite as good if you're used to big pulls around your own or others cds or for overall output
if you're focused on raiding however HoD probs better
grave basalt
Can anyone link their tank armory, I'm slowly getting into it and want to see a M+ trait setup. If you guys can thanks!
left hatch
1xDC 3xBoM and fill in the last 2 with HoD/CwH/MS
thats the trait setup to shoot for
middle row is ideally OP or UF
innermost prioritize RP or IV
grave basalt
great thats!
sick sentinel
is vers nav typically best for M+?
got bis prot weapon from M carapace so wanna enchant and forget it lol
misty steeple
Is the mechagon "use 3 abilities..." ring worth using and corrupting? mine is 470.
left hatch
yes
misty steeple
Id obviously need the other have, but that one with the haste might be pretty useful id imagine.
left hatch
pairing it with the haste proc is very good
misty steeple
thats what i was thinking, good for prot and arms.
misty steeple
Nice 👍
chilly iris
Do I use H Wrathion wep with a socket (460) or the Cara mace no socket (470)?
left hatch
@sick sentinel be careful about what statline you're angling for in M+
people overvalue versa because they see people pushign world first keys stack it and use the Vers% amp
they only do this to survive being 1-shot with otherwise perfect play
which shouldn't be happening shy of like 24+ keys
for M+ you should be prioritizing Ilvl>haste>crit because point for point they give you more defensive value in like 90% of cases
left hatch
you didn't compare to force multiplier. and force multi undersims because it doesn't account for double procs
undone sun
fm still undersims
sick sentinel
so fm is better despite the sim?
left hatch
yes, it doesn't account for double procs lol
left hatch
basically anytime you hit avatar
outside of ava itll proc for haste, inside itll proc for mastery
rare imp
whats peoples thought on the best corruption to run now we can put it where we want?
left hatch
so for RN bis is 5TD if you wanna stay below 40
if you're ok with TFB you can grab an expedient 3
or an IT1
on top of your 5 TD's
wind haven
Yo guys, what would you say the best essences for prot warrior in visions scearios are? i have anima major atm but not sure if there's better. I just need pure dmg output
rare imp
cheers boys
left hatch
anima is never a good pick
major or minor
VoP is best for general use/defensives/aoe damage
in visions a lotta ppl run CoF since bosses take awhile
minors should still be the same CnS, Lucid and either sphere of Str of the warden
if you run coF you can sub in str for formless void
left hatch
in raid yeh
outside of that its niche
doesn't scale well into AoE like stat essences, and its very rarely consumed
so its kinda limp for both output and defense in most cases
maiden ravine
oh snap
you can corrupt crafted gear now
I guess I have an excuse to craft rings I guess
well soon
slow valve
yo what stat prio for farming 15-17s crit haste or vers i have a lot of expedient from playing arms but only 1 TD
maiden ravine
it's coming soon, it was announced 2 hours ago
ilvl is king
but for m+, you'll want haste and then crit
cinder fern
Getting a top 10 parse on M Vex after a night of dying pointlessly feels nice 😄 Dying pointlessly does not 😦
weak pebble
How is Ineffable Truth vs Expedient 3? Running TD4 for M+ and trying to fill the rest
left hatch
fill in the last with one more TD
left hatch
if you're ok going above 40 then IT has a slight edge defensively, Expedient is a nice mix of offence and defence
id just save then
weak pebble
i can run 2x IT1 and Expedient 3 / TD4 and stay under 40
or just 2x Expedient 3
This is for 17+, 471 equipped
left hatch
multiple IT's are overkill
and again, any combo of IT and expedient
isn't as good as just waiting till vendor has a TD1
weak pebble
oh okay
left hatch
if you wanna min max pick up an expedient 3 or IT1 (dealers choice)
weak pebble
I'll start saving Echoes, even though they seem to be a pain in the ass to farm
left hatch
yeh, why its not advisable to dump all of them into Expedients or ITs rn
weak pebble
I need TD3 to show up at some point
left hatch
when you can just wait... maybe a week at most
weak pebble
because both my TD3 pieces are on 440 gear
weak pebble
I got TD1 on my 475 haste/mastery pants on Tuesday so that's a keeper unless i manage to get a 475 crit/haste
left hatch
for sure
long term you can also bump that up to a TD3
since you'll have 'nice' TD pieces a lot sooner than budget will open up to let you have more TD pieces
can also think about dumping echoes into more vision runs to get all your gear socketed as well
ionic fern
I'd rather keep my sanity. 
weak pebble
Yeah my warrior had all the rank 3s so had to start with 0
left hatch
^ iv gotten a load just doing the assault and weekly cache
ah rotten luck
i started with a crisp 15k
ionic fern
Ngl, i'd probably just buy stupid stuff like Full leech or full IT to meme around.
left hatch
im lowkey ready for some high end key runners to go full IT
to get 100% avatar uptime
amber siren
100% leech 
left hatch
and then be met with "BUT I SAW XYZ DO IT SO IT MUST BE META"
doesn't leech cap anyway
or am i thinking avoidance
amber siren
avoidance caps at 30%, no idea about leech
ionic fern
30? Pretty sure it's 20% unless they changed it.
left hatch
i thought it was 20, but i also pay little attention to the tertiaries
i just miss multistrike
mortal brook
I miss things attached to multistrike. like ursa major
mortal brook
double shield spec
ez
at least 1 ability is just rolling around inside your shields
mortal brook
also make tankadin a proper crusader with 2her and shield
onyx vessel
It would work
mortal brook
and I need a FIFTH DRUID SPEC
onyx vessel
Tmog run a huge shield with a huge 2h
mortal brook
pet spec. Dryad form. chuck faerie dragons and baby moonkins at people
ionic fern
Know what would be sick?
If they made a spec that mimics other peoples abilities.
E.g "Press X to "steal" abilities from a targeted player and use them as your own for X seconds".
undone sun
hmmmm
mortal brook
shaarde the Greater. instead of shaarde the lesser 😮 😮 😮
ionic fern
Play alllllllll the classes.
onyx vessel
A dh?
onyx vessel
🤔
undone sun
🤣
mortal brook
shaarde the greater 😮
mortal brook
sick sentinel
Steve your mog is awful
empty nacelle
you gotta respect effort though
placid oar
Good afternoon guys, I was watching Naowh tanking to learn. He was stacking 2x IT, and remarked that it’s so good. Now I’m confused, would it actually be better for me to get 2x IT than 1x Expedient?
ionic fern
Get TD.
placid oar
Am trying to get the correct corruptions with the little echoes I have
Okay Mwahi
What do I get as filler after TD?
IT or expedient is better?
prisma crane
Vers
ionic fern
Do you already have a IT @placid oar ?
placid oar
I don’t
I have rank 4 TD with 3 pieces but I only have 6.8k echoes
I wanna save for TD but I’m afraid of missing out on expedient or IT
So I am thinking of which to purchase
ionic fern
They are both solid so you can't go wrong either way.
I'd probably go for 1xIT even tho Expedient is less RNG.
ionic fern
Yes. Especially if it procs at a solid time. Our CD's are short as it is and that just makes it even better
Don't lose out on TD tho. That's the big thing currently.
ionic fern
👍
placid oar
Okay got it
Oh yes
If I replace my Expedient piece with a IT
It is not worth it right?
prisma crane
up to you
prisma crane
personally i dont care for IT because i like more control
placid oar
Thought I should go IT for more CDs
prisma crane
it's good for the reasons Mwahi said
ionic fern
As i already said, they are both really solid.
Expedient is more reliable.
placid oar
Gratz Kyle
maiden ravine
it's no warrior or VDH
but it's not bad
throwing frisbees that interrupt is cool
placid oar
Ah okay, apologies as I’m just conflicted and wanted to pick the best.
ionic fern
What makes IT really shine is AM. Greatly reduced SS/Avatar/DS CD means more Rage which transfers into more Avatars/DS due to AM.
Literally personal preference tho.
Both are solid.
placid oar
Okay, thank you so much
maiden ravine
I ran IT1 on my paladin cause I'm 1 week behind on my resistance and thus couldn't fit the td5 yet
not that prot has the HP to really abuse TD
Was also workshop which isn't the best dungeon to see the fun numbers
warm plinth
Does prot paladin not have the same HP as prot war?
Just don't have the HP buffs we have
amber siren
prot warrior has a bit more
warm plinth
Ah
maiden ravine
yeah, my paladin has 5 ilvls on my warrior and the warrior has more hp
sick sentinel
Paladin blowz
maiden ravine
It's different and I just didn't want to heal
prisma crane
rip
amber siren
still pagoda
😳
sick sentinel
Hawgadin will forever remain on the shelf
maiden ravine
don't look at alpha then
sick sentinel
I am no slave to the meta
warm plinth
Prot paladin is really fun to me (late to the convo I guess)
hidden plaza
So on all this corruption talk TD is the way to go but on a high tyrannical key say KR Workshop would you run anything else or still just go with the TD? With GW nerf does it or say TA work for more ST dungeons?
left hatch
TD does more
because of our health pool
and yeh paladin is neat
the aoe Avengers Shield in SL too looks really neat
the only other corruption thats really comparable on st is EV
and its only on par with TD on st
so its still better to stack TD anyway for the trash Workshop does have, or cleave on first and 3rd boss
hidden plaza
TY
ionic fern
I got like TD 3 i think
ionic fern
Same.
polar raft
Are we expedient buyers or should we wait for TD?
maiden ravine
doing Legion WQs make me miss it so much
onyx vessel
Seems a little bit of a waste to buy td3 for 15k
still pagoda
it is not if you put it on good 475 base
left hatch
as opposed to...
still pagoda
^
left hatch
seems legit
bold flame
Twice a week
onyx vessel
Not for 5 mask visions
onyx vessel
Figured
marble cipher
Question: on reddit there's a thread about high performing tanks (MDI), and this answer is in there, I've never actually noticed this really happening and even though it seems to make sense, I would call bs on the statement but thought I'd ask here as well.
Watch their micro movements, taking a few steps back makes the mobs stop swinging. They take a few steps to get in range of you again. They keep resetting the swing timer, on a pull with a lot of mobs this reduces damage intake significantly. Nobody stays planted taking all the damage, you'll see them slowly moving, it almost looks like twitching backwards. Once you have tons of threat you can full kite if you need to.
Obviously tanks will move back, sometimes stuttering backwards but that's mainly with conflict major (for warriors) I've noticed.
But really doing this for swing timer resets, is that something I need to learn, or is that just this guy talking out of his a$$?
(https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveWoW/comments/gnerpo/tanks_in_mdi/ thread for reference)
And this answer goes even further, talking about strafing a group that comes out of cc to "stagger" their auto attacks
The OP is correct but left out that you need to be doing this when the mobs come out of a CC like stuns. You don’t want every mob hitting you at the same time bursting you. So let’s say you have 6 mobs fanned out in front of you and you shockwave. Strafe right or left slightly to allow the mobs that are on that side hit you coming out of the CC and the others will have to take varied amounts of steps to get in range to melee you. The swing timers are now staggered. You no longer have to do this movement unless they are reset.
amber siren
Might make a difference on mobs coming out of a stun with all their swing timers resetting, but you can't 'reset' a swing timer
Ok that was a confusing sentence
So like with all mobs coming out of their stun, they're all line up their swing timers since they weren't auto attacking during the stun duration - it'll be at 0
(Assuming the stun is longer than the swing)
ionic fern
I mean..it's basic knowledge that when you're not in range of the enemies they can't melee you? 👀
When it comes to Stunning, that holds true. If you stun a group of enemies and they come out of it at the same time they will all melee you more or less in "sync". In general this won't be a problem if you have mitigation up but can catch people by surprise.
amber siren
But if you move out of melee range and their swing timer comes off - they won't get a second swing timer, it'll remain at 0 until they smack you
Which is just a fancy way of saying kiting
marble cipher
So basically, those answers hold some value, but are mainly an elaborate way of saying you should try and kite here and there to avoid constant hits, which is something every tank is already doing anyway as you won't ever really just stand still for the entire time the pack is alive? (well, I guess there are people that just jump in and unbind their wasd keys though =D)
ionic fern
You should kite when you run out of mitigation (SB/Last Stand).
marble cipher
yeah, that's what I do, was just wondering if I should try and strafe groups and stutter backwards for those swing timer shenannigans
amber siren
Well yeah, usually you're kiting because you're avoiding something that is going to murder you, either because you're out of CD's or a mob is bolstered and will fist you given the chance
But no one is kiting to reset melee swing timers
ionic fern
The only reason you want to stutter backwards is to position so that ALL the enemies are infront of you and won't be hitting your back.
marble cipher
k, thanks!
still pagoda
The only reason you want to stutter backwards is to position so that ALL the enemies are infront of you and won't be hitting your back.
Honestly, i have to do this 24/7 as BrM
Fucking BoF
marble cipher
As BrM I tend to move a lot more than on my other tanks too, for BoF coverage and also just for strafing over ox orbs.
But yeah, it often feels like mobs actively run behind me to avoid my BoF 🤣
still pagoda
like. It's only my second day on monk at 120
and i already hate how narrow BoF cone is
marble cipher
you'll get used to it, but it would be lovely if it would've been a bigger cone tbf yeah
still pagoda
revenge/cleave level cone to be fair
marble cipher
y
sullen valve
@ionic fern why is crit good?
still pagoda
parry and damage
ionic fern
This is why
ionic fern
I will slap you.
sullen valve
I read that in the method guide
ionic fern
amber siren
🗞️
sullen valve
@ionic fern duo stream when
ionic fern
@sullen valve
sullen valve
sullen valve
ionic fern
I have to save that picture with all my parries so i can shoot it at people when they ask why we use Crit for m+.
👀
still pagoda
👀
hollow skiff
I still new to prot, but when i look at the top log i see them stacking Vers/haste...
Is this just a top log thing then, and i should stay crit/haste?
amber siren
top logs are people running keys that are one shotting them
unless youre doing a 26 on the reg
you dont need to stack vers
hollow skiff
urghhh... I chnage all my gear around last night... Time to move it back 😂
still pagoda
I still new to prot, but when i look at the top log i see them stacking Vers/haste...
Is this just a top log thing then, and i should stay crit/haste?
@hollow skiff
Difference between lower/mid/high and the highest keys is immense
so just don't look at what top tier tanks are running for +25's and so on
hollow skiff
Ok, well I'm still working on all 15 in time as I've only been tanking 3 weeks.
At 15, should i be looking to use Lucid as Major? Currently running Vison.
marble cipher
Visions major
hollow skiff
BTW, just worth saying; This is a really helpful discord.. So big thanks to all the people who respond and put information in here!!
marble cipher
talks on lucid major are in the pins (tldr, don't use it unless you're pushing really high and know exactly how to use it)
amber siren
yeah discussion about lucid in the pins but tl;dr is that you're using it if you're planning big pulls around 2 minute cds like a fire mage combust for a 40 second avatar combo
not really something you need for a 15
hollow skiff
Ok understood.
Last question; Dratnos mentioned Prot using CnS for Major for this week Affix. I guess i ignore this too, until Im doing bigger keys.
wooden hinge
it’s kinda useful in lower keys too
amber siren
I don't think you'll get a definite answer on that, vision will be a larger DPS increase but CnS major will give you better control over necrotic this week
wooden hinge
but stuff died fast enough it shouldn’t matter
amber siren
Keep in mind that anything that slows 40% or higher will break the TC root
marble cipher
Visions will still be your best bet for that keylevel, that being said, I used it last night in a 16 to see how it works, and it wasn't bad tbf, kinda liked CnS on necro
wooden hinge
i think the practice you get with cns major is worth
also cns actually just worth using on tol dagor non sanguine tbh
prisma crane
just use sphere minor
ionic fern
I don't think i've ever used CnS on necrotic weeks. 👀
amber siren
sphere minor also a good option
ionic fern
Ask away @sick sentinel
marble cipher
CnS major was also funny when thing from beyond spawned, it was angrily glaring at me but couldn't ever reach me 🤣
(obviously Thing is not an issue even if it reaches you, just funny to see it standing there, rooted, not able to reach you)
sick sentinel
have TD3 on Boots and Expedient II on wrists
prisma crane
this like a humble brag or something?
marble cipher
looks like it haha (it probably isn't, but that gear is .... good)
prisma crane
unless ur like a dps main or something, idk
ionic fern
Not sure what traits are you using.
Why are you using Null/Aegis minors?
sick sentinel
just seen the guide, i dont know much
ionic fern
m+ PoV - you don't need null in most scenarios. Ideally replace it with CnS.
sick sentinel
like buy TD2 on weapon, will improve the damage?
ionic fern
TD will improve your damage by a lot..
ionic fern
But that's the Wrathion wpn, ain't it? Meaning you can't corrupt it ?
prisma crane
cleansing after patch allows for corruption
ionic fern
Oh, they changed it. Haven't gotten to news yet. 👀
prisma crane
yea, thankfully
now they just need to fix teh items that were previously cleansed and all is good
ionic fern
But yes, getting TD will up your damage a lot.
sick sentinel
and belt is 6% crit
prisma crane
that said
if you have 18% increased crit and still at only 26% then you prob dont have enough stacked to justify it
at least you have butcher block to kinda help
sick sentinel
i just see many people stack versatility, any guess about it?
amber siren
ionic fern
.
wooden hinge
my td3 did 800k on anything carapace this week 😃
prisma crane
they stack vers for very high keys to help mitigate damage that cannot be blocked
still pagoda
i just see many people stack versatility, any guess about it?
@sick sentinel
Verse stacking, Lucid major and other gimmicks are really used only in the highest keys
at that one point, when you can't survive while playing perfectly
left hatch
more than just mitigating unblockable damage
its to survive 1-shots WITH perfect play
still pagoda
^
prisma crane
name a one shot that's also blockable
ionic fern
First things first.
As a tank your primary goal when it comes to stats is ilvl first (on primary stat pieces), regardless of the stats.
Versatility Corruption/Gems/Enchants stacking is used by some people who are pushing world first keys and can't afford to rely on RNG of parry.
Versatility damage reduction/damage increase is always there and at high end you want consistency.
Is it needed for them? Probably not.
Is it needed for you? Definitely not.
prisma crane
my statement included that scenario lol
left hatch
but it also includes the scenario of "shrine has a lot of casts therefore i should stack verse on 15's there"
prisma crane
no
still pagoda
Shrine has a lot of Casts so you should get normal DPS who will interrupt them
prisma crane
unless 15 falls under "very high keys"
still pagoda
and refine your route
sick sentinel
yes i main dps, so i kinda pepega tank
still pagoda
honestly
prisma crane
then vers would help them because it's dummy proof
prisma crane
¯_(ツ)_/¯
left hatch
eh if they're dying to say no interrupts
still pagoda
¯_(ツ)_/¯
still pagoda
got my warrior's rio to show up on monk
sick sentinel
so in conclusion have TD3 and TD2 and Expedient ?
still pagoda
prisma crane
vers does affect two areas for bad players, unblockable dmg (they dont block) and increases IP (it's all they do)
ionic fern
Yes @sick sentinel
still pagoda
getting invites to keys right away
prisma crane
not advocating vers stacking for low keys lol**
left hatch
yeh but at that point every stat helps bad players
still pagoda
bad players
left hatch
crit is idiot proof for all the AA's they don't bother to have SB up for
prisma crane
crit doesnt if mobs are behind you
left hatch
mm true
still pagoda
they will forever be bad players if they won't think of improving and just "NERFTANK STACKS VERSE AND USES CNS I SHOULD DO THE SAME IN EVERY KEY"
prisma crane
vers is just there
still pagoda
prisma crane
also why it's so boring of a stat, despite being so strong
still pagoda
you know what is really boring?
haste on BrM
the only thing it does is increasing your energy gen
hoary belfry
How do you guys deal with the 3rd boss of motherlode?
left hatch
Rixxa, liberous use of SR, if you're really struggling don't waste rage on SB
prisma crane
@hoary belfry start by never wasting rage on SB unless you're not dying
ionic fern
@hoary belfry
Use SR for every other debuff.
Use rage on IP as she only deals magic damage.
prisma crane
because nothing is blockable on that fight
left hatch
coordinate with your healer to alternate SR and dispels
prisma crane
most isnt blockable on last boss either
still pagoda
^
left hatch
^ only thing blockable on last boss is when he plops down
left hatch
only if its on your right?
still pagoda
and even then standing under his plop is inting
left hatch
oh other way around
prisma crane
yea its so weird
left hatch
no it blocks the shockwave as well from it
sick sentinel
thanks people, you are awesome, now some forced grind of echoes 👍
hoary belfry
ah alright I assumed that those bosses autoattacks would still harm me
left hatch
they do
hoary belfry
so i'll spend all my rage on IP
left hatch
they're just unblockable
marble cipher
@still pagoda off topic from warrior talk, but haste in general just isn't all that valuable on BrM, gets a bit better the higher you go in keys, but still
hoary belfry
and reflect every second dot
left hatch
not advocating this per say
but some ppl in very high tyranical will run an... i believe IT2
to SR every dot
hoary belfry
but isnt this super rng?
prisma crane
that's all RNG though
left hatch
or if you group is hearthing out to swap to ST talents you can swap to AuG major
with null minor
to help
still pagoda
@still pagoda off topic from warrior talk, but haste in general just isn't all that valuable on BrM, gets a bit better the higher you go in keys, but still
@marble cipher
Exactly
left hatch
and indomitable
still pagoda
ik
left hatch
but esp with the indomitable pick its not worth using from the start
only. if your group is hearthing to swap
wait... i th ink im wrong
ionic fern
You won't need IT on super high keys.
If you're doing super high keys chances are you have a optimized group + voice communication so you:
1)SR->Dispell DPS
2)DPS CD->Dispell Tank
3)SR->Dispell DPS
4)etcetcetc
left hatch
indomitable is the HP buff
im thinking w/e the talent is that makes your IP slightly better
the less hp you have
ionic fern
Never Surrender.
left hatch
^
ionic fern
Anyways, if the healer/DPS are solid you won't have issues juggling the debuff.
hoary belfry
TD2 worth it or wait for TD3?
hallow phoenix
Is TD2 up on the vendor? What are you referring to
hoary belfry
I read somewhere that TD2 will be up in the next rotation and since TD3 will cost around 13-15k I'm not sure if I should get TD2 now or save and get TD3 at some point.
I'm currently doing keys around 17-18 but I wanna get into 20s range if that matters
left hatch
noone knows what the rotation is, will have to wait till tomorrow
and doesn't really make a difference between TD1,2,3
you just wanna get some combination to make TD5
TD6 in 2 weeks
amber siren
all the corruptions except IT are scaled linearly with gain and corruption cost
rocky garnet
Hey guys, is expedient what we wanna buy from the vendor?
tight surge
Is going full haste to "focus" on gearing for arms in raids a decent choice?
sweet summit
we're going full haste anyway
tight surge
Just saw some of those big dungeon bois going versatility with versatile
But great! Thanks :D
tight surge
Nah I don't do keys that low
icy vector
so, i got that one weapon from WM and the shield from TD, are they decent or is there anything else i should be looking for?
amber siren
both weapon and shield will be whatever ilvl is highest you have
strong forum
assuming you only have access to 465 shields, the ML shield is the best one
and weapon from workshop
cloud bolt
Hi guys do u have any good guides for newbie prot warriors who want to tank mythic+? I'm playing solo so I'm forced to play pugs.
brittle owl
still pagoda
for pushing keys while being a pickup group guy, i can recommend pushing your own key
just a small advice
on top of all the stuff in #268491842637660160
got kicked out of the party for "not clicking on the sumstone" while this guy stood in port of Atal'Dazor and could easily port to Mechagon via NPC
dapper stump
Hey all! is truth good for prot warriors?
also currently i have rnk 3 TD rnk 2 expedient and 2 rank 2's of vers is that a good balance?
strong forum
its pretty good ye
still pagoda
it's good
but if you don't have TD5, it is not worth to buy it
save echoes for TD3
dapper stump
i have rank 5 td
dapper stump
i have higher then that just trying to balance my stats and healing for higher then 15s
strong forum
go TD5
strong forum
anything else is inting
still pagoda
^
dapper stump
Inting?
still pagoda
anything else is totally useless, including stacking of verse until you really get to +25 and higher
strong forum
intentionally handicapping yourself
dapper stump
Okay thats fair enough
still pagoda
really
strong forum
my goal is to go expedient 3, IT1 and TD4 for this week
hoping TD3 is on vendor saturday
dapper stump
i could buy truth rnk cause i have the echos
strong forum
i would buy 1 IT1
defo
its getting more and more popular
and will land you some juicy additional SR's
dapper stump
Yeah that sounds lovely i like SR
still pagoda
well
strong forum
also synergizes very well with AM
still pagoda
IT1 is really good due to our lack of magic DR
strong forum
its just good for us period, not just for magic DR
and its a perfect filler to stay below 40 if you desire to do so
dapper stump
No point running higher then 40 as prot for higher keys?
strong forum
im runing 58
strong forum
healers job, and you can spell reflect it
still pagoda
TFB is easily SR'able
but mostly everything else is healer's job
our self-sustain is nonexistent
and trying to make it exist is even more inting than stacking verse in keys lower than +25
novel storm
Is it a good idea to run CoS major this week or stick to vision?
still pagoda
no
stick to vision
CnS major is garbage due to amount of roots that many other people already have
and you can kite easily without it
novel storm
alright thanks
old cypress
I heard somewhere that IT2 is worse than IT1
strong forum
it is
hallow phoenix
Only place I enjoy cns major is tol dagor and that's solely because of how annoying it is when mobs run away
dapper stump
Is it because its pointless having more then 30% ?
amber siren
IT doesn't have a linear scaling for some reason
old cypress
okay
hallow phoenix
What is IT3
amber siren
doesnt have a r3
hallow phoenix
Sad
cosmic canyon
2x IT r1. How does it scale? Double uptime or 1.3x1.3 cd reduction?
strong forum
60%
hallow phoenix
Additive
cosmic canyon
Ok
hallow phoenix
Noms got it
sharp night
you won't be able to buy the current corruptions after the assault swaps
strong forum
^
sharp night
they'll be replaced by new ones
sharp night
ah
hallow phoenix
Time travel
brittle owl
eu brain so big we can legit see into the future
peak lily
What azerite traits is "bis" for m+ from the vendor? Thinking about the last 2 traits(3xbastion+1clap is a given)
brittle owl
clockwork heart/meticulous scheming
peak lily
Got 2x MS but wondering if its worth it going for clockwork or not
peak lily
I got those 3 listed there, but wondering if its worth going for clockwork
strong forum
yes its worth for m+
im running abyssal + 2x mecha
the downtime between packs plays into favour of cwh
and itll proc as soon as you enter combat, its not rng
peak lily
rnged myself to the chest, thanks
main vault
Just heard Sco grabbed Lightee from Limit?
brittle owl
prob sco stepping down
brittle owl
thaat could also make sense
main vault
JW already did that and still tanked
still pagoda
sco is benched, justwait doing WA/Bigwigs
naowh+lightee tanking prog
@sweet summit
Sco getting benched again?
main vault
And is probably the best tank in the world
still pagoda
sweet summit
yeah, but that eats away time they could be pulling bosses
main vault
Just hard to imagine benching the worlds best tank
main vault
That messes Limit up for sure
still pagoda
like
they barely give out any information regarding benches and stuff UNLESS it's Sco
main vault
The only thing Method could have given him that Limit cant is money
sweet summit
ye idk, complexity can also do that ye?
still pagoda
ye
main vault
Complexity can’t match Method money
still pagoda
sweet summit
NA omegalul
sweet summit
sweet summit
thats degenerate as fuck
jade socket
🥜
main vault
Kinda ruins the WF race for me
sweet summit
yeah
main vault
Methods strat when they lose anything is “let’s buy the winners”
sweet summit
"can you buy world first"
main vault
Literally
still pagoda
brittle owl
it's not like it wasn't inevitable
main vault
Why cause he was on their MDI team? Doesn’t make it inevitable
Lightee was pretty close to Max and was only on their MDI team cause Limit didn’t have one at the time
jdotb has been on that team since day 1 and isn’t in method
north ridge
Seeing a lot of tanks run full vers amp now. Is it worth it for lower keys (15-18)? Or just stick to haste?
brittle owl
why because WF race is popular enough to be monetized
heavily
i mean inevitable that things like these would happen
didnt mean lightee specifically
dark marsh
hey guys quick question with the new corruption vendor which corruptions should i buy? (got 2times 12% haste cause i want to test out arms too)
rose orbit
Should I remove a crit corruption to go from 35 -> 15 cor.? Don't feel like dealing with the eye of cor. mechanic while I'm tanking
ionic fern
TD.
Expedient
IT. @dark marsh
rose orbit
Esp. in a raid setting
ionic fern
@rose orbit in general you shouldn't worry about it..it's like 2 steps and you're out of the circle.
Or just Spell Reflect it.
dark marsh
IT.?
strange tide
Ineffable Truth I believe
amber siren
going under 25 means you wont get any heart of darkness benefit
if youre running that
still pagoda
^
amber siren
and really for the most part, running under 40 should be more than safe
smoky wave
Reminds me, can use heart of darkness now I have expedient to boost it a bit. Is IT1 for sale this week too? Didn't realise it was any good
strong forum
Yes
polar kite
What essences should I go for next? I'm only tanking m+ :)
sharp rover
Why does prot run versatility corruptions instead of haste corruptions for survivability?
still pagoda
no one does that until +25's
strong forum
because its magical dmg and dots that will wreck you in those, not blockable dmg
still pagoda
^
sharp rover
still pagoda
mostly one shots
polar kite
Okay, thanks :D
still pagoda
like rezan bleed in very high keys
but otherwise... If you don't run 24-25+ and higher, you may not even care for it
just stack TD
sharp rover
If you're but running vers you just run full TD and searing flames, right?
gray bane
hmm, IT is a pretty good corruption, right?
strong forum
yes
still pagoda
TD5 is optimal
gray bane
just thinking if I should buy one before it disappears
still pagoda
Wrathion corrupt is meh
gray bane
yeah but can't buy that yet 😄
strong forum
searing flames isnt desirable
gray bane
yeah I cleansed wrathion corrupt
still pagoda
IT is really good
gray bane
alright, gonna pick one of those up
still pagoda
ye
gray bane
I just have one 6% TD atm - that's TD1, right?
still pagoda
cleanse it
it is really not worth it
I just have one 6% TD atm - that's TD1, right?
@gray bane
Ye
ionic fern
Yes, that's TD1.
still pagoda
that's TD1
gray bane
alrighty, hopefully TD3 pops up soon 🙂
still don't understand why they decided to rotate the vendor's offering...
still pagoda
well
i think it's fine that it rotates
just so that there're no insta-buys every week
ionic fern
PvP sounds like a total wreck with this change.
still pagoda
since my next guaranteed buy is TD3
and no one knows when Gushing wounds will come up and how much they will cost
leaden grotto
is GW still going to be an insta-buy for pvp with the 35% nerf? i would expect in pve for TD+exepdient/severe to be better than getting GW now (for raid dps)
brittle owl
elite set is fairly easy to get
nah
GW is still prob gonna be bis for ST
but you don't have ST in raid except 1 boss so TD still king
leaden grotto
i got R10 or 11 running IS instead.
brittle owl
gl trying to beat/match that
obv IS can have freak occurences
but the variance of those are waaaaaaaaaay more wild than just proccing TD
i suppose if add tank is pepega
better hedge your bets on ST corruptions
leaden grotto
IS will reliably get to 10 stacks on shad and maut but yes TD does proc more often and i prefer using it. something way more satisfying about seeing giant purple beams plough through things
leaden grotto
thunderclap as been autopiloting our dps for a long time anyways.
sharp rover
Will gw continue to be top tier after the nerf?
leaden grotto
yes for ST if you want something more reliable than IS
brittle owl
at least you press TC 🤷♂️
there's an action you make
the same cannot be said about corruption
leaden grotto
yeah. i think we as prot warrs are in a better spot than most tanks for our damage. i did ~64k dps on xanesh last night and my first corruption damage is 4th. behind melee, SS and TC. it would be very different if i actually had good TD pieces but it is nice to see my spells still doing meaningful damage
especially when i compare to the bdk in my group and see TD being like 60% of their damage
ionic fern
I did a +12 on my Enhance recently and had a BDK tank spamming damage meters and complaining that the DPS is low..while his damage was like 80% TD.
😂
Good times.
brittle owl
prot warrior and prot paladin are in a "good" spot in terms of kit dps vs corruption dps yes
biggest issue is
a class with an extremely simpler rotation can do just as good
re: mwahi's bdk
just doesn't feel good when you have an involved rotation mean absolutely jack shit cause billy got lucky and melted packs with TD before you finished your cd globals
mortal brook
i only use amps. no procs. that way my purist rotation appears like more than it would be than with bougie trash like td
still pagoda
vestal garnet
Hello, what do you guys think about full Versatile corruption + Surging vitality instead of TD's in m+? I'm talking about 21/22s+
mild ore
uhm prot war doesnt have a simple rotation?
ionic fern
This has to be like the 10th Versatility question today. Has something happened?
strong forum
You don't need versatile until 25+
Period.
Dot
.
And even then you don't need it
You still run TD
Other tanks do, we dont
mortal brook
its fine to stick whatever, including a vers%, in your budget between TDs, but you dont go out of your way for it in almost all cases
still pagoda
This has to be like the 10th Versatility question today. Has something happened?
@ionic fern
Vendor happened
inland bolt
full vers% is a legit build though
reaching 40% vers will literally change the way you play certain pulls
vestal garnet
tds are rng bullshit
ionic fern
TD's are 25k+ DPS.
inland bolt
being able to stand still and pump zul is a possibility with the vers% build, or just pull fat sapper packs in ML without randomly dieing as well
ionic fern
If you're randomly dieing you're doing something wrong.
sweet summit
zul is something else really
brittle owl
zul is an outlier
main vault
Vers build is not legit
The only reason top pushers are using Vers is because they have nothing left to keep them alive
inland bolt
so it is legit?
sweet summit
high fortified kings rest is the only place id "build defensively"
ionic fern
I mean, run w/e you want in your keys but don't come here saying Vers>anything else for literally everyone.
main vault
They have every piece of gear they could possibly want, they play almost perfect, their comp and routes are almost perfected
And it’s literally Vers or die
With no other options
strong forum
^
main vault
Of course they aren’t
main vault
Vers is REALLY only a Bear and Monk thing
sweet summit
every tank thats not a pwarr
brittle owl
diff is
main vault
Or DH
brittle owl
when you put it
stiff oracle
brittle owl
dh doesn't really need it either
strong forum
Some tanks have to do it earlier than others
ionic fern
Just take it as a enabler, easy as that. 🤷
brittle owl
hazard to say DH is the tank that will need it last
but very few people push seriously as dh
main vault
DH would be unplayable
brittle owl
so who knows
main vault
They are hard carried by TD for threat/DPS
brittle owl
raden carries the threat doe
but yeah
dps is lopsided on TD
which is not ideal for pushing
inland bolt
nah even the bear tank ran full TD's for alot of keys
brittle owl
bears are legit
inland bolt
its just that no one had the option to run full vers amp set as well
brittle owl
good kit dps, solid defense, yuge TD's
inland bolt
but saying vers% isnt a 'legit' build when no one has had the option to try it is kinda weird
brittle owl
outside of the niche it clearly fills, it's unnecesary and suboptimal
main vault
Andy has been running full Vers over a month now?
sweet summit
andy has to
brittle owl
almost since the start of the season
main vault
That’s not the point
It doesn’t matter who doesn’t and does have to
He said no one has had the opportunity to try it
Which is just bullshit
They have enough gear to where they could try
strong forum
especially 12/12 peeps
strong forum
higher levels actually
ionic fern
Wasn't @sick sentinel big on Vers at some point?
strong forum
kyothi could push past 100% vers
brittle owl
he just tested it
strong forum
when andy caps at 90%
ionic fern
🤷
brittle owl
but afaik wasnt sold on it
strong forum
its still dog
TD kills the packs faster, ergo take less dmg
a significant margin actually
brittle owl
i almost 2 clap packs now on tyr in sub 20 keys
you can't even begin to quantify the survival gain from that
strong forum
its not wrong to squeeze in 1 2 or 3 vers%, but dropping TD entirely is not optimal, thats all thats being said here
not arguing that vers isnt great
my dream setup for now would be IT1 expedient 3 and TD4, but thats for my baby keys
marble cipher
I thought about that setup, but then I thought about TD6 🤷
lethal plaza
I've never tried IT. What results do you see with it?
strong forum
in sub 20s sure
marble cipher
My keys are even more baby, no worries, 16-18
strong forum
ye
IT is getting more and more popular, it double dips with AM and help you get more SRs cheese
inland bolt
can't you also argue IT is good defensively since it drops CD on SB, demo and avatar?
trail dome
I'm a holy paladin main that's just picking up prot warr as an alt. IT is cool, but it is very inconsistent.
strong forum
yes
marble cipher
I got IT pieces, and Expedient as well, just don't really need to fit in the IT piece for now
inland bolt
x2 IT sounds pretty legit to finish off a set
strong forum
IT is very good defensively
i once ran IT3, 80% reduction
you can chain about 10 SBs durin hero
trail dome
I have like 310% IT on main. Isn't inconsistency kind of an issue for you folks?
strong forum
without havin to use Last Stand
lethal plaza
Is TD3 going to be around 15k echoes?
marble cipher
Probably
distant crystal
