protection

[left hatch]

also confused about your statement 'saving rage' to spend on IP

its already the rage dump when SB isn't ready to cast

so theres nothing to really svae

save*

[robust pulsar]

When I see I have SB going off and its on CD; I tend to save a bit rage to spend on big IP

[left hatch]

IP doesn't scale the more you dump into it

its a flat cost

its not like vengeance's cleave

[still pagoda]

^ it scaled with rage back in Legion... Not anymore

flat 40 and that's all

[left hatch]

so in non-trivial content every bit of rage that isn't going to keeping SB up should be dumped into IP

preferably sooner rather than later to keep AM pumping and not risk rage capping

[robust pulsar]

Yeah, I had in my mind it scaled like in legion, I don't play at higher level since then. but I try to keep 80 rage to spend on two if needed

[left hatch]

thats... not good

you're risking rage capping

and casting 2 back to back instantly is wasteful because IP's size has a hard cap of i think 1.3x the cast

[still pagoda]

Yeah, I had in my mind it scaled like in legion, I don't play at higher level since then. but I try to keep 80 rage to spend on two if needed

It is not as powerful as back then too

[robust pulsar]

I don't cast it back to back tho

[still pagoda]

still great shit tho

[left hatch]

so yo'ure wasting the majority of an IP

[still pagoda]

mitigates a lot

[left hatch]

if yo'ure not casting back to back

why pool rage for it then...

[robust pulsar]

I cast one and look at the WA to see when I need it

[still pagoda]

i just constantly dump rage into IP and revenge

and keep a bit for SB

[left hatch]

yah thats how the spec works rn

IP isn't active mitigation to sit on

its a damage smoother

[still pagoda]

^

though i did the same in Legion

constant dumps and 15-20 seconds BC cooldown

[chilly brook]

Technically IP stacks just at a really bad low cap

[stark sage]

consistent IP usage will also keep your healer's from suffering to damage shock

[chilly brook]

1.5 iirc

[still pagoda]

resulting in even more rage and damage smoothing through IP

[robust pulsar]

I see....

[chilly brook]

Just dump rage

[still pagoda]

especially with 2PT21

[left hatch]

yah i think the most costly part of sitting on rage is wasting Anger Management

[chilly brook]

As much as possible

[left hatch]

and making your CD's longer than they should be with proper play

[mild river]

Noob question: does safeguard protect against like magical damage? Like the spit from the first boss in kings rest? Debuffs in general?

[stark sage]

how squishy a tank feels is often tied to how spikey the damage intake is and how well a healer can react to it
if your IP casts are trying to react to damage, and your healers are trying to react to the same damage, you will feel hella squishy

[still pagoda]

just don't take safeguard

[left hatch]

safegaurd is very niche use, the 2 things offhand its useful at is boss 1 and 2 in freehold

[chilly brook]

What Keladan said

[left hatch]

at very very high tyranical

[chilly brook]

We're 100% proactive

[still pagoda]

^

[left hatch]

and even then you need like... instantaneous reaction time

[still pagoda]

smooth that damage out and dump as much rage as possible

we're not DK's

[chilly brook]

If you're reacting you're going to die

[still pagoda]

monks and warriors are the only tanks that can allow themselves to chill and play proactively 24/7

[robust pulsar]

Yeah, I mained DK and Monk on legion, so i'm more used to them. Decied to try on warrior and now learning

[chilly brook]

Well monk is pretty passive tbh

[left hatch]

warrior is all about preperation/predicting the damage

[still pagoda]

Well monk is pretty passive tbh

Yea

[left hatch]

knowing what pull yo'ull need SW on

[robust pulsar]

Monk is brain dead, yes

[mild river]

I'm asking that because we wiped in a KR and the healer said it was my fault because I wasn't safeguarding people against the spit damage...

[left hatch]

what pulls are trivial

[still pagoda]

i'm definitely getting one for Shadowlands tho]

[left hatch]

What key level?

[sweet summit]

so instead of pooling RP as a dk, you pre use defensives like SW

[mild river]

18

[left hatch]

just a shit healer

[chilly brook]

Monk from what we are seeing with Celestial Brew will most likely become more proactive though

[mild river]

Lol

[left hatch]

or people arn't using defensives

[still pagoda]

Monk from what we are seeing with Celestial Brew will most likely become more proactive though

Yea, definitely

[mild river]

Ok thanks

[left hatch]

100% not on you

[still pagoda]

and more so of a cooldown-based

unlike protwar

[formal meadow]

whats the best pieces we can buy with titan residium?

[left hatch]

Abyssal Malevolence Helm, Krakenshell shoulders and either Mechagon chest that has BoM+Clockwerk heart or Ashvane Warden Chest

dealers choice on the chest slot

[robust pulsar]

Also, another questiion, how do warrior sometimes get soo much healing done? Is it all IP?

[still pagoda]

IP

50% usually

and even more

[left hatch]

if you're talking about high high keys

Lucid major

[sweet summit]

healing is useless to talk about

[still pagoda]

absorbs count as healing

[left hatch]

cause leech + you IP basically every GCD

[still pagoda]

talking of healing is really useless though

[left hatch]

but yah just DO NOT look at HPS meters

[still pagoda]

^

[left hatch]

it matters literally nothing for prot warrior

[robust pulsar]

🙂

[left hatch]

and trying to use it as a metric to gauge how tanky you are incentivizes bad play that hurts your tankiness

[still pagoda]

or look but at your healer's as he tries to heal out DPS idiots with 10 stacks of bursting

[left hatch]

i just don't at all

have 2 details windows

dps on current

and dps on overall

[still pagoda]

i reduced details to only one window now

[left hatch]

or damage done* rather

[still pagoda]

current dps only

and just swap through bookmarks on shift-rightclick

prot AoE DPS is kinda insane IMO

[left hatch]

you can kinda say that of any tank if you stack TD at this point

[still pagoda]

i only have 2 TOM, 1 DC and no TD's and already do 20-70k DPS on packs

[left hatch]

its really leveled the playing field

[daring marlin]

Minus TD I like doing similar damage now as I did in BoD in AoE

Feelsgoodman

[limpid pawn]

prot is proactive tanking, a lot of other tanks are reactive

*MOSTLY proactive vs *MOSTLY reactive

[left hatch]

eh id say prot is entirely proactive

besides using health pots/stones etc

we don't really have an effective oh fuck button like LoH

SW isn't gonna save you if you're at 15% and having your ass pounded

[limpid pawn]

avatar, and last stand heal/shield you a bit to save you from fuckups reactive

*reactively

but usually shouldn't be used like that

[left hatch]

exactly

the tools are far less effective

if used reactively

and tbh like.... will either of those save you

if you're at 10%

the same way like VB would

and in the case of ava or last stand, saving them as a reactive cd

actively hurts your tankiness

[still pagoda]

saving offensive cooldown as a reactive

WUT?!

PUSH THE BUTTON NUKE THE PAST

STRIKE HARD
STRIKE FAST

[sick sentinel]

That feeling of panic when you can feel yourself getting a bit pounded and then avatar comes up and the clouds clear

[ionic fern]

I can't wait to die in SHadowlands during Avatar cause BoM is gone.

[still pagoda]

i just SMASH it on cd since VoP and AM reduce its cooldown to extremely low points

[ionic fern]

[still pagoda]

^

[daring marlin]

Prot in Shadowlands 🤣

[ionic fern]

👀

[still pagoda]

i think we'll need to see how numbers will go

[sick sentinel]

Prot won’t be bad

[still pagoda]

Numbers. They rule it all

[left hatch]

to yet again reiterate what talented tank mains who have ACTUALLY tried the spec in alpha and arn't just freaking out over reading hte changes

prot is still very good as of right now.

the biggest nerf is to your output

full stop

[still pagoda]

^

seriously

[tame garden]

Dead spec pepelaugh

[ionic fern]

@tame garden

[tame garden]

🏃

[sick sentinel]

Get out of here bear

Shoo

[still pagoda]

even i, a fucking PvE crab who last time tanked mythic and higher keys in fucking Legion, can't see anything being dead in prot warrior

numbers will decide what will be the best

[limpid pawn]

most prot warriors who play the class close to full potential are not worried even in the slightest

[sick sentinel]

We just won’t do INSANE damage like we have all expansion, and that’s ok

[daring marlin]

Could you imagine responding to what I said like Morrison?

O M E G A

[limpid pawn]

even during early bfa before all the buffs, good prot wars still made it work no prob

[left hatch]

can you imagine dealing with multiple OMG MY CLASS memes a day with over half of them being serious worried questions or statements

your meme is stale

[daring marlin]

rofl

I get it

[sick sentinel]

An old meme, and it does not check out

[still pagoda]

even in overnerfed state during NH, good prot wars did a really good job

[sick sentinel]

Prot is 🐐

Do not try to change my mind

[daring marlin]

Insert muh viable memes from 8.0.

[limpid pawn]

exactly. people who have mastered the timing and tracking of cooldowns did well

the noobs who weren't even keeping active mitigation up when they should have it suffered

[still pagoda]

^

[daring marlin]

cringe

[limpid pawn]

extremely punishing spec for bad play

[daring marlin]

Because pressing SB takes a lot of thought

[left hatch]

or people who are more freaking out because prot might not be M+ kings for a 4th consecutive season

[still pagoda]

just as any tank except for DK

and DH

[limpid pawn]

no bro

[left hatch]

and not being FOTM is the end of hte world for them

[ionic fern]

I should make a meme discord account so i could say stupid stuff without people taking me seriously.

😦

[still pagoda]

or people who are more freaking out because prot might not be M+ kings for a 4th consecutive season

Amount of new utility may make them such again

[left hatch]

yeh hence the might

[still pagoda]

spear, mass taunt, group-wide attack speed

a lot of good stuff tbh

[left hatch]

but all people see is meta build being targeted nerfed

[tame garden]

@ionic fern the trick is trolling in other class discords

[left hatch]

and chaos ensues

[tame garden]

🕵️

[still pagoda]

target nerfing of meta builds is totally normal

[sick sentinel]

Yes I enter the bear discord from time to time

[still pagoda]

i like prot no matter the state of the spec

Yes I enter the bear discord from time to time

And do they moan over not being able to return to their former glory of Legion?

[sick sentinel]

Wouldn’t know

I don’t speak bear

[limpid pawn]

bear tanks, they are bottom of the barrel now?

[sick sentinel]

That is rude

[tame garden]

Woah

We arent dk

[sick sentinel]

They are at least the gunk right above the bottom

[tame garden]

Calm down

[daring marlin]

This is the only thing that bothers me about prot in shadowlands

[still pagoda]

This is the only thing that bothers me about prot in shadowlands

This is fine

they decided to nerf DPS

[sick sentinel]

They’re trying to introduce some variability to our builds

[daring marlin]

We can't make the talents around those currently good so let's put them all together!

[left hatch]

yeh it kills the Tclap build

[still pagoda]

since it is ridiculous

[sick sentinel]

Which i agree with

[left hatch]

which sucks but

doesn't kill prot

[daring marlin]

I never said it killed prot.

Relax, my dude.

[left hatch]

might kill how fun prot is but

[still pagoda]

prot's active mitigation will still be around

so no worrie

[left hatch]

totally diff story

[still pagoda]

worries*

just damage returning to tank-normal

[sick sentinel]

That’s what you think

I still plan to slam

[still pagoda]

same

i plan on warrior and monk for SL

at the start

[sick sentinel]

Monk 🤢

[still pagoda]

mainly for raid + they rework its brews in SL

[daring marlin]

It's just a bit annoying because in contrast to that, Prot Paladin's tree is badass.

[left hatch]

or the changes to Vengenace

or monk

seems like all the other tanks get fun new toys

[sick sentinel]

Yeah if I played anything besides prot it will be vengeance

[left hatch]

and we lose our fun

im holding out for cool legendaries or some memey soulbind combos

[still pagoda]

^

ye

and for spear and mass taunt

for the sake of M+

[sweet summit]

angermanagement AND RAVAGER????

[still pagoda]

and we lose our fun

We get mass taunt back tho

easy emergency control of packs on skittish

[left hatch]

but whats more fun. aoe taunt or baseline fel dev and demonic

[still pagoda]

even if it is on a long cd

[tame garden]

[sick sentinel]

Our emergency control is thunderclap

[still pagoda]

B A S E L I N E V O P

[daring marlin]

@modern brook member the viable memes?

You filthy rogue

scum

[chilly brook]

@left hatch to be fair vengeance isn't really getting any new toys just getting felt devastation baseline and losing literally everything that actually makes it a good tank currently

[still pagoda]

^

[chilly brook]

Like the mitigation gaps are gonna be huge

[left hatch]

demonic is kinda a banaid

[still pagoda]

every tank looses something in SL

prots loose DPS

[limpid pawn]

yeah legendaries can fix it

[sick sentinel]

Yeah but you’re a dh

[chilly brook]

Yea it's a bandaid that's way worse than VoP/gluttony

[sick sentinel]

Like

Just dodge

[still pagoda]

monks get ISB baked into passive and their brews reworked(which will alter playstyle)

[left hatch]

and tbf trying to compare any tank in alpha

to how shit works now

[chilly brook]

Tbh gluttony and feed the demon need to be baseline

[left hatch]

everything will fall apart

[chilly brook]

And feed the demon needs to be buffed

I'm just talking from a design standpoint

Not necessarily tuning on alpha

[left hatch]

right

and i mean its not a good answer cause its still relying on borrowed power

but hopefully legos and soulbinds fill those gaps

just sucks that they're still trying to make the core function of a class be so dependent on temporary things

rather than have something that just works baseline and adding on top of that w/ borrowed power

[daring marlin]

what like tier sets????

the heck are those

get out!

[left hatch]

exact

[still pagoda]

just sucks that they're still trying to make the core function of a class be so dependent on temporary things

More like they don't think of any other method to make gear and character progression

which is sad

[chilly brook]

Honestly DH has a component that already exists that could make them not have to rely on borrowed power

Feed The Demon

[still pagoda]

though returning everything to mostly baseline and then progressing everything through typical pre-Legion style gear progression would be a really good change

[chilly brook]

Just make it baseline and buff it

[left hatch]

i think thats what the plan is for SL

no TF or WF

so gear progression is more linear

[chilly brook]

In the words of ion

[still pagoda]

lessen amount of loot from bosses and M+, return master loot, rework classes so that they feel good right in the baseline or just return to pre-WoD classes

and it will be even better

[chilly brook]

Gear is gear

No systems

[still pagoda]

yea, he spoke of it in his interview with Sloot

no WF/TF is great IMO

[left hatch]

I disagree with returning to WoD classes

outside of BDK

[still pagoda]

pre-WoD*

[left hatch]

i like the changes

ah gotcha

[still pagoda]

basically MoP and before

Back to the basics

[chilly brook]

WoD monk was great

But I didn't play MoP so I have no reference to pre wod monk

[daring marlin]

I miss seeing loot on the boss.

Every week of gold gets old.

[strong forum]

IT IS DONE

MECHA CHEST AND MECHA SHOULDERS GET

[still pagoda]

what is the addon that shows azerite traits like this tho?

i don't remember

[clever current]

Hey guys just started gearing my Prot and wondering what essences I should invest my echoes in first. M+ mainly the focus

Also Morrison I agree with returning to WoD BDK I miss BoS

[strong forum]

its azerite tooltips

Boulecul you want
VoP first, then Cns, then lucid

[worthy linden]

i have 475 rezan's, 460 big red button and 460 dragonscale, best 2?

[wicked orchid]

What weapon enchant do I want?

[strong forum]

force mult

rezan + scale @worthy linden

[clever current]

Ty Nome

[wicked orchid]

Thanks!

[strong forum]

big red button sucks

[worthy linden]

cheers

[sick sentinel]

is clockwork even that good compared to hod

[strong forum]

mecha chest is absolute bis chest, better than vex

[regal saddle]

Yes,

[strong forum]

1ppm of 1600 stats

so now i get 3200 stats every minute

exactly

[sick sentinel]

what about MS chest

[strong forum]

its better

than MS

or rather 0.1% better

[sick sentinel]

so barely

[strong forum]

yes

but absolute bis

[sick sentinel]

I'd rather have 1.1k haste than 1600 all

[strong forum]

sure

but 400 crit, haste, vers, mastery every exact minute you start combat/ are in combat

is pretty massive

especially in m+

[warm plinth]

Yeah that’s the important part is that it’s very consistent. It’s not RPPM. It’s every minute on the dot.

So you don’t need good RNG

[strong forum]

its there for basically every pull in m+

i love it since its a massive dps boost, sure haste procs are giga, but we already have vita / rezan / scale

https://i.imgur.com/hr3IHBA.png this is my stats vs 1 target and only clockwork up

[sick sentinel]

seems normal to me

[strong forum]

getting 12% crit ontop of 10% vers

its kinda sexy

thats with nothing

quite substantial id say

[analog oyster]

Anyone good with flipping boe's? 😛

[sick sentinel]

Any 2400ish io tanks in here alliance US?

https://prnt.sc/s48q46

my stats with nothing

[strong forum]

ye so

[sick sentinel]

I have a lot of %s corruptions

lol

[strong forum]

im running TD5

cba % corruptions

[sick sentinel]

I can't be assed with it either

[strong forum]

tbf

i dont have any good %stat on good pieces

only bracers

but i prefer running TD5 over TD3 + 12% haste

i do have a billion racing pulse though....

[regal saddle]

My warrior been unlucky with td, but lucky with % increase

[strong forum]

https://i.imgur.com/UBIFt6d.png

i zoom

[limpid pawn]

no td?

[strong forum]

i just said im running TD5

this is just to show off my obscene amount of Racing pulse i got from weekly chest

[limpid pawn]

oh ok

hold up mecha shoulders are better than skitra shoulders?

already have mecha chest

[strong forum]

either better or atleast equal

however i cba mythic raid

[limpid pawn]

but mecha chest better than vex chest for sure?

[strong forum]

yes

mecha chest is ultra bis, theres nothing better in the game

[limpid pawn]

it is great for sure

im kinda hard stuck 479 atm

[sick sentinel]

🤔

[strong forum]

[limpid pawn]

need carapace/nzoth mythic but my guild not there yet - need some more time

[sick sentinel]

mythic raiders

4head

[strong forum]

imagine raiding in the patch where its absolutely not necessary

[sick sentinel]

https://prnt.sc/s48uh3

without raiding

still have two 460 trinkets and a465 mainhand

😢

[limpid pawn]

raiding is fun no?

[sick sentinel]

no

lol

[strong forum]

not really

[limpid pawn]

nah you guys are right

[sick sentinel]

tanks literally do the same thing

every single time

[limpid pawn]

but w/e it's something to do

[sick sentinel]

I need to push harder next week

I'm losing my rank 50 spot

😢

work sucks

can't even push on good days

[strong forum]

im done with bfa

[limpid pawn]

yo you got some good twitch vids?

if you stream

[sick sentinel]

no

watch andybrew or nerf or something

oh ye I forgot

crossrealm is this week

[strong forum]

it was last week

unless youre US

[sick sentinel]

I'm us

🤔

[strong forum]

1 week behind

lmoa

i stream sometimes but im only 2.9k cuz i cba pushing, we only do like 2-3 keys a week, and i cant recommend it if youre easily offended

[spring zenith]

is this best in a major slot or minor slot?

[strong forum]

major

major unless you now better*

[spring zenith]

not many options

[sick sentinel]

vision is your best

and get rid of those essence points

yuck

[spring zenith]

Essence points? oh the weights

[strong forum]

azerite powerweights is a MASSIVE bait

[spring zenith]

yeah their fucked for prot

Its decent for fury

as far as I'm aware

[sick sentinel]

it's fucked for all

[spring zenith]

Really?

[sick sentinel]

because you use difference essenses for different things

[formal meadow]

is it better for tanks to have trinkets for damage or defense?

[strong forum]

dmg

[formal meadow]

wowhead has these

ahh i see

thankjs

[strong forum]

you want haste proc trinkets

like rezan/ scale / vita

[formal meadow]

I have humming black dragonscale at the moment

which trinket should I go for first? the other one is a 430 ilvl one

[strong forum]

vita

[formal meadow]

Xanesh or Drest first?

[strong forum]

raden

vita charged

[formal meadow]

REally? why?

[strong forum]

haste is insanely strong

[formal meadow]

Yeah, but since it's not on the list I didn't think it was worth it

Is it the same level as others

[strong forum]

the list isnt really accurate

[formal meadow]

?

oh

[strong forum]

yes its from raid

[formal meadow]

what would you change?

[strong forum]

everything

[formal meadow]

aside from trinkets? or just trinkets?

[strong forum]

in a vision rn

gimme sec

[formal meadow]

sure mate

[strong forum]

offensively you want scale + vita from raid

[lime plume]

Is torment in a jar really that strong for damage compared to something like a raid haste trinket like the scale or vita?

[strong forum]

defensively you only want nzoth

torment is the strongest RAW dmg trinket

[still pagoda]

Just stack haste

[strong forum]

however you benefit more from haste trinkets as prot warrior

its our best offensive and best defensive stat

vita is a MASSIVE haste buff with low uptime

scale is a mediocre haste buff with high uptime

and rezans is just between them

with decently sized haste buff with good uptime

[sharp night]

vita has average same uptime as rezan 🤔

[sweet summit]

Thanks Karton, ill steal that

[strong forum]

last time i checked vita is just below 20% uptime and rezan 20-30%

[sweet summit]

Both have same rppm

[sharp night]

they are both 1rppm don't rely on random logs

i've seen plenty of logs of people with 35%+ uptime on vita

[still pagoda]

blizz like to put internal cooldown on some trinkets

[strong forum]

im going by my own logs

[still pagoda]

to balance it out

so rppm may be the same

but other internal stuff may vary

[strong forum]

not saying they cant be same uptime

[formal meadow]

would you change anything?

[sharp night]

there's no icd in the spelldata

[formal meadow]

@strong forum

[strong forum]

everything but azerite and trinkets relies on RNG to be bis

azerite is correct

trinkets we just had a long discussion

also weapon is wrong

weapon should be the one from carapace

[formal meadow]

thanks mate

appreciate it

wait what about corruption? don't these switch when I get the right corruption?

[strong forum]

TD all the way

done

its very simple for tanks

[formal meadow]

even with lower ilvl?

[strong forum]

yes

[left hatch]

lower ilvl in general? or lower ilvl TD piece

[strong forum]

TD doesnt scale with ilvl

[left hatch]

^

only GW, TA and IS scale with ilvl

[modern brook]

@modern brook member the viable memes?
@daring marlin a simpler time tbh

[sick sentinel]

I have an odd question ... how do you tell a warrior to stop using all rage on revenge and start using it ignore pain and shield block without making him mad?

[still pagoda]

@sick sentinel kick this idiot out of your group and ask him to change

[warm plinth]

Uh, our resource is Rage, we are always mad

[modern brook]

"Use the fucking shield u 🐒 "

[left hatch]

tell him that dying isn't worth the trivial amount of DPS revenge does

[still pagoda]

Such idiots are unchangeable

[strong forum]

hes actually losing dps by not pressing Ignore Pain

[still pagoda]

^

Also this

[sick sentinel]

playing on my paladin healing and this is painful

[modern brook]

Bro just ignore it

[left hatch]

never heal him again

ez fix

[modern brook]

^

[still pagoda]

^

Seriously

Kick this dude out

No need to keep such around

[left hatch]

theres some kinda stupid you just can't fix

and id bet money that even if you did try to help him hes the type to just blame the healer

despite never having active mitigation up

[modern brook]

On the real If hes a pugger it doesnt matter replace him and if hes ur key tank and he cant take criticism ur group wont make it past 15s

[sick sentinel]

than you all so much ... was confused why a warrior was so squishy

[left hatch]

so best case scenario hes just gonna tell you to stfu and call you shit

[still pagoda]

Playing prot war correctly = not taking any big spikes of damage whatsoever and not taking damage in general

Welcome to the protwar fiesta

[left hatch]

tbh if hes a guildie or something and doesn't hit SB or IP hes not gonna make it TO 15's

[still pagoda]

tbh if hes a guildie or something and doesn't hit SB or IP hes not gonna make it TO 15's

To 10's*

[sick sentinel]

was a random queue for gundrak

[left hatch]

oh its leveling content

[still pagoda]

Kek

[left hatch]

in his defence some leveling dungeons are just scaled super fucking poorly

[still pagoda]

Actually yes

[left hatch]

probably not hte case here but. it sometimes is

[still pagoda]

WotLK dungeons are the middle of the road in terms of tuning iicr

Not great, not terrible

[left hatch]

the charge rhinos at the end can take you to 1/3 health on pull if yo'ure not careful

[sick sentinel]

... i did gundrak yesterday on my warrior nowhere did my heal spike from 100 to 50 so quick

[left hatch]

so if you double pull its basically a instadeath

if you dont preemtively SB

[sick sentinel]

i mean we got a new tank and no problem with them, used shouts, thunderclaps my only confusion was they were almost capped rage and health all fight

[left hatch]

its a leveling dungeon so im a lot more forgiving of bad

people are missing a huge part of their kits

and can't be expected to perfectly play

and it can be jarring when you go from completely trivial dungeons you can just ./sit all dungeon and not feel it

to things that are scaled to expecting you to use Active mit

so idk

[sick sentinel]

true, trying to play all tanks and healers to know how to react in every instance, knowing what i'm working with helps. Just don't know how to ask someone to change how they are playing by a skill or 2

[left hatch]

in leveling content you really can't

they're still learning (hopefully)

and depending on what levels unlock diff parts of their kit, what they SHOULD be doing varies wildly

and almost every guide is tailored for play at max level with everything at your disposal

so you can't even tell them to 'here go read this'

hell id argue that DS isn't worth using at the level you're at

no rage gen, no dps increase, no cdr from AM

and a 15% DR is so tiny when everything dies in like 5s

that its only use is to mitigate tank busters, and that requires you to remember mechanics on ancient fights lol

so TLDR leveling content is irrelevent and you shouldn't be too hard on how people perform in it cause a bunch of dumb reasons (:

thanks for coming to my TED talk

[strong forum]

complaining about leveling is like complaining about a car not going fast enough in 1st gear

[sick sentinel]

my only thing is if you're cocky about it then i need to ask question

[left hatch]

lol people being cocky in leveling content is jsut funny

[remote crown]

anyone know if i can use the droptimizer feature of raidbots to specify which traits i consider valuable, as opposed to going strictly for dps?

[left hatch]

imagine bragging about being top dps as an arcane mage between like .... 40-80

oooh boy you hit that arcane explosion real good

[strong forum]

i dont think so fspy

its stricly dps

[sick sentinel]

morrison i only see that in pvp lol

[left hatch]

the traits you consider valuable are 3xBOM, 1xDC and filling in the blanks with 2 HoD, CH or MS

ez pz

[strong forum]

^

[remote crown]

yes but i'm going to gamble

i'd like to know my odds 🙂

[strong forum]

2/7

for bis

[sick sentinel]

thank you all so much

[left hatch]

if you don't already have 475 shoulders

theres proportionally more shoulders with BOM than the other slots

so its a good first gamble

[strong forum]

i think its 6/7 have bom?

shoulders

5/7 or 6/7

either or

[left hatch]

something like that

[remote crown]

my azerite is 450, BoM/IF helm, BoM/BfI shoulders, IF/DC chest

i strictly do m+

[left hatch]

tough to recommend a chest roll there because you might lose DC

[remote crown]

yeah 😦 even tho other traits are kinda bad i agree

[left hatch]

and with no heroic raid to make up for it

your other traits are fine

[strong forum]

i guess you should roll shoulders then

[left hatch]

IF and BFI are very strong, especially before you get a 475 shield

[strong forum]

but i would do 460s first

honestly

rather get 3 decent 460s than a bad 475

[remote crown]

ive done 18 7+ AD and zero shields dropped, i lost hope

[strong forum]

yea weapons / shields are rare

[remote crown]

yeah i am doing 2 460s right now

[left hatch]

helm/shoulders then

[remote crown]

i'll ge tshoulders

[left hatch]

and pray you get a helm with DC

[remote crown]

if shoulders come with DC chest

oh right

helm first then?

[left hatch]

just get both at once tbh

[remote crown]

ok

😄

[left hatch]

and take w/e the ilvl is and move on

its not worth gambling multiples in 1 slot on 460 gear

[remote crown]

putrid path helm, tank buster shoulders

[strong forum]

tank buster is bis shoulders

[faint bridge]

is there a weak aura for telling group when i go in obelisk in MM+ ?

[strong forum]

putrid path is unluck

yes

[remote crown]

my character is CURSED

yesterday i did all the chores and i got 3 bracers

[strong forum]

https://wago.io/TankEnteringNyalotha @faint bridge

[remote crown]

weekly 460, bracers, m+ reward, bracers, assault chest, bracers

[left hatch]

putrid path is ok

still has BOM

and IF

[strong forum]

oh does it?

[faint bridge]

thanks @strong forum 👍🏼

[strong forum]

i though it was bfi + filthy infusion

ah nvm then

good piece then

my bad

[remote crown]

seems p good!

[left hatch]

sucks that yo'rue forced into a Heed in middle row

but thats basically the only 'bad' ring on it

[strong forum]

heed isnt bad

[remote crown]

its ok i had rezan b4

[strong forum]

:angery:

i like hmc

[left hatch]

its not but its no UF/OP

[polar thistle]

is ineffable truth useful?

[strong forum]

its okay

not bad not great

[left hatch]

not bad

but damage corruptions are far superior

[remote crown]

i have versa on dmg taken bracers, tentacle bracers, IS bracers, socketed bracers :P
ineffable legs, echoing void legs

[left hatch]

EV legs and Tentacle bracers are probably your best bet

[remote crown]

thats what ive been running! :D
i couldnt earlier because it would put me over 50 corruption

[left hatch]

ove r50 is fine

[remote crown]

so is clockwork heart better than brace for impact?

[left hatch]

i usually run as close to 59 as possible

[remote crown]

i also have r2 mind flay on ring

[left hatch]

easy answer with corruption is go run a top gear sim

[remote crown]

oh right

yeah, sorry!

[left hatch]

and set the slider to 39 or 59 depending on what you're comfortable with

for M+ you'll wanna do 3 patchwerk sims
1t 3m w/ lust
3t 1.5m no lust
5t 1.5m no lust

[still pagoda]

I'm just running 2 VRs for since i don't have anything else

But well, i didn't farm M+ in big amounts yet

[left hatch]

visions is what you'll wanna farm for corruption

[still pagoda]

Have a lot of other stuff to do IRL

[remote crown]

yeah m+ isnt great for corruptions

[still pagoda]

Visions are pretty interesting piece of content IMO

[left hatch]

i like them a lot

worst part about them is the hoops you have to jump through to participate in em

[still pagoda]

I'm yet to delve deep due to cloak being low lvl

[left hatch]

if you figure out potions

and get the elite extermination upgrade

you can full clear

[still pagoda]

Yea, i've read guides and got WAs already

Aight

[left hatch]

and figuring out crystal spawns is a huge boost to catching up

free 425 mementos each run is big

[still pagoda]

Time to sleep. Will do more visions and M+ tomorrow

HandyNotes is a must-have as far as i can see

[remote crown]

do i need to fix anything?

[left hatch]

i pref elemental whirl over blood siphon

but thats more feelycrafty

[strong forum]

i would personally use elemental whirl on shoulders and heed my call instead of earthlink on chest

but thats very minor

[remote crown]

those are the 2 i was in doubt, because the IV guide ranks what i picked higher

[strong forum]

it ranks by defensive value

[remote crown]

and blood siphon is mastery, feels weird

[strong forum]

HMC has 0 defensive value

but higher offensive value than earthlink has defensive value

[left hatch]

IV is a great guide, but its more of a starting point for new players

and yeh its exclusively focused on def

[remote crown]

i'll change them then

[left hatch]

which.... in M+ you can't look at just DEF in a bubble

[strong forum]

its not incredibly necessary

[remote crown]

and i'm new to war, only 2 weeks so far 🙂

[strong forum]

thats fine

[remote crown]

alright, thank you very much for the help 😄

[formal meadow]

which one?

[strong forum]

455 + 460

[formal meadow]

~even with no haste?

this confuses me sometimes

[left hatch]

most times more stats > better stats

and that crit is juicy

plus Mastery is only devalued if you have a 3 stack of BOM

[ivory barn]

@formal meadow what UI font is that?

[formal meadow]

Avant garde I think

do i leave it like this?

[regal star]

hey guys is vial of animated blood or sigil of warding any good?

[strong forum]

they serve different purposes

but sigil is rather underwhelming

and vial is good dps

[regal star]

ok cool so would i use 475 vial over vita, dragonscale, rezans?

[strong forum]

i wouldnt

just run double haste everywhere

done

[regal star]

yea usually i have been running dragonscale/rezans but got vial from chest then vita and sigil last night so unsure which to use lol im thinking vita and maybe dragonscale

[strong forum]

Vita + rezan / scale is very good for everything

Sigil is only good for ilgynoth

[regal star]

ok sweet ill just sim between rezan and scale to see what does more dps and ahh ok then i didnt think it was any good but cant hurt to ask

[exotic spoke]

This is getting excessive i think:

Out of combat

[regal star]

is it normal for vita to sim at a dps loss compared to dragonscale/rezan?

[sick sentinel]

yeah

vita buff uptime is really low

compared to dragonscale

that might be the reason why

about to hit 120 on my warrior anyone have a link for advice?

[formal meadow]

for raiding and m+ aegies of the deep rank 3 or CoS/SotW rank1?

Aegies right?

[warm plinth]

I'm hard blanking on what CoS is

Just about anything would be better than Aegis on a ST fight though so

[left hatch]

for raid you want VoP/CoF major with CnS, Null, Void minors

Lucid is a good sub in if you don't have CnS yet

for M+ you want VoP major with CnS, Lucid, and either Sphere of SotW depending on if you need the resistance or not

aegis pretty meh if you're not actively playing around it

which requires constantly chain pulling, including pulling mobs into boss fights

[analog zinc]

I just died on Xanesh 🙂

[hallow phoenix]

Does the tank add on ilgynoth charge a random player or is it furthest player

[mortal brook]

random, favors furthest

[elfin nexus]

wat essences you guys running this week? anything different?

[wheat bronze]

Yeah, we noticed the add not targetting furthest players

[sick sentinel]

Id run cns

[maiden ravine]

today I see someone asking for Vengeance nerfs. 😄

[hallow willow]

For spamming dungeons to level, would dragon roar be better than unstoppable force?

Or any suggestions for talents while leveling (45 atm) to spam dungeons as prot?

[main shoal]

Is this ok for this week?

mostly doing m+

[ionic fern]

No need to change your essences around for this week specifically. 👀

[main shoal]

i feel i get destroyed by necrotic

😦

[cosmic canyon]

hugs hero

[ionic fern]

Necrotic is a pretty rough affix and will definitely make things harder.
How many stacks are you usually taking?
Are you starting to kite at appropriate times?
Are you using your defensive cooldowns/SB properly to reduce the upfront damage?

[main shoal]

I usually kite at around 25+ or thirty depending

but still sucks cuz sometimes i just get bodied lul

[sick sentinel]

If you are getting wrecked before 25-30... you are likely having lapses in mitigation which combined with necrotic can be a mess

[ionic fern]

This week IS kinda special tho...
You get to 25+ stacks...start kiting...mobs start dying at the same time..bursting damage comes in and you just get messed up.

So you have to take the mob health into account as well due to bursting.

[sick sentinel]

Call for bop

Cancel aura

Profit

[ionic fern]

#IOnlyRunWithShamanHealers.

If only there were any

😦

[main shoal]

My m+ setup is warrior, sin rogue, afli lock, bm hunter and druid

thankfully we have brezes

lol

[ionic fern]

Just check your necrotic stacks/your HP/Mobs HP.
If mobs are about to die and you're at 25+ stacks you will get trucked due to bursting.

A lot of things to take into consideration.

[main shoal]

okay

gotta try that tomorrow

are small pulls the way this affix?

[sick sentinel]

Not necessarily

[ionic fern]

Not necessarily. I was doing pretty big pulls yesterday in WM.
If you keep SB up during the pull your HP doesn't move that much even if you get Necrotic stacks.

[sick sentinel]

Can and should pull big as long as A) you kite when you need to and B) your dps help manage bursting

[ionic fern]

And your healer is ready for it. 👀

[sick sentinel]

That seems like a them problem

[ionic fern]

Bad DPS are a bane to Bursting.

[sick sentinel]

^ dps who just mongo down everything will cause wipes to bursting

[left hatch]

uhhhhh

Null and Aegis

are rarely the play on any week

[ionic fern]

Especially since Necrotic is a "non affix" for them. So they just go "Bluh, easy ..just burst everything down and heal through 10 stacks easily!!"..not taking into consideration that the tank has 25 necrotic stacks.

[main shoal]

haha at least they already know when not to use iris

[left hatch]

Null is fantastic in raid because its reliably consumed and does great ST dps WHEN its consumed regularly

in M+ magic damage makes up a very small portion of the damage so its rarely useful

and between that and its burst dmg not scaling into aoe its a much much more niche pick

[main shoal]

I dont have CnF and dont know what else i can use

[left hatch]

and Aegis is just kinda meh if you're not playing around it, which requires chain pulling and pulling trash into the boss so you remain in combat with 6+ targets all the time

[main shoal]

CnS

[left hatch]

Lucid

and do a battle ground and get rank 1 sphere

and boom

you set (:

both of those are superior options in 90% of cases to null/aegis

[main shoal]

i can buy that but is it ok for r1?

[left hatch]

yup

rank 1 is all you need

r2 is nice for this week cause the 30% slow on everything that hits you but

icing on the cake

[main shoal]

ugh i hate i have to farm bgs for those essences

[ionic fern]

Same, don't worry.

😂

[left hatch]

you only need r1

like if you truly hate bgs

you don't need 2

(:

[main shoal]

i already have bote 1 so i can buy that

gonna try it

[maiden ravine]

weeee, 2 chested a +10 UR at 446 ilvl on blood dk

[potent anvil]

[maiden ravine]

Nose for Trouble was 10% of my freaking healing

what the heck

as a blood dk

DEVASTATION'S HOUR

[amber siren]

vulpera

[maiden ravine]

don't hate

[ionic fern]

@potent anvil how did MDI go?

[potent anvil]

8th place 🙂

Did you not see my rezan pull?

[ionic fern]

I diddn't watch MDi. 😦

Link plz?

[maiden ravine]

Nose for Blood is pretty nice as a racial. 😄

[left hatch]

it loses value the higher up you go

since pulls last longer

on lower content where you blow stuff up though yeh its pretty decent

[severe cloak]

how does shield block stack, like stagger or the guardian AM?

[amber siren]

doesn't stack, 2 SB just adds duration

[severe cloak]

thanks

[potent anvil]

@ionic fern https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrspUOAlsrY

Just watch the first pull, after that you can close the video

[still pagoda]

That's a huge all-in

[maiden ravine]

A 10 isn't super low, and for me being undergeared it was nice

[amber siren]

eh, it's all relative

[maiden ravine]

it's probably pretty good overall on tyrannical weeks since you blow through the trash so fast

[left hatch]

yeh its not bad

remember to use bag of tricks too

crimson vial can do a LOT of dps

if you use it on cd

[maiden ravine]

I do, I love it

[sharp lotus]

Do you guys just avoid the mobs that teleport onto your location during necrotic week?

or is there a trick I can use to kite them

[ionic fern]

Which mobs are those? 👀

[maiden ravine]

the only time mobs warp to you are when you somehow get to somewhere they can't run to

[amber siren]

i think the stalkers in AD can shadowstep

[sharp lotus]

mechagon trooper

[maiden ravine]

oh

what key level are they giving you issues?

[sharp lotus]

sorry, i forgot to say mechagon mobs in my original question

i timed the key fine, i just died once because i didnt anticipate it

just dont want to make that mistake in a key thats coming down to the wire, but it seemed impossible to get away from them.

[maiden ravine]

have a monk

or stun them

there's limited you can do there

but unless you're at 30+ stacks you shouldn't be struggling

it's not the week for massive pulls regardless

[sick sentinel]

It is a week for massive pulls what

No affix that will fuck you from pulling big

You just control bursting well

[left hatch]

asking a lot for your avg dps

things like throttling and focusing escape like 90% of hte playerbase

[sick sentinel]

I always talk about a high key stand point

[ionic fern]

Remember that most people run with PuG's in the rough level of +10-15 keys @sick sentinel

[sick sentinel]

It is they week to pull big

[maiden ravine]

can't throttle when your dots will randomly do 40% of a pack's HP

cause TD procs

[sick sentinel]

Face away

You can control that too

[ionic fern]

DPS don't know when to stop.
Don't know when to CC.
Don't kick etc.

So for the majority of players this is a rough week for big pulls.

[hallow phoenix]

Great week if you play with good players though

[ionic fern]

Jep.

[sick sentinel]

Its tyrannical

Never a good week

[maiden ravine]

that said, it's totally possible to 1 chest 15s this week I think if you pace your pulls

Like I was kinda shocked how easy tanking a 10 was at 446 ilvl on an alt

so I'm feeling confident on my mains to do 15s at least

[still pagoda]

DPS don't know when to stop.
Don't know when to CC.
Don't kick etc.

Lower key pugging in a nutshell

[sweet summit]

Lower key pugging in a nutshell
:^)

[ionic fern]

Plus the damage is horrible. 😦

I did a +16 yesterday with 2k rated people and still ended up top DPS.

[maiden ravine]

Tanks are running td6 now aren't they

One was bragging how his TDs were critting for 1.2 million or something

Was a veng dh of course

I honestly think I'd be more scared of a random 2k dps than I would a 1700-1900 one

2k has a chance of being someone who bought their rating, haha

[ionic fern]

Tbh 2k isn't that hard to get..it's like everything at +14(?) or +15?

[maiden ravine]

All 15s is 1950 or so

[ionic fern]

Close enough

[maiden ravine]

That's why I say 2k is a dangerous number for people getting carried too

[formal meadow]

which Essences for visions?

[maiden ravine]

How many masks?

But in general cof major, vision, sphere and CNS minors I think, swap sphere for formless void if you have it

Granted with a rank 15 cloak and all research, I've done 5 masks running my m+ essences when I get lazy which means vision major

[formal meadow]

which one is pshere?

[amber siren]

sphere of supression, haste/speed on hit and 30% slow

[earnest mist]

what makes the helm of abyssal malevolence so much better than the sea-brawler's greathelm?

the overwhelming power?

both have BoM and DC

[stark ruin]

Overwhelming power is great

[orchid frigate]

can i stop getting Helm of the Raptor King all the time when i gamble for azzy gear?

[sweet summit]

@earnest mist OP and IV

[stark ruin]

I had to check the traitd

Op and iv are strong as hell

[earnest mist]

so would you actually gamble right now or

I have the max engi helm and heroic carapace shoulders

[stark ruin]

I didn't gamble on my warrior for 475s

[daring bay]

So i got 36% haste without into the fray and double haste trinket (wrath and raden)

Is this a bit much?

[sweet summit]

no

@earnest mist you can gamble chest if you dont have a 475 one

[orchid frigate]

same situation, i have the max engi helm. would nozzie helm be better?

hc

[sweet summit]

id take a 5 ilvl loss for BoM

[orchid frigate]

i thought so

thanks!

gotten 1 gambled azerite piece this whole season with BoM

[sweet summit]

i always gamble, as i play all 3 specs the chances of it not being good for any spec is quite low

[earnest mist]

I got essentially 480 max engi helm (bloodsport, RNG, OP) + 475 hc carapace shoulders (DC, BoM, Gutripper)

or

480 sea-brawlers greathelm (DC, BoM, (I guess) Earthlink?) + skitra 465 shoulders (BoM, HoD, OP)

[sweet summit]

swap engi to DC and take IF(?) on the shoulders

[earnest mist]

it's IF ye

so IF over BS?

[stark ruin]

why can't you have sea-brawlers and the carapace shoulders?

[sweet summit]

any day of the week

[stark ruin]

that would be even better

bloodsport is not good

[sweet summit]

but yeah, any helmet at equal ilvl with BoM>Engi helm

[earnest mist]

I thought not take carapace shoulders cause HoD > IF?

[sweet summit]

ilvl

[stark ruin]

10 ilvls

[sweet summit]

is better

[stark ruin]

that's a lot

[earnest mist]

but yeah, any helmet at equal ilvl with BoM>Engi helm
so sea brawlers BoM DC + carapace shoulders IF + BoM?

[sweet summit]

yeah

[earnest mist]

and I guess earthlink over shimmering ahven and azerite globules right

[sweet summit]

yup

[earnest mist]

alright

well I reckon with this head I'll just wait for 20k

[sweet summit]

shimmering is pretty bad, and so is globues

[earnest mist]

to upgrade to abyssal

[sweet summit]

so link it is

[earnest mist]

I think this helm is fairly decent for now

I'd even say it's #2 bis from vendor

[stark ruin]

alternatively, you can target buy shoulders

for 5 ilvls

[earnest mist]

I'm hoping for skitra mythic shoulders

[sweet summit]

or chest?

[earnest mist]

with skitra shoulders I dont think Id need the azerite vendor ones no?

[stark ruin]

right, I don't raid since getting aotc, so I rule those out 🙂

[earnest mist]

my chest is raden hc

BoI and BoM

[stark ruin]

then upgrade the chest

with a targeted purchase

[sweet summit]

just kill mythic vex 4head

[earnest mist]

so forget about the head and go for chest?

which chest was it again

[sweet summit]

yeah

[stark ruin]

anything on shoulder/helm would be a sidegrade compared to a good 480 chest

[sweet summit]

anything at higher ilvl

[earnest mist]

yeah but if I wait for 20k which one would it be

[stark ruin]

if you have the residuum, either the mechagon chest or ashvane's

[sweet summit]

the 3 "bis" chests are vex, ashvane and mecha

iirc mecha chest is slightly better than ashvane warden

but that might be different depending one ones gear

[earnest mist]

@sweet summit I guess on those two one would go for meticilous scheming or clockwork heart and not brace for impact or revenge one

[sweet summit]

yeah

[earnest mist]

alright thanks a lot

[sweet summit]

[earnest mist]

sims say cleanse the 475 and use that instead, I guess that this upgrade makes sense even though I lose a ton of haste?

I do get ilvl + vers though

and avoidance

[sweet summit]

more stats>better stats

[loud rain]

plus more crit clap damage 😛

[copper lion]

Is there a point where you can have 100% uptime on SB?

[strong forum]

200% haste

So, no

Not realistically

[still pagoda]

^

[copper lion]

Necrotic last night was a complete disaster

[still pagoda]

i've got to 150% on all the procs today

but that's the maximum i may be able to get

ah

finally

ping stabilized

[copper lion]

So there’s definitely going to be a gap in your SB no matter what

[strong forum]

You fill in the blanks with LS and kiting here and there

You can get close to 100% block uptime with that

But SB specifically will have big gaps

[still pagoda]

kek. 470 Helm with all i need from this week's event quest

[strong forum]

Ye nzoth helmet is pretty fucking good

[sweet summit]

thats big mate

[still pagoda]

i was hoping for vita, but this is great too

since helm, trinkets and shield are the only things left that are in 400-415ilvl bracket

everything else is mostly 430-455 already

[onyx vessel]

Oof shield that low

Get them m0s done

[brisk ferry]

BoE shield must be coming down in price now

[autumn pendant]

conquest cap shield is 440

worth a cap