protection

[left hatch]

only trait worth ilvl is your first DC

otherwise ILVL will almost always win

unless you're like replacing something bis like BOM+CH for something like Callous and bloodsport

[fleet onyx]

ty

[hallow phoenix]

It's pretty common for people to trade 5 ilvl (nzoth/carapace azerite) to get the better traits on them if they're stuck with something like CR+Tradewinds

[left hatch]

neither

it gives flat % rating

[hallow phoenix]

It's multiplicative

[left hatch]

its not though

at least i didn't think it was, i thought it was just a flat % that gets added to w/e else you had

[hallow phoenix]

It is

Multiplicative

[left hatch]

huh

[hallow phoenix]

It's very easy to check in game

[left hatch]

well i fundamentally misunderstood it then lol

[hallow phoenix]

It's the same as expedient

[south spruce]

Sup fellas, New prot warrior here trying to gear for m+, been looking for a Bis list I should aim for. Can anyone help me out? Getting different results from the interweb

[left hatch]

corruption kinda throws a BiS list outta whack

in most cases ILVL>everything else

for raid illvl>haste>verse
for M+ ilvl>haste>crit

[hallow phoenix]

There's bis azerite I suppose

Kind of

[left hatch]

true but even then theres plenty of alternatives that are really friggen close

[hallow phoenix]

Yeah

Plus ilvl wins there too

[south spruce]

so there is no items I should definitely aim for?

like weapons/shield

[left hatch]

for trinkets go for some combo of Dragonscale, Vita, Rezan's gleaming eye, Butchers Block

weapons and shield you go with w/e the highest ilvl you can get

[south spruce]

I already got Rezan's Eye at M4 now so thats lucky I guess

[left hatch]

if you have pieces of equivilant ilvl then go for haste>verse or haste>crit depedning on the content yo'ure more focused on

traits you ideally wanna get a 3 stack of Bastion of might, 1 Deafening Crash, and fill in the blanks with 2 other traits. ideal world Clockwork Heart, Meticulous Scheming or Heart of Darkness

[ivory barn]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tCYnYfV6NQ2ZmxAexnBB5a ..... to much Corruption? 🤔

[left hatch]

and as for corruptions, that gets a bit wonkier cause ilvl stops mattering as much

in most cases just sim yourself with the options you have

[hallow phoenix]

Anyway concerning ItF if you have 30% haste baseline then 5 stack ItF will put you at 49.5% haste (1.30 × 1.15) instead of 45% haste

[left hatch]

but Twilight Devestation, Gushing Wounds are 'bis' for most content

[sweet summit]

55 is playable

[left hatch]

^

i havn't dropped below 40 since like the 3rd or 4th week

but i also trust my healer

[sweet summit]

i trust my healer, but not the dps players : )

[strong forum]

55 is fine

[left hatch]

esp since that seems like a raid setup

and raid is even more trivial and boring than M+

boring in the sense of damage intake

[hallow phoenix]

I think I run 79 on dog

[south spruce]

thanks a bunch fellas

[strong forum]

Curious to see what my sim ends up at tbh

From armory

Lemme check

[modern brook]

What?

[sweet summit]

smells like classic

[modern brook]

Oh

[sweet summit]

#vanilla-discussion

[stable kindle]

wron channel mybad

[sweet summit]

no worries

[rugged reef]

hey got a question i use the wrathion trink and the rezan trink. do they stack or has it some internal cd that i need to know of?

[warm plinth]

They can stack just fine. No ICD of any kind

[rugged reef]

ok tyvm

[raw socket]

is rank 2 conflict and strife worth using all the time

[hallow phoenix]

Not all the time

[left hatch]

depends what your alternatives have

are*

[raw socket]

i have most other rank 3s

not logged on so i cant check

[left hatch]

then proabbly not

[raw socket]

but i just got rank2 conflict

[left hatch]

VoP major, Lucid, Sphere, Str of warden

and swap out sphere once you get r3 CnS

[raw socket]

my str of warden is rank 2

[left hatch]

thats fine

its a mostly dead slot you use for resistance

[raw socket]

better than rank2 cnf?

ahh

[left hatch]

if you don't need the resistance than use aegis in its place for rn

[raw socket]

gotcha

[strong forum]

OK im sad, nerdbot Sims more than me

I guess TD isn't so much simpad on ST

[hallow phoenix]

IS always sims higher but almost always it's outperformed by TD

[strong forum]

Well he's using EV

[hallow phoenix]

Same thing

[strong forum]

With IS I can sim like 70k+

[hallow phoenix]

Per rating EV sims higher single target I believe

But it can't pop off or cleave adds the same way TD can

[strong forum]

Still bothers me to sim only 59.6k

[hallow phoenix]

I think my IS sim is at 71k now :^)

[strong forum]

My arms IS sim is 123k at 198 corruption

[hallow phoenix]

That's a lot of ruption

[strong forum]

IS 8

[hallow phoenix]

I have only IS 2 :(

[strong forum]

And 1x strike through

Das alot of dmg then if you only have IS2

And you get to 71k sim

[hallow phoenix]

TD3 IS2

[strong forum]

Mh

I'm using TD5 and only 59k.

Guess my gear is gimped

For some reason

[hallow phoenix]

TD5 is my actual setup for most bosses

[strong forum]

Even though I have like 2.8k haste and 1.7k crit

[hallow phoenix]

I think it's 66k sim?

[strong forum]

You using coral? Cuz I'm using vita + rezan

[hallow phoenix]

In sims and most bosses yeah

[strong forum]

Maybe that'll give me some simpad

[hallow phoenix]

Gives real pad too

[strong forum]

But can't for another 4hrs cuz im at work and was armory sim

[hallow phoenix]

Coral is great on so many fights

I really want another TD3 piece so I can run gushing wound and TD3

[strong forum]

Idk, haven't done raid in almost 2 months

Ever since I got nzoth helmet I yeeted outta there

Never to be seen on warrior

[hallow phoenix]

Should I open my weekly chest as prot in hopes for a corrupted shield or weapon

Or as arms so I don't get another 475 sporepod

[leaden dune]

Is this a bad week for prot ? Just about try out tanking

[strong forum]

No week is bad for prot

Prot is arguably the best tank for necrotic

[sick sentinel]

guys, consider to reroll prot warrior sl, do i understand that right, with sl you have to spec into double intercept?

[sweet summit]

dont need healing when you dont take damage

[strong forum]

You only get double charge, not double intervene

They're gonna be 2 different buttons

[sick sentinel]

mmhm

thats unlucky, i love the charge/intervene right now 😦

[strong forum]

You have 1 intervene and 1 charge, double time gives you 2 charges

[sick sentinel]

ah

[still pagoda]

i have a really nooby question

Is Anima of Life and Death anywhere good?

just got it and wondering whether it is worth to use even in the minor slot

[sweet summit]

decent for freehold carries

and islands

the minor is trash

[chilly brook]

@sick sentinel keep in mind if you're thinking about rerolling prot in SL because you like the way it plays now it's not going to play like it does now if the changes in alpha stay

[still pagoda]

@sweet summit thanks xD

i'm yet to get CnS and other good ones(except for Lucid and VoP that i've got almost instantly)

[lean arch]

is DC a must have? or worth losing it going from 465>480

[sweet summit]

you cant get DC on any other azerite?

[sick sentinel]

Dc is a must have yes

[lean arch]

no

[sweet summit]

then keep the 465

[left hatch]

your first DC is a must have

[lean arch]

ok

[still pagoda]

my DC is in 390 chest

guess... with my luck it will be permanently on me

[lunar grove]

whats DC?

[sweet summit]

deafening crash

azerite trait

[sick sentinel]

Where’s ghash when you need him

[strong forum]

Just make a statement with a verb

[novel dust]

if my 465 az has bastion and my 480 doesn't, is the 480 worth using?

[strong forum]

I'm sure he'll respond with :' you're X'

Generally yes, unless the 480 has CR + BS @novel dust

[novel dust]

t1hanks

[sick sentinel]

Is dh discord worth joining as my dh rises to power

[hallow phoenix]

i hear its pretty meme

[strong forum]

It is pretty meme, but vengeance isn't half bad

Rest of the channels I haven't touched

But you can get some answers from their vengeance channels, and you might see some familiar faces

:)

[sick sentinel]

Excellent

[royal temple]

hi all, without rank 3 strife is it still a good minor to use ?

[brittle owl]

also nsfw channel

...sometimes

[strong forum]

cns r2 to r3 is a 60% power gain @royal temple

So id say no

[royal temple]

thanks x

[hallow phoenix]

aww yiss bracers again

[placid mango]

so does

a shield's block stat have no actual value whatsoever

I just increased my shield's ilvl by 40 (1700 block stat) and my block chance went up by 0.29%

is my shield just a stat stick

:/

[modern brook]

No and no

Block != block chance

[placid mango]

oh

ok cool

so what's the block stat

and how do I ^ my block%

[modern brook]

Block is literally how much you block

U can up ur block % by pressing shield block

iirc the damage reduction formula is something like

block /(block+k)

== damage reduction from blocking

[placid mango]

k?

[modern brook]

K value - basically a magic number to keep you from being able to block 100% of incoming damage

it gets bumped every content update

Im sure #268491842637660160 has the current number that its at

Knowing it is pretty whatever imo though. Its not going to affect your gearing choices at all

but its also the reason u feel squishy af at the start of every content update

[elder isle]

hmm is this any good sorry

[modern brook]

so its worth knowing about

[elder isle]

my existing corruption isnt that good i guess

[modern brook]

stats are good

Its not TD

[fathom stag]

Just started tanking in mythic raid last week b/c our prot pally left on shad'har prog (also lost 2 core healers, RIP). I'm having a really difficult time mitigating dissolve. Is pooling rage for ignore pain spam (for possible dissolvex2) a worthwhile strategy?

Or maybe should I just continue running my 455 lingering psychic shell.

[loud rain]

spell reflect will help some

can also wall it

i would wall the first 2 disolve you get

[strong forum]

Dissolve is magic dmg

So you have to rely on CDs, IP, SR, Demo shout and SW to midigate its damage

[loud rain]

also healer externals should be at your beakon

[fathom stag]

We're rotating the externals for poisonx4.

Should I hold demo shout for the dissolve then?

I feel like I get more value from demo shout to reduce melee hits

[loud rain]

yea i would shout on cd

LPS isnt a bad idea

but wall first 1

cuz you might only get 1 a pull

and wall is close to a 2 minute cd

[fathom stag]

I see. That's a very good point. Thanks!

[hallow phoenix]

TD1 bracers wew

actually something good from visions

[mortal brook]

bless

[elder isle]

all my sims are telling me to purify these... why?

i thought this one was so good

[strong forum]

Cuz you might have other better corruptions

[elder isle]

single target sim

(its telling me to wear 460 gloves but thats really = purify my 470 ones i guess)

[strong forum]

So what seems to be the issue

[elder isle]

i thought haste was best stat

[strong forum]

Can't really judge alot by that screenshot

Yes but you have a socket in your other bracers, and ST dmg wise better corruptions in other slots

[modern brook]

Haste is not best stat cause it does the best st damage

[elder isle]

yea true that good point

[modern brook]

Which is all your sim is checking

[elder isle]

okay makes sense

ill try to keep wearing these 470 gloves

i mainly do mythic+ anyways

[strong forum]

In aoe haste shoots ahead dps wise

And it's best survival stat

The proc itself has 33% uptime

[elder isle]

yeah that makes sense

its crazy how good void ritual is

[chilly brook]

Tbh it's not that crazy

It's a huge amount of secondary stats

For every stat

[sweet summit]

enchant your ring

[elder isle]

i did 🙂

[sweet summit]

[elder isle]

i think im gonna use my 465 belt instead of 470 void ritual belt

idk

so hard to dedcide

[buoyant osprey]

Hey, is 43% haste too much? Should I gem/enchant Versatility instead?

[hallow phoenix]

no caps

[sweet summit]

i have like 52 and im not satisfied

[buoyant osprey]

I'm never satisfy but I feel I could use a bit more mitigation

[left hatch]

haste does translate to more mitigation though

[buoyant osprey]

20crit
43haste
32mast
6verst.

[left hatch]

%'s are meaningless

[buoyant osprey]

kk

[mortal brook]

haste is mitigation. better angermanagement, more rage gen in general, higher SB uptime

[placid mango]

@modern brook i get that it's not critical to know but I want to know what about it would be anyways and idk where to find it, any clue?

[sweet summit]

more haste=more SB, more LS, more Avatar, more DS, more SW

[left hatch]

ilvl>haste/crit for M+
ilvl>haste/verse for raid

[modern brook]

More haste = more rage gen = more rage spend = more cdr = more cd uptime

[left hatch]

and even if you say have... 5 sockets

thatll give you 250 more verse which comes out to a whopping like 1.something % dr

its not going to change anything

[buoyant osprey]

I get all this, but looking at top IO I see alot of 35% haste and the rest in Versatility and I was wondering If I was doing something wrong

[left hatch]

theres a long write up in the second pin

[modern brook]

Pulls in 25s are fundementally different than a pull in a 15

[left hatch]

on why the strats/essences top io people do arn't applicable for everyone else

and the same can be applied to what corruptions they run, what statlines/builds they use etc

[buoyant osprey]

make sense

[left hatch]

and the TLDR take away is just because XYZ player is doing it in 25's doesn't mean its meta. or even a good practice in lower keys

[modern brook]

@placid mango I believe the pins have a google doc w/ current k values

[buoyant osprey]

I'm sitting at 465 ilvl and I've been struggling to pug above 11.

[elder isle]

wait sorry to be dumb but if i dont need the corruption resistence from Strength of the Warden, what should i be using instead? for m+/vision (about to do vision)

aegis of teh deep?

[mortal brook]

aegis or sphere would be fine

[left hatch]

for visions youd roll CoF major tbh

[elder isle]

oo my sphere is rank 1 sadly

[sweet summit]

thats all you need

[left hatch]

you only need r1

[mortal brook]

sphere1 is fine

[left hatch]

is the struggle due to how squishy you are? or just finding groups

or once you're in a group just generally timing the key

[buoyant osprey]

finding group

[left hatch]

short answer is just boost your IO

[buoyant osprey]

I usually get really bad dps

[left hatch]

find what dungeon yo'ure lacking in

and work your way up

even if its 1 rank at a time

[buoyant osprey]

the thing I dont get is how can you run a +12 and not know mecanics. DPS not interrupting or the most flagrant is thinking the shockwave is the only way to clear spore on the 3rd boss in underot

[sweet summit]

oh boi

[stiff oracle]

Lol

[sweet summit]

even in 20s people fail simple mechanics

just get used to it

[stiff oracle]

You'll get that in 20s too

Haha that

[left hatch]

thats the 5th M+ affix

"pugs"

[buoyant osprey]

ahah

[south spruce]

thats the 5th M+ affix
@left hatch

Oh yes

[strong forum]

Don't worry it's not just pugs

[still pagoda]

heh

pugs are scary

[strong forum]

My people don't interrupt in 21s

Unless you tell them to

[still pagoda]

[strong forum]

Every. Single. Time.

[left hatch]

why i wish every class had a (small) resource gain attributed to their interrupt

[strong forum]

Yo get this

[sweet summit]

dhs dont even kick

[left hatch]

it feels better to interrupt on CD on like a DH cause woo fury

[strong forum]

Evens Dhs don't interrupt

[sweet summit]

that wont help

[strong forum]

Non tanks don't know the importance of doing mechanics

[modern brook]

LOL

[ionic fern]

True tbh

[left hatch]

well of course not 😛 they don't notice anything but their dps meter

if they die its healers fault

[modern brook]

theres maybe 5 demon hunters that actually play demon hunter

[ionic fern]

Tanks/healers are the only ones who notice the fuckups clearly.

[modern brook]

everyone else is a 🐵 following the leader tbh

[ionic fern]

😂

[sweet summit]

healers notice fuckups, but dont know what went wrong

[strong forum]

Yup

[buoyant osprey]

healers notice fuckups, but dont know what went wrong
@sweet summit ahah

[ionic fern]

In m+ you know in general tho due to dungeon/mob knowledge.

[stiff oracle]

I wish they put interupts on global 🙂

[sweet summit]

[stiff oracle]

😂

[ionic fern]

Just play a prot paladin and interrupt everything yourself.

[sweet summit]

but you might die as a paladin

[ionic fern]

But you WILL die as a paladin.

[left hatch]

esp with the shadowlands bastion ability

[sweet summit]

😂

[left hatch]

AOE avengers shield

EVERYTHING gets interrupted

[ionic fern]

Can't interrupt melee hits.

😂

[modern brook]

Paladins are just warriors that are not faithful enough in their 💪

[still pagoda]

paladins are just people who like going SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWW

[left hatch]

why pray to the gods when you can pray to your Bowflex and bench press

be a warrior today

[sweet summit]

the swoly bible is the only book i can read

[still pagoda]

pray to ruck marches

[left hatch]

take my daily communion of protein powder

[modern brook]

Healers are just spotters

[sweet summit]

what about dps players

[modern brook]

they're the guys doing squats with bad forms complimenting ur bicep curls

[left hatch]

they're the people that sign up in january, go twice and let their membership expire

[sweet summit]

both seem accurate

[left hatch]

then brag about how they can bench 250 but its not arm day

[modern brook]

My general rule of thumb is if someone tells me how much they can bench before i ask, they're lying

[left hatch]

seems like a dps

"brah i can totally do like 90k overall"

[sweet summit]

ahahaaha

[left hatch]

🤔

[modern brook]

"My main is 2.2k io"

[chilly brook]

Oh boy

Ruck marches

Is it bad that I actually liked those?

[left hatch]

"I've gotten a gold parse on shad'har"
goes to check it
"well... this is an alt its on my main <.<"

[modern brook]

these jokes are going to bring me out of retirement tbh

[left hatch]

iv actually had someone tell me he does 20's on his main. and hwen ppl checked his main he tried to lie and say its not his main, and he refuses to tell people what his main is for "personal reasons"

[sweet summit]

dont come back, bfa sucks

[left hatch]

it was some big 5head

[sweet summit]

thats a big 5head excuse

[modern brook]

I've been bfa-ing, but on rogue

[sweet summit]

im sorry to hear that

[modern brook]

because i can benchpress 250

[sweet summit]

is that US or EU bench

[left hatch]

oceanic bench only

[modern brook]

hang on i have to look up which is heavier

which in and of itself should say its us

[royal temple]

maybe a silly question but how do you sim your character as prot ? :p

[sweet summit]

raidbots.com/topgear

[left hatch]

what does EU even measure gym weights in... cause g seems super low but 250 kg is pretty huge

[sweet summit]

250kg is very much

[modern brook]

Probably L's in world wars

[sweet summit]

we use kg afaik

[modern brook]

if i had to guess

[left hatch]

and to sim for M+ the most accurate way is doing 3 patchwerk sims
1t 3mins w/ lust
3t 1.5m no lust
5t 1.5m no lust

to kinda give you what gear is best for diff pull sizes

and feelycraft your way to which side you wanna lean on or which circumstances you encounter more often based on your route or what week it is

[modern brook]

does the apl account for aoe now? i thought it was only good for st

[left hatch]

yeh it does fine for aoe

its just the hectic add cleave and dungeon slice are kinda bad

[sweet summit]

not bad, just not very accurate for m+

[left hatch]

so its better (albeit it slightly more annoying) to do 3 patchwerks

[modern brook]

dungeon slice is super accurate for m+ if u pull 1 pack at a time

like an absolute BONEHEAD

[left hatch]

i mean even then 1 pack at a time in FH is super diff from say.. 1 pack at a time in WS

so even if it was accurate for 1 dungeon, using it as a catchall is yikes

[strong forum]

'bro I can totally pull 90k overall'
Then my answer 'gj, I pull that as tank'

:)

[left hatch]

hey me too (:

vdh in M+ is stoopi

[modern brook]

DH is an entire class made for bar whores

"eheheheheheh but im at the top of the dps" says the dh, who missed his kick "ohohohoh but im dealing the most damage says the dh, who forced a wipe immediately after his opening meta ends

"its not my fault, im the most damage"

says the demon hunter not using imprison for fucking anything

[left hatch]

vDH is even more degenerate

[earnest mist]

hey, what are considered as "bis" trinkets? or is there such a thing at all? or is it more like situation based?

[sweet summit]

[left hatch]

Dragonscale, Rezans, Vita, Butchers Block

some combo of those 4

'mash sheer and spawn 5000000000 TD beams with a 1.5m healthpool'

1 button rotation -> top dps

big 5head class

takes much skill

[earnest mist]

I got dragonscale 460, lingering shell with socket 470, drest trink 460, torment in a jar 460 and sigil of warding 460

[left hatch]

what key level you doing

[earnest mist]

mainly 15s but want to go higher

[left hatch]

scale + torment

[earnest mist]

torment over drest?

[sweet summit]

drest is bfa split

[left hatch]

shell is a really good trinket, but only if you need it, and its very unlikely you will in 15's

and if you don't know when yo'ull need it, and are using it on cd its a waste

sigil is just garbage

and yah drest doesn't perform that well cause its a damage split

[earnest mist]

I guess modular platinum plating is as well then/

[sweet summit]

worst trinket in the game

no joke

[left hatch]

plating is the worst tinket in game

[earnest mist]

ye, I figured

[left hatch]

followed close behind by and bandages

[cinder storm]

spores is kinda meme pvp build tho imo

[left hatch]

it was

[earnest mist]

so scale + torment unless I am prepared to take giga damage, then just run shell with dragonscale?

[left hatch]

it got giganerfed

[sweet summit]

it got nuked in pvp

[cinder storm]

oh

[left hatch]

from what you got yeh

[earnest mist]

alright cheers

[left hatch]

try to pick up a vita from rezan

[earnest mist]

and I should aim to get vita and rezan

[cinder storm]

how's the WS auto-hammer thing, has that been nerfed?

[left hatch]

or do some Atal/Waycrest

[sweet summit]

got fixed afaik

but stacking players still works

just remember to move

[earnest mist]

is vita straight up better than dragonscale?

[sweet summit]

yeah

vita is giga overstatted

[earnest mist]

rezans as well?

[buoyant osprey]

Another question, in +10s, with awakening, is it worth to use Dratnos routes even if you aren't clearing very high Keys?

[left hatch]

yeh vita is the best

yeh

[sweet summit]

rezan is more haste but lower uptime than scale

[earnest mist]

so vita -> rezan -> scale?

[buoyant osprey]

I feel DPS never know where to go when I drag the bosses

[left hatch]

rezan is kinda on par with scale

its very feelycraft if you want bigger proc or better uptime

[earnest mist]

460 scale we're talking about right

or 475

[sweet summit]

for dps, probably
scale is a bit better defensively due to more consistent

[left hatch]

yeh at equal ilvl

getting a socket or higher ilvl on either instnatly makes it superior to the other

[earnest mist]

alright appreciate yall

[left hatch]

but yah at the very least seeing what dratnos recommends can give you a nice start to making your own strats

to see what ppl are skipping so you don't wind up with like 50% extra trash

[sweet summit]

@buoyant osprey thats what his routes are for, i think he still has bacis and advanced routes. so you have two to pick from of each dungeon

[earnest mist]

I got a rezans 455 though, does it beat the torment 460?

[left hatch]

at 15's id sim it

[earnest mist]

have it titanforged from before lol

[left hatch]

and take w/e gives me more dps

but for my group the damage intake in 15's is laughable

[earnest mist]

for higher you'd run the shell anyway probably right

[left hatch]

i wouldn't touch shell till i was close to 20's

[earnest mist]

with scale

dragonscale I mean

[left hatch]

but im also not pugging

[cinder storm]

I pug in the 18s - 19s range, I would recommend it specially for siegebreaker, sometimes you can't trust a heals too much, on pug that is

[left hatch]

that being said its also not generally good practice to run something just for 1 thing

cause then its a dead slot for the other 99% of the dungeon

[earnest mist]

and you'd sim for m+ also like 3 target 90 seconds no bloodlust?

[left hatch]

so if you do that just pull bigger/riskier

[sweet summit]

get a hunter and force him to pet-taunt it ;)

[left hatch]

3 patchwerk sims
1t 3m lust
3t 1.5m no lust
5t 1.5m no lust

[cinder storm]

I've had hunters that forget to even lust 😉

[modern brook]

dang u type fast morrison

[left hatch]

thanks i work out

[buoyant osprey]

250 easy

[left hatch]

easy

250 what? words per minute? kilometers per hour? who knows

units do'nt matter

[modern brook]

u hit it tho

[buoyant osprey]

all

[sweet summit]

sausages devoured an hour

[undone sun]

250 units

[cinder storm]

250 yes

[strong forum]

250 freedom units per football field

[elder isle]

wow i feel like an absolute idiot i got Cheat Deathed by the Valley of Spirits guy and then killed by the other Valley of Spirits guy

ive never had any problems in valley of spirits before no idea what just happened hahahaha

[strong forum]

That's a think

[elder isle]

ive done org 5mask twice and just breezed thru

[left hatch]

wait whats scary in valley of spirits

[elder isle]

the first cheat death happened because i got a gift proc on the second pack and was like fuckit and leaped into the boss without pullin the packs in front

wait i mean valley of honor

[left hatch]

ah

[tawny maple]

Do yall think 3x bom is better or 2x bom with the engy helm

[elder isle]

wisdom!

valley of wisdom LMAO

[sweet summit]

1st dc(~15 ilvls worth)>all other ilvl increases>bom>HoD/BfI/IF/CwH/MS

[tawny maple]

ill just sim

[sweet summit]

you want 3x bom if possible

[left hatch]

the last 2 weeks i havn't even been doing more than 1 5mask

[sweet summit]

without losing ilvl

[elder isle]

got gift on the two Red X guys and just went teh green path to boss asap lol. never gonna do it again

[left hatch]

i do a 5mask then a bunch of 4s

cause the minimal memento gain isn't worth the aggravation

[elder isle]

yea i only do one 5mask then a bunch of 4s

[left hatch]

esp when i only need 2 more sockets

[leaden dune]

Guys this is confusing me where do I find pins lol

[elder isle]

i warmed up with 4 and didnt even cheat death so i was like fukkit 5 is ez

[leaden dune]

Heard there a big write up

[elder isle]

i was wrong

[left hatch]

upper right, thumbtack icon

[leaden dune]

I wanna read it gonna get into prot

[leaden dune]

Thankyou

[left hatch]

also check #268491842637660160 for more info and stoof

idk what you're looking for a write up on

[earnest mist]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6BWQtGJbbGsayymsCRxdM3 I guess I should run dragonscale + torment then?

[modern brook]

How to press thunderclap

[earnest mist]

or actually go drest + torment for 15s?

[sweet summit]

id take scale over drest

[left hatch]

depends on what the aoe/st sims say

but yah 300 dps difference bewteen drest and scale

is nothing

[earnest mist]

it's same

basically

[elder isle]

sigma is a cool username nice dude

[fossil sparrow]

are sockets still worth 10ilvls?

[earnest mist]

thanks dude, but I was sigma before sigma came to ow

[sweet summit]

depends on piece

[left hatch]

depends on slot

pants, hell no

[earnest mist]

if that's what you're referring

[elder isle]

no i didnt know there was a sigma in OW

i only know sigma in 999 series

[left hatch]

wrists/belt mebe

[leaden dune]

I don’t raid best professions to run

[fossil sparrow]

on weapon, 445 vex vs a 455 AD wep

[sweet summit]

engi/bs/jc/alc

[leaden dune]

Which you recommend

[left hatch]

tbh profs make like 0 impact

[sweet summit]

ilvl on weap

[leaden dune]

I wasn’t sure on eng helm

[left hatch]

i like alch/herbing or alch/ench

[modern brook]

Engineer and Alch are to my knowledge only ones with combat effectiveness

[left hatch]

so you're self sufficient for consumables

[sweet summit]

im an engi alch guy myself

[modern brook]

between Brez and longer flasks

[leaden dune]

How good is enginhelm

[modern brook]

idt any prof gear slot is ~good~ better than raid/m+ alternatives

[sweet summit]

engi helm is very good

got DC and RNG

solid

[elder isle]

alchemy gets longer flasks?

[leaden dune]

English :p

[sweet summit]

yeah

[elder isle]

crazy i gotta get it

[left hatch]

i think you have to raid to get it at 475 though

[sweet summit]

double duration

[elder isle]

how far into the prof do u gotta go to do that

[left hatch]

like 90% sure the mats don't drop outside of it

[leaden dune]

Right okay so alch it is

[sweet summit]

you dont have to raid anymore, you get them everywhere iirc

[strong forum]

^

[left hatch]

oh really

[leaden dune]

Wait what

[left hatch]

hok nevermind

[elder isle]

u guys talkin about the void shatters or whatever?

[strong forum]

Yes

[elder isle]

u get em from everythin

i have 150 on my paladin atm and i have barely raided

[leaden dune]

I don’t know just max engi helm

[elder isle]

u get 1x per 2s win haha

[sweet summit]

Deafening Crash and haste/strength proc and Overwhelming power on the head

[leaden dune]

Oooo nice

[sweet summit]

its big

[leaden dune]

So engi helm is bis ?

[sweet summit]

no BoM, but very good

not bis, no

[left hatch]

nowhere close to bis

cause no BoM

[leaden dune]

Does m+ beat engi helm

[left hatch]

its biggest value is getting an early 475

[leaden dune]

M+ my focus

[left hatch]

theres much better from the residuum vendor

[leaden dune]

I mean does engi have anything else useful end game like belt buckle was

[sweet summit]

battle ress

[leaden dune]

If not I’ll go alch I guess

[sweet summit]

portable tmog machine

[leaden dune]

Ooo could be useful brez

[left hatch]

rocket boots for visions

[strong forum]

Engi helm is the best helm without bom

Let's put it like that ok

[left hatch]

the brez is a channel though

[sweet summit]

4 seconds

[left hatch]

so in practice its.... next to worthless if you're tanking

[leaden dune]

How many things best engi helm tho

[sweet summit]

but have saved a lot of keys

[leaden dune]

Thankyou

[sweet summit]

anything at equal ilvl with BoM, assuming you can have DC somewhere else

[elder isle]

how do u unlock double flask

[sweet summit]

learn rank 2 or 3 of that flask

[left hatch]

if its like legion jsut having the rank 1 flask recipe

gives it too you

[elder isle]

sick

[leaden dune]

Hmm so realistically engi helm is op for sometime

[sweet summit]

oh nvm

[leaden dune]

As the Titan residue waiting for specific piece

[elder isle]

i know engi helm is almost bis for glimmerdin but yea ppl here seem to say not good for tankin it seems

[left hatch]

not that its not good

its just not bis

3 helms from the vendor will be better

[leaden dune]

Is icy veins any good now

[sweet summit]

yeah

[leaden dune]

I’m interested in getting into prot sitting at 450 from fury

Just enchants etx

[sweet summit]

mwahi keeps IV up to date

[leaden dune]

Ah thankyou no idea who but sounds like must be good to know name

[sweet summit]

its an orange name

[left hatch]

yeh he a big brain

hes like at least 10% smarter than we'll ever be

[elder isle]

okay this is a weird question but i currently use Enchanting literally just for Disenchanting

do u think that the difference in gold gained from Access to Disenchanting over Scrapper < gold gained by doubling my flasks?

initially i think that yes it probably is better value

[leaden dune]

Thankyou guys

[elder isle]

so maybe i should get double flask

[left hatch]

uhhh

i disagree

i make a fuckload with enchanting

[leaden dune]

Depends on server I guess

Or realm

[sweet summit]

i love double flask, but i have no idea how much disenchanting makes

[left hatch]

because i have the fancy pants ench rod

so i sim in mats

[elder isle]

sim in mats?

[left hatch]

swim*

[elder isle]

whats the rod called i need it

my enchanting is level 25 lol

[left hatch]

Isen's enchanting rod i think

something like that

you hit 150 and do the questline

takes like an hour

and you get close to double the mats from disenchanting

[elder isle]

it looks like u dont even need Zandalari enchanting

[left hatch]

get purples from blues a ton, etc

[elder isle]

fuck dude holy sht ive wasted a lot of money not using this then

maybe its too late in the xpac to do somthing like this tho. maybe double flask is better idk

[tawny maple]

is it possible to keep up a decent amount of overwhelming trait or nah

[elder isle]

ugh so complicated

[left hatch]

we have like at least 6 months of BFA still

[sweet summit]

@tawny maple what do you mean?

[tawny maple]

@sweet summit the overwhelming power trait its not possible to keep up like a decent amount of stacks right

[left hatch]

it drops 2 per second

[sweet summit]

^

[left hatch]

but its still tied with our best middle ring trait

with UF

[sweet summit]

its one of, if not the best middle trait

[tawny maple]

yeah ive just been using UF just never tried using OP

the dps diff is probably marginal anyways huh

[left hatch]

depends on a lotta things

like what corruptions you're running and what the rest of your gear is

rn crit is highly valued for me cause im swimming in haste

[sweet summit]

youre swimming in a lot of things i see ;)

[left hatch]

i just like swimming ok ):

[chilly brook]

OP is worth it just from a defensive standpoint

[left hatch]

ehhhh

sometimes

like this week id argue stacking UF is the better defensive play

cause stupid crit levels removes necro as a mechanic

[chilly brook]

Theres more to the game than m+ 😛

[sweet summit]

no

[left hatch]

shhhhh no theres not

[sweet summit]

games dead

m+ is alive

[chilly brook]

What do I care though

I'm playing BrM

[tawny maple]

Oh yeah this question was for m(

[chilly brook]

Just dodge 4head

[left hatch]

its really feelycrafty which one is better

[chilly brook]

True though

[left hatch]

and unless you have a crit% or haste% corruption piece on

just pick w/e color you like more

[sweet summit]

OP, more haste for ineff procs 👀

[tawny maple]

Just seems like uf is brain dead option

[left hatch]

both are

[sweet summit]

cant really go wrong with either of them

[left hatch]

its just a passive buff thats sometimes up

[sweet summit]

toss a coin

[left hatch]

there isn't any big brain playstyle diff with OP either

[tawny maple]

Yeah Neve tried OP with prot so I figured I'd just ask

[south spruce]

How much haste should I aim for

[stark sage]

as much as possible without sacrificing ilvl

[daring marlin]

@sweet summit I was goofing around with two R2 IT on prot and it's a bit funny just slamming TC over and over.

To this day I haven't gotten a single TD on my Warrior. Feelsgoodman

Not even low ilvl shit lol

[elder isle]

same haha but its aite

ive got some good shit

[daring marlin]

I want the game to play for me ok

[sweet summit]

Did anyone say

[elder isle]

warrior tanks seem to have less HP than other tanks anyways XD

[sweet summit]

Ineffable ravager

[elder isle]

thats how i justify it to myself

[daring marlin]

lol

[sweet summit]

Monks have the lowesr hp pool

[daring marlin]

^this

[sweet summit]

Warrior is somewhere in the middle

[elder isle]

yea monks always look like big noob to me

[daring marlin]

[elder isle]

jeez i need twilight devastation too tho fuck

its probs so good for visions

[daring marlin]

I never go as prot for visions cuz of that

always arms

big dam

[elder isle]

i switched from arms to prot like 5 days ago

despite gearing up entirely as arms

and i am just doing visions as prot

because i cant be fucked respeccing my azerite all the time

luckily my two 480 pieces somehow are not only good ToM pieces but also great for prot so i got lucky but i cba changin em

i am Reliant on the Breathe Fire Potion i guess

[daring marlin]

I hate that shit

I barely grab it anymore

especially in SW

not so bad in org

The amount of times it's popped my gift early in SW has tilted me off the face of the planet

[lunar finch]

does anyone has a good bigwigs profile ? where i can see the really important bosscasts in the middle on my character etc ?

[daring marlin]

Just get the BW voice addon and have the weird robot lady voice call it out for you

xD

[elder isle]

shar naddow

[daring marlin]

PFFFT

[lunar finch]

xD dont want to get horny while bossfight

also im always playing with music on

[elder isle]

what else does she say thats funny

[lunar finch]

my music. not wow music

[daring marlin]

I feel it

[elder isle]

i think Shar Naddow is fucking stupid (shark tornado)

[still pagoda]

Weak Auras is great for this

JUST POPS RIGHT INTO YOUR FACE

[daring marlin]

giga wallop in workshop

[elder isle]

lol i havent done it yet

[daring marlin]

you're gonna be dying

with laughter

[elder isle]

i switched recently from DBM to BigWigs

im not really sure how i feel about em

they both kinda suck

[modern brook]

my favorite dbm fight is still the 2nd boss in the void dungeon from legion

[elder isle]

i cant believe the most-installed WoW addon plays a fucking max-volume airhorn sample for 3 seconds in its players ears and somehow maintains #1 status

[modern brook]

where with default settings its literally just 2-6 minutes of a man yelling beware at you

[daring marlin]

LOL

@elder isle YES

[elder isle]

which fight bullfango?

[sterile mantle]

Is CnS 2 worth replacing any of these esscences?

[elder isle]

void dungeon uhhhhh

[modern brook]

hang on

[elder isle]

vault of the wardens

eye guy

idk

darkheart thicket

[modern brook]

Saprish, from seat of triumvrant

[daring marlin]

oh fuck that noise

[elder isle]

fuck i barely remember that guy

[daring marlin]

we don't speak of that hellhole

:^)

[still pagoda]

Saprish, from seat of triumvrant

suka

[elder isle]

the only thing i remember about that dungeon is the little courtyard before the last house being hell in pugs

[still pagoda]

my PTSD senses are tingling

[elder isle]

and i dont even remember why

[modern brook]

the guys model isnt even on the wow head page for him LOL

its cause the route was random based on where the dude spawned

and u had to kill 3

[elder isle]

ah yea

[modern brook]

and sometimes invis guys would just love tap ur healer

that dungeon was a shit show

[elder isle]

haha i barely remember any of that

i didnt do that one much idk why

[modern brook]

cause no one did that one lol

Seat was a key killer

u just deleted it and got a new one

[elder isle]

i think legion dungeons were better than this xpac ones

[modern brook]

Its apples to oranges imo

[elder isle]

i miss darkheart thicket

[modern brook]

Legion had its own problems

[elder isle]

also why dont they remaster dungeons more why cant we do mythic + deadmines

[modern brook]

but i think BFA dungeons are standalone really good

i think all the baggage of being in bfa though is what kills them

[inland silo]

I did so much seat. Vault, court of stars, and seat were easily my favorite dungeons

[elder isle]

i hated pugging vault because of the eye boss

[still pagoda]

i think all the baggage of being in bfa though is what kills them

And a lot of bad decisions overall

[elder isle]

vault eye boss worst boss to pug in history of m+ maybe? at least in my experience

[modern brook]

I really liked vault of the warden

[still pagoda]

including 2 out of 4 seasonal affixes this addon

[lean arch]

which should i take on nzoth helm? need the dc

[modern brook]

I think it stood out to me as the dungeon with the most "look we can make this game interesting" mechanics

[strong forum]

Dc bom ele whirl moment

[sterile mantle]

BoM

[lean arch]

ty

[still pagoda]

Vault was great

[modern brook]

@still pagoda 3/4 you mean

[elder isle]

wow u have the same name as me basically karton wtf

[still pagoda]

i liked reaping

[modern brook]

Reaping was fun but fundemantally not good

[elder isle]

my rl name is carson

lmao

[still pagoda]

fun, fundamentally broken

Why not

[elder isle]

wtf

[modern brook]

it did nothing but exasperate the class disparity in Keys

[still pagoda]

frost mages were nuts back then tho

[modern brook]

and it got our clap nerfed

[still pagoda]

and i mained one

[modern brook]

i personally REALLY like obs

I dont think im in the minority either

[elder isle]

obs?

awakened?

[modern brook]

@lean arch if you have 0 bom; take the bom.

If you have bom <0 I'd still probably take bom tbh

[royal lodge]

I like the awakened affix also.

[modern brook]

but HoD probably also worth while

would really depend on your other pieces

[modern brook]

and yeah awakened hits that balance of "changing how your key is ran" and "stupid gimmick shit in the way of me timing this"

[still pagoda]

^

definitely

[modern brook]

without being as ignorable as reaping was

that looks fine to me tbh

[lean arch]

awaked makes mdi more interesting, too i think

adding 4 new mechanics to last boss

[still pagoda]

or shitton of skip gimmicks

[modern brook]

lol; are they really just ignoring the obs in MDI?

i havent watched it yet

[lean arch]

yea

from the ones ive seen

[modern brook]

Blizzard must be seething lol

which dungeons?

[still pagoda]

seriously?

[lean arch]

havent watched much of it, it was a 19/20 tyrranical workshop that i know for sure they did

[still pagoda]

or is it because 20's are easy for MDI guys by now?

[chilly brook]

I don't think blizz would be seething about teams ignoring the obs

Ion in his interview was talking about how Awakened is an example of the kiss/curse stuff that they want to do more of in m+

[still pagoda]

kiss/curse?

[chilly brook]

Things that are a boon but also a curse

[rocky linden]

Both a benefit and a challenge in itself

[chilly brook]

Aka obs allow you to skip but they pose a challenge

[still pagoda]

ah

ok

[chilly brook]

It promotes player agency

Personally I've been really enjoying this affix

[still pagoda]

just me being native Russian speaker and not still not knowing a lot of fixed expressions from English

[elder isle]

hey hold on a sec

Punish or Impending Victory for visions guys?

i think Punish right?

[chilly brook]

But part of that is allowing people to choose to ignore it and have an increased risk to possibly have a benefit

@elder isle ITF

Just pull big

[elder isle]

i aint got no allies tho

oh

its ally or enemy

LMAO

[still pagoda]

enemies are your allies

[chilly brook]

It scales on enemies too

[elder isle]

wow im dumb

[chilly brook]

Heal yourself by killing ez

[elder isle]

okay so then just change crackling thunder to bounding stride

thats it then i think

[still pagoda]

honestly. Those 2 days were the first time i've got a literal shitton of fun from BfA

10 months of break and switch back to tanking from ranged DPS make wonders

[modern brook]

I keep wanting to play RDPS

but there isnta single cool rdps

[rocky linden]

I love my BM a perverted amount

[still pagoda]

i played RDPS for most of BfA

on mythic PvE crab level

and honestly

[chilly brook]

BM hunter is actually really fun

[left hatch]

BM not stacking TD is such a foregin thing to me

[still pagoda]

it would be better if i stayed with tanking after legion

[chilly brook]

You're just a melee class at range

[lapis tapir]

fusion hacker any good for prot warriors?

[lean arch]

i play rdps for raid only. sucks dick anywhere else

and tanking is the opposite for me

raid tanking is zzz

[left hatch]

like stat corruptions being better than TD just

doesn't fucking compute

[still pagoda]

raid tanking is zzz

I would disagree

ToS and Antorus were really fun

as a tank

[chilly brook]

Raid tanking is great if you're parsing xD

[modern brook]

U must really enjoy pressing taunt and then waiting for your dps to fuck up mechanics from heroic then

[chilly brook]

It becomes zzzzzzzz after the 10th time of watching your DPS wipe the pull because they can't fix their mistakes

[left hatch]

^

just a waiting room for 4heads to learn the mechanics for 50 pulls

[still pagoda]

yea. Problems always come up

[left hatch]

at least 'most' dps classes have a more engaging rotation while you wait

[fossil sparrow]

doubt

[chilly brook]

Ret paladin would like a word

[left hatch]

most is the operative word

[chilly brook]

Lol

Ngl outlaw is fun af

Even if I reroll 3 times

[left hatch]

im ready for bones being a cd

[chilly brook]

Before having a good buff

It'll be nice

You'll still end up rerolling

[rocky linden]

3 times? youre luckier than me

[chilly brook]

Since the CD is reduced by restless blades

But its low cost anyways and no combo points wasted

[rocky linden]

Raid tanking was pretty fun in MoP 😄

[next goblet]

hmmmm how to prot war tank w/o a mouse on a laptop

i used to have a corsair scimitar

so i could bind certain keys to my mouse

i think ill be ok but i wont be doing hard content lol

[still pagoda]

i use only 2 side buttons

one for devastate

and one for on-use essence like CoF

seems fine to me

[next goblet]

i wont have any side buttons

[still pagoda]

but i'm newb by BfA standards

though i tanked Antorus mythic like this

[next goblet]

i was considered decent but life happened and im on laptop now not my desktop

im just trying to figure out where ill put key abilities..

[left hatch]

wait

how to play wow with a laptop trackpad?

you don't

[next goblet]

lol i have my mouse

but no side buttons

[left hatch]

oh i read no mouse

yah thats fine

[next goblet]

yeah i spoke wrong

meant to say no more side buttons

[left hatch]

QERTFGH keys

with shift and CTR binds as well for each

[next goblet]

im so used to moving with qweasd

[left hatch]

is more than enough keys

[next goblet]

well

lemme rephrase that

i like having those for movement keys when im being lazy and dont feel like mouse moving

[left hatch]

move with right click+wasd

and just remind AD to strafe

ez fix

[next goblet]

fair

actually i think i can figure it out.. and even get on my brm 😄

[stiff inlet]

The real gamer move is using ESDF for movement keys

[rocky linden]

@left hatch I did one LFR wing (to not fuck up for anyone else) with a wacom table last week. It was... interesting 🙂

[elder isle]

just got this from rexxar

er, vision

no good right

especially when i have this

[south spruce]

Is this trinket any good?

[rocky linden]

Yes. It most certainly is

[elder isle]

oh icy veins says echoing void is good?

i thought it was shit

i guess ill have to check it out

[rocky linden]

I meant the trinket

But EV isn't horrible. 60 corruption tho?

[elder isle]

yea exactly

pretty shit

especially over haste proc too

[left hatch]

uhhh

disagree

Ev isn't amazing

but id sim to see if its better than haste proc

its no TD but in ST its one of the better ones for us

[ivory barn]

You know EV is better when....

[lapis tapir]

this better than a weapon of same ilvl that has stats?

[left hatch]

ST yes

cleave maybe
aoe probably not

[maiden ravine]

you know, I'm glad we have good traits, poor blood dks

[lapis tapir]

+15s or better?

[left hatch]

sim it

[ivory barn]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tCYnYfV6NQ2ZmxAexnBB5a R7 EV and a R5 TD comparison my TD sim is 59k

Sorry it was lower rank TD but https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bNZTtNKmVCC5mescztPRaC

[south osprey]

what essences do yall run for 5 mask runs? warrior alts cloak is finally at a place where i can start pushing them

[ivory barn]

EV is not bad. It's just community received as horrible

[left hatch]

^

[south osprey]

not sure whether crucible major or vision major is the play here

[left hatch]

but those sims are also ST

and it falls far behind TD in aoe

[rocky linden]

I've always switched to fury for the visions

[left hatch]

CoF major, CnS, null and str of warden or vop

for visions

[south osprey]

i cant stand DPS in 5 mask shit hits too hard

[ivory barn]

I'm tanking boss always normally so I sim ST

[left hatch]

oh yeh for raid

my vDH uses a EV set too for raid

[hallow phoenix]

EV has a better DPS/rating than TD typically

In single target

[left hatch]

only thing better in ST i think is GW

[hallow phoenix]

IS

[left hatch]

realistic circumstances only thing better*

[hallow phoenix]

Just get lucky

Ez

[left hatch]

lul that

and even then its only better on.. half the fights?

wrathion, maut, xanesh, doge, and raden reliably