and Mem generates more rage for me if im taking a lot more damage
#protection
ivory barn
sweet summit
I cant see lucid being worth in a raid setting. What fight were you taking too much damage on? Just xanesh?
ivory barn
been all of em,
royal rune
How does avatar make you tanky?
sweet summit
BoM
languid light
The main reason to have Lucid major is to have 2 Avatar back to back, and it doesnt look like you have, so you're kinda wasting it there, should definetely go for VoP
ivory barn
mostly Wrathion's Searing Breath and Shadhars swaps and Hiveminds ravager
royal rune
Ahh yes!
sweet summit
Thats normal, ask for an external and youll be fine
BoM makes avatar a crit block machine @royal rune
Oh and constant IP spam
ivory barn
sooo, other than VoP major what would you swap minors to.. I have Null/Lucid/Warden now
sweet summit
Consider CnS
amber siren
i mean if youre taking damage from specific timed events e.g. breaths, shadhar dissolves wouldnt just using AUG be better?
sweet summit
Very good point rybie
ivory barn
Gift? that would have to be timed perfectly no?
sweet summit
Id swap warden for void in raids
Ye you gotta time it, its on the gcd too
Only fight i could see myself using aug is ilgy tbh
Externals should help you enough on all other fights
ivory barn
this is me currently, Corruptions = to rank 2 Exped, Rank 3 TD
sweet summit
Looks good, id take cof major and vop minor for ST fights tho. More dam
ivory barn
put VoP in place of Mem?
amber siren
you can use defensive trinkets as well if you have any if externals are a problem
e.g. psychic shell has a pretty short 1 min cd
ivory barn
I have Warden
sweet summit
The maut one?
ivory barn
yah
sweet summit
Meh
amber siren
the maut one is pretty average since the cd is very long
ivory barn
so for an opener, ive been doing it wrong then.... (potion/Avatar),Intervene,Clap,SS,Clap,(defensive),clap
sweet summit
SS>TC on st
You should have enough rage after avatar+charge to sb as you get to the boss if youre starting
ivory barn
so with Avatar, if you run Davastator and the SS procs when you are supposed to Tclap, you SS and not Tclap?
sweet summit
SS is both more damage(on ST) and more rage
Yes, even during avatar
Been like that ever since the damn nerf after s2 
sterile mantle
how much is 3xBoM 3xDC in M+....really any use at all (saw it on a guide, just curious)
sweet summit
You dont want 3x dc, only 1x dc
sterile mantle
thats what i tought
undone sun
which guide 🤔
sweet summit
What guide
sweet summit
Use the icy veins guide please
Mwahi keeps that one up to date
Not a big fan of methods "guides"
sterile mantle
ya thats wht ive been doing...just had read these and wanted to make sure i didnt overlook something
sweet summit
sweet summit
Bs poop
left hatch
id literally take almost any other generic trait in the game over it
and the only one i can think of i wouldn't is ruinous bolt cause it pulls extra trash
sweet summit
It only damages things youre already in combat with tho?
left hatch
apparenlty not
sweet summit
Ahaha what
left hatch
iv heard horror stories of it going awry
sterile mantle
@amber siren i do use Crackling tunder in M+ lol
left hatch
esp in atal
sweet summit
Thats a yike
left hatch
eh its OK in terms of QoL but
once you get used to reduced radius
bounding has much much more utility
sweet summit
Safeguard is pretty good too
left hatch
i swapped off it this season and it took all of 1 dungeon to adapt
and havn't looked back
maiden ravine
about to go to bed then you notice all the expulsom WQs
amber siren
i dont think ive changed off safeguard for the expac
sweet summit
^^
ionic fern
What's wrong with the Marcelian guide ? 🤔
he says it(DC) increases your AoE damage but it's not feasible due to better options out there.
sterile mantle
Im not saying antything wrong. just asking if i had missed something
left hatch
oh i had more issue with the traits section
sterile mantle
I try to stay up to date on Prot stuff
left hatch
advocating a 3 stack of DC
ionic fern
He came to me with this guide and i overlooked it.
left hatch
and saying bloodsport is good
left hatch
ionic fern
And regarding Crackling Thunder - he also says to use Bounding Stride giving a varied choice.
Oh, i'm talking about Marcelions video guide
Idk about the Method one.
😂
left hatch
yah its the method guide im super skeptical about
sterile mantle
I just hadnt seen the 3 DCs for M+ before
left hatch
it was a thing in S2
because it fucking pumped
but when they nerfed the 100% TC increase in avatar window
sweet summit
It was HUGE DAM with pre UF nerf and reaping
left hatch
it kinda nerfed that build as well
to the point where the big stat increse traits like HoD, CH, or MS are just more consistent choices that also have a very hefty survivability component
amber siren
my issue with choosing crackling thunder is that it's listed as the 'alternative' to bounding in the video
not even a glance over safeguard at all
left hatch
tbf safeguard is a high(ish) skillcap thing with relatively niche need in keys
theres a lot of tanks that don't even intercept their cotank on cd in raid for free rage
asking ppl to intercept squish party members on burst mechanics is a big brain thing
and not needed at all till you get to high keys
amber siren
yeah true
maybe im just fussy
idk i dont like the idea of making things black and white in these beginner guides, like i get that its harder to pull off but thats just setting up new tanks to not understand their toolkit
left hatch
i can see both sides, at the same time it can be hella overwhelming to just dump all these nuanced things
on ppl that are brand new to the spec
rocky linden
If you make it too detailed then it suddenly isn't a guide anymore, and just as confusing as telling people "figure it out"
left hatch
i wish more guides would just say that its a starting point for new players
and direct them to the class discord (or w/e discord or source is affiliated with the guide)
sweet summit
Morrison, make a guide 
left hatch
i can't handle that level of responsibility D:
i get shit wrong at least once a month
rocky linden
I think the people who are interested in improving will understand that. And the people who don't care, you just can't do much about. Maybe I'm just cynical though.
ionic fern
That video guide was specifically for "beginners".
I did write this regarding Safeguard in the topic:
"Safe Guard can also be used as a extra external on someone if they need it since it works like a paladins Protection of Sacrifice, for example on your co-tank before a big nuke in raids.
"
amber siren
ionic fern
There's ton of uses for it but they are very situational as said above.
amber siren
Yeah I can agree with that
sick sentinel
I always use crackling
ionic fern
Imagine being rich enough to be able to buy tomes to change talents outside of cities 😦
sweet summit
Doesnt IV pay you in ingame gold smh
undone sun
🤣
maiden ravine
Tomes aren't that expensive to make are they?
I just never bother making them
I have a ton of left over legion mats.
graceful cobalt
hey how good is void ritual for us as Tank. i have get 475 hands with all sec stats up to 33
sweet summit
VR is good. Not TD, but not avoidance either
Just depends on what else you have available and how much you can fit into your budget
queen glade
Im currently Running 55 corruption below 16s
XD
Works untill You get thing from beond in a big pull aXd
sweet summit
Just reflect it
queen glade
You reflect has a CD
Specaily in underrot first part
Reflect thing from beond or blood bolt
Blood bolt any day
amber siren
queen glade
Specaily on tyrannical XD
sweet summit
You dont take damage on 1st buss UR, so tfb is ookook there
queen glade
Yea
sweet summit
Unless you have lowkey scuffed comp
queen glade
But main issue is like razen bleed a raptor and thing from beond if you dont have reflect or pepega out XD
That shit HURTS
sweet summit
Cloak/stun tbf
queen glade
You dont always have cloak
sweet summit
But you most likely have storm bolt off cd on a boss fight
sweet summit
O.o
queen glade
Or not always
queen glade
I like rumbling earth sometimes
But in push keys out side of siege yea SB
But in push keys I dont go over 40 corruption
alpine stag
Hi, Lingering Sporepods any use for M+ or is it crap?
alpine stag
good to know
maiden ravine
Unless it's arms pvp
sweet summit
It got nuked in pvp
maiden ravine
Ah, forget that then
mental crystal
hi guys
im new here as tank, wanna learn for shadowlands!
there is a list or something for items in Mythic that i need?
sweet summit
Go for ilvl
Trinkets can be like vita/rezan/block/lps
solid crystal
is it worth stacking a 2nd Iron Fortress or a 2nd Brace? i have to pick one
for M+
sweet summit
Ya
solid crystal
thanks bro
limpid edge
Skittish week without any twilight devastation, how fucked i am?
mortal brook
meh, TC np
autumn pendant
👢 🍵 👏
sweet summit
🍑 👏
ebon hound
feet soup hands
slim pier
feet soup prayer
fleet cedar
Hi guys, can anyone elaborate why prot warriors use Conflict and Strive as a major essence in M+? I don't understand why it's favored over other major essences in the highest tier of players.
barren torrent
Mwahi did a really good doc in pinned messages about different essences uses. CnS Major can be good defensively in high keys where there is a lot of magic damages or bleeds for the extra Versatility
fleet cedar
I overlooked that pin. I'll read up :). Thanks a bunch!
autumn pendant
@ionic fern good boy
warm plinth
ilevel
formal meadow
which traits?
warm plinth
DC/IF/UF/RP
last mason
Would you guys use block and vial or block and jar
sick sentinel
What content
left hatch
vial probably pumps more if you're using it properly
but its also annoying af to micromanage
sick sentinel
I’d prob use block and jar because that’s a brain dead set up
last mason
M+
left hatch
while jar is just passive
left hatch
yeh TD
stiff oracle
Is Brace for Impact actually worthwhile?
chilly brook
Anyone know much about standing desks? Looking at one that's like $368 just don't know if it's a good price
@stiff oracle yes
Why wouldn't it be
stiff oracle
wasn't sure how much the 737 block actually did
chilly brook
A lot
sweet summit
gives a decent amount of DR
chilly brook
@faint walrus SHW it's on amazon
stiff oracle
ooh, yeah thats quite a bit tbh
stiff oracle
aye
faint walrus
thats overpriced i think
chilly brook
So any increase to block is nice because it scales fairly well
faint walrus
its supposed to be under 250 i beleive.
according to people's post
err reviews*
on principle I wouldn't pay it but its not a BAD price per se.
chilly brook
Finding an electric desk under 300 is not something I've been able to do
I wouldn't be opposed to a manual one but most of them have the crank on the right side and I feel like that could get in the way of my arm when playing FPS
chilly brook
Tbh all I want is just to be able to make the desk short enough for my arms to rest properly for aiming
lapis sonnet
If you stack multiple TD corruptions, they don't proc more often do they? Just get more % worth of dmg?
amber siren
yep
lapis sonnet
Time to keep hunting for more TD then, have a single rank 2
mighty osprey
lapis sonnet
Need to get a proper log of a m+ and figure out hours to up my dps more. Listening to you all saying at ilvl 470 without corruption should be doing 50k dps overall is causing me to go insane figuring out what I’m doing wrong.
balmy anvil
`
sick sentinel
A lot of your damage with and without corruption is going to come from pull sizes
lapis sonnet
That makes sense, I know on some pulls im in the 60-80k+ range and then others not so hot because I didn't pull as much. Time to learn to pull more
sick sentinel
Pulling big around your groups cool downs will naturally make your dps go up
chilly brook
And dont sit on your cooldowns
tame garden
DEF
vestal island
Nice
sweet summit
GHI
sick sentinel
JKL
sweet summit
MNO
sick sentinel
PQR
sweet summit
STU
edgy abyss
wxyz
sweet summit
æøå
exotic spoke
You missed “V”
edgy abyss
i know
sweet summit
ill give you the V later ;)
exotic spoke
Giggity
edgy abyss
wow
sweet summit
😳
edgy abyss
kinda gay ngl
exotic spoke
So?
edgy abyss
he said the same to me Riki don't believe him
sick sentinel
Yeah so
sweet summit
who are you @edgy abyss
edgy abyss
your Owner
sick sentinel
What are you afraid of love
sweet summit
nice
strong forum
If you can fit the weapon into your corruption budget, you can use it
sterile mantle
i know stats are decent
olive merlin
Are there specific stats to shoot for or is highest ilvl still the way to go? Im trying to decide if I want to gem/enchat for verse to get to about 10-12%
strong forum
Stats are great, the corruption itself isn't amazing though, you have to actively play around it to make it better than EV for example
ilvl > haste > crit for m+
chilly brook
@faint walrus how about this? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07LCPQS15/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_ZbjMEb6Z9J79S
strong forum
ilvl > haste > vers for raid
Vers only becomes more desirable than crit at 23+ keys
ivory barn
If you only have CnS rank1 and can't pvp well, whTs another alternative to go in that slot? Lucid
strong forum
Lucid/sphere/aegis
I'd highly recommend getting cns r3 though, it's the single strongest minor essence in the game
ivory barn
I'd need to be carried to 1600 :(
olive merlin
21, 43 (w/itf), 35, 9 are my current stats. I can prob but my ilvl back up to 476 but then im just super mastery stacked
strong forum
You can do it at 1400 too, but 1600 shouldn't be too hard to get tbh
Get more haste then, im at 59% with itf
Unless you're doing 23+ keys you can safely stack the fuck out of haste
And even in 23+ its not gonna be bad
Haste is never bad to stack
chilly brook
@ivory barn 1400 then cap conquest through invasions
Never have to do pvp again after getting 1400
And you dont lose elo before 1400
olive merlin
that and my only TD is on a 445 piece >.<
strong forum
Happens
sterile mantle
someone wana do Arenas with me so i can get CnS
strong forum
I'm using a 420 TD3 belt on my VDH
olive merlin
yeah these are 445 legs
strong forum
It do be like that
strong forum
420 🔥 💯
sick sentinel
Step one: log into bfa
strong forum
Step two: realise you don't have shadowlands
Step three: uninstall bfa
sick sentinel
Step two: complete first +17
Step three: get TD2 seal of questionable loyalties from box week 1
Step 4: get TD2 from box next week as well
Profit
olive merlin
alright.. couple ring changes and im up to 52% haste with itf
sweet summit
not enough 
olive merlin
18, 52, 28, 9
sweet summit
sick sentinel
Haste gang
tame garden
chrome palm
is anyone planning on not rolling prot in shadowlands? At least in the first patch?
it looks like it's nerfed pretty bad
sweet summit
how do you know that
modern brook
alpha is out
also all questions regarding alpha will be answered with "its alpha, making judgements now is pretty pointless"
chrome palm
didnt that statement lose it's reliability with BFA?
undone sun
way too early to base your main on
sweet summit
if you only care about performance, yes
chrome palm
that was the excuse going all the way up to less than a month from launch BFA
undone sun
wasn't an excuse
sweet summit
you can get a feel of how a spec plays now
chrome palm
"you"
amber siren
class feel can be judged, numbers cant
bfa was also very off since azerite traits were added very late into the beta cycle
chrome palm
i'm referring to much of the GCD changes as well
criticism was met with the same "it's alpha" answer
and they never reverted things like IP until much later
the sloot interview from last week also had ion explaining that no major class changes are expected from what is in there now
amber siren
well end of beta is release
chrome palm
right
tame garden
Blizzard claims that feedback will be iterated on more this time around
modern brook
I mean go wild then dude; dont roll prot because it looks bad months before the game comes otu
chrome palm
hmm
amber siren
i think its a fair criticism to say something isnt fun in its current state, even in alpha
chrome palm
yeah my intent wasnt to come to a conclusion about prot. I'm genuinely curious
a lot more knowledge in this channel than i personally have
wanted to get a litmus test of people's thoughts
given that they are informed
stark sage
we have channels specifically for the alpha #698541559049748520 #696840315117502515
chilly brook
The best we can do is to offer feedback and wait and see
chrome palm
is the feedback supposed to happen via the official forums?
or only within the alpha client?
tame garden
There are feedback threads
stark sage
both, but i'm sure they'll take feedback from the client more seriously
undone sun
as well as alpha forums
left hatch
from the ppl that actually played prot including sloot on alpha
prot is fine.
its still solid as fuck defensive wise
chrome palm
preach just came out with a video that contradicts this
left hatch
the "nerfs" are just people reeing because the meta tclap spam build is now dead
sweet summit
preach is a very bad prot warrior
left hatch
huh preach.... someone who doesn't main or even specialize in tanks
chrome palm
it's not just tclap
chrome palm
it's anger management removing last stand and demo shout
left hatch
which has very little impact on survivability
chrome palm
also not having bastion of might anymore is losing a lot
chrome palm
resetting the cooldown of LS has little impact?
left hatch
full stop
chrome palm
idk about all that
left hatch
well have more small gaps with block uptime
chrome palm
if the problem was DPS, why did they specifically nerf surviveability?
left hatch
they didn't significantly.
chrome palm
you're going to have more places where you've only got IP
left hatch
small gaps in our block is not game changing
sweet summit
its more just "you have to kite earlier in m+"
modern brook
i mean we also dont know how damage spread wil llook in shadowlands
chrome palm
lol how is that not a nerf to survivability again?
modern brook
ie: legion required dps cheat deaths
sweet summit
also true
left hatch
we only have the test dungeon
which prot has been considered one of, if not the most solid tank for
rn
defensively
sweet summit
defo
left hatch
losing bastion will suck but everyone is losing a pretty solid chunk of power from essenses or traits
its not a dead spec
and getting on the whiny bandwagon of "MAH CLASS IS DEAD"
especially this early
is silly
sweet summit
@chrome palm a nerf sure, not a gamechanging you will die way faster thing. requires more skill i guess?
chrome palm
what's the difference between getting whiny, and asking about potential nerfs?
undone sun
how it's phrased
stark sage
every spec will feel weaker at the start of an xpac compared to the final patch of the previous one
we've essentially reached peak power and we cant have linear progression forever
left hatch
= whining
"hey i have some concerns with the talents, is this going to hit us as badly as i perceive it" = asking
chrome palm
for instance. Let's say that they received criticism about the Anger Management nerf - and they revert them. How would you undo your comment about them not being less survivable?
like how would you justify them reverting the change?
chrome palm
yeah, given that the consensus seems to be that this nerf is minor
mortal brook
there's feedback, then theres whinging 🤷 mostly depends on medium
left hatch
then its reverting a minor nerf
chrome palm
alright
left hatch
why do revisions need to be entirely gamechanging to be warrented lmfao
chrome palm
it seems like this is a touchy subject
left hatch
just too many people bitching when they havn't even tried the spec
if you think its too much of a nerf
do'nt play prot
chrome palm
relax
undone sun
first of all, it's not even the right place of discussion, secondly you came in with the first thing talking about rerolling because of alpha
chrome palm
look people are getting fired up so i'm dropping it
sweet summit
chilly brook
My main issue with prot changes is it just seems like they're making changes based off of the popularity of the spec for 2 patches compared to other tanks having much longer periods of popularity and the things they're trying to change honestly weren't broken
But that's just me
left hatch
^ its 100% in response to the meta tclap spam build
the changes are to break that
which sucks but
chrome palm
and that's the lucid major thing?
left hatch
no
that our talent build rn
the synergy of ITF, BV etc
that make our aoe so stronk
and while yes the AM nerf is a thing
realistically it wont have a drastic impact until HIGH keys
which tbf every tank has changes that make things come apart at the seems
when considering high content
chilly brook
And we have less mob control than practically every other tank and have less utility so I feel like our higher dps was ok and it wasn't even so far ahead that it was unbalanced
left hatch
which will likely be balanced around or addressed with covenent shit/ legendaries
chrome palm
maybe there is some soulbind that increases your rage generation by a shit ton. and they will expect you to have tons of rage for IP
mortal brook
plenty of more content info to release still for sure
left hatch
exactly
as things are rn
coming from people that actually main tanks
prot is in a good spot
left hatch
survivabilty wise, and understanding its early alpha
its less fun, and less spammy
but we aint paper
chrome palm
someone mentioned sloot talking about prot? is that on his youtube channel?
left hatch
he was talking about it on his stream earlier
cause someone in chat was complaining about how gutted prot is
and he went off on them
mortal brook
sloots gone throw nearly every spec at this point
left hatch
the TLDR of his rant is that the biggest nerf is to the dps and its a kinda 'necesary' change since its been the meta build for 3/4's of an xpac
left hatch
and hes done 5+ runs of each tank in the dungeon and warrior felt like one of, if not the beefiest
undone sun
go through sloots videos, he has the alphas listed by days
that doc shows when he plays the specs
chrome palm
did you make this?
left hatch
he made it
undone sun
no
left hatch
or one of his mods
chrome palm
alright appreciate it
also didn't mean to stir something up with my first comment. I can see how it could be interpreted as whining
i'll keep that in mind
left hatch
well how its phrased plus its just a really really common issue
chilly brook
@left hatch I mean I dont agree with Sloot on that it hasn't been the meta build for 3/4 of the xpac, it was arguably only THE meta for one season of m+
chrome palm
i actually really get a lot of benefit from this channel
left hatch
when 90% of hte time its from ppl that REEEEEing because our dps is gonna suffer
chrome palm
yeah i can see that
chrome palm
trell was talking about some build where you TC every single global
wicked hazel
Hey folks, still gearing up. Is there a feeling on how much iLVL getting both Crash and Bastion on a piece is worth?
chrome palm
yeah that was it
sweet summit
but not TD
tame garden
sweet summit
y e s
sweet summit
@wicked hazel CD is like 15, BoM is like 0
chilly brook
@left hatch I suppose I was talking more about tank meta not talent meta
left hatch
yeh im talking talent meta
chilly brook
But even then I dont see that as a problem
left hatch
or he was rather
warm plinth
It's only for the FIRST DC, not all DC
If it's your only DC, it's worth dropping 15 ilevel
left hatch
yeh i like that better as well
tame garden
S2 was a problem
wicked hazel
Cool, yeah. It's my first right now so I'll take the HP hit. Thanks!
chilly brook
Cuz we're just going to have the same issue in SL if you just shuffle it around instead of making better talents
left hatch
its always a better solution to have more options, rather than put the good options on the same row
stark sage
@chilly brook its also about opening up the design space, it might not be feasible to buff a dead talent to compete with the meta build without breaking it
like imagine how strong ravager would have to be to unseat the AM build
chrome palm
i think maybe a lot of people reeeeing is that prot is actually legitimately fun to play right now
and specs like bear just arent
stark sage
then suddenly prot is just a ravager button
left hatch
tbh the playstyle will still be roughly the same
chrome palm
and they dont want to play bear or some other boring ass tank
chilly brook
Imagine continuing to have ravager after 3 expansions of it not being used
tame garden
How dare you
left hatch
just won't pump as much
stark sage
that's a bigger problem for sure
chilly brook
Either make it baseline or replace it
sweet summit
ineffable ravager is a dream of mine, dont shittalk it
chilly brook
And a lot of the talent problems could be solved by making the "meta" baseline
Like AM
chrome palm
preach was using ravenger in his video btw, lmao
chilly brook
Bolster as well
chrome palm
instead of AM
south lantern
How the hell do you guys beat Alleria on 5 mask?
chrome palm
yeah bolster baseline is super needed
tame garden
It's just a slow process
You can last a very long time if you're doing the mechanics
left hatch
in case of emergency use the ooga booga spawn to proc Gift
and ignore mechanics for 20s
south lantern
I see.. so you just take it really slow
left hatch
CoF is also really nice in general for visions
warm plinth
Nothing in 5 mask visions is really about speed tbh
Like there's a couple bosses that it's nice to kill fast
mortal brook
except any area you can mass pull on 😄
left hatch
and cyclotronic
warm plinth
But Alleria isn't really one fo them
of*
Since you kinda can't, since she trolls the shit out of you
chrome palm
maybe they plan on having really interesting/powerful tank trinkets or something. Or a lot of the stuff that people see as going away will come from tier sets
warm plinth
You just want to bide your time and take your hits when you can on her. Don't get greedy and end up taking a ton of sanity damage
left hatch
remember we have legendaries coming back too
chrome palm
right
tame garden
Ye getting impatient is how you die on alleria
left hatch
with hopefully interseting effects
chrome palm
from torghast
left hatch
and not just zzz damage procs
chilly brook
Legendaries coming back aren't a good reason for making a class play worse :]
chrome palm
someone was calling torghast "vertical islands" on dratnos' podcast lmao
if they are islands i think everyone will be miserable
chilly brook
The post on the islands sounded good tbh
left hatch
im hoping they're more in line with visions
chilly brook
Errr torghast
mortal brook
solo islands sound fine
left hatch
but with less annoying shit to do as an entry requirement
left hatch
i think ion mentioned that with his interview with sloot
chilly brook
No one really knows though how accessing it will work/how often you can do them
left hatch
about ideas they're tossing around for limited entries
chilly brook
But from what it sounds like just dont die and you're gucci
left hatch
its supposedly goign live on alpha later today too
and more interviews tomorrow
so well have a better picture
warm plinth
I'm fine with limited rewards but I'd prefer being able to do them whenever I want
chrome palm
i hope they make smarter affixes than the visions too. It seems like the meeting for the madnesses in visions was like "hey what are all the ways you can lose control of your character? Yeah let's use all those"
chilly brook
For m+ I'd honestly like to see them retire some of the affixes
left hatch
yeh id be ok with limited rewards as well
chrome palm
gevious
mortal brook
so far all the modifiers are crazy buffs. looks good lol
left hatch
im ok with grevious
id love to ditch bolstering/bursting
anything that prevents chain pulling feels awful
sweet summit
bursting is fine, bolstering can die
chrome palm
also i remember dratnos suggesting that tyrannical and fortified are kind of not needed. Just balance the trash and bosses how you want them
mortal brook
i'd take a hard rework of affixes to be risk-reward
chrome palm
and let the key level scale
left hatch
yeh i read that article
left hatch
was also saying that shit like bolstering just artifically padded the dungeon timer
didn't really make it harder
chrome palm
like bolstering the club ogre in freehold
left hatch
outside of mismatched packs that have non elites with beefy bois
chrome palm
or the matron in waycrest
warm plinth
Well, that's the thing is you're required to pull shit separately
mortal brook
or fort workshop. like wtf
warm plinth
Or well
The average person is
Obviously in a group you can coordinate what you're killing a little better
mortal brook
like this shit is neat lol
left hatch
i also hope they stick to affix design similar to reaping or even better, awakened
mortal brook
torghast should be reasonably fun lol
chrome palm
it just seems like they take all the things about M+ that we insanely fun in Legion and are slowly stopping you from being able to do them
left hatch
and not the tedious ghuunies
sweet summit
i cant jump?!?
chilly brook
I feel like Tyrannical was really interesting in legion but just bad in BFA
mortal brook
not so fast!
chilly brook
Am I the only one?
chrome palm
awakened is such a smart way to fix the rogue requirement. I dont see how they ever make anything better
sweet summit
BIG!
warm plinth
That's one of the buff things you can get in Torghast
tame garden
Dh will be so overpowered
warm plinth
I feel like Tyrannical was arguably worse in Legion
mortal brook
right. the mods for torghast seem to be more reward than risk. which is always better time
left hatch
it no longer serves its purpose though.... in legion it was made to have a hefty jump from low content to the highest tier of rewards
and that design philosophy no longer really applies
since its on 2's now
chilly brook
Idk it felt like it lended itself better to Legion boss design
chilly brook
But fortified is absolutely aids with BFA trash design
mortal brook
in before 'we liked vision affixes so much that's the new m+ content. enjoy!~'
chrome palm
tyranical doesnt make it any more interesting really. It's just changing when you lust
mortal brook
tank gets split personality. everyone dies
chilly brook
@chrome palm in legion tyrannical influenced a lot because you could actually change your gear and some bosses required different setups
chrome palm
like can they really design the dungeons around it?
mortal brook
give fuckin hunters shroud. ez
left hatch
in the first dungeon theres only one shroudable place
chrome palm
hmm
left hatch
and they might just do trash % to work around it
mortal brook
but only survival hunters. also buff survival by like 200%
left hatch
so if you skip you have to do more trash in the first courtyard
mortal brook
for the memes
chrome palm
would anyone be actually mad if they just kept awakened?
i've never had more fun in M+ this xpac
mortal brook
awakened is good affix. risk reward, enables movement, good shit
left hatch
i feel like itd get stale
left hatch
they just need to lean into the risk/reward and player agency factor of it
chrome palm
what if they gave healers like a mini shroud
idk, some kind of support spell?
or make it an engineering item
mortal brook
a shroud button on the m+ ui
chrome palm
in diablo they have the zDPS builds
mortal brook
ez
left hatch
eh i don't think giving more ppl shroud is the answer
chrome palm
like support characters that have shitload of utility
left hatch
its developing dungeons so skips are less doable or less incentivized
chrome palm
like workshop
mortal brook
I dont think wow would handle supporters well
chrome palm
workshop shroud doesnt do shit with awakened
chilly brook
It would be interesting to see some more wacky affixes tbh
mortal brook
but hey, windfury totems coming back and i'm gonna have a pet shaman
chrome palm
an affix where the deungeon stays the same but all the characters are nude
sweet summit
mortal brook
I would love for all affixes to be wacky buffs instead of wacky detriments
and just like, scale the dungeon better
chilly brook
Imagine an affix that gave you an on use stance that you were locked into for say at least 10 seconds but can come out at anytime but it gives you a large throughput benefit at the expense of not being able to receive healing from any source
left hatch
i like the kiss/curse thign they keep talking about wanting to do
cycles empowering/lowering phys vs magic damage by 20% for the entire run
by like 30s increments
would lead to some good on the fly choices of 'oh we gotta wait for magic empowerment window to lust cause we got 2 boomies and an ele shaman'
and also increases add damage of that type as well
chrome palm
like the convention of elements ring in diablo 3
chilly brook
M+ is the best when things are in your control and predictable
chrome palm
ah
mortal brook
turn quaking into 'jumping causes you to deal damage to enemies and allies around you in a 8 yard radius'
boom, fun affix
esp with 5 melee
chilly brook
That would actually be hilarious
left hatch
id fuck my group over so hard
chrome palm
lmao
left hatch
cause i idly hit spacebar as i play
left hatch
i stun myself 5-6 times during the council fight every time the bartender debuff is on lol
chilly brook
I think it would be interesting to see an affix that gave you portals at the start that allowed you to port directly to your boss of choice and that would be your start point of the dungeon
At least for less structured dungeons
mortal brook
could do lots of neat things. instead its just straight punishment affixes
bolstering isnt feelsgood. esp in shit places like siege
chilly brook
Yea I'd like to see the move away from the hey this is a bad thing
And more hey heres something cool
mortal brook
which it looks like they're doing at first glance with anima powers in torghast. so that's promising
chilly brook
I'd also like to see just once
A seasonal affix that interacts with each class differently
mortal brook
like full on nefarian?
chilly brook
I'm not familiar
mortal brook
nefarion in blackwing lair had class-specific debuffs throughout the fight
sick sentinel
A classic mind boggle
mortal brook
but like, some were absolute dogshit
druids were forced into cat form
hunters had their weapons broken
sick sentinel
As with everything in wow, some things dogshit
mortal brook
meanwhile, warrs forced into zerker stance lol
locks would summon infernals
rogues were just ported and rooted tho and could break that root
horribly imbalanced lol
chilly brook
Nah I mean more like lean into the class fantasy for each class
sick sentinel
Warrior: spin
chilly brook
Like pally is getting holy power back so we could have each holy power spent heal the group for x amount regardless of spec
Just flavorful stuff that might introduce more less desirable classes into the fold for that season
chilly brook
Locks could have a chance per soul shard spent to proc an enhanced curse on the target or all targets in combat
mortal brook
be reallllllllly hard to balance tho
chilly brook
Sure but that's the point
sick sentinel
You want blizzard to do a worse job at something they are already bad at
chilly brook
Sometimes balance can take a back seat in something like m+
mortal brook
the sheep swarm will hop on whatever the streamers say is meta man. itll cubbyhole too much
chilly brook
And it can be used to help bring some classes that have historically been bad in a m+ environment to be desirable
But that's just my pipe dream of cool stuff blizz could attempt
Not arguing that it would even be good
mortal brook
not that it isnt like that already
sick sentinel
I want an affix that randomly teleports me to a position in the dungeon
chrome palm
man they definitely are going to balance the covenant abilities
chilly brook
Fighting a big group
chrome palm
no problem
chilly brook
Get teleported
chrome palm
they are so good at balancing classes anyway
sweet summit
nah, the teleport will put you out of combat ;)
mortal brook
put a far sight totem at the start, set the port. ez
put another totem after each boss
sick sentinel
Change the metaaaaa
mortal brook
granted. prot warrs nerfed
sweet summit
notlikethis
sweet summit
earth ele
sick sentinel
Hey I was an enhanced tank way back when in vanilla
chilly brook
Where your role randomly changes
sick sentinel
Sorry, BC
sweet summit
what if enchance could mount the elemental like a fucking robot
tame garden
Ok boomer
sweet summit
woa
sick sentinel
I wielded a Th axe and absolutely crushed shadow fang keep
chilly brook
One DPS gets more hp and armor at random and is the tank
chilly brook
Another dps suddenly has to heal by doing their rotation
mortal brook
way of the crane the whole dungeon
sweet summit
sick sentinel
An affix where each player enters a different realm and has to win 1v1 vs miniboss would be cool
mortal brook
actually
last mason
People would fail that miserably
mortal brook
there's a fight to the death thing in one of the dungeons
last mason
Casuals would complain
sweet summit
i kinda hope tanks and healers are immune to that 1v1, but also i hope they arent
chilly brook
Good
warm plinth
Ya know
I don't have a lot of pet peeves where WoW is concerned
But "enchance" is one of them
mortal brook
like rppm?
warm plinth
No, like people calling Enhancement Shamans, Enchancement
sweet summit
idk how to spell, im sorry :(
mortal brook
who else would you take to mystic raiding, if not enchancement shammans
tame garden
Pinky problems
warm plinth
I mean, I'm not upset or anything. It's just a pet peeve lol
You're not the only person who does it
sweet summit
i say enhance, but i misspelled :((
mortal brook
Rouges are overpowdered
tame garden
mortal brook
oh sloot is playtesting torghast
elder isle
ive been arms for like 2 months, and im slowly transitioning into playing prot. ive got a good gear setup and learned how to play, tanked a few M12s ish, im at 470
im about to reroll all my azerite to Prot (i have some 480s from Arms)
will i have more or less difficulty with horrific visions as Prot do u guys think?
sweet summit
prot is easier than arms tbh
elder isle
ive been successfully clearing Org 5mask and SW 4mask quite easily up to this point
sweet summit
for visions
elder isle
okay sick
and less reliance on lucid is good too
should i consider taking PP major for visions? or just stick with VoP
sweet summit
if we could play PP major, maybe
elder isle
oh, we cant, my bad haha
sweet summit
but we play CoF major
strong forum
take cof major for ST dmg
sweet summit
get CoF to at least r3
elder isle
i have crucible 3 on all my alts
didnt need it for arms or M+ prot obvs haha
ill just go buy it
i have 7000 echoes of nyalotha
this is my main lol
strong forum
you stop getting echoes when you have bought all of em that you can buy
elder isle
yea
so will i switch Nullification Dynamo to CnS rank 3 after I get it?
for M+? or just raids?
sweet summit
Null is mostly just for raids
you can consider it in very high keys where you are in danger of getting oneshot ish by magic damage
elder isle
cool, ty
im generally more focused on survivability than dps at this point cuz im just doing keys in the 13-range with my friends
im using a 455 safeguard over a 460 humming dragonscale for example
maybe thats really bad idk
sweet summit
safeguard is that pvp trinket?
sweet summit
what other trinkets do you have?
elder isle
elder isle
blue is equipped yea
kk ill switch to scale
and the best azerite to stack for M+ is, as the guide says, Bastion of Might?
given i can pick up 1 of the thunder clap guys?
sweet summit
1st dc(~15 ilvls worth)>all other ilvl increases>bom>HoD/BfI/IF/CwH/MS
elder isle
sick, thanks
is Brace for Impact or Meticulous Scheming better
i can basically choose between those
sweet summit
BfI is prob better defensively due to the extra block value. but id take MS any day, BIG HASTE
elder isle
cuz my shoulder is 480 Kraken Shell and my chest is 480 Arterial Protection
i have a ton of haste on all my gear luckily cuz arms wants that too
sick
sweet summit
never enough haste
elder isle
and for choices like this
i can defer to icy-veins right?
its generally accurate enough?
sweet summit
never ever take the tanking one
you go for stat increases like UF or OP and EleWhirl
elder isle
lol rly?
sweet summit
yes
sweet summit
crys cara is very poop
sweet summit
@ionic fern
elder isle
sorry i didnt mean to insult anyone
if the trait is garbage why is it in S tier u know what i mean
sweet summit
its all good 😂
ionic fern
BEcause it's decent from a defensive PoV.
sweet summit
woulnt more stats just be better
elder isle
i am trusting The Expert and taking Carapace
sturdy valve
is the block proc shield from mechagon any good for prot?
ionic fern
I was thinking about how to do the S tier.
There's multiple things to take into consideration due to the offensive/defensive parts of them.
I will probably split S tier into offensive/defensive.
sweet summit
@sturdy valve worst shield in the game at equal ilvl
ionic fern
To make it more clear to people.
sturdy valve
yikes, tyvm
sweet summit
would be much appreciated
warm plinth
I think that's a good idea. Seems silly to say hey the icy-veins guide is recommended, but then we contradict a lot of what's said in the guide because no one in here plays for pure survival XD
elder isle
this Blood Rite talent isnt ranked in the guides, its shit i assume then? this row kinda sucks it seems
ionic fern
@elder isle UF is a really solid trait and as Rosjen said - stats are generally better options.
Carapace is 'good' in the sense that it's better than the rest purely defensive traits.
elder isle
okay cool, thanks
ok heres my character am i doing anything really stupid u can see right off the bat
aside from playing on Feathermoon
and not enchanting my first ring (omw to do that now!!)
ionic fern
There we go, UF is now S tier and Carapace is marked lower for more clairvoyance.
strong forum
finally
warm plinth
@elder isle Nothing really to be seen there; I'd probably use CR instead of the PvP trait maybe? Idk how that compares tbh since I don't see PvP azerite ever.
elder isle
oh i dont know why but apparently Battlefield Focus was rated quite high on something i was looking at
undone sun
it's fine to use at base value, but it doesn't usually take into account what other traits you have and if they might benefit off of them, no synergies
warm plinth
Yeah bloodmallet is simming that trait and nothing else. Whereas if you do like a raidbots sim, it's taking all your gear and traits and shit into account
elder isle
cool ill sim on raidbots and check it out
even tho dratnos says its bad im gonna sim Dungeon Slice (in addition to Patchwerk)
undone sun
Patchwerk 1t 3m
Pathcwerk 3t 1.5m no lust
Patchwerk 5t 1.5m no lust
strong forum
patchwerk is most up to date
other sims require a completely different APL
which nobody really wants to update
elder isle
okay sick
thanks, ill note that patchwerk 1t, 3t, 5t
should i be aiming for 39 or 59 corruption? i remember last time i asked someone told me 59 is ok because for some reason spell reflect counters Thing
strong forum
depends on comfortability
elder isle
i think 59 could be too much for isntances like TD or Waycrest tho right
circle too big
elder isle
maybe when i get a little better at tanking ill try it
is there a way to save this sim?
ive checked all these boxes and shit and what gear i wanna compare
i wanna run it 3 times, 1t 3t 5t
strong forum
🤷♂️ i do it manually everytime
tame garden
Once the first sim is done theres a "run sim again" button that fills everything out the same
And then you can just change the number of targets/fight length
elder isle
oh sick
thanks a lot speg
that owns
ty ty ty
Avoidance is shit right? i have this 460 avoidance ring
12 corruption for 12% avoidance or something
considering i googled "Prot Warrior Avoidance" and nothijng came up, i can conclude its shit i think?
tame garden
Avoidance is niche
warm plinth
Avoidance itself isn't bad; it's just that there's not a lot of use for it in BFA
tame garden
Nothing calls for it atm ^
warm plinth
Basically
It reduces any attack that can potentially hit multiple targets, even if it only hits you.
So a good example would be like...Vexiona Breath, or the cleave from the Riders in ToS
elder isle
okay, makes snese
by the way, the sim results came back
taking Callous Reprisal over Battlefield Focus is a 500 dps loss Single Target, but a 1000 dps gain in 3 targets and 1500 in 5 targets
considering it also has minor defensive capabilities i think ill switch to it
warm plinth
Yeah that'd be my call as well
elder isle
okay im gonna try a 4mask before a 5mask considering ive never done a vision as prot before
is anyone experienced in this niche arms-vs-prot vision thing to give me any info they might know about what i will experience transitioning
i feel like ill need to treat bosses a little more seriously because i cant just Lucid, Colossus ToM, and Bladestorm them down in like 10 sec
but i bet i can pull bigger
like i can probably pull from the start of the dwarven district all of the mobs off to the leftside auction house including forgemaster miniboss
i do that as arms anyways but only with gift + all cds
warm plinth
I have some advice
Don't go from 0 masks to 4 masks
You will die
Wait, have you done 5 mask as arms?
elder isle
yea
warm plinth
Ah
elder isle
is there anything cool to reflect
like idk
i just need info on standard prot strategy for vision
naive panther
Spec fury. So much easier.
I mean it was weeks ago but 4 mask as prot was fine but boss damage was too slow at 5, so went fury and stopped mega pulls.
warm plinth
Uh, you can spell reflect to run out of split personality
That's the only one I really noticed; I haven't done visions myself (as prot)
elder isle
im not gonna spec fury
i have like tons of experience as arms and im switching to prot now
im not gonna learn another spec to do a vision i would just go back to arms
strange tide
When Umbridge starts spamming those bolts at you use that time for spell reflect to cooldown to use for polymorph
leaden dune
How good is pally healer thinking maybe tank on warr but he good to understand healers when I’m tanking
distant crystal
very
warm plinth
Always ilevel on shields
upper kindle
In ML, do you guys let the small add turn into the big peacekeeper. I feel like it forces the dps to do very inefficient dps because of bolstering.
mortal brook
yeh, peacekeeper is good percentage. bolstering week you gotta game it a bit tho
sick sentinel
The secret is to not do the peacekeepers because they're not as good as people think. Go to 1st boss, make up percent with trash at end. Notice don't do this above 18 or 19
languid sedge
Are there any specific dungeons to farm for specific pieces on prot war ?
last mason
have any of u deviated from quick nav at any point
hallow phoenix