I haven't even seen TD on an alt since my DH got her gloves week 1 of the season
#protection
warm plinth
warm plinth
Saving up for a mythic ra-den with loot stack atm to see if I can get lucky with some lashes
sick sentinel
😘
maiden ravine
ewww, brezzes getting a cast time again
left hatch
VDH is getting demonic
warm plinth
left hatch
hmmmm more meta uptime
warm plinth
potent anvil
It's time 
left hatch
pog
warm plinth
TDwind amirite
potent anvil
final mist
It’s pretty good
warm plinth
I will never know
potent anvil
I never ran >40 in like 22+ keys, but I think at this point it's worth. Either I die or they do
lean arch
i can't wait for the day where i can run my TD9
oblique garnet
Below 60 is fine
lean arch
in like, november
potent anvil
You say that Late, but grasping tendrils is the real killer 👀
left hatch
its the eyeball that gets me
esp when they spawn back to back and you're at like 30 stacks
oblique garnet
Oh i know
@potent anvil See this is why you play vop major so it removes the slow when procs 
potent anvil
warm plinth
Big brain play
prisma ember
475 rezans w 470 psychic shell for M+ 18 and higher or 460 socket dragonscale + psychic shell?
essentially 475 rezans or 460 socket wrathion trink better?
limpid pawn
so crit haste over crit verse for m+ because....
the parry chance is better for many mob situations?
left hatch
yes
parry is (one of) the strongest mitigation in the game
and in aoe situations the amount of times you parry normalizes
and its haste crit over haste verse *
and @prisma ember id go rezan and dragonscale
theres no real need for the absorb until you get to 20
last mason
How do you get proc indicators such as the ones for op, rampage, and revenge to appear on the screen agai
junior bough
is echoing void corruption good? got searing flames, echoing R2, and twilight R1. What do u guys think is best combo I can only have 2 of those on?
left hatch
unless you know you'll need nzoth to survive, and are gonna need it on cd, yo'ull get more 'tankiness' out of double haste trinks
limpid pawn
i think nzoth trinket is the godliest one there is
left hatch
it is, but theres no need for it till you get to high keys
junior bough
thanks guys
limpid pawn
it gives so much room for error in all situations
left hatch
if yo'ure sitting on it as an oshit button
limpid pawn
like you have 5% life, it will prevent the death 100% lol
left hatch
you're inting
limpid pawn
yeah
but like, what if you pug some keys occasionally
or in most peoples cases all the time lol
left hatch
if yo'ure getting into hella bad situations in say 15s
its on you
its a gameplay issue
either overpulling knowing you have a bad healer
or you're messing something else up
limpid pawn
i carry 15s using pug healers on the regular son
when i enter the obelisk, I need to know nozth has my back
left hatch
and if you're dropping to 5% health
you're doing something wrong
theres some player error there
limpid pawn
no that was just a hypothetical
prisma ember
@left hatch say you're doing a 20.. shell + scale or shell + rezan
left hatch
20? shell+... hmm
scale probably
consistency = better when talking about defensives
but yah brollikk, im just saying for the general public
advocating using that trinket (no matter how strong it is) is eh advice
because you'll have ppl taking it into 10s and using it as an 'oh fuck im low' button
which playing reactively is no bueno
better to get into the habit of making more risky pulls around using it knowing you'll need it
chrome palm
what does AuG essence stand for?
limpid pawn
yeah i hear you
left hatch
or just using a crit or haste
limpid pawn
one thing i like to do with it
limpid pawn
is go in earlier for obelisk, like the fear or spider one
left hatch
Ashara's something Gift
limpid pawn
get all the adds while using it
chrome palm
tyty
limpid pawn
every single person in the group is a pug, coordinating is impossible
i don't even wanna type to them
left hatch
im not saying what yo'ure doing is wrong but, theres other more efficient options
chrome palm
ok
limpid pawn
ilevel is godly
chrome palm
damn i got lucky AF on that shield in the cache
limpid pawn
im 479 equipped atm, just absolutely unkillable
ionic fern
What the f*ck guys.
chrome palm
realistic genitals on all specs in shadowlands confirmed?
chrome palm
is there a writeup on how shields and ilvl affect survive?
left hatch
do you want a TLDR or actual numbers
chrome palm
well i'd like some kind of readable explanation
limpid pawn
but like the dude said above, it is like having grevious on all the time
limpid pawn
very hard to carry as brew
left hatch
you can't parse for survivability
left hatch
for shields block is hands down our most important stat, it increases your chance to block ANDthe % of how much damage is blocked of each blocked attack
every tier the k value of the tier is changed so our block becomes less effecient and essentally resets to the beginning of the tier
ionic fern
Go read the new changes instead and then be as confused as i am.
left hatch
since the only sources of block in game are from our shield, and the 2 azerite traits IF and BFI it makes shields are most important slot
chrome palm
is block just a function of shield ilvl?
left hatch
because its effectively the only thing that impacts our active mitigation
its a stat on the shield so more or less
chrome palm
i dont see it listed
left hatch
lemme check my warrior real quick, cause it should be listed
chrome palm
im looking at my raiderio. ill check armory
sick sentinel
But just know higher ilvl = higher block
sweet summit
left hatch
thank you
sweet summit
dont bully my 465 
sick sentinel
Do you like dying
sweet summit
its all i have
left hatch
its largely an irrelevent number, because its consistent across every shield of equivilant ilvl
chrome palm
what's BFI trait?
undone sun
brace for impact
left hatch
thats fine, with a 470 shield you're golden
chrome palm
i have 3 BoM, 1 Deafening, 1 IF
chrome palm
+1,100 block seems super good....
left hatch
the ideal build for M+ is 3BoM, 1DC and 2 of either HoD, clockwerk heart, or Meticulous scheming
block does have a cap to the dmg it reduces
as does critical block
left hatch
yeh i looked at your traits earlier
your setup isn't bad
and with a 470 shield now you're basically set
autumn pendant
ionic fern
Hopefully more.
left hatch
warrior changes*
chrome palm
is it on wowhead?
undone sun
yes
left hatch
yeh they have a bluepost of first pass changes to each class
undone sun
too early to start judgment though
signal plover
Especially since we have no clue how they're worked into the class
undone sun
and so far worded almost exactly as live
Never Surrender increases Ignore Pain by either a moderate or significant amount based on missing health.
🤔
undone sun
glad to know NS is still dead
signal plover
It's like they don't understand the issue with that talent lol
ionic fern
Maybe they don't know what it does live .. @undone sun
undone sun
i wouldn't be surprised
signal plover
Yo but indom being a self heal tho...
undone sun
not exactly a big oversight
. Indomitable will passively increase the Warrior’s maximum health by a moderate amount, and spending Rage while the ability is active will heal their wounds.
yeah, that's not that bad
ionic fern
Depends on the numbers. 😦
signal plover
Ya
ionic fern
And what it's on the same row with
undone sun
but we still need to know how much heal/rage
signal plover
Double ya
I'm interested to see how they cram all this shit in without doing stances.
Praying for that friends/family invite
chrome palm
are warriors usually strong at the start of xpacs?
undone sun
not always
signal plover
Not as strong as they are at the end
chrome palm
i wonder what tanks will be good at 9.0
signal plover
Prot especially is a toss up lol. Sometimes stronk sometimes bonk
Early EN ignore pain mmmmmm
left hatch
safe bet monks will be good
signal plover
For raid prog ya
chrome palm
yeah i'm kinda bored with the monk atm
undone sun
last two expacs have been polar opposites in terms of start of expac
left hatch
aside from that we wont know till months from now
signal plover
The bdk changes looked way more fun than ours tbh
chrome palm
they get a pet
left hatch
and the new unholy mastery, leaning into them being a melee beastmaster
signal plover
2h frost also back
chrome palm
demo lock feels like legion unholy
glad roost
Hi everyone, I'm a new Protection Warrior. I'm having trouble maintaining aggro from the group in Mythic plus. I was wondering if you guys had any tips for me 
chrome palm
thunder clap
left hatch
are you popping avatar and DS on cd? do you have the right talents? what's your opener on packs?
glad roost
uhm. what's ds?
left hatch
demo shout
glad roost
yeah i usually avatar - charge thunder clap - demo
left hatch
thats the right opener at least
glad roost
but the people im with generate a lot of damage so my thunderclap doesn't bring the adds back to me so I use taunt on each of them
left hatch
if you clap every other gcd you should have more than enough threat
if its like very overgeared DH just tell them to wait an extra global to blow their beams
sometimes its just a gear issue
kind geyser
you might lose aggro to those that use the iris major asap, or fury warriors that go all out asap as well
left hatch
and its NOT worth tab targeting to taunt
or using the aoe taunt essence
do not stray from VoP
kind geyser
but otherwise just use tclap as much as you can
left hatch
or itll make your life harder
chrome palm
sometimes the leuitenant adds get hard to aggro
glad roost
i only have Vision of Perfection level 1 so I'm using Aegis of the Deep as Major and Vision as a Minor
chrome palm
they fly all over while you're trying to deal with the luiet
sick sentinel
Yep we eat sleep and breathe VoP major
glad roost
wow really I'll change it to vision then
im trying to get haste crit gear is that ok?
left hatch
thats the ideal
glad roost
i have higher ilvl items but they don't have the right stats so i should wear them regardless
sick sentinel
Yes
left hatch
unless its rings/trinkets yes
never sac ilvl
more stats > good stats
and none of the secondaries are really bad for us
lapis sonnet
Td is the goto corruption if running keys right? Any decent alternatives if the rng gods haven’t put out?
sick sentinel
Some are less in value, but there is no stat that is bad
Until you hit the 22-24 key range Td is de way
left hatch
Gushing wounds, Twisted Appendage, Echoeing Void,
sick sentinel
GW
glad roost
Td means told dagor?
sick sentinel
Drools
left hatch
Twilight Devestation
sick sentinel
Twilight devastation
lapis sonnet
Do you drop ilvl for corruption? I’m teetering on that timing 15s push to higher key stage. Rocking 470 ilvl overall with the itching from ep.
sick sentinel
left hatch
raidbots has a very nice feature that you can set a hardcap for the corruption you're comfortable with
and go with w/e gives you the most output
chrome palm
so WRT that question i asked before about block stat and damage reduction - I found this
https://www.wowhead.com/protection-warrior-mythic-dungeon-guide#understanding-k-value-and-block
glad roost
for my azerite gear i have lower ilvl azerite gear that has the avatar traits should i wear them over the higher ilvl azerite gear without the right traits?
lapis sonnet
Thanks
sick sentinel
Wowhead and talking about k values is usually a recipe for disaster
chrome palm
anyone have anything better?
like with how to understand shield block and damage reduction
specifically with gear/ilvl
left hatch
most cases the only trait youd drop ilvl for is DC
glad roost
what's dc?
ionic fern
Deafening Crash
chrome palm
deafening crash
left hatch
deafening crash
chrome palm
frick
undone sun
+1
chrome palm
how can i kick him?
glad roost
uh so 3 deafening crash and 3 avatar?
chrome palm
1 DC
left hatch
no
1 DC, 3 BoM, and 2 of preferably meticulous scheming, clockwork heart or Heart of Darkness
Brace for Impact and Iron Fortress are also good if you don't have a nice shield
sick sentinel
BoM being bastion of might
glad roost
ah too bad i don't have any of those haha 😦
left hatch
thats fine, ilvl>right traints
chrome palm
arent they super common? meaning i think you should be able to get quite a few from the azerite vendor
BoM is on a ton of pieces
left hatch
BoM and HoD are on all hte raid gear
sick sentinel
Correct, doesn’t mean everyone has them
chrome palm
yeah for sure
glad roost
my gear has a lot of blood sport
left hatch
eww
chrome palm
underrated movie
sick sentinel
Some of us roll shit helmets every week
inland mesa
do we think the class changes are saying best served cold, menace, indomitable and never surrender are all baseline.....or is that just talent updates and we still won't take them?
undone sun
doubtful
ionic fern
Probably talents.
left hatch
in the case of other classes they make a point to say "Gargoyle" is now baseline
undone sun
not only would they be putting those into relatively passive positions, they'd also have to design as least 4 new talents
inland mesa
I don't see how any of those changes make me want to move off of bolster or anger management yet 😦
while like vdh, brew, and prot paladin are all excited, those notes make me sad. Especially having to add execute, hamstring, slam, whirlwind, shattering throw all to the bar >.>
oblique garnet
Nah pretty much just give up on tanking and move to dpsing and you can be happy 🙂
ionic fern
inland mesa
I like tanking Late and I've been a warrior tank since vanilla 😦
glad roost
Thank you guys so much I changed my gear and I'm going to test out holding aggro.
oblique garnet
inland mesa
I didn't give up on it like you monk boy!
oblique garnet
no i gave up tanking
oblique garnet
after nzoth died
ionic fern
Even m+?
inland mesa
I have to raid call, I feel like that's a lot easier on a tank
oblique garnet
i mean im tanking m+ sometimes
chrome palm
DPSing M+ is pretty fun ngl
left hatch
way less stressful to dps
chrome palm
i think dpsing the raid is boring af though
ionic fern
I'm such a bad melee DPS that i spent half my time reading the "YOu're not in range" error.
That's why i DPS as ranged.
shut summit
oblique garnet
Good morning sense
chrome palm
yeah i havent DPSed since legion and i geared a demo lock
it's so damn fun
blowing up imps
left hatch
oof
chrome palm
i tried a fire mage and wanted to uninstall
left hatch
lock in this economy
chrome palm
idk how people live with themselves as fire mage
left hatch
brave man
inland mesa
Sense and I will be the only ones left 😦
warm plinth
shut summit
Would go dps if could find tank that didn't make me wana scream....
astral badge
Is vial of animated blood 475 worth it for prot warr?
left hatch
if you use it right, yes
warm plinth
The only what left? Prot war?
ionic fern
👀
inland mesa
that's honesly how I got into tanking, between vanilla and BC our tanks quit and all first part of BC we kept rotating through them and I was like fuck it I'll do it and haven't looked back
chrome palm
yeah i just kept getting denied groups as an unholy DK and i was like, fuck it im gonna learn to tank
inland mesa
I don't number whore enough to be good at dps, I'm constantly surveying the raid to see who is screwing up to fix it and get a kill
sharp night
most good tanks are just frustrated dps
oblique garnet
This is true
sharp night
that couldn't find a good tank
ionic fern
Or frustrated healers.
warm plinth
That's why @sharp night is my tank
chrome palm
healing is fun as hell, but the UI setup is a pain in the ass
you gotta have a seperate profile and all that
ionic fern
Because you're healing someone thinking why they are taking so much damage and at the end of the dungeon you check the buff uptime and see that the guardian druid had 19% Ironfur uptime.
🙂
🙂
🙂
sharp night
i use the same profile on my healers as my other specs tbh
chrome palm
even for raid healing?
sharp night
yeah
chrome palm
is your raidframes just big as F in the center of your ui?
chrome palm
interesting
left hatch
i hide all but 1 action bar
chrome palm
i finally caved and just got someones elvui setup
left hatch
and just use WA's for cds + muscle memory
chrome palm
my UI was objectively ugly
warm plinth
I have two small action bars on each side of my UI but it's mostly WAs at this point
left hatch
i like having my screen clear, lotta realestate to look at all the things im not moving outta (:
chrome palm
yeah just set them as mouseover if you need it
sharp night
lol
warm plinth
That's actually smart. That's the one issue I have with my UI is I can't see vehicle shit
sharp night
my actionbars are completely hidden in combat
unless i'm in a vehicle
then there's a tiny one off to the side
so i can check what each spell does
warm plinth
Or maybe I can make it so they show if I'm in a vehicle
chrome palm
is that an option?
sharp night
yep
chrome palm
that would be super helpful
sharp night
using bartender it is at least
chrome palm
ah
sharp night
not sure about elvui
sharp night
bartender lets you set "conditions" for bar visibility
like stances/combat/vehicle/etc
anything that works in a macro it does for bars
chrome palm
i want to:
a. use actionbar #2 in a vehicle
b. show actionbar #2 only when in a vehicle
never figured out how
searched for like 45 minutes and gave up
sharp night
i'm sure it's doable with elvui but i don't use elvui
left hatch
vehicle action bars are usually their own thing
sharp night
my entire UI is addons customized lol
left hatch
and either override action bar 1 or are totally seperate
warm plinth
I had to redo my bars to fix that
warm plinth
Just reset binds so that action bar 1 is your 1-5, etc.
chrome palm
bc i'm lazy/stubborn i guess
same reason i'm hoping blizzard will let me buy CnS
lmao
glad roost
Guys for Talents its Into the Fray - Crackling Thunder - Unstoppable Force - Bolster - Storm Bolt - Booming Voice and Anger Management right?
sharp night
yeah
sharp night
you can swap crackling/storm
left hatch
yes*
grand drum
you can change thunder and storm bolt
chrome palm
so is Never Surrender just not used at all?
oblique garnet
No
left hatch
the only sitaution youd ever use it
chrome palm
i know bolster is OP, but on paper NS looks good
warm plinth
This is what mine looks like (low res because remote desktop)
left hatch
is if you were on a super high tyranical ML
chrome palm
i dont see how they can ever get rid of bolster
warm plinth
left hatch
and were swapping talents for last 2
chrome palm
wouldnt that force you to take a defensive trinket?
chrome palm
i feel like without Bolster you'd just be left without defensives
chrome palm
ah
sharp night
i don't have a current ss of my ui rip
warm plinth
Never Surrender might be worth it situationally in SL depending on where the thresholds are. Sounds like it's not going to be a flat line from 100 to 0 in SL
left hatch
to early for dis speculation sirrrr
warm plinth
Truth
chrome palm
i wonder if they'd make bolster baseline in shadowlands
warm plinth
I am properly chastised, thank you for keeping me in line sir.
chrome palm
that would clear up a trait spot
oblique garnet
Ui needs to be clean
left hatch
and just SS/TCapping every gcd
oblique garnet
naowhs ui ?
warm plinth
Good thing you have that massive sword to make sure you know you're a warrior @oblique garnet
chrome palm
how often do you use that top left weakaura?
sharp night
and combat things autohide
chrome palm
the one that shows you all your config
rose furnace
Clockwork heart good for dungeons or do i want to stack as much HoD as possible?
sharp night
so i check it a lot to make sure i'm in the right stuff
chrome palm
what's the bottom left?
sharp night
CWH is effectively equivalent to HoD
chrome palm
some of the top prot warriors on Twitch have the worst UIs i've ever seen
like Trell
and RedWoyer
Trell doesnt have a weakaura for IP
he looks at the buff icon top right
undone sun
not like you need one
left hatch
why following the best players inth eworld
oblique garnet
^
left hatch
isn't always the best
left hatch
they're god tier players but they don't always do godtier things/habits
undone sun
i did when i played, but tracking the exact value of IP isn't game changing
oblique garnet
you dump rage to it anyways
undone sun
at most just the CD
chrome palm
i mean you can cap it
left hatch
^ overcapping rage is worse than overcapping ip
warm plinth
You're going to cap it
chrome palm
if it's capped and not dropping off, use revenge
undone sun
capping ip is better than rage capping
chrome palm
or keep the rage
undone sun
no
chrome palm
just waste the rage on capped IP?
undone sun
no
left hatch
and high enough content you dont have the luxury of non free revenge
undone sun
Rage put into an already capped IP still feeds into anger management
oblique garnet
in m+
chrome palm
so does revenge
undone sun
literally no waste
oblique garnet
99% of the cases you dont have a revenge that isnt free
undone sun
free revenge doesn't feed into anger management
chrome palm
right i mean nonfree
oblique garnet
^
left hatch
yo'ure also comparing your experience in 12's, where damage is ZZZZ and an ip will last you a season
to like 24's
chrome palm
yeah
left hatch
where it drops off in a heartbeat
undone sun
sure, but in high target counts like M+, it's rare you get non-free revenges
chrome palm
i could see IP lasting 1 hit
i think my IP is like 140k, so theres is prolly way higher
or 160k or something capped
oblique garnet
revenge is also on gcd ip is not
undone sun
big bottleneck
oblique garnet
revenge is mostly used to spread deep wounds in aoe
its not that big of an priority over other abilities
as in ss/tc
surreal girder
you don't want more than one bastion right?
undone sun
no, 3 bastion is good
surreal girder
oh shit okay
undone sun
don't want more than one DC
chrome palm
if you are bleeding from Rezan, can you use demo shout to reduce the damage even if rezan isnt in range?
or do you need to hit him with it before the bleed starts?
chrome palm
that k value guide on wowhead is actually super good
undone sun
👍
fresh valley
i haven't tanked since s2.. explains why i'm getting clapped in keys
left hatch
eh DC stacking isn't gonna nuke your survivability
theres something else there
mebe just a low hsield
undone sun
player error
fresh valley
player error is definitely part of it
🙂
reading through the above about revenge being only free at higher keys
i think i've been effin my rage management and letting small gaps between shield blocks/last stands rotations
right now my group is pushing into the 18/19/20 range
i need to do a better job of coordinating defensives with healers, not overlapping demo and an external
etc etc
lavish grove
in terms of trinkets from dungeons which ones are worth using?
chrome palm
Rezan's eye is good
lavish grove
yeh ik that one but was more thinking about temple wcm and underrot ones
sick sentinel
From dungeons rezan+block is probably your best general use set up
left hatch
@fresh valley demo isn't an external and its fine if it overlaps, outside of certain burst mechanics (like mythic wrathion breath or ilgy beam in raid) you use it on cd
its better to keep it on cd for the massive rage gen than sit on it for the 15% dr
lucid steppe
hey... i am pretty new to warri tank (maining blood) ... got a trinket q... i have 455 psychic, 445 sigil+socket, 465 rezans eye and 445 bloodthirsty urchin ... which are good combs for def/dps? ty!
chrome palm
p sure urchin is godly
chrome palm
question about the first boss in Workshop. Why do I see tanks on twitch stack the group near the fire boss? Also why do they get aggro on the first boss at all?
what does the stack do?
does it bait some attack?
chrome palm
why does the tank aggro the fire car boss?
fresh valley
morrison, appreciate that, but i don't raid. only m+
chrome palm
doesnt he just go do his own thing?
left hatch
right it was just an example
fresh valley
got'cha
left hatch
in M+ offhand i can't think of anything overly in hte 18/19 scary that youd sit on demo for
but im also tired af
fresh valley
generally i want it up for the start of every pack, so i'll sit on it at the end of a pull
left hatch
eh even if you get like 1/2 its duration
its worth
for the rage gen alone
thats where the big defensive value comes in is keeping the rage flowing for anger management
15% is very smol dr
chrome palm
so with 3xBoM and 1xIF, that makes avatar crit block every attack basically right?
left hatch
crit block caps at 85%
chrome palm
right
left hatch
the chance to crit block*
but yah more or less
avatar + SB up
cause you can't crit block unless you regular block
chrome palm
yeah makes sense
so maybe my whole "stack haste" thing is a mistake
and instead i could use some mastery
mortal brook
mastery doesnt boost twilight devastation
chrome palm
lmao
mortal brook
so i mean, ez choice
chrome palm
alright good to know
fresh valley
About stat priority as well, i've always followed the notion of more stats = better
chrome palm
oh shit
left hatch
thats true
chrome palm
that's smart 400IQ
fresh valley
but should i should start prioritizing haste/versa 465 over random stat 475 gear?
left hatch
at 18/19 no
lucid steppe
ty for your answer guys 🙂
left hatch
once you get to like 23's yes
and yo'ull also wanna start holding onto verse % and verse proc
sick sentinel
Just because at that level shit just trucks you
fresh valley
also, i have a 445 ring with R2 TD, i assume i gotta roll with it. it's all i got at the moment
left hatch
yeh yo'ure still in the range of 'dps corruptions bis'
fresh valley
i mean i have a 465 with haste/versa in every slot, so i could be at ast 25% versatility
sick sentinel
Jesus that must be nice
left hatch
but unless you need it its a waste
sick sentinel
Haste verse gear continues to elude me
left hatch
and you don't need it in the key range you're at
fresh valley
i pvp as arms.. so have to stack haste/versa there
i mean, i hear what you're saying about the damage level, but if i can reduce the damage level significantly to be ready for the higher keys, i want to be practicing as if it's higher
so that i'm ready when i get there
left hatch
thats the thing tho is the difference between where yo'ure at and there is astronomical
thats like saying i practice mythic raid by doing lfr
the damage profiles and how you approach it is night and day
and like sure you can just stack verse now and go lucid major and this and that but
youd be actively making lower keys harder for your group
in order to 'prep' for high ones
fresh valley
the 20's we've been doing, the damage intake has definitely been a problem for us
fresh valley
yep
left hatch
stacking verse isn't going to save you from misplays
or be a substitue for learning proper pulls, executing kicks etc
fresh valley
no disagreement, just trying to understand the full picture
i'm always a "playing better is always >> anything gear can do you for you" person
left hatch
right well thats the thing is swapping up your gear now if you're having issues
won't save you
fresh valley
yep, i'm just trying to understand when/why it's necessary
left hatch
theres a reason haste/crit is the recommended statline below high keys
fresh valley
if my healer is a bit new/undergeared, lower the damage intake may be beneficial for the group
but if i play with a different healer, i may go for more stats
left hatch
in hte case of lucid its in order to make gigapulls in very high keys, that you absolutely need 40s of unbroken avatar and constant ip for to live
and that you're making those gigapulls roughly every 2m
as far as verse is concerned theres certain mechanics that become 1-shots that you need it to live through
its not about lowering your overall damage taken, because crit (in most dungeons) will lower that more than verse will
as will running double haste trinks over say... psychic shell
left hatch
those strats like lucid, shell, verse are to counter specific issues
to which theres better, more efficient solutions for at your key level
and if your healer is struggling its very likely that the limiting factor rn is going to be unavoidable group aoe
not your own survivability
and the best thing you can do for that is be super self-critical about your own stuns/interrupts to reduce that
and of course running TD to make the things dead
fresh valley
yeah, part of the problem has been swapping to tank on a grievous week... is it really me taking uneccesary/preventable damage vs them just falling behind
also group missing mechanics
we're on stabilizing interrupt/stun rotations to minimize overlaps
left hatch
yah, those are problems verse isn't going to solve :/
yo'ure still in the realm of ilvl>all
fresh valley
and my being more vocal on what to do
absolutely
i think this week we'll be timing 20's and stepping into 21s for the first time
we're not far off
just gotta clean up the mechanics
appreciate all the info
left hatch
yeh i think the most important takeaway
is to not overthink
and just because.. say nerfclap is doing something in 25's
doesn't mean its the meta, optimal, or even a good strat
in 20's
fresh valley
yep,agreed and understood
so rezan/butcher are good because the crit/haste help both defensively/offensively, when compared to something like torment which is only offensive.
left hatch
yah
since at least legion stat trinkets have been among the more powerful for tanks
with a few crazy outliers like the occasional DMF deck, urchin etc
fresh valley
and vial is alright, but AM messes up with the timing with avatar right, so is it still worth?
yeah sadly don't have much access to raid trinkets
left hatch
yah its still fine to use if you're using it right*
which means using it manually AFTER ava and DS are used
a lotta ppl macro it to ava and its a waste like that
fresh valley
makes sense, get the big str buff on the clap after DS
left hatch
yup
while ppl that macro it to ava waste the first 3-4 globals of the big value
personally i find it annoying having to use it manually
but it does pump
fresh valley
yeah, i'm probably gonna swap to butcher/rezan instead of jar/vial
left hatch
without raiding those are your best options
the 'tank' trinkets from dungeons are all absolutely terrible
fresh valley
you mean sporepods isn't any good? 
left hatch
(:
and since your'e coming back from S2
you don't even know of the horror that is the mechagon trinket
actually useless
spiral mason
Is jes' howler any good?
left hatch
not hte greatest but its not awful either
fresh valley
lol i just hung up the shield at the end of s2. focused mostly on arena in s3 because beguiling was awful
this season has been a blast
left hatch
its made ML from one of the most ehhh dungeons to my fav
and interestingly atal become one of hte worst now
fresh valley
i love the flexibility on group comps now, i can play with friends now
left hatch
great affix tho
fresh valley
not have to worry about bs routes and messing up invis pot skips or scuffing death runs
sick sentinel
Hi, as i saw, ppl are running one defensive and one offensive trinket. If i do keys like 15-17, its ok to run both offensive? Haste proc, like rezan and trinket from first boss of nyalotha?
left hatch
yes
both of those are technically defensive as well
you don't need to consider truly defensive only t rinkets until you get to 20ish
and even then only psychic shell and urchin are worth a damn
sick sentinel
Have the urchin 430 on my druid, it heals so much, thats silly for 430 ilvl
Ok, thx
cloud umbra
is it usually 460 BoM > 475 non BoM?
warm plinth
No
cloud umbra
thanks
glad roost
Guys do you use Ignore pain off cd?
ionic fern
You use Ignore Pain to dump rage.
So don't mindlessly spam it - use it to avoid capping on rage.
stoic harness
Shield Block > IP?
ionic fern
Yes.
glad roost
Oh what should I spam?
stoic harness
or just use both when either is about to run out
ionic fern
Shield Block is your primary mitigation ability.
IP is there to help smooth out the damage ontop of Shield Block.
Or vs non blockable damage.
stoic harness
okay
also
ive been having some aggro issues lately and i feel like im not missing anything
ionic fern
@glad roost what do you mean? Your primary goal is to keep Shield Block up while actively tanking. Use Ignore Pain to avoid rage capping ontop of Shield Block.
stoic harness
using revenge only on proc and thunderclapping using Avatar off CD
any thoughts on why im losing aggro?
glad roost
Like I always prioritize using Shield Slam while Keeping Shield Block always up and I use revenge when it procs while spamming thunderclap and devastate as a filler when I've done the things that's I've mentioned but I'm still not holding aggro and im taking a lot of damage @ionic fern
ionic fern
It's hard to say @stoic harness. Might just be a dps popping off before you get to grab aggro. In general Avatar-DS-TC-Revenge are enough to keep it. With things like Twilight Devastation on dps players snap aggro can be a bit more difficult from time to time. So be ready to taunt-leap-taunt if needed.
strong forum
you didnt mention shield slam
so you might be missing something MASSIVE
devastate is not to be spammed
stoic harness
i dont use Devastate
ionic fern
"a lot of damage" is very situational and there are a lot of different variables to it.
Is it raid? Is it m+? Is it bleeds? Is it magic damage? Are you turning your back to the enemies? Ercetc
stoic harness
oh
ionic fern
@strong forum he did,first sentence.
strong forum
ah nvm
glad roost
its mostly mythic plus and its grevious week maybe because of that
stoic harness
last question is this week good for big pulls?
ionic fern
Grevious makes it harder jeah.
stoic harness
assuming i can live through it
my favourite thing about prot warrior is the damage output on trash without TD
tame garden
You can pull big if you manage the sanguine well
stoic harness
i can usually compete with a 12-14 group
tame garden
Otherwise it's a big time sink
stoic harness
no sanguine this week?
ionic fern
Teeming/volcanic? Imo jeah. Just have to be smart regarding which packs to pull..e.g don't pull packs with multiple casters bolstered by teeming.
stoic harness
its Teeming Volcano
analog swift
Tyr
glad roost
thanks mwahi
warm plinth
This is the pull shit with bosses week
strong forum
this is last week 
this is this week
i just did ML 15 with 3 mages on sanguine grievous
:)))))))))))))
waxen cradle
True but a lot of dungeons I do that anyway regardless of the affixes because some dungeons just favor it over others most of the time if not all of the time. Like WManor I pull the spider with Gorak pretty much every time
warm plinth
How'd that work out for ya
strong forum
it was so slow and boring, i wouldve never thought ML could be this boring, but alas. I was wrong
warm plinth
Yeah but this week is designed for that pretty much Drkreven :p
strong forum
and it was boost run for a friend so he can get weekly on his 380ilvl magus
waxen cradle
Yeah true
warm plinth
And yeah we always do spider with Gorak too. No reason not to
strong forum
^
warm plinth
Well, unless you're Nome and running dungeons with 3 mages for some reason
strong forum
well there is a reason, if you dont have 4 interrupts something will go through
cuz you need 3 for spider
waxen cradle
I think he just hates himself a little
warm plinth
Yeah, we have a couple casts go through before it dies usually because our 4th kick is a hunter
warm plinth
But not as many as you'd think since tank can use silence sigil for a kick too
warm plinth
Spider usually only lasts about that long anyway, if that
strong forum
sure something will go through and not kill but its still kinda iffy
i did it on our 21 anyway
waxen cradle
Yeah spider goes squish so fast it hardly matters anyway
I did do a WM with 3 shamans before reset that was fun, ALL the interrupts
one of each legit
lol
waxen cradle
yeah
strong forum
drkr even?
waxen cradle
either
waxen cradle
^^^^
sick sentinel
H. Awgz
sick sentinel
I have a beast master hunter named hawgz and his pet is named crawgz
strong forum
almost
waxen cradle
Most just call me Drk or Reven or Dr. or whatever I dont care I dont get hung up on it
warm plinth
Neverkrd?
chrome palm
my block chance is only about 25%. Is that pretty low?
chrome palm
ok cool
sick sentinel
And SB and LS increase that block chance to 100%
undone sun
chance isn't really something you need to look at, because of SB and LS
strong forum
Block chance is mastery
SB gives you 100% so you don't rely on chance to block what you should / want
fresh valley
475 mechagon shield with r3 tendies, yikes
rose furnace
What stats am I prioritizing with corruption stat increases/procs?
Just still as much haste as possible?
undone sun
don't do it
chilly brook
But but but
It's too late anyways I bought the xpac before 8.3 came out for the boost and the month of game time
Hunters getting hunters mark and kill shot baseline
rose furnace
Well yeah
I currently only have TD 1 on my bracers
and I have the option of deadly momentum/racing pulse procs
chilly brook
The pally changes so far are kinda meh but also not meh
I guess I just really wanted seals back lmao
cinder storm
Is ineffable truth worth it?
warm plinth
It has niche use that can make it good. But iirc you only need 1
Like if it procs between SRs on Rixxa, you can reflect all of the chemical burns
cinder storm
Thanks
rose furnace
For M+ would you guys take an Iron Fortress or Clockwork heart?
Everything else between the two pieces is the same
dawn jasper
Clockwork is normally the go
rose furnace
That's what I figure
I still need to replace my engie helm at some point
But that gives me DC, and then my chest/shoulders are both BoM and Clockwork
chilly brook
So indomitable is becoming the bracers from legion
hallow phoenix
Strength unless you can get decent uptime on void. I run void if there are 4 on use essences in the party, or if the healer is running cof
lofty chasm
sweet, appreciate it
novel temple
how good is the glimpse of claritry corruption? also, do corruption procs prevent other corruption pieces from proccing?
limpid pawn
vocal flame
would you guys sacrafice 104 haste for a piece of gear that has an added corrpution stat? would put me at 50 total. Not sure if some are worth keeping. I have Twilight Devastation already and this one would give me echo of the void
fresh valley
if blood sport is so bad, am i better off running retaliatory fury? 502 master 5k dmg absorb for 10 sec
sick sentinel
Is CoS more of an offensive essence rather than a defensive essence?
wheat talon
@vocal flame are you just losing 104 haste and not gaining or losing any ilvl or other stats? Is that 50 corruption after corruption resistance? what level is the echoing void?
@fresh valley Retaliatory Fury is not very good.
fresh valley
i figured both options were pretty meh
vocal flame
@wheat talon Hi, ill be losing haste for Vers and losing a tad of crit. Both peices have crit. Not sure what level the echoing void is but its +25 corruption on the item. Yes thats 50 total if i add them in granting me the thing from beyond lol
warm plinth
@novel temple No, Glimpse is honestly probably tied with the avoidance one for usefulness.
And if you are asking if like...TD procs would prevent Gushing Wound procs, no, they wouldn't.
vocal flame
@wheat talon both are the same item level. Im not sure if we are adding corrupted gear just because or are we looking at what kind it is etc.
lucid pendant
warm plinth
Surging Vit
wheat talon
if they're the same item level, then your choice is just whether you have enough corruption resistance to handle that corruption. The stat differences aren't gonna be big enough to make a difference.
If you don't want to run with Grand Delusions, you should probably get a bit more resistance before equipping that corrupt
vocal flame
ok sounds good thats what i was thinking, not sure if the benefits outweighed adding it on
thank you
vocal flame
engineering goggles worth it? ilevel 475 and i can make them def an ilevel boost for me
vocal flame
perfect. thanks so much!
runic spruce
Thoughts on replacing a 465 azerite chest that has BoM with a 480 that doesnt have BoM?
For keys
is 3x BoM worth the 15ilv downgrade
warm plinth
No, the only trait worth an ilevel loss is your first Deafening Crash
south osprey
should i buy 460 versatile III gloves from a guildy if im working on this warrior for pushing big keys
over 475 non corrupted
is 130k a good price for that
south osprey
thats the goal yeah just an alt
wanna push 20+
curious if its worth the gamble of whether or not i will need them when i get there.. only been 120 for a week or so on this guy but pushing 16s and stuff now
celest field
Hi, how much haste is the cap for prot warrior? I mean ... i have 32% of haste (out of "Into the Fray" talent), should i keep gem in haste? or is not worth anymore and should start to use my gems slots for crit or versa?
odd fiber
You should be good on haste now, from what I can tell from looking at higher end players on warcraftlogs. It might be good to gem in vers or crit depending on where those stats are
mortal brook
600% haste. dont go beyond that
runic spruce
Thanks Ghash
mortal brook
until then, ilvl > haste > crit/vers
last mason
u guys think 700k is worth for a 475 surging vitality shield
last mason
true
mental scarab
You guys have shields over 465 😖
tardy oak
I have 400 ilvl shield and weapon, as a quest reward from pvp i should get a 440 Weapon or Shield first?
surreal girder
Shield
main shoal
So i got skitra h shoulders, what inner ring is better, overwhelming power or caparace?
amber siren
unstable flames on that piece isnt bad either
haste will have a better defensive return
but crit is good too for deeps
but no not carapace
amber siren
yis
main shoal
thanks!
amber siren
alpine island
When it comes to Azerite-Items, Ilvl over good Traits ? What would you pick here ?
amber siren
the only trait worth dropping ilvl for is deafening crash (up to 15 ilvl)
placid oar
Hi guys, can i ask which M+ is the best to farm for a shield? I am just about to gear up prot this tier. Any advice is much appreciated
alpine island
Okay thanks 🙂 If I already have a deafening crash on an other azerite item I wear i can go for ilvl @amber siren 🙂 ?
amber siren
afaik the best shield for us is from dungeons is from Atal'dazar but I might be wrong on that
@alpine island yep that's fine!
placid oar
@amber siren Thank you Sir, will farm that dungeon (=
amber siren
remote tusk
Big red button 😦
native acorn
2nd defeaning or brace for impact?
strong forum
Bfi
native acorn
ty
potent anvil
are there any spreadsheets with information about how many stats u should have as prot warr?
like % haste?
amber siren
there aren't any stat softcaps to hit, just follow the priority system in #268491842637660160
hasty quest
Hey guys can you help?
I can swap my 470 shield haste mastery with this Boe 460 with twilight devastation rank 2. I have also gloves 475 with twilight devastation, is this worth?
amber siren
if youre willing to drop some survivability for damage, sure
depends how much gold is worth to you
hasty quest
Golds are not an issue atm, in the end I will have 2xrwilight devastation rank 2
I don’t know if this worth for 10 item level drops on shield
potent anvil
i would say it's not that worth it, you're dropping a lot of blockchance, stamina a.s.o. and tbh, u'll get better items with td anytime
i know, i'm not that 100% sure with prot warr, but that's my opinion
amber siren
well yeah, lowering your item level with your shield is going to increase the damage you take, no way around that
i personally wouldnt both since corruptions are pretty bountiful between caches and vision runs but if youre wanting to buy it to blast some 15s or something then it's your money to spend
amber siren
potent anvil
if i have the choice between 143 haste 101 versa and 101haste 143 versa, what should i take?
strong forum
whatever you perfer
the 143 vers one for 23+
below that the haste one
or just both
potent anvil
and the final one: got a weapon out of weekly cache, already equipped the one of furorion mythic with 842-1405 dmg, the one of cache has 982-1264 dmg,s econdary stats are pretty much the same
strong forum
ilvl
potent anvil
same ilvl
strong forum
then whichever you prefer
if both are the same
dmg range is mostly just flavour nowadays
maiden ravine
I didn't even know they could vary
brittle owl
there is a slight dps variance if you get lucky with auto attack crits
but like
who cares
it's so smol
maiden ravine
I'm giving vengeance tanking a shot for some reason
Need to grind out some 460 gear in 11s haha
brittle owl
enjoy being immortal
maiden ravine
And massive TDs haha
brittle owl
and the rollercoaster that comes with it
sometimes you nope packs out of existence
sometimes you actually heal them
maiden ravine
I know healing dh on my paladin gives me heart attacks